S05.E20: What's So Funny About Peas, Love and Understanding?

[Bastet]

The discussion about when Darlene talked to Ben about the job prompted me to re-watch, as it seemed the notion she made a decision without talking to him first was incorrect, but I didn't have a clear memory of the timeline.  Indeed, she didn't.  Here's how it unfolded:

Ben is the one who brought it up -- when he and Darlene were looking through other scholarship options after Mark revealed he didn't get the orchestra chair, Ben mentioned his college roommate's mom took a job at their school so his tuition would be half off.  Darlene, who hadn't known that was a thing, said she guessed she could see what's available at the schools Mark got into, he said he hadn't meant it as a suggestion, just an observation in response to her remark she doesn't know how parents manage this - she just started her job - and she said maybe there was something just as good as her new job available at the school (it goes from multiple schools to one in seconds) so it's something to consider.

After she met with the school counselor and found out cafeteria line worker was the only job available to her (well, that or flushing drains in the cadaver lab), but if she took it, the benefit would cover almost all of Mark's tuition, she asked for a night to think about it.  When Dan came by the next morning, she told him about it.  She felt like she had to do it, he advised against it, laid out the reasons, and closed with telling her to think long and hard about it.*

She met Ben at the Lunchbox for lunch, and he said Dan told him about the job and wants him to talk her out of it.  She said he won't have to, as she's pretty sure she's not going to do it -- they'd have to keep struggling to make ends meet for another five years, and he already has a hole in his stomach from stress, so she can't give up her new job and do that to him.  He thanked her, but told her she needs to do it -- if she doesn't send Mark to college (because, in Conner world, she either becomes a lunch lady or he doesn't go to school at all), she'll be unhappy the rest of her life, and he can handle an ulcer, but he can't handle her having one.  (That's when he closes with the great line "But if Mark majors in Philosophy, I will strangle him with his cardigan".)

So, she didn't talk with him about it that first night (there's no reference to him not getting home until she was asleep or anything like that, but he also doesn't have any sort of "Why didn't you tell me last night?" reaction upon saying Dan told him, so it's not an issue between them), but she didn't make a decision until she talked to him the next day.  She was leaning heavily towards turning it down because of him, and he told her not to.  Ben martyring himself is on him.

*Speaking of the conversation between Darlene and Dan, originally I was simply focused on how much sense he was speaking, but this time I also caught what a moving scene it is, because he wants the best for Mark, too, and understands her motivation, but that's his kid sitting there talking about derailing the life she just got back on track, and he doesn't want her to have to work until she drops like he does, so he's distraught.

And, goddamn, the scene between Darlene and Mark at the end is even better the second time around, too.  I'm still thoroughly annoyed by the way Mark's college options have been (mis)handled all along, of course, but the emotion of that scene is realistic as all get out.  The actors nail it, especially Sara, who actually had me tearing up along with her this time.

Edited April 22, 2023 by Bastet

[CrystalBlue]

So Ben just wants Darlene to be happy.  Damn the finances, struggling for at least four years, damn the health problems.  What happened to when Ben was stressing out as Darlene took her time getting a worthwhile job?  What a flip flop.

[QQQQ]

I just rewatched a few scenes. Mark plans to study computer science at the college which has been in Lanford the entire time. There's nothing about that major which would require him to go to an out-of-state college or prestigious university to be marketable. Hell, he could go to a technical college or at least start out at one. Furthermore, if he is able to attend college in town, he can live at home. This would probably cut his bill in half. Because it's usually free tuition for employees' kids, not room and board!!!

 

Also wanted to add that I coordinate our dual enrollment and AP options. With planning, students can earn 18+ FREE college credits while still in high school. 

Edited April 22, 2023 by QQQQ

[Ottis]

17 hours ago, MsNewsradio said:

I work for a top level university and I would tell ANYONE who has a kid looking at college to seriously consider the two year community college route and then transfer to a four year to finish a BA/BS. It’s insanely cheaper, you can usually get your general requirements out of the way, and no one looking at jobs (unless you are in a VERY specialized field) will care you went anywhere else - your diploma would still ultimately read the four year university. My father did the community college route and was given free ride offers to almost every Ivy when he left. There is a massive stigma regarding cc’s and it’s incredible to me that folks will drop 250K and put themselves in massive debt to come to a school like ours - while we are good, it’s not like you are getting a education THAT much different than you would otherwise (certainly not at that price point, and I say this as both an admin an an alum). Frankly, I’d put many of my father’s former cc professors ahead of ours in the rigors of their coursework (we still keep in touch).

This whole storyline just makes me angry.

Personal note … I actually did this, in the mid 80s. We had no money, single mom household, even back when college was relatively cheap. I went to CC for two years, talked constantly with advisors on which classes would transfer, and then did so. I only “lost” a few credits and a good number transferred as electives instead of what the class actually was (despite my best efforts at ensuring they would transfer as is, even advisors aren’t always right). I did have to take a dean- approved overload a couple of times to graduate within 4 total years (2 CC plus 2 state school), and one summer I had literally 5 jobs (a couple were occasional), but I did it and with no loans. It can be done with some thought and a lot of effort, neither of which are Connor family strong points.

[ofmd]

To say something positive, I did like the acting in the Darlene/ Mark scene and Becky's new love interest.

Although I hope they don't go the Nice Guy route (like, Becky isn't really into him, but she should because he's such a good guy! She just doesn't know what's good for her! Basically the Jackie/ Neville story). Also, people commenting he's like young Dan makes me nervous...

Edited April 22, 2023 by ofmd

[Whimsy]

On 4/20/2023 at 10:54 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

It suddenly occurred to me that the "executive hiring freeze" at the college is not in keeping with current reports of administrative bloat in higher education.  They should have had a job open for Darlene as a DEI administrator. 

My husband is a physician at a medical school.  They now have a department of well being and resilience.  I am not making that up. 

I work at a medical school and we have a severe freeze of all positions, so it depends on where you are, I guess. 
 

I dont have much more to add. I agree with everyone else- this storyline makes literally no sense. They just want to keep the Connors down any way they can. They never should have had Darlene get any of the management jobs. This would’ve made way more sense if she were still a line worker and moved to a lunch lady to help Mark with tuition. 

[Snow Apple]

I don't know why Darlene (and Hollywood) think Mark won't get the "college experience" at a community college. If most CC are like the one I went to, we had clubs, sports teams, concerts, plays, etc. 

Maybe they are confusing CC with technical school where students go to classes to learn a trade and go home (nothing wrong with that either).

[MarthaEllisanne]

On 4/19/2023 at 10:39 PM, Mittengirl said:

n a round-about way, what Dan said is what I have heard - there are loans for college, but there are no loans for retirement.

Yes! This is practically the first thing retirement financial planners tell you: Do not use your retirement savings for your children's college education. Children can take loans for their education but you cannot take loans for your retirement.
Also, I wonder what will happen when PETA-packing Darlene is required to serve the mystery meat of the day as lunch lady.  I recall it did not go well when her mother asked her to serve loose meat at the Lunch Box years ago.

[One Tough Cookie]

Darlene's Social Security monthly check will be minuscule,she will be able to maybe fill a gas tank once a month.

Once again the future seems to elude their way of thinking/budgeting.

[CrystalBlue]

3 hours ago, One Tough Cookie said:

Darlene's Social Security monthly check will be minuscule,she will be able to maybe fill a gas tank once a month.

Once again the future seems to elude their way of thinking/budgeting.

But Darlene's happy for now and Mark gets Darlene's and his dream college experience.  That's all that matters.

Let's give Darlene six months on the cafeteria lunch line.

[Irate Panda]

The only way I see any of this working is Darlene is a lunch lady for 5 minutes and then some other job opens up at the school that has to do with writing (so she’s not miserable) or something where she doesn’t have to deal with people (so the rest of Lanford is not miserable).  Otherwise I don’t  know how we are to believe she’s going to make it through 5 years in this job and aren’t Ben and Darlene “saving money” for Becky to get an apartment when she’s done her Master’s?

Edited April 22, 2023 by Irate Panda

[andidante]

Dan's the only one that made sense in this episode! I did like Becky and Tyler and hope that continues!

[One Tough Cookie]

29 minutes ago, andidante said:

! I did like Becky and Tyler and hope that continues!

Until she tries to psychoanalyze him because, ya know, she's so qualified.

[ams1001]

1 minute ago, One Tough Cookie said:

Until she tries to psychoanalyze him because, ya know, she's so qualified.

Seems like there's plenty of stuff with his mom to mine, there. At least he seems to have a sense of humor about it, though. I like that he has a job like Fed Ex pilot, too. Not the usual 'average nice guy' job on a sitcom.

[So unbelievable]

Let's assume for a moment that the lunch lady job does get immediate free tuition.  Why couldn't Mark quit his Whole Foods job and take the lunch lady job, or the job of unclogging the drain in the cadaver lab, so he could have a job and get his tuition for school?

If Darlene really wanted to make a sacrifice, perhaps she should have stayed at Wellman's and sucked it up for the good salary.  She could have had a lot saved by now. 

Sean Astin will always be Doug, Lucy's sister on 50 First Dates.  I like the story line with him and Becky, but he deserves better than her crazy ass.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

*Speaking of the conversation between Darlene and Dan, originally I was simply focused on how much sense he was speaking, but this time I also caught what a moving scene it is, because he wants the best for Mark, too, and understands her motivation, but that's his kid sitting there talking about derailing the life she just got back on track, and he doesn't want her to have to work until she drops like he does, so he's distraught.

I thought the same thing.

Edited April 24, 2023 by TattleTeeny

[tribeca]

Who is Samwise?

[ams1001]

10 minutes ago, tribeca said:

Who is Samwise?

Sean Astin's Hobbit character in the Lord of the Rings movies.

[Bastet]

16 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Sean Astin's Hobbit character in the Lord of the Rings movies.

Oh, thank you -- I thought I'd missed something during the napkin scene.

[Trillian]

Would some kind American please explain to us foreigners what the heck is a Community College and why it would be an option for Mark?  From the context, it’s becoming apparent it’s different from a Canadian college) as opposed to a university). Please?

[Browncoat]

3 minutes ago, Trillian said:

Would some kind American please explain to us foreigners what the heck is a Community College and why it would be an option for Mark?  From the context, it’s becoming apparent it’s different from a Canadian college) as opposed to a university). Please?

A community college is typically a two-year college that confers an Associate's Degree (instead of a Bachelor's or higher) in a variety of areas, including science, biotechnology, engineering, agriculture, English, and a host of others.  It can be a relatively inexpensive stepping stone to a four-year college or university, or to any number of health-care-related professions, or some of those Associates degrees can lead directly to employment.  It also generally offers courses/training in trades, such as plumbing, welding, and HVAC.  The one where I work has classes for different types of driving licenses, such as motorcycle and CDL for long-haul truck drivers.  

 

[Brn2bwild]

Still haven't watched this episode, so maybe this has already been addressed in-episode, but what about Harris?  She may not be as academically inclined as Mark, but she was interested in going to college and did almost go to one until they realized how big a loan she would have to take out.  I wonder if Harris feels resentment that her mom was willing to make such a big sacrifice to help her brother go to college for cheap when she wasn't given that opportunity. 

[JAYJAY1979]

Darlene throwing away a good job over trying to get her son into a college is sad.  He could totally go to community college or a technical school over college.

 

[Shermie]

On 4/24/2023 at 8:35 PM, Trillian said:

Would some kind American please explain to us foreigners what the heck is a Community College and why it would be an option for Mark?  From the context, it’s becoming apparent it’s different from a Canadian college) as opposed to a university). Please?

As a fellow Canadian, I’ve surmised that what we call university is called college in the U.S.

But what we call college (which is still respectable here) is not the same as community college in the U.S. (since it’s often mentioned disparagingly, although that could be the bias of snooty Hollywood writers).

[juliet73]

I'm with everyone else on the Darlene being a lunch lady is stupid. Even if Darlene's management job was low paying, she would still be earning at least twice more than a lunch lady (not to mention health insurance, benefits and a 401k).  So if Mark is currently a junior in HS, she could easily save a portion of her manager pay for the next year and used it towards Mark's first year or least first semester of school (instead of saving money for a car for Mark like she had planned).  If that isn't feasible, why can't Mark go to community college for the first year and then transfer to his "dream school" after that?  Even if that wouldn't work, she could save money over the next 5 years and pay a good chunk of his student loans after he graduates.  I'm just not understanding Darlene going through all of this because Mark deserves the "college experience".  I assume he would be living at home and not the dorm since it seems close by so what is the "experience" they both feel like Mark would be missing out on if he went to community college? Has it even been mentioned what he wants to major in?

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, juliet73 said:

 Has it even been mentioned what he wants to major in?

Darlene mentioned the school's great computer science program at the beginning of the scene when she talked with the administrator (of whom she ultimately asked about employment for tuition benefit opportunities) about how Mark had been accepted and was considering attending.

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

"I work for a top level university and I would tell ANYONE who has a kid looking at college to seriously consider the two year community college route and then transfer to a four year to finish a BA/BS. It’s insanely cheaper, you can usually get your general requirements out of the way, and no one looking at jobs (unless you are in a VERY specialized field) will care you went anywhere else - your diploma would still ultimately read the four year university. "

I will attest to this as well.  Daughter #1 did dual enrollment and earned college credit in HS - got a scholarship to CC for two years (with Honors so she got money for books as well), got her AA and then transferred to a 4 year under the Honors program and graduated with her BA and NO debt (she did work part time for car payment/insurance/ incidentals.  Daughter #2 took a different route but ended up at CC and got her AA in Nursing (had to pay but got piecemeal scholarship that paid for almost her entire tuition and books - it helped that she worked in a hospital). She is now an RN and makes BANK. I think she only graduated with about $2000 of debt (doesn't want to get a BSN because she doesn't like administration stuff). 

D1's Honors English teacher told me that many professors would rather teach at the CC level because the classes are smaller and they get more significant interaction with the students, so at least at our local CCs, the teaching staff is excellent. Plus my kids lived at home and again saved a bunch of $. 

FWTW, the whole contrabassoon story line was so incredibly dumb and inconceivable that Darlene being humiliated as a lunch lady is a step up. But she has to put that hair in the hairnet cos that is seriously gross. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 4/21/2023 at 11:06 AM, Rocknrollzombie said:

It doesn't matter if you don't live with your parent or parents; you still must report information about them. The following people are not your parents unless they have legally adopted you: grandparents, foster parents, legal guardians, older brothers or sisters, uncles or aunts, and widowed stepparents.

Ben isn't a widowed stepparent.  https://studentaid.gov/apply-for-aid/fafsa/filling-out/parent-info: "If you have a stepparent who is married to the legal parent whose information you're reporting, you must provide information about that stepparent as well."  This is why someone in Darlene's position might decide not to remarry until after Mark had finished college.

[mythoughtis]

An addendum to the community college discussion for the Canadian.   Community colleges are local.  Although a few might have housing, most do not- because you can commute there every day.  Most have some extracurricular activities, some have  sports teams that compete against other  community colleges.  They are attended by people of all ages, and have both daytime and evening classes.  
They are a great way of keeping your costs down. Tuition is much much less than even public universities.  No employer cares if you satisfied your electives ( general studies) at a community college - they care where you took your major coursework.  My younger son went to community college first. Cause we didn’t feel he had developed good study habits on high school and we wanted him to mature a bit more before being gone for weeks at a time. 
What they do not have?  The budget and prestige of four year universities, the dorm experience, the nightlife that college students are known for. 

 

[StaceyNotStacie]

I sort of get it. I have teenagers who just graduated and are graduating this year. One is attending community college and the other is searching out tech schools. I attended community college and my Dh joined the military. I understand why Darlene would put such an emphasis on the college experience, especially after seeing Harris not doing anything and Becky struggling as a 40-something (my age) to attend college. She doesn’t want him to miss out or regret that he didn’t have that experience. 

[ESS]

This episode for me was pretty...boring, but glad Louise was there though and glad she tried to help Becky out with meeting a new guy though.