S02.E10: Holiday Hookah

[Crashcourse]

I don't think the Janine/Gregory story has anything to do with them being black.  Even though Janine is intelligent and nice, I just don't see her as being mature enough right now for Gregory or any other grown man.  Her being "quirky" gets old, fast.  That's why I think she and Gregory would be better off as just friends.  However, if he really is interested in her, I hope he lets Amber go ASAP, instead of dragging things out with her.  

[HyeChaps]

If Ava put her name in a few times, some people didn’t get any present. 

[Roaster]

I think Parks and Recreation is a closer analogue than The Office.   People working in local government.  Janine as the idealistic Leslie Knope; Ava as her boss Ron Swanson, who was cynical about the whole enterprise.  Other teachers and the janitor as the quirky characters you encounter,  One difference is P&R didn't bring in a love interest for Leslie until the third (?) season.

I agree they could probably use one additional character; a school nurse is a good suggestion.

And I doubt many viewers in the real world are rooting against Gregory and Janine.  Just a few internet people who think too much about TV shows.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Roaster
typo

[Crashcourse]

22 minutes ago, Roaster said:

Just a few internet people who think too much about TV shows.

Yeah, like analyzing Parks and Rec vs. The Office.  😊

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

3 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

I don't think the Janine/Gregory story has anything to do with them being black.  Even though Janine is intelligent and nice, I just don't see her as being mature enough right now for Gregory or any other grown man.  Her being "quirky" gets old, fast.  That's why I think she and Gregory would be better off as just friends.  However, if he really is interested in her, I hope he lets Amber go ASAP, instead of dragging things out with her.  

I think the point is not that the romance/mutual crush between them is about them being Black, but that no matter how familiar the beats are (Jim/Pam, Leslie/Ben, Jake/Amy, etc.), it’s very rare to see that kind of relationship play out between a Black couple on mainstream network television, and for Black viewers there is something very beautiful and special about seeing these characters have this kind of storyline. 

[mojito]

I thought Maurice was as a lot like Janine's last boyfriend: pleasant, but shallow.

To me, Gregory's afraid to break up with Amber because Barbara intimidates him, so I don't think he's not in any better shape than Janine. I could do without Gregory and Janine pairing up and all the "zany", seen-it-before antics that will follow, among them, their keeping their relationship a secret only to find out that everyone already knows and they don't much care.

Gregory is as much a nerd as Janine. White sweater, gold chain chain,  and all. 

I had a feeling that there would be some discussion about Christmas carols in the school, but this is a comedy about an inner city school run by a clueless, incompetent principal whose staff gets the job done despite her. Of course there would be Christmas carols, I wouldn't expect anything less of this farce. 

Mr. Johnson and Melissa dancing to a jazzy, slow "We Wish You A Merry Christmas" while Barbara grooves by herself is what I will most remember.

[Crashcourse]

33 minutes ago, mojito said:

To me, Gregory's afraid to break up with Amber because Barbara intimidates him, so I don't think he's not in any better shape than Janine.

Since Amber isn't Barbara's daughter, I don't think Gregory would be afraid to break up with her.

[qtpye]

19 hours ago, JakeyJokes said:

Jacob was annoying but if Janine’s love language is Gifts, his is Acts of Service. I love that Barbara appreciated the sentiment and praised him like she would a five-year-old, and Melissa was genuinely happy about the scratch-offs, as I would be, too.

Jacob is both a sweetheart and totally annoying. 

However, did someone never teach this child how to cross the street?  He could have died.

14 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

Since Amber isn't Barbara's daughter, I don't think Gregory would be afraid to break up with her.

I love Gregory but I can see him ghosting a few women in the name of "not wanting to hurt feelings or be a part of a big emotional scene".

[kathyk24]

1 hour ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

I think the point is not that the romance/mutual crush between them is about them being Black, but that no matter how familiar the beats are (Jim/Pam, Leslie/Ben, Jake/Amy, etc.), it’s very rare to see that kind of relationship play out between a Black couple on mainstream network television, and for Black viewers there is something very beautiful and special about seeing these characters have this kind of storyline. 

Gregory is just as quirky as Janine, I like the idea of a couple being friends before falling in love. I'm tired of the opposites attract trope.

[Crashcourse]

Gregory might be a little quirky, but I haven't seen him do stupid, possibly unsafe things like Janine has done.

[mojito]

1 hour ago, Crashcourse said:

Since Amber isn't Barbara's daughter, I don't think Gregory would be afraid to break up with her.

You see how well I keep up with TV romances...I don't remember a second woman in his life.

[callie lee 29]

I don't remember Amber at all. Who is she? 

[JamieLynn832002]

1 hour ago, callie lee 29 said:

I don't remember Amber at all. Who is she? 

I think she was the mom he had to talk to about getting her son to school on time? They didn't get together until this season though.

[JeanJean]

On 12/8/2022 at 9:03 PM, ridethemaverick said:

Not to take this to a super serious place, but as a black viewer who didn't watch the office, I'm loving and appreciating the slow burn romance between two black leads because it's rare that we get that on network tv. It's a little disheartening that people are rooting against them because some white couple did it on another show years ago. 

Hope the writers don't listen to the chatter. I loved them tonight and look forward to more flirting and will they won't they before they finally get together :)

Thank you so much. Now I'll look at it in a new way.

[Ms Blue Jay]

8 hours ago, Roaster said:

I think Parks and Recreation is a closer analogue than The Office.   People working in local government.  Janine as the idealistic Leslie Knope; Ava as her boss Ron Swanson, who was cynical about the whole enterprise.  Other teachers and the janitor as the quirky characters you encounter,  One difference is P&R didn't bring in a love interest for Leslie until the third (?) season.

Leslie and Mark were already kind of love interests in Season 1.  It just didn't work out and they exiled him.

There are a lot of similarities between Ava and Michael, and I still think that The Office stands as a good analogy.  Just because Janine loves her job and Jim doesn't, doesn't mean it isn't a good analogy.  They are both at very similar stages in their life.  Barbara and Melissa are good stand-ins for people who don't exactly love their jobs, like Toby and Stanley for instance.  

Edited December 10, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Bookish Jen]

12 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

Gregory might be a little quirky, but I haven't seen him do stupid, possibly unsafe things like Janine has done.

Welk, he did go outside in the cold without a jacket. Hypothermia isn't fun.

[mrsbagnet]

14 hours ago, mojito said:

You see how well I keep up with TV romances...I don't remember a second woman in his life.

Barbara's daughter broke up with him bc he didn't make enough money. She sent a text to Barbara about him being a "broke boi." The new girlfriend is the mom who put her number in his Halloween candy.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Man, Gregory gets hit on a lot.

[mrsbagnet]

My favorite moment came at the end when Ava said that her boyfriend had been dating her longer than she'd been dating him.

Janine and Gregory awkwardly cute with each other, but I agree that she's not ready to be in a new relationship. I'm awkward about clothes and men in the way that Janine is. I wish I had a little of Ava's confidence in me.

Edited December 11, 2022 by mrsbagnet

[JakeyJokes]

On 12/9/2022 at 4:30 PM, qtpye said:

Jacob is both a sweetheart and totally annoying. 

However, did someone never teach this child how to cross the street?  He could have died.

On 12/9/2022 at 4:17 PM, Crashcourse said:

There was a crosswalk! But he still should have been looking both ways.

The show doesn’t need to get too serious, but his hinting of Christmas not being a good time for him makes me think that he is very similar to Janine in being an overzealous “people-pleaser” to make up for not feeling loved as a child (this especially happens to children of substance abusers). It definitely explains why they’re such good friends.

[yourdreamer]

I rewatched the first season this week (still kept up with this season to date).  There was.a scene in the Step episode where Ava was dealing with her grandma and showing a different side of herself (compassion towards others).  Has there be any additional mentions of grandma since that episode?

To the topic at hand, this episode, I appreciated the janitor Mr Johnson more than in some other episodes - between the honestly appreciation of Janine’s gift to his “parenting” Jacob to not be a Grinch, he was lovely.  

Barbara and Melissa continued their mean girlishness from last episode again today, towards Jacob this time (both times has been somewhat understandable and somewhat mean).

[shipmate]

I think that Janine will be paired with Maurice next based on their interaction after Gregory left to be with Amber.

[Crashcourse]

I had never heard of Vince Staples before, so I looked him up.  Yep, I'm old. 

[Jeopardy15]

On 12/8/2022 at 3:17 PM, cinsays said:

I loved everything about this episode but i just don't like Ava.  Guess i am in the minority but her snobby entitled attitude just rubs me the wrong way. 

You are not the only one. I hate the Ava character too. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Ditto comments upthread, isn't Jacob Jewish? Seemed to me like caroling wouldn't be his thing anyway.

Ava was killing it in that sexy Santa outfit. Wow. Maybe not appropriate around those kids though.

Does anyone know what that rap/hip-hop song was when Gregory first sat down with Janine in the club? Tunefind doesn't have it. I've googled clips from the lyrics I thought I heard but had no success. Is it possible it was just something created for the show?

Janine slow grinding on Greg! Giiiirrrl.

Bad Gregory, just leaving Janine hanging like that. I wonder how far he would've let things go if Amber hadn't called? But Janine knows he's seeing someone so unless she can confirm they're not exclusive she should leave that alone.

Interesting choice for Ava's boyfriend. I guess a professional athlete who's out of town a lot makes sense though.

[callie lee 29]

23 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Does anyone know what that rap/hip-hop song was when Gregory first sat down with Janine in the club? Tunefind doesn't have it. I've googled clips from the lyrics I thought I heard but had no success. Is it possible it was just something created for the show?

Janine slow grinding on Greg! Giiiirrrl.

I *think* it's Pigeon Food by Hannibal Leq. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

15 minutes ago, callie lee 29 said:

I *think* it's Pigeon Food by Hannibal Leq. 

Thank you!!!!!! That's the song. I can now keep replaying it until I get tired of it.

[LydiaMoon1]

Hey, Zach!

Jacob, you're right. Your voice is better suited for spoken word.

Ava was wrong to put her name in the gift shoe multiple times. LOL

Ava to Gregory: "Thinking small is what got you in a dead-end job in a poorly run school"

Gregory: Can't argue with that.

When Janine gave Mr. Johnson his gift, I loved  that she explained why Mr. Johnson gets so upset when his image is used without his permission and compensation (I'm looking at you Little Mr. Johnson) and that it stems from his nude modeling days. That was a fantastic bit of continuity. I love how the show peels back the characters' motivations layer by layer.

"How will they know we're thirsty? Should we pant?" Janine....Girl....whet?? Janine and Tariq's junior high school relationship really stunted her social and emotional development. Thank God Erika has befriended her.

I really enjoy Erika. She is the friend that Janine desperately needed. She’s super cute and super chill and I love how she gently, but firmly steers Janine away from her social awkwardness.

I also loved when Mr. Johnson gave Jacob a dose of realness. He was to Jacob what Ericka was to Janine. In fact, I loved the parallels between their storylines. Both Jacob and Janine are kind and generous individuals, but both lean towards excess.  I like how they both benefited from having someone rein them in a little and tell them when they're doing too dayum much. We could all use a little of that. Well, everybody except Ava. Too dayum much is her MO.

"Sorry, I don't speak line. Ladies, don't look at them." Why am I not surprised that Ava rolls up to the club with an entourage?

"That's an impressive circle twerk". Get it, Ava.

"Is that my work husband grinding on my work nemesis?'

Janine and Gregory are cute together. Too bad he has a GF.

I am kind of shocked that Amber and Gregory are still dating. She's lasting longer than Taylor.

Lawd, Ava, Taylor, Amber. That Gregory is a bad bish magnet.

It's cute how Jacob runs on his toes like a kid...but who taught him how to cross the street? Anyone??  Anyone?? Bueller????

You know, Ava gives Janine a hard time, but we've seen her take Janine under her wing a few times now. She would never admit it, but I think she secretly likes her.

Now, regarding Ava's boyfriend. Ava said he's been dating her for 5 years, but she's only been dating him for two. My question is, "Which two?" She's constantly coming on to Gregory and she was trying to hack into Chet Hanks' Instagram last episode, so was she dating the baller for the first two, the last two, two in the middle, or two nonconsecutive years?  Inquiring minds want to know.

Edited December 14, 2022 by LydiaMoon1

[Welshman in Ca]

On 12/8/2022 at 12:17 PM, DearEvette said:

There are still some public school districts that have their students pledge allegiance to the flag.  Lots of lawsuits dating  back to the 40s up to just several years ago  have been filed in various places regarding the 'One Nation Under God' clause in the pledge.  And yet it persists.

As does "in god we trust" as the majority of Americans think it's been on money forever when it wasn't put on paper notes until 1957 although it was originally put on coins in 1864, still not forever.

[bybrandy]

One nation Under God wasn’t added to the pledge until 1954.  And I just skipped that bit during school as I’m not religious but my friend was very religious but German growing up so she said only the one nation under God bit. So between under we said and contentiously objected to the full pledge.  

[mostlylurking]

On 12/8/2022 at 12:14 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

On 12/8/2022 at 8:31 AM, Height-Nonchalance said:

Good episode but can we talk about Gregory's casual outfit?  What was with that gold chain?  Do people still wear those things?

And he definitely needed a coat.

Yes!  I mean it’s December in Philly….it’s cold!  

I didn’t like the dancing between Janine and Gregory. I found it very awkward and cringey. It was nice of Ava to invite Janine out with her and her boyfriend. Erica is a good friend too.

Everyone shipping Janine and Gregory and I’m over here drooling over Barbara’s sweater!  Where can I get one?!

[driver18]

On 12/8/2022 at 5:24 PM, KarenX said:

Ok. I love her. Love her.

I HATE that she is the principal. HATE. I don’t understand this. It undermines the rest of the show for me, which is a sweet sad funny relationships comedy that actually is making pointed, relevant critiques about public policies, and there is Ava. And the sexual harassment stuff just isn’t funny. I don’t believe that character would do that either. It’s perplexing that this is in the show.

I wish there were some other role for her. If you need an out of it, unfairly in the principal job character… whatever the janitor is doing could have been perfect for an unqualified leader.

I taught high school, so I don’t know what kind of other people are around at elementary school that could be Ava. PTA president? Education consultant? School nurse? 

I guess you were lucky at the high school you taught. My sister has taught at several different schools -- living different places, and she had a few different principles who were like Ava. She also told me that her fellow teachers talk about this show, and generally love Ava because they've had to deal with terrible principles in various ways like Ava.

[Rebecca berkowit]

On 12/8/2022 at 1:14 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I was very surprised to see him leading students in singing religious songs (i.e., mentioning Jesus) in a public school.  I understand that the bulk of the student body is likely Christian (despite the ecumenical nature of the cookies), but promotion of a particular religion seems off.  I guess it happened because he's not "officially" there, just visiting, so there's no oversight.

And actually, that's something that I would have expected Jacob to be opposed to in a public-school setting!

And he definitely needed a coat.

I thought the religious song was a little inappropriate as well.  Maybe it’s an elective club and they just meet at school?  Or maybe they sang songs from other religions as well and we just didn’t see that?  Or maybe, I guess, this is just the culture of the school and the neighborhood, so nobody really objects.  The show does a really good job of leaning into the culture and not othering or exoticizing it.  I too thought they were going to do a token Jewish deal with Jacob.  There’s one in every Christmas episode, it seems, where the characters go out of their way to point out that one of them is Jewish and then go back to not making a big deal of it the rest of the year.  (See, for example, the cringe-worthy Hanukkah Armadillo bit on Friends, where Ross’s OWN SISTER acts like he’s the only one who cares about that holiday.). I’m so glad they didn’t do this.  There were some stars of David scattered around as decorations, but it was mostly Christmas stuff.  

On 12/8/2022 at 5:24 PM, KarenX said:

Ok. I love her. Love her.

I HATE that she is the principal. HATE. I don’t understand this. It undermines the rest of the show for me, which is a sweet sad funny relationships comedy that actually is making pointed, relevant critiques about public policies, and there is Ava. And the sexual harassment stuff just isn’t funny. I don’t believe that character would do that either. It’s perplexing that this is in the show.

I wish there were some other role for her. If you need an out of it, unfairly in the principal job character… whatever the janitor is doing could have been perfect for an unqualified leader.

I taught high school, so I don’t know what kind of other people are around at elementary school that could be Ava. PTA president? Education consultant? School nurse? 

Unfortunately my daughter attended a public school with a principal exactly like Ava.  Cared only about how she looked and what the teachers and parents could do for her.  Very spoiled.  Did not like children.  She keeps rising in the system, as they do.  

[Rebecca berkowit]

On 12/8/2022 at 10:45 PM, bettername2come said:

Quinta looked fantastic in that dress and the straight hair. Her hair always looks great, but the change was fun. When Gregory and Janine were dancing after they'd stopped doing middle school dance moves and were dancing like 2 adults in a club, I was struck by how unawkward it seemed. 

I loved Janine's present to Mr. Johnson, especially because he appreciated it. I was glad when Ava invited Janine to keep partying with her and her boyfriend. It was nice, but also had that edge of Ava evaluating people and deciding they're good enough to be seen with her, plus her desire for people to not waste an outfit.  

I thought the dancing was pretty intimate and hot.  Definitely hard to go back to being co-workers after someone is grinding against you and his hands are roaming up and down your body like that.  I was surprised they went there.  But I haven’t been in a club in forever, so I guess maybe people just dance like that now.  With total strangers and coworkers.  

[love2lovebadtv]

On 1/5/2023 at 9:00 PM, Rebecca berkowit said:

I thought the dancing was pretty intimate and hot.  Definitely hard to go back to being co-workers after someone is grinding against you and his hands are roaming up and down your body like that.  I was surprised they went there.  But I haven’t been in a club in forever, so I guess maybe people just dance like that now.  With total strangers and coworkers.  

I thought their dancing was pretty intimate, too. They had settled into a nice friendship with just a few awkward moments. I can't see how they could go back to that now. 

Hey Janine, how was your break? Nice grind, huh?

On 1/5/2023 at 8:52 PM, Rebecca berkowit said:

I thought the religious song was a little inappropriate as well.  Maybe it’s an elective club and they just meet at school?  Or maybe they sang songs from other religions as well and we just didn’t see that?  Or maybe, I guess, this is just the culture of the school and the neighborhood, so nobody really objects.  The show does a really good job of leaning into the culture and not othering or exoticizing it.  I too thought they were going to do a token Jewish deal with Jacob.  There’s one in every Christmas episode, it seems, where the characters go out of their way to point out that one of them is Jewish and then go back to not making a big deal of it the rest of the year.  (See, for example, the cringe-worthy Hanukkah Armadillo bit on Friends, where Ross’s OWN SISTER acts like he’s the only one who cares about that holiday.). I’m so glad they didn’t do this.  There were some stars of David scattered around as decorations, but it was mostly Christmas stuff.    

Most of the decorations and other holiday practices I've seen in public schools is more secular than Christian so I was surprised to hear "Jesus Christ." Realistically, there would be a significant number of Abbott students whose families don't celebrate Christmas and/or wouldn't want their children participating in certain Christmas-themed activities at school. Agree re: the way the show leans into the culture. Philly has a significant Black Muslim population and I have seen at least one Muslim student in the show wearing a khimar. 

I assumed Jacob's reason for not liking Christmas had to do with his discomfort with commercialization. But I saw a few comments about thinking he was Jewish - did he ever express any religious leanings before this episode? 

Edited January 10, 2023 by love2lovebadtv

[Catfi9ht]

I'm really behind on this show, but I thought Gregory looked like Calvin from Scrooged dressed as a Christmas tree. 😂