S03.E06: Part Six - The Bounty

[tv-talk]

I thought it was great episode, the scene with Worf and the former lovers is absolutely top5 in Trek history- Michael Dorn is so great, Worf's evolution from grunting brute initially to his current self makes him top5 in Trek lore for me. 

[norcalgal]

4 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Despite its flaws, I'm still not really surprised that there has been more positive responses elsewhere and I don't think it's just better marketing.  Nostalgia really can be a hell of a drug and I think having the original Next Generation crew back really has pleased fans in ways the other seasons haven't.  Hell, even knowing this, I can't deny that seeing Patrick Stewart interact with his old cast/friends again does bring a different energy to the proceedings that I find extremely enjoyable.  

Although I too am enjoying this TNG reunion of the actors, there’s too many plot holes for me to enjoy the storylines of S3. I think beyond the nostalgia factor, maybe the people who are effusive in their praise of this season are doing so because they’re comparing S3 to the absolute dreck that was S2. 

[Cthulhudrew]

13 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

Facts.  I thought that Picard buried Kirk under some rocks on a hilltop in Generations, but I guess that burial was just for the picturesque Instagram “RIP” shot, since I guess Kirk’s remains are with JLP’s now.

Maybe Shatner's going to show up by the end and really kick the memberberries into nostalgia heaven.

Also, I don't know what they intend with Picard's corpse my guess is something like what was hinted at above, a Borg connection. Maybe they want Picard's corpse and whatever Borg-tech got passed along to his son to use to create a weaponized "hive mind" that will connect everyone in the cosmos to the Dominion hivemind forever? Or create a new one to replace the Odo contaminated one? (I really don't remember exactly how the Dominion War ended).

I can't help but think they'd have been better off stealing the Genesis device and just blowing up Starfleet planets with it, though.

[paigow]

20 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I can't help but think they'd have been better off stealing the Genesis device and just blowing up Starfleet planets with it, though.

Somebody built a new one without taking a shortcut like Kirk Jr???? So the new planets might last a few years before turning into Praxis???

[rtms77]

Once again Beverly , a doctor completely misses her son was sick. Given what she found out at the end of TNG, you would think she would at least annually scan Jack to see if he had the same disease JL did. But no she chalks it up youthful energy?  It also does not explain how he took down those Changlings so easy. 

Pfft Worf is not a pacifist, if he was he wouldn’t be in Starfleet, especially undercover intelligence. I think Worf is just using that as an excuse because he unsure what he wants to do. I m thinking he’s going to be the one who dies in a blaze of glory. 

Ok 7 going over the various old ships especially voyager was nice, but I swear if they spin-off with JC as a captain or as first officer to 7 of 9 when he has done nothing to deserve it, I will scream. 

I have to agree with others, surely the museum had more recent cloaking device, heck at this point every starship should have the schematics of it. The Romulans are no longer a threat therefore the treaty should be null and void, not to mention the Feds had yrs with the Klingon allies to look at their cloaking devices. There should be no reason why Starfleet doesn’t have them or use them.

I am impressed that all starships are now interconnected. 

So the two Starfleet ships were completely taken over by changlings? Or they left and Vadic moved in? That sequence did not make sense. If the former, how many ships are taken over? And if so why wait for Frontier Day, they already have the fleet. This is more than a few renegade changlings. And we get confirmation that Vadic is full changling.

I guess they don’t have the budget to de-age Data so went with Synth type body. of course since Data is gone, Daystrom station was left completely unprotected again. 

[rtms77]

2 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Maybe Shatner's going to show up by the end and really kick the memberberries into nostalgia heaven.

Also, I don't know what they intend with Picard's corpse my guess is something like what was hinted at above, a Borg connection. Maybe they want Picard's corpse and whatever Borg-tech got passed along to his son to use to create a weaponized "hive mind" that will connect everyone in the cosmos to the Dominion hivemind forever? Or create a new one to replace the Odo contaminated one? (I really don't remember exactly how the Dominion War ended).

I can't help but think they'd have been better off stealing the Genesis device and just blowing up Starfleet planets with it, though.

If the Changlings wanted Borg tech, there was a huge Cube 2 seasons ago they could have hijacked. Not to mention 7 of 9 would be a much better person to capture since she was far more integrated with the Borg, I mean she took control of the cube in season 1. If anyone has genetic material of value she would have it. JL was only a Borg for a few days? A week at most?  Not to mention 7’s technology was superior to anything JL had. It just doesn’t make sense.

[Prevailing Wind]

Maybe it has something to do with Irumodic Syndrome - they want Jack & they have the JLP remains. Maybe they want to infect ALL the solids with it in revenge for Section 31's attempted genocide of the Great Link.

 

4 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

(I really don't remember exactly how the Dominion War ended).

The Dominion War ended when the Cardassians turned on the Founders & Odo cured Lady Founder by linking with her & apparently, while linked, she realized how heinous her crimes were, confessed, signed a treaty, and was ready to stand trial. Odo went back to Home Planet & cured the Great Link.

Whatever they have against JLP & Son makes no sense - it's Sisko & The Prophets they should be pissed at.

[cambridgeguy]

12 hours ago, Ottis said:

They are doing well with the fan service. The rest is inconsistent. One thing that puzzles me about Picard the show is its Data fetish. I have watched ST for 50 years, including all of TNG. Data was a main character but IMO was way down the pecking order. This show always seems to reveal him like the way ST:TMP revealed the Enterprise in dry dock.

He’s been treated as the second most important TNG character ever since the movies started.  Generations spent a lot of time on his emotion chip and subsequent shenanigans, FC let him go one on one with the Borg Queen, etc.  

11 hours ago, ChitChat said:

Mr. Chat is rewatching the old Lost In Space episodes and we shake our heads as the women on that show were relegated to cleaning the ship and fixing the meals.  Sigh.

TOS had the same problem.  Uhura was a receptionist and Rand was there to serve drinks and give Kirk someone to comfort in stressful situations.  Roddenberry was quite sexist, which is why we never saw Uhura in command even if everyone else was on an away mission.

Edited March 24, 2023 by cambridgeguy

[Cattoy]

2 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

He’s been treated as the second most important TNG character ever since the movies started.  Generations spent a lot of time on his emotion chip and subsequent shenanigans, FC let him go one on one with the Borg Queen, etc. 

Data was popular, Spiner knew it and the producers were afraid to challenge him. He refused to do the movies unless he was made the major character. Stewart was also in full-ego mode, so they were the only actors to get decent parts. The movies suffered for it.

[Chicago Redshirt]

9 hours ago, Tyro49 said:

Tribble always reacted that way to Klingons; we just never saw it from that angle before.

I think in DS9's Trials and Tribble-ations, Worf said that the Klingons had exterminated all Tribbles in his time. The notion that Section 31 still retained a Tribble should be shocking. And the Tribbles we had seen sort of recoiled in the presence of Klingons. This one seemed like it was wanting to attack. 

8 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

Even our MVP Worf had to say some clunkers, such as that Data wasn’t “guarding the manifest, he is the manifest!” (so hackneyed) and “I will find him, Admiral.  I will bring William Riker home.”  (Who talks like that?)

I'd say Worf does, mostly. If I were to revise the line, it would be "I will find him, Admiral. I will bring Captain Riker home."

But then I wasn't bothered by the "he is the manifest" line either. 

[Cattoy]

7 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I think in DS9's Trials and Tribble-ations, Worf said that the Klingons had exterminated all Tribbles in his time. The notion that Section 31 still retained a Tribble should be shocking. And the Tribbles we had seen sort of recoiled in the presence of Klingons. This one seemed like it was wanting to attack.

The crew of the Defiant brought tribbles back with them at the end of "Trials and Tribble-ations" although it was never said it if was an accident or on purpose. Quark's bar was overrun with them.

The tribble at Daystrom had a sign that said it was genetically modified, hence the reason it was different from prior tribbles.

[cardigirl]

9 hours ago, tv-talk said:

I thought it was great episode, the scene with Worf and the former lovers is absolutely top5 in Trek history- Michael Dorn is so great, Worf's evolution from grunting brute initially to his current self makes him top5 in Trek lore for me. 

Thank you! I am thoroughly enjoying this season of Picard, and I thought this episode was great. I guess that makes me a "memberberry." So be it.  I loved the Attack Tribble, all the nostalgic touches, and I'm someone whose memory of the other series is cloudy at best. 

As for overly aged Jack, I like the actor. He played a thoroughly bad guy in Outlander, but he did it well. I'm not sure what the plan is for this character, but I'll watch Ed Speleers because he's great. 

As for poor Will, why would Deanna greet him like that after being taken prisoner or seeing him beat up?  Seemed like a muted response at best. We shall see. 

I didn't care for Season 2 much, I liked Season 1 but tease my sister all the time that JLP is a robot. 🤣 I think this episode just proved me right. 🤖

[tv-talk]

5 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

One thing that puzzles me about Picard the show is its Data fetish. I have watched ST for 50 years, including all of TNG. Data was a main character but IMO was way down the pecking order.

Idk, I think Data rose up the order quite a bit over the years. The character was the equivalent of Spock and hugely popular as the series went on, had many storylines of his own between Lor and Sing and all that. Then he was huge in the movies. I am inerested to see if they are going to have his multi-personality issue stay with him for the rest of the episodes or if he'll become Data again as he was when he first re-booted. I was actually surprised they didn't do more nostalgia with that given Data was very close to the crew and had saved everyone countless times, they had real affection for him.

[Prevailing Wind]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I think in DS9's Trials and Tribble-ations, Worf said that the Klingons had exterminated all Tribbles in his time. The notion that Section 31 still retained a Tribble should be shocking

The DS9 folks DID bring back a tribble or two that overrun Quark's bar. I know they didn't tell the temporal inspectors - the Mulder & Scully parodies - but that doesn't mean Section 31 didn't find out & "preserve" one.  How did they only keep it to one?

[cambridgeguy]

3 minutes ago, tv-talk said:

I am inerested to see if they are going to have his multi-personality issue stay with him for the rest of the episodes or if he'll become Data again as he was when he first re-booted. I was actually surprised they didn't do more nostalgia with that given Data was very close to the crew and had saved everyone countless times, they had real affection for him.

He might become just Data at the end, but the multiple personalities (especially Lore) are pretty much guaranteed to stay with him because they're going to mine drama about whether or not he can be trusted.  It also gives them an out if people start bitching about how he's not acting like Data, because he's got all of those other parts mixed in.

[Chit Chat]

7 hours ago, rtms77 said:

I think Worf is just using that as an excuse because he unsure what he wants to do. I m thinking he’s going to be the one who dies in a blaze of glory. 

A calmer, more thoughtful Worf.  Chamomile tea, anyone? 

[tv-talk]

6 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

Chamomile tea, anyone? 

That was hilarious, almost as good as the I have gone to battle with ex-lovers thing. I sure hope they dont kill Worf off at the end, if anyone should go at this point it's Picard. I suspect though Data will die for the 1,238th time saving everyone.

[Chyromaniac]

5 hours ago, dwmarch said:

Daystrom Station is weird. Is it a research lab or a museum? Why are these important pieces of secret technology on display with convenient signs posted so the enemies know what to steal? Why guards that come and go on a schedule? Why use some Frankenstein version of Data for defense? Why did Moriarty miss when he was shooting at them and why were the guards so disorganized? The place got broken into recently!

I know Data can be literal sometimes but instead of saying JEAN LUC PICARD over and over again, why does he not say YOUR CORPSE instead? And if you can make some special sauce of Picard's remains, why would you leave James T. Kirk behind? Genesis 2.0 seems like it would be a more effective weapon than a portal device too.

Daystrom is the “Indiana Jones warehouse”/Area 51 - it’s where Section 31 sticks its collection of weird stuff.  The signs are just labels on the containers in the warehouse.  So Data tells them that Vadic stole “Jean-Luc Picard” because they were accessing him as the manifest, and that’s what JLP’s body was labeled as.  Why would Section 31 catalog it as “your corpse”?

Yes, the station got broken into recently… by a covert enemy that has infiltrated all of Starfleet.  I don’t get why this makes Security there inept instead of (probably) compromised.  Why steal Picard’s body and not Kirk- because this is Star Trek Picard, not Star Trek Kirk?  Look, we’ve got four more episodes to figure out what the Changelings are up to- there’s certainly a plan that will be revealed.

The show had Vadic steal the portal weapon because it’s not something we’ve seen in Trek before, and it was a cool, scary visual.  The Changelings didn’t use the Genesis device because they wanted to create a small, controlled disaster- not wipe out a whole freaking planet.  Would Starfleet maybe cancel Frontier Day after a Genesis level attack?  The portal was just enough to distract from the real danger, and pin on a scapegoat.

Other stuff:

Riker made a joke about Picard’s word choice because it was a serious moment, and he wanted to lighten the mood.  I seem to remember him being described as “jovial” back in tng.  It’s not a great joke, but it doesn’t feel out of character.  

Moriarty was just fine for me.  I kind of wish he hadn’t been in the previews, because it’s really allowed every “dip$#!t from YouTube” to hype his role in the show way out of proportion.  Instead he’s just a little callback to help Riker and Co. figure out what’s going on with Data.  If Moriarty had been a major player in the storyline, that’s what would have felt silly to me - like one of the lesser Pocket Books stories from the 90’s.

 I loved Geordi and his kids.  I was pleasantly surprised by Mica- I felt she held her own pretty well.  And of course Shaw is happy to meet LaForge- he’s spent half the season dealing with his own version of the Relics episode.  The other big win was finally getting to see Voyager in HD - magnificent.  But overall I think this was a good episode, and I feel like the season is shaping up well.

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, Cattoy said:

The crew of the Defiant brought tribbles back with them at the end of "Trials and Tribble-ations" although it was never said it if was an accident or on purpose. Quark's bar was overrun with them.

The tribble at Daystrom had a sign that said it was genetically modified, hence the reason it was different from prior tribbles.

 

38 minutes ago, Prevailing Wind said:

The DS9 folks DID bring back a tribble or two that overrun Quark's bar. I know they didn't tell the temporal inspectors - the Mulder & Scully parodies - but that doesn't mean Section 31 didn't find out & "preserve" one.  How did they only keep it to one?

Right! Thanks for that.

It shows it's been too long since my last DS9 rewatch. I paused several months ago before "The Visitor" because I have to be in the right frame of mind to not risk becoming a blubbering mess.

[Francie]

13 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

Even our MVP Worf had to say some clunkers, such as that Data wasn’t “guarding the manifest, he is the manifest!” (so hackneyed) and “I will find him, Admiral.  I will bring William Riker home.”  (Who talks like that?)

 

No one. No one talks like that. I especially cringed at the "William Riker" reference. 

2 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

Riker made a joke about Picard’s word choice because it was a serious moment, and he wanted to lighten the mood.  I seem to remember him being described as “jovial” back in tng.  It’s not a great joke, but it doesn’t feel out of character.  

Oh good gracious, is that what they were supposedly going for? If so, I don't have to wonder hard which scenario is closer to the truth:

Scenario 1: Writer uses 'burgle.' No subsequent 'joke.' A Power that Be reviews it and is all, "Hey, love that you used that word! I know! We'll have someone comment how great that word use is. We can have Riker say it and it'll be all like he's breaking the tension. We are so awesome at the writing and the stuff. 

Scenario 2: "Hey, we have a great deal of built up tension here. We need some comical relief to break that tension."/"Well, actually, in terms of tense moments in this episode, I don't think that makes even the top 10."/ "Are you crazy? It's *so* tense here. We really need a joke. Anything will do."/"Well, we can have Riker say a stupid line about Picard's word choice. I mean, he used to have a really good sense of humor and maybe we can capitalize on that."/ "Done and done."

Sorry to harp on the writing. And this is all just my opinion and all that. But this dialogue writing is awful. Painfully awful. And, I live by TWOP's motto: spare the show, spoil the network. 

Torture/Interrogation plot point. 

Here's another situation that played like a $3,500 independent film where $3,400 of the budget went to "crafts services."

I found the scene of Crazy Amanda questioning Riker not well thought out. My biggest critique is that, having watched TNG, I know from Chain of Command, as of 35 years ago, drugs existed that cause the injected party to reveal information. Effective and reliable sodium pentothal, if you will. The Cardassians had it, and certainly these creatures of PicardS3 would have it too. So, this whole "try to get information out of Riker" scenario shouldn't exist. Use the drugs. Get the info. Be done. But this 'enhanced interrogation tactics' scene does exist. For other reasons, as explained below.

Riker is captured. He's going to be interrogated. My question is this -- was this a tense situation where we are actually supposed to ramp up the adrenaline watching? Or is this like an 80s A-Team or Dukes of Hazzard episode where the violence is over the top and non-serious and you're not supposed to get worked up and nervous about it?

Because, on the one hand you had the interrogator being threatened with her very life if she doesn't elicit this information. She kills two henchpeople on the spot to communicate how serious she's being. OMG, Will's in danger, right?

But then, what do we see in the form of interrogation tactics. A 70-year-old man being face slapped as he defiantly says he'll never give up the information. He's 70, for goodness sake. Make him stand without access to a bathroom for 2 hours and he'll tell you anything you want to know. It's Will Riker -- just don't allow him to lean and he'll crack in 8.65 minutes. 

If the harm posed to Will was supposed to be great, and it's supposed to read as a tense situation, don't play the violence at a daytime soap level. Instead, have Crazy Amanda walk over to him and poke out an eyeball. Then ask if he'd like to keep the other. Because Crazy Amanda's very existence is on the line, right? Why would she wait around for the light pummeling (if nothing's broken and teeth aren't coming out, it's a light pummeling) if she really needs to figure out a way to elicit the information from him right away. Why not proceed directly to showing him his wife? Why waste your personnel resources as some sort of ominous sign? I mean, Riker's already supposed to know she's dangerous and deadly. She smoked a cigar, for goodness sake!

I get why each beat happened. The TPTB wanted a 80s style beat up. They loved that moment, I'm sure. They wanted Riker to be seen as tough as faithful.  That they loved "giving him" that moment is something else of which I'm certain. They wanted to have the cake and have eaten it too, so they think they can ratchet up the tension. They loved killing off the back up personnel and thought doing so made the scene more "impactful." Uh huh, yeah, suuure. And they loved the Troi reveal. So who cares about what a well-plotted, actually gripping drama would dictate. They're happy with their "beats" and their "moments."

Meanwhile, I'm miserable, thinking -- and again this is my own, personal experience -- thank goodness they have only four hours left with the characters I grew up with and truly, actually adore. Because I have no trust with them in this TPB's hands. And, sadly for me, these are also characters on a top 5 all-time favorite tv show of mine. So I'm going to watch over them as much as I choose to, and call out when I think they're being subjected to a disservice. Again, if you spare the show, you spoil the network. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

For me, a big problem with the interrogation scene is that there is little reason to think that Riker has any useful info. He at best can know what Picard and co. planned to do/where they planned to go if they were 100 percent successful.

Knowing that Riker has been captured, Picard has every reason to act as though Riker can be broken and to not execute any such pre-made plans. 

Similarly, Riker has every reason to just lead them on a half-dozen wild goose chases.

[Stardancer Supreme]

I also found Vadic's plan of snatching any person remotely associated to Picard kind of ridiculous, since almost everyone close to Picard is already with him. I don't think Changelings would mess with Laris, would they? Riker being on the away mission seemed strange; I get that someone who was close to DataLoreSoong was needed to get to him, but he didn't have a moment with Worf?  

[Chicago Redshirt]

47 minutes ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

I also found Vadic's plan of snatching any person remotely associated to Picard kind of ridiculous, since almost everyone close to Picard is already with him. I don't think Changelings would mess with Laris, would they? Riker being on the away mission seemed strange; I get that someone who was close to DataLoreSoong was needed to get to him, but he didn't have a moment with Worf?  

I don't know if her plan was to bodysnatch all of Picard's known associates, or at least, I hope not, because that seems a stupid plan. If you figure just from his time on the Enterprise D and E, Picard must have had roughly 4,000 Starfleet people who worked under him (the crew of the Enterprise D being about 1k people, and figuring that over the course of his career just on those two ships, there would be like three or four complete crew changeovers). Add to that people he would have known from the Stargazer, from the Academy, from his post Enterprise career, his contacts with the Klingons and Romulans, and you would have like 10k people. While you could try to monitor those people's activities to see if he reached out to them for help or whatnot, physically abducting that many people is flatout nonsensical.

I imagine that Picard does have people who are close to him beyond the Enterprise D/E command staff, though.

I don't see why the Changelings would not mess with Laris or someone back at Chateau Picard. I suppose the question would be if JLP would be brazen/dumb enough to contact someone there, and for what reason, since his home would be one of the first places that you would think that they would try to trace/monitor.

The potential people they could choose for the break-into-Daystrom mission are relatively small but you are probably right that they did not pick the best crew:

Picard himself is too old.

Shaw: Meh.

Sidney: Too green.

The best group IMHO would be: Jack, Seven and Worf. Jack has shown himself to have a pretty larcenous mindset. Seven not only can fight but she should be able to bring enough skills to adapt to situations if they go south with her broad Borg knowledge. And Worf is also a great fighter if it should come to that.

 

[norcalgal]

7 hours ago, ChitChat said:

A calmer, more thoughtful Worf.  Chamomile tea, anyone? 

Not prune juice?  😄

[TVbitch]

Data cycling through his personalities reminded me of Brent Spiner's tour de force in TNG's "Brothers" episode. I do enjoy Lore's impish devil grin.

Jack looked about 40 in this episode, but acted 16 when he decided to get drunk instead of maybe help save the galaxy. 

JLP had some nerve pushing back against Jordie wanting to protect his daughters when JLP was just recently willing to sacrifice the entire crew to protect the son he just found out about! 

These guys had an easier time putting the band back together than Jake and Elwood! 

[CarpeFelis]

On 3/23/2023 at 4:32 PM, thuganomics85 said:

But that's not all: Data is back!  Well, sort of.  Turns out Soong was attempting to recreate him in a more humanoid body (that would a) explain Brent Spiner's aging and b) probably avoid him having to put on all that white make-up)

Why the heck didn’t Soong give him normal looking eyes? That was bugging me.

3 hours ago, TVbitch said:

These guys had an easier time putting the band back together than Jake and Elwood! 

Now I can’t help imagining a cascade of starships crashing into each other at the Federation Day celebration.

[Prevailing Wind]

On 3/23/2023 at 4:55 AM, PurpleTentacle said:

How and why do Twitter and Youtube think this is so much better than season one and two? Have the memberberries rotted their brains?

The reviews of this episode on imdb are of the same gushing ilk.  AIIIEEEE.  The human race is doomed; there is no more critical thinking. It's all emotion.

[marinw]

The latest Data/Lore/Whoever model has "The wisdom of age" Sure, Whatever. Nice try.

So did Geordi marry Leah Brahams? The real one?

[tv-talk]

9 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

The reviews of this episode on imdb are of the same gushing ilk.  AIIIEEEE.  The human race is doomed; there is no more critical thinking. It's all emotion.

Maybe because it was a great episode that gave hardcore Trek fans what they wanted and set-up possibly a few more decent to great episodes? I have no idea why people choose to pick this episode apart as if it doesnt meet some previous standard Star Trek set with logical plots and lack of nonsensical situations. Newflash- Star Trek has always been basically the same way this episode was, ie you can always think "Wait, why didnt they just use that thing from the other episode and solve the problem immediately and easily?" 

[paigow]

2 hours ago, marinw said:

So did Geordi marry Leah Brahams? The real one?

No definite verdict.

She was already married prior to their first TNG meeting.  However, in the TNG finale, Picard was jumping timelines and met a future Geordi who was married to somebody named Leah - but never mentioned if she was a scientific genius... 

  

[marinw]

Geordi in love “That woman has great….schematics”

[Francie]

I'm going to have to disagree with the notion that TNG was always nothing but shit for writing. 

Seasons 3 through 6, and part of 7, exemplified some of the best television drama ever produced. There's a reason why TNG was finally nominated for best drama at the emmys in the seventh season. And I have no doubt it would have gotten there sooner and Patrick Stewart would have been nominated year after year for best actor if not for two hurdles: 1) the show was syndicated and no had broadcast network support; and 2) science fiction was considered niche entertainment only worthy of technical and not artistic praise. 

The All Good Things finale is the 17th most watched finale of all time, and it's in an elite class of series finales that hit the mark and did not disappoint. It was a damn good show (quick, company is coming, hide the first season under the sofa cushions). And *that* is the reason why Patrick Stewart was approached about a series and why, after the first two seasons apparently failed miserably, they brought the gang back together. They just forgot to bring all the good writing too. 

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by Francie
accidentally left out a word

[marinw]

In terms of TNG writing, the third season episode “The Defector” was an  outstanding bottle episode. The dialogue had that heightened, theatrical feel that I loved about Star Trek..

[Ceindreadh]

My first thought on seeing Deanna on Vadic's ship was to assume that she was a changeling that was going to be used to pressure Riker into betraying Picard.

My second thought was that surely Riker will be smart enough to consider that possibility.

My third thought was to wonder if we'll get a long awaited sequel to Shades of Gray as Deanna tries to convince Riker that yes, she is really his wife and not an imposter.  😀

 

[paigow]

Riker had his brain hijacked so many times during TNG, maybe it has finally caught up to him....

• Captured during undercover away team mission after his theatrical Tour de Force [directed by Bev]
• Captured by Romulans  emotionally needy alien, provided with fake son & fake Romulans
• Addicted to mind control game that only Wes & Data resisted
• More???
• ETA: Experimented on by those clicking subspace aliens... sleep deprivation and losing grip on reality

Edited March 25, 2023 by paigow

[Ceindreadh]

13 minutes ago, paigow said:

Riker had his brain hijacked so many times during TNG, maybe it has finally caught up to him....

• Captured during undercover away team mission after his theatrical Tour de Force [directed by Bev]
• Captured by Romulans, provided with fake son
• Addicted to mind control game that only Wes & Data resisted
• More???

It wasn't the Romulans who provided him with a fake son.  They were a simulation inside a simulation and the actual culprit was an alien looking for companionship. 

[marinw]

So when River was captain of the Titan did Troi serve as ships councillor or some other role? I suppose it would be no great a conflict of interest that Picard's semi-involvement with the ship’s Chief Medical Officer.

Edited March 25, 2023 by marinw

[Stardancer Supreme]

39 minutes ago, marinw said:

So when Riker was captain of the Titan, did Troi serve as ships counselor or some other role? I suppose it would be no great a conflict of interest that Picard's semi-involvement with the ship’s Chief Medical Officer.

 

No, it looks like she was only counselor on the Enterprise until she took the command track training exam and was promoted to Commander serving on the Titan. Any other canon may have been in the Star Trek Titan novels, which I haven't read. I guess she may have served while Riker was Captain until she had their children. 

[paigow]

Troi and Bev were BFF... Surprised that Riker even knew his own kids existed if she was getting parenting advice from Bev....

[Affogato]

On 3/25/2023 at 5:36 PM, marinw said:

So when River was captain of the Titan did Troi serve as ships councillor or some other role? I suppose it would be no great a conflict of interest that Picard's semi-involvement with the ship’s Chief Medical Officer.

I think it would if Troi is meant to be there for the command crew. There are more than one nedical doctor on the ship. 

Okay, Borg stuff aside, it looks like something happened to the changelings, or some of them in the virus/antidote period. They can’t properly melt-rest because what? Maybe the solid organ variant is a bug, not s feature. Jack’s illness resonates to them and he is going through what they are going through. Maybe they want to use him as a vaccine. 

[Good Queen Jane]

Poor Picard! He keeps giving away bottles of Chateau Picard wine and nobody wants it. 

[Egg McMuffin]

On 3/24/2023 at 7:38 AM, Cattoy said:

Data was popular, Spiner knew it and the producers were afraid to challenge him. He refused to do the movies unless he was made the major character. Stewart was also in full-ego mode, so they were the only actors to get decent parts. The movies suffered for it.

Spiner also got better billing in the movies. For the series, Stewart and Frakes were billed up front as the leads, with the rest of the cast billed alphabetically. For the movies, Spiner moved up and was billed directly after Stewart and Frakes, and then the supporting cast came alphabetically.

I always found Data annoying. Bring back Pulaski to put him in his place!

I like these new episodes, even though there are some things wrong. Geordi was out of character, and it’s hard to keep track of all of Data’s death and revivals. But as a nostalgia trip, it scratches the itch. It’s the first Trek I’ve watched since Voyager ended.

Have they mentioned what happened to Enterprise E? Is it still in use? Since they’re going all out on nostalgia, you’d think that this season would take place on the Enterprise, not the Titan.

[dwmarch]

15 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

Poor Picard! He keeps giving away bottles of Chateau Picard wine and nobody wants it. 

I love the idea that Chateau Picard is the Two Buck Chuck of the 25th century. Picard may be good at any number of things but it seems wine-making is not one of them. Having said that, I still bought the t-shirt:

[cambridgeguy]

6 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

Have they mentioned what happened to Enterprise E? Is it still in use? Since they’re going all out on nostalgia, you’d think that this season would take place on the Enterprise, not the Titan.

The Enterprise-F has been mentioned, but nothing about the E, although she's either unavailable or not important enough to have earned a placed in the museum.

[starri]

39 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

The Enterprise-F has been mentioned, but nothing about the E, although she's either unavailable or not important enough to have earned a placed in the museum.

Alandra did mention "Hangar 12," although what was in there wasn't disclosed.

[SnarkShark]

I'd assume the body of Picard was part of a frameup job for an attack, but... they already have Picard framed pretty well without that.

It probably has something to do with Stupid Jack, I suppose.   But not that sickness they both have.  They can't be the only people with it.  Instead it probably has to do with whatever briefly gave Stupid Jack advanced abilities.  

Once again, Worf is what mostly saves an episode.  

Since this involves shapechangers, are we even going to briefly believe that's actually Deanna?

[Joimiaroxeu]

It sounds like Vadic pronounces Jean-Luc's last name as "Picar" without the ending consonant. Is that an affectation on her part or is she just mocking the French language?

Worf is not a hugger.

Attack Tribble. Will's got jokes.

Geordi is a hugger.

I think Jack and Sidney are fun together and wouldn't mind a spinoff with them going rogue while they commiserate about their fathers. 😉

Data! Sorta.

Yeah that has to be a Changeling instead if the real Deanna Troi. But wouldn't Vadic know Will would assume that?

Edited March 27, 2023 by Joimiaroxeu

[Peace 47]

19 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

It sounds like Vadic pronounces Jean-Luc's last name as "Picar" without the ending consonant. Is that an affectation or her part or is she just mocking the French language?

She is using the actual correct French pronunciation of the name.  You don’t pronounce the “d”.  

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, SnarkShark said:

I'd assume the body of Picard was part of a frameup job for an attack, but... they already have Picard framed pretty well without that.

It probably has something to do with Stupid Jack, I suppose.   But not that sickness they both have.  They can't be the only people with it.  Instead it probably has to do with whatever briefly gave Stupid Jack advanced abilities.  

 

They aren’t medical researchers. 

[paigow]

2 hours ago, SnarkShark said:

It probably has something to do with Stupid Jack, I suppose.