S01.E08: Bad Guy

[jewel21]

Quote

Vince’s judgment is compromised when a harrowing rescue of two siblings triggers emotional memories of the night his daughter died in a car accident.

Airdate: 12/09/2022

[Danielg342]

If Vince had fallen down with that car over the bridge, I might not have liked it because Billy Burke is pretty much this series' MVP...but, at least there would have been some drama.

Everyone knows Bode is going to survive that tumble. So I don't see the point of that final scene.

All it does is take away from what was a nice story where the fire crew had to deal with compromised leadership with a situation that hit far too close to home for Vince and Bode.

A situation you wondered why Vince and Bode were there in the first place. Forget about real life protocol- how many times has Hollywood told us that when a situation hits too close to home for a responder of any kind- medical, fire, police- that they need to step out and let others take charge?

OK, so Manny was compromised too...but he didn't have a horse in that race.

(He just had horses in other races...har-har-har...)

The positives is that at least this show is willing to explore situations where things don't exactly go to plan, meaning the drama has the potential to not be as predictable as it could be in Hollywood. We also have top notch actors who will draw you into the story.

The negative is that we're still dealing with a show that has no idea where the right balance is for the drama to keep it from being overwrought and cliched. Some moments- particularly with the Riley flashbacks- the drama hit the mark. Other times it delved into cringe territory.

It's a refrain I've said before about this show- there's potential, they just need to realize it.

Well, they're running out of time to realize it. Tick tock.

[Artsda]

There's no way Bode dies, so I'm good with him jumping into saving Sam. Because  at least both kids made it. 

I'm guessing that phone call Eve made is going to cause a lot of IA looking into everyone.

[Dowel Jones]

What I want to know is why no one was doing anything to get Sam out of the car the entire final 10 minutes.  Sure, it was hanging there, but it's not going to get better.  

I was hoping Olympic diving champion Gabriella would rush over to the edge of the bridge to see the car impact the water, and then hold up signs that said 9.5, 9.6, 9.5.   Yes, I'm evil.

Manny reminds me of a line from a Ian Tyson cowboy song:  "Never hit 17 when you play against the dealer; you know the odds won't ride with you..."  (Summer Wages).

2 hours ago, Artsda said:

I'm guessing that phone call Eve made is going to cause a lot of IA looking into everyone.

Not to mention Sam's parents witnessing the entire debacle and contacting an attorney.  How stupid does that Captain have to be to say "Unlike my Chief, I'm not going to make you any promises."

[SonofaBiscuit]

I hate the Manny gambling/money issues storyline. It came out of nowhere and now his daughter is mothering him, which is annoying.

Uh, for these people being firefighters, there isn’t always a lot of urgency. Last episode, they got a respiratory distress call, and Jake and Gabriella were responding to the call just strolling on in while Gabriella was going on about her dad’s credit card debt. Like hurry the fuck up, someone can’t breathe! This episode two kids are hanging off a bridge and there Gabriella is again crying about her dad. Not to mention a bunch of other firefighters standing around chatting while these kids in the car wait to fall over the edge. If I was their parents, I would have been pissed!

The flashback scenes to Riley’s death were just way over the top. Yikes, some of the acting there was not great.

That was gross that Vince’s brother tried to make a move on Sharon. WTF is wrong with you, man?!

Yeah, we all know Bode isn’t dying in that fall. Hopefully his kidneys make it out OK - Sharon will be needing one soon.

I think this was the worst episode so far…I didn’t care for it at all!

[Madding crowd]

I hate the way Vince was and is to Bodie. If my husband hated my son I would not be with him. I also noticed the lack of urgency and I would ask if there are any rescue workers not in the middle of a crisis If I were the parents. Vince’s brother making a pass at Sharon seemed to come out of nowhere.

[possibilities]

I thought touching Sharon's arm was a far cry from making a pass. I thought her leaping to that conclusion said more about her than him.

Maybe we were supposed to see it that way, but it seemed ambiguous enough, to me. It could also be a comforting gesture, if the people involved were moderately sane and not utterly absurd soap opera tropes.

[Lady Calypso]

6 hours ago, SonofaBiscuit said:

Uh, for these people being firefighters, there isn’t always a lot of urgency. Last episode, they got a respiratory distress call, and Jake and Gabriella were responding to the call just strolling on in while Gabriella was going on about her dad’s credit card debt. Like hurry the fuck up, someone can’t breathe! This episode two kids are hanging off a bridge and there Gabriella is again crying about her dad. Not to mention a bunch of other firefighters standing around chatting while these kids in the car wait to fall over the edge. If I was their parents, I would have been pissed!

Yeah, Gabi is consistently not focused on the job and talking about personal shit when she should be super focused on, y'know, learning, watching, listening and following orders. She is constantly going to talk to Bode while working and she's also always questioning her superiors. Not in a good way, like her asking clarifying questions, but asking if they're sure they're doing their job right. Yes, your dad is compromised. No, you don't need to constantly bring it up if he's still doing his job. He wasn't distracted like Vince was, so stop questioning him, especially in front of others. 

I really don't like her. I want to, but she really bothers me. She whines a lot.

But then again, Vince and Manny were doing the same thing. Those parents had to watch two superiors squabbling at each other about the safety of their children. Stop that. And Vince was so reckless, he was about to jump head first in the car to save Sam with no plan.

Bode will be fine, so the cliffhanger isn't much of a cliffhanger. Max already had one character killed off in the last month; they're not doing it here, as he's the star. But if it brings Vince/Sharon/Bode family scenes, I'm all for it. I figured there'd be a point where Bode would be in danger to help reconcile Bode and Vince, so I guess that time is now. 

Vince's brother seems fine. I'm annoyed they had him...I guess try to come onto Sharon. I was fine with them leaving that character more morally grey than outright bad.

I still like this show, one of the better ones of the season, but they need to cut the soap opera plots in half.

The flashbacks were mostly fine, but very confusing and Kevin Alejandro needed to ask for 50% less lens flare and the weird editing stuff with the blurred movement shots. I don't think Bode and Riley's car accident makes much sense, either. So are they saying Riley burned in the car or did she fly out of the car and die? Because she had her seatbelt off and door open so she should absolutely not be in the car.

[Madding crowd]

5 hours ago, possibilities said:

I thought touching Sharon's arm was a far cry from making a pass. I thought her leaping to that conclusion said more about her than him.

Maybe we were supposed to see it that way, but it seemed ambiguous enough, to me. It could also be a comforting gesture, if the people involved were moderately sane and not utterly absurd soap opera tropes.

He also said something about his name being first on her list if she left Vince or something like that. I agree just touching her arm is not odd in itself.

[theredhead77]

The arm touching without anything else wasn't out of line. The touching combined with feeling out if she was having an affair with Manny then mentioning his ranking if she left Vince had implications. Good for Sharon for telling him to GTFO.

The cliffhanger is unnecessary, we all know Bode will survive.  Still digging this show, ridiculous storylines and all.

[jabRI]

11 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I hate the way Vince was and is to Bodie. If my husband hated my son I would not be with him.

Agreed, they seem like the perfect couple and if Bode hadn't turned up, likely he'd never be spoken of again.  Crappy parents both of them.

[SunnyBeBe]

When a fire truck is behind me, I sorta try to get out if its way.  Lol. Couldn’t those people scootch over a little into the grass?  
 

Why didn’t they say anything to calm the guy in the car when he woke up?  Constantly saying stay still, we’re helping you, don’t move, etc., but there was nothing.  
 

For a man to be having that many flash backs ……he may need in patient help.  
 

I did like the part where the fire fighter calls for help and says the people  in charge here have lost it. On most shows, people don’t have the nerve to do that.  
 

Edited December 11, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[Noah Body]

Quote

Everyone knows Bode is going to survive that tumble. So I don't see the point of that final scene.

Agree.  Unless Max Thieriot (Bode) decided to leave the show and didn't tell anyone, then he is safe.  Remember, the car fell vertically, front first.  The back window was removed, as long as he is not holding onto the car, either he will slide out or push himself out  of the back.  Now if the car fell on its' side or turned around prior to hitting the water, then Bode will either be badly injured or dead.  But the way the car fell, yeah he will come up to the surface and there will be a great sigh of relief.  May get yelled at for taking such a risk, but on the whole everyone will be glad he survived the fall.

As for Manny and his gambling, sure why not.  No hint of his gambling issue prior the last minute of the last episode.  So last episode he was up $20G and instead of walking away, he kept betting and lost the house.  Bright side, no more mortgage payments.

[circumvent]

5 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

When a fire truck is behind me, I sorta try to get out if its way.

Worse, why was the traffic blocked on both sides? The bridge was closed but those who had already passed that point would be able to move, the others would be able to turn around, make room. Lazy writing.

18 hours ago, possibilities said:

I thought touching Sharon's arm was a far cry from making a pass. I thought her leaping to that conclusion said more about her than him.

Maybe we were supposed to see it that way, but it seemed ambiguous enough, to me. It could also be a comforting gesture, if the people involved were moderately sane and not utterly absurd soap opera tropes.

I think the intention would have been to imply he was making a pass but the way it was acted/directed was so bad, it missed whatever point they were trying to make. His hand never really touched her arm. She pulled away and freaked out for basically nothing. The director should have jumped in and said: wait until he touches you, pause for a second, than you can freak out. 

Speaking of bad acting, I don't know who the actor is but Sharon, like others in this show, overacts. She dials every dialogue up to 1000 and it does not match the actor on the other side. She is too perky for someone who has kidney disease. I recently lost a cousin to the disease and it is not pretty. Kidney failure can compromise the heart, so the energy more or less vanishes. Sharon acts like she is just having a cold. Obviously, I don't know the details and am not a doctor but she is not playing a sick, terminal person well.

**Shallow note: WTF was she wearing? The wardrobe department is failing whatever fashion they are trying to promote there.

I liked that they addressed Vince's trauma but it was disproportionate to the situation. If they want a hook to make Vince and Bode reconcile, then they could have Bode be in an actual accident, actually almost die, for Vince to relive the whole thing with the daughter. The way it was done, it was unprofessional. Having a fire chief basically crying and out of control in a volatile situation would be grounds for a big disciplinary hearing, I think.

Meanwhile, the most interesting part of the show - and its premise - gets pushed so far into the background, it doesn't even need to be there. What makes this show different from other in the genre, is the inmates as fire fighters angle. Bode is a privileged kid that acts like he is in a camp, and the focus is solely on him. He doesn't even act like an inmate so I don't see how this show is actually keeping up with the proposed storyline 

[Danielg342]

10 hours ago, jabRI said:

Agreed, they seem like the perfect couple and if Bode hadn't turned up, likely he'd never be spoken of again.  Crappy parents both of them.

That's the heart of what's wrong with this show, apart from what @circumvent said in that the show is forgetting its original premise.

Vince and Sharon are perfect casting. The show was obviously going for a husband and wife that looked and felt like they were weathering some pretty intense storms, but they've decided they're going to fight for each other.

They nailed it with Billy Burke and Diane Farr. The chemistry is effortless and they're both great at showing the toll their lives have taken on them but also displaying the resiliency to get through it.

...but, the writers let them down. This kind of relationship story requires attention to detail and the writers are not giving it that.

You could write the same thing about the other actors on this show. Manny and Bode have a great relationship on this show but the writers would rather give Manny a cliched gambling problem and make Bode Edgewater's version of Superman than taking the time building a great story where the ex-convict helps the current convict navigate through the murky waters and become the man he's destined to be.

We complain about Gabriella not asking questions on the job...what about Bode? Sure, like Gabriella, Bode's family worked in firefighting, but that doesn't mean they have the knowledge to work the job.

Fire Country is being held back because it's lost its focus. They will need to find it by the end of the season or else the audience will run out of patience with the show.

[cameron]

On 12/10/2022 at 9:38 AM, Madding crowd said:

I hate the way Vince was and is to Bodie. If my husband hated my son I would not be with him. I also noticed the lack of urgency and I would ask if there are any rescue workers not in the middle of a crisis If I were the parents. Vince’s brother making a pass at Sharon seemed to come out of nowhere.

Is Vince really Bode's natural father?  Sharon said something in this episode that he has a different last name than her's, which leads me to the conclusion that he isn't.  Also she always refers to Bodie as her son and the fact the Vince really seems to hate him.

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, cameron said:

Is Vince really Bode's natural father?  Sharon said something in this episode that he has a different last name than her's, which leads me to the conclusion that he isn't.  Also she always refers to Bodie as her son and the fact the Vince really seems to hate him.

It was explained in episode 2 that Bode changed his last name after Riley died.

[cameron]

14 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

It was explained in episode 2 that Bode changed his last name after Riley died.

Thank you.  Must have missed that.

[b4pjoe]

51 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

It was explained in episode 2 that Bode changed his last name after Riley died.

36 minutes ago, cameron said:

Thank you.  Must have missed that.

As did I. Why did he change his last name?

[Daff]

1 hour ago, b4pjoe said:

As did I. Why did he change his last name?

Bode was always trouble in Vince’s eyes. Bode was the screw-up, Riley was the Angel who could do no wrong. When she died, Vince spewed venom at Bode, told him to get out, never show his face again. He moved away, changed his name, then really went off the rails and landed in jail. That’s the story we were told. 

[Daff]

On 12/11/2022 at 7:49 AM, Danielg342 said:

That's the heart of what's wrong with this show, apart from what @circumvent said in that the show is forgetting its original premise.

Vince and Sharon are perfect casting. The show was obviously going for a husband and wife that looked and felt like they were weathering some pretty intense storms, but they've decided they're going to fight for each other.

They nailed it with Billy Burke and Diane Farr. The chemistry is effortless and they're both great at showing the toll their lives have taken on them but also displaying the resiliency to get through it.

...but, the writers let them down. This kind of relationship story requires attention to detail and the writers are not giving it that.

You could write the same thing about the other actors on this show. Manny and Bode have a great relationship on this show but the writers would rather give Manny a cliched gambling problem and make Bode Edgewater's version of Superman than taking the time building a great story where the ex-convict helps the current convict navigate through the murky waters and become the man he's destined to be.

We complain about Gabriella not asking questions on the job...what about Bode? Sure, like Gabriella, Bode's family worked in firefighting, but that doesn't mean they have the knowledge to work the job.

Fire Country is being held back because it's lost its focus. They will need to find it by the end of the season or else the audience will run out of patience with the show.

I like your story ideas better. You should write the rest of the season. 
As for attitudes in emergency situations, no first responder worth his/her salt would be having these side conversations/concerns. And there is only one person in charge of the scene-everyone knows who that is and respects that.  It’s clear they don’t want a consultant, because that person would nix the “drama” while dealing with the emergencies.  

[FnkyChkn34]

On 12/13/2022 at 11:12 AM, Daff said:

Bode was always trouble in Vince’s eyes. Bode was the screw-up, Riley was the Angel who could do no wrong. When she died, Vince spewed venom at Bode, told him to get out, never show his face again. He moved away, changed his name, then really went off the rails and landed in jail. That’s the story we were told. 

I think Sharon even made a quick comment about how they thought he was dead because she never heard from him again.  I presume that may have meant that she looked for him, and she couldn't find him because he changed his name, but that wasn't said outright; that's just my guess.  Vince also said that Bode could never follow orders, and Bode said he followed one really well... when Vince told him to leave and never come back.  Bode took it even a step further with the name change.

[Nialla]

Getting a legal name change takes some time and money. I'm assuming it was legally done since that's the name he's using in prison, but someone spiraling as bad as he seemed to be is generally not going to be thinking about a name change. Did he steal the money to pay for it?

[Just my 2 cents]

On 12/13/2022 at 10:12 AM, Daff said:

Riley was the Angel who could do no wrong.

I found it interesting that Riley the perfect Angel was so distraught over a short secret relationship that ended, she attempted to jump out of a moving car.  What state of mind do you have to be to say I'm going back to talk to this jerk that is ignoring my texts and calls, but jumps out of a moving vehicle.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Just my 2 cents

[meeeechiganman]

Earlier in the season, they had to repel down a cliff to get to an injured person, yet that person was near a shoreline of a lake, Hello?  Couldn't they have used a Rescue boat?  and this episode was ridiculous if a fire truck is stuck in a back up, order all cars ahead of them OFF THE DANG Road to the side, allowing Rig to proceed to the Accident. DUH?   This show Cracks me up. 

[Danielg342]

On 12/13/2022 at 11:23 AM, Daff said:

I like your story ideas better. You should write the rest of the season.

Thanks. No joke, one day I want to have my own TV show and then you can see for yourself if I'm actually better than the writers of Hollywood. :P

That said, I think what really gets me about this show- and Hollywood in general- is how often Hollywood repeats the same things and routinely falls for the same cliches but hardly anyone ever notices it. Bode falling into the water is just one example- I don't have actual stats but it wouldn't surprise me if 99.9% of the time when Hollywood has a central character involved in midseason episode where the character could die, the character lives (this would include those shows where characters could be revived via some means, because you know the character will get revived quickly). Otherwise, we wouldn't have a show.

I don't believe that observation is revolutionary. Audiences know it and I'm sure other Hollywood writers are aware of that trope. You'd think that, by knowing what the audience expects, they'd do better than just playing those expectations straight.

...but, here we are, with Fire Country opting for its midseason cliffhanger to have Bode fall off the bridge and make us wonder if he's going to make it. Well, of course he will...come January, we may first see him in a hospital bed, maybe in surgery just to give everyone some angst, but he'll pull through.

I'll grant that- for now- FC isn't so bad that they're doing what Gotham did, because in this episode, there's a bit more to unpack (and anticipate) than just the cliffhanger. In Gotham, a show about the origins of Batman, those writers went to the well of putting characters like James Gordon and Bruce Wayne in peril many times, with that peril being the focus of the episode and without that peril being some kind of special circumstance (such as the first time Wayne and the proto-Joker butted heads). I wrote several times on this very forum that the writers are insulting our intelligence by constantly using "will Gordon/Bruce make it?" as a plot because we know what the result will be- those two characters are key parts of Batman lore, so you can't have a "Batman origins" story where neither character finish the story.

So, FC's got a ways to go before they're plunging to those depths...but it's clear they're repeating the same mistakes. Mistakes that, by now, I would have thought people in Hollywood would know better about- especially when they've been repeated for so long.

[cameron]

4 hours ago, Just my 2 cents said:

I found it interesting that Riley the perfect Angel was so distraught over a short secret relationship that ended, she attempted to jump out of a moving car.  What state of mind do you have to be to say I'm going back to talk to this jerk that is ignoring my texts and calls, but jumps out of a moving vehicle.

I agree.  Thought that she was mixed up mentally or on drugs or both.

[Daff]

12 hours ago, Just my 2 cents said:

I found it interesting that Riley the perfect Angel was so distraught over a short secret relationship that ended, she attempted to jump out of a moving car.  What state of mind do you have to be to say I'm going back to talk to this jerk that is ignoring my texts and calls, but jumps out of a moving vehicle.

State of mind of a toddler? And it was a stupid move on Bode’s part to make a grab for her-he could have just slowed the truck and let her jump. 

[Daff]

11 hours ago, meeeechiganman said:

Earlier in the season, they had to repel down a cliff to get to an injured person, yet that person was near a shoreline of a lake, Hello?  Couldn't they have used a Rescue boat?  and this episode was ridiculous if a fire truck is stuck in a back up, order all cars ahead of them OFF THE DANG Road to the side, allowing Rig to proceed to the Accident. DUH?   This show Cracks me up. 

Where I live, lakes don’t experience tides. Sorry, couldn’t help it. However, is there no Coast Guard (or marine rescue) in CA?

[circumvent]

13 minutes ago, Daff said:

State of mind of a toddler? And it was a stupid move on Bode’s part to make a grab for her-he could have just slowed the truck and let her jump. 

But then there would be no place to put all the angst, the conflict, anything

[Daff]

13 minutes ago, circumvent said:

But then there would be no place to put all the angst, the conflict, anything

I’ve not endured such “me-centric” angst since trying to watch “30 Something”! Surprisingly, I’m lasting longer here, maybe because of the few good actors. 

[Danielg342]

I've personally never liked the Riley story on principle. Whether or not Riley counts as being "fridged" or is simply a "Lost Lenore" is debatable, but there's no question that Riley falls under the worn out cliche of a female character whose only role in the story is to die so that the other characters have something to brood over. Granted, this is Bode's sister we're talking about and we're shown how the angst is affecting the whole family and not just Bode (though Vince seems to have been hit harder by Riley's death than Sharon has), but it still falls very much under this cliche.

The presentation hasn't done anyone any favours, really. Riley seems to have blown up into this kind of cloud that doesn't just hang over the Leone's heads but also the entire town of Edgewater. Yeah, her death would rock a small town but it feels over the top. She wasn't murdered or anything- she died from a car accident. A tragedy, but something they can move on from.

The worst of being affected by Riley's cloud is Vince, who treats Bode like he murdered her (which he didn't do and Vince should know that). I have to wonder how he's psychologically fit to be Fire Chief if he can't keep a level head when asked to do a straightforward (though challenging) rescue operation. I also have to ask how Vince avoided being in that kind of situation until now. It's not like Riley died the week before or even the week before the series started. Vince has had other rescue operations- he even had one earlier this season- and Riley didn't affect him then.

So why now?

Perhaps that's the storyline they're going with- there are questions about Vince's fitness for his job because of Riley's death- so we still have to see how it plays out, but so far it feels over the top and ridiculous.

Certainly how Vince is treating Bode is out of line with what the show wants us to believe. I understand that Bode, Vince and Sharon are all supposed to ultimately reconcile and we'll likely still get that, but we only see Sharon and Bode trying in this regard, the latter awkwardly. Vince does not seem to want to do it at all.

This even though he told his friend, the priest, that "God's plan kind of sucks".

It's also been asked before how Vince is still married to Sharon and I have to echo that. If he's so messed up about Riley that he disowns his own son, wishes he was dead (saying it to his face, no less) and has to be egged to see him again, I don't understand how Sharon could put up with that for all those years. Perhaps the choice to have them stay married- no matter how much of a joy it is to see them on screen together- was the wrong one, because it doesn't mesh with what we're shown and told on screen.

I have to wonder, too, how much the show needed Riley to die to have a premise for the show. Fire Country is sold on the idea of "the bad boy returns home". We were supposed to believe that Bode had so many issues with the town that he felt the need to leave and never go back. Yet Riley seems to be the only issue that Bode has.

How much can you really milk that for a series? After the family reconciles, where does the show go from there?

Bode should have been just a straight up "troubled teen" who caused the town numerous problems that culminated in him holding up the liquor store at gunpoint. Riley could have been the opposite, the idyllic angel who gets good grades, has a great moral character and is now looking to follow Vince and Sharon in their footsteps as a firefighter. The Donovans were glad Bode is gone- so much so that they changed their last names after Bode left- so when Bode comes back, they have to rectify with this reality.

Sharon decides, albeit reluctantly, that she wants to welcome Bode back but Riley and Vince are not so sure. However, they'll all have to work together, so they'll all have to find a way to make it work.

Cue the, uh, fireworks.

You can still have Manny take Bode under his wing and back Bode up in his disputes with the family. Riley and Jake could still be together (maybe even married by now), so Jake frequently sides with Vince and Riley. Sharon and Eve both become "the voices of reason" and Eve helps Sharon when she can't figure out how to resolve the latest family dispute.

As for Gabriella...sorry Stephanie Arcilla, but Riley is now in that role, so we don't need Gabby anymore.

I don't know if that would work better than what we are getting but what's clear to me is that this show didn't organize itself properly and it's losing its focus as a result of that.

[possibilities]

They really squandered the promise of the pilot, which made it seem like the family drama was one track but they were also selling the idea of the prison program itself, and Bode was just one of the many characters on that track.

It doesn't make sense what they are doing now. ANd they're really piling it on with Sharon's kidney failure, too. They could have made THAT the motive for reconciliation-- that they need a kidney donor and lo and behold! The prodigal son is the only match! But they aren't doing that, either. They might wind up having him donate, but they are not setting up the reconciliation being dependent on that, since Bode and Sharon both seem to want it, even before that issue was floated.

[circumvent]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

hat they need a kidney donor and lo and behold! The prodigal son is the only match!

AND they could make a much interesting story about how Bode wouldn't be allowed to donate his kidney because he is an inmate. I don't know how it is in CA but some states don't allow inmates to donate anything - maybe unless it is blood. But they could still make it hard in the context of our "justice" system. I think the Unique Perspective For a Show ship has sailed 😒

[Danielg342]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

It doesn't make sense what they are doing now. ANd they're really piling it on with Sharon's kidney failure, too. They could have made THAT the motive for reconciliation

That's all it would need, with "finding a donor" being a storyline, maybe even the first storyline. Sharon realizing her own mortality would be reason enough for her to believe she needs to get the family back together because, at her age, how many more "scares" will she get before it's all said and done?

1 hour ago, circumvent said:

I think the Unique Perspective For a Show ship has sailed 😒

I still think it's early enough that it could be salvageable. If by the end of the season they still haven't figured things out, then it may be time to bail.

[izabella]

19 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

The worst of being affected by Riley's cloud is Vince, who treats Bode like he murdered her (which he didn't do and Vince should know that). I have to wonder how he's psychologically fit to be Fire Chief if he can't keep a level head when asked to do a straightforward (though challenging) rescue operation. I also have to ask how Vince avoided being in that kind of situation until now. It's not like Riley died the week before or even the week before the series started. Vince has had other rescue operations- he even had one earlier this season- and Riley didn't affect him then.

So why now?

Perhaps that's the storyline they're going with- there are questions about Vince's fitness for his job because of Riley's death- so we still have to see how it plays out, but so far it feels over the top and ridiculous.

It could be because Bode is back now.  It's been non-stop family angst ever since he showed up.  It's bringing up old wounds and old memories, old fights and hurts, stuff he'd probably tried to compartmentalize away.

Quote

Certainly how Vince is treating Bode is out of line with what the show wants us to believe. I understand that Bode, Vince and Sharon are all supposed to ultimately reconcile and we'll likely still get that, but we only see Sharon and Bode trying in this regard, the latter awkwardly. Vince does not seem to want to do it at all.

Being angry at Bode and blaming him for Riley's death is probably easier for him than feeling the grief and loss of his daughter.   If he stops being angry at Bode, he has to face his grief. 

Also, I think Vince maybe feels responsible for Riley's death, too, like the father of the brother and sister in the car.  That dad said the accident was his fault because he let them drive together in a separate car instead of all going together.  Maybe Vince also feels guilt for something he thinks he should have done the night Riley died.  Whatever it is he doesn't want to face, it's unfinished business, and he won't drop his attitude with Bode until he finishes it for himself.

[Danielg342]

@izabella Those are fair points. Mileage will vary on this one, but I'm not sure how many favours it does for Vince the character. We'll have to see where it goes.

[FnkyChkn34]

8 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

@izabella Those are fair points. Mileage will vary on this one, but I'm not sure how many favours it does for Vince the character. We'll have to see where it goes.

Are we supposed to like Vince, though?  Maybe all these issues are the reasons why the audience isn't supposed to like him.  Every show needs complex characters with issues that don't do them any favors.

[possibilities]

I definitely don't like Vince. The way he did an end run around Sharon and got her suspended from her job when she didn't want that, to me says he's learned nothing and is just a control freak who likes to have his family in line. 

[Danielg342]

2 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Are we supposed to like Vince, though?

Well, I do. :P OK, maybe it's more about liking Billy Burke and the unreal chemistry he has with Diane Farr than any actual love of the character.

It is a thorny situation. Burke is a main cast member, so at the very least his character has to remain someone we want to see every week. How unlikeable can Vince get before the audience says "I hate him too much, get him off my screen!" Is Vince interesting enough as a character (like Oswald on Gotham) that even if we dislike him, we still care about his stories?

[cameron]

41 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

Well, I do. :P OK, maybe it's more about liking Billy Burke and the unreal chemistry he has with Diane Farr than any actual love of the character.

It is a thorny situation. Burke is a main cast member, so at the very least his character has to remain someone we want to see every week. How unlikeable can Vince get before the audience says "I hate him too much, get him off my screen!" Is Vince interesting enough as a character (like Oswald on Gotham) that even if we dislike him, we still care about his stories?

I think that both he and Sharon are scruffy looking.

[FnkyChkn34]

2 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

Well, I do. :P OK, maybe it's more about liking Billy Burke and the unreal chemistry he has with Diane Farr than any actual love of the character.

It is a thorny situation. Burke is a main cast member, so at the very least his character has to remain someone we want to see every week. How unlikeable can Vince get before the audience says "I hate him too much, get him off my screen!" Is Vince interesting enough as a character (like Oswald on Gotham) that even if we dislike him, we still care about his stories?

I think he's compelling enough for now that I want to see him, but I don't have to like him.  He's haunted, he's troubled, so he's slightly sympathetic - but for how much longer?  He also makes bad decisions, goes behind his wife's back on the regular, and is a bit of a jerk.  So, we'll see!  

It's always good when an unlikeable or borderline character is played by a good actor or an actor we like.  Then we don't know what to think; that alone keeps us tuning in for a long while.

[Raja]

On 12/15/2022 at 10:03 AM, Daff said:

Where I live, lakes don’t experience tides. Sorry, couldn’t help it. However, is there no Coast Guard (or marine rescue) in CA?

Not since the Baywatch lifeguards got old.

[mythoughtis]

On 12/10/2022 at 9:40 AM, possibilities said:

I thought touching Sharon's arm was a far cry from making a pass. I thought her leaping to that conclusion said more about her than him.

Maybe we were supposed to see it that way, but it seemed ambiguous enough, to me. It could also be a comforting gesture, if the people involved were moderately sane and not utterly absurd soap opera tropes.

She definitely could have laughed it off and treated it that way ( patting his hand and making a funny comment) rather than going ballistic and making family gatherings even more awkward.  It wasn’t as if he did anything overly overt 

[FnkyChkn34]

2 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

She definitely could have laughed it off and treated it that way ( patting his hand and making a funny comment) rather than going ballistic and making family gatherings even more awkward.  It wasn’t as if he did anything overly overt 

He did though - he said to call him first when she was ready to cheat on her husband.  His brother.  That's overtly over the line.

[NJRadioGuy]

The technical advisor for this show must have taken the day off. A small car like that weighs very little (comparatively speaking) and could be easily secured to the far side of the bridge, or even dragged away from the precipice. Figure about 3500 pounds spread across 20 people, less if there's a snatch block pulley or two (for a double or triple-line pull) if someone on the scene had one. But even if not, the lines and chain would have easily sturdied that load, and they could have easily cut up some timber for cribbing if they didn't have any on the truck that they could bring. There are tie-down points under every vehicle to secure it to the ship, car-carrier, or train car. Many cars (but not all) also have rated recovery points on the back. 

Also sirens have loud public address modules, so switch the siren into PA and order the car in front to move over, lather rinse, repeat. A bunch of ridiculous and useless plot points in furtherance of some less-bad family dynamics.

[Dowel Jones]

I think the technical advisor's expertise is limited to pointing out that the wide part of the hard hat goes in front, that sort of thing.

[Leeds]

On 12/10/2022 at 8:51 AM, Lady Calypso said:

Yeah, Gabi is consistently not focused on the job and talking about personal shit when she should be super focused on, y'know, learning, watching, listening and following orders. She is constantly going to talk to Bode while working and she's also always questioning her superiors. Not in a good way, like her asking clarifying questions, but asking if they're sure they're doing their job right. Yes, your dad is compromised. No, you don't need to constantly bring it up if he's still doing his job. He wasn't distracted like Vince was, so stop questioning him, especially in front of others. 

I really don't like her. I want to, but she really bothers me. She whines a lot.

 

 

I think she bothers me more than she might because she's apparently named and modelled on St Gabby from Chicago Fire.

 

6 hours ago, NJRadioGuy said:

The technical advisor for this show must have taken the day off. 

The show has a technical advisor?  You could have fooled me.

[CoyoteBlue]

On 1/6/2023 at 10:44 PM, NJRadioGuy said:

The technical advisor for this show must have taken the day off. A small car like that weighs very little (comparatively speaking) and could be easily secured to the far side of the bridge, or even dragged away from the precipice. Figure about 3500 pounds spread across 20 people, less if there's a snatch block pulley or two (for a double or triple-line pull) if someone on the scene had one. But even if not, the lines and chain would have easily sturdied that load, and they could have easily cut up some timber for cribbing if they didn't have any on the truck that they could bring.

Or in a pinch, just have half a dozen grab onto the ass-end while Bode was scrambling out. Or throw a rope into the car for Bode to grab onto and the car would have fallen out from under him. I know they tried to say something about the "undercarriage being compromised", but come on... the entire frame couldn't have crumbled. And even if the posts on the bridge couldn't hold the entire weight because they were made of paper mache,  they could have held long enough to stabilize the teeter totter. They had plenty of cribbing which, for some reason, they put under the other, flattened stable car with no one in it.