S04.E05: Kill List

[TexasGal]

Quote

After being summoned to Norway for a GoJo team-building retreat, Waystar’s old guard grows increasingly concerned over the trip’s true purpose. Later, when Matsson makes a play for ATN, Shiv, Kendall, and Roman consider whether to fight for Logan’s crown jewel.

Airdate: 04.23.2023

[Brian Cronin]

It's amazing how each episode over three and a half seasons can split the sides up in different ways each episode, while making it not seem illogical or pulled out of thin air. I love it.

[dmc]

My take is Roman and Ken effed it and  Shiv is who nailed the deal. She also comprised the list of people staying.  She told Madssen to get advice from Gerri, that Carolina was solid etc.

Edited April 24, 2023 by dmc

[BC4ME]

Am I horrible if I find Matsson attractive? Damn it. Alexander Skarsgard could charm a rattlesnake.

The chemistry between Matsson and Shiv is amazing. 

Edited April 24, 2023 by BC4ME

[Msample]

Shiv forgot to add one more name to the kill list - whatever wardrobe person picked out that half puffy, half Burberry plaid monstrosity she was wearing.

[Francie]

So much to love this episode! What's my personal favorite moment?

Well, there's Roman saying "my dad" and "dad's plan" to the point where I wanted to scream at the television to stop already. Just like Roman was the only one who went on the plane to see their father and, presumably, say goodbye, Roman is the only one who wants to carry out his father's wishes plan. Though Kendall was right, Logan did whatever the hell he wanted to do in the moment. He might have backed out of the deal if he recalculated and liked a different option.  

What Roman really wanted, and needed, was the cathartic lashing out at Matsson. So raw. In a show where so many actors hit the ball out of the park, Kieran hit that one out of the stadium. 

Speaking of raw, what was up with that exchange between Shiv and Tom. Her scuffing up his all-too-white shoes and his slightly violent response. I flinched. 

Poor Hugo with the loaded up plate of food was another highlight. 

And Shiv had advice from which we all surely can benefit: stop sending people our blood. 

But the moment that was the icing on the cake for me? When Frank and Karl were putting on compression socks on the plane. It took me a minute to figure out what the hell they were doing, and when the realization hit? I don't know if I laughed at a drama that hard since Walter White landed that pizza on the top of his garage. 

I do fear Gerri is peaking too soon. 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Francie

[katenm]

Mattson sending blood as gifts was a lovely, albeit somewhat creepy, nod to Alexander Skarsgard's role on True Blood.

[chaifan]

15 hours ago, dmc said:

My take is Roman and Ken effed it and  Shiv is who nailed the deal. She also comprised the list of people staying.  She told Madssen to get advice from Gerri, that Carolina was solid etc.

I'm not sure if Roman and Ken truly fucked it up in the sense that what they said/did would have truly made Matsson walk away from the deal.  I think he's all business and really didn't care what was going on with those two, and also knew they would be asking for more money.  What Matsson did was include in his offer the inclusion of ATM at the same price as originally offered without ATM, and then offered just $5 billion (ha, just! this show is wearing off on me) more, which they all jumped at.  I think $5 billion for ATM was probably a deal.  (Edited to add:  Based on another post down-thread, I think my math is off here, but I'm still not sure Ken and Roman's actions changed Matsson's plans in any significant way.)

But Shiv did some great behind the scenes work.  In addition to having a heavy hand on that kill list, I have to wonder what position she secured for herself.  Not that she needs the job/money, but to show up Roman and Ken for cutting her out of co-COO. I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up COO, or a similar position.

This is what I've been saying throughout the series - everyone sees Shiv as not cut out for business.  But, she's the only one of the three that had a real job outside of Waystar.  And from what it sounded like 1st season, she was good at it.  She gets too easily wrapped up in the family drama shit, but I think she's way smarter than Roman.   I will be very happy if this show ends with Shiv ending up on top.  It's the top of a pile of shit family, but it's still the top.

Also, if she ends up with Matsson, just to fuck with Tom, I'd be cheering for that.

Unless I missed something, was Greg not on the kill list?  Or maybe just too far down for them to get to. 

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by chaifan

[Sailorgirl26]

Well look at Shiv being the sniper from the side! Did not see her and Mattson teaming up but I have to say, I don't hate it! 

It's been what--36 hours since they agreed to keep working together and they're already working against each other.

I kept waiting for one of them to say that "it doesn't matter what dad would do, it's ours now," but they are just so damaged that Logan remains in control from beyond the grave. 

At least Karl had the good sense to realize that being on the kill list still represents a massive severance/golden parachute. The others getting chopped are still going to walk away wealthier than anyone can imagine and can go on to their next corporate gig without so much as a blink of an eye. 

I wish just one of these fucktards would sit back and realize that they have more money than they'll ever be able to spend so just say fuck it and walk away from the bullshit and the stress and go run a tiki bar on some Polynesian island and be rich and happy and stress-free. Just one of them. 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Sailorgirl26

[chaifan]

4 minutes ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

I wish just one of these fucktards would sit back and realize that they have more money than they'll ever be able to spend so just say fuck it and walk away from the bullshit and the stress and go run a tiki bar on some Polynesian island and be rich and happy and stress-free. Just one of them. 

I made a similar comment on this season's first episode (I think).  I just don't see how or why Roman would be sticking around with all this corporate buyout BS going on.  I thought it would have been great for him to say, hey, I'm done with all of this.  I'm going to go sit on a beach in Bali.  Send me that $10 billion check when the sale goes through. 

[thuganomics85]

Man, for this show/family, Kendall and Roman jokingly (?) asking Shiv if she wanted them to kill Tom (fire him or kill him, kill him?  Couldn't tell!) was actually kind of sweet.  Supportive, protective brothers!  Kind of.  Added bonus was that Tom was in the next room and clearly overheard everything.  Oh, Tom!

Seeing Lukas again and watching him interact with the Roys really kind of highlights to me that while the Roys are truly, truly messed up and even awful people in a lot of ways, Lukas is just something else.  The Roy clan; even Logan; might be despicable but I think at least have emotions, feelings, and, hell, a form of humanity: even at their worst.  But Lukas?  He's a straight-up sociopath, who I think really is capable of anything.  I mean, sure, I can see the Roy kids considering killing someone: maybe even going through with it.  But they'd at least have overlong and lively discussions, weight the pros and cons, and maybe even feel a form of guilt about it (sure, it might be only a "Well, that's a bummer" feel, but it sort of counts.)  But Lukas strikes me as a guy who wouldn't hesitated to murder someone on the spot, if it would benefit is bottom line.  Dude gives me the creeps and yet still strangely charming at times.  Alexander Skarsgard is spot-on here.

Not too surprised that Kendall would end up wanting to kill the deal because he really does seem to like the power he has as CEO.  Equally unsurprised that Roman went along with it and, for what it's worth, it was satisfying to hear him give Lukas a piece of his mind (even though I doubt it had any effect on him.)  But it certainly looks like Shiv's big meeting with Lukas played a part in him not backing down and still going through with it.  Shiv is definitely showing that when she has her back against the wall, she can be a killer when the time calls for it.  Curious to see what's in store for her (and what else might be going on with her and Lukas.)

I would say that Tom was the most embarrassing person at the retreat, but I still think Hugo might have him beat, which is kind of impressive.  Speaking of which, it's impressive how Greg seems to have almost every single person there want him to just shut up and fuck right off.  That takes talent!

Sounds like Connor was on funeral/embalming duty for Logan.  Once again, the show somehow managed to make that both darkly funny but also kind of sad in some ways.  He really is on his own little world compared to everyone else.

So, Lukas (and Shiv's?) kill list/fired list consist of the likes of Frank and Karl (the latter being quite happy about it), but Gerri, Karolina, and even Tom are spared.  Hmm...

Noticed Mencken's name was dropped a lot here, so I imagine he'll be crashing the party soon.

Great scenery here.  Shooting on location has its perks!

[Sailorgirl26]

9 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I made a similar comment on this season's first episode (I think).  I just don't see how or why Roman would be sticking around with all this corporate buyout BS going on.  I thought it would have been great for him to say, hey, I'm done with all of this.  I'm going to go sit on a beach in Bali.  Send me that $10 billion check when the sale goes through. 

I'm not even talking about the siblings--at least they have a family tie to the whole mess that somewhat justifies them wanting to stay in, but the Old Guard on the kill list? Join Karl on that golden parachute ride outta there and live it up on that big fat payout check! 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Sailorgirl26

[nb360]

 

45 minutes ago, Francie said:

Poor Hugo with the loaded up plate of food was another highlight. 

Fav lines tonight:

Hugo: “I metabolize fast because I’m dynamic.”

 

Greg: "The Quad Squad? The Roy Patrol, the Ol Team, Da Family?

            Shiv: "Da f***?"

 

Karl: "Hanging in the window like Peking duck."

 

[EtheltoTillie]

Was Shiv pretending to drink and take drugs?  I couldn’t tell. 

[txhorns79]

57 minutes ago, chaifan said:

In addition to having a heavy hand on that kill list, I have to wonder what position she secured for herself.  Not that she needs the job/money, but to show up Roman and Ken for cutting her out of co-COO. I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up COO, or a similar position.

Honestly, she's going to be incredibly rich following the deal.  Why would she want to work as COO for Lukas?  At best, he seems like he'd be an extremely toxic boss, and it wouldn't really show up Roman or Ken to work for him.     

[Irlandesa]

28 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Was Shiv pretending to drink and take drugs?  I couldn’t tell. 

I don't know about drinking.  She might have had a real drink.  I do think she carefully avoided taking the drugs.  She took what Mattson offered, fiddled with it, and then put it down again.

I'd be upset if I were Alan Ruck and missed out on this trip. Of all the places they've been, this is the most gorgeous trip. I actually looked up the hotel.

[Artsda]

I don't know if I liked Shiv behind the scenes lying to her brothers about what she knows good. If they're getting 50-50 stock, her sitting on a potential sexual harrassment cancellation can cause their value to tank. She covered that up, then took a picture of her brothers for him. All because he asked?  

Trying to turn ATN into BNN or CNN won't work. I agree with Kendall. Shiv doesn't care about the money in stocks they'd lose? 

Roman wasn't wrong with everything he said on the mountain.  Especially the part where their father just died this could have waited a week to bury the man.  

When they were making fun and mocking Greg, it wasn't Tom who stood up for him and family it was Kendall. 

Best scene for me was gondola with Connor wanting full control over the funeral and Kendall taking the clipboard and writing moron. I laughed out loud. Then Roman's reaction to Kendall saying take a picture. Lol that scene with the 4 of them was great. 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Artsda

[lucindabelle]

I think the clue that shiv was really the one who sealed the deal was when mattsin said she reminded him of her father. In a show where everyone seem to be fighting to have the legacy of who is the most like dad she wasn’t trying and it turned out she really was.

Your earlobes are chewy and meaty? 
Kudos to whoever wrote that line because it was wonderfully bizarre. I couldn’t do it if I tried.

[nb360]

25 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I'd be upset if I were Alan Ruck and missed out on this trip. Of all the places they've been, this is the most gorgeous trip. I actually looked up the hotel.

Could you post a link?

[Irlandesa]

2 minutes ago, nb360 said:

Could you post a link?

Here you go.

[Verovee]

I don’t know if Mattsen really respected Shiv or is playing the same game her father did. He’s pretending to use her as an ally when he potentially could just be using her for his own ends and to get info on the brothers. So far she hasn’t said anything harmful but dynamics are in constant flux with these ppl. And that blood story could be BS. 

[Francie]

1 hour ago, nb360 said:

 

Fav lines tonight:

Hugo: “I metabolize fast because I’m dynamic.”

 

Greg: "The Quad Squad? The Roy Patrol, the Ol Team, Da Family?

            Shiv: "Da f***?"

 

Karl: "Hanging in the window like Peking duck."

 

Those lines were perfection. The most cutting line, although it doesn't play on paper as devastatingly as it was delivered:

"You're a tribute band." 

Imagine getting that insult leveled at you less than a week after the genuine article -- the band to which you are the imitation -- tells you, "You're not serious people." 

The coldest and most insulting action though:

Motherf-ing Marcia putting Logan into a kilt, when she knows how much he tried to put his childhood behind him. She's just full of payback.

[SHD]

2 hours ago, chaifan said:

Unless I missed something, was Greg not on the kill list?  Or maybe just too far down for them to get to

I think no one cared enough to ask about him - ha!

Hugo: We’re snakes on a plane.

[realityplease]

The sibs can't just go & sit out on some beach in Bali.  They still have the $10 billion Pierce deal to close, no?  Mattson got Waystar & ATN, but they still need to face the deal they made with the Pierce matriarch.

[Brian Cronin]

3 hours ago, chaifan said:

What Matsson did was include in his offer the inclusion of ATM at the same price as originally offered without ATM, and then offered just $5 billion (ha, just! this show is wearing off on me) more, which they all jumped at.  I think $5 billion for ATM was probably a deal. 

No, Matsson already went well over asking price to get ATN included in the deal. They started at 144 a share, and anything about 144 a share would be a win. He offered 187 a share WITH ATN,  and then upped it to 192 a share at the end. So monetarily, this is a very good deal. It just isn't a good deal if you're Kendall and you don't want to sell period. 

40 minutes ago, realityplease said:

The sibs can't just go & sit out on some beach in Bali.  They still have the $10 billion Pierce deal to close, no?  Mattson got Waystar & ATN, but they still need to face the deal they made with the Pierce matriarch.

The Pierce deal was contingent on this deal closing, so if this deal doesn't close, that deal doesn't happen. 

[realityplease]

2 hours ago, Verovee said:

I don’t know if Mattsen really respected Shiv or is playing the same game her father did. He’s pretending to use her as an ally when he potentially could just be using her for his own ends and to get info on the brothers. So far she hasn’t said anything harmful but dynamics are in constant flux with these ppl. And that blood story could be BS. 

I agree. I was pretty much going along with Mattson & Shiv bonding as equals (his interest in the state of her marriage, seeking advice about his situation with someone on his Comm staff) but when he complimented her on being like Logan, & she preened instead of giving a snappy response, it dawned on me:  He's playing her! 

For good reason: he got info on who to put on the kill list, got her to send a pic of the brothers' reaction to the deal, fed her information about a potentially serious harassment issue between himself & his direct report, that Shiv would be bound to reveal to the board but likely won't - & could be trouble for her if later uncovered that she knew & didn't reveal it before the sale closed. (Shiv well knowing about the past govt. inquiry into Waystar's harrassment issues to allow the company to be bought by someone with issues? Not good.)

Nothing Mattson did wasn't calculated.  Played Shiv. Got Roman to reveal a motive for backing out. Roman recognized he went too far & tried to walk it back immediately - said he'd deny saying it.  But he said it & they needed Mattson to back out, not them, to avoid securities issues. 

Thought maybe the sibs could pull it out in Logan's absence.  They can't.  Everything points to why they aren't half what Logan was - lacking reputation, ability, & killer instinct.  Ken wanted to blow up the deal, keep the company & run the whole show - but he's really not capable of running the whole shebang.  Roman's too hinged on doing what Logan would have done instead of becoming his own man.  Together, they brought in the deal & squeezed Mattson for more - but did they really? The brothers sure don't feel good about it because it happened around them & despite what they did.  Shiv feels good about it now - but will she still as things play out?  Remains to be seen.  Sure keeps me watching.

34 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

The Pierce deal was contingent on this deal closing, so if this deal doesn't close, that deal doesn't happen. 

Yes, but if it does (sure, a lot can happen, but right now it's a go) they're stuck with the over-priced Pierce deal.  No playing on the beach quite yet. 

Edited April 24, 2023 by realityplease

[millennium]

4 hours ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

I wish just one of these fucktards would sit back and realize that they have more money than they'll ever be able to spend so just say fuck it and walk away from the bullshit and the stress and go run a tiki bar on some Polynesian island and be rich and happy and stress-free. Just one of them. 

Isn't it amazing that you never hear about anyone doing just that?  Never in the news do you see a report that multi-millionaire So-and-So is suddenly stepping down as CEO to retire to Margaritaville.   It's like God cursed these people with the determination and intelligence to make that kind of money, but not the good sense to know how to really enjoy it.

[realityplease]

30 minutes ago, millennium said:

Isn't it amazing that you never hear about anyone doing just that?  Never in the news do you see a report that multi-millionaire So-and-So is suddenly stepping down as CEO to retire to Margaritaville.   It's like God cursed these people with the determination and intelligence to make that kind of money, but not the good sense to know how to really enjoy it.

Different strokes for different folks.  Some like the "excitement" of chasing & making the deal, having underlings as well as captains of industry & politicians kow-tow to them, grand homes in different locales, yachts & private jets at their beck & call - they'd be bored to death after a day or two on the beach.  

Once you have money at that level, earning more money isn't going to do anything more for them - they already can buy whatever they want.  But the thrill of doing the deal & acquiring power - the acquiring of these things sometimes meaning more than using them - is what drives them.  They can already buy & do whatever they want for as long as they want.  It's us poor schlubs with a two-week vacation that dream of retirement in Margaritaville. 

[kathe5133]

I am not at the level of business where I'm privy to the details of mergers and acquisitions, but I seriously doubt anyone behaves as everyone does on this show.  I'll ignore it because it's entertainment, but truly this is just not how it's done.

[Dminches]

6 hours ago, Verovee said:

I don’t know if Mattsen really respected Shiv or is playing the same game her father did. He’s pretending to use her as an ally when he potentially could just be using her for his own ends and to get info on the brothers. So far she hasn’t said anything harmful but dynamics are in constant flux with these ppl. And that blood story could be BS. 

Either way, that encounter with Shiv may have cost him almost $20B so it doesn't seem as though he gained any advantage by schmoozing with her.

 

7 hours ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

I wish just one of these fucktards would sit back and realize that they have more money than they'll ever be able to spend so just say fuck it and walk away from the bullshit and the stress and go run a tiki bar on some Polynesian island and be rich and happy and stress-free. Just one of them. 

It is not about the money, it is about the power and control. Money isn't the same to these people as it is to "normal" people since they have so much of it and will never run out.  In the case of the Roys, they just want to be like Daddy and rule the empire.

 

[dmc]

What do we make of Shiv’s honest answer to Madssen about the state of her relationship with Tom?

[Lassus]

9 hours ago, chaifan said:

Unless I missed something, was Greg not on the kill list?  Or maybe just too far down for them to get to. 

He's more the definition of failing upward middle management.  He's not on the kill list because no one cares he's even there.

[Lassus]

5 hours ago, realityplease said:

Nothing Mattson did wasn't calculated.  Played Shiv. Got Roman to reveal a motive for backing out. Roman recognized he went too far & tried to walk it back immediately - said he'd deny saying it. 

I don't think Mattson is the mastermind supervillain Doctor Doom-like 14th-dimensional chess master here.  Maybe I'm wrong, but the show hasn't convinced me I am, I guess.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Lassus

[Artsda]

26 minutes ago, Lassus said:

He's more the definition of failing upward middle management.  He's not on the kill list because no one cares he's even there.

He wasn't even on the list to be at the event to begin with too. Mattson had no idea who he was.

[Chicago Redshirt]

13 minutes ago, Lassus said:

I don't think Mattson is the mastermind supervillain Doctor Doom-like 14th-dimensional chess master here.  Maybe I'm wrong, but the show hasn't convinced me I am, I guess.

He doesn't have to be a Dr. Doom level mastermind to be obviously better at the corporate Game of Thrones than any of our pretenders to the throne.

Kendall is a superficial thinker with no ability to see more than one or two moves down the line. It seems like every idea he originates is pretty terrible, and he isn't very good at executing on them anyway.

Roman is quick-witted, but can't control his emotions as seen by his outburst at Mattson this episode.

Shiv is probably the best of the siblings at handling the business and politics matters, but has the disadvantage of not having a penis as well as having the least amount of time at Waystar. On top of that, she also fell for Mattson's charm and told him inside info freely. 

Among other things, as things stand, Mattson:

1. was able to get all the Waystar executives to jump at a moment's notice to join him in Norway, even with some still mourning their father

2. get them to agree to a better deal for him that included ATN

3. Assess the execs that he might want to keep after the merger happens (with an assist from Shiv)

4. Smoke out that the CE-bros were trying to tank the deal and neutralize them 

5. either get real advice on what to do about his ex and harassing of her or test Shiv to see how she would respond to a sexual harassment scenario involving him. (Right now I'm leaning toward it being a test. No matter how weird, giving multiple half-liters of blood seems excessive).

6. Lay the groundwork to sleep with Shiv. (One doesn't get someone alone, give drink and drugs to someone in a romantic cabin and ask them what the deal is with their husband as part of idle chatter).

I'd say so far advantage: Mattson.

[Francie]

Regarding the "kill list," I just want to express my gratitude that it was actually revealed at the end and, and not held out for three or more episodes as a tease. It was introduced, teased, and revealed all the same episode. Thank the good writing it was not treated like some sort of "mystery box" item. 

[sugarbaker design]

1 minute ago, Francie said:

Regarding the "kill list," I just want to express my gratitude that it was actually revealed at the end and, and not held out for three or more episodes as a tease. It was introduced, teased, and revealed all the same episode. Thank the good writing it was not treated like some sort of "mystery box" item. 

Kill List was the title of the episode.  I expect good writing from Armstrong & Co, I haven't been disappointed yet.

[Francie]

1 hour ago, dmc said:

What do we make of Shiv’s honest answer to Madssen about the state of her relationship with Tom?

Sadly, she doesn't have anyone else she feels she can confide in. And, unfortunately for her, she trusted Matsson too quickly. I don't know how smart Matsson is, but I do know if he finds an opportunity to use that information to his advantage, he will. 

[ahpny]

9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I'd be upset if I were Alan Ruck and missed out on this trip. Of all the places they've been, this is the most gorgeous trip. I actually looked up the hotel

There's a reason why shows ostensibly taking place in, or being about people from, Denmark and Sweden nevertheless use Norway for location. While both Denmark and Sweden have charm and beauty in abundance, if you want majestic fjords, towering mountains above crystalline lakes and graceful waterfalls, best to go to Norway. It really is that nice.

 

9 hours ago, Artsda said:

When they were making fun and mocking Greg, it wasn't Tom who stood up for him and family it was Kendall.

Greg's status puzzles me. His grandfather - Logan's brother - is apparently still alive. Greg dropped Ewen's name in a prior episode in a typically craven effort to move up the pecking order. I think Ewen still has some leverage in the company through stock ownership or something (unless he sold or gave that to Greenpeace?). Given Logan's death, doesn't Ewen's position potentially improve, and with it, maybe that of Greg? That's never been addressed as far as I recall. Maybe that depends on Logan's will ? Also, Greg's mother is the cousin of the Roy kids, which makes Greg their cousin once removed.

[Lassus]

11 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

2. get them to agree to a better deal for him that included ATN

I don't know that any acquisition of Waystar is a great idea at this point.  Haven't they been playing up for years that the whole place was kind of limping along at this point?

Anyhow, I dunno, I could be reading the whole thing wrong, but I feel like the show has done a lot to bring us INTO the Roy family, and I honestly don't think the creators want them turned into massive losers at this point.  It doesn't feel like having this Nordic sociopath getting the better of them is going to be seen as a victory by anyone, so I just have a very hard time seeing it going there and then dancing on their graves.  Again, maybe I'm just way off.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Lassus

[Lassus]

6 minutes ago, ahpny said:

Greg's status puzzles me. His grandfather - Logan's brother - is apparently still alive. Greg dropped Ewen's name in a prior episode in a typically craven effort to move up the pecking order. I think Ewen still has some leverage in the company through stock ownership or something (unless he sold or gave that to Greenpeace?). Given Logan's death, doesn't Ewen's position potentially improve, and with it, maybe that of Greg? That's never been addressed as far as I recall. Maybe that depends on Logan's will ? Also, Greg's mother is the cousin of the Roy kids, which makes Greg their cousin once removed.

I think the show is brilliant.  I think throughout the series the character of Greg has worked (barely), but THIS SEASON his character's writing has been very, very out of place and clunky, and just, well, bad.  His presence has been the biggest failure of an otherwise exceptional season.

[sugarbaker design]

5 minutes ago, Lassus said:

and I honestly don't think the creators want them turned into massive losers at this point. 

But they are massive losers, they haven't redeemed themselves one bit.  In season 1 episode 1 they were spoiled, entitled, mean wannabes, and that has not changed.  I agree, they are not going to sell to Mattson, they are going to fight it out for Waystar Royco, and they're going to lose to either The Interloper (Tom) or The Fool (Greg).

[Lassus]

1 minute ago, sugarbaker design said:

But they are massive losers, they haven't redeemed themselves one bit. 

Disagree at the very least on Roman so far.

[DobbsFox]

Matsson never sent anyone blood. If he did, he would never admit that to anyone in a position to use that info. against him.

The playbook on the Roy kids has been out for a while, and the headline is "Easily Manipulated." Matsson's had these three clocked since the moment they answered the phone. He's a Logan Roy-level business genius/sociopath and he's going to get whatever he wants out of them.

[sugarbaker design]

3 minutes ago, DobbsFox said:

Matsson never sent anyone blood. If he did, he would never admit that to anyone in a position to use that info. against him.

The playbook on the Roy kids has been out for a while, and the headline is "Easily Manipulated." Matsson's had these three clocked since the moment they answered the phone. He's a Logan Roy-level business genius/sociopath and he's going to get whatever he wants out of them.

Totally agree.

[Francie]

34 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

Kill List was the title of the episode.  I expect good writing from Armstrong & Co, I haven't been disappointed yet.

I've been scarred by two other 10-episode season shows earlier this year that started somewhere and then went nowhere until the penultimate episode. It'll take a little time to learn to trust again. 

[Francie]

27 minutes ago, Lassus said:

I think the show is brilliant.  I think throughout the series the character of Greg has worked (barely), but THIS SEASON his character's writing has been very, very out of place and clunky, and just, well, bad.  His presence has been the biggest failure of an otherwise exceptional season.

I'm wondering if that's been intentional. Up unti this season Greg was (mainly) likable and quirky. At the very least, he provided some comic relief. He was introduced as the normal outsider, and thus he was the audience's eyes by which to view and learn about this very foreign world. So, in that respect, he was largely relatable. I always found him barely tolerable, though his scenes with Tom most enjoyable.  

But they've written Greg as completely unsympathetic this season, what with sexing someone up in his uncle's house and hanging her out to dry afterwards. And trying to worm his way into his cousins' circle. He feels zero grief, while they are falling apart in their own ways.  I think that's all been by design. We're supposed to become disenchanted, if we ever were, with Greg. 

[Lassus]

1 minute ago, Francie said:

But they've written Greg as completely unsympathetic this season, what with sexing someone up in his uncle's house and hanging her out to dry afterwards. And trying to worm his way into his cousins' circle. He feels zero grief, while they are falling apart in their own ways.  I think that's all been by design. We're supposed to become disenchanted, if we ever were, with Greg. 

Maybe.  All I keep thinking is his presence as a character is simply not needed at all this season.  Even Tom's great scenes have all been with other characters, and his interactions with Greg have simply been an afterthought.

[Dminches]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Among other things, as things stand, Mattson:

1. was able to get all the Waystar executives to jump at a moment's notice to join him in Norway, even with some still mourning their father

2. get them to agree to a better deal for him that included ATN

3. Assess the execs that he might want to keep after the merger happens (with an assist from Shiv)

4. Smoke out that the CE-bros were trying to tank the deal and neutralize them 

5. either get real advice on what to do about his ex and harassing of her or test Shiv to see how she would respond to a sexual harassment scenario involving him. (Right now I'm leaning toward it being a test. No matter how weird, giving multiple half-liters of blood seems excessive).

6. Lay the groundwork to sleep with Shiv. (One doesn't get someone alone, give drink and drugs to someone in a romantic cabin and ask them what the deal is with their husband as part of idle chatter).

I'd say so far advantage: Mattson.

Or...

1. The Waystar executives want the deal so it was in their best interest to go.

2. I am not sure this is a better deal for Mattson. He is paying almost $50B more.

4. Does he know who spoke to the press? I know he mentioned it but I didn't know if he actually knew the source.

6. Maybe she wants to sleep with him???

All these story lines can go either way.

 

[SHD]

35 minutes ago, Francie said:

But they've written Greg as completely unsympathetic this season, what with sexing someone up in his uncle's house and hanging her out to dry afterwards. And trying to worm his way into his cousins' circle.

You act like the Quad Squad isn't a real thing!