S07.E02: The Happiest Place on Earth

[Athena]

Quote

Claire makes a startling discovery about Roger and Brianna’s newborn daughter. A familiar face returns to the Ridge with explosive consequences.

Reminder: The is the book talk thread. This may include spoilers for ALL the books. If you wish to remain unspoiled for any of the books, please leave now and head to the No Book Talk episode thread.

[Quickbeam]

The grunt you hear is the strain of good actors trying to carry Sophie. 
 

The Jamie/Lord John scenes were wonderful.

Edited June 23, 2023 by Quickbeam
Typo

[bluestocking]

47 minutes ago, Quickbeam said:

The grunt you hear is the strain of good actors trying to carry Sophie. 
 

The Jamie/Lord John scenes were wonderful.

At least I wasn't distracted by Sophie's non-matching eyebrows this episode.  She was almost OK in her farewell to Jaime.  But I'm not sad that the Mackenzies will be gone from the Ridge for a while.  Maybe now we'll get a bit more focus on Ian.  I thnk there was a brief sighting of Rollo????

A bit surprised there was no shown resolution of Jamie's attack on Brown.  Are we just supposed to assume he killed him and got rid of the body somehow?  Speaking of getting rid of the body, who was the old lady who helped bury Alan?  That actor was excellent in making you believe Alan's mania, imo.

 

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, bluestocking said:

A bit surprised there was no shown resolution of Jamie's attack on Brown.

I was coming in to ask if we learned whether Jamie just beat the shite out o' him or kilt him. Guess we'll learn later in the season.

So they're really condensing the buiks. I remember Bree's daughter living in the past for at least a year before they went back to their present.

And did Allan confess to being the one to impregnate and kill his half-sister? Or not?

[sas616]

32 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

So they're really condensing the buiks. I remember Bree's daughter living in the past for at least a year before they went back to their present.

And did Allan confess to being the one to impregnate and kill his half-sister? Or not?

Thanks for posting this.   It's been a while since I read the book, but I was sure she was not an infant when they traveled back.   I thought she was around 4.   And yes, Alan did confess.  There was a flash back showing him having sex with Malva.  He also admitted it was his idea to blame it on Jamie.

I thought this episode was wonderful.   So emotional.   Must have cried through 80% of it.  

 

[SassAndSnacks]

1 hour ago, Quickbeam said:

The grunt you hear is the strain of good actors trying to carry Sophie. 

Amen.  Watching her try to be Bree, makes me appreciate Buik Bree, so well done, Sophie...I guess.

26 minutes ago, bluestocking said:

She was almost OK in her farewell to Jaime.

But awful with William and Lord John.  That buik moment is so poignant to me.  Here's this only-child who just met her sibling, and she was so excited with heart and mind racing a mile a minute. And this was all "Oh, hey."  And then walking away with Lord John, gah, no good.  

29 minutes ago, bluestocking said:

A bit surprised there was no shown resolution of Jamie's attack on Brown.

Me too!  I was surprised to dive in with Allan, and then the whole cold open was wrapping up that storyline.  I'm guessing the Browns show up again.  I kinda wanted to see Jamie shoot him, personally.  

24 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And did Allan confess to being the one to impregnate and kill his half-sister?

That was my take because during his monologue they showed her throat being sliced.  I don't think he flat-out said he did it, but it was heavily implied to the point of irrefutable.  Was REALLY surprised they kept the ENTIRE monologue in, right down to one very graphic anatomical description.  The look on Claire's face was perfection.  

 

Overall, I thought this was really well done, Sophie aside.  Cait was a complete force this episode, from discovering Mandy's illness (my heart!), to saying her goodbyes, sobbing in bed with Jamie, and then the explosive ending.  There was so much happening, but it felt relatively seamless.  

I could have done with a few more moments of breathing room between all of the emotional bits, and I wanted more out of the William reveal.  I was a little disappointed by the interactions between Jem and Mandy.  I wish that would have been heavier.  I love their relationship and how they sense each other.  I think that was probably impossible to convey at this point because Jem has been made younger than he was in the Buik.

I found myself being really choked up through many of the scenes.  Jamie with Mandy in the stable was heartbreaking.  The firefly scene was visually lovely, even if it was unbelievable and the actors weren't well matched skill-wise.  One of my favorite lines of the books - "For your sake, I will continue, though for mine alone, I would not" - was so beautifully delivered.   

[cardigirl]

I enjoy Sophie's interpretation of Bree. I'm not familiar at all with the book Bree, so have no expectations of how the character should be, but I'm as interested in her and Roger's story as any of the other characters. 

I loved how Bree tried to reassure Lord John that William would always love him, even if he discovers his true parentage. It's certainly true in Bree's case that there was her daddy (Frank) and her da (Jamie), and she has been able to love both. 

I thought the firefly scene was lovely, even though there were far too many fireflies, lol. And of course, the scene with all of them figuring out what needed to be done for Mandy. I agree that Claire's response to Mandy's heart problem was well done.  

Can't wait for next week's episode. 

[Night Cheese]

Did Bree really say that she and her parents went to Disneyland every year? I'm sure they lived comfortably, but to annually fly 3000 miles for a vacation in the late 50s/early 60s seems...unlikely. 

[SassAndSnacks]

PS - Born and raised in Appalachia and those were the largest "fireflies" I've ever seen.  

PPS - After the MacKenzies awoke from traveling through the stones, the shot of Jem's airplane in the sky with the real airplane emerging from behind it made me gasp.  This show...

[Eureka]

I don’t remember if I said this last week or not, but I am not a fan of Sinead’s rendition of the theme song.

[nodorothyparker]

I know I've read that the firefly population has dropped significantly with increased light pollution. The show did a nice job of recreating and repurposing a really lovely scene I've always liked from the books where a more mature Bree is able to acknowledge there's different kinds of magic in the world and what having Jamie and the family on the Ridge give her kids is every bit as magic as manufactured magic like Disneyland so I'm willing to just go with it.

So other than a bit of cleanup they'll probably get to next week, we're through book 6 now. With the nonchalant way the show has always handled the big William is Jamie's kid secret with everyone making a point of telling each other about it every five minutes, I guess this was about as good as it was going to get. Sophie is always going to be the weakest link of the cast but she showed again this episode the lovely easy chemistry she has with Sam, which I'm forever going to be convinced is why she's in this role in the first place.  And she was serviceable enough in reassuring Lord John about his place as William's other father.

I promise I'll really be okay with it if the show just skips over the entire failed life in the early '80s story. A quick voiceover that this and then this happened and zoom we're back is fine. The books never really manage to do anything interesting with it and it makes for easy skip over material.

Jamie was killing me through so much of this, trying to stoically stay chin up in seeing all his ties fall away one by one and mulling that he's the only one in the family who can't relocate to a different time of indoor toilets and not having to play with whatever nutbag is stalking the family this particular week. Yeah, Wendigo Donner is probably never going to be invited over for tea given the circumstances, but did it even occur to him to not come charging in acting like one of the criminal thugs he insists he just couldn't do anything about? There's enough natural curiosity between all the various time travelers that had he showed up properly contrite and "look you understand how maddening this all is" and they probably would have at least begrudgingly tried to help, even if just to get him to go away.

The Sinead O'Connor version of the theme really feels like it should have been a one-time thing.

[ruby24]

Mandy was definitely an infant in the book when Claire discovered her heart condition. It was pretty soon after she was born.

I think people just remember Mandy being older because the next time we see her she's a toddler and remains 3-5 years old from then on. I think there's a gap of a few years, at least involving Roger and Bree, where they're living in the 80's and we just don't see them at all. We catch up with them later on in Scotland after they've already been in the present for a while. I wonder if they'll do that on the show too.

[Spartan Girl]

Okay, Bree trying explain Disneyland and Mickey Mouse to Jamie was priceless.

Well, it sucks that the family to break up. But Roger and Bree did what they had to do. Modern medicine is why I’d never stay in the past. And at least hopefully Jemmy and Amanda will get to meet Mickey!

[Eureka]

7 hours ago, bluestocking said:

At least I wasn't distracted by Sophie's non-matching eyebrows this episode.  She was almost OK in her farewell to Jaime.  But I'm not sad that the Mackenzies will be gone from the Ridge for a while.  Maybe now we'll get a bit more focus on Ian.  I thnk there was a brief sighting of Rollo????

A bit surprised there was no shown resolution of Jamie's attack on Brown.  Are we just supposed to assume he killed him and got rid of the body somehow?  Speaking of getting rid of the body, who was the old lady who helped bury Alan?  That actor was excellent in making you believe Alan's mania, imo.

 

 

I think that was Mrs. Bug, wasn’t it? I liked this episode a lot. Funny thing I was just telling my husband tonight about how Bree and Roger went back to the late 70s/early 80s and about Jamie’s dream with electric light and both those things showed up in today’s episode.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Eureka

[Eureka]

4 hours ago, Night Cheese said:

Did Bree really say that she and her parents went to Disneyland every year? I'm sure they lived comfortably, but to annually fly 3000 miles for a vacation in the late 50s/early 60s seems...unlikely. 

I wondered the same thing.

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Okay, Bree trying explain Disneyland and Mickey Mouse to Jamie was priceless.

Well, it sucks that the family to break up. But Roger and Bree did what they had to do. Modern medicine is why I’d never stay in the past. And at least hopefully Jemmy and Amanda will get to meet Mickey!

I believe before they come back to the past, Bree takes them to Disneyland, doesn’t she? It’s been a while since I read that book.

[sas616]

2 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Mandy was definitely an infant in the book when Claire discovered her heart condition. It was pretty soon after she was born.

I think people just remember Mandy being older because the next time we see her she's a toddler and remains 3-5 years old from then on. I think there's a gap of a few years, at least involving Roger and Bree, where they're living in the 80's and we just don't see them at all. We catch up with them later on in Scotland after they've already been in the present for a while. I wonder if they'll do that on the show too.

I do remember Claire discovered Mandy's heart condition not long after she was born.   I didn't think the decision to go back was made until she was older and her symptoms got worse.  I keep thinking by the time they went back, Mandy knew her grandparents.    But I could have made all that up in my mind.  

[Moxie Cat]

19 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And did Allan confess to being the one to impregnate and kill his half-sister? Or not?

He told Claire that she slept with Ian and the guy in the church because they both knew that she was already carrying Allan's baby, and she was trying to find another guy to take responsibility. So yes, he confessed to impregnating her for sure. I'd have to see the scene again, but I thought in the dialogue it was very clear to Claire (and Ian) that he had killed her as well (plus we saw the flashback). Didn't Claire even tell him that his father took the blame for him?

Here's what I don't understand: wasn't Malva working a love charm to get Jamie to fall in love with her? She was also fascinated by watching Jamie and Claire in the barn. Was all that because of her brother's plan or because she actually had a thing for Jamie?

Very sad that she was coming to confess to Claire when Allan killed her (and that Claire had already knocked herself out and wouldn't have been able to answer the door anyway). 

Ah well - I'm not sorry to see the Christie saga end.

I'm also predicting now that Fergus's hand is the reason for the obit misprint, and it will be different from the book.

16 hours ago, Night Cheese said:

Did Bree really say that she and her parents went to Disneyland every year? I'm sure they lived comfortably, but to annually fly 3000 miles for a vacation in the late 50s/early 60s seems...unlikely.

Yeah, I call foul on that line. Not sure why the writers had to say it was "every year" when "we only went twice, but I loved it" would have gotten the point across, and been way more believable.

Finally: was anyone else shouting at the screen: "Use the tiny extra gem Jamie has! Keep Lord John's beautiful sapphire!" (I mean, assuming they did get the gem back - Claire throwing it out the window was very poetic but also kinda dumb.)

Edited June 24, 2023 by Moxie Cat

[nodorothyparker]

IIRC, book Bree does make it sound like the Disneyland trip was THE yearly family vacation. Like it was the one and only time each year Frank and Clair weren't mostly living separate lives. Disneyland opened in 1955 when Bree would have been around 7. Assuming she outgrew it in her teens, by which time the books make it sound like Frank was waiting it out until Bree was old enough he could leave and take her back to England with him, that might have only been maybe six or eight trips. I don't really care that much either way, but it also doesn't sound that farfetched to me that this might have been the one big yearly splurge for a successful surgeon and her Harvard professor/author husband for the lone child that was holding them together.

Allan confesses that he was the father and Malva was sleeping with other guys to provide plausible alternative daddy candidates. This made Allen jealous to the point that they hatched the name Jamie as the daddy plot with the hope that Jamie would do what a lot of "wealthy" men of the time would have done and settle a good wad of cash on her to make her go away quietly so they could leave and start over somewhere else, not realizing that Jamie was only land rich and cash poor. Malva's true motivations are always kind of muddy for me as we're only hearing about them secondhand from people who have their own agendas. Did she really hope if Claire died Jamie might take the path of least resistance and settle for the young woman who was claiming to be his mistress anyway to quell the growing scandal? Did she even want a new life somewhere with the half brother who by his own admission had been molesting her since she was very young and their incest baby if Jamie had offered them money to go away? Who knows as Allan slashed her throat before she could confess any of this mess to Claire.

[andidante]

15 hours ago, Eureka said:

I don’t remember if I said this last week or not, but I am not a fan of Sinead’s rendition of the theme song.

I fast forward that part now. I really don't like it!

[iMonrey]

18 hours ago, Night Cheese said:

Did Bree really say that she and her parents went to Disneyland every year? I'm sure they lived comfortably, but to annually fly 3000 miles for a vacation in the late 50s/early 60s seems...unlikely. 

She did a terrible job explaining what Disneyland is too! Don't start with the giant mouse, just explain it's an amusement park with rides and shows. I'm sure Jamie can grasp the concept.

How/when did Bree find out that William is Jamie's son? I can't remember. John said only five people knew, is that himself, Jamie, Claire, Bree and . . . Roger maybe?

I thought the long goodbyes at the stones were tedious. I'd have been much more apprehensive that this whole thing wouldn't even work since it didn't the last time they tried. The whole thing with the stones is just way too ambiguous, I'd be worried I'd wind up in prehistoric times or flung 3000 years into the future. I have no idea why they just assume the stones will take them to the year they need.

[ch1]

43 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

How/when did Bree find out that William is Jamie's son? I can't remember. John said only five people knew, is that himself, Jamie, Claire, Bree and . . . Roger maybe?

Jaime told Bree about William in season 5 right before she was supposed to go to her time.

I think 2 of the people LJ was referring to were Geneva and Isobel since he said 2 took the secret to the grave.  

[Moxie Cat]

54 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

John said only five people knew, is that himself, Jamie, Claire, Bree and . . . Roger maybe?

If Lord John means that the two (deceased) sisters knew, he means that the three remaining are himself, Jamie, and Claire...but he knows Bree also knows, so that's four people alive who know. (Plus Murtagh knew, which he didn't realize.) But didn't Lady Dunsany (William's grandmother) know also, or at least suspect? I thought his math was confusing - I was trying to figure it out too.

[ruby24]

The goodbyes at the stones were too long and drawn out, especially because we already saw a long scene between Bree and Jamie just before that. Unless we really aren't going to have Roger and Bree come back to the past before the series ends. Which is possible, but I don't know how much they're going to try to cram in before the end of Season 8. All of Book 9 too? If so, then Roger and Bree would have to show back up early next season, probably.

I wonder what they got to by the end of this current season (including the second half that we're probably not getting until next year). They said they're going to start jumping ahead and including things from all the remaining books now, so maybe we'll get to it. 

I don't remember a lot of Book 7 to be honest. My favorite part is the Claire/Lord John affair, and they HAVE to include that, so I'm hoping we get to that pretty early. I seem to remember a lot of Book 7 was following William around aimlessly, and frankly, a lot of that can be skipped.

[Quickbeam]

Re: Mandy’s heart condition….a PDA or patent ductus arteriosus is a closed heart defect of a fetal duct. It should close at birth or soon after but doesn’t. Prior to 1950, a severe PDA was pretty much a death sentence by age 10 or so. It is easy to detect by auscultation because the open duct makes a whooshing sound. 
 

Surgery was pioneered in the 1950s which required a thoracotomy, creating an opening in the side of the body to access the duct to legate it. Today PDAs can be closed with medication in some cases or a far less invade surgery. 
 

I had PDA surgery in 1958 and have the 2 foot scar to show for it. 

[Scarlett45]

On 6/23/2023 at 2:45 PM, cardigirl said:

I thought the firefly scene was lovely, even though there were far too many fireflies, lol. And of course, the scene with all of them figuring out what needed to be done for Mandy. I agree that Claire's response to Mandy's heart problem was well done. 

I said that to my Mom “there are so many fireflies!” I assume that in the past there were more per square mile perhaps. 

 

On 6/24/2023 at 9:22 AM, nodorothyparker said:

IIRC, book Bree does make it sound like the Disneyland trip was THE yearly family vacation. Like it was the one and only time each year Frank and Clair weren't mostly living separate lives. Disneyland opened in 1955 when Bree would have been around 7. Assuming she outgrew it in her teens, by which time the books make it sound like Frank was waiting it out until Bree was old enough he could leave and take her back to England with him, that might have only been maybe six or eight trips. I don't really care that much either way, but it also doesn't sound that farfetched to me that this might have been the one big yearly splurge for a successful surgeon and her Harvard professor/author husband for the lone child that was holding them together.

My Mother went to Disneyland once as a small child (she’s been again as an adult many times we are a big Disney theme park family- she’s born the same year as Bre). If my grandfather who only had a middle school education, worked 6 days a week, took two weeks off from work to drive his wife and only child to see Disneyland, going by the The Negro Motorist Greenbook to make sure they stopped in safe places and avoided sundown towns, I fully believe Claire and Frank took Bre every year. Especially with Claire being a surgeon (having the income) and Frank being off in the summers. I think it’s cool that my mom and Bre are the same age- we watch this together during our Sunday night line up, and it makes Bre relatable. 

On 6/24/2023 at 8:33 AM, Moxie Cat said:

Here's what I don't understand: wasn't Malva working a love charm to get Jamie to fall in love with her? She was also fascinated by watching Jamie and Claire in the barn. Was all that because of her brother's plan or because she actually had a thing for Jamie?

I believe he did have a thing for Jamie (he’s hot) but she did really admire Claire. The plan would’ve been more likely to work if Jamie actually had sex with her, he would’ve given her the money she asked etc. But I think Malva wanted to get away from Alan as soon as possible and anyway would’ve worked (marriage to another man, Money from Jamie etc). Alan was such a POS. 

[Scarlett45]

On 6/24/2023 at 11:57 AM, Moxie Cat said:

If Lord John means that the two (deceased) sisters knew, he means that the three remaining are himself, Jamie, and Claire...but he knows Bree also knows, so that's four people alive who know. (Plus Murtagh knew, which he didn't realize.) But didn't Lady Dunsany (William's grandmother) know also, or at least suspect? I thought his math was confusing - I was trying to figure it out too.

Lord John being who he is, I doubt he’s thinking of Bre knowing as he’s talking to her. She’s a woman after all. 
 

He probably meant the two sisters, he, Jamie and Lady Dunsany as the original “knowing group”, committed to keeping it a secret; not counting that Jamie told Claire & Bre later. 

On 6/24/2023 at 11:53 AM, ch1 said:

I think 2 of the people LJ was referring to were Geneva and Isobel since he said 2 took the secret to the grave.  

Yes I agree. 

[Scarlett45]

On 6/24/2023 at 9:22 AM, nodorothyparker said:

Did she even want a new life somewhere with the half brother who by his own admission had been molesting her since she was very young and their incest baby if Jamie had offered them money to go away? Who knows as Allan slashed her throat before she could confess any of this mess to Claire.

I don’t believe she would’ve gone away with Allan. It’s clear from the flash back that he’s raping her and she’s dead inside trying to survive it. And that’s from ALAN’s perspective. She wanted to get far away from him, and the man she assumed was her father was atrocious to her as well. (I also believe their aunt was awful to them and her rapey brother was probably the only person to show her kindness).
 

I think she thought Jamie was hot (he is!) and probably fantasized at what a life with him would be like, yet she loved and admired Claire. Malva was messed up but who could blame her with the life she had. 

Im still mad at Tom Christie, yeah he saved Claire (good) and took the blame for his evil rapist son but he was awful to Malva for no reason, she wasn’t a witch, and who’s to know if her conception was consensual or if his brother assualted (or even coerced) Malva’s Mom. Of course that has nothing to do with if Malva deserved to die or not, but Tom was a dick, just not as messed up as his son. 

[aemom]

On 6/24/2023 at 9:33 AM, Moxie Cat said:

I'm also predicting now that Fergus's hand is the reason for the obit misprint, and it will be different from the book.

They addressed that in the book.

It was something about the printer missing a letter or something to put in the press, so they put a different month figuring "who really cares." It was not Fergus who printed that obituary but some other random printer. 

[Lily H]

On 6/23/2023 at 7:29 PM, SassAndSnacks said:

PS - Born and raised in Appalachia and those were the largest "fireflies" I've ever seen.

I was thinking the same thing! They were gigantic. I often see fireflies outside my windows at night and they're much, much smaller. Quite tiny, in fact.

[Haleth]

Wow, a lot happened!  The show is moving quickly.  Is that how the fire occurred in the book?  For some reason I have no memory of that, only that it there was something about the Bugs and the Scottish gold.  All these years I've been blaming the Bugs for the fire.  Heh.

It seems like the writers are hurrying to get all the Ridge stuff out of the way so they can plunge Jamie and Claire into the war stuff.  Just goes to show how much filler there is in those 800 page books.

Oh, right!  Last week we had the cliffhanger of Jamie confronting Brown.  So what happened?

On 6/23/2023 at 7:49 PM, Eureka said:

I don’t remember if I said this last week or not, but I am not a fan of Sinead’s rendition of the theme song.

I didn't realize that was Sinead.  It's terrible.  I'll be fast forwarding from now on.

On 6/23/2023 at 1:37 PM, bluestocking said:

At least I wasn't distracted by Sophie's non-matching eyebrows this episode. 

Omigosh, I was.  Biggest misstep of this show was casting her.  And her eyebrows.

On 6/23/2023 at 1:37 PM, bluestocking said:

who was the old lady who helped bury Alan?

That was Mrs Bug, the housekeeper.

[Scarlett45]

I like Mrs Bug. She was right, Alan was no good. 

[SassAndSnacks]

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

Is that how the fire occurred in the book?

Yes - Donner and his pack show up for gemstones, but in the Buik, it is Ian that actually ignites the fire.  I'm glad they changed that here. 

[MrsR]

Disneyland wasn't the expensive extravaganza back in the 60's as it is now. It was still affordable in the early 90's. And it certainly isn't Disneyworld.

[KittyQ]

On 6/24/2023 at 9:57 AM, Moxie Cat said:

If Lord John means that the two (deceased) sisters knew, he means that the three remaining are himself, Jamie, and Claire...but he knows Bree also knows, so that's four people alive who know. (Plus Murtagh knew, which he didn't realize.) But didn't Lady Dunsany (William's grandmother) know also, or at least suspect? I thought his math was confusing - I was trying to figure it out too.

I can't recall offhand the name of the man who Geneva was supposed to marry (other than Lord Ellsmere), but didn't he know or suspect very heavily that William was not his son. He died the day William was born, I thought. Perhaps he is one of the two that knew. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 6/24/2023 at 9:33 AM, Moxie Cat said:

She was also fascinated by watching Jamie and Claire in the barn.

I'd attribute that to her only experience of sex up to that point having been non-consenusal sex with her brother. Same for her questions to Claire about women being supposed to enjoy sex or not.

[Scarlett45]

On 7/15/2023 at 7:22 PM, Noneofyourbusiness said:

I'd attribute that to her only experience of sex up to that point having been non-consenusal sex with her brother. Same for her questions to Claire about women being supposed to enjoy sex or not.

Yeah so did I. I think it was a little bit of both @Moxie Cat.

I mean Jamie is quite handsome (as an understatement) and he was very passionately in love with Claire. I could see Malva 1. Being intrigued by this display of “love making” (when she had been abused and raped for years by her older brother), 2. Being jealous of Claire and wanting to be in her shoes. 
 

Not that her voyuerism (why can’t I spell!) was okay - it wasn’t, but I’m not surprised. Suppose Jamie had wanted to make her his mistress- that’s a better position than being stuck being constantly abused by her brother. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Malva was a vile character and I hate that the show softened her.

[Cdh20]

I think the show does a great job of trying to show all angles to a character in a short amount of time. Every villian except perhaps BJR  has been multifaceted. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

27 minutes ago, Cdh20 said:

I think the show does a great job of trying to show all angles to a character in a short amount of time. Every villian except perhaps BJR  has been multifaceted. 

BJR cared about his younger brother Alexander (and essentially no one else). And he was self aware of how vile he was.

[Cdh20]

34 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

BJR cared about his younger brother Alexander (and essentially no one else). And he was self aware of how vile he was.

He does have self awareness but still YIKES!

 

[SassAndSnacks]

11 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I hate that the show softened her.

I know we're like 10 years on at this point, but I'm still annoyed with how the Show softened Frank, as well.  

[Linderhill]

1 hour ago, SassAndSnacks said:

I know we're like 10 years on at this point, but I'm still annoyed with how the Show softened Frank, as well.  

I think it was mainly Ron D. Moore that ended up a huge Frank fan mostly because of Tobias' performance.  But, I agree, I hate how pro-Frank the show ended up.