S22.E12: Almost Famous

[WendyCR72]

We have a week off before this episode, which airs on January 26, 2023:

Quote

After a teenager is killed, Cosgrove and Shaw discover what lengths kids will go to these days to become Internet famous. Price and Maroun take a risk to go after who they believe is the real criminal in the case, but wind up back where they started.

 

[WendyCR72]

This episode just shows how crime has evolved in the 30 years since this show began.

All about internet fame, its dark underside, followers, and views. My generation, Generation X, was probably the last generation with one foot in "before technology" and "technology overload".

In that vein, I sort of miss the older episodes with straight up murders with no flashy wizardry, etc., but I guess it is what it is. Though we did get a glimpse of this future with computers aiding crime so very long ago with "Virus" in 1993 with the late Dana Elcar, who played the bitter man/father that went blind because of his diabetes, and his kid messed with hospital computers to give wrong doses of insulin to patients.

Anyway, it was...okay. And I know - speaking of computers - the lady techie giving exposition with computer footage is here to stay, but I miss when the detectives were actually shown to have to dig for clues. Sigh.

(This post sounds very "get off my lawn!" I'm only 50, I swear. LOL!)

I will say the cop side has gelled fine. I just wish I could pinpoint why the lawyer side doesn't grab me. I don't hate Hugh Dancy. Odelya Halevi seems to be capable. But that part always seems to have my eyes glaze over.

On a positive note (see? I can do that!), at least we finally saw someone from the ME's office, so there's that.

[Xeliou66]

I liked this episode - I thought it was a good case, yes it had a lot of internet stuff, but it was pretty timely as there have been plenty of cases of people doing stupid shit for online fame and social media likes.

I agree that the investigation part is better than the legal part right now - the investigations are well done and Cosgrove/Shaw play off of each other nicely and the chemistry between the players in the first half is good, and I agree the legal side seems to slow down some, while I like Price fine and don’t dislike Maroun the way some do, the pair is a bit low energy at times, and I don’t find the legal stuff as compelling. I still enjoy the show more than most it seems, but I agree the legal side has lacked something lately, though I’m not quite sure of what it is exactly. I think in this episode it was mainly that the episode took more good twists in the first half, I never saw it coming that the super was the shooter, while the second half just wasn’t as compelling, it wasn’t bad though and I did think the case was pretty good.

I am annoyed by the weekly foot chases - they’ve borrowed that from FBI it seems, and they don’t add anything to the show.

I couldn’t believe the judge was allowing the defense to imply the super was a pedophile who was molesting the victim, there wasn’t an ounce of proof of that and yet the judge let the defense lawyer go on. Price and Maroun were rightfully shocked about that.

I liked seeing Jack at the courthouse, it’s rare that we see him outside of the DA’s office now so I enjoyed seeing him at the courthouse building with Nolan.

So overall I liked this one, decent case, I once again liked the detective part better than the legal part which has been a constant for me lately but overall I’m enjoying the show.

[Diana Berry]

Good case.  

question.  I missed it.  What was the stunt that the two young men were taking part in?

impeckable chicken gave me a chuckle. 

[Door County Cherry]

I think my issue with the legal side of the show has less to do with the actors and more to do with how stupid I find the law actions in the courtroom--ironically because of what the original taught me about the law.  

For instance, the warrant was for the phone/video and was made in good faith.  They would have issued a proper search warrant had they known the true owner.  The sleazy content guy wouldn't have been able to stall the cops from executing a warrant.  They don't need a lawyer's permission to perform a search.  Finally, the move to dismiss the evidence would have been a pre-trial motion.  

The things the judge allowed didn't feel reasonable.  

I also wanted Pryce to tell the "I have 8 million followers kid" that his followers are unlikely to be serving jury duty and he represents everything the "olds" despise.  I'm glad they're going to prosecute him.  I wish we would have seen it.  

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

This episode just shows how crime has evolved in the 30 years since this show began.

All about internet fame, its dark underside, followers, and views. My generation, Generation X, was probably the last generation with one foot in "before technology" and "technology overload".

In that vein, I sort of miss the older episodes with straight up murders with no flashy wizardry, etc., but I guess it is what it is. Though we did get a glimpse of this future with computers aiding crime so very long ago with "Virus" in 1993 with the late Dana Elcar, who played the bitter man/father that went blind because of his diabetes, and his kid messed with hospital computers to give wrong doses of insulin to patients.

Anyway, it was...okay. And I know - speaking of computers - the lady techie giving exposition with computer footage is here to stay, but I miss when the detectives were actually shown to have to dig for clues. Sigh.

(This post sounds very "get off my lawn!" I'm only 50, I swear. LOL!)

Being a technophobe or a technophile is not really age related, despite that being a commonly held belief. 20 years ago when I was 50, I was able to get hired because of my technical expertise, for job openings that were made vacant by those who had no aptitude for technology or desire to learn it. We all have areas of expertise that just don’t “click” for us.

Apparently Cosgrove represents the Luddite point of view on the show, and yet he’s still young enough to chase perps through the streets, which I appreciate because it subverts the ageist trope of technophobes being “old.”

I hope the next generation of L&O detectives might include an even younger technology-deficient detective who is still of value because of other special areas of proficiency, like, say, an ability to appear relatable to persons of interest and thereby get them to spill information. This non-tech-savvy detective could be paired with an older partner who is a bit of a tech guru, perhaps recognizing a yet-unknown app on a suspect’s phone or something.

 

7 hours ago, Diana Berry said:

 I missed it.  What was the stunt that the two young men were taking part in?

The stunt (or “challenge”) was to kick in a door. 
The building super posited to the detectives that Eli selected his door because it was in the basement and therefore isolated (and less likely to result in neighbors calling the police).

The ME showed the dead teen’s ankle was broken from kicking in the door. If this were an earlier L&O episode, there would have probably been a remark by one of the teens or their “Business Manager” about how easy it is to kick in a door as seen on TV.

BTW, I missed part of the episode too due to a phone call, and was able to watch it via the NBC app on my Roku TV. 
I watched it after 5am, but maybe it was available earlier? 
And maybe also at NBC.com?

Edited January 27, 2023 by shapeshifter

[storyskip]

I liked this one. I feel that of all the episodes this season at least, this felt more OG Mothership.  It was solid police work, passionate ADA work, no one was personally entangled in the case or being emotionally manipulated by the case and the case itself wasn't pelting us with woke anvils.

The weekly foot chase scenes on the Law side I get the sense that the writers are poking fun because, at least the past 3 chases, just before the perp bolts you hear either Shaw or Cosgrove saying "oh, not again / please don't" or something to that affect. 

I enjoyed Price getting pissed off at the end and getting to be a little "And you get prosecuted, and you get prosecuted, and you want to be asshats also, come on over here and get some prosecution of your own, I've got extra."

[bluegirl147]

13 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

All about internet fame, its dark underside, followers, and views. My generation, Generation X, was probably the last generation with one foot in "before technology" and "technology overload".

I absolutely loathe the words content, brand and followers.  That type of social media is going to be the downfall of our society.

13 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

(This post sounds very "get off my lawn!" I'm only 50, I swear. LOL!)

I'm only a few years older than you and I find myself saying yep I've turned into that person.

12 hours ago, Diana Berry said:

impeckable chicken gave me a chuckle. 

Me too.  Great name for a chicken restaurant.

11 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

The things the judge allowed didn't feel reasonable. 

I haven't really liked the judges they have have had lately.  I wonder if the writers have a legal advisor. Some of the rulings this season have been just flat out wrong.

[Cobb Salad]

Another “someone/this thing/whatever made me do this so I shouldn’t be held accountable” episode.  I did like it though. 

I’m an old GenXer who when I started working in the 80s was the “techie” in the office.  These days I’m an aspiring Luddite so watching this episode I shake my head at what these influencers will do to be “famous”.  I did not get how even though these kids came from troubled backgrounds/had issues with their parents that the parents would just give permission to this guy who is almost a kid himself (compared to the parents) to allow their child to live in his place and by his rules.  

About that judge who was unfriendly towards Pryce - I was appalled by that as well.  Given what was being implied I can’t believe that would actually take place in a courtroom so I think that might have been the writers way of amping up the drama.  

I’m glad in the end that they were going to hold the kid who refused to help later accountable and yes it would have been nice to have seen him getting sentenced.  I guess since episodes are shorter these days something like that is sacrificed.  

[bluegirl147]

4 minutes ago, Cobb Salad said:

I’m glad in the end that they were going to hold the kid who refused to help later accountable and yes it would have been nice to have seen him getting sentenced.  I guess since episodes are shorter these days something like that is sacrificed.  

I hope the book was thrown at him.  He was awful.

4 minutes ago, Cobb Salad said:

 These days I’m an aspiring Luddite so watching this episode I shake my head at what these influencers will do to be “famous”.

I sometimes wonder if I was 30 yrs younger would I want to do what these young people do today and I think Jesus I hope not.  

[shapeshifter]

19 minutes ago, Cobb Salad said:

About that judge who was unfriendly towards Pryce - I was appalled by that as well.

I think most viewers were appalled by the judge's decisions, but maybe this is another example of: 

20 minutes ago, Cobb Salad said:

I guess since episodes are shorter these days something like that is sacrificed.  

——meaning that in the earlier seasons of L&O the judge would have more definitively cited legal reasons for the ruling.
I think this has happened on several of the reboot episodes. 
So this could be due a shorter run time for episodes, or maybe the writers want to give us viewers something to hash out amongst ourselves on social media (like here).

 

[blackwing]

I can't stand social media "influencers", so I was really happy to see prison time for the content manager.  I think this is a timely episode given all the stupid stunts people are doing, but unfortunately, I doubt the teens who would benefit from seeing this episode actually watch L&O.  

16 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I couldn’t believe the judge was allowing the defense to imply the super was a pedophile who was molesting the victim, there wasn’t an ounce of proof of that and yet the judge let the defense lawyer go on. Price and Maroun were rightfully shocked about that.

 

15 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

I think my issue with the legal side of the show has less to do with the actors and more to do with how stupid I find the law actions in the courtroom--ironically because of what the original taught me about the law.  

For instance, the warrant was for the phone/video and was made in good faith.  They would have issued a proper search warrant had they known the true owner.  The sleazy content guy wouldn't have been able to stall the cops from executing a warrant.  They don't need a lawyer's permission to perform a search.  Finally, the move to dismiss the evidence would have been a pre-trial motion.  

The things the judge allowed didn't feel reasonable.  

I also wanted Pryce to tell the "I have 8 million followers kid" that his followers are unlikely to be serving jury duty and he represents everything the "olds" despise.  I'm glad they're going to prosecute him.  I wish we would have seen it.  

 

3 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

I absolutely loathe the words content, brand and followers.  That type of social media is going to be the downfall of our society.

I haven't really liked the judges they have have had lately.  I wonder if the writers have a legal advisor. Some of the rulings this season have been just flat out wrong.

 

19 minutes ago, Cobb Salad said:

About that judge who was unfriendly towards Pryce - I was appalled by that as well.  Given what was being implied I can’t believe that would actually take place in a courtroom so I think that might have been the writers way of amping up the drama.  

I’m glad in the end that they were going to hold the kid who refused to help later accountable and yes it would have been nice to have seen him getting sentenced.  I guess since episodes are shorter these days something like that is sacrificed.  

Agree completely with everything said in the above comments.  I still like both parts of the show, but lately I've been finding myself extremely irritated (as in, want to throw something at my TV irritated) with the judges.  It's gotten to the point where whenever they have to go to chambers, well, obviously the judge is going to side with the defense, because then that makes the case more interesting/challenging.

But it's truly ridiculous.  This judge was really ridiculous.  Allowing the defense attorney to suggest that the super is a pedophile who was in love with this boy, and that the boy kicked in the door to confront him?  Without any kind of evidence to support it?  I feel like in past seasons of this show, the prosecution would have moved to strike and the judge would have told her that if she continued like this that she would be sanctioned.

Has the prosecution won any battles in chambers this season?  I feel like every single time, the judge agrees with the defense.  The motion she allowed to suppress the video was awful.  When Cosgrove and Shaw served the manager with the warrant, they should have been able to take the phone.  Especially if, as the defense attorney later argued, he owned all the phones.  Why exactly did they need to come back with their lawyer to execute a valid search warrant??

I get that this is all in the acting, but I really despised a lot of the characters in this episode.  The defense attorney was the worst.  So condescending, with such a smug tone.  Max's parents were awful.  Creepy manager was awful.  I hope Max gets convicted of manslaughter, he reneged on the deal.  I hope his parents get convicted of obstruction, they were clearly trying to flee the area with him despite knowing he had an order to appear in court.

I know we will probably not hear about any resolution, but I would love follow up on some of these cases.  I get that they want us to continue the story in our own minds, but I want to see some words flash up at the end of the episode, like a postscript in a movie telling us what happened later on.  "Max was convicted of manslaughter and is currently in Riker's serving 10-20.  He eats lunch with Jason every day.  Max's parents were convicted of obstruction.  The dad is sharing a cell with Todd Chrisley".

At least post updates on the website in some kind of "continue the case" section to tell us what happened.  It wouldn't take long to come up with two sentences to resolve things.

[Raja]

34 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I hope the book was thrown at him.  He was awful.

I sometimes wonder if I was 30 yrs younger would I want to do what these young people do today and I think Jesus I hope not.  

If it was Mr. Stone or Jack or even young D.A. Jack with Mr. Cutter I would have faith. Now only year 2 Maroun channeling Carmichael has the fire of justice.

When the first shows rotate up we often got a Dragnet like screen shot to tell us what happened 

[shapeshifter]

6 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Allowing the defense attorney to suggest that the super is a pedophile who was in love with this boy, and that the boy kicked in the door to confront him?  Without any kind of evidence to support it?

In earlier episodes of L&O and many other courtroom drama shows, the opposing council would object to having not seen this evidence (photos of the super with the victim) before it was presented at trial, and then would have demanded to see the uncropped images, as well as have them forensically evaluated to be sure they weren't PhotoShopped. 

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I know we will probably not hear about any resolution, but I would love follow up on some of these cases.  I get that they want us to continue the story in our own minds, but I want to see some words flash up at the end of the episode, like a postscript in a movie telling us what happened later on.  "Max was convicted of manslaughter and is currently in Riker's serving 10-20.  He eats lunch with Jason every day.  Max's parents were convicted of obstruction.  The dad is sharing a cell with Todd Chrisley".

They (Jack Webb) used to do that at the end of Dragnet episodes, which were based on real cases.
I can't find an image, but here's the closing audio from one of the earlier, radio episodes of Dragnet, telling the fate of the convicted killer: 
https://youtu.be/R-Hp7D4SQ7A?t=1667

 

[bluegirl147]

21 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I get that this is all in the acting, but I really despised a lot of the characters in this episode.  The defense attorney was the worst.  So condescending, with such a smug tone.  Max's parents were awful.  Creepy manager was awful.  I hope Max gets convicted of manslaughter, he reneged on the deal.  I hope his parents get convicted of obstruction, they were clearly trying to flee the area with him despite knowing he had an order to appear in court.

As I watching the episode I was thinking has there ever been an episode that I so clearly despised the characters.  All of them were just terrible.  The only guest characters I felt any sort of goodwill towards was the building super? janitor? who actually did kill the kid and the paralyzed girl. I would say the mother but she was barely shown.

[Madding crowd]

I also despised the judge but I think there were too many twists to do justice to the court side. They had the bike stealer, then the building super, then Mad Max and finally the content manager. They also spent time on the girl in the wheelchair. At the very least the judge should have sustained the objection to showing cropped pictures and calling the man a pedophile.

They also touched on the issue of a man taking pictures of his girlfriend in high school and being forever branded as a pedo. This was further blurred by the guy looking and acting sketchy. I’m glad Pryce prosecuted Max-he could have done the ‘prank’ himself if it was so important. I guess signing your minor child over to an influencer is no different than the parents long ago who basically sold their kids to sports managers and tv/movie producers.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Madding crowd

[The Wild Sow]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

know we will probably not hear about any resolution, but I would love follow up on some of these cases.  I get that they want us to continue the story in our own minds, but I want to see some words flash up at the end of the episode, like a postscript in a movie telling us what happened later on.  "Max was convicted of manslaughter and is currently in Riker's serving 10-20.  He eats lunch with Jason every day.  Max's parents were convicted of obstruction.  The dad is sharing a cell with Todd Chrisley".

Heh heh - like Dragnet!

Yeah, Mad Max was pretty awful and deserves to be punished - but he is still a teenager and look

who raised him! And kept giving him horrible advice.  Max was all about the fame, but they were about the fame and mostly the $$$.

And......now Life imitated Art here (or maybe vice-versa!):  They  UberEats or DoorDash guy walking into the Duquesne-Loyola basketball game with a delivery the other night - yep, it was a prank, done for Internet fame and likes! Sorry, can’t seem to post the link here.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by The Wild Sow

[Nintra16]

3 hours ago, blackwing said:

I know we will probably not hear about any resolution, but I would love follow up on some of these cases.  I get that they want us to continue the story in our own minds, but I want to see some words flash up at the end of the episode, like a postscript in a movie telling us what happened later on.  "Max was convicted of manslaughter and is currently in Riker's serving 10-20.  He eats lunch with Jason every day.  Max's parents were convicted of obstruction.  The dad is sharing a cell with Todd Chrisley".

At least post updates on the website in some kind of "continue the case" section to tell us what happened.  It wouldn't take long to come up with two sentences to resolve things.

I said that as well; this could easily be a two part episode. I thought it was very well done and shows what could happen after the camera is turned off. One of my favorite episodes this season. 

Anyone felt the super should be charged? Moving the body and waiting to call 911 didn't sit right with me. 

[shapeshifter]

43 minutes ago, Nintra16 said:

Anyone felt the super should be charged? Moving the body and waiting to call 911 didn't sit right with me. 

The super was at least charged with having an unregistered gun, and moving the body plus lying about it gets him instruction obstruction of justice. 
So his appearance in court might not mean he’s even out on bail.

But shooting a violent (door destroying) intruder breaking into your home is probably justifiable homicide. 

Edited January 28, 2023 by shapeshifter
Silly autocorrect

[illdoc]

19 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

instruction of justice.

I think you meant obstruction.

[Cobb Salad]

40 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

But shooting a violent (door destroying) intruder breaking into your home is probably justifiable homicide. 

The law varies by state.  I don’t know where something like this stands in NY but where I am (NJ) shooting someone who barges into a home with malicious intent isn’t justified unless they’re physically attacking a victim there. 

[853fisher]

Speaking of the "super is a pedophile" angle, I thought those photos of him with the victim looked badly photoshopped or something. For a second I thought it was going to come out that the defense attorney had shopped them herself, which would have been really silly.  In reality, maybe the props people just didn't want to put much effort into something we would see so fleetingly.  Did anyone else think they looked funny or is it just me?

Edited January 28, 2023 by 853fisher

[Cobb Salad]

10 hours ago, 853fisher said:

Speaking of the "super is a pedophile" angle, I thought those photos of him with the victim looked badly photoshopped or something. For a second I thought it was going to come out that the defense attorney had shopped them herself, which would have been really silly.  In reality, maybe the props people just didn't want to put much effort into something we would see so fleetingly.  Did anyone else think they looked funny or is it just me?

I initially thought they were badly photoshopped photos that the defense team had done but the super’s reaction disproved that.  They don’t look like real photos.  If they are photoshopped I don’t understand why they couldn’t have taken a few pictures of both actors that would have looked more natural.  I even wonder if that exchange with the super was a last minute addition and they were limited in time to set it up so we have the bad photos.  

[dubbel zout]

20 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

20 hours ago, Cobb Salad said:

I’m glad in the end that they were going to hold the kid who refused to help later accountable and yes it would have been nice to have seen him getting sentenced.  I guess since episodes are shorter these days something like that is sacrificed.  

I hope the book was thrown at him.  He was awful.

Max's casting was really good, because I found him so creepy. Didn't care about anything except how many followers he has. I wish we'd seen him sentenced to hard time, because the punk deserved it.

The show is leaning way too hard on the tech side of things to solve the crimes, I agree. I'm sure it saves time and money to shoot in the studio instead of on location, but that was one of the things that made OG L&O distinctive: We saw the detectives on the streets, and the ADAs would often talk outside.

I often wonder how I'd handle social media if I were a teen these days. A lot of it depends on the parents and peer groups. My teen nieces have phones with limited Internet access. They can text and stuff, but the aren't allowed to use apps without permission. Their parents check their phones regularly. It's not done punitively, and the girls know that's part of the deal of having a phone someone else is paying for. I think their friends are in roughly the same boat, so no feels too left behind. There's always that one kid whose parents are super strict, and no one holds it against them.

I'm forever grateful my idiotic behavior wasn't captured on any medium except photographs.

[Chyromaniac]

Forget Dragnet, 30 years ago this very show would sometimes give us a written epilogue for ancillary trials - Bunny Russo comes to mind.  They could’ve let us know how much time Maxie is currently serving.

Speaking of which, I was waiting for Price to threaten Max with the video.  Sure it was ruled out vs the content boss- but once Max backed out of the deal, I assume that it had to be fair game vs him.  I assume that would’ve been enough to convict, and probably eliminate any other possible motives.  Personally, I think the kid probably genuinely thought he was playing a “crazy viral prank” on someone he thought would ultimately forgive him (once he paid for the damage with the exorbitant influencer cash he would surely be getting).

18 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I think there were too many twists to do justice to the court side. They had the bike stealer, then the building super, then Mad Max and finally the content manager. They also spent time on the girl in the wheelchair

Yeah, I think this is the issue with the current show - it’s kind of a matter of resource management.  I feel like they know how to write a decent murder mystery, and so the cop story gets the most focus in the script.  As a result, those characters and plot lines benefit, and feel more developed.

On the other hand, I paused the show at the bail hearing, and it was 43min in (commercials included).  That leaves less than half the show for the courtroom side.  I don’t know for sure, but that feels like what the ratio has typically been since the return.  Is that why the cases seem to lack nuance or coherence sometimes?  Or who knows- maybe it’s always been like this, and the 90’s staff were just better at creating legal drama that doesn’t always feel like Judges arbitrarily taking the ADA’s toys away.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Chyromaniac

[Morrigan2575]

I really like the Cop half, the law half just doesn't work. 

[bluegirl147]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I really like the Cop half, the law half just doesn't work. 

I'm in the middle of an entire rewatch and back in the day both halves worked well together.  But as @Chyromaniacsaid now the legal part is getting less time.  There was an episode a couple months ago that I swear deleted entire scenes in court. It went from one thing and then seemingly skipped some stuff.  I don't know to blame the writers the director or the editor.

[Door County Cherry]

19 hours ago, 853fisher said:

Speaking of the "super is a pedophile" angle, I thought those photos of him with the victim looked badly photoshopped or something. For a second I thought it was going to come out that the defense attorney had shopped them herself, which would have been really silly.  In reality, maybe the props people just didn't want to put much effort into something we would see so fleetingly.  Did anyone else think they looked funny or is it just me?

 

8 hours ago, Cobb Salad said:

I initially thought they were badly photoshopped photos that the defense team had done but the super’s reaction disproved that.  They don’t look like real photos.  If they are photoshopped I don’t understand why they couldn’t have taken a few pictures of both actors that would have looked more natural.  I even wonder if that exchange with the super was a last minute addition and they were limited in time to set it up so we have the bad photos.  

I think the photos looked photoshopped.  This happened last season too.  But I don't believe they're supposed to be photoshopped in the show..they just were by production.  Instead of paying the actors to take a pic together, it looks like they photoshopped them in or in front of a green screen.

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

 

I think the photos looked photoshopped.  This happened last season too.  But I don't believe they're supposed to be photoshopped in the show..they just were by production.  Instead of paying the actors to take a pic together, it looks like they photoshopped them in or in front of a green screen.

I think that is exactly it. There was a Criminal Intent episode where Goren/Eames saw a picture of the victim with his mother, and the PhotoShop there was also horrible.

You'd think in the decade since then that the editing would not be so obvious, but no. Really, the actors should be photographed together if something ties into the plot, so it doesn't look so fake.

[edhopper]

The "let's throw the DA a curve" this week was ridiculous.  There was no way the 4th Amendment would hold up, they had a warrant for the phone Max had, ownership would not matter. And no Judge would allow the Defense to accues a witness of that pedophile garbage.

[Joimiaroxeu]

For some reason I thought NYC had a curfew for children. I realize curfews aren't panaceas.

Moving a lot isn't necessarily evidence of criminal behavior. Seems to me like a dangerous conclusion for the detectives to jump to.

And of course the perp went all parkour on the detectives. It's funny how on L&O the person who runs usually doesn't end up being the one prosecuted.

What determines which side of the judge's bench the prosecution and the defense sit on? I've noticed the placement switches back and forth on this show from episode to episode but I can't figure out why.

So Jason was a human trafficker, no? (And is it me or did he not resemble a young, WASPy version of John Travolta? Someone on reddit called him a discount Chris Pine, hah hah.)

You'd think Jason could've afforded a more aggressive defense attorney. The one he had came across to me like she was college professor teaching a freshman English class. But maybe that was point: jury management. A louder lawyer may have made him look more guilty to them.

Max's parents were idiots. They'd risk sending their kid to prison to keep hold of his social media followers? But in the end it paid off because Max isn't getting released any time soon and they got to keep his million dollars in hush money.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Joimiaroxeu

[dubbel zout]

5 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

So Jason was a human trafficker, no?

I wouldn't say he was a trafficker—the kids weren't transported  or coerced into forced labor or sexual exploitation—but being the guardian of numerous underage kids was definitely sketchy. I know the parents signed away their rights to him, but that also seems sketchy. Annoyingly, that part was completely dropped.

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

So Jason was a human trafficker, no?

8 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I wouldn't say he was a trafficker—the kids weren't transported  or coerced into forced labor or sexual exploitation

If "forced labor" of minors defines a trafficker, it seems he could be guilty of that.🤷🏻‍♀️

 

[dubbel zout]

The kids seemed very willing to be there, so I don't think there was anything forced about it. They all wanted to be internet famous.

[AD35]

On 1/27/2023 at 3:22 PM, blackwing said:

The dad is sharing a cell with Todd Chrisley".

Is it wrong that I laughed out loud when I read that? As someone who's speeding towards 60 at warp 10 I like to think if I was the defendant's age I wouldn't be so desperate for fame and money that I would do any of the things mentioned on the show (and in real life). As I was watching the ep I kept thinking, who's the bigger attention-starved idiot. The person who come up with these stunts in the first place or the person who actually tries them.

[love2lovebadtv]

On 1/26/2023 at 10:03 PM, WendyCR72 said:

This episode just shows how crime has evolved in the 30 years since this show began.

All about internet fame, its dark underside, followers, and views. My generation, Generation X, was probably the last generation with one foot in "before technology" and "technology overload".

In that vein, I sort of miss the older episodes with straight up murders with no flashy wizardry, etc., but I guess it is what it is. Though we did get a glimpse of this future with computers aiding crime so very long ago with "Virus" in 1993 with the late Dana Elcar, who played the bitter man/father that went blind because of his diabetes, and his kid messed with hospital computers to give wrong doses of insulin to patients.

Anyway, it was...okay. And I know - speaking of computers - the lady techie giving exposition with computer footage is here to stay, but I miss when the detectives were actually shown to have to dig for clues. Sigh.

(This post sounds very "get off my lawn!" I'm only 50, I swear. LOL!)

I will say the cop side has gelled fine. I just wish I could pinpoint why the lawyer side doesn't grab me. I don't hate Hugh Dancy. Odelya Halevi seems to be capable. But that part always seems to have my eyes glaze over.

On a positive note (see? I can do that!), at least we finally saw someone from the ME's office, so there's that.

I loved seeing the ME's office, too! That was part of what made L&O interesting. 

And I'm not 50 yet but I miss some of the straight up detective work, too. This high-tech approach to crime is great but I like it when Law and Order is a little grittier. 

Still glad the show is back and hitting its stride in the second season!

[Raja]

8 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

You'd think Jason could've afforded a more aggressive defense attorney. The one he had came across to me like she was college professor teaching a freshman English class. But maybe that was point: jury management. A louder lawyer may have made him look more guilty to them.

Max's parents were idiots. They'd risk sending their kid to prison to keep hold of his social media followers? But in the end it paid off because Max isn't getting released any time soon and they got to keep his million dollars in hush money.

I was thinking about Max's lawyer. She let him walk right back into the state's bullseye for what more billable hours? From the arraignment judge forward it seemed as if New York was going to adult court with him and the company could not take their $$$$ back

[dubbel zout]

I'm surprised the judge allowed Max's lawyer to be the same as Jason's. Isn't that a conflict of interest? And no one suggested Max get his own lawyer. That used to be a fairly common plot point on the mothership. 

[WendyCR72]

4 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I'm surprised the judge allowed Max's lawyer to be the same as Jason's. Isn't that a conflict of interest? And no one suggested Max get his own lawyer. That used to be a fairly common plot point on the mothership. 

I get the feeling that a lot of the writers better versed in law and procedure have moved on since this show originally ended in 2010.

I do wish the new writers would familiarize themselves with legal procedures, rules, etc.

[Morrigan2575]

10 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

What determines which side of the judge's bench the prosecution and the defense sit on? I've noticed the placement switches back and forth on this show from episode to episode but I can't figure out why.

DA is always on the side near the jury.

[dubbel zout]

11 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I do wish the new writers would familiarize themselves with legal procedures, rules, etc.

It does seem like they're changing the law to fit the story instead of using actual law.

[shapeshifter]

5 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

It does seem like they're changing the law to fit the story instead of using actual law.

I have not studied law outside of the School of L&O, but, yes, a lot of the courtroom hijinks looks to be more like out of The Handmaid's Tale than real-life law.

There's a thread on Reddit under the LawAndOrder subreddit titled "Have the legal rulings in Law and Order season 22 been iffy?" that has comments similar to those upthread here along with some further, related remarks like (bold added by me):

• ". . . There was a prior search warrant in effect for that device looking for the video, so inevitable discovery is an easy counter argument to make not to mention an online backup of that video probably exists that Max would technically own, then there's the "but did Max's earnings pay for that phone so who's it really" argument could also be made" (reddit.com/r/LawAndOrder/comments/10o2z4o/comment/j6ef9lu).

And, especially, regarding:

12 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I get the feeling that a lot of the writers better versed in law and procedure have moved on since this show originally ended in 2010.

• ". . .  you rarely if ever hear them cite a case when discussing with the judge in chambers when they're trying to not let a motion be granted by the defense. I always felt like I learned something when any of the DAs would do that in Seasons 1-20 . . . " (reddit.com/r/LawAndOrder/comments/10o2z4o/comment/j6ehs7i)

[Raja]

Well we do have a 55 year old lawman getting into a foot chase every week now. It does seem as if the law versus order balance has changed. That defense lawyer as her kid was saying no,no,no, reminded me of the statues who just sat there as Detective Goren did his thing on Criminal Intent.

[Zaffy]

everything court related was ridiculous...

At one point I was sure the judge was also living in the same House of Content.
I am not a lawyer, I am not even American, but those court shenanigans feel less and less realistic...apparently tv writers think all audience are idiots..
 

[ML89]

On 1/30/2023 at 9:31 AM, shapeshifter said:

And, especially, regarding:

On 1/29/2023 at 9:09 PM, WendyCR72 said:

I get the feeling that a lot of the writers better versed in law and procedure have moved on since this show originally ended in 2010.

• ". . .  you rarely if ever hear them cite a case when discussing with the judge in chambers when they're trying to not let a motion be granted by the defense. I always felt like I learned something when any of the DAs would do that in Seasons 1-20 . . . " (reddit.com/r/LawAndOrder/comments/10o2z4o/comment/j6ehs7i)

Yes. No cases cited really is starting to show - it’s all emotion any more so I’m surprised Price didn’t complain to Jack about that judge. Between the boring law part and Magic Video Evidence, there’s not much lawyering or policing. Shaw and Cosgrove can go be Doctor Who companions after all their running practice. Did like the Zumba joke.

I also thought the Photoshop was going to be a fake by the defense, it was so awful.

Likable people were few and far between in this one, and I’m glad Mr “3 Million Followers” got his. Too bad Jack wasn’t there to say that 3 million followers wasn’t going to help this guy in prison, as he did to the Mack Rangers in “Performance” back in season 5.  

 

 

[GiandujaPie]

On 1/27/2023 at 12:22 PM, blackwing said:

I can't stand social media "influencers", so I was really happy to see prison time for the content manager.  I think this is a timely episode given all the stupid stunts people are doing, but unfortunately, I doubt the teens who would benefit from seeing this episode actually watch L&O.  

 

 

Agree completely with everything said in the above comments.  I still like both parts of the show, but lately I've been finding myself extremely irritated (as in, want to throw something at my TV irritated) with the judges.  It's gotten to the point where whenever they have to go to chambers, well, obviously the judge is going to side with the defense, because then that makes the case more interesting/challenging.

But it's truly ridiculous.  This judge was really ridiculous.  Allowing the defense attorney to suggest that the super is a pedophile who was in love with this boy, and that the boy kicked in the door to confront him?  Without any kind of evidence to support it?  I feel like in past seasons of this show, the prosecution would have moved to strike and the judge would have told her that if she continued like this that she would be sanctioned.

Has the prosecution won any battles in chambers this season?  I feel like every single time, the judge agrees with the defense.  The motion she allowed to suppress the video was awful.  When Cosgrove and Shaw served the manager with the warrant, they should have been able to take the phone.  Especially if, as the defense attorney later argued, he owned all the phones.  Why exactly did they need to come back with their lawyer to execute a valid search warrant??

I get that this is all in the acting, but I really despised a lot of the characters in this episode.  The defense attorney was the worst.  So condescending, with such a smug tone.  Max's parents were awful.  Creepy manager was awful.  I hope Max gets convicted of manslaughter, he reneged on the deal.  I hope his parents get convicted of obstruction, they were clearly trying to flee the area with him despite knowing he had an order to appear in court.

I know we will probably not hear about any resolution, but I would love follow up on some of these cases.  I get that they want us to continue the story in our own minds, but I want to see some words flash up at the end of the episode, like a postscript in a movie telling us what happened later on.  "Max was convicted of manslaughter and is currently in Riker's serving 10-20.  He eats lunch with Jason every day.  Max's parents were convicted of obstruction.  The dad is sharing a cell with Todd Chrisley".

At least post updates on the website in some kind of "continue the case" section to tell us what happened.  It wouldn't take long to come up with two sentences to resolve things.

i agree, I'm so sick and tired of "influencers" and hearing about internet personalities and their "content" which is nothing more than stupid pranks. I wish the mainstream media would stop covering these people and their stupid stunts which are now mostly generated to gin up outrage. 

The judge's rulings made no sense. At one point, I started wondering if she'd been bribed by the "content/house manager" as her rulings seemed so obviously biased in his favor. At the end when Price showed the defense attorney the contracts that the girl in the wheelchair and others signed, she looked like she had never seen them before. Really??? Ugh. 

[Samsnee]

How corrupt was the judge in this episode? Letting the defense make absurd charges accusing a witness of pedophilia? Ignoring blatant witness tampering and bribery?

This new season still blows. I hope Maroun leaves soon. She’s the weakest link. 

[Mellowyellow]

Excellent episode! Thoroughly enjoyed it.

I cheered at the end when Nolan said he was going to prosecute that little dumbass snot!!! Those greedy parents will need to use the money up on legal fees!