All Episodes Discussion

[Mondrianyone]

19 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Plus, I don't think she would have put her dog in danger. Poor puppy

The dog's death broke my heart. But things often don't go according to plan when a murder's being carried out. She (and her husband) had a pretty weird approach to their own safety. They had a house full of guns, an idea that at the very least backfired (pun intended, I guess). Their kid routinely exited the house through his bedroom window, long after he was too old for such nonsense, and left the window open, which they must have known about at some point. They had an alarm system that they didn't arm when they were in the house, asleep--at their most vulnerable. So the fact that the dogs were in danger of being shot seems totally on-brand for these people.

I'm not trying to make a case for her involvement. Maybe she had knowledge, maybe she didn't. But I'm not ruling it out either. Who knows what kind of arrangement might have existed?

[UsernameFatigue]

On 1/15/2024 at 9:46 AM, iMonrey said:

 

Well, I doubt Nick stands to inherit one thin dime from her at this point. Can't think of any motive Corey would have anymore.

Oh, I don't mean because Nick would stand to inherit. I just think that anyone evil enough to plan to kill the people who adopted him from an orphanage and gave him every advantage in life, could be evil enough to finish the task. If only because Corey doesn't buy his remorse act and he will not have wormed his way back into her life. 

We have seen cases where an adult child has murdered a parent and tried but failed to murder the second parent. And the surviving parent has gone on not only to forgive the child but let that child back into their life. Nick always it appeared got his way, right up until Corey tried to hold him accountable for the money he owed them. I think he is evil enough to blame Corey for ruining his life. I don't believe for a minute that he has remorse, other than remorse for not being successful in his plan. 

Edited January 16 by UsernameFatigue

[Pi237]

Corey was very matter of fact about her dog being shot. Maybe it was enough time had passed that she was able to talk about without breaking down, but she seemed so removed from it. Again, could be a coping mechanism. I shouldn’t judge but her story seemed suspicious to me. 

[iMonrey]

8 hours ago, Mondrianyone said:

I'm not trying to make a case for her involvement. Maybe she had knowledge, maybe she didn't. But I'm not ruling it out either. Who knows what kind of arrangement might have existed?

If you are suggesting Corey was in on the plot to kill her husband it makes no sense that neither her son nor his wife (nor either of the hitmen) turned states evidence against her. It's not as if her son showed any kind of devotion to his parents. If he was willing to actually murder them (or even one of them) just for money it doesn't seem very likely he'd turn around and protect them without getting anything in return.

I think shows like this have just conditioned us to suspect the spouse. 

[Mondrianyone]

13 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I think shows like this have just conditioned us to suspect the spouse.

That suspicion proved well founded when it came to one of the spouses. Who got off ridiculously lightly. So as I said, we have no way of knowing what kinds of arrangements people make with each other.

[EtheltoTillie]

Speaking of different networks airing the same cases, Netflix has a new three part series American Nightmare, which is a rehash of a case that was on Dateline a while back.  Couple where fiancé was tied up and woman was kidnapped. The police thought they had made up the whole thing. Do y’all remember that one?  Actually an interesting case. I won’t be watching the Netflix version. I guess the couple got a nice payday for participating. I don’t begrudge them the money. 

Edited January 18 by EtheltoTillie

[UsernameFatigue]

19 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Speaking of different networks airing the same cases, Netflix has a new three part series American Nightmare, which is a rehash of a case that was on Dateline a while back.  Couple where fiancé was tied up and woman was kidnapped. The police thought they had made up the whole thing. Do y’all remember that one?  Actually an interesting case. I won’t be watching the Netflix version. I guess the couple got a nice payday for participating. I don’t begrudge them the money. 

I just finished watching the Netflix version and found it worth watching. As often happens when two (or even more) outlets cover the same case, different info is revealed. I'll share a few things below but will put it under spoilers, so that I don't give away info for anyone that may want to watch the Netflix version. 

Spoiler

They focused a lot in the third part on the police detective who actually connected the June/15 home invasion to Denise and Aaron's case. from March/15.  I don't remember that in previous versions of the case. Also that the kidnapper had been known as the "creeper" in the same neighbourhood as Denise and Aaron lived, back as far as 2009. 

Another tidbit was that the FBI agent who did pretty much nothing to investigate the case was an ex boyfriend of Aaron's ex girlfriend (the one who was the intended victim). When Denise's lawyer complained that there was a conflict of interest, his complaint was dismissed. 

They also talked about the report on what the police did (or how little they did) on the case and their attempts to pin it as a hoax on Denise and Aaron, including lying outright to Aaron about his lie detector results. 

The last time I saw an update on Denise and Aaron, they were married with a daughter. They now have a second daughter. I am glad they are doing well, and certainly deserve any and all money they have received due to the gross mishandling of their case. 

 

[EtheltoTillie]

4 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I just finished watching the Netflix version and found it worth watching. As often happens when two (or even more) outlets cover the same case, different info is revealed. I'll share a few things below but will put it under spoilers, so that I don't give away info for anyone that may want to watch the Netflix version. 

  Hide contents

They focused a lot in the third part on the police detective who actually connected the June/15 home invasion to Denise and Aaron's case. from March/15.  I don't remember that in previous versions of the case. Also that the kidnapper had been known as the "creeper" in the same neighbourhood as Denise and Aaron lived, back as far as 2009. 

Another tidbit was that the FBI agent who did pretty much nothing to investigate the case was an ex boyfriend of Aaron's ex girlfriend (the one who was the intended victim). When Denise's lawyer complained that there was a conflict of interest, his complaint was dismissed. 

They also talked about the report on what the police did (or how little they did) on the case and their attempts to pin it as a hoax on Denise and Aaron, including lying outright to Aaron about his lie detector results. 

The last time I saw an update on Denise and Aaron, they were married with a daughter. They now have a second daughter. I am glad they are doing well, and certainly deserve any and all money they have received due to the gross mishandling of their case. 

 

 

Thanks, maybe I'll tune in for the third episode.

[LuvMyShows]

On 1/13/2024 at 6:23 PM, Annber03 said:

I was also amazed at the police going to the wrong house. I wonder just how often that kind of mix up has happened. Probably more often than one would like to think. 

It happened to me, with emergency responders. It was late on a Christmas Eve and they were knocking at the door, so I opened it. They immediately barged in fast and hard without saying anything, and I asked what was going on.  That's when it became clear that they had the wrong house; it was really the next-door neighbors'.

On 1/14/2024 at 2:27 AM, TVbitch said:

I started watching during the 911 call playback and thought the wife did it, cuz she had that breathy stutter that other women have use to feign panic for the cops.

On 1/15/2024 at 4:40 PM, Mondrianyone said:

The problem with that theory is that it's hard to tell which came first, the chicken or the egg. In her case the endless repetitions and the forced stammering seemed like a copy of something we see in bad acting. 

[coughChaceyPoyntercough]

[LuvMyShows]

Not related to a current Dateline ep, but certainly to prior ones...just found out that the LA Innocence Project is representing Scott Peterson, as in, the 'murdering-his-wife-Laci-and-fetus' Scott Peterson. As I posted in the General True Crime forum, with all the evidence against him, I'm not sure how he could be innocent. I generally have a lot of faith and respect for the Innocence Project, but this has me shaken.

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

I generally have a lot of faith and respect for the Innocence Project, but this has me shaken.

From what I've read, the LA Innocence Project is not affiliated with the more well known Innocence Project. It's not part of the Innocence Network. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innocence_Network

That said, unless they're just trying to raise their profile, I'd be curious about what post-conviction evidence they think has been held from Peterson.

Edited January 19 by Irlandesa

[pdlinda]

16 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I'd be curious about what post-conviction evidence they think has been held from Peterson.

I heard that there are two alternative theories about the murder that the Court didn't permit Geragos to pursue at the original trial for the defense: 

(1) Burglaries in the neighborhood prior to the murder, and (2) the unborn baby's body was found far from Lacey's body and there was a theory that gypsy's were seen in the neighborhood at the time of the murders and they have rituals involving taking babies out of the womb. (SORRY FOR GRAPHIC DESCRIPTION) and placing them in a separate spot from the murder victim.

My thought:  It's CALIFORNIA!!  They must have a large contingent of "bright eyed and bushy tailed" law students at whichever university the Innocence Project is established and it's a great case to give the students (or recent graduates) practice in litigating a case with a wide following.

If I were Scott, I'd appreciate having the opportunity to get out of prison for a number of days when this "appeal" is going to be heard.  It does break up the monotony of everyday prison life.  It's true the inmate has to be ready to depart the prison facility at 3 am to be driven to the court, but I'm sure Scott welcomes the change of pace.  

Who knows...there might be some "legal technicality" that a CA judge might think worthy of warranting a new trial; however, for Lacey's family (her mother, in particular) this must be devastating news.  

[Vivigirl10]

I'll just come out and say it, I just didn't find Corey likeable.  I'm not taking away what a devastating and terrible thing she has lived through.  She is correct with what she stated:  your life can literally be taken away from you in the blink of an eye.  I feel for her.  I didn't find her likeable but I also don't think she had anything to do with the murder. 

It took me a while to come to that conclusion.  How often to we hear the cops talking about someone not acting as you would "expect" them to?  Or overreacting or underreacting?  I too thought her stammering and hyperventilating seemed like a really, really bad acting job.  Almost laughably bad. I immediately thought she was guilty.  Turns out I was wrong.  You can see how often that a conclusion is jumped to based on behavior.   

The son was over a year old when he was adopted.  I wonder what his life was like in the orphanage prior to adoption?  Maybe he had an attachment disorder?  

That daughter-in-law will find another schmuck down the road and tell them, I did this once and got away with it, we can do it again.  Scary stuff.  

[iMonrey]

20 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

As I posted in the General True Crime forum

Where is this forum? Link please?

[pdlinda]

20 hours ago, pdlinda said:

Who knows...there might be some "legal technicality" that a CA judge might think worthy of warranting a new trial

I just head Gerragos (Scott's original defense lawyer) on Fox News and he said the issue the Innocence Project is basing their appeal on is that one of the original jurors lied on the questionnaire all jurors fill out before they are picked or rejected.  That, to me, seems a little "flimsier" then the original alternative theories I heard earlier in the week that I posted upthread.

[Annber03]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Where is this forum? Link please?

Here you go :):

 

[Tdoc72]

On 1/19/2024 at 3:44 PM, LuvMyShows said:

It happened to me, with emergency responders. It was late on a Christmas Eve and they were knocking at the door, so I opened it. They immediately barged in fast and hard without saying anything, and I asked what was going on.  That's when it became clear that they had the wrong house; it was really the next-door neighbors'.

[coughChaceyPoyntercough]

Lol…I always refer to her as Chaney Panter. That video of her in the ambulance always cracks me up. 

[Ohmo]

No discussion about the Dan Markel updates?  Charlie Adelson has been found guilty and is now in jail for first-degree murder. 

His mother and father tried to leave for Vietnam and the FBI took them off the plane.  His mother is now in jail awaiting trial. 

And oh goodness, she didn't realize that she was still being recorded!

Glad that Dan's parents now legally get to see their grandchildren.

I still think Wendi knew somehow before the murder.  I hope prosecutors keep digging.

If you didn't watch the episode, try to find it somehow.  Bunch of new information.

[Ohmo]

Charlie Adelson found guilty in Dan Markel murder-for-hire conspiracy. Everything you need to knowA

Florida dentist was convicted of having his brother-in-law killed. His mother was charged in the plot days later.

Donna Adelson pleads not guilty in Dan Markel murder, asks to be moved off suicide watch

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I still think Wendi knew somehow before the murder.  I hope prosecutors keep digging.

If you didn't watch the episode, try to find it somehow.  Bunch of new information.

I wasn't going to watch it because I've heard a podcast but then I remembered about the brother being convicted and the mother arrested so I decided to watch anyway.

Wendi is interesting to me.  I think she was fine with involving her family in trying to strongarm her ex into giving up custody.  One thing I didn't like about this episode is that they kind of framed the custody dispute from her perspective (Danny didn't treat her "well") but didn't really get into details about what that meant.  They made it seem like he was simply mean when it was a straight-up custody dispute and it got lawyer ugly.  His 'meanness' was that they were living in one part of FL when they separated and she wanted to move to be closer to her parents hundreds of miles away.  However, you usually can't take the kids hundreds of miles away in a shared custody agreement so she was "stuck" where she was unless Dan agreed to let her have primary custody or he moved too. 

I don't think Wendi will ever be arrested.  I go back and forth on how much she knew.  Driving by Dan's house was weird.  But I don't think she would have mentioned the hitman joke/comment if she knew her brother was behind Dan's death.  I do think it's interesting that she perjured herself on the stand by saying he didn't make those comments.  I'm not sure what she was going for. 

Charlie's story was something else.  In all that time, he never once thought to go to the police? 

 

 

[badgerwoman]

10 hours ago, Ohmo said:

No discussion about the Dan Markel updates?  Charlie Adelson has been found guilty and is now in jail for first-degree murder. 

His mother and father tried to leave for Vietnam and the FBI took them off the plane.  His mother is now in jail awaiting trial. 

And oh goodness, she didn't realize that she was still being recorded!

Glad that Dan's parents now legally get to see their grandchildren.

I still think Wendi knew somehow before the murder.  I hope prosecutors keep digging.

If you didn't watch the episode, try to find it somehow.  Bunch of new information.

It sure seems like Donna Adelson is a very controlling woman.  Turns out the other son briefly mentioned is estranged from his family - he married a woman who is not Jewish and is also from India - or at least her parents are.

[pdlinda]

15 hours ago, Ohmo said:

And oh goodness, she didn't realize that she was still being recorded!

I, also, wasn't going to watch as I knew about the case, but decided to and I'm glad I did.  It was one of the few "update" episodes that actually  had A LOT of new info.

It is hard for me to believe how utterly STUPID that family was (is)!  How in the world did Charlie think he could get away with his scheming behavior?  So STUPID!  How did Donna think that she would be allowed to abscond to Vietnam with with her husband  without the FBI intervening?  They KNEW (or should have known) that the FBI was doing surveillance on them.  They KNEW (or should have known) that the hitmen procured by Charlie's GF were convicted felons who were known to law enforcement.  It's simply too BIZARRE!   

That Donna talked so freely on the jail phone line was another "joke."  One of the FIRST thinks defense attorneys advise their clients upon visiting them in jail is:  "Don't forget that EVERY WORD you say on the phone is recorded and can be used against you by the prosecution if you implicate yourself in any way with this crime."  

Also, Wendi is a trained attorney.  Her inability to "problem solve" her custody situation with Dan without resorting to violence is problematic until and unless you factor in her coming from that HIGHLY DYSFUNCTIONAL FAMILY!!

Danny's parents were the highlight of the episode.  They were very effective in sponsoring that "grandparents law" to make sure others in their situation get to see their grandchildren.  When I saw the original episode, I was so heartbroken that not only did Wendi refuse the children contact with Dan's parents but actually changed the children's last name to ADELSON.  Let's hope that somehow, someway the children resume assuming Dan's last name. 

As for Wendi, I would definitely support delving as far as necessary into any role she may have had in the horrible murder of Danny.  Such a TRAGEDY!!

[Ohmo]

2 hours ago, pdlinda said:

That Donna talked so freely on the jail phone line was another "joke."  One of the FIRST thinks defense attorneys advise their clients upon visiting them in jail is:  "Don't forget that EVERY WORD you say on the phone is recorded and can be used against you by the prosecution if you implicate yourself in any way with this crime."  

I was floored by that, too!  Especially since they played the part of the recording that says "This call is not private."  And she starts talking about countries without extradition agreements.  It was obvious what they were planning,

 

15 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I do think it's interesting that she perjured herself on the stand by saying he didn't make those comments.  I'm not sure what she was going for. 

Somewhere in that part of the episode, I thought I heard that she was given some sort of immunity.  I thought, "Why?"

I think it's clear that Donna drove the plot and Charlie was involved in making it happen, but I have a tough time believing that Wendi didn't know anything before or after the crime occurred.  I don't think she told them to have Dan killed, but I DO think she knew it was going to happen and did nothing to prevent it OR she knew her family was responsible and didn't go the police.  She had gotten exactly what she had wanted---custody of the kids, so she stayed quiet for her own sake.  To me, she's an accessory, either before or after the fact.

2 hours ago, pdlinda said:

Danny's parents were the highlight of the episode.  They were very effective in sponsoring that "grandparents law" to make sure others in their situation get to see their grandchildren.  When I saw the original episode, I was so heartbroken that not only did Wendi refuse the children contact with Dan's parents but actually changed the children's last name to ADELSON.  Let's hope that somehow, someway the children resume assuming Dan's last name. 

Agreed.  I'd like to know what last name the boys now use.  If it's Adelson, I hope they will use Markel one day.  They're getting older.  At some point, especially with meeting Dan's parents, I hope they begin to question whatever the Adelsons have told them, do research on their own, and seek out some of their father's friends.

[Ohmo]

15 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Charlie's story was something else.  In all that time, he never once thought to go to the police?

Because Charlie's story was completely bogus!  The jury was back in THREE hours.  As I was watching his testimony, I was thinking, "Oh come on!"

[nora1992]

The Markel case has been covered several times over the years by many shows.  Does anyone else wonder if Dateline was the only tv show mentioned in the phone calls?

[iMonrey]

I think I vaguely remember this case - so many similar cases, they all run together after awhile. But this was definitely worth a re-watch.

I'm willing to entertain the possibility that Wendi did not know of the plot beforehand. Only because during her interrogation she herself threw out the idea that someone might have done this for her thinking it would help her. She even sort of threw her brother under the bus. Maybe she was afraid the cops were already onto them and was trying to cover how own ass, but I could be swung either way on that point.

However, I firmly believe she discovered her family's involvement after the fact and kept her mouth shut, which would make her an accessory after the fact at the very least. It's interesting that authorities gave her immunity to testify, in that nothing she testified could be used against her.  I think it suggests the cops probably don't think they will ever have enough evidence against her to arrest her.

I wonder if Donna's husband Harvey will be arrested too. 

This definitely sounded like something the mother and son cooked up together.

[Ohmo]

11 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

However, I firmly believe she discovered her family's involvement after the fact and kept her mouth shut, which would make her an accessory after the fact at the very least.

Yes, she said she was very close to Charlie, and Charlie's ex-girlfriend and the father of the ex-girlfriend's kids is directly involved in doing the shooting?  Plus, Donna is signing checks so Charlie's ex-girlfriend has a "job"?  If Wendi didn't know before Dan was killed, there's no way I buy that she didn't put the pieces together after the fact.  She's chosen to do nothing because she now has her kids.  The show made a point of bringing up how smart Wendi is.  She's not clueless.

[Irlandesa]

7 hours ago, pdlinda said:

It is hard for me to believe how utterly STUPID that family was (is)!  How in the world did Charlie think he could get away with his scheming behavior? 

He probably didn't think they'd tie the murder to the killers because they have no connection to Dan.  And really, get yourself a dumb or lazy cop (of which we've seen many on this show), I can sort of see why he thought he'd get away with it.  The real idiotic thing was the paper trail. 

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

However, I firmly believe she discovered her family's involvement after the fact and kept her mouth shut, which would make her an accessory after the fact at the very least.

I don't know FL law but in many places, accessory after the fact needs active participation in a coverup.  Simply knowing or suspecting who murdered Dan isn't enough. 

[UsernameFatigue]

Wendi is a really bad actress. Her crying at the police station when she found out that her ex had been murdered was laughable. I actually did laugh when she wailed "My poor children". The children that she tried to move away from her ex, and was only stopped by a judge? The ex that the family was going to try to buy off with a million dollars to go away and abandon his children? The children that she changed the last name of, and the ones that she kept from their paternal grandparents for six years, only to then allow visitation when said grandparents were successful in having a law passed so they could see their grandchildren? Those poor children? STFU Wendi. 

I don't for a minute think that Wendi had no clue what was going to happen to Dan, and I think the charade was carried on even up until Donna made those phone calls complaining that Wendi had basically abandoned her brother. After all, the whole point of the murder was to get Wendi sole custody of the kids. One would think if she ends up being implicated down the road, the kids would go to their paternal grandparents if maternal grandma, uncle and mom are all convicted? I don't know how maternal grandpa hasn't been arrested. Wasn't he fleeing to Vietnam as well?

I hope when those kids are old enough, they shun any maternal family members, take back their rightful surname and are able to start to make up for the time with their paternal family members that their maternal family members took away from them.

[Irlandesa]

26 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Wasn't he fleeing to Vietnam as well?

Moving to Vietnam in itself isn't a crime and it's not the reason she was arrested.  It might be why she was arrested when she was, though.  They probably didn't want to arrest her when they did but felt they had no choice once they learned she was leaving.

And in order to keep both in the US, they only needed to arrest the mother or the father and the evidence against the mother is stronger.  She has direct ties to the money issued to Charlie's girlfriend.

[UsernameFatigue]

14 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

Moving to Vietnam in itself isn't a crime and it's not the reason she was arrested.  It might be why she was arrested when she was, though.  They probably didn't want to arrest her when they did but felt they had no choice once they learned she was leaving.

And in order to keep both in the US, they only needed to arrest the mother or the father and the evidence against the mother is stronger.  She has direct ties to the money issued to Charlie's girlfriend.

My point was that I am sure he knew why they were moving to Vietnam.......

I hope they are able to dig up evidence to convict the father too, as well as Wendi. 

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, UsernameFatigue said:

My point was that I am sure he knew why they were moving to Vietnam.......

Sure I understand what you're saying but I don't think they have any evidence on him. Just deciding to leave with her doesn't prove that he knows she's guilty.  It doesn't even prove she knows she's guilty.  They could claim they wanted to leave because they feared malicious prosecution. 

[pdlinda]

17 hours ago, Ohmo said:

The show made a point of bringing up how smart Wendi is. 

She may be BOOK SMART; HOWEVER, SHE HAS NO COMMON SENSE!!  NONE!! 

That SLIMY FAMILY didn't surface a few minutes ago!  Their slime filled buckets of dysfunction were infecting Wendi during her entire life!  She's a PRODUCT of these scheming sleaze balls that have been "operating" in shady ways for YEARS!  Wonder how much daddy Harvey was involved??

That Dan involved himself with that family at all was a pitiful shame for all concerned.  Too bad he didn't sense the dire straits he was leading himself into with Wendi before they had children.  

Edited January 22 by pdlinda

[JudyObscure]

The Bridge -- James Chambers

This one would have only been an hour if every single person hadn't talked...soo...sloooow.  Most boring episode ever with the most incredibly stupid people .  Howard with his impulse to shoot a friend because they couldn't agree on what to do that afternoon.  Then buried the body,  then dug it up, then set fire to it, then dismembered it "so it would be easier to carry,"  then dropped  it over a bridge and promptly forgot which one.  

You have to wonder what kind of SAT scores it takes to get into that Bible College.

I hated Hannah almost as much as Howard with her head hung down during the police interview and the whiney mumbling.

The police kept bringing Howard in then letting him go home, even after he had shown himself to be a flight risk.

Just so annoying.  The entire episode

[ridethemaverick]

Wendi was in on it. She was the only one who knew Dan's exact whereabouts and movements on that day. 

She threw her brother under the bus for the same reason she tried to throw her ex boyfriend under the bus: to keep the heat off of herself.

[GiandujaPie]

Catching up on the last two weeks. 

"Ghosts Can't Talk" 

The son Nick is a disgusting psycho creep. He was clearly the golden child for his whole life, coddled by his parents, and then found a psycho girlfriend/wife. I can't believe he actually thought he was smart enough to make money as a day trader. He seemed like he was not too bright. I'm glad Corey finally recognized her son for what he was and is not talking to him any longer. 

My sister-in-law and her husband have an only son who has dropped out of college now for several years and lives at home in his bedroom and barely ever comes out of his room when we do visit at Christmas. I can't help but think he expects to inherit everything from his parents as an only child, and possibly as the only grandchild on his maternal side and so he has absolutely no motivation to do anything. He doesn't have a job, doesn't go to school, we have no idea what he does all day. I don't think he has murderous tendencies towards his parents but Dateline really makes you think the worst of people and anyway he would be the most obvious suspect. 

As to the episode about the Markels. So glad that Donna got arrested and in the most public and humiliating way. Charlie (and his lawyer) are morons if they thought anyone would believe their story that they were being extorted. If it was true, all he had to do was call the police and tell them "Hey I know who killed Dan!" and the whole thing would have been over. Glad that the jury saw right through it. And as for Wendi, there is no way she didn't know, and even if she didn't know before it actually happened, she had to know that her dear brother was involved once it was proven that the 3 who did do it had ties to her brother. That family is disgusting all around. Curious about the one brother who did manage to get away though. 

 

[For Cereals]

On 1/24/2024 at 11:27 AM, GiandujaPie said:

Catching up on the last two weeks. 

"Ghosts Can't Talk" 

The son Nick is a disgusting psycho creep. He was clearly the golden child for his whole life, coddled by his parents, and then found a psycho girlfriend/wife. I can't believe he actually thought he was smart enough to make money as a day trader. He seemed like he was not too bright. I'm glad Corey finally recognized her son for what he was and is not talking to him any longer. 

My sister-in-law and her husband have an only son who has dropped out of college now for several years and lives at home in his bedroom and barely ever comes out of his room when we do visit at Christmas. I can't help but think he expects to inherit everything from his parents as an only child, and possibly as the only grandchild on his maternal side and so he has absolutely no motivation to do anything. He doesn't have a job, doesn't go to school, we have no idea what he does all day. I don't think he has murderous tendencies towards his parents but Dateline really makes you think the worst of people and anyway he would be the most obvious suspect. 

I didn’t find Corey dislikable.  The son for sure definitely has a chip missing.  Although his parents cut him off after giving him the 30k, I can’t imagine that they wouldn’t have helped him given how he grew up, but he’s just disturbed and greedy. Can’t believe but can that they went so light on Jackie.  If she cared so much, she could’ve warned the parents or gone to the police.  She was definitely in on it.

[ButterQueen]

On 1/22/2024 at 12:45 AM, UsernameFatigue said:

Wendi is a really bad actress. Her crying at the police station when she found out that her ex had been murdered was laughable. I actually did laugh when she wailed "My poor children". The children that she tried to move away from her ex, and was only stopped by a judge? The ex that the family was going to try to buy off with a million dollars to go away and abandon his children? The children that she changed the last name of, and the ones that she kept from their paternal grandparents for six years, only to then allow visitation when said grandparents were successful in having a law passed so they could see their grandchildren? Those poor children? STFU Wendi. 

I don't for a minute think that Wendi had no clue what was going to happen to Dan, and I think the charade was carried on even up until Donna made those phone calls complaining that Wendi had basically abandoned her brother. After all, the whole point of the murder was to get Wendi sole custody of the kids. One would think if she ends up being implicated down the road, the kids would go to their paternal grandparents if maternal grandma, uncle and mom are all convicted? I don't know how maternal grandpa hasn't been arrested. Wasn't he fleeing to Vietnam as well?

I hope when those kids are old enough, they shun any maternal family members, take back their rightful surname and are able to start to make up for the time with their paternal family members that their maternal family members took away from them.

I agree 100%.  I firmly believe Wendi is involved.  I do wonder what her dad knew.  There is no way he didn’t at least know after the fact.  They are a horrible family and my heart breaks for the kids.  Their lives have been such a mess thanks to their mom and her family.  I feel so bad for Dan’s family.

 

 

 

[iMonrey]

"The Sleepover." Really frustrating, the husband got away with murder. I can sort of see why maybe the jury had reasonable doubt, the mistress Jennifer was so sketchy, and I didn't believe a word out of her mouth either. But it's hard to remember a jury doesn't have the case laid out for them like we do on Dateline. It was clear to me that Greg murdered his wife and Jennifer was in on it.

Something I picked up on was the "missing" shell casing. I don't think it was actually missing - I think the casing they found inside Sherri's clothing was the "missing" one that Greg couldn't find and was searching for with a metal detector. I think he actually found and disposed of the other one. Funny that never occurred to anyone.

Always heartbreaking when these things tear families apart, I feel bad for the eldest son and how hard it would be to reconcile with the daughter who defended her father. There were two other kids (besides the step-brother Greg Jr.), I wonder where they stand.

Interesting they never touched on who Jacob's bio father was or if he was ever a suspect.

[Annber03]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Always heartbreaking when these things tear families apart, I feel bad for the eldest son and how hard it would be to reconcile with the daughter who defended her father. 

Yeah, that was rough. I don't think it's a coincidence that the daughter was defending her father, either - with the way Jennifer talked about how she got in so deep with him, and then the talk about how submissive his wife would act around him, and how controlling he was in general, it's not surprising that he'd manage to manipulate his daughter in similar fashion. Ii mean, hell, she moved back in with him not long after her mom's death. All the more opportunity for him to exercise his control over her as a result. 

And yeah, Jennifer...I mean, on the one hand I could maybe understand her hesitation and fear at coming forward sooner, especially after she suspected he'd killed his wife. The whole, "If he can do that to her, what could he do to me?" thing, and all that. And if he was as controlling and manipulative as people claimed, then I feel that would explain some of her behavior on that level, too. 

On the other hand...the idea that she just...never thought to ask about whether or not he was married, the fact that she actively helped dispose of the murder weapon and aided in the coverup to some degree, the fact that she engaged in his "I should just kill her" talk while still thinking he was "just joking"...at best, I think it speaks to how...let's say, incredibly trusting, she was. At worst, she was far more involved than she wants to let on. 

But yeah, regardless of how involved or not she was, I agree that the husband is guilty as hell. 

 

[iMonrey]

I don't buy that Sherri was shot in the parking lot either, that wouldn't make any sense. He wouldn't have forced her into the truck then drove her to the grocery store where there were witnesses and killed her there. He definitely shot her in the backyard then loaded her into the passenger seat and drove to the parking lot to make it look like someone shot her there. I'm not sure whether the witness even heard anything relevant, for all we know it was a completely different argument between uninvolved people.

[12catcrazy]

Yeah a case where the husband got away with murder.  As the son said, he's not going to get justice in this life but probably the next.  

As far as the girlfriend, Jennifer, is concerned, I think she is a real POS.  I don't buy that she didn't know he was married.  I was in the AF many years ago and I can tell you that military bases are like small towns.  Everybody knows everybody and if you don't know the person directly, you know somebody who does.  Jennifer worked with the guy - believe me, somebody would have mentioned his wife and that she was stationed in Greece.    And I think she was fine with the wife being killed - it sure didn't take her very long to move into the house.   If they hadn't granted her immunity to get her to talk, she would have been tried as an accessory.  

[JudyObscure]

Poor Tara.  She would have been two when her mother suddenly disappeared from her life to go to Greece for a year.  That must be experienced just like a death to one that young. Then her mother comes back to life for a few months and then disappears again. No wonder she clings to her murdering father.

I can't really understand military women with young children taking tours without their children. They said she could have taken a longer tour with family included but she elected not to do that because of resettling the kids.  The thing is the military is so good about all that, they pay to pack up all your stuff and ship it overseas.  They provide you with housing and schools  for the children, plus free medical care for all.  Even your dead beat spouse gets to come along.  The third choice would have been to  simply refuse to go anywhere, in which case she wouldn't get to re-up when her enlistment was over, but there's no punishment.  

[TVbitch]

... ... ... I have no words for what a moron that guy was. He probably thought he was giving the performance of a lifetime to those detectives. Maybe they will let him do his "I've been convicted of murder comedy routine" in prison. 

Ah, Josh really seemed to care about helping Valerie move on. Glad he gently pushed her to do so. 

[iMonrey]

Not much of a mystery to "Death at the Spa." All the explosives in the guy's garage was pretty much a dead giveaway. I laughed at the defense attorney pointing to other suspects, like "do they have a garage full of explosives?" He must have been a fairly decent defense attorney though to get a hung jury. I don't know why Stephen didn't stick with him for the second trial. 

1 hour ago, TVbitch said:

Ah, Josh really seemed to care about helping Valerie move on. Glad he gently pushed her to do so. 

Boy was she dumb. I'm sorry, there's just no polite way of saying it. This guy was so obviously guilty they could have covered this in a half hour show.

[MooCat Pretzel]

Josh giving Valerie relationship coaching was worth the 2 hour sit for this episode. Where was he in my 20s?! 😂

Edited February 11 by MooCat Pretzel

[Peanut6711]

On 2/6/2024 at 1:55 PM, 12catcrazy said:

Yeah a case where the husband got away with murder.  As the son said, he's not going to get justice in this life but probably the next.  

As far as the girlfriend, Jennifer, is concerned, I think she is a real POS.  I don't buy that she didn't know he was married.  I was in the AF many years ago and I can tell you that military bases are like small towns.  Everybody knows everybody and if you don't know the person directly, you know somebody who does.  Jennifer worked with the guy - believe me, somebody would have mentioned his wife and that she was stationed in Greece.    And I think she was fine with the wife being killed - it sure didn't take her very long to move into the house.   If they hadn't granted her immunity to get her to talk, she would have been tried as an accessory.  

This!  I couldn't believe the prosecutor gave her full immunity.  They should have been able to smell her involvement from a mile away with the coy and convenient statements she gave over the years. While I think he pulled the trigger, I wouldn't be surprised at all if she was the one to suggest the murder or plant the idea in his head in the first place.  I had to wonder if they would have tried them together, if they would have gotten the conviction(s). Or even if they would have charged her with murder or accessory to murder and gotten her to plead to lesser charges of obstruction of justice and aiding and abetting if the jury might have been more inclined to believe her testimony at his trial. 

 

On 2/7/2024 at 7:41 PM, JudyObscure said:

Poor Tara.  She would have been two when her mother suddenly disappeared from her life to go to Greece for a year.  That must be experienced just like a death to one that young. Then her mother comes back to life for a few months and then disappears again. No wonder she clings to her murdering father.

I can't really understand military women with young children taking tours without their children. They said she could have taken a longer tour with family included but she elected not to do that because of resettling the kids.  The thing is the military is so good about all that, they pay to pack up all your stuff and ship it overseas.  They provide you with housing and schools  for the children, plus free medical care for all.  Even your dead beat spouse gets to come along.  The third choice would have been to  simply refuse to go anywhere, in which case she wouldn't get to re-up when her enlistment was over, but there's no punishment.  

My hubs is from a military family and benefited from travel and educational experiences growing up like this (that he wouldn't have otherwise had) so I agree her kids might have too had they gone along. It certainly sounded like the daughter needed to broaden her horizons. Maybe then she wouldn't have had her head in the sand when it came to her father. Girl couldn't even make the obvious connection that if his mistress was involved, he was too. 

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Not much of a mystery to "Death at the Spa." All the explosives in the guy's garage was pretty much a dead giveaway. I laughed at the defense attorney pointing to other suspects, like "do they have a garage full of explosives?" He must have been a fairly decent defense attorney though to get a hung jury. I don't know why Stephen didn't stick with him for the second trial. 

It is curious that he got a different attorney after the first one provided enough reasonable doubt for 4 jurors. Seems the key to the second trial for him might have just been playing up that kind of doubt/highlighting places where other evidence wasn't there.  While I do think he did it based on the style of the murder (most people don't know how to make bombs yet alone have the chemical conveniently in their garage), I could see where the jurors might have wanted some further connections to sway them.  I kept wondering if they ever traced how the box got there--did he send it through USPS/UPS/FED EX or did he just leave it there since he had keys to the business?

[Ohmo]

3 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Ah, Josh really seemed to care about helping Valerie move on. Glad he gently pushed her to do so. 

I had the same vibe, TVbitch, and I thought of you since we both like Josh.  He did it during the earlier interview and then brought up the texts in the second interview years later.

About both of Stephen's sets of attorneys.  They seemed to fail to understand that when the manner of a crime is that specific, that in and of itself is a piece of evidence.  The first attorney went on about it could have been Elizabeth or the handyman.  If Ildiko had been shot or stabbed, for example, his point would have had more merit.  However, she was killed by a bomb.  The reality is that most people don't know how to make a bomb, even if they search the internet.

Stephen telegraphed his guilt based on the method he chose and how he expertly used that method. To try and suggest other people could have done it and also chosen a bomb is almost ridiculously implausible.

 

[12catcrazy]

29 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

I had the same vibe, TVbitch, and I thought of you since we both like Josh.  He did it during the earlier interview and then brought up the texts in the second interview years later.

About both of Stephen's sets of attorneys.  They seemed to fail to understand that when the manner of a crime is that specific, that in and of itself is a piece of evidence.  The first attorney went on about it could have been Elizabeth or the handyman.  If Ildiko had been shot or stabbed, for example, his point would have had more merit.  However, she was killed by a bomb.  The reality is that most people don't know how to make a bomb, even if they search the internet.

Stephen telegraphed his guilt based on the method he chose and how he expertly used that method. To try and suggest other people could have done it and also chosen a bomb is almost ridiculously implausible.

 

Agree to all of this!  And what I don't understand is that 4 jurors didn't understand this in the first trial.   I always go back to Occam's Razor - a) Stephen had been involved with Ildiko and apparently in deep enough to where he opened a business with her and was still obsessed enough with her to be looking at her emails to other men.  B), she was killed by a bomb going off in a package apparently addressed to her.  Kind of an unusual way to kill somebody outside of political (or ideological) assassination.  But go figure - Stephen had all these chemicals in his garage and knew how to use them to make something go boom.  Kind of an odd hobby and not a common one.  C) - buying the box and the battery.  Nothing to see there if his ex-lover hadn't been blown up but considering both a box of about the size he was buying, and the same kind of battery were in involved in the bomb, well, okay.  Coincidental, but makes you go hmmmm.   D), that performance or whatever the hell it was, that he gave to the cops.  While watching just the bit we were shown it was like "Dude what the hell are you thinking with this?"  Talk about waving a massive red flag!  This guy really did think he was the smartest person in the room (or even the state)!  and as Josh pointed out, when the police was asking him about Ildiko, he was using the past tense when speaking about her, even though she wasn't yet declared dead.  

I was also wondering, because it wasn't mentioned in the show, did he have any insurance on the business or even on the victim since she was a business partner?   You'd think that he wouldn't blow up a business that he was a co-owner of, so was it a matter of him thinking the police would think the same, or that he could gain some insurance payout as well?

Finally, two things - Valerie seemed like a nice woman even if where Stephen was concerned she was dumb as a box of rocks.  I wouldn't doubt that she had friends who tried to tell her so but when people are in love, they truly do seem blind to what's obvious to the rest of the world.  I felt bad for her when Josh showed her those emails but I think he did the right thing (even though it was on national TV).    And we were told that Stephen was collecting disability, which he didn't seem to deserve to get.   That made me angry because I have known people who are truly disabled and who were turned down.  Stephen also obviously had enough money to get himself good lawyers (probably how he got the disability approval).  What did he actually do for a living prior to becoming "disabled"?    

[Mondrianyone]

Well, of course Ildiko lit up a room whenever she entered, and she was the best friend there ever could be and the best aesthetician, and on and on. She would also sleep with your old, unattractive husband at the drop of a hat. Great person, minor flaw.

Did they say that the battery in the bomb had the same lot number as the batteries at that CVS? I wasn't sure I heard right. That would be another rather compelling bit of evidence.

And how did he afford a house that size in Orange County, for heaven's sake, on disability? I thought he was managing the spa and not a full partner, but I could've misheard that as well.

Josh looked good.