S05.E13: One Big Thing

[ams1001]

10 minutes ago, Katie111 said:

Also, who goes to Haiti these days?  

Fictional characters who have no idea what's actually going on in Haiti right now?

[Suzn]

2 hours ago, Katie111 said:

Charlie looked like a 40 year old.  I stopped it multiple times and couldn’t figure out show she was until I read it here.  They didn’t age the other women at all.  Nor Tyrell or Danny.   Weird that Danny stayed with his boyfriend he had since he was 12 and that Tyrell and Sophie haven’t already had a kid considering they’ve been together for 16 years.  And Greta’s kid only looked about 8, which seems strange as they sounded like they were going to have a kid soon. The aging on everybody just seemed off.  And the hairstyles on everyone were awful. 

That aging was totally unrealistic and it was very unexpected that Danny stayed with the first boyfriend and odd that Tyrell and Sophie waited 16 years to have a baby.  Also apparently Greta waited several years to have a baby.

One other thing bothered me.  The gang gathered at Katherine's while Gary was dying.  I can't imagine that they would be yucking it up waiting for the news that he was dead.  Sure later, they might share their funny stories, but not at that moment.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Suzn

[tennisgurl]

Our very last ride with the co-dependent weirdos ends on a very bitttersweet note and many tears. I think that the last episode got me tearing up more, watching Gary slowly draining away as we kept wondering if he might be alright, while by now I was ready for him to die, but it still really hit me in the gut. I would have been happy if Gary lived, but I can see why they wanted to end this way, starting with a death and ending with one, and it really did feel well done. There was still plenty of silly things, which I will get into later, but for now I really do appreciate how well this episode handled Gary's death. Even the flashforwards, while cheesy, worked for me. I really wish that this show could have found this kind of quality earlier. 

Although I do have to say, what the hell were Eddie and Rome thinking asking Kevin in the middle of the hospital, to give them mercy kill drugs? What did they expect him to say right in the middle of his work? "Oh yes, hello friends! I would love to hand you some illegal drugs to do an illegal thing today, I have them right here in a bad marked Illegal Drugs from Kevin"!

[ams1001]

15 minutes ago, Suzn said:

One other thing bothered me.  The gang gathered at Katherine while Gary was dying.  I can't imagine that they would be yucking it up waiting for the news that he was dead.  Sure later, they might share their funny stories, but not at that moment.

I didn't understand why they weren't down the hall at Eddie and Delilah's. You'd think they'd want to be close by in case Maggie needed them.

Also, when Gina left with the baby, she didn't appear to take anything else with her. Not even a diaper bag?

Edited May 4, 2023 by ams1001

[Cosmocrush]

1 hour ago, Suzn said:

Then they spent time on the ageless wisdom of Theo - amazingly both a baby and an old sage.

Teenage baby Theo was super creepy with his insistence that Eddie assist Gary's suicide.  Also comparing Gary to a murdered bird.  🙄

 

[Brian Cronin]

17 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

 

Also, when Gina left with the baby, she didn't appear to take anything else with her. Not even a diaper bag?

Come on, you know how codependent these people are, Gina obviously has her own stocked closet of baby supplies. 😀

[Clanstarling]

14 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

It sort of went weird with the assisted suicide, but recovered.  It was touching. I thought it was pretty good.  I can’t recall, but did they explain why they didn’t go with Hospice?  

I assumed they had hospice care - when my mother went into hospice, it was at home and the "help" weren't there all the time. It was mostly Dad and me, with a nurse coming regularly and a person to give her a bath. So they could have it without it really factoring into the show.

3 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

My recollection was that he was kept from boarding, and was waiting for the next one when they heard about the plane hitting the tower.

That sounds like what I remember.

2 hours ago, Notabug said:

I was trying to figure out why it was Danny and Sophie buying the casket and why they were doing it in advance of Gary's death.  It's not like there won't be any coffins for sale when he finally goes.  And, its not like that particular coffin had some sort of sentimental value.  Most of the time, it's part of the package with the funeral home.  I guess the writers wanted to tie in the former stewardess to Jon's kids who wouldn't have been there otherwise, but it was an awkward storyline.

We bought Mom's urn before her death. It's a little less fraught that way, and though you are obviously emotional at the time (it was the only time I almost completely lost it in public, due to the costs) you're not as distraught as you would be after the death - when there are SO many things to deal with all at once. 

I wasn't particularly moved by the first half of the show, but then I was choked up the rest of the way. I was, however, a little put off that Grace didn't mention the legality of assisted suicide (which I believe is illegal in Mass, though I could be wrong). So there might be other worries to consider. In my state it is legal, but there is still a lot of paperwork involved, and some benchmarks that need to be met.

I figured the series would bookend deaths, but it didn't occur to me it would bookend two very different suicides.

[Endora]

For the most part I thought it was a good ending as long as Gary had to die.  I cried more during last week’s episode.  I did find Gina’s goodbye and Rome and his Dad very touching.  Delilah just annoys me so no strong emotions there for me.  Agree with some of the comments above, why were they at Katherines where she announces that Gary saw her boobs while Charlie is there chuckling away.  Also agree the aging fast forward seemed off.  Greta appeared to have the same hair style for the last 16 years.  The coffin buying thing seemed weird to me, all so that woman could remember John, which had nothing to do with Gary dying.  I won’t get into Theo because I don’t want to be mean.

[Clanstarling]

39 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

I didn't understand why they weren't down the hall at Eddie and Delilah's. You'd think they'd want to be close by in case Maggie needed them.

I was confused when I recognized it as Grace's place. (I love the entry way with all the coat hooks). I thought that surely they were going to Eddie and Delilah's. It made no real sense.

The "celebration" dinner seemed to be a bit much to have as Gary lay dying. I've certainly attended that kind of celebration after the death (and some do live funerals before the death), but while he's actually killing himself just didn't seem like a time to guffaw.

[Brian Cronin]

The aging thing was super weird, because they mixed in some really good makeup jobs (Rome's was excellent) with almost everyone else just not aging at all. We all know Giuntuli will never age, as he is presumably a beautiful vampire (seriously, look at that dude in Season 1 of Grimm to now. Looks basically the same!), but the others should!

Then there was Katherine. We also all know that Grace Park doesn't age, either (compare her in Season 1 of Hawaii 5-O to now), so they instead decided to make her look like she was doing some alien cosplay! Maybe she was taking her kids with Greta to a comic con?

[tennisgurl]

Theo showing up to tell Eddie to go ahead and kill Gary was really bizarre and kind of creepy. He goes from dinosaur pajamas and chicken nuggets to telling his dad how he needs to assisted suicide one of his best friends because its "the most humane thing to do." What kid would react like that? What kid would so easily understand the complexities of this and be able to articulate it so perfectly? Especially Theo, who usually gets written like he's about five. Its like they can only write him as way older than he is or way younger. I half expected older Theo in the flashforward to still be wearing those footie pajamas. 

Good to know that the Codependent Weirdos have raised Codependent Weirdos: TNG   

Edited May 4, 2023 by tennisgurl

[Suzn]

25 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

The "celebration" dinner seemed to be a bit much to have as Gary lay dying. I've certainly attended that kind of celebration after the death (and some do live funerals before the death), but while he's actually killing himself just didn't seem like a time to guffaw.

Exactly. There they are laughing and having a good time when any minute they will get the call that Gary is dead...and they know that.

3 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Theo showing up to tell Eddie to go ahead and kill Gary was really bizarre and kind of creepy. He goes from dinosaur pajamas and chicken nuggets to telling his day how he needs to assisted suicide one of his best friends because its "the most humane thing to do." What kid would react like that? What kid would so easily understand the complexities of this and be able to articulate it so perfectly? Especially Theo, who usually gets written like he's about five. Its like they can only write him as way older than he is or way younger. I half expected older Theo in the flashforward to still be wearing those footie pajamas.  

It was ridiculous and unbelievable.

[Katie111]

The Bruins game didn't really bother me as I think essentially these kids are all raised like siblings or cousins.  In fact, they're all related in some bizzarre ways..  Theo is now probably a stepbrother to Danny (and they are both half siblings to Charlie).  And Tyrell is a brother-in-law to Danny and a step-brother-in-law to Theo.  Only Javier is not related to them but it seems like they all helped raise him.  Its all really incestuous.  I assume if there was ever a sequel then Charlie and Javier would be married.  

 

Is it just me, or does every kid on TV go to an ivy league school?  It seems like Danny barely went to school as he was bouncing between Boston (to see his 15 year old boyfriend) and France for years so how would he have the extracurricuars and schoolwork for Harvard?  I hate how these shows make it seem like Ivy's are the only schools out there.  

Edited May 4, 2023 by Katie111

[Notabug]

1 hour ago, Katie111 said:

Charlie looked like a 40 year old.  I stopped it multiple times and couldn’t figure out show she was until I read it here.  They didn’t age the other women at all.  Nor Tyrell or Danny.   Weird that Danny stayed with his boyfriend he had since he was 12 and that Tyrell and Sophie haven’t already had a kid considering they’ve been together for 16 years.  And Greta’s kid only looked about 8, which seems strange as they sounded like they were going to have a kid soon. The aging on everybody just seemed off.  And the hairstyles on everyone were awful. 
 

But overall I thought the last few episodes were really good.  Much less stupid plot lines that went nowhere and I was emotional by the end.  Only weird plot line was that Sophie was going to Haiti for the summer but then was going g to Mexico with Gary but it seemed like barely any time had passed.  Also, who goes to Haiti these days?  

In the flash forward, it did appear that Greta and Katherine's daughter was significantly younger than the 15 or so she would've been had they gone forward with a  pregnancy fairly soon after Gary's death since that is when they spoke about it.  If nothing else, presuming Greta is the same age as Cameron Esposito, she is 41, and, even using eggs obtained from her younger self, pregnancy is more likely to be complicated the older a mother is when  she gives birth.  I would've guessed the kid to be maybe 8 years old which would mean that Greta gave birth to her in her late 40's which is physically tough.  
 

Not to mention the fact that Theo was around 13 at the time of the finale.  If they waited as long as it appeared, their daughter would've been born after he was already off to college.  Most parents don't want that kind of gap between children.

[Brian Cronin]

Also, look, I don't want to knock Gary's thought process too much, as he was going through a lot of shit, but making his kid's 16th birthday the cutoff seemed to be kind of ill-considered, no? Why not 18? 21? His college graduation (if he graduates)? His wedding (if he gets married)? His first kid (if he has one)? There seems to be a whole lot of stuff that you'd think Gary would want to tell him beyond just his 16th birthday. 

By the way, the show sure seems to think Gary had Stage IV Lung Cancer, which he didn't, he had Stage IV Breast Cancer that spread to his lungs. It's a very weird thing to get wrong.

[Chanandler Bong]

20 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

It also bugged me that we didn't see Gary hugging baby Javier goodbye before he ended his life. I mean, I feel like that's a thing you would do?

Yes! I loved the finale, but I’m feeling such a lack of closure from that alone. I don’t understand why they didn’t add a quick scene with Gary and Javi before he left. When Gina started walking out the door with the baby I was like, “Wait! What?? No!” As a mom, I’m feeling so unsettled.

Overall it was a beautiful finale. I loved the full circle band of dads moment at the game at the end.

The aging up was a little all over the place — some hadn’t aged at all (Maggie, Eddie). Some had aged 30 years apparently (Rome, Katherine). But whatever — I’ll let it slide.

Eddie and Rome walking into a HOSPITAL and practically saying to Nurse Kevin, “Hey there! Gary said you’d know how to take care of things. You know — assisted suicide…you got anything for that? We’ve heard you’ve done it before.” Read the room, guys.

Theo weighing in on the situation was weird. Or, I guess, perfectly apt for Theo.

Colin just about did me in.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Chanandler Bong

[Notabug]

4 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

Also, look, I don't want to knock Gary's thought process too much, as he was going through a lot of shit, but making his kid's 16th birthday the cutoff seemed to be kind of ill-considered, no? Why not 18? 21? His college graduation (if he graduates)? His wedding (if he gets married)? His first kid (if he has one)? There seems to be a whole lot of stuff that you'd think Gary would want to tell him beyond just his 16th birthday. 

By the way, the show sure seems to think Gary had Stage IV Lung Cancer, which he didn't, he had Stage IV Breast Cancer that spread to his lungs. It's a very weird thing to get wrong.

I figured Gary lost his voice before he got beyond age 16 but it was weird that he said that video was going to be the last one.  Presumably, he should've been able to do several in a day if necessary.

And, yes, Gary had breast cancer metastatic to his lungs, not lung cancer.   Not the same thing at all.  Also, I don't care what the script consultant told them, it is very unlikely for someone with that diagnosis to completely lose their voice days or weeks before death and need to use a whiteboard to communicate.  Often, at the very end, people cannot speak, but that's at the very end and most wouldn't have the strength to write, either.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Notabug

[Brian Cronin]

2 minutes ago, Notabug said:

I figured Gary lost his voice before he got beyond age 16 but it was weird that he said that video was going to be the last one.  Presumably, he should've been able to do several in a day if necessary.

Yeah, it he ran out of time, that'd be totally fine. I'd have no problem with that at all. But the video was clearly still very early in the process (he still had his beard, for instance). He was talking fine well after that point, ya know? 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Brian Cronin
Typo, but I now want the phrase "yak now" to be a thing.

[ams1001]

50 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I assumed they had hospice care - when my mother went into hospice, it was at home and the "help" weren't there all the time. It was mostly Dad and me, with a nurse coming regularly and a person to give her a bath. So they could have it without it really factoring into the show.

Yeah, my aunt had home hospice for her last couple weeks, and a nurse came each day for a few hours. It was only in the last two or three days that someone was there 24/7. The last picture taken of her was on Friday, when she was sitting in a chair with a glass of whiskey, by Saturday she was unresponsive, a bunch of us visited Sunday, and she passed early Monday morning, after everyone had left or gone to bed, so the only one awake was the nurse.

In the last episode, IIRC, Maggie was talking to someone from hospice who suggested getting the hospital bed (she was upset at the idea of not having him in bed with her). So he did have something.

Edited May 4, 2023 by ams1001
forgot to finish my sentence. it's been a long day.

[Katie111]

Did anyone else think Gary looked so completely different without hair and his beard?  I was shocked.  I'm not a fan of beards but he definitely looked so much better with it.    

 

And Greta not changing her hairstyle in 16 years really cracked me up.  It was already out of style in 2023 but yet she kept it for another 16 years?

1 minute ago, ams1001 said:

Yeah, my aunt had home hospice for her last couple weeks, and a nurse came each day for a few hours. It was only in the last two or three days that someone was there 24/7. The last picture taken of her was on Friday, when she was sitting in a chair with a glass of whiskey, by Saturday she was unresponsive, a bunch of us visited Sunday, and she passed early Monday morning, after everyone had left or gone to bed, so the only one awake was the nurse.

In the last episode, IIRC, Maggie was talking to someone from hospice who suggested getting the hospital bed; she. So he did have something.

My mother was on hospice for over a year.  They came a few times a week for an hour or so.  And later on they came once a day.  Even at the end, they were not there more than an hour or two a day.  My mom died with family there but no hospice.   Those people are angels though.  

[cinsays]

2 hours ago, Suzn said:

That aging was totally unrealistic and it was very unexpected that Danny stayed with the first boyfriend and odd that Tyrell and Sophie waited 16 years to have a baby.  Also apparently Greta waited several years to have a baby.

One other thing bothered me.  The gang gathered at Katherine while Gary was dying.  I can't imagine that they would be yucking it up waiting for the news that he was dead.  Sure later, they might share their funny stories, but not at that moment.

yes!  this really bothered me too.......who does that?  

[Notabug]

9 minutes ago, cinsays said:

yes!  this really bothered me too.......who does that?  

Yes, it seemed more like a post-funeral 'celebration of life' dinner or maybe something you'd do on his birthday to remember him.  Sitting around waiting for the call is not the time to be telling funny stories.  I had no problem if they all went to Katherine's because she had more room but Eddie's and Delilah's made more sense logistically.  I presume the producers didn't want to have to pay for a new set for just one episode and that's why it was at Katherine's and Greta's.  

I could see them sitting around quietly, listening to music, maybe Katherine provided some sort of comfort food, but the party atmosphere was jarring.

As for Theo, a couple weeks ago he almost wanted them to do CPR on a bird and demanded they take the thing to a vet to fix it, but, when it comes to Uncle Gary, it's all, hey man, pull the plug.  It was inconsistent for this character and I think even a mature 13 year old would have difficulty understanding, let alone advocating for assisted suicide.

[Brian Cronin]

15 minutes ago, cinsays said:

yes!  this really bothered me too.......who does that?  

In a show filled with stupid nonsense, I thought that that was one of their less egregious problems, because Gary specifically told them that that is what he WANTED, ya know (or, yak now, if you prefer)?  He told Rome and Eddie that he wanted them to do a dinner party where they told jokes when he died. It's weird, but Gary was weird, so I think it made a decent amount of sense (and few things on this show ever made even a decent amount of sense). 

[Cosmocrush]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

Also, when Gina left with the baby, she didn't appear to take anything else with her. Not even a diaper bag?

Heh.  That little thing bugged me way more that it should.  This has always been a sloppy show but aren't there any mothers on set?  

[SunnyBeBe]

I guess my biggest issue is how they ignored the issue of how assisted suicide is still illegal there and what happens if they are charged?  Gary’s request was selfish because he would be gone, but the survivors left behind to hire lawyers, lose jobs, professional licenses, etc,  Who cares for the baby if Maggie goes to prison?  Ok, they have enough friends to step in, I guess, but you get my point. I’m not sure what the prison time is, but any time would be a horrible price to pay, when they could have gotten all the pain meds they wanted from Hospice.  Their goal is to prevent pain.  And, it’s legal.  I suspect this taking his own life ending was somehow supposed to compliment the first major death, where John ended his own life.  I have no issue with what Gary wanted, if it were legal, but if it’s not, it really places loved ones in a precarious situation.  
 

What happens when Theo gives a report at school on the day he and his dad decided to help his uncle die?  
 

 

[snarkylady]

Colin understood.  Theo did not. 

[Cosmocrush]

9 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I guess my biggest issue is how they ignored the issue of how assisted suicide is still illegal there and what happens if they are charged?  Gary’s request was selfish because he would be gone, but the survivors left behind to hire lawyers, lose jobs, professional licenses, etc,  Who cares for the baby if Maggie goes to prison?  Ok, they have enough friends to step in, I guess, but you get my point. I’m not sure what the prison time is, but any time would be a horrible price to pay, when they could have gotten all the pain meds they wanted from Hospice.  Their goal is to prevent pain.  And, it’s legal.  I suspect this taking his own life ending was somehow supposed to compliment the first major death, where John ended his own life.  I have no issue with what Gary wanted, if it were legal, but if it’s not, it really places loved ones in a precarious situation.  
 

What happens when Theo gives a report at school on the day he and his dad decided to help his uncle die?  
 

 

I seriously doubt that anyone is going to open an investigation on their own into the home death of a man with end stage cancer.  Everyone who knew about this loved Gary and respected his wishes.  Although he got professional help getting the right medication, Gary took took it himself.  That's a suicide and there isn't any reason for an outsider to think it was anything but a natural death. 

 

[TivoFan]

Did I miss where they explained the top-secret legal papers Katherine helped Gary with? Why did they air that scene if they weren’t going to refer to it again?

This episode was hard for me to watch because I have Stage IV cancer myself (stable at the moment, but the diagnosis remains). Interestingly, I’ve talked to my husband about this very scenario. However, I felt that Gary acted prematurely. Rome mentioned that he wasn’t eating, but he was still mentally sharp, still able to communicate, still able to make jokes, still able to hold his son, and did not *appear* to be in intense pain. I know I would not be ready to end things at that point. Maybe the writers just didn’t want to show a realistic, messy death from cancer, and that’s understandable, I suppose.

[ams1001]

5 minutes ago, TivoFan said:

Did I miss where they explained the top-secret legal papers Katherine helped Gary with? Why did they air that scene if they weren’t going to refer to it again?

Other than Katherine mentioning that she did all his estate planning, I'm pretty sure it wasn't brought up again.

[Sandman]

1 hour ago, Katie111 said:

Theo is now probably a stepbrother to Danny

And I think he has another stepsister in Greta's daughter (I think we heard her name as "Lana" in the future birthday party scene). I keep double-checking in my head that there's no way Sophie and Tyrell are related (except possibly by marriage, in the end).

16 minutes ago, TivoFan said:

I felt that Gary acted prematurely. Rome mentioned that he wasn’t eating, but he was still mentally sharp, still able to communicate, still able to make jokes, still able to hold his son, and did not *appear* to be in intense pain. ... Maybe the writers just didn’t want to show a realistic, messy death from cancer, and that’s understandable, I suppose.

I think it was fairly clear that talking was painful or exhausting for Gary (and I've known people with end-stage lung cancer who experienced this), but for the most part, I think you're right: I think the writers (including Roday Rodriguez, I'm guessing) deliberately did not show the messiest possibilities -- even if that choice failed to mark the urgency they tried to establish as driving Gary's wish for medical assistance in dying.

[Katie111]

16 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Other than Katherine mentioning that she did all his estate planning, I'm pretty sure it wasn't brought up again.

I agree.  I though there would be some twist at the end with what his dying wishes were.

 

I also thought it was selfish of him to want to go at that point.  He could still hold his baby and communicate.  Why wouldn't he want to hold his baby as long as he could?  And he didn't seem to be in much pain.  Maggie even had him out in the wheelchair that day so he was still able to get outside.  It seemed like a selfish time to do it.  And also a difficult thing to make your friends do for you.  I understand wanting to do it, but it just didn't seem like the right time. 

[Suzn]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I guess my biggest issue is how they ignored the issue of how assisted suicide is still illegal there and what happens if they are charged?  Gary’s request was selfish because he would be gone, but the survivors left behind to hire lawyers, lose jobs, professional licenses, etc,  Who cares for the baby if Maggie goes to prison?  Ok, they have enough friends to step in, I guess, but you get my point. I’m not sure what the prison time is, but any time would be a horrible price to pay, when they could have gotten all the pain meds they wanted from Hospice.  Their goal is to prevent pain.  And, it’s legal.  I suspect this taking his own life ending was somehow supposed to compliment the first major death, where John ended his own life.  I have no issue with what Gary wanted, if it were legal, but if it’s not, it really places loved ones in a precarious situation.  
 

What happens when Theo gives a report at school on the day he and his dad decided to help his uncle die?  

Gary could have/should have had the medication on hand when he was still able to get it and not involved his friends or Maggie.  He could have left video and/or a letter about his plans and left others out of it.  There probably wasn't much danger that the death would be investigated and anyone charged, but it was not a no-risk thing either.

[SunnyBeBe]

Ref, the assisted suicide.  I’m not sure how likely prosecution is, but there is the possibility.  Apparently, if a doctor does it, it’s voluntary manslaughter, which is serious.  
 

Spoiler

https://www.wbur.org/news/2022/12/19/massachusetts-constitution-ruling-physician-assisted-suicide

 

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I guess my biggest issue is how they ignored the issue of how assisted suicide is still illegal there and what happens if they are charged?  Gary’s request was selfish because he would be gone, but the survivors left behind to hire lawyers, lose jobs, professional licenses, etc,  Who cares for the baby if Maggie goes to prison?

I think if no one complains, no one is going to do an autopsy and people will just assume he died related to the cancer.  

[Trillian]

4 hours ago, Suzn said:

One other thing bothered me.  The gang gathered at Katherine's while Gary was dying.  I can't imagine that they would be yucking it up waiting for the news that he was dead.  Sure later, they might share their funny stories, but not at that moment.

 

1 hour ago, Notabug said:

Yes, it seemed more like a post-funeral 'celebration of life' dinner or maybe something you'd do on his birthday to remember him.  Sitting around waiting for the call is not the time to be telling funny stories.  I had no problem if they all went to Katherine's because she had more room but Eddie's and Delilah's made more sense logistically.  I presume the producers didn't want to have to pay for a new set for just one episode and that's why it was at Katherine's and Greta's.  

I could see them sitting around quietly, listening to music, maybe Katherine provided some sort of comfort food, but the party atmosphere was jarring.

My first thought when they went to the dinner scene was that they spared us the death scene and had gone right to the wake. I kept looking around for Maggie, wondering where she was. When I realized that they were yucking it up at the exact moments when he was dying, I was, well - disgusted actually.  I got over it shortly because the death and the final montage were beautifully done, but, wow that dinner scene was jarring. 
 

[Frisky Wig]

3 hours ago, Katie111 said:

Did anyone else think Gary looked so completely different without hair and his beard?  I was shocked.  I'm not a fan of beards but he definitely looked so much better with it.    

 

And Greta not changing her hairstyle in 16 years really cracked me up.  It was already out of style in 2023 but yet she kept it for another 16 years?

Yes, Gary did look very different without his hair and beard! 
 

Your comment about Greta reminded me of Anna Wintour, editor-in-chief at Vogue, who’s had the same bob haircut for about 40 years now. 
 

In a non-hair-related topic, I really liked how future Maggie (and Javi) had another mastiff! 

[historylover820]

So, some thoughts, some defenses, some criticisms -- 

1. Gary's "top-secret" legal work:

I really think it's the estate planning that Catherine mentioned to Eddie in this episode. She shouldn't have even told Eddie that, because of attorney-client privilege and confidentiality laws. And why not have something super secret that's mundane? That was more for the audience than anything.

2. Hair not changing.

Heh. This is off-topic, but this is the first thing I thought of--

There's an early, early, early Best Picture Oscar winner, I think from 1932, called Cimarron. I've seen it, although I can't remember when this movie came out, and it's a bad movie. Really, watch it among people whose tastes bend to bad movies and have a few drinks. You'll have a ball with it. But, the main character, who is overplayed by a silent movie actor, has a bad haircut. Just awful haircut. He not only keeps this hair cut for like 40 years from when the movie started until when the movie ends, but he passes the bad haircut to his son! I mean, it has to be in the son's genetics, because Daddy is gone exploring for most of the movie and is not around to inflict his bad taste in hair onto his son. Yet, his son has the exact same hairstyle!

That's kind of what all this bad hair talk reminds me of.

I laughed at the above poster mentioning that David Guintoli is probably a vampire because he doesn't age. You're not lying. So, I was tickled at seeing him looking exactly the same "15 years later."

3. The dinner scene:

I may be mistaken, and that's extremely possible, but my mind decided that the dinner scene was actually taking place after Gary died. I know usually when scenes are cross-cut like that, they're supposed to be happening simultaneously, but I was reading that the dinner scene was sometime after, like days or weeks, after Gary's death. Maybe even after Gary's funeral. 

But, Gary would have liked the gang to tell funny stories about him while he died. But, in my head, it wasn't happening at the same time. After all, this episode was full of time skips, so I'm happy to believe that this was also a time skip.

Again, I could be completely wrong.

4. The coffin scene.

Didn't need it. Didn't need a bizarre closure of Jon not being able to get a flight on 9/11. Didn't need to know that Sophie was named after the flight attendant. But, I think most people who know they're going to die will plan for getting a coffin. Heck, I think a lot of people do purchase a coffin if they're planning their own funerals! I don't think they necessarily want to leave it up to grieving family and friends. Why add more stress? 

5. Theo's ageless wisdom

Assisted suicide is a nuanced topic for adults. There's a lot of factors to it, a lot of points of view. It's not a black and white issue. It's gray and charcoal. So, if adults can't wrap their minds around it and successfully argue pro and con, a 13 year old would NOT be able to understand.

I'm not saying that 13 year olds aren't intelligent or anything. But, if adults can't wrap their minds around it, with more experiences with nuanced topics, a 13 year old wouldn't be able to.

6. Sophie being pregnant after 16 years.

I didn't get the feeling that this was Sophie's first child. Was there dialogue I missed saying it was her first?

7. Danny being with his high school boyfriend

I know people who are married to their high school sweethearts. I'm OK with it.

8. Javi going to the Bruins game with Danny, Tyrell, and Theo

Man, I hope he has high school friends. But, I'm OK with him going to a game with his "cousins." Even if they're quite a bit older than him, they probably helped raise him. But, yeah, I hope he has high school friends.

9. Gary's videos not continuing past Javi's 16th birthday

Yeah, that's weird. He was obviously still healthy at that final video. Had a full head of hair and a healthy beard. There really should be a video for high school graduation, getting his driver's license, getting a girlfriend. A later video about having a child and a baby. Even maybe a later video about marriage. Obviously that video is not the last filmed, because last week, he was filming a video about how to shave. So, yeah, that was weird.

10. Rome and Eddie being stupid

Yeah, I've already talked about this briefly. They're stupid. 😄

[KaveDweller]

18 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I didn’t fully understand the scene with the sales lady who was talking to Sophie and there was a flashback that she was the airline rep who kept John off the 9/11 flight.  Did she realize who they were or was that scene just for the benefit of the viewers?   

I don't see how she could have realized for sure who she was. Maybe she just remembered meeting Jon and wonder if there was a connection?

I don't remember the details, but I don't think Jon ever told the flight attendant he named his daughter after her.

14 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

Yeah, it clearly didn't make any sense that the buddy group was a 34/35 year old, a 36/37 year old, a 28/29 year old and a...16 year old.

It doesn't make sense for them to be a buddy group, but I can buy them going to a game once and awhile as a "family" thing. Tyrell and Danny are in laws, and Danny and Theo are essentially stepbrothers) so I can buy would hang out and decide to invite Javi to a game out of respect for Gary.

3 hours ago, Notabug said:

In the flash forward, it did appear that Greta and Katherine's daughter was significantly younger than the 15 or so she would've been had they gone forward with a  pregnancy fairly soon after Gary's death since that is when they spoke about it.  If nothing else, presuming Greta is the same age as Cameron Esposito, she is 41, and, even using eggs obtained from her younger self, pregnancy is more likely to be complicated the older a mother is when  she gives birth.  I would've guessed the kid to be maybe 8 years old which would mean that Greta gave birth to her in her late 40's which is physically tough.  

Maybe the implication was that Greta had trouble conceiving?

[Notabug]

Article discussing the end of the series 

JRR talks about writing the episode and he was insistent that Colin be right there.  JRR is known to be a dog lover, he apparently suggested Gary get a dog and it be a mastiff in the early days, so no surprise there.

Quote

 it was important to me that Colin the dog be as close to Gary at all times. So getting him up in that hospital bed and, always in the bed, wherever Gary was, Colin was, felt real to me.

JRR also said he wrote the fart jokes with Gary and Delilah, which, having been a fan of Psych, does not surprise me.

Also info on various 'Easter eggs' in the last scenes, giving hints about various characters in the story.

https://deadline.com/2023/05/a-million-little-things-series-finale-postmortem-qa-james-roday-rodriguez-gary-flash-forward-easter-eggs-dj-nash-1235351305/?ref=upstract.com

[marceline]

This show has always been a hot mess but I'm going to point out the things I think they did right in the episode:

• The discussion of assisted suicide/end of life care - we need to talk more openly about both issues
• Rome's conversation with his father - Rome: "Hey dad, don't forget to take your pills." Rome's dad: "Don't you forget to take yours." As someone on anti-depressants, that hit me in my feels.
• Theo - Stick with me here for a second. They didn't write him as five year old. He was somewhat age-appropriate and they tied it back to the conversation at the vet.
• The music in this episode.

Things I didn't like:

Rome and Eddie asking Kevin for drug in front of everyone. That was stupid and wrong. It's a perfect example of of the thing that's bothered me a lot about this show and it's how these Codependent Weirdoes run roughshod over everyone and completely ignore the fact that they could be fucking up someone else's life.

Whatever my issues with this show, I think its done a LOT to broaden discussion around mental health and suicide and that's a good thing.

[Trillian]

13 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

18 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I didn’t fully understand the scene with the sales lady who was talking to Sophie and there was a flashback that she was the airline rep who kept John off the 9/11 flight.  Did she realize who they were or was that scene just for the benefit of the viewers?   

I don't see how she could have realized for sure who she was. Maybe she just remembered meeting Jon and wonder if there was a connection?

C’mon now. Be fair. Dixon?  Super rare name. The kind of name that sticks with you forever, especially when you interact with hundreds of people per day and had only a fleeting interaction. Sophie?  Even rarer name. And you’d never ever say “I knew a John Dixon once (for about 5 minutes). Any relation by chance?”
 

Remember, on this show, Boston only has a population of something like 53 people, so you’re bound to run across the same people and connections constantly.

[circumvent]

6 hours ago, Suzn said:

I guess I'm all alone on this.  No tears. I found it excruciatingly slow and tedious.  They dragged out the death and spent time on the idiocy of Rome and Eddie openly asking for illegal drugs and the nonsense of Sophie and Danny buying a coffin.  Then they spent time on the ageless wisdom of Theo - amazingly both a baby and an old sage.

I would have liked to have the flash forward last longer.  I couldn't take it all in and will need to re-watch that part.

You are not alone. I found it boring and forced, like a Hallmark movie.

I don't understand why Gary wasn't speaking. My father wasn't speaking in his final months because he had a tracheotomy. He had trouble breathing. Gary had none of those symptoms. Do they think not speaking makes it more dramatic? It was just irritating to me. The man seemed strong and alert until the last minute

I agree with the nonsense to eat up the time of the episode. Not surprised, the writers never had much to say anyway. 

Rome's father went to the assisted living place because he had Alzheimer's. That was before Javi was born. Gary died what, a few months after the kid's first birthday. Walter seemed cured. His dementia didn't progress at all, after at least a yer and an half. And he was pretty bad, not able to live alone, disappearing to go "pick up Rome from school". Yeah, right.

Didn't care for the flash forward. Bad wigs and improbable outcomes for the lives of those people. Maggie talking on the grave after 15 years - not sixteen if Javi was turning 16, Gary died when he was one - was a bit much to swallow (personally, it is a peeve)

I hate when TV does assisted killing because they don't ever use the nuanced, complicated issues surrounding it. It is always the "dignity" thing. There is no actual counter point, only someone who is against but cannot present the case. I am not advocating one way or another but TV can be educative, or dis-educative. This episode was the latter. It was also glorifying lawbreaking for the sake of one person, and one person only. Writing Theo as the voice of reason was disgusting. A kid should not be shown to be the one who knows what's best in this case involving imminent death and lawbreaking. Besides, the writing did not match the acting: "Gary is suffering, he is in pain". Well, I didn't see suffering or pain, just bad mute acting. And he didn't need anyone to prepare the cocktail for him. he was able to sit up, able to eat and drink, all they had to do was to leave the pills next to him, he would have taken them. No need for people to get so involved. I am not sure about something else: when people die in hospice care, there is no autopsy. It is all already documented and they know that it will happen. If Gary wasn't in hospice care, would they do an autopsy? I believe they would, otherwise, assisted suicide would be impossible to regulate. But that, too, is consistent with this show's plots. Incoherent and inconsistent.

Good bye show, your overstayed your welcome, you will not be missed.

[Aileen]

9 hours ago, munchiewoman said:

I didn't remember that he should have been on one of the flights.  I thought maybe that was it, but it didn't make sense because they're trying to tell me he missed a flight and was still there when it went down?  That makes NO sense whatsoever.  Plus, these people all have money based on their lifestyle and Danny is going to try to sob story a COFFIN SALESWOMAN?  Come ON!

And Rome and Eddie... Asking someone to do something illegal loudly, in front of everyone?  Seriously?  They're not that stupid.

Having said all that, I pretty much ugly cried all through this.  Unlike some, I've always loved Gary.  My cat was on my shoulder and I actually sobbed out loud when told Javi to have a beautiful life.  My cat looked at me kind of alarmed.

Poor Colin.

Sniff.

 

He was supposed to be on the flight that crashed. He had survivors guilt that led to his suicide.

[Notabug]

Quote

Gary wasn't in hospice care, would they do an autopsy? I believe they would, otherwise, assisted suicide would be impossible to regulate. But that, too, is consistent with this show's plots. Incoherent and inconsistent.

As a general rule, if someone dies outside of the hospital or within 24 hours of admission, they are a 'coroner's case'.  That means a detailed report goes to the coroner and he/she decides if an autopsy is warranted or if the cause of death is obvious.

In the case of someone like Gary, who was under the care of an oncologist and in hospice care; the coroner would call his doctor and ask if in his opinion, Gary was terminal and if Gary's doctor was willing to sign the death certificate with cancer as the cause of death.  In the case of hospice patients, this is routine and no big deal.  There were no obvious signs of foul play, no one is going to step forward and question the death.  Gary's doctor will tell the coroner he was terminal and he will sign the death certificate and the body will be released to a funeral home.  Easy peasy.

What would happen is that, after Gary died, Maggie would've been instructed to call the hospice office and talk to the nurse on call who would come out to the house to verify the death.  He or she usually will bathe and dress the deceased and assist the family in spending time if they want.  He or she will also notify the doctor on call for hospice and the attending physician as well as the coroner's office.  They handle all the details, the body is usually released directly to a funeral home which will come and collect it within a couple hours. 

Do I think a lot of oncologists and hospice docs are well aware of assisted suicide and there are times they are concerned that perhaps the dead person took an overdose?  Of course, but I've never heard of anyone reporting it, they let it go. They certainly don't order toxicology testing or anything like that.  They see lots of death, they understand.

Unless there is obvious evidence of foul play like a gunshot wound, a stabbing etc; no one will know.  The cases of assisted suicide that go to the cops usually occur when a close family member or friend disagrees with the plan and calls the police.  Even then, the investigation tends to be pretty cursory and it would be unlikely that charges would be filed.

I do wish Regina's POV had been addressed more completely and also wish we'd gotten more information about why it was Gary was ready to go.  Yes, he couldn't speak, but he didn't seem to be in much pain, and was even out in the wheelchair shortly before dying.  People with lung metastases often have trouble breathing and need extra oxygen, that hadn't even happened.  In the article I linked above, the producer said Gary had 'maybe 6 weeks' to live.  First, no one can predict that.  Second, 6 weeks is a lot of time when you're only 40ish and have a 1 year old child.  

Edited May 4, 2023 by Notabug

[debraran]

I agree, re the assisted suicide, they did it explore some political fodder.  They knew MA was illegal and Gary might have been in a lot of pain but they do have legal drugs that "snow" people. Some people stockpile meds at home, others go places where it is legal. I just don't like the suicide bookend, but that's a personal thing.  They made Rome and Eddie way too dumb. I also didn't want to see Gary like many cancer patients on TV and in real life, where they are frail and thin and sleep a lot. He just seemed unable to speak as stated and way too much joking and ability to make others laugh to be that ready to go. Why not want every second to see his son and wife? Was he in pain then beyond what he could handle? Did it go to his bones?  I've never heard of not speaking unless it was throat etc. but gladly don't have too much experience there. 

The dog I knew would kill me. I wasn't watching much but wanted to see if they brought Colin and then the tears came, just couldn't cry before.

Edited May 5, 2023 by debraran

[Aileen]

I can only reconcile the death dinner being at Katherine’s because she was the one who had the most knowledge of the assisted suicide other than Eddie and Rome. She wasn’t still in shock about it like Delilah or Gina.

I assumed we saw Gary sign the will with Katherine (and it was labeled as such) as a way to show that he had come to terms with dying but to keep this from Maggie as she still had hope for a cure.

[nichelle]

9 hours ago, Notabug said:

I was trying to figure out why it was Danny and Sophie buying the casket and why they were doing it in advance of Gary's death.  It's not like there won't be any coffins for sale when he finally goes.  And, its not like that particular coffin had some sort of sentimental value.  Most of the time, it's part of the package with the funeral home.  I guess the writers wanted to tie in the former stewardess to Jon's kids who wouldn't have been there otherwise, but it was an awkward storyline.

 

JRR wrote a lot of episodes for Psych, often along with that show's producer, so I guess it's become a tradition for him.  He seems to be a very talented writer.  Psych was a completely different show, and, yet, he wrote well for that, too.

First, I haven't watched the final two episodes. I went through a period of loss during a short period (father, mother, then only sibling) so I'm just not in the headspace to watch. However, I appreciated reading the comments particularly after (sort of) watching this for years. I wish I'd been reading here along because it's good to meet others who share my loathing of Theo.

Anyway, regarding the casket. When we brought my father home from the hospital to spend his last days at home, I went to the funeral home and made arrangements. It might seem weird. But I'm usually in some form of control and 'managing'  or at least contributing. And this was one of the very few situations in which I could control absolutely nothing. My brain needed to feel like I was doing something, helping, just anything. So, I made the arrangements, selected the casket, picked flowers, etc. I felt like I had done something.. and ultimately it helped.

[ams1001]

12 minutes ago, Aileen said:

I assumed we saw Gary sign the will with Katherine (and it was labeled as such) as a way to show that he had come to terms with dying but to keep this from Maggie as she still had hope for a cure.

Which still doesn't really make sense. Even if there was some hope, he should have written his will at least when he was told he was terminal in the first place. Also, they have a baby together; even if he wasn't sick, they both should have had wills and a plan for Javi in case something happened to them. Actuary Gary, of all people, should know this.

[Winston Wolfe]

Now that I've had a full day to process the finale, it really was moving, even with some of AMLT's typical "wtf" moments. Even with all the snark we've been doing for the last five years, I really AM going to miss the co-dependent weirdos. And...the finale clearly evoked some strong sentiments and thoughts here on the boards...

Never saw the assisted suicide thing coming. But when you think about it, the move was totally consistent with Gary's character. Being the rugged individualist, he wanted to go out on his own terms. Excellent writing choice. Btw, I had no idea that JRR was also a scriptwriter. My respect for him grows by leaps and bounds, even though I had no use for his Psych character.

2 hours ago, historylover820 said:

I may be mistaken, and that's extremely possible, but my mind decided that the dinner scene was actually taking place after Gary died. I know usually when scenes are cross-cut like that, they're supposed to be happening simultaneously, but I was reading that the dinner scene was sometime after, like days or weeks, after Gary's death. Maybe even after Gary's funeral. 

But, Gary would have liked the gang to tell funny stories about him while he died. But, in my head, it wasn't happening at the same time. After all, this episode was full of time skips, so I'm happy to believe that this was also a time skip.

That was my take too. It was really like a wake, where friends and loved ones get together before or after a funeral and share memories and funny stories about the departed. Time jumps aside, it was actually one of the show's better moments.

IMO, the last two episodes were exactly what this show should have been, but it lost its way early on and never recovered. Maybe the problem was trying to be "This Is Us," Nash might have been better served by making his own road.

The Finale brought us, and the Show, full circle. It began with one of the core male friends making the decision to end his own life and it ended the same way. Now only Eddie and Rome remain from the original buddies, but given the finale, it looks like they're going to be alright, which is what we want.

So long to the psycho, co-dependent weirdos.  I'm actually going to miss them.  And you guys here on the Boards too!

[KaveDweller]

3 hours ago, Trillian said:

C’mon now. Be fair. Dixon?  Super rare name. The kind of name that sticks with you forever, especially when you interact with hundreds of people per day and had only a fleeting interaction. Sophie?  Even rarer name. And you’d never ever say “I knew a John Dixon once (for about 5 minutes). Any relation by chance?”

I originally had the same thought, but then I remembered that they met on 9/11. If I was a flight attendant and had to forcibly stop someone from getting on one of the planes that then hit the twin towers, I would probably remember them and their name. It wasn't just a fleeting interaction on a random day, it was a pretty impactful interaction on a day most people remember well.

Now, assuming that any Dixon she meets is connected to Jon is kind of crazy.

2 hours ago, Notabug said:

I do wish Regina's POV had been addressed more completely and also wish we'd gotten more information about why it was Gary was ready to go.  Yes, he couldn't speak, but he didn't seem to be in much pain, and was even out in the wheelchair shortly before dying.  People with lung metastases often have trouble breathing and need extra oxygen, that hadn't even happened.  In the article I linked above, the producer said Gary had 'maybe 6 weeks' to live.  First, no one can predict that.  Second, 6 weeks is a lot of time when you're only 40ish and have a 1 year old child.  

I feel like the show didn't do a great job showing how much pain Gary was supposedly in. They had people mention it, but other than losing his hair, Gary didn't look super weak or in pain. I am sure that people that sick are suffering a lot, but all we had to base that on was Gary saying (in a flashback) he knew he'd be in a lot of pain at the end.