S01.E10: The Hook

[shantown]

Quote

Charlie faces her greatest challenge yet when she is caught in the crossfire of a deadly power play that puts her in the sights of two ruthless crime syndicates and the FBI.

Streaming on Peacock starting March 9

[shapeshifter]

As tight of a well-constructed season finale as there is
. . . except for requiring that we remember the names of characters not seen by us since episode 1, which may have only aired 2 months ago, but there were a lot of guest cast members, and this is not the only show I watch with a lot of cast members, and I am terrible with names of people, animals, places, etc., so I paused to look them up.

So is Cliff going to wear an eye patch next season? Or a glass eye like Peter Faulk/Columbo? 
There's some poetic justice with Cliff getting taken out by a dick to the eye, but I'm not sure quite what it is.

I appreciated that they didn't spell out Cliff's avoiding Charlie's superpower abilities.

 

One more thing:
Am I the only one who thought Charlie should have turned her flowered dress inside out as soon as she heard they were looking for her? 
And if she got sneakers at her sister's, why not different clothes? 

Although: The short tight synthetic dress did work well as a swimsuit for her Chekhovian swim. I swim in a rash guard that fits about the same.

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by shapeshifter

[PurpleTentacle]

Frost Sr. changing his mind this drastically was jarring and should have been explored better. Sure, when he made that call in the first episode he had just learned his son had died and was angry and sure he had a year to calm down, but we should have seen some of that in flashbacks. Maybe him learning about her life on the road, what she had done and smiling. Rediscovering the fondness he had for her, etc.

"This is a talisman, it will lead you out of this place." - Loved it. Especially loved how it worked, showing up on the finger as needed, helping out in specific situations. Although I question how something out of silicone could fuck up Cliff's eye that much.

Would Cliff really have rolled on the head of a mafia family? He seems like the type who'd know better than that. He must have gotten a super sweet deal with no jail time and a sweet spot in witness protection. Otherwise there is no way he'd consider talking. Leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth, that he'll get away with multiple murders. But I guess you can't have everything.

Charlie proclaiming that she is good at life on the highway, after she had been murdered like twice last episode (those were clearly fatal, she's just immortal, evidently), seems a bit weird. Maybe those episodes really were supposed to run in a different order and they regiggered something with the hospital and transition into this episode. But I guess we have to set up for season 2 and explain why she isn't asking for witness protection from her FBI-buddy. I'm not complaining too much. Looking foreward to another season.

[Captain Carrot]

Loved the episode, but was a little frustrated every time Beatrix got on the phone.

I know that voice.

Who is that?

Is that Rhea Perlman. It almost sounds like her.

It was Rhea!. So that's two (unrelated) Perlman's as the mystery voice. Are there any other Perlman's in Hollywood with recognizable voices.😀

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt19636674/?ref_=tt_eps_rec

[Snazzy Daisy]

From Ron Perlman to Rhea Perlman...

Here we go again! 😘

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by SnazzyDaisy

[anniebird]

I thought it was very odd that Charlie, smart as she is, didn't immediately suspect Cliff of firing the gun that killed Frost Sr. - I kept waiting for the reveal that she did know and had manipulated Cliff so she could steal his boat.

[AnimeMania]

(Season Finale)

Benjamin Bratt as Cliff Legrand
Ron Perlman as Sterling Frost Sr.
Simon Helberg as Luca
Clea DuVall as Emily Cale
Rhea Perlman as Beatrix Hasp
Jack O'Hara as J. Michaels
Jamie Pohs as Bachelorette
Bryan Riley-Velez as Lev Riley, Cadillac Cowboy
Scott Vogel as Roadie
Donna Winfield as Janelle
Elijah George as Atlantic City PD

Edited March 9, 2023 by AnimeMania

[Snorfbat]

Something love about this show: FBI AGENT LUCA IS TERRIBLE AT HIS JOB!

Agent Luca can't do a thing without Charlie, which means that Charlie absolutely can't count on him. That's why she can't ever take him up on a job offer or otherwise trust him to have her back. He's completely incapable of keeping her safe.

[Chaos Theory]

Is it weird that this might have been the weakest episode of the season?  Mostly a set up for the new bad guy that Charlie is running from.    It would get old if Charlie ran from the same guy forever.  Making it get increasing worse as each season is a good way to up the stakes.

Agent Luca is the inept FBI agent who keeps going up the success ladder because Charlie hands him baddies on a silver platter.  

[krankydoodle]

I'm bummed that was the last of Ron Perlman on the show.

2 hours ago, anniebird said:

I thought it was very odd that Charlie, smart as she is, didn't immediately suspect Cliff of firing the gun that killed Frost Sr. - I kept waiting for the reveal that she did know and had manipulated Cliff so she could steal his boat.

That was also disappointing. I thought for sure she was playing him.

The confrontation with Clea DuVall was fantastic, though. It was kind of devastating, especially how she acknowledged that Charlie is lovable and good-hearted but still ultimately rejected her. I'm looking forward to finding out what caused their rift.

I don't love that the arc for next season is kicked off by another person who contorts a situation to blame Charlie for the consequences, but I do really like the show and am glad it's coming back.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, anniebird said:

I thought it was very odd that Charlie, smart as she is, didn't immediately suspect Cliff of firing the gun that killed Frost Sr. - I kept waiting for the reveal that she did know and had manipulated Cliff so she could steal his boat.

Yes.
The whole gun in the car scene seemed a bit shoe-horned in too. Maybe this will come up again in a flashback next season, and hopefully make more sense? 

 

4 hours ago, Captain Carrot said:

I know that voice.
Who is that?
Is that Rhea Perlman.

Does Rhea Perlman always sound like Natasha Lyonne? 
Now I'm waiting for a reveal that Charlie is the daughter of Beatrix Hasp, perhaps dropped off as a foundling at birth.
 

 

8 minutes ago, krankydoodle said:

The confrontation with Clea DuVall was fantastic, though. It was kind of devastating, especially how she acknowledged that Charlie is lovable and good-hearted but still ultimately rejected her. I'm looking forward to finding out what caused their rift.

It sounded to me like maybe Charlie had revealed that her sister was "bullshitting"/lying at a moment that ruined her sister's life.
 

 

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

Agent Luca is the inept FBI agent who keeps going up the success ladder because Charlie hands him baddies on a silver platter.

Yeah, but I still want to see more of Agent Luca. He's the Maxwell Smart of the piece.
Plus, Simon Helberg for the win, in my book.
He's the mostly harmless, amusing anti-hero.
 

 

11 minutes ago, krankydoodle said:

I'm bummed that was the last of Ron Perlman on the show.

We'll always have Paris flashbacks.

[Ms Blue Jay]

5 hours ago, Captain Carrot said:

Loved the episode, but was a little frustrated every time Beatrix got on the phone.

I know that voice.

Who is that?

Is that Rhea Perlman. It almost sounds like her.

It was Rhea!. So that's two (unrelated) Perlman's as the mystery voice. Are there any other Perlman's in Hollywood with recognizable voices.😀

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt19636674/?ref_=tt_eps_rec

LOL it's so weird how Rhea and Ron Perlman have almost the exact same name.

2 hours ago, anniebird said:

I thought it was very odd that Charlie, smart as she is, didn't immediately suspect Cliff of firing the gun that killed Frost Sr. - I kept waiting for the reveal that she did know and had manipulated Cliff so she could steal his boat.

I agree that it is frustrating, but she plays the exact role every single episode.  She never ever suspects the person who is super suspicious and instead tells them everything she's thinking.  It's so aggravating but unfortunately an immovable mark of the show.

[anniebird]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

LOL it's so weird how Rhea and Ron Perlman have almost the exact same name.

I agree that it is frustrating, but she plays the exact role every single episode.  She never ever suspects the person who is super suspicious and instead tells them everything she's thinking.  It's so aggravating but unfortunately an immovable mark of the show.

But this time he was the only other person in the room when someone got killed - why wouldn't she immediately suspect him? 

[RobertDeSneero]

5 hours ago, anniebird said:

I thought it was very odd that Charlie, smart as she is, didn't immediately suspect Cliff of firing the gun that killed Frost Sr.

I feel like they touched on that.  Cliff was such a loyal follower that everyone, including Charlie, assumed that he loved the old man.

She befriended a lot of people along the way because she's a trusting soul who wants to see the best in those she meets, especially those who don't lie to her, as I assume Cliff was careful to avoid doing because he knows her ability.

[Ohiopirate02]

How many takes did it take for Ben to recite that Blues Traveler song?

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, anniebird said:

But this time he was the only other person in the room when someone got killed - why wouldn't she immediately suspect him? 

Wasn't it a large casino floor?  Not a tiny room?  I didn't know it was established that it was empty.  What about employees, servers, etc.?

[Cranberry]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

The whole gun in the car scene seemed a bit shoe-horned in too. Maybe this will come up again in a flashback next season, and hopefully make more sense? 

He had to get her fingerprints on the gun, and he knew she wouldn't actually shoot him, so he pulled that little stunt in the car as a combination fingerprint collection and power play.

He stuck that gun in his holster and put an identical gun in the gift box.

When Charlie was pointing the identical gun at the old man, Cliff shot him twice with the gun from the car.

Charlie dropped the identical gun and Cliff swapped them out, putting the gift gun in his holster and laying the (smoking) car gun on the table.

Charlie's fingerprints were on both guns, but that was the only way Cliff could get her fingerprints on the one that was actually fired.

[shapeshifter]

8 minutes ago, Cranberry said:

He had to get her fingerprints on the gun, and he knew she wouldn't actually shoot him, so he pulled that little stunt in the car as a combination fingerprint collection and power play.

He stuck that gun in his holster and put an identical gun in the gift box.

When Charlie was pointing the identical gun at the old man, Cliff shot him twice with the gun from the car.

Charlie dropped the identical gun and Cliff swapped them out, putting the gift gun in his holster and laying the (smoking) car gun on the table.

Charlie's fingerprints were on both guns, but that was the only way Cliff could get her fingerprints on the one that was actually fired.

Excellent description of how Cliff framed Charlie while offing his boss. 
But I still found the car power-play with the gun to be a narratively inelegant trick to get Charlie's prints on the gun, but maybe that's just me? 
I also thought it odd that holding a duplicate of the gun that had made her cry would not have triggered that memory and, IDK, maybe it did, but then shouldn't she have put it together before reaching out to Cliff after she was framed?? 

[paigow]

The downside of removing Cliff is no more Burn Notice clips...

[kay1864]

1 hour ago, Cranberry said:

He had to get her fingerprints on the gun, and he knew she wouldn't actually shoot him

Plus it might not have been loaded.

[merylinkid]

Benjamin Bratt can recite song lyrics/poetry to me any old time.

 

That is all

Edited March 10, 2023 by merylinkid

[PrincessPurrsALot]

21 minutes ago, kay1864 said:

Plus it might not have been loaded.

Since it was a revolver, we could see at least one bullet in the gun in the angle that was shown.  Charlie would be able to tell if it was loaded.  Not sure if the one in the gift box at the casino was loaded. 

[justmehere]

So, maybe this is nitpicky - or it's just lazy writing -  but "ruinous" is a pretty specific and not necessarily common word to choose. Yet Charlie's sister and Beatrix Hasp both used it pretty deliberately. Maybe it's nothing, but it stood out to me.

Similarly - although with small differences - in their threats against Charlie, both Sterling Sr. and Ms. Hasp both said there wasn't "a corner of this country [small/deep] enough" for her to hide. More lazy writing? Or is that supposedly common mob-speak? It stood out again, especially since Sterling said it at the top of the episode, and Hasp said it at the end. 

Anyway -  I enjoyed the series, Natasha Lyonne, and all the great guest stars. Looking forward to season 2.

[anniebird]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Wasn't it a large casino floor?  Not a tiny room?  I didn't know it was established that it was empty.  What about employees, servers, etc.?

I thought it was his office but I've only watched the episode once. If it was the casino floor, that would make it a whole lot more credible.

[Ms Blue Jay]

12 minutes ago, anniebird said:

I thought it was his office but I've only watched the episode once. If it was the casino floor, that would make it a whole lot more credible.

Also as soon as the shot rang out, there was pandemonium and Ben Bratt's character was yelling for people to "get Charlie" and "She killed him".  Who would he be yelling to if the room was empty?

[HelloooKitty]

It was an empty section of a casino floor. And not Sr.‘s casino, it was one owned by Barbara. 

from what sister Clea said, I felt like Charlie’s BS detector revealed something about their father that had a profound effect on his and their lives. Possibly at an early age, at least prior to adulthood. 
 

I know Ron is a large man, but that cell phone looked tiny in his hand. I wonder if he EVER wanted to hurt Charlie? I can’t remember if his instructions were anything other than find her. 
 

I hope Ben gets a cool eyepatch. 
 

finally, I’ve had The Hook stuck in my head since this morning. 

[susannot]

Excellent many-layered episode.  Sets up Season 2 very well.  Agree that Benjamin Bratt can recite that song to me anytime.  Best acting I have seen from him in any show.

[possibilities]

Sterling did say he was going to hurt her. He said she'd be grateful to be dead when he was done with her.

I think this is the only episode where Charlie didn't have her lie detector go off.

[paigow]

Charlie knew that the dress was already part of her APB description... Her sister must really hate her if swapping shoes is the only wardrobe change provided...

[merylinkid]

7 hours ago, possibilities said:

Sterling did say he was going to hurt her. He said she'd be grateful to be dead when he was done with her.

I think this is the only episode where Charlie didn't have her lie detector go off.

Nah, he needed her more than he wanted her hurt.   Especially when he found out his son had betrayed him.   He was telling the truth.  

Notice that Cliff never said anything when Charlie kept saying "You loved the Old Man" or "You were loyal to him."  He was very careful to not give himself away.   

I was really hoping it would end with Charlie not having to run anymore but still wanting to travel around.   Because as her sister pointed out, she helps people.   She really does and I think she likes it.

But WHY do they keep saying "there's no place small enough."   You are on the run you go somewhere you don't stand out.   A big city.   Good luck finding Charlie in NYC with all the millions of people.   She keeps going to small towns where anyone looking for her just has to say "short blonde lady who can tell if you are lying?"   Strangers/new people stand out in small towns.   In NYC or LA, she's just another face in the crowd.   More jobs that pay you under the table too.    But yeah if she didn't go from small town to small town solving murders there would be no show.

[paigow]

21 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

But WHY do they keep saying "there's no place small enough."   You are on the run you go somewhere you don't stand out.   A big city.   Good luck finding Charlie in NYC with all the millions of people.  

NYC Parking would cost more than anything earned at sub minimum wage jobs... 

[Zaffy]

Not a big fan of this finale.
I did enjoy the season a lot, but did we have to do this all over again?
Are we gonna spend next season again with Charlie on the run?
I would much prefer if she was driving around America or even settle in a town solving crimes etc.
 

[shapeshifter]

40 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

But WHY do they keep saying "there's no place small enough."   You are on the run you go somewhere you don't stand out.   A big city.   Good luck finding Charlie in NYC with all the millions of people.  

16 minutes ago, paigow said:

NYC Parking would cost more than anything earned at sub minimum wage jobs... 

Long Term Parking at Chicago's O'Hare Airport would work for some of the time.❄️⛱️
But, yeah, NYC weather's a bit more conducive to living in ones car. 

 

[Black Knight]

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

I think this is the only episode where Charlie didn't have her lie detector go off.

No, she did, at her sister's final line about how they were doing just fine. But she knew it would really set her sister off if she said "bullshit," so she settled for a raising of the eyebrows.

It was thrilling to see Natasha Lyonne and Clea DuVall acting together again. Of course the writers made their characters sisters to forestall any urging from fans to pair them romantically a second time, heh. But it was such a nice gesture to But I'm a Cheerleader fans for Lyonne to save DuVall for the season finale, and to cast her in a role where she can be brought back periodically.

Can't wait for S2!

[Chaos Theory]

On 3/9/2023 at 4:33 PM, anniebird said:

But this time he was the only other person in the room when someone got killed - why wouldn't she immediately suspect him? 

Charlie isn’t a detective.   Plus she had no real reason to suspect him other than he was in the room.  By that same logic she should be the murderer as well.    I forget if we know what his agenda is by this point but there is no reason why Charlie should would or could know how much he hated his boss and had switched sides and was actively framing her.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Chaos Theory

[Paloma]

1 hour ago, Zaffy said:

Not a big fan of this finale.
I did enjoy the season a lot, but did we have to do this all over again?
Are we gonna spend next season again with Charlie on the run?
I would much prefer if she was driving around America or even settle in a town solving crimes etc.

As much as I love this show, this episode was a bit of a letdown for me also, even though I knew they had to set things up for the next season. I agree with your preference for the direction they could go, rather than yet another season of being pursued and almost being caught each episode. There were also some big things and a couple of smaller things that bugged me:

Charlie's car is so easily identifiable that the mob, especially if they have connections to corrupt cops, should be able to find her even without ATM transactions. I know it's part of her character, but it really doesn't make sense that she wouldn't trade it in or at least have it painted another color and switch license plates (though she might have to steal a plate to do that). 

Presumably Sterling Sr. never had a chance to give her the $500K, and I think her wallet was in the car when Mortimer crashed in the last episode (since that's why they identified Mortimer as Charlie). So between being rescued from the hidey-hole last episode and spending the last 2 months in the hospital before being picked up by Cliff, where did she get any money for gas, food, or other basic expenses?

When she dove off the boat, she presumably swam to the distant shore and whatever town was there (though looking at a map of Atlantic City, I can't figure out what that would be). The next time we see her, she is wearing normal clothes (no more sequined dress) and meeting the FBI guy in the diner. How much time went by between the swim and the diner, and where did she get the clothes?

19 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Does Rhea Perlman always sound like Natasha Lyonne? 
Now I'm waiting for a reveal that Charlie is the daughter of Beatrix Hasp, perhaps dropped off as a foundling at birth.

The secret daughter reveal seems pretty unlikely, but my husband and I thought at first that Natasha was the voice of Beatrix Hasp. It is weird that their voices are so similar.

I know most people here liked the reciting of the Blues Traveler lyrics, but it felt unnatural to me because I don't know that song (though Run-Around is one of my favorite songs ever) and was trying to figure out what he was saying and why. So it did not have whatever the intended effect was on me or my husband. 

Similarly, the interaction between Charlie and her previously unknown sister (who just happened to live near the casino all the way across the country from where the story started in Episode 1) felt unnatural, especially with the "ruinous" wording. It also didn't help that they looked nothing alike, though I know that lots of siblings do not. If they revisit the relationship next season, I hope the reason for the estrangement/anger becomes clearer.

Despite being bugged by these things, I am really looking forward to Season 2. 

[akg]

14 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Excellent description of how Cliff framed Charlie while offing his boss.

Since Cliff had duplicate guns, it was pretty stupid of him to shoot Ron Perlman with the one he'd used for the murders that started all of this (that is the one he used, right?). The recording of his meeting with Adrien Brody tied him to Natalie's murder, the gun then tied him to Ron Perlman's. 

Peacock started playing the first episode of Columbo after the credits of this and it starts with a guy taking a gun that looks just like Cliff's out of his glove box. The volume jumped when the show changed though and I couldn't reach that remote without disturbing the cat so I didn't end up watching to see if there were any more similarities.

14 hours ago, paigow said:

The downside of removing Cliff is no more Burn Notice clips...

Those made me really happy. And annoyed because now I want to rewatch.

I agree with the many people here that the dress thing was very frustrating. Especially after the visit to her sister. Charlie should have ditched it at the first opportunity and I wish they'd explained why she didn't.

[kwnyc]

On 3/9/2023 at 9:24 AM, PurpleTentacle said:

Although I question how something out of silicone could fuck up Cliff's eye that much.

It had a battery and light in it...that might have been enough to penetrate Cliff's eye.

Also, Luca is not an outstanding agent, but he hasn't lied to Charlie (except about being the guy's nephew at the assisted living home) and he acknowledges he owes her. It was smart of him to find that email she sent and bring down the guy who was exploiting children (and I liked that the crime that started the whole ball rolling was solved at the end of the season).

He also brought Charlie's indestructible car back. I expect we'll see him next season.

[anniebird]

9 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Also as soon as the shot rang out, there was pandemonium and Ben Bratt's character was yelling for people to "get Charlie" and "She killed him".  Who would he be yelling to if the room was empty?

I just rewatched the scene and now I see it was the casino floor and not his office - that changes my opinion totally. Thanks to everyone who straightened this out for me.

 

[Ohiopirate02]

27 minutes ago, akg said:

Since Cliff had duplicate guns, it was pretty stupid of him to shoot Ron Perlman with the one he'd used for the murders that started all of this (that is the one he used, right?). The recording of his meeting with Adrien Brody tied him to Natalie's murder, the gun then tied him to Ron Perlman's. .

Cliff left the gun at the crime scene back in episode one.  He wiped his prints and left it in the hand of the boyfriend/husband to frame him in a murder-suicide.  That particular gun was the property of the boyfriend/husband that Cliff took from him when the boyfriend/husband was escorted off the premises.  The gun from this episode is another firearm Cliff possessed.

[akg]

11 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Cliff left the gun at the crime scene back in episode one.  He wiped his prints and left it in the hand of the boyfriend/husband to frame him in a murder-suicide.  That particular gun was the property of the boyfriend/husband that Cliff took from him when the boyfriend/husband was escorted off the premises.  The gun from this episode is another firearm Cliff possessed.

Thank you! That raises my opinion on Cliff's intelligence back up. Although now I'm wondering about Charlie. She was around long enough after Natalie and her husband's murders to know that about the gun. Cliff taking it was one of her big "aha" moments.

[tljgator]

23 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

How many takes did it take for Ben to recite that Blues Traveler song?

Anybody else have the sinking realization that you've been singing the wrong words to A LOT of that song for a few decades now?

[Ohiopirate02]

19 minutes ago, tljgator said:

Anybody else have the sinking realization that you've been singing the wrong words to A LOT of that song for a few decades now?

I think I had that album and pored over the lyrics while listening.  Or there was a VH1 Pop Up Video that explained the lyrics. 

[paigow]

17 hours ago, possibilities said:

Sterling did say he was going to hurt her. He said she'd be grateful to be dead when he was done with her.

That was true ... in the flashback... but dealing with Carla Beatrix has changed his mind...

[possibilities]

18 hours ago, possibilities said:

Sterling did say he was going to hurt her. He said she'd be grateful to be dead when he was done with her.

I think this is the only episode where Charlie didn't have her lie detector go off.

 

10 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Nah, he needed her more than he wanted her hurt.   Especially when he found out his son had betrayed him.   He was telling the truth.  

I should have formatted my posting more clearly. I knew Sterling was telling the truth (he'd changed his mind about hurting her) but I didn't catch anyone lying to Charlie in the episode and the plot didn't turn on her catching someone telling a lie.

9 hours ago, Black Knight said:

No, she did, at her sister's final line about how they were doing just fine. But she knew it would really set her sister off if she said "bullshit," so she settled for a raising of the eyebrows.

I missed that! I must have looked away for a second.

[justmehere]

7 hours ago, Paloma said:

Similarly, the interaction between Charlie and her previously unknown sister (who just happened to live near the casino all the way across the country from where the story started in Episode 1) felt unnatural, especially with the "ruinous" wording.

The more I think about it, the more out of place it feels to have two unconnected characters using the same uncommon term in a detective-ish show like this. Taking thoughts to the speculation thread.

Also - I got the impression that where the sister, Em (Emily), lives is where they grew up; their dad's boat is nearby, too. If so, maybe familiarity with casinos led Charlie to Vegas. Just a thought.

[Haleth]

On 3/9/2023 at 9:45 AM, Captain Carrot said:

I know that voice.

Who is that?

Yeah, I had to look up who that voice was during the show because it was making me crazy.  Rhea Perlman!

It wasn't my favorite episode but it was fun seeing Agent Luca again.  And it's always a pleasure to watch Clea Duvall.

On 3/10/2023 at 12:00 AM, possibilities said:

I think this is the only episode where Charlie didn't have her lie detector go off.

Cliff was so careful about what he said.  He never said anything that wasn't true.

On 3/9/2023 at 9:04 PM, justmehere said:

So, maybe this is nitpicky - or it's just lazy writing -  but "ruinous" is a pretty specific and not necessarily common word to choose. Yet Charlie's sister and Beatrix Hasp both used it pretty deliberately. Maybe it's nothing, but it stood out to me.

Yes!  Beatrix used the same word Charlie's sister did - ruinous.  I was afraid that meant something.  A threat?  A conspiracy?

[shapeshifter]

On 3/9/2023 at 9:04 PM, justmehere said:

So, maybe this is nitpicky - or it's just lazy writing -  but "ruinous" is a pretty specific and not necessarily common word to choose. Yet Charlie's sister and Beatrix Hasp both used it pretty deliberately. Maybe it's nothing, but it stood out to me.

3 hours ago, Haleth said:

Yes!  Beatrix used the same word Charlie's sister did - ruinous.  I was afraid that meant something.  A threat?  A conspiracy?

Maybe the uttering by both Beatrix and Em of the rather apt descriptor of "ruinous" for Charlie and her Lie Detecting  does signify Beatrix and Em being in cahoots.
Or maybe it's just identifying them as 2 people who will be be revealed next season to be ruined by Charlie?

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by shapeshifter

[tljgator]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Maybe the uttering by both Beatrix and Em of the rather apt descriptor of "ruinous" for Charlie and her Lie Detecting  does signify Beatrix and Em being in cahoots.
Or maybe it's just identifying them as 2 people who will be be revealed next season to be ruined by Charlie?

I feel fairly certain it HAS to matter. It's not only an uncommon word, but an uncommon turn of phrase in normal conversation. While I might expect her sister to say something like, "you ruin everything," I would not expect her to say she's "ruinous," much less for someone else to use the same word again. I noticed it on first viewing, and was glad to see others did as well when I came here to catch up.

This is the kind of show that routinely revisits small things that turn out to matter...I'm putting a pin in this one for next season.

[Milburn Stone]

On 3/9/2023 at 8:04 PM, justmehere said:

So, maybe this is nitpicky - or it's just lazy writing -  but "ruinous" is a pretty specific and not necessarily common word to choose. Yet Charlie's sister and Beatrix Hasp both used it pretty deliberately. Maybe it's nothing, but it stood out to me.

IMO, it's not lazy writing, it's fully intentional good writing. "Ruinous" has more power to hurt than "you ruin everything." "Ruinous" is an attempt to define Charlie, not just her actions. And the repetition doubles down on the hurt, doubles down on the self-doubt Charlie feels, the wondering "could it be true?" The second mention is meant to remind us (and Charlie) of the first. 

I liked Simon Helberg before Big Bang, and I've liked him after Big Bang. I just never liked him in Big Bang. (Waste of a good comic actor on a very formulaic sitcommy sitcom--although I'm sure he didn't mind the tens of millions of dollars.) I've been happy to see him this season and would welcome him back.