All Episodes Discussion

[UsernameFatigue]

I started watching the 65 Seconds epi but only got a few minutes in before I decided that I needed to go to bed. I was struck by how casually the reporter was dressed. She looked like she was out for a walk/jog and just happened to go by that house and stopped to randomly ask questions. I still haven't watched the epi but did fast forward to see if the reporter's choice of clothing improved. I was surprised at how many different outfits she wore, 10 or so I think. Non impressed me, though only one other top looked like it belonged in a track suit outfit. I have actually always liked Andrea's style and jewelry (though it isn't a style I would wear), but haven't really noticed how many wardrobe changes she makes over the course of a two hour show. One for each interview which appeared to be the case in this episode? Now I'll have to pay attention the next episode she is on.

This did lead me though to reflect on the fact that I never notice what the men wear, or how often they might change, so in the interest of fairness I am going to have to start paying attention! 

Regarding the comments above on the drab house where the two teachers lived in The Footprint at the Lake, I also have found that where/how someone lives usually has little bearing on their income. Some people prefer to spend their money on other things and don't take a lot of pride in their surroundings. I will never forget the case of a woman on one of these shows who was a successful business woman, dressed to the nines, beautifully made up, shiny hair...and she was a hoarder.  Such a disconnect between how she presented herself to the world, and her home life. Personally, my house is pretty neat and tidy. In fact I am such a fan of true crime that I have actually thought when leaving my house "If my house was on Dateline, would I be happy with how it looks?" Surely I'm not the only one? Lol. 

Edited October 21, 2023 by UsernameFatigue

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I wish shows like this would leave religion out of the story. I'm so tired of hearing from friends and relatives who go on and on about the murderer's and victim's Christian faith and how involved they were in church etc. etc. Please. Most of the murderers profiled on this show go to church. It doesn't dissuade me from believing they're murderers. 

Seriously, this. How many times have we watched shows like this where they talk up how "God-fearing, church-going" the family/couple was only to find out their behavior was the total opposite of being God-fearing, church-going, etc.. It's to the point now where, the moment I hear people talking about how religious someone/a couple/family is on a show like this, I'm immediately thinking, "Uh-huh, so how long until we get to the reveal of an affair or them being involved in the murder or things of that sort, then?" 

Being religious (or having the perception of being religious, which more often seems to describe a lot of people on these kinds of shows) does not automatically equal being good and innocent, and it amazes me that there are people who still seem to think otherwise. 

[Mrs. P.]

I kept wondering why they didn’t pursue the fact that the husband could describe the supposed intruder so well that the sketch was so clearly identifiable.   Had he known him in the past?

[ButterQueen]

I’ve started watching four times and stopped.  First, a new reporter who was so bland and I hated her original green top.  Second, I knew it was going to be the husband when he was shot first and sounded okay on the 911 call.  I still haven’t made it past the first 25 minutes.  Andrea doesn’t bother me and I love her jewelry.  Give this same predictable story to any regular Dateline reporter and I would have watched it in full at the start. I hope we don’t see this reporter again…she bored me like Natalie Morales used to.  If everyone needed a break, let Lester do the story.

Edited October 21, 2023 by ButterQueen

[patty1h]

Regarding the recent episode "65 Seconds", this is definitely a "seen before" case.  As soon as I heard the details, I said to myself "this is the dude who killed his wife to hide the fact that they were broke!".    Looks like this was covered by 20/20 back in April 2023.

Oh, well... I'm used to rehashed cases in these true crime shows.

Edited October 22, 2023 by patty1h

[iMonrey]

4 hours ago, Mrs. P. said:

I kept wondering why they didn’t pursue the fact that the husband could describe the supposed intruder so well that the sketch was so clearly identifiable.   Had he known him in the past?

They did explain - or at least theorized - that he had seen the guy profiled on the news because he was wanted in the area for multiple break-ins. What I wondered was how he could describe him so thoroughly and yet not mention the fact that he was missing his teeth. So he probably only saw his mugshot on TV, and his mouth must have been closed in it.

4 hours ago, Annber03 said:

It's to the point now where, the moment I hear people talking about how religious someone/a couple/family is on a show like this, I'm immediately thinking, "Uh-huh, so how long until we get to the reveal of an affair or them being involved in the murder or things of that sort, then?"

I don't know why this keeps coming up. It's almost as if the show is trying a misdirect to make us think they must be innocent for the first hour or so, their being so religious and all. Or, to be more cynical, the show is maybe trying to highlight the hypocrisy of their so-called faith. Either way, it's icky.

[Irlandesa]

The new reporter was awful in interviewing the families/friends.  She has the Canning problem of not quite hitting the right tone of trying to appear sympathetic about their loss but also reporting on a gruesome murder.  The reporter was much better with the cops, prosecutors, and lawyers, IMO. Hopefully, she'll improve with practice.

4 hours ago, Mrs. P. said:

I kept wondering why they didn’t pursue the fact that the husband could describe the supposed intruder so well that the sketch was so clearly identifiable.   Had he known him in the past?

The judge didn't allow them to mention that in court, which I thought was bogus.  I get why they threw out the new ex-wife's testimony/recording because it really didn't prove anything about the case, but I thought the sketch was pretty relevant because it was so good and did point to a real person. He didn't personally know the guy in the sketch.  The prosecutors theorized that he saw the guy's picture in an article a local newspaper ran about him weeks or months before the murder.

4 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Being religious (or having the perception of being religious, which more often seems to describe a lot of people on these kinds of shows) does not automatically equal being good and innocent, and it amazes me that there are people who still seem to think otherwise. 

No, but I'd argue that including it is important to keep pointing out how certain things, like religion, can create blind spots.  But I also think it might paint a picture of their lives--like perhaps they're more "traditional," and Nick killed his wife before she could expose his "failure" to provide as a money manager/husband. 

But this group also just has bad judgment.  One of them basically set Nick up with his new wife three months after his wife's death.  Who does that? His wife was murdered and she was going through a bad divorce?  Maybe if they both had partners die but this wasn't the case.  Their situations were profoundly different.

I think she did have bad judgment about when she got involved with Nick but I don't necessarily blame her for getting involved with a guy under investigation for his wife's murder.  Even the cops pretty doggedly pursued the intruder theory.  By the time the heat fell on him more, she was likely already in deep. 

[Ohmo]

On 10/15/2023 at 9:23 PM, CrystalBlue said:

Are we all certain that Peter didn't have anything to do with it and it was all Julius?

I thought it was more likely that if anyone was involved in Manu's killing, it would be Julius and Melanie, not Julius and Peter.  I thought that's where this was headed when the show said Julius stopped at Melanie's bedroom door. 

I still wonder a bit.  She told the police about him, and Andrea got the feeling that Julius was holding something back. Could he possibly be protecting Melanie?

I'd suspect Melanie's involvement before I'd suspect Peter.  Spouses are involved in killing their partners, but I don't see Peter choosing Julius.  I don't think Peter's involved.

[Annber03]

55 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

No, but I'd argue that including it is important to keep pointing out how certain things, like religion, can create blind spots.  But I also think it might paint a picture of their lives--like perhaps they're more "traditional," and Nick killed his wife before she could expose his "failure" to provide as a money manager/husband. 

Oh, yeah, I agree with you that I think the whole "blind spots" thing is why shows like this often include those aspects (that, and I think @iMonrey is also right in that it's a way to highlight the hypocrisy of so many "religious" people out there). Just that I will never cease to be amazed at how many of the family and friends that are interviewed for shows like this seem to continue associating someone being religious with them naturally/automatically being good and trustworthy.

I also like your point about the religion aspect being a window into their lives, and another explanation for why he might've killed her. That makes total sense, I can absolutely see that as a motive for him as well. 

[JudyObscure]

8 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Oh, yeah, I agree with you that I think the whole "blind spots" thing is why shows like this often include those aspects (that, and I think @iMonrey is also right in that it's a way to highlight the hypocrisy of so many "religious" people out there).

Yes, I think TV and movies in general just love to point out what they see as the hypocrisy of religious people.  Non-religious people seem to be looking for that hypocrisy all the time, but it's starting with a false premise to say that people who go to church are saying to the world that they never do anything wrong.  Maybe the main reason they're seeking religious guidance is that they know themselves to be weak in the face of temptation.  It's why so many alcoholics look to help from a "higher power."

For this guy though, I think it was a way to meet chicks. What on earth did those two nice, pretty women see in him?  The second one may not have known he murdered his wife, but she probably had heard his lying story of events and even in that he looked like an idiot.

She should have known he was someone who spent his income on everything but the mortgage payments and someone who thought it would be a good idea to carry his gun into the path of a burglar and then lose control of it.  Why did Mr. "I'd rather kill than be embarrassed' not feel embarrassed  about those things? 

 

[Pi237]

These interview questions are ridiculous. 5 minutes of the sketch artist basically describing what they do.

he would say it needed more age. Wider eyes.

interviewer-so he was being specific to make a sketch to help catch this person?

what? Lmao

and the interviews with loved ones felt so pandering. White eyed smile-what’s the first thing people would notice about her? So, she was loved? Whisper wide eyed smiles.  Ew. If I’m ever murdered, please don’t let them talk me up like I’m some angel that fell from heaven. It’s gross. 

[Pi237]

The second wife, Rachel, was odd as well. She seemed to like the spotlight.  Those recorded conversations were one big word salad.  I thought how’d this shlub get two pretty women?  But Rachel was weird to me. 

[GiandujaPie]

On 10/21/2023 at 9:14 AM, iMonrey said:

The thing that really kind of pissed me off (and this happens a lot) was during the first hour, Heidi's family talked about how much they loved Nick and how great they were together, blah blah blah. Then 70 minutes in, they said they suspected Nick right from the start. Wait, what? Oh, now you tell us? After sitting through an hour of you talking him up? 

 

Quote

 

What kills me about these interviews is that these family and friends are being interviewed after the crime has been committed and there has been an arrest and they still want to go on TV and talk about what a wonderful person they thought this person was. If I had a friend who got arrested and then charged and found guilty of murdering his wife, I would be so angry that I had been friends with someone like that and I wouldn't be going on TV telling the world what a great person he was and how much he loved his wife. I'd be ashamed and angry at myself that I didn't see what was happening. I just don't know how people can sit around and laugh at "good" memories of a man who murdered his wife in cold blood and do it publicly on national tv. 

[iMonrey]

16 hours ago, Pi237 said:

The second wife, Rachel, was odd as well. She seemed to like the spotlight.  Those recorded conversations were one big word salad.  I thought how’d this shlub get two pretty women?  But Rachel was weird to me. 

I cannot imagine surrendering all responsibility for your finances to a spouse, and being oblivious to what was going on in your bank account. I think it just speaks to how desperate some women are to have a man who can take care of them and alleviate them of all responsibilities. So desperate, in fact, that they would marry someone under investigation for murdering their previous wife. And then being in denial about it.

[pdlinda]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I cannot imagine surrendering all responsibility for your finances to a spouse, and being oblivious to what was going on in your bank account. I think it just speaks to how desperate some women are to have a man who can take care of them and alleviate them of all responsibilities

The thing that interested me about him was the fact that they ID'd his family as being in a SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS (I think hardware or a cleaning service???) in the Town and that he was working in the business.  HUHHHH????  His father is (from what I gathered) a wealthy businessman in town and the son and his wife are in such DESPERATE FINANCIAL STRAITS???  How could that be? How could the family not assist the couple with a loan, or salary increase, to alleviate the cash shortfall?  It wasn't as if the couple lived an "affluent" lifestyle.  I'm not seeing where the financial issues originated.

As an aside, I presume that the father PAID for his son's legal defense that must have been very expensive (private attorneys doing trials run up very high bills) and NOW, presumably, dad will be paying for his son's appeal of the conviction.

If dad had used a similar amount of $$$ to correct the cash shortfall that apparently led his son to MURDER, it might have been a better use of his resources.  Just sayin'.....

[JudyObscure]

I think they said right off the bat that he didn't want the family to know because he was embarrassed about his financial mess. Foreclosure was scheduled for the day after the murder (which says a lot right there.)  

I imagine his father was paying him more than enough to comfortably pay his mortgage and had possibly made the down payment for the young couple and maybe bailed him out before.  We know that even after killing someone over it he still couldn't keep his money straight, so he had probably over spent all his life and knew his father would be furious to find out he was doing it again.

I can't blame his family for not getting him out of the mess if they didn't know about it and I really don't think there's any excuse for a married man with a steady job not paying his mortgage payment before anything else.

[Irlandesa]

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I cannot imagine surrendering all responsibility for your finances to a spouse, and being oblivious to what was going on in your bank account. I think it just speaks to how desperate some women are to have a man who can take care of them and alleviate them of all responsibilities.

I don't think it's desperation for a man.  I think she modeled what she likely had been taught growing up--that the man is the head of the household. I once had a roommate who had gone to a deeply religious university like the one Heidi went to and even though she was very independent, she always expected that her husband would be the head of the household when she got married.  The philosophy is that a loving husband would then use that head-of-the-household power to make choices that made his wife happy/served her. 

Heidi got married when she was 20 so I can understand her not knowing better.  It usually takes getting screwed over for women who grew up in this environment to realize that's not the wisest way to be.

It took Rachel 3 kids and about ten years before she started to realize she needed to dump that philosophy.

5 hours ago, pdlinda said:

The thing that interested me about him was the fact that they ID'd his family as being in a SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS (I think hardware or a cleaning service???) in the Town and that he was working in the business.  HUHHHH????  His father is (from what I gathered) a wealthy businessman in town and the son and his wife are in such DESPERATE FINANCIAL STRAITS???  How could that be? How could the family not assist the couple with a loan, or salary increase, to alleviate the cash shortfall?  It wasn't as if the couple lived an "affluent" lifestyle.  I'm not seeing where the financial issues originated.

I did a little more deep diving into this to see if there was more information and it seems like he wanted to keep living the lifestyle he lived when his father paid for everything but he couldn't afford it. 

If Nick didn't want to tell his wife about his money troubles, he probably didn't want to tell his dad.  Not all parents with businesses just give their children money.  I'm guessing the dad's version of helping his kid was to give him a job in the family business. 

There was some more information I found that I thought was interesting and I didn't recall them mentioning on Dateline.  It helped explain why they might have been hesitant in charging him. 

Nick admitted it was his gun that shot Heidi.  He said it happened in the struggle.  So the evidence did point to him shooting her but they couldn't prove their wasn't a struggle until they had the FBI listen to the 911 calls.

And something else that made his attempt to frame the one guy even more diabolical...in the news stories about the theft, it was said that the robber's MO was to strike at 6 a.m.  Nick staged the robbery and murder at 6 a.m.  If that guy hadn't been in jail, Nick might have gotten away with framing him.

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Irlandesa

[Peanut6711]

On 10/21/2023 at 12:14 PM, iMonrey said:

And it took him until after he'd been released from the hospital, made his way to police headquarters, and was interviewed for an unknown amount of time before he got around to asking if his wife was still alive? What? Wouldn't that be the first thing out of your mouth as you were being hauled away to the hospital and every minute afterwards until you got an answer?

100% this! And after he rolled off with that, I turned to my daughter and said, "If the husband doesn't turn out to be the culprit, then he sure didn't love her."  The cops should have pegged him in that moment for sure. How bizarre to prioritize talking to the police before finding out your wife's condition. How could you leave the hospital without finding out if your wife was also laying in a bed there or in the morgue! Who picked him up from the hospital??? Plus, he said he sent her down the steps first, following behind her with the gun.  What a douche.  

Edited October 24, 2023 by Peanut6711

[GiandujaPie]

On 10/20/2023 at 9:14 AM, Peanut6711 said:

Agree!  I spent several segments muttering out loud, "So is the kid missing too? Where is he?"  Dateline could benefit from some better editors. Or "beta watchers."   Later they finally said he was living with Bethany's mother after they suspected abuse from Ronald. But how he got there that night, no clue.  And if the son was living with her mom, was it normal for her to go 3 weeks without seeing him and just responding to FB messages with things like "don't want to talk now?"  Also, while they did indicate she was going to move out, I don't believe they ever said where to. Was she getting another apartment w/out Ronald? Moving in with her mother's to be with her son? Moving back in w/her husband? 

Wish they would have had the police show or comment on the messages she received and exchanged on her phone while at her grandmother's, the last night anyone saw her. 

Got around to watching the episode about Bethany last night and I agree. I kept yelling "where's the baby" and my husband finally told me the baby must be with some other relatives. I don't recall that they mentioned that the baby was living with Kim, the grandmother, until sometime later. Because I kept wondering why no one was concerned about the baby. If Bethany didn't want to talk to anyone for 3 weeks, ok, that's a little weird, but wouldn't grandma want an acknowledgment that the baby was ok? That's what led to the whole Casey/Caylee Anthony situation, because grandma wanted to make sure Caylee was ok. And then even once we knew that Grandma Kim had custody of the baby, I wondered if it was normal for Bethany to go 3 weeks without seeing her kid. I think if the family had raised the alarm sooner and reported her missing earlier, the police might have been able to find more evidence in the apartment to nab Ronald. They never explained how the apartment got cleared out or why all of her stuff was in the trunk of her car (unless I missed it). It's ridiculous to me that the family would have waited 3 weeks to report her missing. Even if she was communicating via text and messenger, they didn't think to verify that it was her or check if she had showed up at work?

[12catcrazy]

14 minutes ago, GiandujaPie said:

 I think if the family had raised the alarm sooner and reported her missing earlier, the police might have been able to find more evidence in the apartment to nab Ronald. They never explained how the apartment got cleared out or why all of her stuff was in the trunk of her car (unless I missed it). It's ridiculous to me that the family would have waited 3 weeks to report her missing. Even if she was communicating via text and messenger, they didn't think to verify that it was her or check if she had showed up at work?

EXACTLY!   Look, I'm old so I just don't understand this business of oh yeah, she's left a young child and she either just sends an occasional text saying she doesn't want to talk or posts something on Facebook, so we're not really all that concerned....   How many of this Datelines have we seen where the victim has been dead or missing for weeks and everybody is all "well they sent us a text so they must be ok".   100% agree - if the family had gone to the cops within a couple of days, there would have been some evidence in the apartment and maybe even a chance to find Bethany's body.  

[iMonrey]

15 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I don't think it's desperation for a man.  I think she modeled what she likely had been taught growing up--that the man is the head of the household.

Eh, you say tomato.

I think marrying someone under suspicion for murdering his previous wife reeks of desperation.

[12catcrazy]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

 

I think marrying someone under suspicion for murdering his previous wife reeks of desperation.

Yeah, but why in hell did she have friends who hooked her up with the guy? In her defense she probably thought that if her friends thought he was ok (and didn't murder his wife), he was ok.  And she was also coming off a difficult first marriage and divorce and maybe Nick was being kind to her in ways that her ex-husband was not.   Not to mention that she probably didn't watch Dateline, because then she'd be savvy like us and run like hell in the other direction at the mere hint that the guy killed his wife. 

[Vivigirl10]

On 10/21/2023 at 10:33 AM, Mondrianyone said:

Watched last night's episode, "65 Seconds," and was interested to see a new reporter. Found her ultimately pretty disappointing.

There were two examples that I absolutely couldn't forget of her hard hitting questions.  Both to Heidi's friend.

Friend: "Nick and Heidi were talking about starting a family, Heidi was very excited about that."

Reporter: "Did Heidi want to be a Mother?"

Friend: "No, she hated children and had already had her tubes tied secretly."  I MEAN COME ON!!!  Was there any alternative answer other than "YES"????

Example 2:

Friend: "I was amazed at the number of people that turned out for Heidi's funeral."

Reporter: "Were you amazed when you saw the number of people that were there?"

I mean just STOP.

12 hours ago, Peanut6711 said:

Plus, he said he sent her down the steps first, following behind her with the gun.  What a douche.  

Knew he was guilty right then. 

I actually thought it was an interesting episode, even knowing that Nick did it.  I also was shocked at his friends still defending him and also found Rachel to be a weirdo. 

 

[ButterQueen]

9 hours ago, GiandujaPie said:

Got around to watching the episode about Bethany last night and I agree. I kept yelling "where's the baby" and my husband finally told me the baby must be with some other relatives. I don't recall that they mentioned that the baby was living with Kim, the grandmother, until sometime later. Because I kept wondering why no one was concerned about the baby. If Bethany didn't want to talk to anyone for 3 weeks, ok, that's a little weird, but wouldn't grandma want an acknowledgment that the baby was ok? That's what led to the whole Casey/Caylee Anthony situation, because grandma wanted to make sure Caylee was ok. And then even once we knew that Grandma Kim had custody of the baby, I wondered if it was normal for Bethany to go 3 weeks without seeing her kid. I think if the family had raised the alarm sooner and reported her missing earlier, the police might have been able to find more evidence in the apartment to nab Ronald. They never explained how the apartment got cleared out or why all of her stuff was in the trunk of her car (unless I missed it). It's ridiculous to me that the family would have waited 3 weeks to report her missing. Even if she was communicating via text and messenger, they didn't think to verify that it was her or check if she had showed up at work?

Her mom had the baby the entire time.

[iMonrey]

21 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

Yeah, but why in hell did she have friends who hooked her up with the guy? In her defense she probably thought that if her friends thought he was ok (and didn't murder his wife), he was ok. 

I don't know this for sure but I assume the friend group was part of Nick's church group. They were so adamant that he was innocent. So, yeah, there was probably a false sense of security in that "he goes to church, he can't be a murderer" mentality. Which circles back to why this show seems to bring that up so often. 

[JudyObscure]

16 hours ago, ButterQueen said:

Her mom had the baby the entire time.

Right, that's how I understood it throughout.  What I didn't understand was this bright wonderful girl Grandma described, not calling to ask about her own baby at least once a day and when  her grandmother and mother were texting a dozen times a day saying, "Please answer, we're worried about you," all they got back was a "I don't feel like talking."  That seemed plausible to them?  

Either she was the most self-centered young woman on earth or the family was being very obtuse.

[patty1h]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I don't know this for sure but I assume the friend group was part of Nick's church group. They were so adamant that he was innocent. So, yeah, there was probably a false sense of security in that "he goes to church, he can't be a murderer" mentality. Which circles back to why this show seems to bring that up so often. 

I think it was a lot of that mentality going on, sprinkled in with some "only God can judge" and "if you ask for forgiveness, you're good as new".  Being deeply religious can make the worst person seem redeemable.   Example... Chris Watts got religious in prison and gets tons of mail from people on his side. 

[LuvMyShows]

9 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Right, that's how I understood it throughout.  What I didn't understand was this bright wonderful girl Grandma described, not calling to ask about her own baby at least once a day and when  her grandmother and mother were texting a dozen times a day saying, "Please answer, we're worried about you," all they got back was a "I don't feel like talking."  That seemed plausible to them?  

Either she was the most self-centered young woman on earth or the family was being very obtuse.

Or some of both. As they explained, each family member thought Bethany was communicating with another family member. But the grandmother is the ONLY one who would know If Bethany checked in on her daughter, and she knows that she didn't. So even though she was worried about Bethany, especially given that Bethany's text replies were terse and avoidant, it had to have been plausible that Bethany didn't check in on her daughter for 3 weeks, because grandma's level of concern was not great enough to do anything additional. Keep in mind that Bethany was still in college, and working a job on the side, with one child who already wasn't living with her, another child on the way with a new boyfriend, and hastily living with him. I don't think thoughtful decision-maker was an apt descriptor, and I'm guessing mom and grandma were used to dealing regularly with the fall-out.

Edited October 26, 2023 by LuvMyShows

[iMonrey]

Thursday's episode, "Dangerous Secret," was not the usual "the husband did it" non-mystery. I was genuinely shocked when it circled back to the best friend who found him. At first I couldn't figure out what the "secret" was, because Brad, the victim, was open about his sexuality with everyone. Then once it became clear who the murderer was, I realized whose secret they were talking about. Good case. 

Hadn't seen Dennis Murphy in awhile, almost forgot about him. Seems like all we get anymore is Andrea or Josh.

The thing that threw me is the body cam footage at the crime scene was time-stamped 1/19/1970. Like, WTF, did this happen in 1970? No, it was 2017, so why was the time stamp so wonky?

[Irlandesa]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Thursday's episode, "Dangerous Secret," was not the usual "the husband did it" non-mystery. I was genuinely shocked when it circled back to the best friend who found him.

I knew it was him when the promo talked about a secret and they were so focused on his reaction, especially when the cop described what he said when he was leaving.

That said, it was hella juicy and a great case.

The only thing I couldn't understand is why he'd expose his daughter to the body but then they said she was his stepdaughter which is sadly why he felt okay to be so casually cruel.

[UsernameFatigue]

I knew in the first few minutes it was the friend, and guessed the reason pretty much right away too. The best friend's fake cry at the crime scene with his hands over his face was a giveaway to me. The other giveaway is that in the first few minutes Dateline interviewed other "best friends", but not the "best friend" that found him, or his wife who is close enough that her daughter called Brad uncle. SInce they found him they normally would have been interviewed by Dateline.  Unless of course one of them is the murderer. 

We had a discussion recently on here about people's homes, and Brad certainly had an interesting decorating choice. Even without the place being tossed, I don't think there was much wall space, floor space or furniture that wasn't covered with..... something.

I don't believe that David went over to say he was ending it. I think that Brad threatened to tell David's wife because he wanted David to leave his family, and that is why he was killed.

I do give a side eye to his friends talking about the great guy he was, and really rolled my eyes at the friend that insisted that Brad would love the attention of Dateline. Though David was the married one and betraying his family, Brad was the guy who was considered family by David's wife and kid(s?), and he betrayed them just as much as David did IMO. 

All in all a boring epi for me as I guessed the killer and motive within a few minutes. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by UsernameFatigue

[iMonrey]

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

The only thing I couldn't understand is why he'd expose his daughter to the body but then they said she was his stepdaughter which is sadly why he felt okay to be so casually cruel.

I think it was more that either he or his wife decided they needed to check on Brad because he wasn't responding, the other heard, the daughter maybe heard and they all went together. He couldn't have told them not to go with him, it might have looked suspicious.

2 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

The other giveaway is that in the first few minutes Dateline interviewed other "best friends", but not the "best friend" that found him, or his wife who is close enough that her daughter called Brad uncle.

Oh, good point. Rookie mistake on my part!

[Annber03]

3 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I knew it was him when the promo talked about a secret and they were so focused on his reaction, especially when the cop described what he said when he was leaving.

At one point during the story itself, Murphy, when talking about the secret, said something like, "But was it a dangerous secret?" and I was like, "...well, considering that's the title of this episode, I'm going to guess yes...".

I want to say I heard this story on some other show once, on the ID channel or something, but I can't recall for certain. But yeah, a very unusual, and very sad, case. 

[patty1h]

Why do we get the episode "On the Hunt for the Zombie Hunter" twice in one week?  And this is listed as "new" on my cable guide.  Deja vu Dateline.

Edited October 28, 2023 by patty1h

[TVbitch]

48 Hours did the canal killer case last week, so I will just copy my comment from that forum: "Okay I live in Phoenix, and I do not remember this "zombie hunter" aspect of the killer. Why does our city always look so dumpy in these shows. Anyhoo, glad the judge did not consider an abusive childhood as a free pass to murder."

Interesting to see that even the killer in jail wrote to Dateline about how blown out of proportion the "zombie" stuff is.  

As for the Dangerous Secret, I guessed it right away, too. The murderer just looked crazy guilty on the scene, and was WAY too insistent that Brad WAS HIS BEST FRIEND!!!!! 

I always FF over the opening and the title, as it often gives too much away. 

 

[iMonrey]

13 hours ago, patty1h said:

Why do we get the episode "On the Hunt for the Zombie Hunter" twice in one week?  And this is listed as "new" on my cable guide.  Deja vu Dateline.

Was it? Thursday's episode was "Dangerous Secret."

I found "Zombie Hunter" hard to follow. Not the typical case Dateline usually covers. The irony here (for those of us in the East/Central time zone) is NBC kept interrupting this story about a serial killer . . . to update us about another serial killer. Therefore, I missed a chunk of the story which explained how this guy became known as a "zombie hunter." 

[Peanut6711]

52 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Was it? Thursday's episode was "Dangerous Secret."

I found "Zombie Hunter" hard to follow. Not the typical case Dateline usually covers. The irony here (for those of us in the East/Central time zone) is NBC kept interrupting this story about a serial killer . . . to update us about another serial killer. Therefore, I missed a chunk of the story which explained how this guy became known as a "zombie hunter." 

East coast viewer here too. Kept waiting and waiting for the Zombie Hunter angle to come into play, only to miss that key part due to NBC's annoying interruptions.  Like 11pm is a news hour, it couldn't wait till then? If he was dead at ten o'clock, he was still going to be dead at eleven.  That was an interruption only needed in the Maine area. The rest of the east coast wasn't sheltering in place. 

I also thought this one fell a little flat. Can't help but think the "zombie hunter" title was only played up due to the proximately of Halloween. 

[pdlinda]

2 hours ago, TVbitch said:

8 Hours did the canal killer case last week, so I will just copy my comment from that forum: "Okay I live in Phoenix, and I do not remember this "zombie hunter" aspect of the killer. Why does our city always look so dumpy in these shows. Anyhoo, glad the judge did not consider an abusive childhood as a free pass to murder."

I also live in Phoenix and worked on the defense side in Maricopa County for MANY years (including the years this case was being worked on and tried).  I, also don't recall any mention of a "zombie killer" and was basically unaware of the case because I don't rely on the local media for news.  

[Annber03]

I live in Iowa, and we got interrupted with news reports about the events in Maine as well. 

It is weird how "Dateline", "20/20", and "48 Hours" all seem to be covering some of the same cases recently. Also a bit surprising to hear that those of you who live in Phoenix have no memory of this case...but then again, Phoenix is a huge city, and this guy's victim count was comparatively low for a serial killer (thankfully), so that also makes sense you wouldn't have known about it, too. 

One of the victims had the same name as me, so that was a bit jarring to hear. But yeah, what a horrific way for them to die ;(. 

[CrystalBlue]

On 10/24/2023 at 9:20 AM, iMonrey said:

Eh, you say tomato.

I think marrying someone under suspicion for murdering his previous wife reeks of desperation.

I think it's both!  Church lady is single again, having "to find her voice" after a divorce (this made me burst out laughing), so she gets set up by the church group friends to date some guy who just lost his wife to murder!  She happily accepts getting married so soon because she doesn't want to be single AND wants the man of the house to take care of the bills and finances while she raises three kids.

[Ohmo]

On 10/28/2023 at 12:21 PM, Peanut6711 said:

I also thought this one fell a little flat. Can't help but think the "zombie hunter" title was only played up due to the proximately of Halloween. 

It was interesting that the 48 Hours episode centered on Brian while the Dateline episode centered on Angela and Melanie.  The Dateline episode also never brought up his ex-wife or the fact that he's suspected of killing a 13-year-old girl.  The detective mentioned he thought there were more victims, but he didn't elaborate.

His daughter's an adult by now.  I hope she's gotten counseling and/or treatment so that the cycle doesn't repeat itself.  Living with him as she was growing up has had to have affected her in some way.

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, Ohmo said:

His daughter's an adult by now.  I hope she's gotten counseling and/or treatment so that the cycle doesn't repeat itself.  Living with him as she was growing up has had to have affected her in some way.

I did wonder how in the world he got custody. He had a level 5 hoarder house, a hobby that would have upset a child, and a police record.  Even his own mother thought he was dangerous enough to report him to the police, she should have been trying to get custody of her granddaughter if the girls mother wasn't.  I imagine he told his wife that if he didn't get custody he would kill her.

[Tdoc72]

On 10/22/2023 at 4:25 PM, Pi237 said:

 

and the interviews with loved ones felt so pandering. White eyed smile-what’s the first thing people would notice about her? So, she was loved? Whisper wide eyed smiles.  Ew. If I’m ever murdered, please don’t let them talk me up like I’m some angel that fell from heaven. It’s gross. 

I always tell my daughter I’d be happy with a “she was alright”. I have never lit up a room!  

On 10/27/2023 at 4:17 PM, UsernameFatigue said:

.We had a discussion recently on here about people's homes, and Brad certainly had an interesting decorating choice. Even without the place being tossed, I don't think there was much wall space, floor space or furniture that wasn't covered with..... something.

The friend said Cracker Barrel style. And Dennis said something about country or Americana style. I told my cat I thought the friend meant every surface was covered in crap. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Tdoc72

[Whimsy]

On 10/23/2023 at 10:53 AM, GiandujaPie said:

What kills me about these interviews is that these family and friends are being interviewed after the crime has been committed and there has been an arrest and they still want to go on TV and talk about what a wonderful person they thought this person was. If I had a friend who got arrested and then charged and found guilty of murdering his wife, I would be so angry that I had been friends with someone like that and I wouldn't be going on TV telling the world what a great person he was and how much he loved his wife. I'd be ashamed and angry at myself that I didn't see what was happening. I just don't know how people can sit around and laugh at "good" memories of a man who murdered his wife in cold blood and do it publicly on national tv. 

A little late to respond to this- but I'll give the families the benefit of the doubt.  I guarantee the producers are making them act all happy and stuff when thinking back on the good times because they are trying to make it a "surprise" when we "find out" it's the significant other.  Spoiler alert: we're never surprised.

[12catcrazy]

It was interesting seeing both the 48 Hours and Dateline episodes (and so close together) on the Zombie Hunter guy in Phoenix.    We learned more about the victims on Dateline but more about the killer on 48 Hours and seeing both episodes gave one a better all around feel for the case.   Interesting though how Dateline didn't mention the ex-wife and all that she had to say about Brian Miller.  And I also wonder about how much of what Miller said about his mother was actually true as she was no longer alive to defend herself.  And for bleeding heart lawyer, all I can say is he's lucky that none of Miller's victims were his loved ones.   People have gotten the death penalty for crimes a lot less horrific than what was done to those two young victims -  and those two are only the  known victims of Brian Miller.  I agree with the cops - there are probably more.  My guess is that the only way he is going to come clean about more crimes is if they commute his death sentence.  

[LuvMyShows]

On 10/27/2023 at 6:42 PM, iMonrey said:

I think it was more that either he or his wife decided they needed to check on Brad because he wasn't responding, the other heard, the daughter maybe heard and they all went together. He couldn't have told them not to go with him, it might have looked suspicious.

IIRC, they didn't go over to Brad's because he wasn't responding....they went to drop off a weed whacker.  So he absolutely could have gone without them. And the wife herself, when he confessed to her in the interrogation room, realized that he had deliberately and intentionally exposed the wife and step-daughter to the murder scene. It was entirely calculated, pre-meditated, self-serving, and cruel AF for him to have them all there.

[mythoughtis]

65 seconds … I felt it was Nick from the beginning.  It’s too bad it took 10 years for the police to ask the FBI to clean up the audio and for the police to look at the size of the entryway.

I did not however automatically  think that the fact that someone started dating 3 months after a death made them evil.  I grew up ( decades ago) with an understanding that people could start dating after 3 months ( if desired) but should not marry for at least a year.  Would I personally start dating that soon?   No, but I’d probably be ready to meet with friends’ of friends for a casual group dinner.  I’m not likely to marry again ever - because why get married again in my 60s or later?   Personally I think people need to wait six months to date and  two years to marry so they are mentally and emotionally ready. Nick and Rachel did wait two years to marry. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by mythoughtis

[iMonrey]

Anyone catch "Ghost Rider"? Seems like nobody's watching the Thursday shows.

Sometimes I wonder why Dateline even bothers when it's so obvious. Another couple in the midst of a nasty divorce and custody case with a husband who is a known abuser. Gee, I wonder who killed her.

I guess the only mystery is why so many men think they can get away with this. The husband didn't even seem smart about it. I guess that's what happens when your ego is greater than your intellect.

You also have to wonder about these defense attorneys willing to go on TV and defend such obviously guilty clients. Do they think it will attract more clients? I guess if I murdered someone and nobody else would take my case, but . . . she didn't win.

The female prosecutor in this case had the kind of voice I find hard to listen too. 

They didn't explain what happened to Becky and Tim's three boys except to say they were "living with relatives." Whose? Becky's or Tim's? Because I'm betting it's the latter. The moment Becky was killed, Tim automatically gained full custody of their children since no formal settlement had yet been reached. Being found guilty of murder doesn't change that either. He has the right to assign custody to whoever he chooses. I wonder if there's a fight over custody between the families. 

Can't believe this guy was on Family Feud and said the biggest mistake he made on his wedding day was saying "I do."

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

You also have to wonder about these defense attorneys willing to go on TV and defend such obviously guilty clients.

I know.  The bullets in his house matched the 14 in her body but his attorney tells us, oh but  we don't have the gun.  As if that matters at all.

The guy was a jerk and an idiot.  All those searches on his computer.  He might as well have written a confession.

Those poor little boys, I hope they aren't with the creepy paternal  grandfather.

[Irlandesa]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Sometimes I wonder why Dateline even bothers when it's so obvious. Another couple in the midst of a nasty divorce and custody case with a husband who is a known abuser. Gee, I wonder who killed her.

There was a brief moment where there was doubt, considering she had a boyfriend. 

But there was just something about the ex-husband's face.  And then when they said he had a big personality and was excited to be on Family Feud, I knew he must be in jail since he wasn't being interviewed by Dateline.  At least they kept it to 1 hour.

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Can't believe this guy was on Family Feud and said the biggest mistake he made on his wedding day was saying "I do."

Unless I'm mistaken, wasn't he trying to answer a category where he had to think of what answers could be up on the board?  If that's the case, I think the way they treated that answer is a bit overblown.