All Episodes Discussion

[walnutqueen]

57 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Don't kick yourself for being normal. That's one reason they've extended the amount of time when child  victims can come forward.  Children are wired to believe anything their parents say and to believe that everything the parent does is right -- otherwise there would be endless arguments about every detail of life. It took me until my father was over eighty before I could (sort of, just a little bit) stand up to him and he wasn't even a bad guy, just overly domineering and critical.

Yes, yes, yes!  I may not have found my voice for my own self, but you can bet the farm I found it on behalf of my precious niece, when she was a baby.  I stood up to him loud & proud - it was perhaps my finest hour.  It also erased any hold he ever had on me, and from that moment on, I was free of all his bullshit.  So the confrontation about things he'd always deny, was, for the most part, totally unnecessary.

[LittleIggy]

“The Creek” was so incredibly sad. The grandad will spend the rest of his life berating himself for being too busy with a video game to notice the time. That boyfriend was a real sociopath. 

[EtheltoTillie]

The creek was very sad. That's two episodes in a row where someone will feel very guilty from letting the victim  go to her doom inadvertently. 

That said, the episode was confusing. An annoying hour and a half to find the body, then only half an hour to wrap up the crime. My husband and I were both somewhat confused.  Was the pregnancy story completely made up by the killer?  No one else would have been able to verify it. What was the source of the discord?  She was too clingy and jealous?  Sad that her attachment to a creep got her killed. 

[mythoughtis]

I think the pregnancy story was true because they had the texts from his phone, her phone, and the friends phone.  She wasn’t pregnant though.  It’s so sad that a 17 year old boy thought he wouldn’t be able to be a Marine with a child. That’s what the police thought his motive was. 

It was very sad that a 15 year old died. As usual though, the show painted the victim as a perfect person for 3/4 of the show- then comes back and throws in the real story. No one is perfect. They still have a right to be alive.  Sometimes I think the shows writers and producers think we will only care about perfect victims. 

I’m also amazed that the creek was really that secret of a place.  I expect it had been a teenage hangout for years. So  adults should have known about it after a while. 

Edited May 5, 2018 by mythoughtis

[cooksdelight]

This happened on the opposite end of NC from where I live, so I hadn’t heard about the case. I’ve been catching up online with news articles. Very sad case, could have been done in an hour, I think.

[EtheltoTillie]

1 hour ago, mythoughtis said:

I think the pregnancy story was true because they had the texts from his phone, her phone, and the friends phone.  She wasn’t pregnant though.  It’s so sad that a 17 year old boy thought he wouldn’t be able to be a Marine with a child. That’s what the police thought his motive was. 

It was very sad that a 15 year old died. As usual though, the show painted the victim as a perfect person for 3/4 of the show- then comes back and throws in the real story. No one is perfect. They still have a right to be alive.  Sometimes I think the shows writers and producers think we will only care about perfect victims. 

I’m also amazed that the creek was really that secret of a place.  I expect it had been a teenage hangout for years. So  adults should have known about it after a while. 

Thanks, that's what I was confused about and didn't want to bother rewinding.  So she had texted him about thinking she was pregnant?  And it of course turned out to be a false alarm but maybe not known until the body was found?  Sad sad sad.  Totally agree with you on the "perfect victim" edit.  They always do that. 

[sinycalone]

I don't think they really did paint her as perfect though....they revealed early on that she did skip school, hung out at the creek even though she knew it was foolish, etc.  What they did hold back though was the seriousness of her relationship with Je'Michael....it wasn't just a puppy love situation,.  Her family knew his family, thought he was a great kid with real goals....so they did not question the amount of time she was spending with him.

Of course, what no one really understood was the fact that he was a sociopath....able to hide to his total selfishness, ruthlessness, etc.

At first, I thought the aunt was a bit of a drama queen....but as they continued to interview her, she seemed much more realistic about her niece and her probable demise.  When she said near the end that the only thing Je'Michael was sorry about was that he didn't use more cinder blocks....I found myself really liking and admiring her.

[Stampiron]

16 minutes ago, GussieK said:

Thanks, that's what I was confused about and didn't want to bother rewinding.  So she had texted him about thinking she was pregnant?  And it of course turned out to be a false alarm but maybe not known until the body was found?  Sad sad sad.  Totally agree with you on the "perfect victim" edit.  They always do that. 

No way to know for sure, but I think it's just as likely that she just made up the pregnancy. 

I was a little surprised that the prosecution didn't feel confident selling a first-degree murder charge at trial. Leaving his phone at home plus the app auto-sending texts seems like a clear attempt to establish an alibi before the fact.  (I hate to give props to a murderer, but that was pretty sophisticated thinking on his part. Wouldn't expect that from someone his age.)

[Ohmo]

3 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

It was very sad that a 15 year old died. As usual though, the show painted the victim as a perfect person for 3/4 of the show- then comes back and throws in the real story. No one is perfect. They still have a right to be alive.  Sometimes I think the shows writers and producers think we will only care about perfect victims. 

I don't know if sad is the word that I would use.  I liked a post upthread because I feel sorry for the grandfather,  Je'Michael is also guilty because murder is not the way to handle anything.  However, I have news for Dannie's family.  She was not the magically sweet teen that they thought she was.  She was not the random, unwitting victim of a situation.  Telling your boyfriend that you're pregnant when you're not is dangerous.  Being in a secluded area with him late at night is dangerous.  Like someone said upthread, Je'Michael thinking the way that he did had consequences, but Dannie also thinking that she could magically get Je'Michael back with a baby was an equally dumb idea.  I know that both of them were teenagers, and teenagers make dumb decisions.  However, the reality is is that all decisions have consequences.  Dannie is dead, and it's not like the teenage decisions don't count.  I feel that that's how we're supposed to view cases like this.  Like it was a stupid teenage decision and nothing more.  Everyone only gets one life, no matter how old a person is, and people have to take some agency in order to try and protect themselves.  I feel very sorry for Dannie's family.  They truly believed that she was more innocent than she turned out to be.  The cop said that she wasn't pregnant, so she was taking a gamble, and she lost.  She did indeed deserve to live, but the situation was not without some participation on her part either.  I get tired of being told to wave situations away due to teenage stupidity.  Plenty of teenagers make stupid decisions, but many others don't.  Je'Michael should not have killed her.  He deserves to be in prison, but if Dannie had also made some different choices, she might very well still be alive today.

If you're going to throw something at me, I suggest chocolate....dark chocolate is my favorite.

[EtheltoTillie]

7 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

I don't know if sad is the word that I would use.  I liked a post upthread because I feel sorry for the grandfather,  Je'Michael is also guilty because murder is not the way to handle anything.  However, I have news for Dannie's family.  She was not the magically sweet teen that they thought she was.  She was not the random, unwitting victim of a situation.  Telling your boyfriend that you're pregnant when you're not is dangerous.  Being in a secluded area with him late at night is dangerous.  Like someone said upthread, Je'Michael thinking the way that he did had consequences, but Dannie also thinking that she could magically get Je'Michael back with a baby was an equally dumb idea.  I know that both of them were teenagers, and teenagers make dumb decisions.  However, the reality is is that all decisions have consequences.  Dannie is dead, and it's not like the teenage decisions don't count.  I feel that that's how we're supposed to view cases like this.  Like it was a stupid teenage decision and nothing more.  Everyone only gets one life, no matter how old a person is, and people have to take some agency in order to try and protect themselves.  I feel very sorry for Dannie's family.  They truly believed that she was more innocent than she turned out to be.  The cop said that she wasn't pregnant, so she was taking a gamble, and she lost.  She did indeed deserve to live, but the situation was not without some participation on her part either.  I get tired of being told to wave situations away due to teenage stupidity.  Plenty of teenagers make stupid decisions, but many others don't.  Je'Michael should not have killed her.  He deserves to be in prison, but if Dannie had also made some different choices, she might very well still be alive today.

If you're going to throw something at me, I suggest chocolate....dark chocolate is my favorite.

Thanks for further weighing in, Ohmo.  This is where we were getting very confused--my husband said at one point that she seemed to be stalking him.  I still fall back on sad to define this, as I don't have a better word.

[EtheltoTillie]

On 4/30/2018 at 12:55 PM, walnutqueen said:

It is my (very limited, I'll admit) understanding that the majority of the victims could not seek justice because of the statute of limitations, which is why only the most recent of the allegations was prosecuted.

Sometimes it takes decades, or longer, to come to terms with, or have the courage to admit molestation.  If I could dig up my dead stepfather's body and have him held accountable for what he did to me in the 1960s (not to mention the 1980s), I might be tempted to do so.  Even if a legal case couldn't be made, I would want him to face public scrutiny and the judgement of his "peers" - which he avoided his entire goddamned life.  Some people might say he's burning in Hell, but that's really no solace or satisfaction, as I'm not sure I believe in all that stuff.  So, I think I get it.

 

ETA - and maybe I'm just bitter for not having "found my voice" and confronting him until it was too late.

I wanted to weigh in on the statute of limitations question also.  I am so sorry for what you went through, Walnut Queen.

Putting on my lawyer hat, if you will briefly allow me:  Many states are considering eliminating the SOL for certain sex crimes.  There is no SOL for murder in any state, I believe.    Eliminating the statute of limitations reflects society's belief that the crime is heinous enough to deserve prosecution at any time.  I personally think sex crimes are as bad as murders, and I support this trend.  Prosecutors still have to have proof, so even cold-case murders might or might not be proven in court, but they get the right to try to prosecute if they find new evidence.  Same with sex crimes--there might be DNA, there might be testimony.  What a shame if the perpetrator can't be prosecuted because the victim was unable to come forward earlier.

[LakeGal]

Sadly there is more than one of these cases where the girl lies to the boy that she is pregnant to get him back.  He freaks out and believes her.  He worries about his future or others finding out (present girlfriend/parents) and kills her.  That is a deadly game to play.  Someone has to convince young girls to not try this.  There is a reason pregnant women get killed by the baby daddy much too often.

I also found it hard to believe that nobody knew about this secret place at the creek.  Odds are every generation hung out there.  

This was another case they dragged out for 2 hours when they could have easily done it in an hour.  But then auntie would not have had the opportunity to put on her makeup and trot around on camera for what seemed like way too long.  

[Ohmo]

4 minutes ago, LakeGal said:

Someone has to convince young girls to not try this. 

This is how I feel about a lot of things.  People warn people about boatloads of things, and the reality is that at some point, people have to take responsibility to heed the warning. It's like the recent wave of incidents with fraternities on college campuses.  It's unfortunate that the kid at Penn State died, as well as the others at the other schools, but let's not feign ignorance and pretend that we don't know what occurs at frat parties---massive amounts of drinking.  That has happened for decades.

People say that teenagers think they are invincible.  That's true, but it's not true for all teenagers.  I was never like that, and I knew other teenagers at the time who were like-minded. so it's not like those type of teens don't exist.  And guess what?  Those teens didn't end up dead.  At some point, you have to value your own life enough to listen to what you're being warned about.

[ridethemaverick]

As soon as Jemichael said "she was a great girl, I loved her" I knew he did it and I'm quite certain the detective did too but since this is dateline, we needed red herrings and distractions. Then later we find out that Jemichael was never cleared and had failed a polygraph early on. It's Dateline MYSTERY so I get why they do it but it irked me a little.

I could also tell that Jemichael's mom knew he did it as soon as the body was found. Ber language in the police video was telling. She was fishing: "Some people might think you did it since the body was found by our house...but we still love you" and then the crying shortly after. But any sympathy I had for her evaporated after she smugly asked the victim's family for forgiveness and mercy. I'm glad Danie's mom got to go off on them.

It did sound to me like Danie was stalking Jemichael and likely cooked up the pregnancy scheme to keep him in her life. She had no idea what she was dealing with.

Jemichael was a smart kid. Too bad he used it for evil instead of good. 

Edited May 5, 2018 by ridethemaverick
Wrong name

[AZChristian]

On 4/30/2018 at 9:55 AM, walnutqueen said:

It is my (very limited, I'll admit) understanding that the majority of the victims could not seek justice because of the statute of limitations, which is why only the most recent of the allegations was prosecuted.

Sometimes it takes decades, or longer, to come to terms with, or have the courage to admit molestation.  If I could dig up my dead stepfather's body and have him held accountable for what he did to me in the 1960s (not to mention the 1980s), I might be tempted to do so.  Even if a legal case couldn't be made, I would want him to face public scrutiny and the judgement of his "peers" - which he avoided his entire goddamned life.  Some people might say he's burning in Hell, but that's really no solace or satisfaction, as I'm not sure I believe in all that stuff.  So, I think I get it.

Too many of us share these childhood experiences.  We should get a group rate on disinterring these scumbags.

[mythoughtis]

1 hour ago, Ohmo said:

I don't know if sad is the word that I would use.  I liked a post upthread because I feel sorry for the grandfather,  Je'Michael is also guilty because murder is not the way to handle anything.  However, I have news for Dannie's family.  She was not the magically sweet teen that they thought she was.  She was not the random, unwitting victim of a situation.  Telling your boyfriend that you're pregnant when you're not is dangerous.  Being in a secluded area with him late at night is dangerous.  Like someone said upthread, Je'Michael thinking the way that he did had consequences, but Dannie also thinking that she could magically get Je'Michael back with a baby was an equally dumb idea.  I know that both of them were teenagers, and teenagers make dumb decisions.  However, the reality is is that all decisions have consequences.  Dannie is dead, and it's not like the teenage decisions don't count.  I feel that that's how we're supposed to view cases like this.  Like it was a stupid teenage decision and nothing more.  Everyone only gets one life, no matter how old a person is, and people have to take some agency in order to try and protect themselves.  I feel very sorry for Dannie's family.  They truly believed that she was more innocent than she turned out to be.  The cop said that she wasn't pregnant, so she was taking a gamble, and she lost.  She did indeed deserve to live, but the situation was not without some participation on her part either.  I get tired of being told to wave situations away due to teenage stupidity.  Plenty of teenagers make stupid decisions, but many others don't.  Je'Michael should not have killed her.  He deserves to be in prison, but if Dannie had also made some different choices, she might very well still be alive today.

If you're going to throw something at me, I suggest chocolate....dark chocolate is my favorite.

Not going to throw anything at you. You aren’t wrong- and I did feel she made bad choices too. It’s just sad that teenagers end up dead.  I think her family didn’t supervise her. Not because  she was allowed to slip  over to a friends house at 10( In walking distance)- but because she was 15 and was allowed to be in a situation where she could be pregnant. Lots of teenagers that age and below are told to meet at the movie, parents will pick you up, etc- just for this reason. They were treating her as an adult because they weren’t her parent. 

Edited May 5, 2018 by mythoughtis

[saber5055]

This show. For nearly the entire episode Danie is portrayed as the best kid ever. You know, like everyone who dies/is murdered is perfect. Then at the very end it's revealed she's been stalking Jemichael so much that he blocks her texts ... and she uses someone else's phone to get around the block to continue to harass him. She tells him she's pregnant because everyone knows that always brings back a boyfriend/husband who no longer even LIKES you and all will be happy ever after.

55 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

Lots of teenagers that age and below are told to meet at the movie, parents will pick you up, etc- just for this reason. They were treating her as an adult because they weren’t her parent. 

It sounds like no one was "treating" her at all, she just did whatever she wanted, whenever. Who knows what really went on "behind the scenes" with those kids. I do feel sorry for Danie's family though. Those tears were for real, they loved her and miss her. Their lives will never be the same. i wish them the best.

Still Jemichael couldn't have been that smart if he thought killing her would solve all his problems. This after he supposedly told Danie that he would support the child but not be with her? What was that about? He could still have joined the Marines and sent child support back home. He'd have plenty of company with all the guys he'd meet in the military, all doing the same.

I don't get that supposedly Danie was already dead when Jemichael "woke up" from "passing out." Then why did the buddy stuff the sock in her mouth because she was "making a noise" and someone would hear her. Who would hear her way out there? That didn't make sense.

I also don't know why they simply dumped her off the bridge when they could have hauled her body down river for a spell where no one would be looking down and/or fishing. But teenagers ... they are invincible. Well, most of them.

Also not surprised Jemichael knew about the "delay sending" texts app. It's common knowledge, even some "oldsters" know about it. *cough* Most email providers offer that service too.

As for the other kid who got in the "bad habit" of erasing his browser history: All I could think of was his parents were searching for his porn sites. No other reason to erase history. Unless you were searching how to dismantle a dead body or something.

Edited May 5, 2018 by saber5055

[Ohmo]

1 hour ago, saber5055 said:

As for the other kid who got in the "bad habit" of erasing his browser history: All I could think of was his parents were searching for his porn sites. No other reason to erase history. Unless you were searching how to dismantle a dead body or something.

Or you have a very security-conscious  brother who works in IT, set up your computer for you, and automatically set things up to erase your browser history. :)

I think my word for this case would be "preventable" because if Dannie had made different choices, she likely would be alive today.  Reminds me of a well-known local case here.  A college student was abducted, raped, and murdered.  She was snatched as she walked to her car after her shift at a restaurant near campus (which is a dicey area. ) It is huge news around here because at the time, the P.O. S was wearing an ankle monitor, but the state does not have the resources to keep tabs on the data 24/7,  The P.O.S. killed someone and robbed a few banks even while wearing an ankle monitor.  That fact got everyone upset and has led to proposed changes in state law.  However, a lesser known tidbit of this tragedy is that a male bartender who worked at the restaurant with the student had offered to walk her to her car after work, and she told him no.  Yes, the guy who committed the murder is an absolute P.O.S., and he will rot in prison.  (Jury said no to the death penalty.)  However, if the student had taken her co-worker up on his offer, it might have saved her life.  I think sometimes people need to stop thinking of themselves as so "special" that nothing bad could ever possibly happen to them.  It can happen to you just as easily as anyone else, as Dannie and this college student unfortunately learned.

[sinycalone]

The aunt did say she was criticized by Danielle for being too much in her business...so I'm guessing the aunt backed off a bit.  In the interview, the aunt added that in retrospect she should have been even more "in her business."  Yep....another instance of realizing too late adults need to supervise teenagers...not worry about upsetting them by laying down rules.

Of course, Je'Michael's mother wasn't exactly an ideal parent either.....that house was not all that big that two grown women could not determine that two teenage boys had sneaked out for a couple of hours.  I agree with someone upthread who felt his mother knew Je'Michael was guilty of murder...from her comments in the interview room at the police station.

The police involved (local and state) never gave up -- and probably suspected from the start that Danielle was not just missing, but dead.  

[LittleIggy]

I’m sure Dani was unconscious but still alive when they stuffed her body into the back seat of the car. Hence the sock in her mouth. JeMichael and his accomplice probably had the cord and the cinder blocks already in the trunk when they went to pick her up.

Edited May 7, 2018 by LittleIggy

[ChristmasJones]

I had a strong feeling JeMichael did it when he made the comment about not being so stupid as to dump the body right near his house. I have heard SOOOO many interrogations with murderers who make this type of comment- that they are not so stupid as to do x,y,z.  Its their arrogance coming through. I've heard it from the mouths of people where there is exceptionally strong evidence against them. I now consider that specific statement to be a major red flag.

As for the decisions that led to this murder...  with victims of homicide, there is a spectrum of vulnerability.  Some victims are extremely vulnerable, such as working as a prostitute or becoming highly intoxicated.  Those choices increase risk.  A person who is sleeping at home in their own bed and a random intruder kills them... they were not indulging in behaviors that are known to increase the risk of being murdered.  Let's say they left their doors and windows unlocked, though. That choice increased their vulnerability.  Another example- living alone in a ground-floor apartment is more risky than living on a higher floor where it is harder to gain access to. Even then, there are cases where murderers climb up on balconies to gain access.  99% of the time a woman who goes jogging alone is fine. But then there is that 1% of the time that she crosses paths with a predator.

Its not as simplistic as blaming the victim. Its analyzing the sequence of choices and actions that led to the murder happening, both on the part of the murderer, the victim, and the people around them. In any case, with 20/20 hindsight, one can see how murders could be averted if the people involved had made different decisions. The murderer bears ultimate responsibility for his decision to kill, but sometimes people make decisions that increase their vulnerability to becoming a victim.

Edited May 6, 2018 by ChristmasJones

[yorklee2]

Quote

But any sympathy I had for her evaporated after she smugly asked the victim's family for forgiveness and mercy. I'm glad Danie's mom got to go off on them.

Yeah that bothered me. I realize she loved her son but at least he was still alive and she would be able to visit him. And it was almost like she was preaching to Dani's family. Her tone was as if they owed her son something. The nerve of her. I too was glad Dani's mother was able from the depths of her soul tell his mother, "Mercy??... You speak of mercy when my daughter was never allowed it". Did anyone notice the look on Je'Michael's face as she was saying that? There was only what looked like a few feet that separated them and he looked terrified she was going to come over the partition wall and jump him. 

Quote

I don't get that Danie was supposedly already dead when JeMichael "woke up" from "passing out".

I never bought that whole account for a second. I have seen so many times, and am getting tired of, killers trying to blame the victim to garner some sympathy for why they did what they did. According to him she initiated it by slapping him, then jumping him beating him so bad that he had to fight back to save his life. Then he "blacked out" and when he woke she wasn't breathing. I don't believe that he couldn't have quickly overpowered her if she had initiated it, but even if she had the fact that he had an accomplice right there with him who could have easily pulled her off (if he had truly met her with good intentions and she became violent) or help him get the upper hand and finish her off, makes that story laughable. She stood no chance against the two of them. 

I do wonder though if the fact that he had someone with him, when I'm sure she thought they were meeting privately, raise any red flags with her. I guess there's always the possibility that she had met him with his friend before but I don't really think so. 

23 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

 

Edited May 7, 2018 by yorklee2

[tobeannounced]

My son is the same age as Dannie, and I was curious how those kids could skip school so easily without getting caught. My school district, as far back as I can remember, has always notified me by email when my child missed even one class.

And I know people sneer at you if you suggest abstinence for teenagers, but this is a good reason why they should be. They're just so immature, and the negative consequences of having sex (emotional upset, diseases, unwanted pregnancy) are far-reaching and hard for even adults to deal with.

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, tobeannounced said:

and I was curious how those kids could skip school so easily without getting caught. My school district, as far back as I can remember, has always notified me by email when my child missed even one class.

Their parents probably didn't care. Her friend said the only time Danni skipped class to go to the creek was a week or two before her murder, so it wasn't a regular thing for her.

Edited May 6, 2018 by biakbiak

[rlc]

The aunt seemed to be enjoying the limelight a bit too much. I found the whole thing incredibly confusing. And sad.

[sinycalone]

1 hour ago, rlc said:

The aunt seemed to be enjoying the limelight a bit too much. I found the whole thing incredibly confusing. And sad.

I agree....but as I said upthread... as the interviews continued....she seemed to become more honest and revealing more of her true feelings and distress.  Her comment about Je'Michael only being sorry he didn't use more cinder blocks was said with devestating accuracy.

[yorklee2]

5 hours ago, sinycalone said:

I agree....but as I said upthread... as the interviews continued....she seemed to become more honest and revealing more of her true feelings and distress.  Her comment about Je'Michael only being sorry he didn't use more cinder blocks was said with devestating accuracy.

Yes and can anyone imagine how betrayed and guilty they must have felt. He was someone the family trusted and believed was a good kid. I'm sure they've many times wondered why they couldn't see he could not be trusted or that they would have been more aware of and less lenient of her activities.

Some have thought he panicked and it was a shame he thought he couldn't be a father and Marine at the same time. But I don't see it that way. I believe he was a sociopath who cared about no one but himself. If he had truly just panicked in the moment than I believe he would have caved long before he did. But he was one cool customer who thought he would never get caught. If Dani had never told him she was pregnant and they had stayed together I believe his ruthlessness would still have manifested itself at some point. Teenagers think they are invincible and the pregnancy tactic has been used more than anyone might think. Even by adult women. Yes a dangerous game but the majority of these situations work themselves out when the girl/woman tells the truth or can no longer keep up the charade. Most don't end up with someone being killed. Unfortunately for Dani she was dealing with a sociopath.

Edited May 6, 2018 by yorklee2

[Mondrianyone]

Did I miss some additional reason that Dannie was sent away during the divorce process?  That's really something I've never heard of before, getting rid of the kid while the split plays out.  It would seem to me that the more acrimonious the divorce, the more you want to have your kid with you, to comfort her and let her know she's loved by both parents (or at least the one she lives with, if the father was a real POS).  This struck me as a way of handing off an inconvenience while the mom's life was disrupted.  Dannie didn't seem to have much supervision and concern from any of the adults in her life, much as they tried to clean up their look after the fact.

[Rowan]

It never fails to piss me off when they attempt to set up the mystery by throwing some poor shlub under the bus. I wasn't aware that having a burn pit is criminally suspicious during certain months of the year. I understand cops feel enormous pressure to solve missing and/or murdered person cases, but, damn, I hate when they take some completely innocuous event or circumstance and twist it because they are desperate. 

I, too, wondered why Danielle was living away from her Mom, and I noticed, and maybe I'm wrong 'cause Dateline is only a snippet in the course of this tragedy, after all, but I felt that there wasn't much of a connection with regards to the Mom and the rest of the extended family. I just wondered if maybe she can't get past the Grandfather's role in all of it.  Who doesn't call the police when she isn't back in 30 minutes or  so?

This stuff is high anxiety inducing for me. I'm all up in my daughter's business and even with that I know you can't know everything. You have to trust them at some point. It's just figuring exactly when that point is that can be so hard. 

Edited May 7, 2018 by Rowan

[OpalNightstream]

I wish then would do a better job at editing. Two hours and so much filler yet with so much left out.   He was she with her aunt and not with her own mom? Why didn't the school call to report her skipping classes? Surely other adults know  about the creek. I have a fifteen yr old daughter   Thank goodness she's scared to the hilt about messing around and getting caught. That poor girls family failed her. Yes ultimately it was exbf doing but a little guidance from those who love her most wouldn't have hurt.  Not to mention, call me old fashioned but so weird to hear a grandfather was playing video games! My father would laugh at that old guy being wrapped up in video games at his age.

[AnnieHeights]

I viewed this a little differently, I felt the aunt and possibly the grandmother? was pretty much on top of what Danni was doing (as much as you can be - that age is difficult to fully know everything going on).  I was confused about the mother shipping her off during a divorce and did they even mention her father?  I can see the grandfather letting her run up the street to give/get a textbook (wasn't that her excuse?) but he should have realized she should have been back within 30 minutes tops.  I thought it strange to OpalNightstream that the grandfather was playing video games! 

Count me in as shocked the school had so many kids skipping classes.

I wonder if Danni was really bullied by her clothes.....she looked like every other teenager. 

On a shallow note, I did think the women in Danni's family were really pretty.

I cannot imagine the fleeting hope of being told they had her on surveillance only to find out it was 6 months old.

I honestly felt for Ja'Michael's mother.....there is no way it is not horribly painful to realize your child has killed someone.  She didn't murder anyone, her son did and the best she can hope for is some type of forgiveness.  She is desperate in a different kind of way than the victims family.  All the way around, it is horrible.

I do think Danni told Ja'Michael she was pregnant and yes, young girls should be taught this is NEVER a good idea.  I also agree Danni wasn't dead, hence the sock.

[LGGirl]

On 5/5/2018 at 2:10 PM, sinycalone said:

The aunt did say she was criticized by Danielle for being too much in her business...so I'm guessing the aunt backed off a bit.  In the interview, the aunt added that in retrospect she should have been even more "in her business."  Yep....another instance of realizing too late adults need to supervise teenagers...not worry about upsetting them by laying down rules.

The aunt did the best she could.   She was not her mother.  I would think the aunt and her grandmother gave Danielle a lot of leeway because her mother was absent and felt sorry for her.  I got the impression that Danielle’s mom just didn’t want to deal with her so she pawned her off on her own mother.   All this could explain why Danielle may have been so crazy regarding the beak up with her boyfriend.  

In defense of the grandmother, she brought her kids up before the age of cellphones and internet.  It’s easy for kids to live double lives with today’s technology.   The grandmother would have no idea what is really going on and how to find out.  

[PepperMonkey]

Wow, guys, not to pick a fight or anything, but I find it incredibly ageist that we talk about the grandfather like he's too old to even bother staying alive, let alone play a video game.

Mr. Monkey and I are both 60 and we have an MMORPG that we've played together for a while, and in which we've met a bunch of good, solid, like-minded online friends; and we both have a couple things we like to do on Xbox and PS4. We're not addicted; we do lots of other things besides, but playing video games helps your eye-hand coordination and keeps your mind sharp.

Maybe her grandpa plays a couple hours a week and he had just sat down to play and she asked if she could take a book back, in which he thought, hey, no harm in that. 

Time can get away from you a little bit, so he realized much later (maybe?) that she should have been home by now. 

I'm thinking the fault lies with Je'Michael, and not Danni's grandfather who thought it was okay for her to run a quick errand, especially since she had seemed to be pretty responsible up to that point (straight As and all...).

[Ohmo]

49 minutes ago, PepperMonkey said:

Wow, guys, not to pick a fight or anything, but I find it incredibly ageist that we talk about the grandfather like he's too old to even bother staying alive, let alone play a video game.

Mr. Monkey and I are both 60 and we have an MMORPG that we've played together for a while, and in which we've met a bunch of good, solid, like-minded online friends; and we both have a couple things we like to do on Xbox and PS4. We're not addicted; we do lots of other things besides, but playing video games helps your eye-hand coordination and keeps your mind sharp.

Maybe her grandpa plays a couple hours a week and he had just sat down to play and she asked if she could take a book back, in which he thought, hey, no harm in that. 

Time can get away from you a little bit, so he realized much later (maybe?) that she should have been home by now. 

I'm thinking the fault lies with Je'Michael, and not Danni's grandfather who thought it was okay for her to run a quick errand, especially since she had seemed to be pretty responsible up to that point (straight As and all...).

I don't think the emphasis was on the video games.  That just happened to be what the grandfather was doing.  I think the point was that Dannie played her grandfather.  He was less likely to give her the "side eye" about giving a classmate a notebook at 10 pm at night.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Ohmo

[Rowan]

On May 8, 2018 at 11:37 AM, PepperMonkey said:

Wow, guys, not to pick a fight or anything, but I find it incredibly ageist that we talk about the grandfather like he's too old to even bother staying alive, let alone play a video game.

Mr. Monkey and I are both 60 and we have an MMORPG that we've played together for a while, and in which we've met a bunch of good, solid, like-minded online friends; and we both have a couple things we like to do on Xbox and PS4. We're not addicted; we do lots of other things besides, but playing video games helps your eye-hand coordination and keeps your mind sharp.

Maybe her grandpa plays a couple hours a week and he had just sat down to play and she asked if she could take a book back, in which he thought, hey, no harm in that. 

Time can get away from you a little bit, so he realized much later (maybe?) that she should have been home by now. 

I'm thinking the fault lies with Je'Michael, and not Danni's grandfather who thought it was okay for her to run a quick errand, especially since she had seemed to be pretty responsible up to that point (straight As and all...).

I don't side-eye the grandfather for playing video games. Hell, I'm in my forties and I still enjoy playing Guitar Hero. I even play it on expert level, so you know that means I spent more than a little time rocking out on a plastic mini-guitar. I don't even really judge him for not being concerned that she needed to give/get a text/notebook so late in the evening. I have a teenager, and goodness knows teens do that kind of last minute stuff all the time. I just can't get over not being on top of her returning in short order given the excuse she used to head out and then waiting till the morning to do something about it. He was either being irresponsible or she had begun pulling this type of behavior before and he felt that he would deal with her when she finally decided to show up, then, when she didn't,  realized it was something far more serious. I actually do feel some sympathy for him, nobody thinks things like this are going to happen, but you know they can, so when she didn't come home at least in hour and she isn't answering her phone, you go to the house she was supposed to be at. Then freak out from there. 

[AnnieHeights]

On ‎5‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 11:37 AM, PepperMonkey said:

Wow, guys, not to pick a fight or anything, but I find it incredibly ageist that we talk about the grandfather like he's too old to even bother staying alive, let alone play a video game.

I certainly didn't mean to come across as agiest, I am in my forties and I guess I was just picturing my own grandfather which would have been extremely odd picturing him ever playing video games (he was a farmer and would be 103 if he were still alive).  Sorry if I offended anyone :)    

[PepperMonkey]

I wasn't really offended... Just kind of shocked that a few people thought it was odd that an old guy was playing a video game. Guess I kind of did the math of the ages of the characters and realized the grandfather was probably about my age or maybe a bit older and I still play games.

I don't really think of myself as old.

Edited May 11, 2018 by PepperMonkey

[Ohmo]

Last night we had "Silent Witness," which was Dateline's version of "The Fitbit Murder" from 48 Hours.  Since it was 2 hours, the Dateline episode had a lot more detail.  Doug Detrie was certainly not "Boyfriend of the Year" material for me, but I noticed how George spoke to Andrea in the interview.  That he was going to explain this so she would understand it correctly.  Seems like he's got some issues with women.  Nothing changed my mind from the 48 Hours episode, though.

[biakbiak]

Any lawyer that would allow George to testify amd do an interview with Dateline telling that completely ridiculous story is a really bad lawyer.

[cooksdelight]

Read the attorney’s quotes in this article about Detrie’s upcoming trial. 

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/2018/05/08/douglass-detrie-stand-trial-endangering-nicole-vanderheyden-sister/590405002/

[Madding crowd]

Nicole was a pretty woman who was a high school teacher and mother yet had bad taste in men. Why would she even leave a bar with a creepy looking guy like Burch? Then her boyfriend doesn’t wonder why a breastfeeding mother didn’t come home all night? I’m guessing these were hard partying people. Burch’s story didn’t hold up at all but I wonder if her boyfriend was also involved. 

[LGGirl]

I don’t think the boyfriend was involved.   I just think he figured she was at a friend’s house and was happy she was not home bitching at him.  

But I agree.  She should have not been allowed to leave.  If the boyfriend was not such a jerk and treating her with some respect then she would have never left.  

He indirectly put her in harms way. But my guess is he feels no responsibility at all. 

[ButterQueen]

On 5/8/2018 at 12:37 PM, PepperMonkey said:

Wow, guys, not to pick a fight or anything, but I find it incredibly ageist that we talk about the grandfather like he's too old to even bother staying alive, let alone play a video game.

Mr. Monkey and I are both 60 and we have an MMORPG that we've played together for a while, and in which we've met a bunch of good, solid, like-minded online friends; and we both have a couple things we like to do on Xbox and PS4. We're not addicted; we do lots of other things besides, but playing video games helps your eye-hand coordination and keeps your mind sharp.

Maybe her grandpa plays a couple hours a week and he had just sat down to play and she asked if she could take a book back, in which he thought, hey, no harm in that. 

Time can get away from you a little bit, so he realized much later (maybe?) that she should have been home by now. 

I'm thinking the fault lies with Je'Michael, and not Danni's grandfather who thought it was okay for her to run a quick errand, especially since she had seemed to be pretty responsible up to that point (straight As and all...).

I agree, but he waited until the next day to find out why she didn’t return home.  No excuse for that.

[mythoughtis]

The boyfriend Doug Detrie is obviously no prize based upon the stories of other woman and now his child’s aunt.   When you go out as a couple, you go home as a couple. he chose to separate himself from her halfway through the night and not catch up with her, that was immature and boorish behavior.  Nicole chose to go to  a different bar with his friends, and then to hitchhike ( my guess) home. She was a 30 something teacher and should have  known better. There was Uber, cabs and friends available.  

I’d like to know where Nicole’s  other two children were that night, and how Doug managed to sleep until 11 with a six month old.  His reporting her missing earlier wouldn’t have saved Nicole though. 

Tne suspects story was something right out of a movie. The photos of his fishing trip are really scary. He looked like he didn’t have a care in the world and yet he just murdered someone a few hours earlier. 

[One Tough Cookie]

I fell asleep a while, but woke for the final 45 minutes and have just one question:  When did Dateline become the Andrea Canning Fashion Show?

[cooksdelight]

I cannot stomach Andrea, she is an uptalker. If you listen to her, she ends every phrase or sentence with a high note. Drives me nuts.

[Madding crowd]

34 minutes ago, One Tough Cookie said:

I fell asleep a while, but woke for the final 45 minutes and have just one question:  When did Dateline become the Andrea Canning Fashion Show?

I also noticed her many different outfits.

[Lovecat]

The last Mankiewicz episode I watched featured about 7 different outfits (different shirts, no tie, different tie, no hanky, different hanky) and no one felt the need to comment.  The differences in women’s outfits are inherently more noticeable, but that doesn’t mean they change any more or less frequently than their male colleagues.  The number of outfits is dependent upon the number of different interviews that are woven into the story, whether the correspondent is male or female.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Lovecat

[iMonrey]

Anyone else think maybe Angela killed Nicole? There's just something vaguely disturbing about her.

[ari333]

54 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Anyone else think maybe Angela killed Nicole? There's just something vaguely disturbing about her.

Was Angela the dark haired one who was interviewed who was on the bf's side? And there were the two twin looking blondes who were friends of Nicole. They seemed a little ... IDK what..