All Episodes Discussion

[UsernameFatigue]

I thought The Clearing was a fascinating case. I don't know if her husband killed Emily, but I do know I could not have convicted him had I been on that jury. And that his attorney was one of the most impressive I have ever seen on one of these true crime shows.

I totally agreed with his attorney when she said that the prosecution was just throwing things at the wall to see what would stick. The two cheques that were written for $5,000 each? One was dated May 5, 2020, weeks before Emily went missing. Also their whole closing argument that Moore followed Emily to the woods between 8:45 and 9:30 I think it was in the evening and killed her? It would be getting dark then, that makes no sense. And what then were the $5,000 payments for then? 

Also the friends asserting that she would never have committed suicide? I think it is as often as not that friends and family are shocked when someone commits suicide, so that held no water with me.

I can say though that it has been a long time since I have seen such a great defense attorney, and such pathetic prosecution attorneys. 

[Annber03]

7 minutes ago, Court said:

His lawyer used the fact that he led them to the area as proof of innocence but I actually think that could easily point to guilt. He's arrogant and wanted to put on a show if they found her. 

Yeah, I was like, "I dunno, I've seen plenty of stories with criminals who were stupid enough to lure the police to the crime scene." It's their way of being all, "See, I'm helping, I can't be the suspect!" 

But yeah, I agree that the jury made the right call and I agreed with their reasoning as to why they ruled as they did, 'cause the police investigation was shit, and I really didn't like how cocky they were with their certainty about things. Yes, obviously, the husband is the first suspect, but those interrogators shouldn't have been like, "You did it, you killed her!" when her body hadn't even been found yet. At that point she was still a missing person, they had no confirmation she was even dead yet. There's a reason those kinds of interrogations have come under scrutiny in recent years, that's leading the suspect and it makes it so easy for them to confess to things they may not have done. I felt like they cared way more about public opinion than they should've as well. I can sit on this site and spout my theories about someone's presumed guilt or innocence all I want, but I would hope like hell police wouldn't be influenced by the opinions of some rando online like that, you know? 

And then there's the fact that everyone immediately was like, "She liked to go in the woods" and the investigators...didn't check that area of the woods right away. Also, while I know that family members and friends are often involved in searches for missing loved ones, in this particular case, given someone else in that family had also died in the woods just a few months prior, one might think the investigators could've told Emily's loved ones to stay back while they searched that area of the woods? The fact that her loved ones had to come across her like that is horrifying and I'm thinking that the investigators should've/could've done more to prevent them from having to find her that way. 

(I love, too, how the show kept harping on the state she was in when she was finally found. We get it, people, she'd been there a while. Trust me, I had enough disturbing visions the first time they mentioned it, I really didn't need them to keep repeating the description of how she was found.)

And then they're like, "We don't know for certain if she died in the house or in the woods." I mean...isn't that kind of part of your job? To determine that one way or another? I also found the prosecution's theory of how the murder would've happened kind of odd - they made it sound like she left the house while he was on his phone, he continued playing on there for a while, and then he went out and killed her. If they'd had a fight before she left, and if he really wanted to kill her, wouldn't he have immediately stopped her from leaving the house, or followed her outside? What would be the point of him continuing to play on his phone and then following her a short time later? By then any anger he might've had likely would've fizzled out. 

I also feel like there wasn't enough made of the fact that that wooded area did not look like an easy one to walk through. I would think that'd be a factor in helping to figure out where she was killed, 'cause if she was killed in the house and taken out there at night...I mean, carrying a dead body through that tough terrain at night would not be an easy thing to do. 

Honestly, my theory is that if he did kill her, he either lured her out there under the pretense of, "Hey, let's go for a walk", or they took a walk in the woods to try and talk out whatever they were fighting about, and then either way, he attacked her once they got to that spot. And then he either plotted to make the scene look like a suicide or, if it was a heat of the moment murder, panicked and made it look like a suicide to cover it up. They'd had plenty of experience with people close to them committing suicide in the past, after all, so it would make sense for him to try and explain this away as another tragic suicide. 

(I also agreed with Matt's description of his arrest as "porn for the Blue Line crowd", 'cause yeah, that's exactly what that was. You guys seriously needed to bring in a SWAT team and have the big dramatic takedown? For someone you'd already talked to, and already knew where he lived? Really? Okay.)

I agree there are things about Matt's behavior that do make him look awfully suspicious (that domestic violence charge, while from a while ago, certainly doesn't help matters). At the same time, I also think there's valid reason for people to believe Emily could've killed herself. All that tragedy in her past, and then the fact that one of her own friends stated that she'd told her sister that she would never kill herself on her birthday. I mean...the fact she would even say something like that would indicate to me that the idea is something she has at least considered before. 

Really weird case the whole way around. I'm still genuinely of two minds about it, myself. 

[Guest]

A friend text me last night while I was watching.  I asked her if she was watching because the victim lived in Westerville (and my friend is from Columbus). She immediately texted me back ‘why does Dateline cover every murder in Ohio?  There are weirdos everywhere.

I realized that the past few times she texted me while I was watching Dateline (and other crime shows) the victims were in Ohio. 

I am curious as to which state has more murders profiled on these crime shows.  Certainly larger states would have a higher chance of being profiled. 

And last nights case… first time in awhile I am on the fence.  Did he do it and escaped punishment because he was as crafty as a fox?  Or was he truly innocent and is just a guy with a weird affect?  

For what it’s worth I think the jury got it exactly right this time.  And I couldn’t agree more that his lawyer was on top of her game.  The prosecution team didn’t believe their scenario at any more than the jury did. 

Edited October 7, 2023 by PsychoKlown

[TVbitch]

Oof, the police lost this case when they failed to find the body after multiple people told them to search the small patch of woods right next to the house. 

Where did the USB cord come from? It's definitely a spontaneous way to hang yourself (or fake a hanging). Something you would just grab from the house. Was one missing anywhere? Did he buy a new one after the murder? 

Also, what was his motive? Did he gain anything? 

I do have to ask what was going on in these peoples lives. Her husband kills himself, and both her parents die in separate accidental situations. His one son dies in Nevada, I forget the reason. He dates and breaks up with Emily, then she texts him so he asks her to marry him and moves in with her with his remaining son. Then that son commits suicide, and now his wife commits suicide (or he murders her). Good Lord. I was thinking we were headed to some kind of weird serial killer situation! 

Edited October 7, 2023 by TVbitch

[iMonrey]

I could go either way on "The Clearing." The fact that he tried to choke his ex-wife really makes me suspicious of the husband's guilt. 

But yeah, the defense attorney really tore the prosecution's case apart. The thing that really sticks out for me is that the neighbor saw Emily that morning in her garage. I know later he said he couldn't be sure it was that morning, but the police questioned him the same day she went missing. Memories fade over time but not over hours on something as basic as whether or not you saw your neighbor that very morning.

Also, the defense expert really put into question whether or not Emily had been punched in the face. Her remains had been in the woods for four months (and I shudder to think what was left of her), she was cut down and moved multiple times, those fragile remains could easily have been damaged at any point during that time.

I don't put any stock in the friends who were so sure Emily would never commit suicide. We've just seen too many suicide cases where friends and family refuse to accept a loved one would do that.

My mother's father committed suicide when she was very little, and she was very anti-suicide her whole life because of it. But in her final years when she was sick and in a lot of pain, she tried to commit suicide. So you can never say what someone would or wouldn't do.

Also, trouble in one's marriage is just as much a motive for suicide as it is for murder. Clearly Emily was going through a lot, was seeing a therapist, etc.

I'm surprised more wasn't made of that water bottle filled with vodka. Surely it was tested for prints? If only Emily's were found on it that really does point to her state of mind.

OMG. One of the jurors at the trial was Elizabeth Warren! 😃

Edited October 7, 2023 by iMonrey

[UsernameFatigue]

As was mentioned above, the interrogation by the police was cringe worthy. When the one cop shouted at Matheau that he knew that he killed Emily and that it was an accident, I was actually embarrassed for the cop and how bad he was at his job. Its like he was thinking "If I tell Matt that I think it was an accident, I am sure he will be relieved that I don't think it was intentional, and confess". It was like watching a scene from a Coen Brothers dark comedy. 

So was the "takedown" of Matheau when they arrested him. I actually loved it when Matheau said in his interview with Dennis that all they had to do was ask him to come in. I don't know that that is true, but it definitely made the cops look ridiculous.

They really were gunning for their 15 minutes of fame, and instead got 15 minutes or more of ridicule. Prosecutors as well. 

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

As was mentioned above, the interrogation by the police was cringe worthy. When the one cop shouted at Matheau that he knew that he killed Emily and that it was an accident, I was actually embarrassed for the cop and how bad he was at his job. It’s like he was thinking "If I tell Matt that I think it was an accident, I am sure he will be relieved that I don't think it was intentional, and confess". It was like watching a scene from a Coen Brothers dark comedy.

Reminiscent of Kramer being accused of murder as the Smog Killer in LA. 

That detective was way over the top too..”Don’t you ever swear to MY God”. 

Except Seinfeld was a comedy…this cringeworthy interrogation was real.

[12catcrazy]

This was a weird one last night.  I have to agree with TVBitch in wondering about a serial killer angle.  So many weird deaths in Emily's life.  And yeah, I wanted to know more about the water container filled with vodka instead of water - if Emily was drunk, it would make it much more likely to be suicide. 

I can picture a scenario where maybe Emily and Matt had an argument (maybe even earlier in the day) and she had been drinking and left to go walking in the woods and had the idea of "just screw it all" and tried to hang herself on the branch with the charger cord.  My guess is that she probably strangled rather than "hanged".   Considering how close to home she was, it is mind boggling how long it was before any of the searchers actually found her (and I think the ladies who found her didn't know her personally).    The husband seemed like kind of an odd guy but from the sounds of it, she seemed kind of odd also.  I don't think that he killed her because it was such a weird set up.  You'd think if he murdered her, he bury the body somewhere or dump it in the woods, rather than this stupid hanging her from a branch in the underbrush.  From a logical point of view it makes no sense.   And would he have gained anything from the murder?  Life insurance, the home, what?    And for the friends who kept saying that Emily wouldn't kill herself, denial seems to be a really big thing among people who have had a friend or family member commit suicide.  I think that people like to tell themselves that they would've seen it or the person would have come to them for help.  Suicide is such a big taboo subject in our culture that people just can't accept it.   I had a friend who seemed like such an easy going, carefree happy person, married with two kids he adored and he hanged himself.  Everyone who knew him was in shock (even his wife) because he always seemed so happy and not depressed.  Some people hide their demons very well until something happens and they snap.   That this case happened around COVID lockdown time doesn't surprise me.   It was a stressful time for people who normally were mentally healthy - for people already close to the edge, it probably didn't take alot to push them over it. 

[Annber03]

6 hours ago, PsychoKlown said:

A friend text me last night while I was watching.  I asked her if she was watching because the victim lived in Westerville (and my friend is from Columbus). She immediately texted me back ‘why does Dateline cover every murder in Ohio?  There are weirdos everywhere.

I realized that the past few times she texted me while I was watching Dateline (and other crime shows) the victims were in Ohio. 

I am curious as to which state has more murders profiled on these crime shows.  Certainly larger states would have a higher chance of being profiled. 

Ha, I wonder about that, too. I always think similar things whenever they feature a story from Iowa on here. Always great to see your state featured on one of these kinds of shows, isn't it :p? 

5 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Oof, the police lost this case when they failed to find the body after multiple people told them to search the small patch of woods right next to the house. 

That's frustrating for so many reasons, not the least of which being that had they found her much sooner, they could've been able to pin down a more definitive time of death. They kept saying this murder happened at night, but even then there was some debate over when at night it happened. Well, if you'd quit dithering around for so long and found the body sooner, guys, maybe you could get that answer? Just a thought. 

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Also, the defense expert really put into question whether or not Emily had been punched in the face.

All I kept thinking during that part of the debate was, "...did nobody ever think to check her medical records, or talk to family and friends?" Those would've been very easy ways to determine if she'd ever broken her nose before, no? 

I think that's another reason the jury ruled as they did - not only could they not prove definitively that he'd murdered his wife, but they also couldn't prove whether it would've been premeditated or a heat of the moment thing if he had. Which, again, considering he was being put him on trial for first-degree murder, is even more reason that the prosecution had better have a damn good case to back up that kind of charge. And they didn't even have that. 

I fully agree with everyone on how awesome the defense attorney was, too. If I were on trial, I'd definitely want her representing me. 

Quote

I'm surprised more wasn't made of that water bottle filled with vodka. Surely it was tested for prints? If only Emily's were found on it that really does point to her state of mind.

Right? So many obvious things like this to look at. Same goes for her phone - if she was going to kill herself, then, yeah, it would make sense she'd leave her phone behind. Why take anything with you when you know full well you won't be coming back, right? 

[JudyObscure]

Just adding to the many dumb things the Westerville police did and didn't do:

They didn't run any sort of background check on the people who lived in the house where the dogs said Emily's scent had stopped.  At first they didn't answer the door and the second and last time they just talked to them for a few minutes!

They  thought Emily couldn't have gone in the woods to kill herself because she made her bed.  Clearly the police don't have any automatic morning habits and only make their beds when important guests are expected. 

The bartender was almost laughable saying that the Emily she knew would never kill herself.  Does she think the people she sees drinking and dancing in her bar are that way all the time?

[Ohmo]

I haven't read any of the responses about The Clearing yet because I live in the Columbus area, and I wanted to see what Dateline would say about this case.  I was actually surprised when I saw the name Emily Noble.

I think the jury also got it right.  Westerville is a suburb of Columbus that sits in Delaware County.  Columbus (the city) and several other suburbs are located in Franklin County.  Westerville has a small suburban police force, and I wouldn't say that many Columbus suburban police forces do a ton of homicide investigations.  Not when compared to Columbus (the city itself).

When Emily disappeared and was later found, the two theories that emerged stayed in play. Either Emily died by suicide or Matt killed her.  Both seemed equally plausible, and I remember the police keying in on Matt very quickly.  However, I don't remember there being any sort of "bombshell" in the local coverage of the trial.  Meaning, local news covered the events and the trial, but there was never anything major that broke. 

It was like Matt got arrested, and there was a trial, but the evidence never seemed strong in either direction.  It's entirely possible that Matt could have killed her, but it also felt like it was equally entirely possible that she died by suicide.  Neither was proven, so the verdict doesn't surprise me at all.

[pdlinda]

20 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I fully agree with everyone on how awesome the defense attorney was, too. If I were on trial, I'd definitely want her representing me. 

His Defense Attorney must have been VERY EXPENSIVE!  They mentioned throughout the show that he didn't work as his mother left him a LOT of $$$.  At the end of the show in kind of an Epilogue, he mentioned that he was "broke."

The cost of that trial would have been out of the financial reach of most defendants. 

Between his EXPERT WITNESS who was pivotal to his case, and billable hours AND TALENT of his lawyer, he probably spent hundreds of thousands of $$$$.  He won his freedom, which, chances are, would never have happened if he couldn't bankroll the services of those 2 remarkable women.

[GiandujaPie]

The Note

Very sad but seems like it left a lot of stuff out. I too was wondering where Kendra fit in the picture. I'm not sure there really was enough evidence to convict Brody even though I'm pretty sure he did do it.  A kid who was arrogant enough to talk to Megan's mother the way he did definitely would have issues. They also never mentioned whether his father, the cop, had anything to do with a coverup. I thought I remembered that they said he wasn't exactly forthcoming in the beginning. 

The Clearing

I agree that the defense attorney was top notch and was worth every penny. It's possible that Matt killed Emily but the prosecution didn't prove it. I don't see how they didn't find her body before those women did. They mentioned that he had a previous DV charge with his ex wife for choking her and that is a big red flag, but then they never told us if she testified or was even questioned. The amount of tragedy in Emily's life doesn't make it seem unlikely she would have committed suicide. And this was during the original Covid lockdown when many people were going stir crazy being at home and having nothing to do. 

 

[LuvMyShows]

On 10/7/2023 at 1:35 AM, UsernameFatigue said:

Also their whole closing argument that Moore followed Emily to the woods between 8:45 and 9:30 I think it was in the evening and killed her? It would be getting dark then, that makes no sense. And what then were the $5,000 payments for then? 

Good point! 

On 10/7/2023 at 1:36 AM, Annber03 said:

At the same time, I also think there's valid reason for people to believe Emily could've killed herself. All that tragedy in her past, and then the fact that one of her own friends stated that she'd told her sister that she would never kill herself on her birthday. I mean...the fact she would even say something like that would indicate to me that the idea is something she has at least considered before. 

That is actually the one thing that really leads me to believe it was suicide.  Who says something like that? And the fact that the sister didn't say anything in response like "What on earth are you talking about?", leads me to believe that those who knew her well did indeed believe that suicide was possible.

On 10/7/2023 at 1:36 AM, Annber03 said:

I also feel like there wasn't enough made of the fact that that wooded area did not look like an easy one to walk through. I would think that'd be a factor in helping to figure out where she was killed, 'cause if she was killed in the house and taken out there at night...I mean, carrying a dead body through that tough terrain at night would not be an easy thing to do. 

Another good point!  Plus, if he had killed her and then dragged her through all that, then there would have been serious scratches on him, even if he was wearing long sleeves and pants, but IIRC they checked and he had none.

On 10/7/2023 at 12:02 PM, iMonrey said:

I'm surprised more wasn't made of that water bottle filled with vodka. Surely it was tested for prints? If only Emily's were found on it that really does point to her state of mind.

And yet another good point!

[mythoughtis]

The Clearing 

I’m not sure he’s innocent- but I’m also not sure he’s guilty.  I’m not sure she committed suicide either.  she was a half mile from her home, and Matt told them where she liked to walk- which is where she was found. Why didn’t the  police and police dogs find her? 
What I do know is that people should seriously consider their clothing choices if they are being interviewed by Dateline.  Don’t pick out the dress with no cleavage coverage just because you work in a bar. 

[LuvMyShows]

On 10/6/2023 at 1:14 AM, Irlandesa said:

I feel for the mom.  She knew he was bad news but her daughter was too young and inexperienced to realize just how bad her situation was.

I do too, and I'm not blaming the mom...but what mom in this day and age could possibly think that you can simply forbid away a relationship that involves a young adult male?  It's going to backfire, in big ways or small. Speaking from some quasi-related experience, you just tell the daughter that you don't like it, and why, but you aren't going to forbid it because you know they will do it anyway, and you love her a lot, and are always there for her if she gets scared or something goes wrong and she needs help. By outright forbidding it, you are now removed from being a source that could actually help her navigate things if she needed a shoulder, or more.

[Irlandesa]

11 hours ago, GiandujaPie said:

I'm not sure there really was enough evidence to convict Brody even though I'm pretty sure he did do it.

I think the changing stories, blood in his car and pretty definitive proof she was murdered was enough to convict him.

 

2 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

That is actually the one thing that really leads me to believe it was suicide.  Who says something like that? And the fact that the sister didn't say anything in response like "What on earth are you talking about?", leads me to believe that those who knew her well did indeed believe that suicide was possible.

Right.  Either she brought that up unprompted or her sister asked.  Especially invoking a "promise" which feels more adamant than simply talking about someone else committing suicide and saying you could never do that. 

[JudyObscure]

9 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

I do too, and I'm not blaming the mom...but what mom in this day and age could possibly think that you can simply forbid away a relationship that involves a young adult male?  It's going to backfire, in big ways or small. Speaking from some quasi-related experience, you just tell the daughter that you don't like it, and why, but you aren't going to forbid it because you know they will do it anyway, and you love her a lot, and are always there for her if she gets scared or something goes wrong and she needs help. By outright forbidding it, you are now removed from being a source that could actually help her navigate things if she needed a shoulder, or more.

Yes, and once you know a nasty piece of work like Brody is in your child's life, watch her like a hawk!  Mom's alarm should have gone off the minute her daughter suddenly had a stomach ache and needed to go home.  Then to go home to a quiet house and not go straight upstairs and check on her?  I'm not blaming the mom either, and I know from experience how you trust your own children and think they would never do things that they end up doing, but still we all know how intense young love can be and how much boys pressure girls to do things they shouldn't.  

[ButterQueen]

I could not have voted him guilty.  The police didn’t even test the shirt he was wearing.  

[iMonrey]

The Footprint at the Lake: Either I'm getting too good at this, or the show is getting too bad. As soon as they brought up the daughter's boyfriend that the family took in for awhile, I knew he was the killer. That just seemed too random a fact to bring up so early. They were interviewing the husband and one of the sons, so I knew it wasn't either of them. But they weren't interviewing the other kids so I knew it was either one of them or a boyfriend, or an ex, etc.

Tragic all the way around, I felt sorry for Julius's father. Did anyone else think it was strange how quickly Lt. Wilk found Manuela's car and body? 

The police work seemed suspiciously shoddy. They had bloody footprints at the crime scene, did they think to take the husband's footprints to see if they matched? And Melanie went back to the police the very next day after the murder and said she suspected Julius, and yet they still kept interrogating Peter? (And threatened him with the electric chair, which - doesn't exist.) It was like they only stumbled over Julius after looking to question Cory. Lucky for them Julius was staying there. 

People who have a large arsenal of guns really make themselves a target so it seems like a false sense of security to me.

[Irlandesa]

28 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

The police work seemed suspiciously shoddy. They had bloody footprints at the crime scene, did they think to take the husband's footprints to see if they matched? And Melanie went back to the police the very next day after the murder and said she suspected Julius, and yet they still kept interrogating Peter?

Yeah.  I found myself to be very frustrated by the cops in this episode.  They did a good job of appearing competent in interviews but man, they really wanted to have their prior opinion of Peter confirmed and must have been mighty disappointed when none of it panned out in actual evidence. 

For instance, it seems like they just went around finding it "hard to believe" that people in the house couldn't hear the wife screaming and yet they didn't test that theory out like the cop friend of the family.  However, if she were to be groggy upon waking up and then stabbed relatively quickly, she might not have had the opportunity to make a noise before she was rendered incapable of doing so.

 

[iMonrey]

2 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

For instance, it seems like they just went around finding it "hard to believe" that people in the house couldn't hear the wife screaming and yet they didn't test that theory out like the cop friend of the family. 

When Andrea Canning is doing better investigative work than you, you should lose your job as an investigator.

[Crashcourse]

That cop annoyed me.  I wanted to knock that silly cowboy hat off his head.

[Mondrianyone]

On 10/7/2023 at 1:36 AM, Annber03 said:

Yes, obviously, the husband is the first suspect, but those interrogators shouldn't have been like, "You did it, you killed her!" when her body hadn't even been found yet. At that point she was still a missing person, they had no confirmation she was even dead yet.

And yet no one seems to have noticed (or at least pointed out) that he used the past tense when referring to her during that early interrogation: "I wouldn't kill my wife--I loved her." I think he killed her and got away with it because the cops were so inept and his lawyer was great.

[Annber03]

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

And Melanie went back to the police the very next day after the murder and said she suspected Julius, and yet they still kept interrogating Peter? (And threatened him with the electric chair, which - doesn't exist.)

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeah, I was cringing really hard at that part of the interrogation, when they were all, "You'll go to the electric chair!" Another example of an interrogation where the police are trying to goad the person they're interviewing into confessing to something without concrete proof that they're the one who did it. Police should not be allowed to make those kinds of comments in interrogations, it doesn't help anything and more often than not, they're making these threats towards someone who didn't actually do the crime they're accusing them of, or which they can't prove they're guilty of. 

Quote

People who have a large arsenal of guns really make themselves a target so it seems like a false sense of security to me.

I thought the exact same thing while watching all of that. They had guns in their house and it still didn't stop someone coming in and abducting and killing their wife/mother, so turning their house into Fort Knox after the fact seemed especially pointless. I get they were scared and all, but...

Probably also didn't help that the entire town apparently knew the father had a gun collection. I suppose they thought that would make people more scared to mess with him, but, again, evidently that didn't work. Some people will see that as less of a threat and more like a challenge. 

I get it's Texas and gun ownership is very common there in general, but yeah, the whole gun collection thing just really creeped me out. And her husband being all, "I failed as a man" at the end - I can totally sympathize with his guilt over feeling like he didn't do enough to protect her, but the way he made a big thing out of the whole "It's my duty as a man" aspect was...a bit much. 

I remember this case being covered on another series once. I remember the cop with the body cam coming across her body in the field. You know you live in a small town when the investigators know the victims that well. I did feel for him with that, I can't imagine how surreal and horrifying that kind of discovery would be. 

3 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

That cop annoyed me.  I wanted to knock that silly cowboy hat off his head.

Was it him who said something to the effect at one point about how, in this country, there's the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing and that's why they had to follow the process as they did? 'Cause I remember whichever investigator said that sounded kind of frustrated by that fact, like having that in place made it harder for them to just go in guns a-blazin' and nab their man at any cost. 

Yeah. There were quite a few moments in this episode that came off like every bad stereotype of Texas masculinity/"shoot first, ask questions later" come to life. It was very off-putting. 

[Tdoc72]

On 10/7/2023 at 5:14 PM, Annber03 said:

Ha, I wonder about that, too. I always think similar things whenever they feature a story from Iowa on here. Always great to see your state featured on one of these kinds of shows, isn't it :p? 

I actually get kinda excited when it’s someplace I know. Like, hey, I know where that is. 

[Pi237]

The German Mom’s husband was so shady to me. He seemed to be acting a lot. That hug with the kids when he was just telling them about the murder was really weird “someone came in and kidnapped your mom and killed her” whatever he said, he sounded like he was trying to lead the narrative. And he was oddly calm, while being sure to mention over and over that his Training taught him to be calm. Then, he kept mentioning needing to be strong for the kids…it was like he was trying to remember a script. I think he was definitely involved and the boyfriend recanted because he got to him somehow. 

[TVbitch]

I found the husband off-putting, also. He seemed more upset that he "failed as a man" than that his wife was dead. ..um, it's not about you, buddy! He also talked about how she was so beautiful when she was younger, but now snored and was built like a tank. He also mentioned he was a man, so was a dog, but just looked but didn't touch other women. Ew. I get the feeling the spark might have gone out of their marriage.

The boyfriend wanting to steal guns makes sense since he had just been busted for stealing guns. 

Now for the important part: I would like to start a gofundme for Andrea Canning to get a makeover. Or actually, a makeunder. If she would just lay off the pink lipstick, botox, and super dark brow tint that makes her look like Spock about say something is "fascinating," she would look so much better! 

[Medicine Crow]

19 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

I found the husband off-putting, also. He seemed more upset that he "failed as a man" than that his wife was dead. ..um, it's not about you, buddy! He also talked about how she was so beautiful when she was younger, but now snored and was built like a tank. He also mentioned he was a man, so was a dog, but just looked but didn't touch other women. Ew. I get the feeling the spark might have gone out of their marriage.

The boyfriend wanting to steal guns makes sense since he had just been busted for stealing guns. 

Now for the important part: I would like to start a gofundme for Andrea Canning to get a makeover. Or actually, a makeunder. If she would just lay off the pink lipstick, botox, and super dark brow tint that makes her look like Spock about say something is "fascinating," she would look so much better! 

I can't watch anything with her in it because I just can't take her seriously.  Others have said she's very accomplished, & she is, but ...

[Irlandesa]

5 hours ago, Pi237 said:

Then, he kept mentioning needing to be strong for the kids…it was like he was trying to remember a script. I think he was definitely involved and the boyfriend recanted because he got to him somehow. 

The more he talked, the more I thought I'd probably find him someone I wouldn't want to hang out with.

But being weird or off-putting or not reacting to a tragedy the way people expect them to doesn't make someone a murderer.

The boyfriend recanted because nothing about his story could be substantiated. In fact,  some parts they proved were lies.

The police really wanted to nail the dad but they didn't have any evidence.   Not 'not enough evidence'  but no evidence.  They couldn't find a motive. They didn't find any communication between the dad and the ex-boyfriend. No phone calls.  No money exchanges.  No texts. 

The dad also gave the cops Julian's name as a possible suspect. I just don't see him doing that if he hired him to murder his wife. 

All of the DNA was to the ex-boyfriend.

The surveillance video at the gas station where the dad supposedly grabbed the ex-bf and "forced" him to kill his wife didn't back up any meeting.

I think what happened is that during the interrogation, he got the sense that the cops really wanted to connect the husband to this crime and they probably even made promises about a reduced sentence if he would fess up.  And so he lied.

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Irlandesa

[JudyObscure]

I don't think Peter did it, but when he called Julius an idiot he used the very word I called him.  You didn't "fail as a man,"  Peter, you failed as an intelligent person when you filled your house with guns and let everyone know about it.

I was ready to give Peter that mythical electric chair for calling his dead wife a tank and implying she should be able to handle a murderer because of her extra weight.  Women don't usually gain muscle, Peter, they gain fat which just makes them slower.  You would know that if you weren't an idiot.

On another subject, don't all of you find it odd that two teachers couldn't live a little better.  That house was so depressing.  Brown on brown accented with  shades of tan, cluttered and dirty. Just sad.  I guess all those guns were using up the money with nothing left over for a can of paint.

[Morrigan2575]

I think I missed it. Why did Julius target Manuela? I figured he'd go after his Ex, not her mom.

[Blissfool]

Why would Julius go steal guns at night when 4 grown, abled bodies would be home?

Also, the teen girl said she had just gotten home from her boyfriend's house? Was Julius the bf or was there a new one? 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Blissfool

[Morrigan2575]

11 minutes ago, Blissfool said:

Also, the teen girl said she had just gotten home from her boyfriend's house? Was Julius the bf or was there a new one? 

Different boyfriend.  Julius was the ex-boyfriend of the 18 year old daughter.  It was the 16 year old daughter that had just gotten back from her boyfriends. She's also the one that went looking for her mom in the morning.  The 18 year old was out of the house/town, when this happened.

Wierdly enough when they locked onto Julius I thought maybe his Ex, the older daughter put him up to it.

[iMonrey]

14 hours ago, TVbitch said:

I would like to start a gofundme for Andrea Canning to get a makeover. Or actually, a makeunder. If she would just lay off the pink lipstick, botox, and super dark brow tint that makes her look like Spock about say something is "fascinating," she would look so much better! 

What about the DA? Yet another woman who puffed up her lips with fillers then drew attention to them by painting them bright Day-Glo pink.

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

On another subject, don't all of you find it odd that two teachers couldn't live a little better.  That house was so depressing.  Brown on brown accented with  shades of tan, cluttered and dirty. Just sad. 

It speaks to how poorly teachers are paid. I also noticed a window A/C unit on the top floor. No central air? In Texas? Yikes.

29 minutes ago, Blissfool said:

Why would Julius go steal guns at night when 4 grown, abled bodies would be home?

It seemed like he expected to find guns in the garage. The master bedroom had a connection to the garage thru a laundry room. I suspect it was either an add-on or not intended to be a bedroom. Julius might have thought he could sneak through the master to wherever the guns were stored and got caught by Manuela.

[CrystalBlue]

On 10/14/2023 at 8:17 AM, iMonrey said:

The Footprint at the Lake: Either I'm getting too good at this, or the show is getting too bad. As soon as they brought up the daughter's boyfriend that the family took in for awhile, I knew he was the killer. That just seemed too random a fact to bring up so early. They were interviewing the husband and one of the sons, so I knew it wasn't either of them. But they weren't interviewing the other kids so I knew it was either one of them or a boyfriend, or an ex, etc.

Tragic all the way around, I felt sorry for Julius's father. Did anyone else think it was strange how quickly Lt. Wilk found Manuela's car and body? 

The police work seemed suspiciously shoddy. They had bloody footprints at the crime scene, did they think to take the husband's footprints to see if they matched? And Melanie went back to the police the very next day after the murder and said she suspected Julius, and yet they still kept interrogating Peter? (And threatened him with the electric chair, which - doesn't exist.) It was like they only stumbled over Julius after looking to question Cory. Lucky for them Julius was staying there. 

People who have a large arsenal of guns really make themselves a target so it seems like a false sense of security to me.

Lucky for Cory that Julius was staying there.  Otherwise the cops could have pinned it on Cory and accuse him of being the bicycle rider, concocting a story about how Julius gave him the bike or left it there.

I remember this story from another show and remembered that it was the boyfriend who killed his girlfriend's mother, but had forgotten about the "ex" aspect.

[CrystalBlue]

18 hours ago, Medicine Crow said:

I can't watch anything with her in it because I just can't take her seriously.  Others have said she's very accomplished, & she is, but ...

I suck it up buttercup when watching the Andrea episodes because of the entertainment value of her wardrobe choices and jewelry collection.  For interviewing skills it's Dennis Murphy and Josh M. but my favorite is Keith Morrison!

[pdlinda]

19 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Now for the important part: I would like to start a gofundme for Andrea Canning to get a makeover. Or actually, a makeunder.

Everything you mentioned plus a stylist so perhaps her outfits might evolve from the "cocktail/garden party" circuit into more of a "reporter's" sphere.  Her jewelry, also, could use an upgrade/or downgrade.☺️

[CrystalBlue]

I finished watching the Footstep On the Lake episode this evening and saw Andrea's hard-hitting prison interview with Julius.  It just doesn't make sense to go into the house to steal guns and wind up stabbing Mrs. Allen 47 times then shooting her.

Are we all certain that Peter didn't have anything to do with it and it was all Julius?  It's telling that the daughter pegged her ex-boyfriend to be who to look at the very next day when talking to the cops.

[iMonrey]

1 hour ago, CrystalBlue said:

It just doesn't make sense to go into the house to steal guns and wind up stabbing Mrs. Allen 47 times then shooting her.

They established that Julius had some really serious mental health issues so there's really no point in trying to make sense of his behavior. He was caught, he panicked and he flipped out. Being hired to kill her doesn't explain the 47 stab wounds either.

Peter was a character all right, but he had zero motive for his wife's death. He didn't stand to gain financially and there was no evidence he was having an affair with anyone. None of the usual red flags. 

20 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I think what happened is that during the interrogation, he got the sense that the cops really wanted to connect the husband to this crime and they probably even made promises about a reduced sentence if he would fess up.  And so he lied.

Good theory. There was no reason for him to recant once he was in jail if he expected any kind of appeal.

6 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

suck it up buttercup when watching the Andrea episodes because of the entertainment value of her wardrobe choices and jewelry collection.

Not gonna lie, I covet her jewelry sets.

[12catcrazy]

When they brought up the boyfriend who was taken in by the family for a while, I pegged him as the killer.  You watch enough of these Datelines you kind of pick up on stuff like that, especially since it looked as if the husband and son were not being interviewed in a jail (although sometimes they try and fake us out with letting them wear shirts on top when they are on camera). 

This was another case where the cops thought they were going to pin it on the husband.  Not that it's a bad idea to look at the #1 choice at first, but sometimes I think they get closed off to other ideas.   And while most of you don't like the husband, I was glad that he was cleared - he was kind of weird but also seemed like a straight shooter.   He was former military - maybe some kind of Special Forces?  Those guys are pretty much brainwashed to think in a certain way (even to get them through their training), so to most of us, the "I've failed as a man" thing seems weird and over the top, but that's how many of those guys think (I was in the Air Force 40 plus years ago, so I get it).  

The same thing with all the guns.  Maybe it's a macho thing or a local hobby but people in rural states have arsenals and nobody thinks much of it.   2nd Amendment rights and gun culture.   Julius was a real moron though as why go to rob a house where the owners are armed to the teeth and usually home at night?  If I remember, at the beginning of the episode, at least some of the family had been away, so did they come back early, or did Julius think they were still away?  What a stupid senseless crime though - this family had been mostly kind to him and this is how he repaid it.  Evil does walk in this world. 

[iMonrey]

My DVR recorded Secrets in Pleasant Prairie on Saturday, I assume this was intended to be the Thursday episode that was bumped for football. Pretty straight-forward "the husband did it" case. I've either seen it before, or I have at least seen the female prosecutor before. Maybe she's the killer. She just keeps killing people so she can be on Dateline again. Watch out, people in Kenosha!

[Peanut6711]

12 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

This was another case where the cops thought they were going to pin it on the husband.  Not that it's a bad idea to look at the #1 choice at first, but sometimes I think they get closed off to other ideas.   And while most of you don't like the husband, I was glad that he was cleared - he was kind of weird but also seemed like a straight shooter.   He was former military - maybe some kind of Special Forces?  Those guys are pretty much brainwashed to think in a certain way (even to get them through their training), so to most of us, the "I've failed as a man" thing seems weird and over the top, but that's how many of those guys think (I was in the Air Force 40 plus years ago, so I get it).  

The same thing with all the guns.  Maybe it's a macho thing or a local hobby but people in rural states have arsenals and nobody thinks much of it.   2nd Amendment rights and gun culture.   Julius was a real moron though as why go to rob a house where the owners are armed to the teeth and usually home at night?  If I remember, at the beginning of the episode, at least some of the family had been away, so did they come back early, or did Julius think they were still away?  What a stupid senseless crime though - this family had been mostly kind to him and this is how he repaid it.  Evil does walk in this world. 

Yeah, the husband worked defusing bombs during his military service so that kinda explained his nonchalant attitude. He was trained to stay calm in tense situations.  I was glad he was cleared too. He was quirky, but I think genuinely cared about his family. 

I wondered too if Julius thought they weren't going to be home. They mentioned early in the episode that the family had recently returned from a several week trip to Germany and considered the angle that it was a burglar who knew about the trip but thought they were still away. 

Also agree, very tragic and senseless violence. Julius must have had some serious issues to unleash that kind of brutality on a woman he actually liked. 

[iMonrey]

Bethany Vanished: These one-hour cases are really pretty cut and dry. Shows how little mystery there actually is if Dateline doesn't pad it out with all sorts of red herrings and false leads. 

That said, they're not very good at telling the story in an hour either. There always seems to be important info missing. Like the entire backstory on this Ronald guy. The killer just ended up being an enigma. No history, no family, no explanation, no nothing.

I also missed what the hell happened to Bethany's kid the night she disappeared. She had her son with her when she left her grandmother's house, her husband followed her halfway home, by the time anyone realized she was missing, where the hell was the kid? Did she drop him off somewhere?

[Peanut6711]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Bethany Vanished: These one-hour cases are really pretty cut and dry. Shows how little mystery there actually is if Dateline doesn't pad it out with all sorts of red herrings and false leads. 

That said, they're not very good at telling the story in an hour either. There always seems to be important info missing. Like the entire backstory on this Ronald guy. The killer just ended up being an enigma. No history, no family, no explanation, no nothing.

I also missed what the hell happened to Bethany's kid the night she disappeared. She had her son with her when she left her grandmother's house, her husband followed her halfway home, by the time anyone realized she was missing, where the hell was the kid? Did she drop him off somewhere?

Agree!  I spent several segments muttering out loud, "So is the kid missing too? Where is he?"  Dateline could benefit from some better editors. Or "beta watchers."   Later they finally said he was living with Bethany's mother after they suspected abuse from Ronald. But how he got there that night, no clue.  And if the son was living with her mom, was it normal for her to go 3 weeks without seeing him and just responding to FB messages with things like "don't want to talk now?"  Also, while they did indicate she was going to move out, I don't believe they ever said where to. Was she getting another apartment w/out Ronald? Moving in with her mother's to be with her son? Moving back in w/her husband? 

Wish they would have had the police show or comment on the messages she received and exchanged on her phone while at her grandmother's, the last night anyone saw her. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Peanut6711

[ButterQueen]

On 10/15/2023 at 10:11 AM, JudyObscure said:

I don't think Peter did it, but when he called Julius an idiot he used the very word I called him.  You didn't "fail as a man,"  Peter, you failed as an intelligent person when you filled your house with guns and let everyone know about it.

I was ready to give Peter that mythical electric chair for calling his dead wife a tank and implying she should be able to handle a murderer because of her extra weight.  Women don't usually gain muscle, Peter, they gain fat which just makes them slower.  You would know that if you weren't an idiot.

On another subject, don't all of you find it odd that two teachers couldn't live a little better.  That house was so depressing.  Brown on brown accented with  shades of tan, cluttered and dirty. Just sad.  I guess all those guns were using up the money with nothing left over for a can of paint.

I’ve noticed a lot of houses that are unbelievably dirty and cluttered.  The size of the house/household income makes no difference.  I’m always fascinated by the amount of clutter in some homes.  I’ve snapped a few pics of some.  😂 

[Mondrianyone]

Watched last night's episode, "65 Seconds," and was interested to see a new reporter. Found her ultimately pretty disappointing. She seemed from the Andrea Canning school of asking leading questions and telling people how she was sure they felt instead of just letting them speak for themselves, although some of them were not all that compelling. I hope she was a one-and-done rather than a permanent fixture.

I felt there was a huge gap in the story itself. Both Nick and Heidi had what seemed like pretty good jobs for a young couple, he running a division of his father's home-improvement company and she working with her father (there's clearly a theme) at a financial firm. So presumably they made decent salaries--enough to buy a house. Then what the hell did he do with the money he wasn't paying taxes and bills with? He must've had some kind of secret life that he was pouring all that cash into, but no one thought to mention the possibility even casually. And nice that he had so many loyal friends who believed in him despite his obvious guilt and were willing to disregard that he was doing the same thing again with wife number two.

[iMonrey]

OK, fellow Dateliners: who here didn't know, within the first 65 seconds of this episode, that the husband did it? It had all the telltale signs, most significantly that we saw neither hide nor hair of the husband himself.

And it took him until after he'd been released from the hospital, made his way to police headquarters, and was interviewed for an unknown amount of time before he got around to asking if his wife was still alive? What? Wouldn't that be the first thing out of your mouth as you were being hauled away to the hospital and every minute afterwards until you got an answer?

I wish shows like this would leave religion out of the story. I'm so tired of hearing from friends and relatives who go on and on about the murderer's and victim's Christian faith and how involved they were in church etc. etc. Please. Most of the murderers profiled on this show go to church. It doesn't dissuade me from believing they're murderers. 

The thing that really kind of pissed me off (and this happens a lot) was during the first hour, Heidi's family talked about how much they loved Nick and how great they were together, blah blah blah. Then 70 minutes in, they said they suspected Nick right from the start. Wait, what? Oh, now you tell us? After sitting through an hour of you talking him up? 

As for the second wife: let this be a lesson. Don't marry someone whose wife was just murdered and is still unsolved. Just don't. I mean that's just common sense.

38 minutes ago, Mondrianyone said:

Watched last night's episode, "65 Seconds," and was interested to see a new reporter. Found her ultimately pretty disappointing. She seemed from the Andrea Canning school of asking leading questions and telling people how she was sure they felt instead of just letting them speak for themselves, although some of them were not all that compelling.

Andrea Canning? Please. She wasn't even wearing a necklace!

[Mondrianyone]

2 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Andrea Canning? Please. She wasn't even wearing a necklace!

Definitely. If you have to watch bad, performative reporting, it should at least come with covetable jewelry. (Jeez, how many times have I posted about Andrea's jewelry by now? I may have a problem.)

[TVbitch]

I always find it odd that the brand new woman in the "widowers" life will think she knows him so much better than so many of the people around him. ...."Oh, don't look at those news articles accusing him of murder, that is just biased reporting!" I would not even get involved with a man whose wife JUST died of any cause! 

On the new reporter... I will reserve judgement for a couple episodes, but I was annoyed by the way she whispered her questions to the family of the deceased, like she was speaking to them at a funeral or something.