S02.E07: Arrivederci

[jeansheridan]

1 hour ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

1 hour ago, AstridM said:

There’s a lot more to a great life than money, imo.

Money can’t buy happiness.  But it sure makes being sad a lot easier! 

As much as I appreciate Daphne 's emotional intelligence, she knows her husband does sketchy things to make money. Her ethics are self-serving. I guess I sort of like her because she is not at all neurotic.  A decisive character is fun to watch. Whereas Harper and Ethan are drags, truly.  And while Harper may have a job that supports women (but possibly rich white collar women?) she has the same advantages as Daphne. She's educated, beautiful, rich. Her Puerto Rican background doesn't seem to be a huge impact (and I wonder if it has been for Aubrey in her career?). Maybe she hustled more to get a luxurious life but I don't get that impression from her. She never once really thinks about money which indicates to me she has usually been comfortable.  Maybe not mega-rich but never worried about rent or paying bills.

[Anela]

Harper was ready to end her marriage, because she thought her husband was no longer attracted to her. She was also unhappy for personal reasons. Daphne didn't seem that happy to me. Both couples were judging each other - it wasn't one-sided. 

*edit. Typos galore.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Anela

[jeansheridan]

18 minutes ago, Anela said:

I don't know why so many people hated Harper, but then I'm more like her. I can't leave it alone, if something is wrong. 

She came off like a pill in the first scenes. Stiff on the boat, reluctantly taking the proseco,  stiff clothes. Then when she found the condom she played an annoying passive aggressive game with Ethan rather than being direct. Then she flirted with Cameron! Games. She is one of those people who thinks she is candid and direct but isn't.  She doesn't know herself. Neither does Ethan. But Daphne knows herself and that's kind of relaxing. 

[SlovakPrincess]

Daphne is - for now - mostly content with the trade-offs of her marriage (she puts up with Cameron's infidelity and general obnoxiousness, but there's still real affection in the marriage and she loves her kids and certainly loves the money).   A shaky foundation for the future, but for now it's working for her.  

I think Harper and Ethan have always had this kind of passive relationship, and they likely bonded over being serious, quiet people who never had much reason to argue.  Ethan earning a ton of money, and the couple spending more time with people like Cameron, created tension and revealed that these two don't communicate.  

[Anela]

I would probably like Daphne, because she's easy to be around. I am more like Harper, when something is wrong. Harper can be mean - I thought it was shitty that she turned around and started gossiping about her, when she got back from that overnight trip. But she had also been pushed into a trip she didn't want to take, by her husband and these people she wasn't keen on. I still thought it was sad that Daphne opened up to her, and all she could do once she was back, was shit on her again. 

I wasn't going to watch past episode one, because I didn't want to see a bunch of rich people being rude to each other, and unhappy couples just dealing with each other. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Are we supposed to believe that Ethan and Daphne hooked up on their walk to Isola Bella, and now that he and Harper are "even" they can wipe the slate clean and start all over? That's disgusting and not believable.

It may be disgusting but it does happen. I know of a situation which involved getting with a spouse's sibling.

Quote

Cameron acted like he did not want to talk to his kids. If he is faking his life eventually his marriage is going to implode.

I think Cameron and Daphne have silently agreed to keep up their pretenses because it's mutually beneficial to them. She knows he cheats regularly and he knows at least one of the kids isn't his.

Quote

the gay mafia

It's an expression I've heard American gay men use in reference to their ethnically-diverse social circle. I think Mike White was just being cute in having it apply to an actual group of gay men in Sicily which included some with mafia ties.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Joimiaroxeu

[carrps]

5 hours ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

Rumor has it that the actors playing Jack and Daphne hooked up in real life

I know they're just characters, but eeew.

[peeayebee]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I always assumed the pre-nup was only about Greg not getting anything if he was unfaithful because, IIRC, the bit of Greg's side of the phone call we heard was just something like "she's got that damn pre-nup," which I interpreted to mean that the prenup only hurt him, not Tanya.
But, sure, it could be a 2-way pre-nup, and Greg was annoyed that they'd have to deal with all the shenanigans of hiring Niccolo and taping it  etc. etc. 

I'm confused (again). I thought the prenup included the clause that if TANYA had an affair, Greg would get money in a divorce. Was this something from the show or just from postings/speculation on this site?

However, when Tanya was on the yacht talking to Portia (or maybe after), Tanya gasped, "The prenup!" That seems to support the idea that Greg wanted her to have an affair so he could divorce her and get money.

6 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

Whereas, Valentina goes from mysterious to just ... cringeworthy.  It wasn't even touching to see her more vulnerable side, it was just pathetic because she blatantly used her position as employer to try and please the women she liked.  

I'm another viewer who didn't like Valentina. First we see her being ... what's the word?... pushy, strict, mean to her employees. Yes, everyone needs to be on their toes in the hospitality industry, but she was too much of a mean boss. I think we were meant to see that her whole life revolved around being a hotel manager, rather than having a personal life, but I found her unlikable from the start.

Viewers were amused when she said Tanya looked like Peppa Pig, but what a rude thing to say. I could imagine Armond (S1) saying such a thing behind someone's back, but Valentina said this TO Tanya, and I find it unbelievable that she would think that's an acceptable thing to say to someone.

And then she was infatuated with Isabella, which is fine until it interferes with everyone's work. Somehow Isabella was oblivious to Valentina's interest, but still, Valentina moved people around for her own romantic benefits. And of course she gave Mia Giuseppe's job.

2 hours ago, Anela said:

That could have been another reason to have the mafia involved. That young English guy was supposed to kill the only other person that knew who she was with. At least, it seemed that way.

I suppose that's possible, but I don't think Jack was going to kill Portia. It was enough for him to keep her away from Tanya so the "gay mafia" could carry out their plan. No one knew Jack would drunkenly reveal pertinent details to her. It was assumed that she liked him and the good time he was showing her, and that she would never be suspicious, even after returning and discovering that Tanya was dead or whatever.

[peachmangosteen]

I never took the Peppa Pig thing as the horrible dig a lot seemed to. First of all, Peppa Pig is kind of awesome lol. Tanya  was wearing all pink. I feel like that was the second funniest line of the season, and funnily enough it wasn't even written by Mike White.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I'm confused (again). I thought the prenup included the clause that if TANYA had an affair, Greg would get money in a divorce. Was this something from the show or just from postings/speculation on this site?

However, when Tanya was on the yacht talking to Portia (or maybe after), Tanya gasped, "The prenup!" That seems to support the idea that Greg wanted her to have an affair so he could divorce her and get money.

The idea that the prenup went both ways and that if Tanya was unfaithful Greg could get divorce money was never discussed or even implied on the show, so it's not likely. 
But neither does the script explicitly say whether or not the prenup required Tanya to be faithful, so theories have had free reign. And, as far as I know, Mike White has not refuted those theories.

From this episode, when Jack leaves Portia alone with his phone on the table and she uses it to call Tanya:

• [PORTIA] I feel like something bad is happening.
  [TANYA] What do you mean, "bad"?
  [PORTIA] I don't know. I just have this really weird feeling that something bad is gonna happen.
  [TANYA] To you or to me?
  [PORTIA] Jack got really drunk last night and he was saying how like, um, Quentin has no money, and he almost lost his house, and he's about to come into this giant windfall or something, and Jack is helping him.
  [TANYA] That doesn't make any sense.Look, I... I'm on his yacht right now. He has money.
  [PORTIA] Yeah. I just have this... this really creepy feeling right now.
  [TANYA] Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Something weird did happen last night! 
  [PORTIA] What?
  [TANYA] I was in Quentin's bedroom, and there was this photo of a guy on his desk. And it looked just like Greg.
  [PORTIA] Greg? There was a picture of Greg?
  [TANYA] Well, it couldn't be Greg. I mean, he doesn't know any gay guys in Sicily. But then he did insist that we come to Sicily. The prenup. The prenup. The prenup!
  [PORTIA] What... what about the prenup?
  [TANYA] If we divorce, he gets basically nothing. But, if...
  [PORTIA] If what?
  [TANYA] If I... Die? Oh. Oh, my God.
  [PORTIA] Um, Tanya.
  [TANYA] Oh, my God. Portia, meet me in Taormina. We gotta get the fսck outta here.

Edited December 17, 2022 by shapeshifter

[Pine]

I wasn't going to watch anymore White Lotus after season 1, but it was a bonding moment with a sad relative.  OMG, we binged watched and it was actually quite good, but, I am so sad that Tanya died.   F those Mafia Gays!  

[smartymarty]

I can't imagine that the prenup, if it did have a sin clause, then gave all or an enormous part of Tanya's money to Greg. *She* had the money, not him. More common is a sin clause against the less-well-off spouse, such that he can't divorce to be with his new girlfriend AND claim half his ex's fortune.

Given that, and that it absolutely appeared that the plan was to kill Tanya, why have the whole party/cocaine/sleep with Nick montage at all? They didn't even need to take her so far away first, since they seemed intent on doing her in just off the coast of the hotel. Maybe a director just really, really wanted to edit together that wild party scene.

And is the idea supposed to be that Ethan is now newly-attracted to Harper merely because someone else was? That seems farfetched.

[peachmangosteen]

3 hours ago, smartymarty said:

And is the idea supposed to be that Ethan is now newly-attracted to Harper merely because someone else was? That seems farfetched.

That and because he did a little something-something with Daphne. They made Harper/Ethan into another Cameron/Daphne, getting off on that kind of thing. Now, whether they'll have to keep up with it (like Cameron/Daphne do) to keep the fire there or if this was a one time thing, who knows.

[chocolatine]

2 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

That and because he did a little something-something with Daphne. They made Harper/Ethan into another Cameron/Daphne, getting off on that kind of thing. Now, whether they'll have to keep up with it (like Cameron/Daphne do) to keep the fire there or if this was a one time thing, who knows.

At their last dinner, Daphne toasted to "next year in the Maldives" so maybe this will become an annual tradition of sorts - a dream vacation with a bit of partner swapping.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, smartymarty said:

I can't imagine that the prenup, if it did have a sin clause, then gave all or an enormous part of Tanya's money to Greg. *She* had the money, not him. More common is a sin clause against the less-well-off spouse, such that he can't divorce to be with his new girlfriend AND claim half his ex's fortune.

Given that, and that it absolutely appeared that the plan was to kill Tanya, why have the whole party/cocaine/sleep with Nick montage at all? They didn't even need to take her so far away first, since they seemed intent on doing her in just off the coast of the hotel. Maybe a director just really, really wanted to edit together that wild party scene.

Maybe something like that, but mostly I think Quentin was kind of punting.
And Maybe Greg and/or Quentin were never totally set on swindling Tanya vs. offing her. 
We heard Greg on the phone (presumably to Quentin) grumbling about Portia being there and that darn prenup. 
Clearly they weren't masterminds, and clearly Quentin liked to throw parties.

[aghst]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

At their last dinner, Daphne toasted to "next year in the Maldives" so maybe this will become an annual tradition of sorts - a dream vacation with a bit of partner swapping.

I don't get the sense that Harper would be interested in spending time with Cameron and Daphne again.

She called him "fucking idiot" that morning and Ethan tried to drown Cameron that day.

Yet at night they don't object to dining again with Cam and Daphne and they just go along with the toast.

If Ethan did mess around with Daphne, he's probably not eager to spend more time with them either.

[peeayebee]

20 hours ago, smartymarty said:

Given that, and that it absolutely appeared that the plan was to kill Tanya, why have the whole party/cocaine/sleep with Nick montage at all? They didn't even need to take her so far away first, since they seemed intent on doing her in just off the coast of the hotel. 

This bugs me as well. I would love an explanation from Mike White. One thing I came up with is that Quentin wanted to give her a good send-off. Before they kill her, give her a wonderful night with Nicollo, not to mention the night at the opera. 

Quote

And is the idea supposed to be that Ethan is now newly-attracted to Harper merely because someone else was? That seems farfetched.

Hard to tell how their marriage will be from now on, but since Cameron in college would go for the girls Ethan was interested in, turnabouts fair play in Ethan's mind. He (perhaps) had sex with Daphne. He believed that Cameron had sex with Harper, so now Ethan takes her back. It's all an alpha dog thing.

16 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

We heard Greg on the phone (presumably to Quentin) grumbling about Portia being there and that darn prenup. 

Maybe Greg was grumbling about that because he wanted to be with Quentin but couldn't risk violating the prenup.

[WearyTraveler]

I haven't seen this mentioned in this thread, so I'll go ahead and post my theory on Greg.

In S1 he was already taking weird calls and I found it weird that he didn't run away from Tanya after she basically stalked him by following him to the pool and he caught her. I mean, under normal circumstances, most people, would find that behaviour too clingy if not outright dangerous after one date.

I also found it strange that he appeared to have a health issue related to respiratory problems (all the coughing), and yet he was able to swim laps upon laps without a hitch.

This season two things caught my attention that no one else has mentioned. Greg said to Tanya, during their last breakfast at the hotel, that he'd already been married three times before, and Jack said to Portia, on two occasions, that his "uncle" and friends were always hanging around and partying with rich old ladies.

Add to that the comments Cameron and Daphne made in the first episode regarding the European aristocrats having these luxurious estates and looking down on people when they had no money to even look after their properties, and the fact that the "gay mafia" only showed up after Greg left. Then, it's not too much of a stretch to imagine that Greg and his longtime boyfriend (since the days they met on the ranch) had been running a scam where Greg married the rich women, brought them to Sicily and then Quentin approached them, became friendly with them (as he did with Tanya because they would find him not threatening sexually or financially, as he appeared to be very rich), encouraged them to pour their hearts out to him (again, same thing he did with Tanya "tell me everything"), and then enticed them to have wild parties in his house where the women would be filmed having hard drugs and sex with someone other than their husbands (someone did mention in this thread there appeared to be a red camera light in Quentin's room).

Greg would then use that evidence to divorce the women and get a nice settlement that would help Quentin maintain his luxury estate. Even Greg's illness could be fake, to get that extra bit of sympathy from the women, and he could have gotten "cured" many times, after fake going to the doctors his new wife could afford him to consult.

With Tanya, one if two things could have happened, either her prenup was better at protecting her than his previous wives' prenups by stating that if she were the one having an affair Greg would still get very little compensation (seems likely that Tanya's lawyers knowing her would do something like that and there was a lot of emphasis on the prenup in the show), or Greg is tired of the game/thinks he won't be able to play it much longer as he is getting older and decides that instead of getting one slice of cake, they should murder Tanya and get the whole thing, thus allowing them to finally get all the money they need. Or a combination of both.

Jack did tell Portia that Quentin was supposed to come into a windfall, and that his need to hang around with rich, mature ladies would stop.

So, that's my Greg/Quentin/Gay mafia theory. Tanya was the one that would put an end to the years of setting up rich, lonely ladies so they could live it up in Sicily, and "retire", so to speak.

Anyway, I decided to watch this show after hearing much hooplah in several podcasts about their season finale and binged both seasons in a couple of days.

I think it's funny and entertaining. Nothing majorly groundbreaking, but entertaining enough to binge when there's a chance

 

[WearyTraveler]

50 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

This bugs me as well. I would love an explanation from Mike White. One thing I came up with is that Quentin wanted to give her a good send-off. Before they kill her, give her a wonderful night with Nicollo, not to mention the night at the opera. 

Well, they need to get close to her, but once they do, if there's any suspicion as to the manner of her death (accident vs. murder), they would be some of the first people the police look at.

So, if they go through with the parties and everything else, it gives them an opportunity to show that Tanya was wild and careless, and also a reason why the police might find drugs in her system, which would, in turn, support an accidental drowning proposition.

"Oh, yes, we had a party with her and she kept going off into another room to do so much cocaine! She was high off her rocker most of the time we spent with her, and insisted we bring her to her hotel last night, which we did. She must have gone back into the water on her own after we dropped her off. I feel so bad, we should have insisted on accompanying her to her room. What a shame!"

[peachmangosteen]

Great, well-thought out theory @WearyTraveler. I think you almost certainly put more thought into that whole thing than Mike White did lol.

[Pine]

Not only an alibi, but Greg had to make certain no one in Sicily recognized him, so he had to leave quickly.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 12/17/2022 at 4:50 PM, peeayebee said:

And then she was infatuated with Isabella, which is fine until it interferes with everyone's work. Somehow Isabella was oblivious to Valentina's interest, but still, Valentina moved people around for her own romantic benefits. And of course she gave Mia Giuseppe's job.

I don't think this can be stated 100%.  What if Isabella is just really smart, and used the way Valentina felt about her to get back in her good graces, and then get her fiance back to work with her?

Mia did the same, but was more obvious about it.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Hanahope]

There absolutely was some connection between Greg and Quentin, though its hard to know if it was continuous over years, or just recently "rekindled", and/or whether it was gay or not.  but Greg definitely arranged with Quentin to contact Tanya, show her a 'good time', then kill her so Greg could inherit the money.  One can hope that finding all the dead bodies on the boat, along with others seeing Quentin with Tanya hanging out, the police will put it together without having to track down Portia.  who shows up to Manolo (the guy left at the palazzo), the police or Hugo (the guy that jumped overboard)?  if the police search the palazzo, do they find the photo of Quentin and Greg and put that piece of the puzzle together?  or, as others have speculated about corrupt police, does Hugu/Manolo pay the police off because greg will still pay them?  who gets the palazzo?

I'd say its one thing if some "normal" tourist dies and another when a half-billionaire tourist drowns next to a yacht with 3 shot bodies.  I don't think Greg gets his millions without some sort of investigation, especially if tanya had some other heir (like a niece or nephew - or she's been married before, do we know she has no kids?).

its also hard to know for sure if Ethan and Daphne had sex.  some sort of hook-up sure, but Ethan might have been satisfied knowing he "could" have sex with Daphne, that she offered, and maybe they made out like Harper said she did with Cameron.

I'm also pretty sure that at least the older child is Daphne's trainer.  just the way the whole conversation went about the trainer, then Daphne saying "here's a photo of him", "oops its my kids" and the oldest has the main features of the trainer, blonde, blue eyed.  its entirely possible/likely Daphne determined early on she got pregnant, and made sure she slept with Cameron to make it at least possible he was the father.  they both know the oldest kid probably isn't, but neither is going to do anything about it (as divorce is expensive - and Cameron may not find another agreeable wife).  

of course, the real star of the show was Sicily, how beautiful it is.  i hear tourism is already up due to the show.  i'm adding Sicily to my bucket list as well.

 

[Madding crowd]

I do think that if Greg is some kind of gigolo who meets and marries many women, they should have found someone either handsome or charming in some way. A grumpy, unattractive land bureau guy might be someone’s cup of tea but most insanely rich women could do better. Greg also didn’t seem the type a handsome , cultured gay man fell for but he could have been more of a catch when he was younger.

[tvfanatic13]

On 12/14/2022 at 9:54 AM, shapeshifter said:

At 31:18 Niccoló gracefully and effortlessly climbs up the ladder affixed to the yacht, adjacent to the boat he has just moored there. 
Too bad for Tanya that she missed that. 
Although unless she took off her clunky, chunky, high heels, she could have still fallen off of the ladder and fatally hit her head and fallen into the water.

Am I the only one who missed that her head hit the boat when she fell and had to replay it after reading about it?

I also did not see it the first time, and wondered why Tanya wasn't just swimming. Took me 2 times to see/hear it. 

[J-Metal Girl]

I was thinking Tanya might get in the little boat with Niccolo and tell him, "Whatever they're paying you, I'll pay more." I guess what actually happened was more Tanya-like, though. 

Was Abby DiGrasso with another man when Dom called? That would really be something, if after all that, neither Albie nor Dom got to be with the women they wanted.

God, Ethan sucks. I did laugh when he went, "It's NOT FUNNY." Marital spats can really make you feel like you're five again.

Glad there'll be a Season 3!

Edited December 27, 2022 by J-Metal Girl

[shapeshifter]

13 hours ago, J-Metal Girl said:

I was thinking Tanya might get in the little boat with Niccolo and tell him, "Whatever they're paying you, I'll pay more." I guess what actually happened was more Tanya-like, though. 

Ooo, now I want to see a version (maybe they could add an animated alternate ending) in which Tanya does "get in the little boat with Niccolo and tell him, 'Whatever they're paying you, I'll pay more,'" but Niccolo's English is not much better than the Captain's English (which would be a great comedic call back) and he misunderstands her and . . .
I don't know, maybe puts down the gun and throws her overboard and her shoe gets tangled in seaweed and drowns her?

 

13 hours ago, J-Metal Girl said:

Was Abby DiGrasso with another man when Dom called? That would really be something, if after all that, neither Albie nor Dom got to be with the women they wanted.

I thought that too! Her voice on the phone sounded like a Bedroom Voice.
But then I figured it was just the time difference maybe?

[chocolatine]

On 12/26/2022 at 7:35 PM, J-Metal Girl said:

Was Abby DiGrasso with another man when Dom called? That would really be something, if after all that, neither Albie nor Dom got to be with the women they wanted.

I didn't pick up on that, but now that you've said, I hope it's true. Dominic deserves a taste of his own medicine. I thought it was a cop-out that his wife was supposed to be less angry with him after Albie "put in a good word."

[Irlandesa]

3 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I thought it was a cop-out that his wife was supposed to be less angry with him after Albie "put in a good word."

I got the impression that this is something Dominic has done throughout their marriage and his wife eventually forgives him every time.  Maybe this time she had a stronger reaction but she's still probably a few infidelities away from actually pulling the trigger on a divorce.

[30 Helens]

I absolutely loved this season. I was sad to see Tonya go, because even though she was a hot mess, she was an entertaining hot mess, and Jennifer Coolidge played her to perfection. I also thought her death scene was very true to her character: her actions were shrewd, desperate, instinctual, messy, bold, yet also clueless. 

I think it’s very apparent that her marriage was a long con. As others have noted, there are numerous clues to this that started last season, and make sense in the light of this episode’s events. There is a lot of focus on the prenup in the discussion here, but I don’t think the details of the prenup matter, just that the fact of its existence. If they divorce, for whatever reason, Greg gets nothing. If he wants Tonya’s money, she has to die. So she had to die.

There was an image painted of Tonya in her last days, with many witnesses, of a reckless party queen who has sex with strangers and overindulges in every way. She has also done well to paint herself as mentally unstable, something Greg would expect. Such a person dying by accident, or even by “self inflicted” gunshot, would not draw a lot of suspicion. Drowning was likely the intent, but I think the bag contents showed they were prepared to wing it, if needed.

Obviously, the plan did not go as expected, and Greg’s ability to grab the money will not go as smoothly as planned. But I think he’ll get it— and he won’t have to share it, which may or may not be a good outcome for him. He was definitely still involved with Quentin, and I assume that was who he was saying “I love you” to on the phone before leaving the hotel.

Investigation will show that Tonya pulled the trigger, and with the drugs in her system, it won’t be hard to conclude she had a psychotic break. There’s no evidence of anything else happening— she even threw the rope and tape out of the bag, and those would not be strange things to find on a boat. And is anyone going to listen to Portia’s paranoid suspicions? Jack is long gone and would not corroborate her story, anyway. (Also, I’m sure the intent was not for Jack to kill Portia, just keep her out of the way. Portia dying on the same night her employer dies would just draw unnecessary suspicion.)

Greg, who has an alibi, will play the shocked, distraught husband and inherit. But my hope is he gets his comeuppance, and I kind of think that will happen next season, even as an aside to the main events. What I would really love to see is that Tanya made some kind of secret provision in her will, leaving the bulk of her money to the spa woman from season 1. That would be a bit of a reach, narratively, but I’ll take it.

[J-Metal Girl]

On 12/27/2022 at 9:18 AM, shapeshifter said:

I thought that too! Her voice on the phone sounded like a Bedroom Voice.

But then I figured it was just the time difference maybe?

Didn't Abby say something like, "I can't talk right now"? That's what made me suspicious.

Ha, I like your scenario with Niccolo and Tanya. Even when she does have a good idea, she can't catch a break.

Edited December 30, 2022 by J-Metal Girl

[TVMovieBuff]

On 12/11/2022 at 10:22 PM, SeanC said:

Tanya died as she lived, with absolutely no dignity.
 

Tanya died fighting back. She died trying to escape, not backing down!

[TVMovieBuff]

This season finale was great! Tanya went out with a bang, not just her head. She wreaked havoc on that boat. It might not be so easy for Greg to grab his inheritance. 

Jack did Portia a favor. I think he was supposed to kill her. 

I don't think there is any uncertainty about the father of Daphne's kids. It is reaching for drama to say it is her trainer. There is no reason to believe that.

I thought there was too much Lucia in this season but in the finale she didn't appear that much. 

Albie I think is one of those people who knows just what to say to calm someone. He & his mother probably have a special bond. He must be a true kind, wise soul.

It is up in the air whether Dom can change.  

Harper & Ethan will go on with their lives, and put this hellish week behind them. They will never see Daphne & Cameron again. I don't think there was any crossover sex but it showed Ethan things can happen. So regardless of what did or didn't happen, or almost happened. it is better left in the past. 

[AstridM]

2 hours ago, TVMovieBuff said:

I don't think there is any uncertainty about the father of Daphne's kids. It is reaching for drama to say it is her trainer. There is no reason to believe that.

Didn’t the actors recently confirm it in an interview?

[shapeshifter]

13 minutes ago, AstridM said:

Didn’t the actors recently confirm it in an interview?

One did; another thought the opposite.🤷🏻‍♀️

[AstridM]

5 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

One did; another thought the opposite.🤷🏻‍♀️

Ah, thanks. 

[jabxxp]

One thing that bothered me about the Albie/Lucia ending: why did she feel the need to sneak out before he woke up, proving that it was a scam?

He has her bank info, and international transfers don't necessarily post immediately. He may have at that point been able to cancel the transfer if it had posted but was still pending. 

She had no need to run out. Let him wake up with her in his arms, maybe give him another round in the morning, say thanks I'll visit you in LA, and leave him thinking that it's all real. Ghost him once he's out of the country.

Also: I'd imagine that Portia will also be a suspect in Tanya's death. She was seen leaving with her but wasn't on the boat back. And she's going to go on an international flight with no luggage, with all of her possessions abandoned in a hotel room. Jack disappeared, so no one to corroborate her story. (or will she blackmail Greg for a few million?)

[shapeshifter]

23 minutes ago, jabxxp said:

One thing that bothered me about the Albie/Lucia ending: why did she feel the need to sneak out before he woke up, proving that it was a scam?

He has her bank info, and international transfers don't necessarily post immediately. He may have at that point been able to cancel the transfer if it had posted but was still pending. 

She had no need to run out. Let him wake up with her in his arms, maybe give him another round in the morning, say thanks I'll visit you in LA, and leave him thinking that it's all real. Ghost him once he's out of the country.

Good point about the way Lucia left. 
When I saw it, I don't think I gave it a second thought. 
I assumed it was just an onscreen shorthand for the natural end of their "relationship." 
But looking at it as you described above——and perhaps also embedded in the onscreen shorthand/hasty goodbye——I think maybe Lucia thought she owed Albie an honest goodbye——without any blathering.

[SummerDreams]

I don't know what people see in this show. The storyline is basically a soap opera with more intense music and more outdoors.

[peachmangosteen]

Some people do like soap operas lol.

[Blakeston]

Some (very late) thoughts on our last looks at these characters.

Albie/Dominic - I think the only thing Albie was guilty of was gullibility. While he was certainly cunning in telling his father, "I'll tell Mom you've changed if you give Lucia 50K Euros," I don't think he was coldly selling out his mother.

I think Albie actually believed that Dominic changed - as evidenced by Albie talking to his mother before he knew whether Dominic would transfer the money. And maybe that's more gullibility on Albie's part. But I think Dominic actually did change, at least somewhat.

I got the impression that this was the first time that Dominic really confronted his sexual compulsivity, and his overall issues with women. And being able to turn down threesomes with Lucia and Mia (from the third night onward) seemed like a huge step for him. He also seemed to understand how badly he'd screwed up his life.

Can he be faithful for the rest of his life? I doubt it. But I think it's fair to say that he'd changed.

Daphne - We'll never know definitively if her trainer fathered any of her kids. But if Mike White wants us to believe that Cameron is the bio dad, then he would have to be an atrocious writer to have Daphne emphasize the trainer's blonde hair and blue eyes right before revealing a picture of her blonde-haired, blue-eyed offspring. And I don't think Mike White is an atrocious writer.

I've seen comments about Daphne staying with Cameron because she's trapped, or to keep up her image, or for financial reasons. However, I think she stays with him because she really loves him.

She doesn't like the cheating, but as she said repeatedly, she found ways to be okay with it. And she clearly gets off on manipulating him and pulling the wool over his eyes. I think she'd be bored out of her mind in a marriage without game-playing and drama.

Ethan - Ethan was just a very poorly written character. Up until the finale, he had absolutely no personality beyond 1) being a frustrated second fiddle to Cameron, and 2) communicating poorly with his wife and failing to satisfy her. I'm not buying for a second that he had what it takes to start his own company in the cutthroat tech world, and grow it into a big success.

Lucia - She was so good at manipulating Albie, but she made two major screwups. 1) Not getting cash upfront from Cameron, and 2) not continuing to play Albie. Her big dream was to go to LA! Albie would totally have flown her out there, and probably given her more money, too.

Portia - While it would be nice to think that Portia would arrive back in the US, speak out against Greg, and get him arrested, I could totally see her pretending that nothing ever happened. After what Jack told her, she believes it's in her best interests to keep her mouth shut. And we never saw anything to suggest that Portia cares about anyone other than herself - except making that one warning call to Tanya, which wasn't much. She really was like Tanya in so many ways.

The gay mafia (and Valentina) - After seeing the character Mike White wrote for himself in the movie Chuck and Buck, and the depictions of Armond in season 1, the gay villains in season 2, and Valentina, I think that Mike White has some real issues with his fellow queer people. He seems obsessed with depicting LGBTQ+ people as predatory.

Overall, I don't think this season was as good as season one. Season one made a very clear point about how rich white people are able to take advantage of working class people (particularly people of color), and not face consequences. This season was more of an unfocused rumination on deception and masculinity.

I also think the flash-forward in episode one was very misleading, in a cheap way. Rocco specifically told Valentina, "other guests have been killed."

None of the gay mafia were guests of the hotel, were they? And I don't buy that Rocco would just assume that they were guests, either.

I never considered Quentin and his pals as serious contenders to be the other dead bodies, for that reason.

[SummerDreams]

13 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Some people do like soap operas lol.

Not worth 7.9 on imdb though :P

[peachmangosteen]

7.9 sounds about right to me. Season 1 was maybe a 5 lol.

[TVMovieBuff]

On 1/22/2023 at 10:00 PM, jabxxp said:

One thing that bothered me about the Albie/Lucia ending: why did she feel the need to sneak out before he woke up, proving that it was a scam?

He has her bank info, and international transfers don't necessarily post immediately. He may have at that point been able to cancel the transfer if it had posted but was still pending. 

She had no need to run out. Let him wake up with her in his arms, maybe give him another round in the morning, say thanks I'll visit you in LA, and leave him thinking that it's all real. Ghost him once he's out of the country.

Also: I'd imagine that Portia will also be a suspect in Tanya's death. She was seen leaving with her but wasn't on the boat back. And she's going to go on an international flight with no luggage, with all of her possessions abandoned in a hotel room. Jack disappeared, so no one to corroborate her story. (or will she blackmail Greg for a few million?)

Thing about Portia is, who is going to tell the police all this? Jack told Portia to go back to the US and forget everything that happened. She will. The guys on the yacht are dead, one jumped overboard but he isn't going to say anything. Tanya's body was found and according to Albie "there is a yacht with a bunch of dead bodies". They will never get to the bottom of it. 

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, TVMovieBuff said:

Thing about Portia is, who is going to tell the police all this? Jack told Portia to go back to the US and forget everything that happened. She will. The guys on the yacht are dead, one jumped overboard but he isn't going to say anything. Tanya's body was found and according to Albie "there is a yacht with a bunch of dead bodies". They will never get to the bottom of it. 

Agreed.

But it could be fun in the next season if Portia has a cameo appearance in which she hints at what happened the last time she stayed at a White Lotus Inn.

[jabxxp]

The police would come calling for Portia, though. Her room was paid for by Tanya, Tanya's dead, and Portia ran away leaving all her belongings behind before any bodies were even found. 

I agree with Blackston about Daphne. I think she and Cameron really do love eachother, and that their PDAs were genuine. I think they get off on being "naughty". In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to know that Daphne booked that villa to give him a night to screw around. 

 

[TVMovieBuff]

18 hours ago, jabxxp said:

The police would come calling for Portia, though. Her room was paid for by Tanya, Tanya's dead, and Portia ran away leaving all her belongings behind before any bodies were even found. 

I agree with Blackston about Daphne. I think she and Cameron really do love eachother, and that their PDAs were genuine. I think they get off on being "naughty". In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to know that Daphne booked that villa to give him a night to screw around. 

 

Sure, her room was booked & paid for by Tanya but the hotel might not even know Portia's name. Who else knows her name maybe Albie? the hotel doesn't keep track of who every guest hangs out with. Tanya told Portia to lay low, so she wasn't mingling much. The dead guys on the yacht and Jack know Portia was on the yacht, and none of them are talking to the police. Most of the guests left the hotel and got on planes; scattered, as the yacht & Tanya were found.Even if Greg knows Portia's name he is going to want to say as little as possible to the cops. He wasn't around. Tanya had a series of assistants. 

The investigation will go nowhere. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by TVMovieBuff

[shapeshifter]

8 minutes ago, TVMovieBuff said:

.Even if Greg knows Portia's name he is going to want to say as little as possible to the cops. He wasn't around. Tanya had a series of assistants. 

If this was another type of serialized crime show, Greg would try to pin the murders on Portia. 🙃😉

[Trillian]

On 1/25/2023 at 2:43 PM, TVMovieBuff said:

Sure, her room was booked & paid for by Tanya but the hotel might not even know Portia's name. Who else knows her name maybe Albie? the hotel doesn't keep track of who every guest hangs out with. 

The investigation will go nowhere. 

I don’t know that’s necessarily true, at least, IRL. Every hotel I’ve ever stayed in Europe wants to see (and, I assume copy the info of) the passports of everyone who takes or gets a room. I think it may be part of the service and/or experience of these high-end resorts that the staff discreetly keeps track of who is where and with whom.  I stayed a fairly nice resort in the Caribbean once and was a little discomfited when one of the bartenders said “she went over to the clubhouse” when I wandered by looking for my travel companion. I didn’t ask him where she was and we were only 3 days in, but he knew who I was travelling with and where she had gone. It’s a little creepy, but it’s how you keep your guests safe and keep the non-paying public out. Certainly, Valentina kept an eagle eye out for anyone who didn’t “belong”. I’m sure the White Lotus corp knows Portia was there and what she was up to

[mytmo]

I think Jack was trying to save Portia by 1. leaving his phone and telling play by play what he was doing when he left the table and 2. dropping her off by the airport and leaving her with her phone.  I believe he developed feelings for her and really did not want her to be harmed whether by his hand or others.

I couldn't believe Tanya was so focused on going over the rail when there was an opening less than 10 steps back.  When I heard the soft thump I knew she was dead.  Mind you I have my tv volume on like 20. 

Greg was acting disgusted with Tanya in both seasons and we never saw the fishing buddies he was supposedly with in Hawaii (unless I missed it)?  The whole macaron episode showed his disdain for Tanya.

I agree Ethan has a type sexually from the porn he selected which is not Harper.  I think sexually he likes someone who he perceives is not on his level intellectually and a little more submissive which is not Harper.  However when he had sex with Daphne, the wife of his college friend/nemesis, gave him his personal comeuppance.