All Episodes Discussion

[iMonrey]

"The night time stopped" was not a new episode, despite what my DVR thinks. It wasn't even a particularly interesting episode, as it became obvious very early on who murdered Moriah Wilson and why. The bulk of the episode was spent on the manhunt for her killer. 

The only thing I found sort of interesting is that the friend with the podcast and the boyfriend whose girlfriend killed her had the same last name - Strickland. And the friend who found her body was named Caitlin and the girl who killed her was named Kaitlin. 

[TVbitch]

Was this shown last night? We had local news in the slot, so I figured it was a rerun. Was there any actual new information?

[Medicine Crow]

6 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

Was this shown last night? We had local news in the slot, so I figured it was a rerun. Was there any actual new information?

Yes, it was on last night.  Hosted by Keith Morrison.  I thought it was okay ... rather twisty/turny.

[Irlandesa]

40 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

Was this shown last night? We had local news in the slot, so I figured it was a rerun. Was there any actual new information?

It was labeled a new episode but it was essentially a rerun of a case they've covered before.  I only watched the intro before I recognized the case so I didn't watch it, but if my memory is correct,  it was the case of the excellent bicycle athlete (victim) who dated on and off another bike athlete who had another on and off girlfriend (killer) and they sometimes overlapped. 

They were all in Austin for a race.  The killer killed her romantic rival and then went on the run.  She ran to a remote place (in Costa Rica maybe?) and established her yoga practice before getting caught and extradited back to the US.

 

[Cementhead]

1 hour ago, TVbitch said:

Was this shown last night? We had local news in the slot, so I figured it was a rerun. Was there any actual new information?

I almost watched it but I have recently caught on to Dateline's trick of luring us in to watch what is basically a repeat with their promise of there being something "new" to the story.  

Now, to be fair, when I pulled up the information description on my tv guide it said that the killer's plastic surgeon was going to be interviewed this time which would have been some new content to add to the original episode but it wasn't enough to get me to tune in.

[Medicine Crow]

3 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

It was labeled a new episode but it was essentially a rerun of a case they've covered before.  I only watched the intro before I recognized the case so I didn't watch it, but if my memory is correct,  it was the case of the excellent bicycle athlete (victim) who dated on and off another bike athlete who had another on and off girlfriend (killer) and they sometimes overlapped. 

They were all in Austin for a race.  The killer killed her romantic rival and then went on the run.  She ran to a remote place (in Costa Rica maybe?) and established her yoga practice before getting caught and extradited back to the US.

 

I thought the Costa Rica destination was to get plastic surgery to change her appearance.  No??

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, Medicine Crow said:

I thought the Costa Rica destination was to get plastic surgery to change her appearance.  No??

It was but I am pretty sure she also became a part of the community there.  I don't know what would have happened if she hadn't gotten caught but the plastic surgery would give her more freedom. 

But like I said, I didn't rewatch because, even though it was a good story, it wasn't one I needed to see again.

 

[TVbitch]

20/20 was a new story and pretty good again this week. David Muir keeps it pretty newsy. 

[pdlinda]

18 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

20/20 was a new story and pretty good again this week. David Muir keeps it pretty newsy. 

What was with David Muir's "sideburns"...he looked kind of weird...

[iMonrey]

21 hours ago, Cementhead said:

Now, to be fair, when I pulled up the information description on my tv guide it said that the killer's plastic surgeon was going to be interviewed this time which would have been some new content to add to the original episode but it wasn't enough to get me to tune in.

Oh, was that the "new" information? I wondered. And it was probably something that wound up on the cutting room floor the first time they aired the episode, having been deemed irrelevant. 

[GiandujaPie]

Re: Kaitlin Armstrong/Mo Wilson episode on Friday.

The new information that I thought was more interesting is the fact that Kaitlin tried to escape custody but was caught after running for about 10 minutes. The footage was pretty funny and I wish they had shown more of it. I also thought it was interesting that the jury took less than 2 hours to convict. Bet that humbled the arrogant defense attorney who was interviewed on the first version claiming that all of the evidence was wrong and that his client would be exonerated. 

My husband and I were very interested in this case due to the Costa Rica angle. We first heard about this case as we were planning a trip to Costa Rica so we did get kind of a kick about her trying to escape there and then getting caught due to the yoga mat she was spotted carrying around in the airport. Looking back, I'm sure she wishes she had just bought another yoga mat once she was in Costa Rica instead of bringing her old one. LOL

We also thought it was very strange that Kaitlin seemed to go from a normal person (albeit with some red flag jealousy issues) to a murderer pretty quickly. Usually there's a sign of a person potentially escalating their jealousy towards murder. I'm surprised that neither Dateline or 20/20 ever dug up a former boyfriend or a former acquaintance who could say that she definitely had an insane jealous streak. 

Anyway, it does seem like such a loss that Mo Wilson was murdered as she did seem like a great person. Kaitlin definitely should have aimed her ire towards Colin the boyfriend instead.

[LuvMyShows]

On 4/6/2024 at 6:04 PM, Medicine Crow said:

I thought the Costa Rica destination was to get plastic surgery to change her appearance.  No??

Actually, no. She went to Costa Rica to escape and blend in to what is apparently a very active yoga community, with apparently lots of blondes. She went to an entirely different country for the plastic surgery, but the agents didn't know that at the time, so they spent over a week walking up and down the Costa Rican beaches looking for her...they said they logged 10 miles a day of walking.

[Mondrianyone]

7 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

She went to an entirely different country for the plastic surgery

I'm pretty sure she remained in Costa Rica but went to San José, the capital, for the surgery, instead of staying in the small surf town.

On 4/8/2024 at 6:36 PM, GiandujaPie said:

a former boyfriend or a former acquaintance who could say that she definitely had an insane jealous streak. 

She murdered a woman for having lunch with her boyfriend. She would've torched the whole town with flamethrowers if they'd actually slept together. I really would like to know about her past history of jealousy. Or maybe she just had a psychotic break. She certainly was a persistent escape artist--that clip with her in the striped prison pants was like a Benny Hill skit.

[iMonrey]

Sunday's (or Saturday's?) episode was The House in the Woods, which I'm sure is a repeat since it was only an hour long. The husband hired a co-worker to kill his wife while he was playing poker with friends nearby. There was another similar case where the husband himself was the killer, and used the poker game as his alibi but it turned out he left the poker game just long enough to drive home, kill his wife and drive back. That's what I thought this story was a repeat of, but different situation. 

Something they mention almost in passing was that he was a former hockey player who was known for starting fights. That should have been a red flag right there.

I don't know what kind of monster can send someone to his house to murder his wife when both his children are in the house. This guy, I guess.

[TVbitch]

I think Friday's epsiode was new to me. Yeesh, kind of a mess. Feel bad for the son/family and hope they can move on now. Maybe they will sue the police department, but that will just consume more years of their lives. I was pretty shocked the bench trial ended in conviction with zero physical evidence. They really only had the ex-wife's statement and she did not witness the crime. 

The new reporter is okay. I appreciate that her wardrobe is "talking to you about your murdered loved one" understated. Her vocal approach is a bit too "AMSR anxiety reducing meditation" for me. Better than "I'm the star here!" Andrea. But I do prefer how Josh, Denis and Keith bring their own low-key charisma, while still being appropriate. 

[nora1992]

Superficial of me, but it was a welcome change that it wasn’t the spouse this time.

[Irlandesa]

This was the new reporter's second case, right?  I think she improved from her first time. 

2 hours ago, nora1992 said:

Superficial of me, but it was a welcome change that it wasn’t the spouse this time.

My thoughts exactly but I'm truly disgusted by the actions of the cops. 

[Medicine Crow]

4 hours ago, TVbitch said:

I think Friday's epsiode was new to me. Yeesh, kind of a mess. Feel bad for the son/family and hope they can move on now. Maybe they will sue the police department, but that will just consume more years of their lives. I was pretty shocked the bench trial ended in conviction with zero physical evidence. They really only had the ex-wife's statement and she did not witness the crime. 

The new reporter is okay. I appreciate that her wardrobe is "talking to you about your murdered loved one" understated. Her vocal approach is a bit too "AMSR anxiety reducing meditation" for me. Better than "I'm the star here!" Andrea. But I do prefer how Josh, Denis and Keith bring their own low-key charisma, while still being appropriate. 

I liked everything about her!

[Mondrianyone]

Can someone put me out of my misery and tell me who the grown daughter looked like? Someone famous, obviously, maybe an actress--or not. It was driving me crazy throughout the entire episode.

[TVbitch]

She didn't ping my celebrity look-alike radar @Mondrianyone, but she kind of had a Laura Linney from Ozark vibe. Maybe even a Julianne Moore with gray hair. 

Edited April 14 by TVbitch

[iMonrey]

Justice for Joy - was there justice? I'm skeptical about April Atkins, the murderer's wife. I don't altogether buy she was innocent in all of this and had to keep quiet because she was so afraid of her husband. She sat on this for years, she could have gone to the police and asked for protection at any time. (And good Lord she had a scary looking mug shot, she looked like she was possessed by a demon.)

The fact that the police shielded a murderer because he was an informant is disgusting, but what's even worse is telling Joy's son they believed his father was responsible. It's one thing to ignore evidence, it's another to accuse an innocent man to his own child. 

18 hours ago, TVbitch said:

The new reporter is okay. I appreciate that her wardrobe is "talking to you about your murdered loved one" understated.

During one of her interviews she was wearing earrings that looked like two paper clips. Andrea would be appalled!

[12catcrazy]

The "Justice for Joy" episode really bothered me.   That poor woman was murdered by that psycho over a lousy $20 pot deal and the police investigating her murder were told to back off from the scumbag because he was an informer?  Good God, unless he was an informant on some multi-million dollar cartel sting, it seems that Joy's life was valued at zero by that police force.     And unfortunately, I can believe that April was scared of her ex-husband for years.  She probably got the crap kicked out of her by him on more than one occasion and knowing that he could kill her friend and burn down her house, she could easily think that he had nothing to lose if he killed her too.   It wouldn't surprise me that maybe he was so murderous towards Joy because maybe she had told April to get the hell away from this guy.  There has to be more to the murder/house burning than just the pot deal, although from reading the newspaper everyday, people are killed for a lot less. 

[Lsk02]

7 hours ago, Mondrianyone said:

Can someone put me out of my misery and tell me who the grown daughter looked like? Someone famous, obviously, maybe an actress--or not. It was driving me crazy throughout the entire episode.

I was getting Kelly Reilly (Beth Dutton) vibes from her, but I can see the others mentioned, too. And maybe a little Sissy Spacek? 

[TVbitch]

Friday was a new episode but one that should have been an hour. To stretch it they do a bunch of red-herring stuff which always irks. Law enforcement was competent. Josh was looking good!

I notice they are doing more Canadian epsiodes now. I don't mind, but wonder why. Surely there is no hortage of murders in the U.S. 

[Medicine Crow]

As a Canadian & former Torontonian, I remember that case very well, but I didn't know who did it.  Great episode!!

[UsernameFatigue]

3 hours ago, Medicine Crow said:

As a Canadian & former Torontonian, I remember that case very well, but I didn't know who did it.  Great episode!!

I vaguely remember the cases, but was living in Vancouver at the time of the murders and they didn't get a lot of coverage there. What I find odd is that the case was solved in November of 2022, and I don't remember media about that either. I thought Dateline did a great job covering the murders, and thought for once it was a case that warranted a two hour episode. 

Medicine Crow, I would love Dateline to cover the murders of Barry and Honey Sherman. That is such a fascinating case, but they may not since it is still unsolved. 

[MsJamieDornan]

3 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

, I would love Dateline to cover the murders of Barry and Honey Sherman. That is such a fascinating case, but they may not since it is still unsolved

That case fascinates me !

[Medicine Crow]

9 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I vaguely remember the cases, but was living in Vancouver at the time of the murders and they didn't get a lot of coverage there. What I find odd is that the case was solved in November of 2022, and I don't remember media about that either. I thought Dateline did a great job covering the murders, and thought for once it was a case that warranted a two hour episode. 

Medicine Crow, I would love Dateline to cover the murders of Barry and Honey Sherman. That is such a fascinating case, but they may not since it is still unsolved. 

Me too!  I was thinking about them & wondering why it hasn't been solved.

[CrazyInAlabama]

 

I'm guessing that the Canadian episodes aren't really filmed with Dateline hosts, but the hosts do a separate shot with their questions, and then it's splice together.   I've read that a lot of the filming is done with others doing the questions, and the hosts are in the separate shot to disguise that, and very little of the show is actually the host with the guests.  

Networks buy shows from other countries, rework it, and only have to put their hosts in the interview shots.  It's a quick way to cover cases from somewhere else, where the U.S. network might not get access.   It's also a way to expand the shows they produce in a year, without the production costs of sending hosts and crews to redo work that's already available.  

 

Edited April 22 by CrazyInAlabama

[12catcrazy]

3 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I

 To kill two people, wouldn't there have to be more than one person to control them?   

A baffling case.   It would be interesting to see Dateline's show about it. 

 

 

I don't think there are any shortage of cases where one person killed multiple people (an especially shocking one for you younger people - look up Richard Speck). 

And I hope that more and more cold cases are cracked using DNA.  Amazing how the guilty party in this case was the last of the brothers tested because he had led such a squeaky clean life.  It's weird how a person can rape and murder two people and then go on with their life as if they had never done anything wrong.  I'm glad that he was finally caught.  

[UsernameFatigue]

4 hours ago, Medicine Crow said:

Me too!  I was thinking about them & wondering why it hasn't been solved.

If you get Crave TV, they did a 4 part show on the case last year called Billionaire Murders. Very interesting.....

[UsernameFatigue]

3 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I

I'm guessing that the Canadian episodes aren't really filmed with Dateline hosts, but the hosts do a separate shot with their questions, and then it's splice together.   I've read that a lot of the filming is done with others doing the questions, and the hosts are in the separate shot to disguise that, and very little of the show is actually the host with the guests.  

 

I don't know how much of that type of interviewing might apply to Dateline. In 2021 NBC did an interview with Keith and Josh about doing their jobs during a  pandemic. Josh said that they could definitely get good interviews by interviewing the various participants remotely, but he preferred to interview one on one where he could read someone's body language, etc. better. Keith also said he can sit down to interview someone without having ever met them, but feel like he knows them due to the prep work the team does with the interviewees beforehand. 

I also remember an interview with Andrea where she said that she started writing movie scripts as a way to fill time when she was travelling for her job, and had spare time while on a plane or in a hotel room.  

I also think many of the interviewers actually develop a bond with some of people they are interviewing, as they often interview them over multiple years. I remember a case where Keith happened to see someone he knew from a previous case driving on the Pacific Coast Highway. She recognized him and if I recall correctly, they pulled over and got caught up with each other.  I think it lead to another episode, where Keith described their chance encounter. 

 

 

[Medicine Crow]

1 hour ago, UsernameFatigue said:

If you get Crave TV, they did a 4 part show on the case last year called Billionaire Murders. Very interesting.....

Were they able to hone in on anyone?  I thought it was someone that hated one or both of them ... her because of how she acted in society & his bad relationship with his former business partner.  Their deaths were beyond them just getting killed (I thought).

[UsernameFatigue]

2 hours ago, Medicine Crow said:

Were they able to hone in on anyone?  I thought it was someone that hated one or both of them ... her because of how she acted in society & his bad relationship with his former business partner.  Their deaths were beyond them just getting killed (I thought).

The series is basically the reporting of Toronto Star reporter Kevin Donovan. It could be shorter than 4 episodes, but also was quite interesting. Donovan took the Toronto Police Service to court several times to get access to information. One even ended up at the Supreme Court, and Donovan and the Star won that case.

Donovan ends with saying that he has his opinion on who the murderer is, and that his opinion is shared by the TPS. It is pretty clear, without him saying it, that he thinks the murderer is Honey and Barry's son Jonothon. I think he is right. 

[Irlandesa]

On 4/21/2024 at 1:05 AM, UsernameFatigue said:

I thought Dateline did a great job covering the murders, and thought for once it was a case that warranted a two hour episode. 

I'm a bit in between.  I don't think it needed an hour of red herrings but I do think 90 minutes might have been the right amount of time. Normally, ancestral DNA stories can start to sound the same on true crime shows but I liked learning something new in this one. Having a lack of members of First Nations submitting to the DNA websites and having such close ties were two things I don't recall ever seeing discussed on this show before.  In fact, I don't recall hearing about them anywhere else. 

[iMonrey]

On 4/20/2024 at 5:08 PM, TVbitch said:

Friday was a new episode but one that should have been an hour. To stretch it they do a bunch of red-herring stuff which always irks. Law enforcement was competent. Josh was looking good!

I thought it could have been an hour too. The problem was that we already knew from the start they narrowed the suspects down to five brothers through DNA research because they showed that in the preview snippets that open the show. So what's the point of including entire segments on investigating the boyfriend, and then, of all things, Anwar Sadat! 

[LuvMyShows]

On 4/21/2024 at 3:53 PM, UsernameFatigue said:

I remember a case where Keith happened to see someone he knew from a previous case driving on the Pacific Coast Highway. She recognized him and if I recall correctly, they pulled over and got caught up with each other.  I think it lead to another episode, where Keith described their chance encounter. 

Yep, I remember that. It was interesting to me because I had never thought about how a bond may be formed between the host and the subjects. Also, it cracked me up thinking about driving on the PCH and just seeing Keith Morrison in the car next to you!

[Peanut6711]

Two things struck me about 4/19's episode:

-If the guy hadn't killed a rich socialite, I don't think the other woman's murder would have been solved. Sad as is the state of thing, they likely kept after that very long cold case because of who the younger girl was. 

-There's some bad blood or something in the murder's family. I mean, he's the so-called best of the brothers and he raped and killed 2 women. There had to be some dark shit in his nature as it's a big jump from burglary to rape & murder. He could have just ran out of the house when he got caught. Both women were probably too shocked and scared to have done much. He stayed and raped and murdered them because he wanted to, despite what he tried to explain years later. Glad he surrendered peacefully and trusted his retired cop friend.  

Edited April 27 by Peanut6711

[Peanut6711]

4/26 "Chameleon"  (Better title would have been "The Face in the Dress")

The NJ DA who gave that psycho serial killer immunity on the 2nd murder and the FBI boss who didn't put full resources on this case in the interest of protecting other women/future victims should both be fired.  I hope this episode produces enough outrage to make some heads roll (no pun intended.) I don't know how they can live with themselves after screwing over that family, the daughter and sister of which were awesome.  Those ladies were truly inspiring. Loved how the one detective said if he ever went missing, he'd want them on the case.   This was a really engaging episode and with plenty of participants telling the story, Andrea didn't even ask too many of her normal jackassy questions. 

Edited April 27 by Peanut6711

[MerBearHou]

40 minutes ago, Peanut6711 said:

4/26 "Chameleon"  (Better title would have been "The Face in the Dress")

The NJ DA who gave that psycho serial killer immunity on the 2nd murder and the FBI boss who didn't put full resources on this case in the interest of protecting other women/future victims should both be fired.  I hope this episode produces enough outrage to make some heads roll (no pun intended.) I don't know how they can live with themselves after screwing over that family, the daughter and sister of which were awesome.  Those ladies were truly inspiring. Loved how the one detective said if he ever went missing, he'd want them on the case.   This was a really engaging episode and with plenty of participants telling the story, Andrea didn't even ask too many of her normal jackassy questions. 

Agreed completely — I was horrified to see how this episode ended.  Immunity for that psychopath?  After all of those decades of tenacious efforts by the daughter, sister, detectives and that determined FBI agent, it is a travesty.  

[Annber03]

53 minutes ago, Peanut6711 said:

4/26 "Chameleon"  (Better title would have been "The Face in the Dress")

I thought the same thing. Those photos were so eerie. And the story about the box. Jesus Christ. 

Quote

Those ladies were truly inspiring. Loved how the one detective said if he ever went missing, he'd want them on the case.   

Same. Between them, Diane and Summer, and the FBI agent who kept working the case even when his superiors didn't want him to, I feel like they could all open up their own private detective agency or something. They were amazing and I'm so glad they were so dedicated and so through in their efforts. Just such a shame that it feels like it was all for naught - I don't care how old this guy gets, he should never, EVER get out on parole. Ever. 

I was so terrified that we'd find out something horrible had happened to Diane. And then you've got John's girlfriend Sheila, who was shocked to find out that he'd been married much of the time they'd been together, as well as the woman that was about to take her daughter, leave her husband, and marry him. I hope they are all constantly thanking their lucky stars, 'cause damn. 

My mom speculated about this, and i'd wondered, too, if we'd find out that John's name was a cover. John Smith is such a common, ordinary name, it almost feels like it HAS to be a cover name for someone like him. Shows how cocky he got, though, at having gotten away with his crimes for so long - he made so many mistakes with his lies (the stuff about the suitcases, for instance) and you could tell, on his phone call with Sheila, that he was struggling to keep all his lies and stories straight*. He got sloppy.

*I was struck by that moment in hos phone call with Sheila when he was like, 'I don't think she's dead, but I do think someone might've killed her." Um....? 

But yeah. This was a wild story from start to finish. 

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, Annber03 said:

My mom speculated about this, and i'd wondered, too, if we'd find out that John's name was a cover. John Smith is such a common, ordinary name, it almost feels like it HAS to be a cover name for someone like him.

They met his brother so I doubt it's a cover name. 

3 hours ago, Peanut6711 said:

The NJ DA who gave that psycho serial killer immunity on the 2nd murder and the FBI boss who didn't put full resources on this case in the interest of protecting other women/future victims should both be fired. 

The DA should never make a deal like that without discussing it with the victim's family to know their preferences.  Or they should have made immunity contingent on actually finding her body based on the information he provided.

As for the FBI, the agent's supervisors likely did nothing wrong.  The FBI likely didn't have investigative authority to pursue these cases formally.  The FBI can't just investigate whatever they want.  There are guidelines about what falls into the federal jurisdiction and these murders likely didn't.  Each one was under the authority of the state where they took place.

[badgerwoman]

I am with the FBI agent who thinks there are other victims.  Let's hope some cases get solved and John Smith never, ever gets a chance to get out of jail.

[Peanut6711]

9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

As for the FBI, the agent's supervisors likely did nothing wrong.  The FBI likely didn't have investigative authority to pursue these cases formally.  The FBI can't just investigate whatever they want.  There are guidelines about what falls into the federal jurisdiction and these murders likely didn't.  Each one was under the authority of the state where they took place.

It was a violent crime(s) by a potential serial killer who crossed state lines and involved multiple states across the country in both the investigation and the pursuit. It was not out of their scope/ability to give assistance, hence how the agent was allowed to work the case and provide their resources; it just wasn't a priority.  It was pretty clear the agent's boss just wasn't interested in it. The agent basically said he felt vindicated when they made gains in the case to prove it was one worth working and deserved to be given more time/attention.  

[Irlandesa]

29 minutes ago, Peanut6711 said:

It was a violent crime(s) by a potential serial killer who crossed state lines and involved multiple states across the country in both the investigation and the pursuit.

They didn't even have evidence of homicide, death, or even a crime, for most of the time, he was under investigation.  He wasn't under indictment or arrest so he was free to move about the country.

I read the agent's boss saying that he could look into the death if he wanted as long as it didn't interfere with his own cases the way I tell people I supervise they can play solitaire as long as they are done with their regular work but have to stay available to the public. 

[Peanut6711]

34 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

They didn't even have evidence of homicide, death, or even a crime, for most of the time, he was under investigation.  He wasn't under indictment or arrest so he was free to move about the country.

I read the agent's boss saying that he could look into the death if he wanted as long as it didn't interfere with his own cases the way I tell people I supervise they can play solitaire as long as they are done with their regular work but have to stay available to the public. 

My point wasn't that he wasn't free to move around the country (though when your wife disappears the police generally expect you to be reachable/keep current contact on file for further questions/follow up), it was that by moving around the country, leaving missing (and presumed dead which his first wife was declared) women in different states, and continuing a pattern that suggested there could be future (as well as more past) victims, it became a case that the FBI would assist in/be involved in as a means of pooling resources to gather evidence and build the case that would otherwise be difficult for multiple local counties with much smaller budgets and lesser resources available.  You previously stated that "The FBI likely didn't have investigative authority to pursue these cases formally.  The FBI can't just investigate whatever they want.  There are guidelines about what falls into the federal jurisdiction and these murders likely didn't." And I outlined why it would fit an FBI case to assist on. Which it was, the boss just didn't prioritize it. The agent said so.  So I maintain my stance of kudos to the agent who took this seriously, cared about justice for the victims, was concerned about preventing future ones, and put in all that extra time. He helped put a dangerous psycho behind bars, which might not have ever happened if the agent's boss had anything to do with it. Hopefully the Dateline episode helps gives credit where it's due and brings about a closer look/internal investigation into why this almost fell between the cracks if it hadn't been for that diligent agent. Smith was a danger to society and women's lives were at risk. Playing cards when there's no work to do/no customers in what I assume is a non-law enforcement workplace is hardly the same analogy. 

[Madding crowd]

There was a good movie made about this case called Murder on Pleasant Drive. Adam Arkin played John. I remember him playing John with such flat affect it was chilling. I thought Fran’s sister and daughter were very brave and persistent.

[iMonrey]

"If These Walls Could Talk": I think the jury got it right, I was thinking 2nd degree murder too. Most likely case scenario, they got in a huge fight and things got out of control

That said, I could make a case for reasonable doubt, despite the fact that Scott looked like a creepy weirdo in every picture of him. Talk about being unphotogenic. A lot of the prosecution's case rested on speculation that seemed questionable. For example, the retired DA who said Susann must have been placed face down because the blood had pooled in her back. But the 911 operator told Scott to turn her over and do CPR, and it seemed like she was still alive at the time because the daughter said she was making noises. 

I also keep going back to the more famous "Staircase" case, in which prosecutors insisted the bruising was inconsistent with a fall down the stairs, something I disagree with, and it often turns out a lot of the bruising is caused by the handling of the corpse after death. Also, the dog's DNA on the scarf does make it plausible they might have been tugging at her while she lay on the floor overnight. 

I also wonder, if Scott actually murdered her then staged the fall and went back to sleep upstairs why he didn't clean up the crime scene with all the blood and hair! And there's that spaghetti pot, it does make it seem like she either went down the stairs with the pot (in case she got sick) or else went downstairs to fetch the pot to take back upstairs with her and fell on her way back up. If Scott put that there to stage the scene, again I go back to wondering why he didn't do a better job cleaning up. You'd have to think he was a criminal mastermind and a blithering idiot at the same time.

There was one photo of Susann where she's dressed up like Anne Boleyn. WTF. Talk about creepy foreshadow. 

I wish NBC would dispense with these idiotic Twitter prompts. We're talking about a murder here and little chyrons are popping up asking "Have you ever traveled to a foreign country? Have you ever left a date early?" How dumb do they think their audience is that they have to be prompted for discussion topics? And how much is Twitter paying them for this?

[Peanut6711]

Re: 5/3's "If Walls Could Talk"

I kept hoping we'd get an interview with her first husband. Would love to hear his impression of this.  What a strange bunch.  Probably a strange marriage too. Had to wonder if Susanne had developed some kind of hero worship for Scot when he was treating her. Creepy though to leave the husband you're trying to get pregnant to for the fertility doctor who you're a patient. (Anyone else just watched this season of AHS: Delicate? I had this image of Anna leaving Dex for Dr. Hill in my head! LOL).  Rather unethical on Scott's part as well. 

I agree the 2nd degree was probably the right verdict. I also think she was still alive when they "found her," which is why he wanted the pulse ox to know just how much breath was still left in her after strangling her.  Also struck me as off that a doctor would need to rely on the 911 dispatcher for CPR instructions. Odd too that he didn't clean up the blood. 

I also think he did some mental manipulation with the kids. I suspect they probably originally knew more or could have recollected more important details, but he played with their heads and kept them from talking about their mother. Probably didn't get them any therapy either. Too bad Suzanne's family was in the dark about the investigation. 

36 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I wish NBC would dispense with these idiotic Twitter prompts. We're talking about a murder here and little chyrons are popping up asking "Have you ever traveled to a foreign country? Have you ever left a date early?" How dumb do they think their audience is that they have to be prompted for discussion topics? And how much is Twitter paying them for this?

This.  I noticed the foreign country one and thought it was stupid. Otherwise, I try to just block them out. Talk about going completely off topic. That old phrase, What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? sure comes to mind. 

[Irlandesa]

All I could think of about was how unlikeable these people are.  The wife is sending topless photos to people on Patrick.net (never heard of the place)?  Kind of terrible. Husband hitting up random people on Facebook.  Kinda worse.

The wife cheats on first hubby with their fertility doctor?  Pretty terrible.  Doctor hits on his vulnerable patient?  So much worse.  I'm surprised he didn't lose his medical license over that. 

I think the argument that the son conveniently forgot at trial, the blood and the marks on the body all make me lean towards murder.  I don't think it was intentional like I did at the beginning when I thought he might have been drugging her.  But I don't think she simply fell down the stairs.