S03.E07: Impress the Parents

[DearEvette]

Quote

More meetings with family and friends lead to soul searching.  At a bar night a particular conversation at the pool party makes waves all over again.

[oldCJ]

Someone let Zanab know she is gorgeous and Colleen has nothing on her. And Cole’s apartment? 🤢

I do not see Alexa and Brennon lasting. She is not serious about long-term with anyone who can’t keep her in a lifestyle to which she is accustomed. The antisemitism of her own Jewish family making sure to say that there is no such thing as Jewish culture? Her father was really: We are Israeli! We are nothing like Jewish people. How dare you insult me like that. Oh but also we are Jewish and I’m gonna joke about cutting your dick with a giant knife. Haha. 

I was spot-on about the controlling vibe I was getting from Matt. He needs therapy stat.

Fun to see Andrew again esp when Nancy called him not smart to his face. Was he pouring eye drops all over his head? That man was sweaty. 

Seeing the other women from the show that we never got to see on their dates makes me wish there were more episodes of just people getting to know one another, like the show First Date. Even if the relationship doesn’t go anywhere, it’s entertaining to watch. More entertaining than watching a series of immature and jealous douches with serious issues treat smart and beautiful women like garbage, which is what this show ends up being. 

[Zuleikha]

The antisemitism of her own Jewish family making sure to say that there is no such thing as Jewish culture?

What he said is that their culture is Israeli and Judaism is a religion. A lot of Israelis are very secular. It's not anti-Semitic. Alexa said early on that she's very proud to be Jewish, and she's obviously talked about it with Brennon if he's considered converting. Israeli is a specific cultural background that is different from Ashkenazi-American culture. "Alfia" seems more likely to be a Mizrahi or Sephardi family name than Ashkenazi, too.

On a different subject, I have generally been pretty willing to not judge contestants negatively based on how they come across and to remember that there are a lot of POVs. But Matt scares me. I was actually shaking after that last scene with him and Bartise. It's not that he got upset that Colleen went out clubbing instead of coming home--if she didn't text or call him, that was rude, and I would be upset, too. But that he actually called Bartise and Nancy looking for Colleen? That he packed his bags? The degree of anger he has? It is not normal, and it is not okay. 

What happened to Matt with his wife cheating him after 10 years is horrible. I get that he has trust issues. But he needs to go through quality therapy and do some healing about it. Colleen needs to run and run fast, or at least make couples therapy a condition of going through with the wedding.

Zanab is sabotaging herself, and I do not get it. She thinks Colleen is the biggest threat to the relationship with Cole, but Zanab is her own biggest threat. If Cole could do it all over again, I'm sure he would be less honest with Zanab about how physically attractive he thinks Colleen is. But we have seen him tell Zanab over and over that she's beautiful, including telling her that she's beautiful without her false eyelashes and makeup. Cole cannot possibly love Zanab's appearance enough to make up for Zanab's own self-hatred. But what I do not get is why Zanab has so much insecurity given that she is very conventionally attractive.

[SoapDoc]

6 minutes ago, Zuleikha said:

But Matt scares me.

100%. He keeps flying off the handle so quickly and yelling he's leaving. Yeah, she should have called before going to the club. But really is that a breaking up with her offense? It was kind of a special night with a lot of her girlfriends from the pods there. It's not a complete surprise that they might have wanted to hang out a little longer.

9 minutes ago, Zuleikha said:

Zanab is sabotaging herself, and I do not get it.

I know, right? She's really pretty. But she keeps acting like she is hideous and huge and there's no way Cole could be attracted to her physically. I thought Cole was going to be a total jerk but besides the conversation with Colleen (which was ill-advised, and he has owned up to that), he has been pretty straight forward with Zanab that we have seen. She needs some therapy to help with her self-esteem.

I was a little confused as to why Bartise told his family about the abortion conversation. Given the fact that he is very close to his family, I would guess that he knew their opinions. Don't bring that up when they first meet! I'm not sure if it really is the family's business but either way, not during the first meet. 

Then, his speech before Matt called. Ugh! Nancy needs to run as well!

[Irlandesa]

6 hours ago, oldCJ said:

I do not see Alexa and Brennon lasting. She is not serious about long-term with anyone who can’t keep her in a lifestyle to which she is accustomed.

I suspect her family will keep her in the lifestyle she's accustomed to. 

Brennan is looking better looking to me the more we move on in the process. 

OMG, Matt is insane.  He spreads a version of a Malibu conversation that he heard but that did not take place.  Not in Colleen's mind.  Not in Cole's mind and not on screen.  He sent Zanab spiraling again sharing his "version" of events.  Then, he takes Cole's word for what happened over his own fiancee.  So now that Cole tells Matt what Colleen tried to tell him, he believes it?  Didn't his mother say "I'm worried about her breaking Matt's heart and I'm worried about Matt breaking hers?"  I always find it to be a red flag when a person's family is equally worried for their relation's partner as they are for their relative.

3 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

What happened to Matt with his wife cheating him after 10 years is horrible. I get that he has trust issues.

I don't think his ex cheating on him made him the way he is.  Insecurities?  Sure.  The way he chooses to express himself?  Unlikely.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if cheating were the method the ex chose to get out of a toxic relationship.  It's not great but it happens.

Bartise is pulling away and then he decides to get jealous of Andrew? 

They keep talking about how far away the wedding is but the "X Days until the wedding" doesn't match.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Irlandesa

[DearEvette]

So Alexa and Brennan now have a storyline.  Money disparity.  Her father is concerned about her marrying a poor.  But in all that I thought her dad was cool.  Brennan was great with her family, although the one brother kept giving him the stink eye.  LOL.

2 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

Zanab is sabotaging herself, and I do not get it. She thinks Colleen is the biggest threat to the relationship with Cole, but Zanab is her own biggest threat. If Cole could do it all over again, I'm sure he would be less honest with Zanab about how physically attractive he thinks Colleen is. But we have seen him tell Zanab over and over that she's beautiful, including telling her that she's beautiful without her false eyelashes and makeup. Cole cannot possibly love Zanab's appearance enough to make up for Zanab's own self-hatred. But what I do not get is why Zanab has so much insecurity given that she is very conventionally attractive.

This so much.  Yeah, I was pretty pissed at Cole too in Malibu. It is pretty insensitive to tell your fiance that some other woman is prettier.  But altho he was tactless about it he isn't wrong per se.  You can be in love and wildly attracted to your SO and still objectively think another person is prettier or more handsome.  I think he simply doesn't have the language to engage with Zanab the way she needs to in order to explain where he was coming from.  I think he was trying to convey that if looks were the first thing he saw, Colleen is his ideal  but because they are doing LIB where they are attempting to see if emotional connection is stronger than your normal physical knee jerk attraction, he is leaning into that with her.  She isn't hearing that.  All she can hear is 'Colleen is prettier" and that must of course translate into 'I want Colleen.' 

And then to rehash something they had put to rest.  I felt both Cole's and Colleen's confusion with Zanab and Matt's bringing that back from the ashes.  I even started to get exasperated with Zanab and I am generally more on her side that I was on Cole's.

22 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

OMG, Matt is insane.  He spreads a version of a Malibu conversation that he heard but that did not take place.  Not in Colleen's mind.  Not in Cole's mind and not on screen.  He sent Zanab spiraling again sharing his "version" of events.  Then, he takes Cole's word for what happened over his own fiancee.  So now that Matt tells what Colleen tried to tell him, he believes it?  Didn't his mother say "I'm worried about her breaking Matt's heart and I'm worried about Matt breaking hers?"  I always find it to be a red flag when a person's family is equally worried for their relation's partner as they are for their relative.

He is giving me unhinged.  Twice now we have seen him blow the fuck UP over relatively small things.  Just so out of proportion. That boy is not right.

My opinion of Bartise is in the sub basement.  Matt is a straight up psycho, but Bartise is a major asshole.  He is immature and has a dog in the manger attitude.  He treats Nancy like dirt but barges into her conversation with Andrew to make sure he has nothing to worry about and yet had no problems constantly telling her he is losing his physical connection to her.  He has the nerve to complain to Matt about how woe-is-me he is about Nancy's experiences and how he is not feeling it.  Newsflash Scooter she is a grown ass woman who has her own business and has lived a real life.  Her younger brother saw right through Bartise.  Now that was a well deserved stink eye.

Poor Nancy, I don't understand her, he is showing you everyday who he is.  Why are you still there? Shaina and Kyle broke up before the wedding.  It can be done.

I loved Raven's friends.  They had great questions.  I loved how they were like "Nah, this is not gonna happen.  SK's just a yes man and is gonna get his heart broken."  Nice to get a little bit about her background.  She is biracial but grew up with her white family.  And they don't want nothing to do with the wedding.  Hmm...  I am dying to learn more though. Again, I am really digging Raven more and more.  You can tell a lot about someone by their friends and I always love it when women have a great girlfriend posse and even better when they have been friends since childhood.  I wonder if the constant scenes of exercising in the earlier episodes was some editing manipulation.  She hasn't done any working out since they got back to Dallas.

[Petey1960]

Sure,Zanab has some insecurities, but what kind of fiancée keeps driving home to his woman how attracted he is to another woman? She is a 9/10 but wow Colleen is a 10/10! I’m shocked that she’s still with him. Whatever he thought, it was terribly insensitive,unloving and uncaring. He is as bad as Bartisse. He cut her where she hurts,no woman is above that kind of slur from a man who is supposed to love her and take care of not only her but her feelings as well. 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Petey1960

[Irlandesa]

5 minutes ago, Petey1960 said:

but what kind of fiancée keeps driving home to his woman how attracted he is to another woman?

I don't think he has kept driving this home.  He did it in Malibu but he doesn't appear to have repeated that mistake.

[Petey1960]

I thought Raven’s friends were rude and overly aggressive. There is a cordial way to ask questions and that wasn’t it. I was secondhand embarrassed for them. SK took it with the elegance that bespeaks that man. Raven comes across gold diggerish. Why does he need to pay half her rent while studying in California? If paying her rent would stop her from doing Bottle service(which is demeaning)then I get it. Otherwise, she is just looking for a payout. 

[Petey1960]

12 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I don't think he has kept driving this home.  He did it in Malibu but he doesn't appear to have repeated that mistake.

Perhaps it was the editing,but not only did he talk about his attraction to Colleen to her more than once( remember the 10/10 convo was separate from the original convo after she found out about the flirting),he was insensitive enough to tell her that she,Zanab was not his usual type but that Colleen is. My point is, why blame Zanab for feeling insecure when she has someone who is pushing those buttons?Sure, she needs to pick her chin up , but the villain here is Cole. 

[Zuleikha]

41 minutes ago, Petey1960 said:

Sure, she needs to pick her chin up , but the villain here is Cole. 

Why do you think there is a villain? Neither Cole nor Zanab is a villain. They are two people in an odd situation with flaws and weaknesses. They probably are not right for marriage with each other, but it does sound like they've had a lot of functional moments that haven't made it to screen.

From what we've seen, Cole has showered Zanab with compliments. Zanab often downplays them because of her insecurities (attributing his appreciation of her appearance to her makeup and then not responding well when he says that he finds her attractive without her makeup). We saw Zanab be insecure before the Colleen conversation.

Cole definitely screwed up, but he didn't initiate the conversation. Zanab did. And when she didn't get the answer she wanted, she continued to press him. It is not unusual for people to get defensive in that kind of dynamic. We have seen nothing that indicates that Cole spontaneously brings up finding Colleen attractive to Zanab. He has only spoken about it multiple times because Zanab brings it up... and at least once, he did tell Zanab that he now finds her more attractive than Colleen only to have Zanab completely pooh-pooh it. (it's also interesting to me that although Cole also ranked Raven a 10/10, Zanab doesn't seem to care at all about Raven. Zanab is laser-focused on Colleen, which again speaks to Zanab's insecurities.)

[EdnasEdibles]

11 hours ago, DearEvette said:

This so much.  Yeah, I was pretty pissed at Cole too in Malibu. It is pretty insensitive to tell your fiance that some other woman is prettier.  But altho he was tactless about it he isn't wrong per se.  You can be in love and wildly attracted to your SO and still objectively think another person is prettier or more handsome.  I think he simply doesn't have the language to engage with Zanab the way she needs to in order to explain where he was coming from.  I think he was trying to convey that if looks were the first thing he saw, Colleen is his ideal  but because they are doing LIB where they are attempting to see if emotional connection is stronger than your normal physical knee jerk attraction, he is leaning into that with her.  She isn't hearing that.  All she can hear is 'Colleen is prettier" and that must of course translate into 'I want Colleen.' 

I'm annoyed at both of them at this point.

Zanab just needs to realize that Cole has shown her who he is and she honestly doesn't like that so she should leave. But she keeps beating the dead horse which is making her look like she has 0 self esteem and it's making him angry.

Cole is doing himself no favors in this argument though. She keeps essentially saying "It bothers me that you told me to my face that you think other women are more attractive than I am" and and he keeps doubling down on that. Boy just needs to say "I am so sorry I made you feel like I don't think you're the most beautiful person here. I am so attracted to you and I think you are amazing and I never want you to feel like you're less than someone else. I am excited to marry you." but instead he's like "Is Colleen hot? Yes. Would I have hit on her at a bar? Absolutely. Does she look like everyone else I've always dated because she's my ideal physical type? Without a doubt. She's a smoke show. But you are also pretty - plus we have this emotional connection and that's something that I don't have with Colleen even though she is clearly the hottest woman I have ever seen. I don't want to talk to her. I just want to have sex with her. And you're also pretty! Plus, I kind of like talking to you. So why are you upset?" I'm exaggerating of course but he seems incapable of talking to her about this without also complimenting Colleen during the discussion. Like dude, shut up about Colleen! Just shut up about her!  

Bartisse is also garbage. He's so dismissive of Nancy and he's so damn dumb. I felt bad for Nancy when she was saying that she asked for a hug and he called her needy. He's been treating her like dirt and then when she was talking to Andrew and crying about how garbage she feels, he's on her being jealous. You have rejected her all week! Come on already. 

And Matt is crazy. Like straight up abusive manipulative crazy. 

[Rlb8031]

Several of these people are working out deep-seated childhood issues/trauma on a dating show on tv, rather than with their trusted therapist on a couch in an anonymous downtown office tower (and yes Matt and Zanab, I'm talking about you). 

Zanab lost her parents at an early age and was taken in by a white family who probably couldn't fully understand or help her cope with the issues that come from being "the brown girl" in a sea of otherwise non-descript blondes and brunettes. Those middle school years with mean girls are treacherous (some of them could give Putin a run for his money) and her feelings of inadequacy when it comes to her looks are pretty startling, considering that she is objectively gorgeous. She truly can't see how attractive she is, and unfortunately, Cole's methods of communication trigger her insecurities resulting in this horrible feedback loop of him saying things that are factual (I'm usually attracted to women like Colleen), her reacting to them, his denying that his factual statement reflects his feelings for Zanab and her not believing him. Seeing him, even slightly inebriated being willing to 1) accept that he might have triggered not just her insecurities, but also unwittingly caused issues with Matt and Collen; 2) be willing again to try to talk Zanab down off the ledge; and 3) go to Matt and not only explain but apologize for his behavior speaks a lot for his underlying nature. As was pointed out above, he needs to soft pedal the "Collen is hot" and focus more on the "why can't you see how hot you are?" but I hope that with some maturity, he'll get there.

Matt on the other hand is a lost cause. He is also dealing with a lot of trauma from the loss of his marriage, but what he doesn't talk about is that his ten-year relationship that ended two years ago started when he was in high school. He and his (cheating, backstabbing hussy of a...) wife got together literally when they were children, and at least some of their issues need to be processed through that lens. The fact that he can't look back on it and admit that they were both still growing up and developing, and that perhaps expecting that they wouldn't change from 15 to 25 might have been a little naive tells you everything you need to know about him. He needs some professional help to unpack that relationship put it in its appropriate context and find appropriate ways for releasing his anger about the issue that don't include getting drunk. Instead, he's just going to drink then react inappropriately. Dude, when Bartise is telling you that you're being ridiculous, you've got issues. Also, while I agree that as an adult, you should wander home by 2:30am on a Wednesday morning, since they are living in what is essentially a large dorm, I'm going to suggest that had she been hanging with one of the ladies chatting in their living room, it's not necessarily a problem that rises to the level of moving out. And if you are that insecure about what she's doing, go hang at the club with her rather than expect her to come home and watch you sleep.

[DearEvette]

I don't think Raven's friends were any more rude than any of the other family members that everyone met.  Nancy's brother came off and outright hostile to Bartise.  Alexa's dad brought out a set of knives -- all in fun & jokes ha ha --but the subtext was there.  Brennan's mother told Aexa that Brennan runs away at the first sign of adversity.  Cole's parents don't even want to meet Zanab.  I thought Raven's friends actually asked some good questions about support systems and what his expectations were and pointed out some personality gaps.

There is a cultural difference between them that 100% needs to be addressed, Raven even said her family is from the dirty, dirty South -- even within the US that is a cultural set all its own.  Meanwhile SK has 16 brothers and sisters and a family mired in patriarchal system and a dad who has more than one wife.  SK himself has rejected that, but again Raven has a right to be a little apprehensive about how the family could influence her life down the road. 

Frankly, I think SK should be more concerned about why her family isn't supportive.  In one sense her friends are correct that he does come off as a bit of a yes man and doesn't seem to be asking the harder questions or pushing back.  We saw a little bit of this in Malibu where Raven said she needed him to step up to the plate a bit more and show some initiative. And we saw it again when she threw out that she'd expect him to pay half rent on the Dallas place while he was living in California.  He just sat there all mumpty about it.  Why wouldn't he have flat out said 'Yeah, no, not happening.'

My takeaway with Raven's friends is -- they know her better than he does and based on what was probably a much longer lunch than what we saw, they know that she and SK are probably not compatible.

I like SK and believe that he is a nice guy.  But I am not ready to throw Raven under the bus because she doesn't come off as "nice" as him.  But personally his passivity would drive me nuts.

[CSunshine76]

I love Brennan, but he is in way over his head with Alexa’s family. He needs a nice country girl from Ft Worth that will fit in with his culture and family. The differences in cultures is just way too vast!

[Empress1]

15 hours ago, SoapDoc said:

I was a little confused as to why Bartise told his family about the abortion conversation. Given the fact that he is very close to his family, I would guess that he knew their opinions. Don't bring that up when they first meet! I'm not sure if it really is the family's business but either way, not during the first meet. 

I thought that was completely inappropriate. I don’t think it’s the family’s business, period; if Nancy and Bartise had to make that choice, it should be between them. 

14 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I suspect her family will keep [Alexa] in the lifestyle she's accustomed to. 

Agreed - in fact, I think they already do, whether she has a trust or they just pay for stuff directly. I don’t think it’s ever been the plan for her to live solely off whatever she makes. I do think they expected her to marry someone with a similar background, but I also think the family support is always going to be there.

Cole’s apartment … clean the toilet, dude.

[Zuleikha]

Alexa owns a branch of an insurance company (Allstate, I think). I Googled her a few days ago to try and find out what specific flavor of Jewish ethnicity her family is and saw a thank you from a local JCC for her helping support a Maccabee team. I think she makes a lot of her own money, which is why she wants a prenup. Too bad Nancy's not thinking along those lines as well! 

Brennon's an engineer, so I expect he'll be making plenty of his own money soon if he's not already. I don't know if water treatment engineers are a particularly poorly paid specialization, but engineers typically seem to make high incomes. I don't think finances are going to be an issue between them. 

I was fascinated by the discrepancy between Brennon's childhood poverty and the huge property his parents live on. I don't know if that's just country TX property prices or if they came into money at some point, but that gorgeous land with the beautiful pond seemed as luxe in its own way as Alexa's family house. 

[HerkyJerky]

10 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

Dude, when Bartise is telling you that you're being ridiculous, you've got issues.

THIS! LOL!  Btw, speaking of Bartise, his sister is the one that's HOT (not Colleen or Zanab).🤭😎

[Cramps]

10 hours ago, CSunshine76 said:

I love Brennan, but he is in way over his head with Alexa’s family. He needs a nice country girl from Ft Worth that will fit in with his culture and family. The differences in cultures is just way too vast!

As a Jewish woman who has been married for over twenty years to a man who grew up in another country who had never even met anyone Jewish until he went to college, I agree that they will most likely have to deal with some very difficult issues as well as numerous misunderstandings in the early days of their relationship. But if underneath that, their values about how to treat people and marriage really are similar, (which they must be to some degree, judging from the pods),and if they work at it and care about each other, it can work! 

(As you might imagine, I’m particularly enjoying watching them!) 

Edited to add: I love what we’ve seen of Brennan so far too! 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Cramps

[Irlandesa]

10 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

I was fascinated by the discrepancy between Brennon's childhood poverty and the huge property his parents live on. I don't know if that's just country TX property prices or if they came into money at some point, but that gorgeous land with the beautiful pond seemed as luxe in its own way as Alexa's family house. 

It's possible it was rented for TV.  On these shows, sometimes they show the actual family residence and other times they rent out a property.

That said, his mom did give a tour of the property.  Her mom was remarried so she may have gotten the property with the stepdad that was there.

[Snapdragon]

Cole is so freakin' racist.  Comparing Zanab to Kim K (who she looks nothing like), saying that he was willing to date someone named Zanab when all he dated before were women named things such as Lily (as if her ethnicity was some kind of flaw that he was willing to over look) and going on about how Colleen is more physically his type when the only real physical difference between Zanab and Colleen is skin color and Zanab having more of an "ethnic" nose.  His going on about how attractive Colleen is is bad enough but there's definitely a racial aspect to it that's just ugly.  And if you're that particular about the race/ethnicity of people you date, then don't go on a dating show where you pick someone sight unseen.  .  

And yes, Matt is all the red flags and Bartise is an asshat.  I like SK but don't understand why you would be looking to get married right before starting college in another state.  Out of all the guys this season, Brennan is the only one who seems to be serious about getting married.  And out of the women, I too find myself surprisingly liking Raven the most, probably because she and Alexa are the only women this season who have any self-esteem (which is sad because Nancy, Colleen and Zanab are way too old to be putting up with the nonsense that they are).

On a lighter note, how is it that Cole had never heard the name Colleen before?  The way he was completely mystified by it and then couldn't spell or pronounce it correctly had me cracking up

[NoWhammies]

I suspect with Zanab, it may even be deeper than being brown. I believe she is Pakistani, and she has a vaguely Middle Eastern sounding name. She came of age in the US during post 9/11 when many people weren't differentiating much - the sad truth is anyone who looked or seemed like they might be of Middle Eastern descent was considered highly suspect at the time. One can only guess that filtered down to kids as well. Xenophobia was at its peak. Zanab was a tween in 2001--a formative age for a girl developing self-esteem. Having once been a tween myself, I recall tween girls being absolutely vicious. I'm guessing there was a lot of bullying about her skin color, her name, and more. I have a niece who is about her age and also brown, and I remember a lot of what she went through. Add to that the loss of Zanab's parents at around the same time--I feel terrible for that little girl, and I can see that in her insecurity as an adult.

I would guess that what she heard when Coal (I prefer Colleen's spelling) said that he dated girls like Colleen named Lily and stuff was that Coal's usual type was girls with white skin. 

Edited October 28, 2022 by NoWhammies

[dreamkiller]

I have to say I appreciated Nancy's conversation with Bartise regarding abortion. So often the focus of the conversation is centered on whether the pregnancy is unwanted, but aborting due to known chromosomal abnormalities is not often brought to the forefront. Like Nancy, I work with people with developmental disabilities (I'm a social worker) and the quality of life that they and their families experience varies tremendously. Bartise's flippant "I'm strong enough to handle some challenges" very likely gave Nancy a ton of insight into his understanding of the subject and his likelihood to really LISTEN to her. Nancy does this work every.single.day. She might have some thoughts worth listening to, Bartise! It would be a lot more difficult than grinning and bearing it. With that being said, people with intellectual and developmental disabilities can lead lives as wonderful as anyone else, but it's certainly not always without unexpected significant support from their loved ones and insurance systems. It's absolutely something that you would need to discuss further and to be as mentally/financially prepared for as possible. This is not a conversation that I can recall seeing on television before, but once again, much appreciated!

Edited October 28, 2022 by dreamkiller

[DearEvette]

Honestly, I did not get any racist vibes from Cole.  He never once mentioned race or even alluded to race when he was talking to or about Zanab.  

The first time race is mentioned in relation to Zanab is by her stepmom in her little talk with Cole.  During that talk she is trying to tell him why Zanab can be insecure and possibly wondering why his parents are not 100% ok with the marriage.  The stepmom says specifically that one of the thought Zanab could be having is : "They don’t like me because my skin is a different color?”  And how Zanab realizes that she has been with her stepmom longer than she had been with her mom.  Cole gets a look on his face like the light-bulb just went on and says "Oh, I get it now."  Even with the parents, Cole never mentioned race as a concern.  Their objection came from a fundie religious place because they were sending him bible verses.  He was insistent that once they met her they'd love her.

Now, personally for the first two episodes I had a hard time telling Zanab, Colleen and Nancy apart.  To me they looked a lot alike were all like brunettes with similar hair and similar voices.  I think they are all equally attractive.  But it is hard to get a sense of what they look like physically, how tall or short or thin etc. compared to each other.  How people look on a screen is deceptive to how they look in person. 

Yeah, Cole was insensitive and an ass to tell Zanab so frankly that he was physically attracted to Colleen and she was a 10 (BTW, he also rated Raven a 10).  It would have served him well to know you just don't say that to a woman.  But to be fair, I think at that initial meeting of everyone, Cole was actually working through what the experiment of the show is trying to be.  He acknowledges that if it were a purely physical thing, at first sight, in a bar he'd gravitate toward Colleen.  But he also has been adamant and repeatedly said how he had 'zero feelings' for Colleen and he is emotionally connected to Zanab and his feelings for Zanab were "at an 11".  Which is what the show is challenging the pod-people to grapple with.

It is interesting because all Zanab (and I'll admit me too at first ) heard initially was 'I'm attracted to Colleen' .  We get stuck on that because it is a needle scratch of a thing to say in a new, fragile relationship.  But in re-watch Cole is adamant in repeating over and over  and trying  to say in many different ways he loves and wants Zanab because she is the person he wanted in the pods. 

My takeaway about the comment "I proposed to a girl named Zainab.  Do you think I thought a girl named Zainab looked like girls I dated int he past  the were named like Lily?"  wasn't coming from a place of racism but was trying to address her insecurities as conveyed to him by her stepmother. Again, he isn't the best communicator, so it comes out sounding bad.  But also that conversation in the bar, Matt had wound Zanab up (and outright lied to her) and she simply wasn't listening to Cole at all. 

Matt lied and told her that Cole said to Colleen "whatever happens in the real world will happen." implying that Cole and Colleen would act on thinking the other was cute.  Zanab took that and ran with it. Matt fucked with her head and he is actually the one that dialed up her insecurities after Cole had pretty much put them at rest when they had returned to Dallas.

[Starlight925]

This show reminds me of a long-distance relationship I had for about a year.  This was before FaceTime, so it was 90% phone calls, 10% in-person, over-the-moon vacation romance.

We once stayed on the phone for 12 straight hours.

It was the best relationship I ever had, which turned into the worst, once we moved to be together in person.  Within 3 months, it was over.

Nothing substitutes for in-person chemistry and seeing how people handle real-world situations.  

I see so much of that now.  There is little to do in those pods.  Eat, drink a little, get some stretches in (a la Raven).  

They didn't even have their phones until now.  Literally, every waking second was focused on the blank world of nothing but the other person.  Once the real world sets in, we see how people really are.

Bartise will tire  of anyone in his life, even someone who looks like (his ideal) Raven.  

      He's a Narcissist, and Narcissists have to Narc:  Idealize, devalue, replace, discard.  Repeat.

      He's already tiring of Nancy.  Won't even hug her.  

      But the second Nancy talks to Andrew, he possessively has to move back in.  He doesn't want Nancy, but he can't stand that her focus has shifted from him.  Narcissist.

Cole is too immature.  Lives like a teenage boy whose parents are away on vacation.  Tom Cruise in Risky Business.

Raven wants a sugar daddy.  She knew SK was going away to school.  She wants him to pay for her apartment in Dallas while he's away.  Who pays for it now?

Mmmmkay.....what if he gets a job elsewhere once he does graduate?  What then, Raven?

    She has no plans to move with her new husband, even though he made it clear that he was leaving, while they were in the pods?   I think her sweet "love the Nigerian culture" was all an act.  SK said he has financial means, which they must have discussed in the pod.  

Matt was too lovey-dovey, all over Colleen, at that pool party.  Too possessive.  Kept his arm tightly wrapped around her, as in ownership.  Me no likey that.  And she's right, he keeps picking that incident apart.  She cried, she apologized, she ran after him, yet here he is, ruining yet another night.  I was in another relationship that reminds me of.....I digress.

Brennan & Alexa - I actually like this couple, differing cultures/religions be damned.  I sense real chemistry, and he's crazy about her, for her.  I'm a Jewish Texan, so I get both sides of this.  She'll get herself some blinged out cowboy boots and go to town.  He handled her large Jewish family very well, going along with the knife joke (which I thought was hilarious, as it's something my family would do).  And she hung out in the country with the chickens, on the swing with his mom, with respect.  I like them.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Starlight925

[violet and green]

17 hours ago, Snapdragon said:

Cole is so freakin' racist. ...going on about how Colleen is more physically his type when the only real physical difference between Zanab and Colleen is skin color and Zanab having more of an "ethnic" nose. 

I don't think it's racism. Colleen has a fit modern dancer's body; while Zanab is a bit matronly around the middle, with belly rolls when seated. That is what I have been assuming Cole was talking about. He isn't attracted to her body type, or perhaps to curvier women.

[Empress1]

Colleen is what I’d call cute. Petite, girlish face - she looks like a kid. The rest of the women look grown. That’s the primary difference in Zanab vs. her levels of attractiveness, to me.

(This reminds me of the “is she hot?” episode of The Office.)

By the way, something else I read linked to Colleen’s LinkedIn and it appears she works full-time in PR, and that’s been her career path.

9 hours ago, Starlight925 said:

She wants him to pay for her apartment in Dallas while he's away

That is complete nonsense and I hope he didn’t entertain it. She said her hair costs $500 and I don’t see it. I assume it’s the color (which needs touching up); I keep thinking how dry it looks. She needs a deep conditioning regimen if she’s committed to the blonde.

[thejuicer]

Cole needs to keep his. mouth. shut. about. Colleen. Forever. Here's where his immaturity is showing - when you're in a relationship sometimes (or oftentimes) you don't say things out of respect for your partner. Not everything has to be said and "real" and "honest" or whatever the kids say these days. I've been with my guy for 12 years, married for 6, and since the day we met, if I ask him if he thinks someone else is attractive he says without thinking "No". If she's super hot he might say "she's OK" lol. And I agree with what others have said, I don't see what Cole is seeing in Colleen. To me she is plain. Zainab is gorgeous. Cole is plain and seems like he's stuck in high school.

Alexa and Brennon just seem to work. I like that she seems to keep him on his toes and vice versa. I can seem them working out.

Raven has really grown on me these episodes. I feel like the show is pushing this narrative that she's a gold digger but I get the feeling she does quite well for herself. She and SK are actually cute together. I was thinking she would get the S1 Jessica/S2 Shaina character arc but I loved her shutting down Bartise hard. Still don't think she and SK will marry though.

Matt and Colleen I agree with everyone else who thinks Matt is unhinged. The whole packing his stuff up because SHE WENT! TO! A! CLUB! and calling Nancy, etc. is all sorts of deranged. And I can guarantee he was acting like a lunatic before she decided she wanted to leave him alone for the club. I'm hoping they don't make it to wedding day.

Bartise is just downright cruel to Nancy at this point. I don't understand why he feels the need to tell her, and everyone else, that he's not physically attracted to her. The abortion conversation was all kinds of awkward (and offensive) and a glimpse of how miserable her life would be with that family. Nancy, RUN. At this point I don't think they'll make it to the weddings (no spoilers, just spec). I haven't seen any clips of him or her all dolled up for wedding day. And am I crazy or did Andrew seem kind of sexy now? Just me? OK, seeing myself out now.

[Crazydoxielady]

2 hours ago, thejuicer said:

And am I crazy or did Andrew seem kind of sexy now? Just me? OK, seeing myself out now.

I thought the same thing. He was just staring at Nancy, listening to her, being kind, consoling her..... UGH~ I wish she could find her self-esteem somewhere on the floor... in the corner... and tell Bartise to kick rocks. I think Bartise brought up the abortion situation in front of his family on purpose. He knows they are all pro-life, and that this would be a big deal to them, and here he is now using that information against her.... "My sister doesn't think this is going to work." Bartise is a young immature 25-year-old, and does not belong on LIB. He wants a hot bodied girl and certainly isn't  into Nancy. I am getting very annoyed at Nancy, though, for taking his insults and still gunning for the alter. Girl! He ain't that into you, and that will only get worse.

I am much more tolerant of Raven now that she is out of the pods. I do think she likes SK for financial stability, but they also have a nice way with each other. I also think it's weird he came on this show knowing he would be going to grad school for two years in California. What about that plan says, "get married to a Texan right now." Regardless, they are both pragmatic individuals and I like them together. I didn't find her that attractive initially, but with her showing her sense of humor I can see it now. Her friends were the real deal and have known her since childhood. I was happy to see she's not one of those "I get along better with guys than women" types. 

Still love Alexa and Brennan, but I am definitely catching spoiled diva vibes from her. She said she never repeats an outfit, and it is obvious her dad (who I found so sexayyyy) will fund her life indefinitely. Not sure how it will go with Brennan fiscally on the long term for her, and if that's  a deal breaker. I do love that she is unapologetically a BBW, and has great self esteem. She is the largest of all of the women, yet Zanab and Nancy are walking around like they are massively morbidly obese, all the while Alexa is eating her bagel and soaking up her man's love! Eat that bagel girl! 

[Miss Slay]

On 10/27/2022 at 8:23 AM, Rlb8031 said:

Zanab lost her parents at an early age and was taken in by a white family who probably couldn't fully understand or help her cope with the issues that come from being "the brown girl" in a sea of otherwise non-descript blondes and brunettes.

I wouldn't use the word "taken in".  The family we met is her step-mother and step-brother. Her father remarried and that was his wife. I don't see her actions as "taking someone in."

That said, this show does highlight how race plays a factor when dating. Zanaib and Cole are a bad fit - for a variety of reasons. But I believe Zanaib is picking up on the fact that Cole is more attracted to white women. 

Bartise should break up with Nancy. He is being cowardly.

I was shocked at the negative connotation that grad school has. SK is actually increasing his earning power by attending graduate school. Raven and her "friends" seem a bit short sighted. 

[violet and green]

2 hours ago, Miss Slay said:

I wouldn't use the word "taken in".  The family we met is her step-mother and step-brother. Her father remarried and that was his wife. I don't see her actions as "taking someone in."

I don't know who that man was, but both Zanab's parents died.

[Miss Slay]

12 minutes ago, violet and green said:

I don't know who that man was, but both Zanab's parents died.

I know.

What does that have to do with anything I posted?

Edited October 29, 2022 by Miss Slay

[violet and green]

6 minutes ago, Miss Slay said:

I know.

What does that have to do with anything I posted?

You said: "Her father remarried and that was his wife."

Well, no, it wasn't. Her father died when she was 13. Her mother died five years later when she was 18. I don't know why she calls the woman we met her step-mom, but she was not at any point Zanab's father's wife.

[Kiss my mutt]

I agree, Bartise brought up their abortion discussion to try to make her look bad in front of his parents but they reacted a lot better to the discussion than he did. There was really no reason to do it otherwise. 

[Zuleikha]

3 hours ago, Miss Slay said:

That said, this show does highlight how race plays a factor when dating. Zanaib and Cole are a bad fit - for a variety of reasons. But I believe Zanaib is picking up on the fact that Cole is more attracted to white women. 

I don't see how she could be picking up on that or how anyone here can claim to know it. All we know about Cole is that he views Colleen and Raven to be 10/10 but Zanab (and probably Nancy and Alexa) to be very attractive, but not quite as attractive as the other two women. We also know that Cole had no qualms about becoming engaged to a non-white woman, which was the actual point that he was making when he told Zanab he didn't expect her to look like his previous girlfriends. 

I also don't know if my TV is just showing Zanab differently than other people's TV, but if she was named Lilly instead of Zanab and no other information about her ethnic background was presented, I would never have guessed she's of some flavor of MENA heritage. Zanab does have an ethnic name, so I can certainly by that she was made fun of in school, felt very different, and has a self-conception of herself looking very obviously non-white. But in reality, I don't think that's true. I'm not sure what Cole is supposed to be being put off by.

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, violet and green said:

You said: "Her father remarried and that was his wife."

Well, no, it wasn't. Her father died when she was 13. Her mother died five years later when she was 18. I don't know why she calls the woman we met her step-mom, but she was not at any point Zanab's father's wife.

I assumed that Zanab’s parents were divorced, her father was married to her stepmother when he died, and the man we saw is her stepmother’s current husband.

4 hours ago, Miss Slay said:

I was shocked at the negative connotation that grad school has. SK is actually increasing his earning power by attending graduate school.

I believe he’s going to Haas, Berkeley’s business school, which is in the top 10. And he got a full ride so he’s not going to be incurring a ton of debt. I think he works in tech now, so I’d guess an MBA would only help in terms of comp. I might feel differently if he were borrowing it all and thus setting himself back (although his compensation coming out would probably still be high), but he’s not. 

Since he seems to work in tech, I wonder how Raven would feel if he got an offer in Silicon Valley.

[violet and green]

8 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I assumed that Zanab’s parents were divorced, her father was married to her stepmother when he died, and the man we saw is her stepmother’s current husband.

That's not what she said in the pods.

[DearEvette]

8 hours ago, thejuicer said:

Raven has really grown on me these episodes. I feel like the show is pushing this narrative that she's a gold digger but I get the feeling she does quite well for herself. She and SK are actually cute together. I was thinking she would get the S1 Jessica/S2 Shaina character arc but I loved her shutting down Bartise hard. Still don't think she and SK will marry though.

Yeah, me too.  I didn't like Raven in the beginning.  But as the series progressed, I feel that her personality is just reserved.  And her characterization of Bartise was very incisive. Not a lot of women would have insulted by that, but she was.  There is one point, I think it was her talking to Matt, where she said she is the type to walk along very fast while SK trods very carefully.  She was making a point about her vs. him.  Neither is bad, but they are just different.

I agree that the show is trying to make her out to be a bit more shallow than she is and the remark about him paying half her rent makes her seem like a gold digger. I am seeing that narrative play out on some social media.  I mentioned upthread that they showed her seeming to care more about working out more than anything in the first three episodes but in this last set she hasn;t worked out once.  Obviously it is reality tv and they use their edits to craft a story.  But it makes we watch how they are crafting Raven with a more critical eye.  

I mean if she were a gold digger wouldn't she jump at the chance to move out to Cali, live off SK and wait for his future earning potential?  But it sounds likes she is hesitant to leave behind  her job and the lifestyle she enjoys -- one that it sounds like she can afford to bankroll all by herself.   Now I, don't agree with the idea that he should pay half her rent, personally.  But then again they'd be married and married people negotiate how they share finances in ways that make most sense to them. 

And then we have Nancy who is making bank on her properties and outright said that her money would be "their" money and Bartise simply nodded his head.  He doesn't have any money and admitted as much.  Could be double standard or could be that he is such a horror show on everything else characterizing him as  a gold digger is the least of his sins.

[violet and green]

24 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I assumed that Zanab’s parents were divorced, her father was married to her stepmother when he died, and the man we saw is her stepmother’s current husband.

Right, I get it. I assumed otherwise. Quick rewatch of the segment, and it says they are at Zanab's stepbrother's house and the man we saw is her stepbrother.

[Lsk02]

On 10/26/2022 at 8:11 PM, SoapDoc said:

I was a little confused as to why Bartise told his family about the abortion conversation. Given the fact that he is very close to his family, I would guess that he knew their opinions. Don't bring that up when they first meet! I'm not sure if it really is the family's business but either way, not during the first meet. 

He absolutely did that to get validation from his family that she’s not the right fit for him. He knew what their reaction would be. I wondered if his crying sister knew about his “Everyone should be allowed one unplanned free pass, but that’s it” philosophy. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 10/26/2022 at 8:29 PM, Zuleikha said:

On a different subject, I have generally been pretty willing to not judge contestants negatively based on how they come across and to remember that there are a lot of POVs. But Matt scares me. I was actually shaking after that last scene with him and Bartise.

I had to wonder how staged it was because why was that the first time I found Bartise remotely likeable?  LOL.  It was like night and day, he seemed like a totally different person.

What pisses me off about Bartise is how nakedly transparent he is.  He is an incredibly shallow person and admits it over and over again.  He cares about looks soooooooooo much.  So for him to go on the show "Love is Blind" is simply to further his social media presence.  He won't even pretend for the cameras.

Zanab has been sabotaging her relationship since she saw what Cole looks like and thinks he's out of her league.  (She thinks, not me, I'm saying this is what she thinks.) She is so insecure that he's with her that she's making matters worse and worse.  I don't blame her for it, but that's been happening for a long time.  She also seems really difficult to be around.  It's uncomfortable and very mother/son between them.

On 10/26/2022 at 11:32 PM, DearEvette said:

So Alexa and Brennan now have a storyline.  Money disparity.  Her father is concerned about her marrying a poor.  But in all that I thought her dad was cool. 

Even with the knives conversation?

Edited October 30, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 10/27/2022 at 12:35 PM, CSunshine76 said:

I love Brennan, but he is in way over his head with Alexa’s family. He needs a nice country girl from Ft Worth that will fit in with his culture and family. The differences in cultures is just way too vast!

A lot of us come from families where the parents are of two different cultures/countries/religions/races/continents.  Even people like Raven and Bartise on the show are examples of that.  They wouldn't exist if everyone had that outlook.

Edited October 30, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 10/29/2022 at 12:14 PM, thejuicer said:

Cole needs to keep his. mouth. shut. about. Colleen. Forever.

I think almost all of them are purposely trying to sabotage which explains their actions:  Bartise, Cole, Zanab (maybe subconsciously), and Raven.  

And I don't care if Colleen goes to a million clubs, that's awesome, but knowing how Matt is and how he wouldn't like it, maybe she is too?

It's funny how men feel the need to mark their territory (Bartise, Matt) and it's also hilarious that Colleen said something to Matt and he ignored it and Cole said the same thing and he was basically like "You have a penis, so I shall listen to your wise words. Thank you"

Edited October 30, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Irlandesa]

30 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Even with the knives conversation?

That was a circumcision joke and a round about "welcome to the family."  I guess difference sense of humor and all but I found it hilarious.

The thing I found less hilarious is daddy telling his young wife to make him a drink.  Not even asking but telling.

[Empress1]

49 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I had to wonder how staged it was because why was that the first time I found Bartise remotely likeable?

It reminded me of a scene from Married at First Sight where one of the husbands got mad at his wife about something dumb and recounted the story to a friend and the friend was like “you were about to leave over that?!” (meaning something insignificant). I like when people are the voice of reason. It was weird for it to be Bartise, but he was right.

58 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

It's uncomfortable and very mother/son between them.

Cole complains that Zanab is passive-aggressive about chores, and she … really is. There was a scene where she was like “you know what you can do with dirty clothes? Put them in the laundry,” in this really condescending voice as though she were speaking to a toddler. I wouldn’t respond well to that either.

[jabRI]

I see Cole being left at the alter.  they seem to have like nothing in common, and he's way too immature.     and yes, people have filters for a reason.  I don't think Colleen or Nancy will even get that far.

[Cramps]

Raven is interesting. She came off, or was initially edited like she was going to be a villain-type. But for me, the turnaround came when SK started telling her how understanding she is, which I’m guessing is something she doesn’t usually hear, and it really got to her emotionally. I think she’s so used to hearing how hot she is (and putting up protective walls) that having an intelligent man who has yet to see her, tell her how much he appreciated all the facets of her personality, began to open her up. ~~Which was the opposite of her (great) response to Bartise when he tried to flirt with her in the pool. 

[SummerDreams]

At this point I bet that they are told they don't get any money if they don't stay until the wedding day. There is no other explanation of why some of these people are still there humiliating themselves.

Alexa not wearing an outfit for a second time. Get out of here you entitled twat. People are DYING of poverty in the world. Shut the f up

Edited November 1, 2022 by SummerDreams

[Rlb8031]

On 10/29/2022 at 4:38 PM, Miss Slay said:

I wouldn't use the word "taken in".  The family we met is her step-mother and step-brother. Her father remarried and that was his wife. I don't see her actions as "taking someone in."

That said, this show does highlight how race plays a factor when dating. Zanaib and Cole are a bad fit - for a variety of reasons. But I believe Zanaib is picking up on the fact that Cole is more attracted to white women. 

Bartise should break up with Nancy. He is being cowardly.

I was shocked at the negative connotation that grad school has. SK is actually increasing his earning power by attending graduate school. Raven and her "friends" seem a bit short sighted. 

I completely missed this. I thought the mom said she was a friend of the family. 

[CSunshine76]

21 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

A lot of us come from families where the parents are of two different cultures/countries/religions/races/continents.  Even people like Raven and Bartise on the show are examples of that.  They wouldn't exist if everyone had that outlook.

I understand that, but I didn’t find her father to be very welcoming of Brennan. And the vast difference in wealth will likely come into play as well. I very well could be wrong, but I just don’t see her family meshing well with Brennan based on the small amount of interaction I saw on the screen.