All Episodes Discussion

[UsernameFatigue]

I didn't watch this Dateline epi, as I knew I had seen the story before, and thought Dateline was just repackaging as a new epi by adding a couple of minutes of new info. Now I realize that it must have been the 48 Hours version that I watched. 

Doesn't seem like there was much new info, but I do remember posting after the 48 Hours epi how happy I was that there are now two less morons killing innocent animals. And to call hunting a sport is laughable. Sports are fair, and the only way hunting would be a sport is if the animals were armed with guns (or bows and arrows as the case might be) as well.

I don't remember the 48 Hrs version talking about Bianca being deeply religious. But yes, the Catholic faith has allowed cremation since the early 1960s. My husband was raised Catholic (though has not been a practicing Catholic in his adulthood) and I asked him years ago whether he wanted to be cremated or buried. His answer? "Surprise me". Lol. 

[eel21788]

On 12/3/2022 at 10:07 AM, iMonrey said:

If I live to be a thousand I will never understand the appeal of hunting animals for sport. But that's just me. 

It's not just you.

I love shooting animals, but I use a camera. 

[eel21788]

58 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

And to call hunting a sport is laughable. Sports are fair, and the only way hunting would be a sport is if the animals were armed with guns (or bows and arrows as the case might be) as well. 

On the radio program I listen to, one of the guys insists that you can't call anything a sport unless there is a defense. I doubt claws and teeth would count, so you're right: hunting is not a sport.

[GiandujaPie]

The safari dentist was beyond disgusting. You could just tell he was an a-hole and d-bag. His whole business seemed shady and I hope the IRS audited them. It's one thing to offer a discount to patients who have no insurance, but to give a discount for paying in actual cash?

And that mistress was annoying. Not sure why the dentist was so enamored with her. She was a single mom, older, no discernible skills other than as a dental hygenist. If I had been the dentist, I would have called her bluff when she issued the ultimatum. Who else was she going to find that would provide her with that cushy lifestyle? I couldn't believe when she was begging for him to get his kids to back off so that she would be able to provide a living for herself. Maybe she should have thought of that before doing what she did. 

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that the dentist bribed some local officials to mark the case as accidental in Africa. It seemed like they were interested in investigating and then abruptly shut down the case as an accident. My husband, who is a lawyer, said he thought that should have been enough for the defense to point to reasonable doubt. However, because the dentist likely insisted on testiying in his own defense, he probably came off as unlikable and the jury convicted him. 

[iMonrey]

On 12/3/2022 at 3:20 PM, Crashcourse said:

As sad as it was that the woman was murdered, I couldn't help imagining that the wild animals in Zambia did high fives. 

On 12/3/2022 at 3:29 PM, Mondrianyone said:

This is one of those rare times I didn't feel sorry for the victim.

I grew up in the midwest and have friends who were raised hunting deer or duck. They assure me it's necessary to cull the population. I'm not sure I buy that, but surely there is no danger of leopards over-running Zambia. I can't comprehend how anyone would find pleasure in killing such a beautiful animal. Does it make me a bad person that I see some karmic justice in Bianca Rudolph being shot to death? Then I'm a bad person. I guess.

Quote

His whole business seemed shady and I hope the IRS audited them. It's one thing to offer a discount to patients who have no insurance, but to give a discount for paying in actual cash?

If my dentist said he wanted me to pay in cash I'd find another dentist. That's sketchy as hell.

[CraftyHazel]

Thank the stars above that last night’s story “The Last Walk” was Keith Morrison and not Andrea Canning!  I’ve never seen Keith lose his cool like that with a convict, though!  “Bullshit!”, especially coming from the unflappable Keith, was the perfect response to the killer trying to soft soap his way out of responsibility.  Lord, I love Keith!

[TVbitch]

Re-run with an update.

I was also pleased they did not air a lot of the killer's blathering. Just enough to show how calculated his performance was. Keith bringing up his previous assault of an 8-year-old after he spoke of missing his girlfriend's daughter was excellent. And the killer laughing when Keith called him out for being full of shit was so telling. Hope they get the girlfriend. How in the hell does someone who abets an ex-con serial rapist kidnapper murderer become a nurse? Chilling. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Re-run with an update.

I thought I recognized Brittnee's picture but I did not remember the story. I'm not sure what my take-away is on this. Don't get into cars with strangers? That's something most of us learned when we were five. I don't think she willingly accepted a ride from Raymond and Angel. They didn't exactly look harmless. I think they grabbed her.

Brittnee's little brother Camden has a most unfortunate haircut IMO but I guess it's a look. Also, best friend Tara has some long-ass talons.

[EtheltoTillie]

Very confusing episode. Too long. 

[The Closer]

This episode is exactly what I want from these types of shows.

I love that Keith called out the disappearing tears of the murderer, his referencing of the age of the murderer's granddaughter, and calling out the way the murderer was making Brittanee a willing participant (including the voice over that stated she did not like pot.) This is not a trivial thing to me and why I prefer Dateline to many of these other types of shows. Keith never lost sight that there was a real victim here and protected her reputation accordingly rather than leaving it out there and letting the public think, "Hey, Brittanee didn't deserve to get murdered but she was a 17 year old girl doing drugs and looking to party..." as if she had an active role in her own death which is exactly the picture the murderer was trying to paint.

I also love that they gave Timothy Taylor what the FBI couldn't - a public acknowledgement that he was innocent and wrongly accused. 

Tara is a strong friend and I liked that Dateline chose to end with the happy memories between the two. 

Personally, I am not a fan of commenting on people's appearances in general, but particularly when it's friends or family of a murdered victim.

[QQQQ]

I've been watching Dateline on Peacock lately, but for some reason almost all episodes are cut off several minutes before over (then the next episode starts). Trying to fast forward to the end doesn't work either. So frustrating to make it through 1+ hours but not know the endings 😅

[JudyObscure]

QQQQ, I watch it on my computer at the CBS show site.   If it's a 2 hour episode it starts to skip a little bit in the last half hour or so, but it does make it till the end.

I do like to be able to pause and take a longer look at some things.  I'm  endlessly nosey about people's houses.  Angel and Mr. Evil had painted all the rooms in deep colors and failed to do the trim properly.  The kitchen was the expected mess.  The bed lacked sheets.  The TV was in a shelving unit with hundreds of DVDs - they're so easy to steal.  I imagine their home life was; get fast food, get high, watch TV. 

But don't most of those shows and movies have at least some sort of lesson or message that would teach right from wrong?  Something that would teach empathy for young victims?  How do people end up so heartless?  How do they find each other?  Most of all how on earth did Angel become a nurse?

[12catcrazy]

This was a sad episode.  It's a shame that the dirtbag ever got out of jail in California.  Sex offenders like him are almost never rehabilitated - they just come out of jail learning better ways to do what they do and know that this time you don't leave victims alive to identify you.   I mean, raping an 8 year old - he should have received life without parole or been castrated.   

That piece of work girlfriend of his - Angel.  I think she was involved and from one of those first interviews with the police, seemed to know that her Boyfriend From Hell raped and killed that poor girl.    How she stayed with him is beyond me, and I believe that they need to charge her as an accomplice.

As far as her being a "nurse" , my guess is that she is either a nurse's aide or maybe a "practical nurse" - she doesn't seem to have the smarts to get through school as an R.N.  But yeah, how one takes part or at the very least, helps procure a victim in a horrific rape/murder and goes into a "helping" profession like nursing is a head scratcher.   Then again, there have been a few nurses (and doctors) who become serial killers with their patients as victims, so I guess that anything is possible.  

I don't know about South Carolina, but in New York, you need a 4 year degree to become an R.N. and many R.N.s also go on to get Master's as well.  

[LuvMyShows]

9 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I do like to be able to pause and take a longer look at some things.  I'm  endlessly nosey about people's houses.  

I like checking out people's houses in the re-creations when the crime took place in the 70s or 80s, and seeing if they made the house appropriate in design for the era, in terms of the type of inside doors, kitchen counter types, flooring, etc.

On 12/10/2022 at 11:54 AM, iMonrey said:

I thought I recognized Brittnee's picture but I did not remember the story. I'm not sure what my take-away is on this. Don't get into cars with strangers? That's something most of us learned when we were five. I don't think she willingly accepted a ride from Raymond and Angel. They didn't exactly look harmless. I think they grabbed her.

So one thing I do have a problem with is the assertion, usually by parents but not exclusively, that "so-and-so would never do such-and-such thing".  In the Last Walk, we already know that she lied to her family about where she was going for a several night stay.  And we also know that she went to the room of the "nice boy" who she didn't know.  We've also seen plenty of episodes where the parents say the child isn't dating, and not only are they dating someone, but they end up pregnant. This is not at all to blame the victims, but to point out that there's likely lots that is unknown by even the closest family/friends (see Paige Birgfeld).

[nora1992]

I’m pretty sure this story was done by 20/20 in October, but the narrative was totally different.  I can’t remember any mention of Angel in that version, although Dateline did not hold back from describing her possible/probable involvement.  Normally there never seems to be that much difference in the underlying events, but Dateline had more details that make a sad story even sadder.

[Vivigirl10]

Friday's episode about Kendra, the pediatric dentist, was just heartbreaking.  It was just so senseless.  I have such a hard time wrapping myself around these cases where the victim is doing so much good in the world and the people who take them out are just low life scum of the earth.  

I wanted to cry for Ricky, her boyfriend.  The responsibility he must feel.  I was curious to know more about his relationship with Brenda.  There must have been something positive about her for him to stay with her for 2 years and to live with her.  Although, they described her as a master manipulator so maybe he didn't even know the real her.  

[Irlandesa]

Both Friday and Saturday's episodes were repeats but Saturday's made me the most frustrated.  That poor girl who couldn't even get an indictment and the boyfriend of one of the victims who had the DNA clear him but was still suspected because he failed the notoriously unreliable lie detector test.  He was a kid whose girlfriend just died and he was upset over a silly fight about bread a few days earlier---of course he's going to fail the lie detector test.

[iMonrey]

10 Minutes to Sunset: I definitely remember this one. I don't know how NBC manages to repackage these episodes so that my DVR sees them as "new." But in this case they really did sort of redo the whole thing. There were no updates to the story, they just sort of re-edited it. I think they spent a lot more time on the manhunt portion in the original version. 

Anyway, yeah - feel sorry for the boyfriend who has to carry that guilt around with him for the rest of his life. 

[Morrigan2575]

10 Minutes into The Secrets of Birchview Drive and I'm going to make a Wild Ass Guess...husband killed wife and then faked home Invasion to cover up the murder 

[Cementhead]

It's always the husband, isn't it?  My husband and I call this show "Some guy croaked his wife."  A line taken from NYPD Blue's Sipowicz about a hundred years ago that still cracks us up and yet still rings true almost 100% of the time to this day.

[TVbitch]

Andrea Canning: Your heart must have ached for your nephews ..losing their mom ..in that way ..at that age ..when they need her the most ..with all those things she won't be there for ..when it will pretty much totally destroy their lives. On the bright side, my legs look amazing in this flouncy sheer mini, right?

Okay before you admonish me for picking on Andrea again, keep in mind I did not say one single thing about the shiny gold number with the sky high slit she wore to interview the homicide investigators! 

[iMonrey]

Secrets of Birch View Drive:

Did anyone doubt Rick was the killer within five seconds of seeing his creepy visage? Honestly, Jason Voorhees and Freddie Krueger have nothing on this guy, he looks like he's straight out of central casting for "scary looking murderer."

Plus his story didn't make a lick of sense. Why would the intruder shoot his wife but leave him alive and half-ass tie him to a chair, by only one leg and one arm? Talk about a giveaway.

Then, of course, the most obvious Dateline giveaway of all: if they are not interviewing the husband, the husband is the killer. 

Why do these defense attorneys agree to go on camera? They just look so stupid, it can't be good for their reputation. 

The story said the Dabates had cats. I want to know what happened to the cats. That's who I care about.

I kind of loved Andrea Canning's powder blue sweater with the pearl accents. But good grief, what was she thinking with that gold lame dress? Totally unflattering and inappropriate. 

[Steph J]

30 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Plus his story didn't make a lick of sense. Why would the intruder shoot his wife but leave him alive and half-ass tie him to a chair, by only one leg and one arm? Talk about a giveaway.

I'll be honest, when they said he was tied to a chair, I was like "Oh, finally an episode where the spouse didn't do it." When they added that he claimed that the intruders left one arm untied, allowing him to fight back, I was like... Oh. He's a liar and a terrible one at that.

Although, when the show got to the part where the friends were explaining that he didn't seem to know them and was randomly asking them where to go in town, I started wondering if we were in a for a real soap opera twist where it would be revealed that he had a secret twin who decided to take over his life, but... no. It's just that he's dumb, I guess.

I'm also baffled by how the mistress' testimony could have helped him in any way. So she didn't "pressure" him to leave (according to her - the way that she said it made me think that she's playing the "technically" game, where if she never said, "I'm pressuring you to leave" and/or he never said "I feel pressured by you to leave" then technically it's not a lie because no one used the word "pressure"). She also kept seeing him even after he was arrested and, I presume, was letting him have a role in their child's life. She obviously had a vested interest in him not going to prison.

And that's laying aside the obvious credibility issue in someone who can say "I didn't want to break up a family" while having an affair and baby with a man whose wedding she attended.

[Guest]

Yes to all the above. 

I’d like to add that Birch View Drive is one place I would not want to live. 

The Three Musketeers or The Three Amigos were beyond nosy, intrusive and just plain old annoying.  The one “best friend” tried as hard as she could to muster a few tears but alas, none came. That small detail did not stop her thought from wiping her eye and cheeks not once, not twice but three times.  Lord have Mercy. 

Then we have the sainted deceased just walking into everyone’s home.  No knocking just barging in through the kitchen. Suppose someone was walking around in their underwear or more than likely in my home someone (me) sneaking cookies that I’d prefer to eat alone.

Growing up we did not have neighbors or friends coming by unannounced.  Every now and then a surprise visit was always welcomed but to have a swinging door on your house would to me, be very annoying. 

And one more comment…those who are admired as “the perfect couple” rarely, if ever are. 

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Plus his story didn't make a lick of sense. Why would the intruder shoot his wife but leave him alive and half-ass tie him to a chair, by only one leg and one arm? Talk about a giveaway.

My mom said the same thing. Alongside the bizarre way he was left alive, there's also the fact that this supposed intruder would've just left a witness behind, someone who could potentially identify him. No way would an intruder do that unless they were really stupid (which, to be fair, would not be entirely unlikely, knowing how stupid some criminals can indeed be :p. But obviously that wasn't the case here).

I loved how the prosecutor kept making a big point during the trial of calling out the "Vin Diesel" comparison that Rick initially made, as a way of showing the jury that Rick clearly wanted to make this whole thing sound like a super dramatic showdown to make himself look better or more badass or something. 

The fact his story kept changing didn't help matters, either. Yes, if someone is attacked, their memory may have holes in it and there's some details or aspects of the timeline of events that might be a little fuzzy as a result, sure. That happens. I agree with that. 

But yeah, you're going to remember the details of how your wife was killed, and whether you heard her being killed or saw her being killed. That's not a detail that's going to shift, that's going to be pretty straightforward. In his case, it was obvious his shifting story wasn't because his memory was fuzzy or because he was miraculously starting to put the pieces together, it's because he was a lying liar who lies and he wanted to try and get his story straight once he realized that the investigators weren't buying what he was selling. 

There's also the fact that if an intruder really had attacked him and left him alive, if I were in his shoes, I'd be terrified and looking over my shoulder until said intruder was caught, 'cause, hey, what if they came back to finish the job? What if they threatened me or my family? But he didn't seem at all worried about that possibility. 

54 minutes ago, Steph J said:

I'm also baffled by how the mistress' testimony could have helped him in any way. So she didn't "pressure" him to leave (according to her - the way that she said it made me think that she's playing the "technically" game, where if she never said, "I'm pressuring you to leave" and/or he never said "I feel pressured by you to leave" then technically it's not a lie because no one used the word "pressure"). She also kept seeing him even after he was arrested and, I presume, was letting him have a role in their child's life. She obviously had a vested interest in him not going to prison.

And that's laying aside the obvious credibility issue in someone who can say "I didn't want to break up a family" while having an affair and baby with a man whose wedding she attended.

Again, exact same thing my mom said :p. Yeah. She was so full of it, dancing around the answers to the questions on the stand and trying to play the innocent bystander. 

I was also struck by how everyone kept talking about how they were concerned about whether or not the jury  would find Rick guilty, given there was "no history of violence" and thus it might be hard for them to believe a guy could suddenly kill his wife like this. I mean...even if there wasn't a history of physical violence, that doesn't mean he wasn't abusing his wife at all. I could totally see him being emotionally and mentally abusive to her - they seemed to allude to that possibility when the mistress was being asked if Rick had ever said nasty things about his wife to her. I could easily see Rick being critical of his wife's looks, and belittling her or making snide, harsh, cruel remarks to her in general, and wearing her down to where she'd feel awful and insecure about herself. And if he did indeed do that...that's still abuse, people. Abuse does not have to be physical (and that's presuming that there wasn't physical abuse that was just never reported, which is also a possibility). 

That would also explain those moments her friends talked about when Rick would be all, "Oh, you sit, let me take care of you!" and whatnot to his wife. Not only was it a prime example of him being one of those overly showy "Look at me, look at how great and wonderful I am!" types of husbands who feel the need to put on a big presentation in front of others, but my mom also noted that that kind of behavior felt like another way for him to control his wife. Sort of a, "See how nice I'm being now? Remember this, you'll owe me." sorts of deals. And that kind of public display could also read as a way for him to show everyone how "great" a husband he was so that if his wife ever did confess to the others how he really treated her, they'd have a much harder time believing her, 'cause hey, look at how he treated her around them! No way could he be abusive, right? 

I agree that it wouldn't make sense for a guy to just suddenly wake up one day and decide to kill his wife out of nowhere, for no reason. That just typically doesn't happen. Which is why I definitely think there was a lot of build up to this moment that the couple's family and friends didn't see or weren't aware of, a lot of emotional and mental abuse that ultimately culminated in Rick having an affair, realizing he wasn't going to be able to have his cake and eat it too, and deciding to resolve the situation in such a horrific way.

[mythoughtis]

The Last Walk.   
 

yes, Tara was a close friend.  But she and the boyfriend were just as immature at the time as the victim.  They supported her in her deception about where she was.  In addition, mom and dad either approved a 17 year old going 50 miles away to a beach for several days with people who were only slightly older than her ( such as Tara) or they believed but did not verify that someone’s  parent  was going along.   That is pretty naive for 2013.  Still doesn’t mean any of them deserved what happened. 
Tara and the boyfriend however didn't waste any time when the victim stopped texting.  I was impressed by how soon they got the parents involved.

The Taylor’s  deserve a very definite statement clearing them.  They deserved that as soon as the guy confessed and took them to the body.   They also deserved a statement earlier when the inmate recanted or changed his story.   Even if all that was said at that time was ‘ the inmate  recanted.  We have nothing to arrest the Taylor’s for  ‘.   
I firmly believe that the killer has several other victims out there.  He made it pretty plain to Keith  that he was familiar with how kidnapped people reacted on real life as opposed to the movies.   I also do not believe that Angel is innocent.   For one reason, I think the victim did not get into that car willingly- or if she did, was incapacitated almost immediately and that happened in Angel’s presence.  Otherwise she would have  answered her boyfriends text. 

 

 

 

[DonnaMae]

8 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

10 Minutes into The Secrets of Birchview Drive and I'm going to make a Wild Ass Guess...husband killed wife and then faked home Invasion to cover up the murder 

Have there been any episodes in the last few months where the spouse didn't either do the killing or hire it done?  I thought from the very beginning that this marriage wasn't so perfect.  Why couldn't he just get a divorce?  What a terrible thing to do to this little boys.

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Did anyone doubt Rick was the killer within five seconds of seeing his creepy visage? Honestly, Jason Voorhees and Freddie Krueger have nothing on this guy, he looks like he's straight out of central casting for "scary looking murderer."

He looked like he was drunk in the hospital bed.

[Irlandesa]

7 hours ago, Cementhead said:

It's always the husband, isn't it?

Ha.  There was a late night rerun last night/this morning where a woman killed a teen who broke into her home and tried to kill her.  She really thought it might be her ex-husband, who was abusive.  Or later her current husband, after they split because she was abusive. 

But ten years later, she was arrested for killing the teen.  It turns out, she set up the teen to get killed so she could frame it on her ex-husband with whom she was engaged in a custody fight.  It turns out, she was the abusive one.

It's a great 2 hour episode with a lot of twists and turns, although the gray in the woman's hair during the interview kind of gave away the fact that she was likely incarcerated. 

So not always the husband. 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Irlandesa

[Enigma X]

Rick Dabate: I do not understand some people's attractions. I have to keep reminding myself that there are different strokes for different folks.

[mythoughtis]

So he calls his boss ‘ I will be late, got to check out the security system’ .  Then he goes home and doesn’t check out the security system. He fixes himself some coffee , surfs the internet. There’s a gun in the closet, which he doesn’t get after the intruder leaves the closet nor does  he call 911  as he’s following the guy into the basement.  Where supposedly his wife is going after the second gun.  The gun she’s definitely afraid of 

The not remembering the wife’s best friends who live next door and he sees every day.   I have never gone to a funeral of a person  whose family member should  easily recognize me and had them not recognize me.  That’s not to say that I haven’t had to introduce myself to a co-workers spouse or parents. 
 

I didn’t believe the girlfriend. If she could have gotten away with giving him an alibi, she would have 

[Annber03]

I also loved how Rick was trying to make it seem like his wife was totally on board with the baby thing, that they were all in on getting this other woman pregnant. It's like the guys whose wives die and they start talking about how they and their wife had a swingers lifestyle or an open relationship and the wife was apparently perfectly fine with this. I tell ya, it's just amazing how so many of these wives are apparently so cool with this stuff, and just so very tragic that they're conveniently not there to confirm or deny the husband's claims!

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

Ha.  There was a late night rerun last night/this morning where a woman killed a teen who broke into her home and tried to kill her.  She really thought it might be her ex-husband, who was abusive.  Or later her current husband, after they split because she was abusive. 

But ten years later, she was arrested for killing the teen.  It turns out, she set up the teen to get killed so she could frame it on her ex-husband with whom she was engaged in a custody fight.  It turns out, she was the abusive one.

It's a great 2 hour episode with a lot of twists and turns, although the gray in the woman's hair during the interview kind of gave away the fact that she was likely incarcerated. 

So not always the husband. 

Oooooh, yeah, that case was wild. And if I recall rightly, that one took place here in my home state of Iowa. 

[JudyObscure]

8 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Andrea Canning: Your heart must have ached for your nephews ..losing their mom ..in that way ..at that age ..when they need her the most ..with all those things she won't be there for ..when it will pretty much totally destroy their lives. On the bright side, my legs look amazing in this flouncy sheer mini, right?

Are we even sure that flouncy sheer mini thing was a dress?  I actually gasped when they first showed her walking down the road next  to two people in black funeral garb while wearing that scrap of gauze.  The soft cloth buttons, the  ruffled hem, the sash belt -- all said shorty nighty to me.  Andrea set a new record for herself with that one.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I agree that it wouldn't make sense for a guy to just suddenly wake up one day and decide to kill his wife out of nowhere, for no reason. That just typically doesn't happen. Which is why I definitely think there was a lot of build up to this moment that the couple's family and friends didn't see or weren't aware of, a lot of emotional and mental abuse that ultimately culminated in Rick having an affair, realizing he wasn't going to be able to have his cake and eat it too, and deciding to resolve the situation in such a horrific way.

I don't suppose we'll ever know what happened, but I wonder if maybe it started as an accident. They kept that gun in the basement and she was shot in the basement. Maybe there was a struggle for the gun and she was accidentally shot in the stomach. Then instead of calling an ambulance Rick shot her in the head to finish her off. Who knows which one went down for the gun in the first place but it might have been the culmination of a big fight.

[12catcrazy]

I called "Bulls%$T!" on Rick's story as soon as we were told what happened.  I agree with others above that Rick's story about his wife being A-ok with him getting another woman pregnant was crap, and that possibly him killing his wife was the aftermath of a big argument which was probably generated by her finding out that he was going to be this other woman's baby daddy. 

I wouldn't be surprised if he got the "inspiration" for his story from this case:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire_home_invasion_murders 

Which would have been know to everybody living in the Northeast with even a passing interest in the news.   It was truly horrific and took place in CT.  

And yet again, I shake my head at these people who seem to be living a very comfortable (materially at least) life and all the issues and problems.   I thought the same thing as Annber03 about Rick probably being abusive to his wife when nobody else was around.   Or really laying it on thick because he was having an affair and if anybody suspected, others would be all "Oh, not HIM, can't you see how devoted a husband he is!".    Obviously his family believes him because they seem to feel, "Oh no, Rick couldn't have done this - he's innocent!."  That reaction in the face of all evidence always amazes me as well. 

[BusyOctober]

As soon as I heard the wife was shot, and the husband was “tied up and tortured…with his own tools!!”, I yelled BULLSHIT.  What intruder takes the time to zip tie their victim, take little swipes with a box cutter and fire up a BLOW TORCH when there was a gun available?  Vin Diesel used the gun on Connie with no qualms. Yet Vin Diesel decides he has enough time in between his home invasion gigs scheduled that morning to dick around with Rick?  And Vin Diesel left Rick alive and able to ID Vin Diesel on his way out the door?  
 

I don’t think they mentioned it but I had a few questions about the zip ties…if Rick only had 2 of 4 limbs tied, did the cops find a 2nd person’s DNA on them?  Did the cops ask if Rick was left or right handed?  If his dominant hand was the one Vin Diesel left un-zipped, then why wouldn't that be mentioned as part of the police’s investigation or evidence?

That poor contractor guy who was falsely accused…Dateline showed his picture and said his name several times!  Whether he was a good or bad contractor, I think Dateline did they guy dirty.  Especially since he was ruled out very early on!  Why drag him into it?  Could have told the story about a “potential suspect- a contractor with whom Connie and Rick had a dispute…” 

Sometimes I wonder if Andrea Canning thinks she’s on a dating show.  Her outfits are often cute, but more for a night out for drinks, or brunch with the girls.  Not really appropriate for interviews with police, lawyers and grieving family members.  “Let’s see…I‘ll be traveling to Anchorage, Alaska in February to talk with a widowed 65 year old woman who just lost her only daughter in a terrible, violent manner.  What to wear, what to wear??? I KNOW! My vintage pink and green Lily Pulitzer sundress with the pink and turquoise earrings the size of disco balls, and my lime green silk kitten heels! Nailed it!”

[GiandujaPie]

Most of my thoughts about the Birchview drive case have already been mentioned. However, my husband, (who is an attorney), said he felt there was reasonable doubt based on statements from the defense attorney about the DNA found in 6 different places at the crime scene. I kind of did too, and thought it was weird that Dateline and the prosecutor did not ever bring that up. So I googled it this morning, and it did come up at trial and apparently the prosecution argued that the DNA technology was so advanced that even a miniscule amount could show up on testing these days. That's a little problematic to admit, IMO. I do think Rick obviously did it, for all of the reasons others have already mentioned, but that could be an issue. 

Every episode also seems to mention how wonderful the victim was, how they were such a great friend/neighbor/sister/mom who everyone just loved. Have we ever had a victim that was described as cranky, grumpy, exuded negative energy, etc...? LOL Or every beginning of the episode they always describe the marriage as "perfect" and then we find out that someone was cheating. It's pretty formulaic at this point. But we can't stop watching! LOL

[iMonrey]

Quote

Every episode also seems to mention how wonderful the victim was, how they were such a great friend/neighbor/sister/mom who everyone just loved. Have we ever had a victim that was described as cranky, grumpy, exuded negative energy, etc...?

Yeah they could dispense with the glowing testimonials already. It adds nothing to the story and it's not as if someone is going to go "she was a real bitch, I'm glad she died." These 2-hour episodes tend to be packed with filler and red herrings as it is, we don't need footage of people sitting around singing the praises of the deceased. Nor do we need Andrea asking friends and relatives how they felt learning the victim had died. 

[BusyOctober]

7 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

These 2-hour episodes tend to be packed with filler and red herrings as it is, we don't need footage of people sitting around singing the praises of the deceased. Nor do we need Andrea asking friends and relatives how they felt learning the victim had died. 

I’d also like to eliminate the “best friend” sobbing through interviews, and breathlessly explaining why the deceased should be elevated to Sainthood, ASAP…while trying to not cry.  These interviews are not meant be part of audition reels for some Lifetime movie.

[pdlinda]

15 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

Sometimes I wonder if Andrea Canning thinks she’s on a dating show.  Her outfits are often cute, but more for a night out for drinks, or brunch with the girls.  Not really appropriate for interviews with police, lawyers and grieving family members.

It's impossible for me to believe that Andrea Canning doesn't know that her wardrobe choices are totally inappropriate for a professional news person doing interviews with people involved in ghastly crimes!!

Apparently she isn't being told how her tacky appearance detracts from her professional duties or she has been told and doesn't care how she is perceived.  Maybe her contract specifies that she can dress however she chooses.

I thought the bright coral shirtwaist "dress" (looked like satin material) she wore with the side slit up to her waist) when she was interviewing Connie's immediate family members was the nadir of her image problem.

Andrea seems to consider herself a "celebrity" instead of a serious news professional.  Maybe her talents could be better utilized elsewhere. 

[EtheltoTillie]

On 1/8/2023 at 2:02 PM, 12catcrazy said:

I called "Bulls%$T!" on Rick's story as soon as we were told what happened.  I agree with others above that Rick's story about his wife being A-ok with him getting another woman pregnant was crap, and that possibly him killing his wife was the aftermath of a big argument which was probably generated by her finding out that he was going to be this other woman's baby daddy. 

I wouldn't be surprised if he got the "inspiration" for his story from this case:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire_home_invasion_murders 

Which would have been know to everybody living in the Northeast with even a passing interest in the news.   It was truly horrific and took place in CT.  

And yet again, I shake my head at these people who seem to be living a very comfortable (materially at least) life and all the issues and problems.   I thought the same thing as Annber03 about Rick probably being abusive to his wife when nobody else was around.   Or really laying it on thick because he was having an affair and if anybody suspected, others would be all "Oh, not HIM, can't you see how devoted a husband he is!".    Obviously his family believes him because they seem to feel, "Oh no, Rick couldn't have done this - he's innocent!."  That reaction in the face of all evidence always amazes me as well. 

One of my friends is obsessed with the Cheshire case.  I find it so horrifying I was barely able to read any news about it after the first reports.  The police had the chance to save them and did not intervene. 

[Ohmo]

On 1/7/2023 at 12:51 PM, iMonrey said:

Did anyone doubt Rick was the killer within five seconds of seeing his creepy visage? Honestly, Jason Voorhees and Freddie Krueger have nothing on this guy, he looks like he's straight out of central casting for "scary looking murderer."

I completely agree.  The photo of him on the gurney was all kinds of creepy.  The way he stared into the camera...gave me the willies.

[LakeGal]

Both Dateline & 20/20 are doing the Idaho student murders tonight at the same time.  I hope they have more info than 48 Hrs had last weekend.

[LuvMyShows]

On 1/8/2023 at 2:02 PM, 12catcrazy said:

Or really laying it on thick because he was having an affair and if anybody suspected, others would be all "Oh, not HIM, can't you see how devoted a husband he is!".    Obviously his family believes him because they seem to feel, "Oh no, Rick couldn't have done this - he's innocent!."  That reaction in the face of all evidence always amazes me as well. 

This puts me in mind of the other "wonderful" thing that is mentioned sometimes, which is how devoted he was to her...always stopping by where she worked, checking in with her multiple times a day, wanting to know what she's doing.  And rarely is it perceived as a problem.  In fact, often someone who knew the woman that was inevitably killed, will say something like how flattering it was at first.  SMH

On 1/9/2023 at 10:55 AM, GiandujaPie said:

Every episode also seems to mention how wonderful the victim was, how they were such a great friend/neighbor/sister/mom who everyone just loved. Have we ever had a victim that was described as cranky, grumpy, exuded negative energy, etc...? LOL 

Funny you should mention this!  In the General True Crime Shows forum, I posted this a week ago: "What was interesting about the recent episode 'Cowboy Conman' was that everyone agreed that the victim was a real sh*t...he was a womanizer who conned women out of money, and also lied to employers about his cowboy/ranch hand skills. Rarely is the victim ever portrayed so completely negatively." 

[BusyOctober]

I watched the full two hours of the Idaho murders (only because Andrea Canning was nowhere to be seen/heard).  I really paid attention, but I feel like I didn’t get any more info than what has already been reported.  It must be too early in the case to get some newer intel.  

It’s a horrendous case, and I feel so awful for the families. I want justice for them all, and if the accused is found guilty, he needs to face the harshest punishment possible.

Still so many questions…was this random?  Did he pick one of the girls out of thin air, and started stalking her as part the f his psycho fantasy?  Why didn’t the surviving roommate DO SOMETHING?  We’re all four of the victims sound asleep, and the killer just snuck up on them to swiftly stab them, there was no time for any of them to fight back, or alert the house?

I do not follow TikTok, but all of those “sleuths” shown “reporting”  their theories were so annoying.  Even the podcast couple was irksome.  They all came across as attempts to become “famous”.  But I guess that’s the social media driven world we live in now.

I’ll end on a snarky note.  WTF with that Idaho reporter with the “Mr. America” pompadour?  Was he on his way to a Rick Astley Lookalike Contest after his shoot with Dateline?  Did he just get wrap his performance as Link Larkin in  local community theater production of “Hairspray”?
 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by BusyOctober
Spelling

[Guest]

1 hour ago, BusyOctober said:

I watched the full two hours of the Idaho murders (only because Andrea Canning was nowhere to be seen/heard).

I knew 20/20 was also doing a segment on this.  I couldn't decide which one I was going to drink my wine with until I noticed on facebook Dateline NBC specifically stated that Keith Morrison was reporting.  Done.

1 hour ago, BusyOctober said:

Still so many questions…was this random?  Did he pick one of the girls out of thin air, and started stalking her as part the f his psycho fantasy?  Why didn’t the surviving roommate DO SOMETHING?  We’re all four of the victims sound asleep, and the killer just snuck up on them to swiftly stab them, there was no time for any of them to fight back, or alert the house?

I have the exact same questions.  When my clients come in for a visit it inevitably turns to this topic.  I don't think you're alone in wondering what and how did it happen.

1 hour ago, BusyOctober said:

I do not follow TikTok, but all of those “sleuths” shown “reporting”  their theories were so annoying.  Even the podcast couple was irksome.  They all came across as attempts to become “famous”.  But I guess that’s the social media driven world we live in now.

Yes, a thousand times yes.  It's interesting that you wrote this because over the holidays I attended a neighborhood open house.  Our one neighbor is a detective and again, this topic popped up by a nosy neighbor.  She asked him if he "knew any secrets that he could spill".   Holy cow.  Even in the remote chance he heard something of course he's not going to spill his guts at a Christmas party.  He is not stupid.  

But, when he and I were talking without the crowd around I asked him what does he think of all the internet sleuths.  I follow a few true crime podcasts and am amazed all the influence they have on public opinion. He shook his head and said that although police do like and need input the people searching for fame and fortune on the internet are making their lives miserable.  His work duties aren't as glamorous (he works in a mid sized town) but he's heard his colleagues in larger cities complain that even though they don't mean to rogue internet sleuths are jeopardizing court cases (jury selection) and jury tainting (false rumors) by posting information based on their opinion but readers accepting as truth or partial truth.  He said remember the game Whisper Down the Line?   Multiply that by 100 and then multiply it by the facebook, internet, reddit, til Tok posts.  Then try to do your job of solving the crime with that hanging over your head. 

Off topic slightly...years ago when asked to children what did they want to be when they grew up the top three answers were doctor, nurse, soldier.  Today when asked the same question grammar school children responded overwhelmingly with Influencer (?), football player, and actor.

1 hour ago, BusyOctober said:

I’ll end on a snarky note.  WTF with that Idaho reporter with the Mr. American pompadour?  Was he on his way to a Rick Astley Lookalike Contest after his shoot with Dateline?  Did he just get wrap his performance as Link Larkin in  local community theater production of “Hairspray”?

Rick Astley YES!!!  I couldn't figure out who he resembled.  I didn't catch his name but I did envy the pink lipgloss.  Wish I knew which brand he was wearing.  It was flawless.  And those big white teeth.  Wow.

Edited January 14, 2023 by PsychoKlown

[Irlandesa]

3 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

 I really paid attention, but I feel like I didn’t get any more info than what has already been reported.  It must be too early in the case to get some newer intel.

This is why I haven't watched the episode yet. I knew it'd be two hours and I couldn't fathom how they'd fill that time given how early it is in the case. I am not a fan of Dateline doing episodes about recently breaking murders/crimes.  I get why they feel like they need to strike while the iron is hot but the episodes simultaneously feel overdone (because the news is covering the case too) and not enough (because so much is still not known.)

I wanted to see if my suspicious were right and I appreciate you giving your POV.  I think I'll just delete it from my DVR.

[LakeGal]

I watched both this and the 20/20 episode.  I noticed that Dateline identified the other 2 roommates and 20/20 didn't.  

[Annber03]

6 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

Still so many questions…was this random?  Did he pick one of the girls out of thin air, and started stalking her as part the f his psycho fantasy?  Why didn’t the surviving roommate DO SOMETHING?  We’re all four of the victims sound asleep, and the killer just snuck up on them to swiftly stab them, there was no time for any of them to fight back, or alert the house?

I do not follow TikTok, but all of those “sleuths” shown “reporting”  their theories were so annoying.  Even the podcast couple was irksome.  They all came across as attempts to become “famous”.  But I guess that’s the social media driven world we live in now.

My mom kept asking similar questions. Mainly she wanted to know how this guy was able to kill four people without anyone hearing any screams or anything like that. Mind, that's not an implausible scenario - there's been plenty of stories on this show over the years where a murder happened in a home and the other residents either slept through it or, even if they were awake, didn't hear it for one reason or another (usually because they had headphones on or something). So it can happen, sure...but even knowing that, yeah, I still get people wondering how that could've been the case here. Especially since this crime involved four murders. 

I can't even begin to imagine what the two people who managed to survive the attack must be going through. It was really haunting seeing those photos of the victims from not long before the murders. And the family and friends talking about how the news slowly trickled out that they were all dead was heartbreaking, too. What a horrible way to hear that kind of news. 

And yeah, I liked the officer making it specifically clear who they did NOT consider a suspect in that one press conference. He was very pointedly speaking to all the amrchair sleuths out there with that. I mean, yeah, we all theorize here and whatnot about various true crime cases, too, I've come up with my own ideas of what I think happened or who I think could've done this or that crime or whatever...

...but I also know those are my theories, not official facts, and I keep that discussion restricted solely to these kinds of boards and nowhere else. I don't feel the need to make viral videos that have me showing off and playing detective, and I sure as hell don't track down the social media of the people of the town where the crime happened and pester them with my theories, either. And I couldn't even imagine saying cruel, nasty things to the loved ones of those involved in the crime, either. There's a reason these investigators have their jobs and the rest of us don't, and it's because they were actually trained how to do this stuff, and went to school for this stuff. These Tik Tok/social media sleuths need to quit trying to put themselves on the same level as people who actually do this for a living, and also desperately need to learn the concept of boundaries. 

[eel21788]

10 hours ago, PsychoKlown said:

Off topic slightly...years ago when asked to children what did they want to be when they grew up the top three answers were doctor, nurse, soldier.  Today when asked the same question grammar school children responded overwhelmingly with Influencer (?), football player, and actor.

Teenagers are really big on "crime scene investigator" as their desired profession. I don't want to burst their bubbles and tell them that is nothing like it is shown on TV.

[UsernameFatigue]

I did end up watching both the 20/20 episode and the Dateline one as I was interested to see what info one might have that the other might not. I also watched the 48 hrs episode last weekend. I did find it interesting that each had a combination of parents and friends of the victims but not all the same in each.

Surprising to me, as I often find Dateline leaves things out, was that Dateline said (and confirmed by Kaylee's parents) that Kaylee did not even live in the house any longer. She had recently moved out, but had returned to Moscow that weekend as she wanted to show Madison a car she just purchased, and take part in the parties that were happening that weekend. 20/20 OTOH stated that Kaylee lived in the house, her bedroom was on the same floor as Madison's and her dog was in her bedroom at the time of the murders. 

Another thing Dateline said which I don't remember 20/20 saying was that the suspect's phone showed he had been driving in the area of the house where the murders took place as far back as August 2022. And even creepier, he was close enough different times to access the wifi from the house. Both shows said that Kaylee thought she was being stalked. 

Like others, I don't understand why the roommate who saw the killer when he was leaving the house didn't call the police. Neither show was able to confirm even who it was who called 911, but that was 8 hours later. Maybe the roommate didn't have her cell with her when she locked herself in her room, but you would think that at some point a call would be made, much sooner than 8 hrs later? Was it even the roommate who called 911?  Though I am sure the roommate is going through hell and survivor's guilt over seeing the killer but still being alive to tell her story to police. 

Edited January 15, 2023 by UsernameFatigue