S03.E10: Part Ten - The Last Generation

[marinw]

What happened to the Enterprise F? Did Worf do something to thst ship too? Can two ships in service have the same name?

So Seven and Jack got through the Acedemy in as year? Starfleet must be very short staffed.

"If Earth falls, the Galaxy falls". Why is Earth so important to the Borg?  I know it was was of the founding worlds of the Federation but wouldn't it have been more *cough* logical to assimilate Vulcan instead?

Edited April 21, 2023 by marinw

[tv-talk]

2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Then I came here to check if I should watch what I missed, the answer is a clear 'nope'. Oh well, all the snarking was fun - I guess I'll see some of you again over at the Disco forum.

So I cant stand Discovery, think Season1 was worst Trek I have ever seen by light years. Just awful- in my personal opinion, of course, just mine. However I have noticed in this thread that many of the people who didnt like Picard Season3 seem to be fans of Discovery. Would that be accurate? Is there a difference in the 2 series that kind of make them the antithesis of each other?

[paigow]

The wedding photo is an egregious insult...why would they be wearing 20th century civilian clothing when they are both Admirals....besides the obvious age difference that others have mentioned. This could have been salvaged if it was a Dixon Hill scene

4 hours ago, marinw said:

What happened to the Enterprise F? Did Worf do something to thst ship too? Can two ships in service have the same name?

So Seven and Jack got through the Acedemy in as year? Starfleet must be very short staffed.

"If Earth falls, the Galaxy falls". Why is Earth so important to the Borg?  I know it was was of the founding worlds of the Federation but wouldn't it have been more *cough* logical to assimilate Vulcan instead?

Shelby was commanding Enterprise F ... So whatever Worf did was not catastrophic. 

After the Romulan disaster, Vulcan was declared off-limits by The Queen.

[PurpleTentacle]

1 hour ago, Chit Chat said:

I doubt that Troi would breach any confidentiality with Riker. 

After what she pulled last episode and how it sounded this episode, I'm sure she did.

12 minutes ago, tv-talk said:

However I have noticed in this thread that many of the people who didnt like Picard Season3 seem to be fans of Discovery. Would that be accurate?

I don't think so? I can only speak for myself with confidence, but Discovery is about the worst thing I've ever seen put on streaming and that is saying something. My "list of stupid" for this episode pales in comparison to the lists I had for Discovery episodes. On that show an admiral died, because they didn't put a button on both sides of a blastdoor... or used a broom with a string to push the button from the outside... or made one of the repair drones do it... or beamed her out after she pressed the button. It was so dumb, my mind still can't quite comprehend it.

10 minutes ago, paigow said:

The wedding photo is an egregious insult...why would they be wearing 20th century civilian clothing when they are both Admirals....besides the obvious age difference that others have mentioned. This could have been salvaged if it was a Dixon Hill scene

Why do you think it's a wedding photo? I took it as just an old photo where his parents were together and happy. I mean Gates doesn't even have the right hair colour, for the photo to be recent.

[marinw]

5 minutes ago, paigow said:

Shelby was commanding Enterprise F ... So whatever Worf did was not catastrophic. 

Shows you how much I was paying attention!

[tv-talk]

24 minutes ago, paigow said:

The wedding photo is an egregious insult

 

I didnt think it was supposed to be a wedding photo, rather just a photo where they happen to be together at some function as you'd expect the crew was innumerable times over their careers together.

13 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I don't think so? I can only speak for myself with confidence, but Discovery is about the worst thing I've ever seen put on streaming and that is saying something

Ok good, it wasnt just me lol. 

33 minutes ago, marinw said:

Did Worf do something to thst ship too?

Ok forgive me here but I cant recall and noticed the references during show...in which series or movie did Worf ruin or destroy a ship? I'll have to go back and check it out...

[MissLucas]

35 minutes ago, tv-talk said:

So I cant stand Discovery, think Season1 was worst Trek I have ever seen by light years. Just awful- in my personal opinion, of course, just mine. However I have noticed in this thread that many of the people who didnt like Picard Season3 seem to be fans of Discovery. Would that be accurate? Is there a difference in the 2 series that kind of make them the antithesis of each other?

Not me, I enjoy Disco for the simple joy of  providing a snarkfeast supreme and because I started to write the diary of the only acceptable character of the show - a cat. Sadly I never managed to find that particular joy with Picard.

[PurpleTentacle]

Just now, MissLucas said:

Not me, I enjoy Disco for the simple joy of  providing a snarkfeast supreme and because I started to write the diary of the only acceptable character of the show - a cat. Sadly I never managed to find that particular joy with Picard.

That is a good point. Discovery was worse, but I didn't hate it as much. It was fun to snark about.

Picard kinda broke me in seasons 1 and 2, because they butchered characters I loved. I didn't even know I was such a big fan of Star Trek and TNG in particular until the Picard-writers butchered it. That hurt me somewhere deep. I guess that is a connection you make when you watch something as a little kid. This season was more palatable since the writers at least got the characters kinda, sorta right, for the most part. What they didn't get right is that these characters would have made more intelligent decisions and of course everything else was bad, detailed in my extensive rants about the episodes.

Discovery I just have no attachment to, so I can watch it like any other trash-TV for the lolz.

[tv-talk]

12 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Picard kinda broke me in seasons 1 and 2, because they butchered characters I loved. I didn't even know I was such a big fan of Star Trek and TNG in particular until the Picard-writers butchered it. That hurt me somewhere deep.

Ok, see I didnt watch Picard Season 1 and 2. I saw I think first 2eps and decided it wasnt for me.

Quote

I guess that is a connection you make when you watch something as a little kid.

Indeed! As a young teen I watched TNG with my dearly departed Mom and have to say I unexpectedly had tears in my eyes several times during Picard3- and it wasnt for the superb writing lol.  Just the nostalgia. 

[marinw]

29 minutes ago, tv-talk said:

Ok forgive me here but I cant recall and noticed the references during show...in which series or movie did Worf ruin or destroy a ship? I'll have to go back and check it out...

IIRC a few episodes back Worf made a comment along the lines tht what happened to the Enterprise E "Wasn't my fault."

[iMonrey]

Too many grand speeches in such a state of urgency. The episode was trying way too hard to be cinematic and it really killed the pacing.

I also think it was way too convenient that all the cadets and young officers who had been assimilated just automatically returned to normal once the Borg Queen was killed. If I followed the plot correctly, they were all infused with some sort of genetic Borg material that, once activated by Jack's signal, assimilated them. Both physically and mentally. Now I can see where they might regain their own consciousness and agency once the signal was broken but I wouldn't expect their physical changes to automatically reverse themselves. I think that should have waited until Beverly was able to de-Borg them with the transporter. Even then there should have been some scars just from the physical changes.

It sounded like Majel Barrett's voice as the Enterprise D computer. I assume they culled some old audio bytes from the original series but it must have been laborious finding ones that would work in context. Unless some kind of computer trickery just rearranged various words she said. Or they found someone who sounded just like her.

[marinw]

Although it is time for this show to end, I would still like to see more of the late 24th and Early 25th Century. This feels like the “present” of  Star Trek with SNW in the past and Disco in the future. One of the reasons why Lower Decks is my favourite ST series right now.

Edited April 21, 2023 by marinw

[chaifan]

My first thought, in the first 30 seconds of the show...  they already forgot how to turn the lights on.  Seriously, the bridge of the Enterprise was fully lit at the end of Episode 9, and by the start of Episode 10 it was at about 40% lighting. 

I would have enjoyed this season a lot more if they condensed the first 7 or 8 episodes into 4, and gave us more at the end.  This was a pretty good episode, but the season as a whole was a slog. 

This is the only tv forum site I visit.  If anyone else is on any other forums for Picard, I'd love to know...  does anyone like Jack?  Is there any positive feedback from reviewers, viewers, fan sites, whatever, that is saying "yeah, what a great idea for a character!  Fabulous plot development for him!  We all need more of Jack!"??? 

I loved Deanna scrolling through vacation site pics while listening to Data drone on.  Good to know some things don't change in 400 years. 

Orlando.  Really?  Did some announcer come up to Will and Deanna and say "Will & Deanna - you just saved the Galaxy!  What are you going to do next?"   "We're going to DisneyLand!"  

Count me among those who would have much rather seen Wesley show up in the post-credit scene, with just a fun "hey little brother, welcome to the family".  I loved Q back in the day, appreciated him in Season 2, but at this point enough is enough. 

I just have to weigh in on the Discovery comments, above...  I only watched about 1/2 of the first season (maybe not even that much).  I quit the show because while I felt it was a good sci-fi show, it was awful Star Trek.  If they had called it something else, took it out of the ST world, I think I would have enjoyed it more and kept watching.

I think with this I can cancel my Paramount subscription. 

[Chit Chat]

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Of course, what I really want is a Worf spin-off.  I heard they are planning on doing a Starfleet Academy show and I so want him to be one of the professors.  He and Michael Dorn really are the gifts that keep on giving.

That would be fantastic!  

[paigow]

1 hour ago, tv-talk said:

Is there a difference in the 2 series that kind of make them the antithesis of each other?

The group of shows:Discovery; Strange New Worlds; and Picard all are rooted in the hive mind of Hackiva Goldsman - so one being an antithesis to the other is impossible. Alternatively, they are all rotten apples falling in close proximity to the gnarled tree that spawned them.

[Francie]

17 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

It sounded like Majel Barrett's voice as the Enterprise D computer. I assume they culled some old audio bytes from the original series but it must have been laborious finding ones that would work in context.

Before she died, Majel spent hours upon hours recording words upon words and hosts of phrases so that her voice could be used in future Trek endeavors. So there's a catalogue, indexed and ready to go. 

When J.J. Abrams resurrected Trek, he decided not to use it. 

[paigow]

1 hour ago, tv-talk said:

Ok forgive me here but I cant recall and noticed the references during show...in which series or movie did Worf ruin or destroy a ship? I'll have to go back and check it out...

Not his fault, but Defiant was severely damaged by a Borg cube in the opening minutes of First Contact. Worf and other survivors were beamed aboard Enterprise E.

[PurpleTentacle]

28 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I also think it was way too convenient that all the cadets and young officers who had been assimilated just automatically returned to normal once the Borg Queen was killed. If I followed the plot correctly, they were all infused with some sort of genetic Borg material that, once activated by Jack's signal, assimilated them. Both physically and mentally. Now I can see where they might regain their own consciousness and agency once the signal was broken but I wouldn't expect their physical changes to automatically reverse themselves. I think that should have waited until Beverly was able to de-Borg them with the transporter. Even then there should have been some scars just from the physical changes.

Oh yeah. I thought about that during the episode, but forgot it in my long list of stupid.

They either should have returned to normal when the signal was broken, or not at all. Them returning to normal when the Bord Queen died made no sense.

30 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

It sounded like Majel Barrett's voice as the Enterprise D computer. I assume they culled some old audio bytes from the original series but it must have been laborious finding ones that would work in context. Unless some kind of computer trickery just rearranged various words she said. Or they found someone who sounded just like her.

Afaik Majel recorded so many soundfiles, before her death, that they could basically use her as the computer in any situation. But nowadays you could just train an AI on the voice files from the show and you wouldn't hear the difference. Advancements in AI are wild and scary (not because they might take over, but soon we won't be able to trust anything anymore).

15 minutes ago, Francie said:

When J.J. Abrams resurrected Trek, he decided not to use it. 

Another reason to hate him.

[Stardancer Supreme]

1 hour ago, marinw said:

What happened to the Enterprise F? Did Worf do something to thst ship too? Can two ships in service have the same name?

So Seven and Jack got through the Acedemy in as year? Starfleet must be very short staffed.

"If Earth falls, the Galaxy falls". Why is Earth so important to the Borg?  I know it was was of the founding worlds of the Federation but wouldn't it have been more *cough* logical to assimilate Vulcan instead?

 

Seven was already a Commander at the start of this season. She wasn't in the Academy.  She has been Captain for a whole year before the Titan became the Enterprise.

Guess I will go to Twitter to harass I mean ask TM some more questions... I wonder if we will get all the BTS gag reels and scenes they cut for the Blu-Ray?

1 hour ago, tv-talk said:

So I cant stand Discovery, think Season1 was worst Trek I have ever seen by light years. Just awful- in my personal opinion, of course, just mine. However I have noticed in this thread that many of the people who didnt like Picard Season3 seem to be fans of Discovery. Would that be accurate? Is there a difference in the 2 series that kind of make them the antithesis of each other?

 

As a fan of both Picard and Discovery, I wonder why people seem to want to watch something they really don't like? Real Life is eventful enough to experience rather than to torture myself by hate-watching entertainment media.

 

39 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

It sounded like Majel Barrett's voice as the Enterprise D computer. I assume they culled some old audio bytes from the original series but it must have been laborious finding ones that would work in context. Unless some kind of computer trickery just rearranged various words she said. Or they found someone who sounded just like her.

 

It was her voice. They used portions of her work from the Star Trek TNG movie.

[tv-talk]

18 minutes ago, paigow said:

The group of shows:Discovery; Strange New Worlds; and Picard all are rooted in the hive mind of Hackiva Goldsman - so one being an antithesis to the other is impossible.

Oh I have to completely disagree with that. Strange New Worlds is a terrific show truly in the tradition of the original Star Trek series. Discovery is nothing like that at all from what I saw. It seemed the primary mission of the show's first season was to establish that Spock's unknown "sister" was in fact superior to him in every way. And the dead-not-dead Captain superior to all who came before, etc etc. 

[dwmarch]

So the Borg Queen is all by herself eating through her drones to sustain herself. Okay, I guess that explains why the Borg didn't just attack Earth with a bunch of ships. But when Jack plugs in, he hears the Collective and describes all these voices and all this harmony and etc etc. Umm, where is this Collective he is hearing? Is it all the young kids attacking Earth? Because they just became Borg so they shouldn't be quite so harmonious yet. Picard was able to fight through the Borg programming a bit in BoBW and you'd think the various ensigns who were on the verge of blowing up the Earth might have also felt the same. Also, this new Collective wasn't really all that large. Dozens, perhaps hundreds of ships. So we have a situation where the Borg are both vast enough to be awe-inspiring (to Jack; I wasn't impressed) but small enough to be defeated by a handful of people and a hug.

Speaking of hugs, they did most of the work this season. The Borg's nefarious plot? Picard stops it by hugging Jack. Seven's career in Starfleet? Saved by Shaw's final sentimental message. Data gives Lore a hug to bring him over and last but not least, Vadic is defeated by the cold embrace of vacuum. Even Worf hugged a bunch of people.

Also, what is going on with the Borg tech? The new Borg have black veins but no tech implants. When the Borg get blown up this stuff just... goes away. Jack had some stuff bolted onto him but his modifications didn't look anywhere near as harsh as what happened to Picard. Resistance is futile, you will be mildly inconvenienced.

Speaking of being mildly inconvenienced, why aren't all starships built out of the same stuff Spacedock is made out of? What a boss-level station that is, just taking a pounding forever and turning Starfleet into star dust.

They could have done a nice stinger here with Seven. The bridge crew on the new Enterprise-G is awaiting her version of "I want the ship to go... now" and instead they get "surprise, MFs!" and she assimilates the entire bridge crew. I'm glad they didn't go that way but I'm sure they were tempted.

I hope Picard and Crusher didn't get married because that would be really rude to Laris. She encourages Picard to get out there and deal with his restlessness and he comes back with a wife and child? Well, maybe that's not out of bounds to Romulans, who knows?

So what exactly is a synth anyhow? Data talks about being human but he can still do android stuff like flying the ship through a Borg cube. Picard is a synth but can still be assimilated by the Borg. It's almost like the writers didn't put very much thought into the whole thing!

While it was neat to see John DeLancie as Q one last time, I kind of wish it had been Q's son or daughter or Wesley Crusher or someone/something else. And I wish Guinan had actually appeared in the episode instead of just being mentioned.

[tv-talk]

1 minute ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

As a fan of both Picard and Discovery, I wonder why people seem to want to watch something they really don't like?

I cant speak for anyone else but I watched 2 episodes of Picard and I think most of Discovery Season1- that was all I could take.

[Prevailing Wind]

I tried Discovery and couldn't get through the first episode, much less season.  On the other hand, I'm enjoying SNW. I just don't think of it as ST, much like the Kelvin timeline. It's just fun science fiction. Voyager has its moments, but it's mostly Saint Janeway doing implausible, inconsistent stuff.  I was in high school when TOS began, so I didn't really "grow up" with ST, but I enjoy most of it.  I think Enterprise, except for its final episode, was fun and I love DS9.  I didn't like TNG when it first began, but since PlutoTV shows it practically non-stop, I've grown to appreciate it.

Picard, however, was a pastiche of mostly crap writing.  However, as mentioned upthread, Worf is gold.

[Stardancer Supreme]

Well, all I can say is that I hope the writers coming in take advantage of the considerable lore (pun intended) to craft tighter stories for Star Trek that doesn't shyt on what we already have been given. The writer's room needs people who are fans of the subjects and can remember what went on before they step in, so at least these stories can make sense to those of us who watched everything Trek these past few decades.  It shouldn't be so easy to pick apart an episode based on what the previous ones already told us.

I'm forgiving, so I am not about to declare all NuTrek is trash. 

[Egg McMuffin]

I liked the ending. Yeah, you could nitpick it to death but the TNG crew got the sendoff they deserved. Wish they had ended it with the poker scene. I never liked Q.

Jeri Ryan is great. I’d definitely watch a spinoff with her. But Seven getting command of the flagship so quickly seems silly.

Worf in many ways was the MVP of this series. I think he’s the spiritual successor to Spock, not Data.

It didn’t make much sense to me that a 20+ year old ship has been rechristened as the Enterprise. Weren’t the previous Enterprises always state-of-the-art? Why was the Enterprise F being decommissioned so quickly anyway?

TNG took place 80 years after TOS. And now we’re 30 years after TNG. Would Chekhov’s son really be around? Maybe Chekhov had him when he was 75 or something.

That Seven promotion scene with Tuvok really seemed like it was written for Janeway.

[rtms77]

10 hours ago, rtms77 said:

Looks like Picard and Beverly got married, from the picture on Jacks desk. Too bad Laris, you lost out to bad writing and nostalgia.

Looks like I’m wrong on this, as others have pointed out it could have just been an old photo for Jack to have both parents in. 

[PurpleTentacle]

18 minutes ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

As a fan of both Picard and Discovery, I wonder why people seem to want to watch something they really don't like? Real Life is eventful enough to experience rather than to torture myself by hate-watching entertainment media.

I have a hard time dropping shows once I started them and I used to love Star Trek, so of course I start these shows in the hope that they might actually be good. And for Lower Decks (and kind of for strange new worlds) it actually paid off.

Also again, for Discovery it's not actually torture. It's horribly written, but so bad it's entertaining to watch the trainwreck. For Picard it sure was torture though.

If that was a passive agressive way of telling us to stop complaining about it: Nope. It's the only solace I get after watching this crap.

24 minutes ago, tv-talk said:

Strange New Worlds is a terrific show truly in the tradition of the original Star Trek series.

It's okay. The science in it is still very, very cringe. "We need to hide in this Brown Dwarf, that is being consumed by that Black Hole and not only does it take hours instead of millions of years, we also suffer no time dialation from being this close to this black hole! Isn't that convenient?!"

Because, of course just hiding in a gas giant isn't good enough anymore. No, we need to hide in a brown dwarf that is being consumed by a black hole! It has to be big and bombastic and flashy. I for one think that gas giants are really impressive and scary, but apparently that isn't good enough.

If I could think about it as not Star Trek, I might be okay with it, but Star Trek at least used to try to stay somewhat grounded and SNW certainly does not. I miss TNG, DS9 and even Voyager, where the best episodes were not the flashy over the top ones, but the small intimate ones.

14 minutes ago, Egg McMuffin said:

TNG took place 80 years after TOS. And now we’re 30 years after TNG. Would Chekhov’s son really be around? Maybe Chekhov had him when he was 75 or something.

People get very old. Bones was 137 when he visited the Enterprise D.

[Stardancer Supreme]

13 minutes ago, Egg McMuffin said:

I liked the ending. Yeah, you could nitpick it to death but the TNG crew got the sendoff they deserved. Wish they had ended it with the poker scene. I never liked Q.

Jeri Ryan is great. I’d definitely watch a spinoff with her. But Seven getting command of the flagship so quickly seems silly.

Worf in many ways was the MVP of this series. I think he’s the spiritual successor to Spock, not Data.

It didn’t make much sense to me that a 20+ year old ship has been rechristened as the Enterprise. Weren’t the previous Enterprises always state-of-the-art? Why was the Enterprise F being decommissioned so quickly anyway?

TNG took place 80 years after TOS. And now we’re 30 years after TNG. Would Chekhov’s son really be around? Maybe Chekhov had him when he was 75 or something.

That Seven promotion scene with Tuvok really seemed like it was written for Janeway.

 

Well, Seven saved the Earth 3 times if you count Picard Seasons 1 and 2.  She is quite deserving of being Captain of the Enterprise. Shaw was going to call it a day had he survived this adventure, and she was going to be Captain of the Titan, anyway.  As much as Starfleet owes Jean-Luc, they would never give a ship to his boy.

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

This is the only tv forum site I visit.  If anyone else is on any other forums for Picard, I'd love to know...  does anyone like Jack?  Is there any positive feedback from reviewers, viewers, fan sites, whatever, that is saying "yeah, what a great idea for a character!  Fabulous plot development for him!  We all need more of Jack!"??? 

 

As for Jack, his character reminds me of one of my favorite Cosby Show episodes; the one where Vanessa introduces her parents to Dabnes Brickey, her fiance that she told no one about beforehand.  I don't dislike Jack, per se; it's just that TM presented Jack to us like a perfectly cooked steak dinner that was placed on a garbage can lid. Jack wasn't as appealing as he should have been based on the way he was presented to us.

[jmonique]

"Swords are fun."

"Whoever leaked this information is an honorable maverick..."

Yeah, I do need more Worf in future Trek.

I thought it was rich of freshly freed Tuvok to be all "The command crew of the USS Enterprise are receiving a full pardon." Yeah, I'd hope so, considering Play-Doh was walking around with Tuvok's face for who knows how long.

[theredhead77]

I loved this send-off so much. My only complaint is no Wesley. No mention of him, no nothing. I also didn't see a new Ready Room but maybe I missed that it will be released on Saturday like last week.

Add me to the group that thinks the photo of Beverly and Picard was just a happy photo. I love that they found a real photo of Gates and Patrick to use instead of digitally creating one.

58 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

Also, what is going on with the Borg tech? The new Borg have black veins but no tech implants. When the Borg get blown up this stuff just... goes away.

Didn't the Queen say something about evolution? Perhaps Borg 2.0 doesn't require the hardware.

[rtms77]

So according to TM, 7 was always planned to take over the Enterprise. And Ro was supposed to survive the explosion.And Q was planned to return last season when they were filming that ending. He really did just throw everything out  and just made a whole season of big events.  Basically it came down to time and money.

 

Star Trek Picard Finale, TM interview

[Peace 47]

 

50 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Afaik Majel recorded so many soundfiles, before her death, that they could basically use her as the computer in any situation. But nowadays you could just train an AI on the voice files from the show and you wouldn't hear the difference. Advancements in AI are wild and scary (not because they might take over, but soon we won't be able to trust anything anymore).

They did that kind of AI training with Mark Hamill on the currently airing Star Wars shows on Disney+.  Even though Mark is still alive and could have done the voicework for Luke Skywalker, they just used Mark’s prior work (I think audiobook recordings) to generate the lines that they wanted Luke to say in the shows, then used a stand-in and CGI for his body.  I had just assumed that they did that for Majel’s voice here.  I had no idea she put so much work into preserving her voice before this tech was even developed.

[Starchild]

12 hours ago, greekmom said:

Instead of John de Lancie as Q approaching Jack it should have been Keegan de Lancie's Q.

Apparently Voyager was his last acting gig. He's a bureaucrat now, apparently works for the State Department. :O

12 hours ago, Francie said:

A rule of Roddenberry's that the TNG writers took to heart even after his passing -- no out-of-time idioms. No "above my pay grade" type of sayings. 

That reminds me, at the poker table at the end, after Picard won the pot, someone said "I guess we know who's paying", I was like what? Why is that a saying for you guys?

11 hours ago, rtms77 said:

Special counselor ensign Jack Crusher? This whole accelerated promotion thing with Starfleet is stretching creditably. It’s like Malalas did no homework on how military or navy command structure works and just pulled said position out of thin air 

That was ridiculous. I'm telling myself that was just Seven patronizing Jack. "Who's a good special advisor?" After they left the system she sent him to clean the space toilets.

10 hours ago, greekmom said:

I rather think that Kate Mulgrew knew it was a shit show and didn't want to join. They probably would have killed her off anyway like they did Ro and Shelby.

Oh man, yeah I can totally see the Shelby thing was originally written to be Janeway and Mulgrew was like, nope.

9 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

How about you beam the Borg into the brig instead of the transporter room? Think that might be a good idea, 7?

Because she knew they were too stupid to think about beaming themselves out again? That's the trouble with young Borg today, no imagination.

4 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Definitely getting some potential spin-off vibes with the new Enterprise and its crew.  I won't even pretend I won't watch as long as they have Captain Seven at the helm, but the focus on Jack could be tiresome. 

Agreed! Seven as captain of the Enterprise? Sold. But please, lose Crusher. We can keep Q, glad to see he's not dead to us linear humans.

[Frozendiva]

I enjoyed the nostalgia and spending a short time with old friends. Worf is priceless and his snoring on the bridge was funny. I was fully expecting Q to make an appearance and we get another round of Joseph K. And The Trial.

The Jack Crusher character will need a lot of good writing to make him compelling and worth my while to watch. He isn’t particularly interesting and not especially commanding. I wouldn’t mind a Seven of Nine Legacy series, but one where Jack is sent back to Starfleet for more classes.

Similar complaints about the writing, the plot holes, having an interesting idea but not really executing it. Too much time wasted on Vadic and a rushed Borg villain mastermind reveal. Too much Borg.

[paigow]

1 hour ago, tv-talk said:

Oh I have to completely disagree with that. Strange New Worlds is a terrific show truly in the tradition of the original Star Trek series.

They take TOS!Kirk events and move them earlier in the timeline... They put both Kirk brothers on the Enterprise as junior officers. WTF.. SNW is the same shit with no idea of canon or how stupid Spock and Uhura are because they forget to tell Captain Kirk about Gorns and Romulans...

[formerlyfreedom]

More Worf, please. Like, can we just get weekly videos of Worf-isms? I would pay money for that (with occasional guest appearances from other cast members, of course).

Worf: ”I will make it a threesome.”

Riker: “Do you even hear yourself?”

 

 

[Prevailing Wind]

1 hour ago, Frozendiva said:

I wouldn’t mind a Seven of Nine Legacy series, but one where Jack is sent back to Starfleet for more classes.

Oh, they can keep him around - let him take Guinan's place in Ten Forward. He can mix all the drinks.

[Glade]

I was really moved by Seven and Raffi's happy endings, even if they are definitely not a couple.  And the borg were given a satisfying conclusion; I do wish the queen had referenced Janeway, as she was the one who introduced the pathogen which decimated the borg; though since apparently the producers declared she was exclusive to ST: Prodigy it might have just been salting the wound.  Tuvok showing up to promote Seven was still really lovely.  I was happy for Jack, Picard and Beverly as well; though I wasn't feeling the beginning of the episode, it was in the end almost perfect seeing off the borg queen for real this time.  It still vindicates Janeway, she dealt the decisive blow to the borg and brought her family home all in one. 

I very much so want to see Star Trek: Legacy, for captain Seven, for (as promised) visiting Ds9 (hopefully with Worf!), bringing back Kira Neys and Voyager's doctor...I do however think renaming The Titan may have edged the potential series a bit too close to SNW.  And since this is the 'next next generation,' couldn't the end-scene have been Voyager's Q-2 instead?  I wasn't happy to see the old Q again, and Q 2 could have been cast to be the same age as Jack's actor, Seven would remember him too...   

Edited April 21, 2023 by Glade

[Egg McMuffin]

Quote from Picard showrunner Terry Matalas: “We have wanted some more ‘Voyager’ folks to come be part of Seven of Nine’s promotion to captain. It comes down to how many pennies you have left in the piggy bank after building a Borg cube and an Enterprise.”

So it sounds like they either didn’t have the money for Kate Mulgrew, or if they did make an offer to her, she declined. He also mentions that John DeLancie did the Q scene for very little money.

Star Trek: Picard’ Showrunner on Possible Spinoff, How Q Returned for the finale and Getting That Final Shot

Edited April 21, 2023 by Egg McMuffin

[KeithJ]

8 hours ago, rtms77 said:

So according to TM, 7 was always planned to take over the Enterprise. And Ro was supposed to survive the explosion.And Q was planned to return last season when they were filming that ending. He really did just throw everything out  and just made a whole season of big events.  Basically it came down to time and money.

 

Star Trek Picard Finale, TM interview

I guess they could still say Ro beamed off her shuttle at the last minute if they really want to bring her back.  Add her to the Enterprise G crew and I'm definitely in for that.

[cardigirl]

I really really was hoping that somehow Shaw had survived, and we'd get a glimpse of him at the end. I really enjoyed that character and his arc.  

As far as the season goes, I liked S3 of Picard much better than S2. I wish all three seasons were a bit more cohesive and hung together better, but I enjoyed watching. (#memberberry)  

Was very glad to get the little line about how the changelings kept their prisoners alive and seeing Tuvok restored. 

Hard to believe Rikker is 70. Jonathan Frakes was excellent this season. 

[greekmom]

9 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

I don't dislike Jack, per se; it's just that TM presented Jack to us like a perfectly cooked steak dinner that was placed on a garbage can lid. Jack wasn't as appealing as he should have been based on the way he was presented to us.

I dont dislike him per say but I hate the way he was introduced (Bev never told JL bc of ... stupid reasons) and the actor is totally wrong for the character (I've seen Ed Speleers in Outlander and he did a wonderful job. But this role should have been given to a much younger person. Let's be honest).   If it was the same as Kirk where Picard knew he had a son but stayed away for reason x, y and z, I could have accepted it more. If the actor was looking like he was 23, yeah I could have accepted it more.  But like you said, they cooked a steak dinner and placed it on a garbage can lid.
 

I was thinking what they could have done instead of the Borg and came up with a mix of the Changelings and a call back to the Eugenics.  What if section 31 was tinkering with that? It would have been a great opportunity to bring in Dr. Bashir.  Oh well... could have, should have, would have. 

It's over.

 

[marinw]

The Changelling detetor thing at the end felt a little shoehorned in, as if the writers almost forgot that was a major plot point earlier in the season.

[Starchild]

1 hour ago, KeithJ said:

I guess they could still say Ro beamed off her shuttle at the last minute if they really want to bring her back.  Add her to the Enterprise G crew and I'm definitely in for that.

Michelle Forbes doesn't settle in one place for too long. She's always on the move, like an awesome shark.

 

1 hour ago, greekmom said:

I was thinking what they could have done instead of the Borg and came up with a mix of the Changelings and a call back to the Eugenics.  What if section 31 was tinkering with that? It would have been a great opportunity to bring in Dr. Bashir.  Oh well... could have, should have, would have. 

It's over.

This was their last chance to go back to the "Conspiracy" bugs. That would have been cool.

[Artsda]

I enjoyed the nostalgia of this episode. The poker game ending was just like old times with all of them.

The original crew just trying to save the world and the scenes in the bridge were great. 

Jack was the weak link. Picard also justifying Beverley's soap opera decision to hide the child forever like Picard was some bad guy. He should not have easily said she was justified. 

Not really wanting a Jack spinoff, but I would with the original crew. 

 

[Francie]

It’s dawned on me that the closest this season had to some sort of meaning, or message, or theme, was this:

The most important relationship in the world is that of a man and his son, and men must be vigilant to protect and support their sons against the women, both domestic and foreign – err, I mean both within their family and outside, who want to keep them apart.

Witness,

Beverly kept Jack from Picard, and robbed him of a son for 34 23 years, although ultimately she was forgiven for this transgression.

Deanna prevented Will from grieving his dead boy son, for which she asked forgiveness, and it was given.

And the two villains were Over-the-Top Amanda, who wanted Jean-Luc’s son, and the borg queen, who also wanted Jean-Luc’s son.

I doubt TM even realizes that’s what he created and what personal issues he may have been working through. And maybe he wasn’t at all.  But stripped away of the nostalgia and the pandering to the male actor’s wishes (Brent wanted the “this is your life” moment for Data and to have him become human; Levar wanted to erase the incel background for Geordie and Michael Dorn wanted to be badass like some character in Kill Bill, and who can blame him), what we’re left with is a story of "boys," or in this case a 30+ year-old man who's treated like a boy  and another boy’s memory, being unjustly and sometimes violently taken away from a good man.

Edited April 22, 2023 by Francie

[Chicago Redshirt]

15 hours ago, marinw said:

What happened to the Enterprise F? Did Worf do something to thst ship too? Can two ships in service have the same name?

So Seven and Jack got through the Acedemy in as year? Starfleet must be very short staffed.

"If Earth falls, the Galaxy falls". Why is Earth so important to the Borg?  I know it was was of the founding worlds of the Federation but wouldn't it have been more *cough* logical to assimilate Vulcan instead?

I thought it was Shelby's ship. But whatever happened to it, it's certainly possible that in the year fast-forward it got blowed up real good.

Starfleet is presumably pretty darn short-staffed. The Borg Millennials killed or incapacitated the large majority of Starfleet staff over 25 serving on ships as part of their takeover.

Seven presumably did not have to go back to the Academy to go from commander to captain. It would have been super-simple for the powers that be to make the flash-forward 3 years, 5 years, even 10 years so that Jack's age more matched with his actor's appearance. 

Federation HQ is on Earth, as are presumably many of the Federation's resources and dignitaries. So given that, Earth is the logical primary target of anyone seeking to take over the Federation.

[TVbitch]

The most hilarious part for me was when Picard hugged the "Borg" out of Jack and Jack starts remembering all their amazing times together as father and son ..such as that time Picard walked up to him, the time Picard looked at him, that other time Picard looked at him, and the one drink they had together. Powerful stuff. 🤣

OMG, they undeaded Q, but not so it could be revealed that Q gave Picard this experience of fatherhood and friendship as a last gift while Picard was on his deathbed or something, but to let us know we are all in for a new show staring Jack as Picard Jr. eating up what I thought would be a 7 of 9 show. 🤮

While I will not be assimilating Picard into my ST memory, I hope the actors were paid well and enjoyed the hell out of themselves and I am forever grateful to them for TNG. I will always just think of Picard as some unfortunate fan fiction Patrick Stewart dreamt up. And as that, I hope it was everything he wanted. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

As a fan of both Picard and Discovery, I wonder why people seem to want to watch something they really don't like?

I wanted to watch Strange New Worlds but when I watched the first one it seemed like I needed to have watched Discovery first. So I forced myself to sit through the first two seasons and then I was able to watch SNW and understand the references. Once Discovery moved into the future I realized I didn't need to watch it anymore, I stopped around episode six of season three. Not sure if I will ever go back to it. It's not a bad show, per se, but it is relentlessly somber and serious as a heart attack. There is just no joy in it whatsoever.

Topic: Can someone take me through the timeline of the Borg Queen? Was the one in this episode the one that Janeway infected in the final episode of Voyager? Wasn't the Borg Queen also destroyed in ST: First Contact? How many Borg Queens have there been and in what order were they destroyed? And am I correct in thinking this season completely ignored the timeline change from last season that made Agnes the new Borg Queen?

[Tachi Rocinante]

Since Alice Krige was only the voice, there were moments where the audio wasn't quite in-sync with the body (a different Jane Seymour) and it was noticeably bad.

I think John DeLancie should be the new host of Jeopardy.