S03.E03: Part Three - Seventeen Seconds

[norcalgal]

2 hours ago, readster said:

However, you still have to figure out how you can get things in like Vadic fitting into all of this. She goes as a Bounty to hunter but to have a Changling spy on a SPECIFIC ship going after ONE person in paticular that many in secret knew was Picard's son. There is a piece of the puzzle missing here. Someone who had to put this all together, get the subspace equipment to others, SPECIFICALLY Target not only Picard but the entire former crew of the Enterprise D-E. Then have it where even the Changlings were: "We will destroy Worlds and have our revenge!" There is some classic revenge scheme going on here and USING others to do it all and they all get something out of it. 

So far, this season is aaaaaaallllllll about the feels (nostalgia). Logic and consistent characterization be damned. 
I suppose Vadic is supposed to be hammy and campy like her father was in his portrayal as Gen. Chang.

[greekmom]

22 minutes ago, starri said:

I’m a child psychiatrist, and the area I work in has a very high percentage of children of immigrants from all over the world.  Almost without exception, the kids speak English with standard mid-Atlantic accents even if they’re speaking another language at home.

exactly. My parents speak English with a heavy accent. I have your standard Southern Ontario accent.

[paigow]

On 3/3/2023 at 12:08 PM, ChitChat said:

Beverly robbed Picard of the chance to be a father....

and robbed Jack 2.0 of the chance to become a wine snob like Frasier / Niles Crane

[marinw]

Beverly bringing up Jack’s accent felt like a bit of a fourth wall.

[cambridgeguy]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

and robbed Jack 2.0 of the chance to become a wine snob like Frasier / Niles Crane

Plus he might be some heathen who prefers coffee to tea!

[Cattoy]

Sorry for the lack of multiquote, but I don't have time to find all the posts I wanted to reply to.

As to why the previewers loved this so much, I think nostalgia plays a part in it. Also, the cast still has amazing chemistry with each other. If I turn off the logical part of my brain, it is fun to see these great characters interacting with one another! I do enjoy that aspect of the show, but I really, really wish the writing had been better.

There's also the fact that this is brilliant compared to the previous seasons of Picard. So is watching paint dry, so it's not the greatest compliment in the world, but for people hungering for some decent Star Trek, this is something.

Changelings - I'm not stoked, but I'm not complaining at this point. Let's see what they do with it. The Dominion War has never really been addressed, so we don't know what lingering issues remain. Something that massive would have repercussions on both sides. I can buy a split in the Great Link, but what does that do their genetically engineered species? The Vorta and Jem Hadar believed the Founders were gods. Now their gods are arguing amongst themselves. Did the Jem Hadar commit mass suicide, as they were expected to do when they failed? Did they side with the faction that wants to keep fighting?

But this raises a bigger question - what's the interest in Picard or his son? Picard was basically absent during the Dominion War. A group wanting revenge on Sisko, Bajor, Adm. Ross, Klingons, etc, sure. But why one random captain who spent the war patrolling the edges of Federation space?

I hope this isn't the only callback to DS9. It has always been my favorite ST, and I want to know what the rest of the crew is up to. I want to see a cameo, or some Easter eggs beyond Odo.

Worf! I never liked the Klingons that much during TNG, and I wasn't initially happy when Worf joined DS9. Ezri pretty much summed up my feelings about Klingon honor and hypocrisy. But I grew to love his character, and he's the saving grace of this show so far. I mean I'm even eager to see what he and Raffi do next, and I despise her character!

Not that big of a fan of the flashback to NewDad!Riker and Picard. If you're going to use deaging software, allocate the budget to do it well. Also, it didn't add to the episode beyond the title. Not a fan of bitchy Deanna, so I hope she gets some better treatment in future episodes.

[ML89]

3 hours ago, paigow said:

and robbed Jack 2.0 of the chance to become a wine snob like Frasier / Niles Crane

I think I’d rather watch that instead of cat and mouse in a nebula. Picard in a cut throat competition for the best wine against Vedic…hmm…

Last week, I was so tired of Raffi and now this week, her storyline is so much better - thank you, Worf. 
 

Dear Titan Doctor, even I knew Shaw had internal bleeding after Beverly’s test and my medical degree is watching years of Medical TV. Amazingly, Beverly was near death last week and Girl Boss this week?

So Picard told Beverly about his childhood and she didn’t suggest, I don’t know, therapy? So Beverly doesn’t want him to be known as Picard’s son so he’ll be safe while dragging him around the Galaxy in her Doctors Without Borders ship? 
 

Did someone from 1966 write that scene between Riker and Picard about fatherhood with the Troi cameo?

Anyone else think when Crusher said “Dominion War” to Seven that Seven was thinking “who in the what now?” Voyager was gone during all that.  

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by ML89

[Artsda]

Wow that was some character assassination and daytime soap road they took Beverly down. No way Wesley would approve so will they assassinate him too?

So Will and Troi's son died and that changed him? Makes the issues possibly at home make more sense.

 

[MissLucas]

Last season Riker seemed to be at peace with the death of his son (or at least as much at peace as you can be with such a tragic loss). When he mentioned to Picard that there was trouble at home my first thought was 'Kestra has hit puberty!'

Edited March 5, 2023 by MissLucas

[dovegrey]

2 hours ago, Cattoy said:

Not that big of a fan of the flashback to NewDad!Riker and Picard. If you're going to use deaging software, allocate the budget to do it well. Also, it didn't add to the episode beyond the title.

I think it was supposed to connect to Picard taking the turbolift to sickbay after Jack was attacked by the Changeling. I think we were supposed to see that, just like with Riker's story of becoming a dad, it was the moment Picard emotionally became a father to Jack.

47 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Last season Riker seemed to be at peace with the death of his son (or at least at peace as you can be with such a tragic loss).

Things like this and Suddenly A Commander Seven (and Surprise Son Jack) really, really make me wish Team Picard had changed the timeline last season and were left trying to navigate the differences while getting on with their lives. If Trek wants to be dark, there it is.

Anyway...

With the general discussion of the actual Big Bad for this season - as cool as it would be to tie all the way into DS9 (though I fear that would be too big of a bite for these writers), I’m hoping it connects with at least one of the stories or enemies from Picard seasons 1 or 2. That being said, the Borg have been a consistent presence across both seasons, and Jack’s “connect the branches” hallucination with Seven reminded me of the Borg transwarp hub diagram from Voyager’s “Endgame.” That transwarp hub was also located in the middle of a nebula.

Which gets me thinking... Is Jack special not because he's a Picard but because he’s the child of an xB? (Which, IIRC, is pretty rare, if not a first time thing. I haven't really rewatched Old Trek for a while, though.)

[MissLucas]

3 minutes ago, dovegrey said:

Which gets me thinking... Is Jack special not because he's a Picard but because he’s the child of an xB? (Which, IIRC, is pretty rare, if not a first time thing. I haven't really rewatched Old Trek for a while, though.)

That could explain his vision of Seven which reminded me more of Seven as Queen from last season. It would be an interesting twist but so far this show has always been foremost about Picard so I'm not holding my breath 🤷‍♂️

[Chicago Redshirt]

7 hours ago, ML89 said:

Anyone else think when Crusher said “Dominion War” to Seven that Seven was thinking “who in the what now?” Voyager was gone during all that.  

Voyager was gone, but it presumably got updates about there having been a huge war that nearly got lost by the Alpha Quadrant powers combined. I remember there was a scene where there was a reaction from Torres and/or Chakotay that after Caradassia joined the Dominion that they slaughtered all the Maquis. So there was a good chance that Seven would have been at least somewhat familiar with it, and of course, there has been the 20-plus years that she has been back for her to have become familiar with Federation history.

[khiori sakkhet]

23 hours ago, readster said:

However, you still have to figure out how you can get things in like Vadic fitting into all of this. She goes as a Bounty to hunter but to have a Changling spy on a SPECIFIC ship going after ONE person in paticular that many in secret knew was Picard's son. There is a piece of the puzzle missing here. Someone who had to put this all together, get the subspace equipment to others, SPECIFICALLY Target not only Picard but the entire former crew of the Enterprise D-E. Then have it where even the Changlings were: "We will destroy Worlds and have our revenge!" There is some classic revenge scheme going on here and USING others to do it all and they all get something out of it. 

We virtually know nothing about Vadic, yet she seems to know about everyone. She knew Picard was synthetic. She knew Captain Shawn's psychological history. I doubt that kind of information is common knowledge because everyone was at a loss for any quickwit replies. 

That portal weapon would be a lot more useful if it did not work only short range and in times of battle. If the founders want revenge, it's plausible they would want an on-demand portal to transport themselves from the gamma quadrant. The portal weapon was stolen from the Daystrom Institute, right? What else could be stolen that the portal weapon was a distraction? The stolen portal weapon is fairly new, yet shape-shifting impostors or the like are probably from before Bajor's prophets' wormhole was destroyed. The founders did say they implanted little new members of their species throughout the galaxy only for them to come home to the gamma quadrant later. They might have formed a secret organization for their revenge. This implies The Shrike works for the changelings or Vadic is one. It doesn't explain why Vadic would need Jack Crusher to fall in that gravity hole, since she clearly doesn't want him dead,. How exactly were they chased into that specific nebula that Vadic needed to send Jack into the middle of? Is there something Beverly and Jack know that they're not telling the rest of the crew? 

Picard's strategizing capabilities were fine until he told Riker that they should hide, who nicely told Shaw the same. He did not assess Titan's capabilities, did not try maneuvering while shooting, did not specify where to target, did not look for vulnerabilities of the Shrike. Too much away from from Starfleet that he did not know decommissioned starbases, and now Riker throws him out of the bridge for essentially killing them all. How much of it is dementia, because last season everything was OK? How much of it is degradation of his synthetic self? I think they made it clear last season that he was a synth but not immortal.

[greekmom]

23 hours ago, Artsda said:

Wow that was some character assassination and daytime soap road they took Beverly down. No way Wesley would approve so will they assassinate him too?

So Will and Troi's son died and that changed him? Makes the issues possibly at home make more sense.

 

Nope. They were both at peace with the death of Thaddeus the last season when Picard visited them.  According to memory alpha, Thaddeus died in 2396 and Picard season 3 should be in 2402 I think since it's been a year since last season for them? So it's been a few years since Thaddeus' death.

[Chicago Redshirt]

9 hours ago, khiori sakkhet said:

We virtually know nothing about Vadic, yet she seems to know about everyone. She knew Picard was synthetic. She knew Captain Shawn's psychological history. I doubt that kind of information is common knowledge because everyone was at a loss for any quickwit replies. 

The things she knew were not necessarily top secret. We the viewers don't have any way of knowing, but the possibility that the public at large knows that JLP is a synth seems realistic. He's a famous person, issues with synths are a big deal, and it seems that there would have had to be some sort of acknowledgement of his synth-hood. 

As it stands, we can infer that Vadic is in league with the saboteur on the Titan, which means she is either a Changeling, or works for/with them. It seems most likely that the Changeling saboteur fed her info. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 3/5/2023 at 5:04 PM, greekmom said:

Nope. They were both at peace with the death of Thaddeus the last season when Picard visited them.  According to memory alpha, Thaddeus died in 2396 and Picard season 3 should be in 2402 I think since it's been a year since last season for them? So it's been a few years since Thaddeus' death.

I'd say there are different levels of being at peace with a family member's death. Presumably Troi and Riker are relatively well adjusted and have access to better resources than real live people here in the 21st century. But if my own experience and that of others I'm personally familiar with is any guide, grieving for a family member can pop up in weird ways and times. I would think losing a child would be to a sudden disease would be harder than most.

[chaifan]

On 3/4/2023 at 12:48 PM, greekmom said:

(I don't buy the whole "he went to school in London and picked up the accent" explanation).

I've just never really bought that any accents (as we know them) still exist in the Star Trek Universe timeline.  With migration, immigration, people from all over moving about at the pace it's happening now, accents would change over the next few hundred years.  Deanna Troi's ambiguous accent was probably the most believable, because it wasn't supposed to be from any particular place on earth.  Scotty having a relatively heavy Scottish accent, Chekov, Picard, etc., it's all silly to assume any of those accents would still exist.

I was willing to give the show a lot of slack the first two episodes, to see where it was going.  But now? ugh.  This is just bad, and assumes the viewers are just stupid that we'd buy these retcons that make no sense whatsoever.  Even the new Yoga Worf bugs me.  I'm hoping the show takes a turn and redeems itself, but I have very low expectations of not being annoyed at the end of each episode. 

[Affogato]

16 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I'd say there are different levels of being at peace with a family member's death. Presumably Troi and Riker are relatively well adjusted and have access to better resources than real live people here in the 21st century. But if my own experience and that of others I'm personally familiar with is any guide, grieving for a family member can pop up in weird ways and times. I would think losing a child would be to a sudden disease would be harder than most.

It is to the character's (Riker) credit that his response to having old feelings stirred up is to want better for Picard.

15 hours ago, chaifan said:

I've just never really bought that any accents (as we know them) still exist in the Star Trek Universe timeline.  With migration, immigration, people from all over moving about at the pace it's happening now, accents would change over the next few hundred years.  Deanna Troi's ambiguous accent was probably the most believable, because it wasn't supposed to be from any particular place on earth.  Scotty having a relatively heavy Scottish accent, Chekov, Picard, etc., it's all silly to assume any of those accents would still exist.

 

Chekov presumably spoke a slavic language originally. Scotty may have been just determined to have a heavy, Scottish accent. Who knows, Picard may have choosen his to go with this earl grey tea.

[MissLucas]

Maybe it's because I'm not a native speaker but although I notice accents I hardly ever spend time wondering about the why or where in this universe. I mean Narek and Narissa both spoke with British accents and we were never given an explanation🤷‍♀️ 

[rtms77]

On 3/2/2023 at 5:01 PM, dwmarch said:

I like that they are paying more attention to security in this show but they are doing it in a weird way. Is there a guard at every turbolift entrance? Every Jeffries tube? Every ladder? And for Seven being confined to quarters, why a guard at all? Why not just lock the door? And despite all of these random guards the visitors to the Titan still come and go as they please. Shaw said he runs a tight ship but what I think is really happening here is that he has a crew that is good at looking like they are busy while accomplishing very little actual work!

I’m kinda bummed out that Picard or Riker didn’t immediately reinstate 7 of 9, when Shaw transferred command. And how did Shaw do that when Picard took over at the beginning? That didn’t make sense. 
 

Beverly had to have been 70 yrs old by the time she had Jack. And it’s not like they tried to make a go at it, Picard had a love Intrest in at least a couple of the movies. I don’t think they were much of anything by Nemisis . Not to mention Picard had a huge falling out with Starfleet at the beginning of season 1. All he was doing was tending grapes and painting. No sorry her excuses were just very weak.

Edited March 7, 2023 by rtms77

[Ottis]

On 3/2/2023 at 6:31 AM, cambridgeguy said:

But Riker's little hissy fit at the end of the episode felt manufactured, especially the you just killed us all part.  YOU are the captain - if you follow a suggestion you disagree with then that's on you, not the guy who suggested it in the first place

It was terrible writing - especially when you consider that BOTH Picard and Riker had moments before agreed that they could no longer run. They *had* to fight. So why the hissy fit?

I'll tell you why - poor writing by people who are seeking the dramatic moment over any logical sense. "You have killed us all" feels big and emotional. In reality, it was both out of character and illogical given what we just saw. But these writers either don't see that, or don't care.

At the very least, in all the little past scenes with Picard and Riker, show us that they had, in their retirement years, arrived at a basic difference in viewpoint or philosophy. Then that difference could come back on the bridge. But no, we don't even see that.

Meanwhile, I don't know why the show has chosen to give half its airtime to an uninteresting and, face it, unimportant, Raffi and her personal journey and mission. This is not a knock against the actress. She's fine. What her character is doing is sterile and, at times, cliched. Yeah, yeah, fighting a past addiction and relentlessly chasing this lead to atone for something, we will no doubt learn.

It's a shame, because the overall arc is leagues better than season two. They keep failing on the key moments. 

On 3/3/2023 at 2:49 AM, thuganomics85 said:

So, it looks like it's going to be the Changelings who will be the big baddies (for now, at least?) this season.

Or at least they are an important soldier in a bigger cause. The ones we have seen so far seem more like useful fanatics than the brains behind whatever is going on.

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by Ottis

[SnarkShark]

As shiate as some of this is, at least they're apparently aware that Worf is supposed to be one third comedy (early Worf unintentional comedy, later Worf deliberate one-liners). 

On 3/6/2023 at 6:57 PM, chaifan said:

 

I was willing to give the show a lot of slack the first two episodes, to see where it was going.  But now? ugh.  This is just bad, and assumes the viewers are just stupid that we'd buy these retcons that make no sense whatsoever.  Even the new Yoga Worf bugs me.  I'm hoping the show takes a turn and redeems itself, but I have very low expectations of not being annoyed at the end of each episode. 

It's just as bad as the previous seasons.    They keep finding new ways each season to make Picard an asshole. Every time.  And now they made Beverly one too. But Picard?  Still a bigger asshole than the woman who kept his kid from him for decades.  

Worf is... okay.  As I describe in a previous post, at least they still understand he's a joke machine.

Are we supposed to be happy they acknowledged Wesley?  It seems becoming a Galactic power made him as asshole too, since he never uses that power to visit his mother.

[paigow]

On 3/9/2023 at 7:28 PM, Ottis said:

I'll tell you why - poor writing by people who are seeking the dramatic moment over any logical sense. "You have killed us all" feels big and emotional.

This line only works when describing this guy

[Cattoy]

2 hours ago, SnarkShark said:

Are we supposed to be happy they acknowledged Wesley?  It seems becoming a Galactic power made him as asshole too, since he never uses that power to visit his mother.

Yes! He showed up for Troi and Riker's wedding, so he had some idea of what was going on with the old crew. Either he was in touch with his mother and she forwarded an invitation, or he crashed the party. EIther way, he knew what was going on. Which you'd think, since he's some super being that's supposed to be making sure things happen as they're supposed to.

Are we supposed to believe he knows that his mother and half-brother are in mortal danger and is doing nothing about it? Or has he ghosted his mother over the Jack/Picard situation?  Are we supposed to deduce that he's manipulating things behind the scenes so everything turns out okay?

[Affogato]

38 minutes ago, Cattoy said:

Yes! He showed up for Troi and Riker's wedding, so he had some idea of what was going on with the old crew. Either he was in touch with his mother and she forwarded an invitation, or he crashed the party. EIther way, he knew what was going on. Which you'd think, since he's some super being that's supposed to be making sure things happen as they're supposed to.

Are we supposed to believe he knows that his mother and half-brother are in mortal danger and is doing nothing about it? Or has he ghosted his mother over the Jack/Picard situation?  Are we supposed to deduce that he's manipulating things behind the scenes so everything turns out okay?

I assume we are to believe that he is busy doing something else or that he can’t interfere because it is that sort of event that can’t be changed. 

[marinw]

25 minutes ago, Affogato said:

I assume we are to believe that he is busy doing something else or that he can’t interfere because it is that sort of event that can’t be changed. 

The Travellers may have thier own version of the Prime Directive. 

[Prevailing Wind]

4 hours ago, marinw said:

The Travellers may have thier own version of the Prime Directive. 

But Q doesn't. Where the hell is HE?

[marinw]

As of last season, Q is dead or dying. But there are other Q.

Edited March 12, 2023 by marinw

[paigow]

4 minutes ago, marinw said:

As of last season, Q is dead or dyeing. But there are other Q.

Corbin Bernsen is the only other one shown that is still alive... The Q that saved OLD Thaddeus Riker during The Civil War won his Right To Die trial on Voyager

[Joimiaroxeu]

How would Shaw not know the ship couldn't go to warp inside the nebula? It was weird Picard and Riker had to keep schooling him. And in front of his crew too.

Beverly is a bit full of herself too. Between her and Jean-Luc, Jack is like genetically arrogant.

So Beverly was trying to protect her son from the dangerous notoriety of being Picard's son. Unfortunately it turns out he's problematic all on his own.

A Star Trek show is the last place I would've expected to see an anti-choice argument.

Worf looks tasty with the white hair.

Poor Picard, not having a fun time being Number One when Riker won't listen to him.

Beheadings are on Wednesdays. Worf's got jokes.

Ya blew it big time, J-L. Mon Dieu!

[paigow]

14 hours ago, SnarkShark said:

It's just as bad as the previous seasons.    They keep finding new ways each season to make Picard an asshole.

TNG!Cadet!Johnny!Picard was an asshole... but Q proved that any deviation leads to a dead end Junior Science Officer destiny. So OLD Picard being an asshole should not surprise anyone...

[marinw]

Too bad Elnor isn’t around this season. He and Worf would have got on famously.

[paigow]

2 hours ago, marinw said:

Too bad Elnor isn’t around this season. He and Worf would have got on famously.

Elnor: Great.. This old Klingon would be useless in combat.

Worf: Today is a good day to die... for you.

[tv-talk]

On 3/12/2023 at 5:32 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Worf looks tasty with the white hair.

Indeed! Beverley looks fantastic as well.  

[Sandman]

On 3/2/2023 at 6:31 AM, cambridgeguy said:

Picard and Riker disagreeing about tactics is fine, especially since Picard is rustier.  I could even buy Riker wanting Picard off the bridge since he's a lousy XO.  But Riker's little hissy fit at the end of the episode felt manufactured, especially the you just killed us all part. 

I agree; I’m not even the tiniest bit convinced that after twenty-odd years of a professional and personal relationship which has been shown on this very series to encompass not only mutual respect and admiration but love, that all of that gets torched in the midst of a firefight. Yeah, hard no. Unless something is off-gassing from the Titan’s decking that turns people into whiny-ass trolls, the writers need to rip the page out of the show bible where it says: “Hey, here’s a fun way to create conflict: just have everybody lose their damn minds and act completely out of character! It’s easy and fun!”

On 3/2/2023 at 4:02 PM, Stardancer Supreme said:

I did like how she managed to keep the Titan doctor from letting Shaw die. Are the newer doctors solely reliant on scanners and machinery now?

I had the impression what they were going for was (Relatively) Old School Crusher Shows ‘Em How Real Doctorin’ Is Done.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Sandman

[millennium]

On 3/18/2023 at 9:28 PM, Sandman said:

I agree; I’m not even the tiniest bit convinced that after twenty-odd years of a  professional and personal relationship which has been shown on this very series to encompass not only mutual respect and admiration but love, that all of that gets torched in the midst of a firefight. Yeah, hard no. Unless something is off-gassing from the Titan’s decking that turns people into whiny-ass trolls, the writers need to rip the page out of the show bible where it says: “Hey, here’s a fun way to create conflict: just have everybody lose their damn minds and act completely out of character! It’s easy and fun!”

It felt entirely contrived, as there wasn't a single hint of discord or disagreement between them in preceding episodes.   No longstanding, suppressed resentments.   Nothing.    It came out of the blue. 

The twist of the photons coming out of the portal to bite Titan in the ass was something new, at least.

[Francie]

When they titled this episode 17 Seconds, I didn't realize that would also correspond with the length of the entirety of Deanna Troi's screen time in the first seven episodes. 

 

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 3/12/2023 at 3:28 PM, paigow said:

Corbin Bernsen is the only other one shown that is still alive... The Q that saved OLD Thaddeus Riker during The Civil War won his Right To Die trial on Voyager

We don't know anything about whether Corbin Bernsen Q is alive or dead, but one would presume all Q shown should exist unless explicitly told otherwise. That means both DeLancie Q's wife (as played by Susie Plakson (sp?)) and their kid, should still exist as well as the rest of the Continuum.

[Francie]

On a more serious note, the thing that bothered me about the 17 seconds scene was that the fear Riker had was only for his son. 

The set up was this:

Picard says he heard "the delivery was touch and go."

Riker responds that the message he received from sick bay was only, "You better get down here right away." He then says it was the longest turbo ride of his life and that he was, "I thought I was losing him. My unborn son."

Why didn't it occur to him that the mother, Deanna, was the one in danger, the one experiencing complications?

Maybe I'm supposed to hand wave that future medical advances have rendered maternal maternity obsolete. That's a big ask, though, especially in light of the fact that infant mortality still would have been an issue so as to be the only potential issue on Riker's mind at the time. And given today's culture and climate, where maternal mortality is back in the spotlight in a big way, it seemed liked such an odd concern to leap frog over. 

I get that this season is focused on fathers and sons. And I like a good father/son story. But with how much Beverly and Deanna have been relegated to breeders, and a nagger, and secret holder in keeping a man's son away from his father, I really wish the show runners had left the TNG cast alone and told this "story," if the thin excuse for a plotline spanning these hours warrants that label, with their own d@mn original characters. 

In fact, this is my challenge to all who like this season: I invite you to ask yourself, would you like it just as much if all the characters were original ones? 

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Francie
left out a 'the'

[Prevailing Wind]

35 minutes ago, Francie said:

In fact, this is my challenge to all who like this season: I invite you to ask yourself, would you like it just as much if all the characters were original ones? 

You're assuming we like this hot mess.  Bad assumption.  ;-)

[RedHawk]

On 3/4/2023 at 6:00 PM, ML89 said:

Last week, I was so tired of Raffi and now this week, her storyline is so much better - thank you, Worf. 
 

Anyone else think when Crusher said “Dominion War” to Seven that Seven was thinking “who in the what now?” Voyager was gone during all that.  

Indeed, thank you Worf and Michael Dorn. Saved the day in more ways than one. I liked the character of Raffi in the previous seasons but I was finding her tedious this go-round until she and Worf paired up. Their unintentionally falling into "bad cop, good cop" was a treat

I have never gotten around to watching Voyager and have only seen a few episodes of DS9 so at times I'm "who in the what now?" about many plot points that reference characters and events from those series. It's never been a big problem for me because usually in context everything is understandable enough or someone here will explain the references and back story. And at times I'm glad I'm not so aware of those shows and the entire canon so can just take each episode/season of Picard as it comes. 

On 3/30/2023 at 10:55 AM, Francie said:

When they titled this episode 17 Seconds, I didn't realize that would also correspond with the length of the entirety of Deanna Troi's screen time in the first seven episodes. 

LOL, very true. I thought it was a tribute to The Cure.

[paigow]

On 3/2/2023 at 12:57 PM, jmonique said:

I get it, though. It's gotta be really hard to find 20-year-old white guys for roles in Hollywood. 🙄

When Brad Pitt is your accent role model in acting school,,, these things happen...