Magpie Murders - General Discussion

[Eureka]

Thanks for alerting us to their being a sequel. My husband just borrowed it via Libby and I’ll read it when he’s done. We both read the first one.

[dubbel zout]

Tim McMullen (Atticus Pünd) is in the Enola Holmes sequel, and I just saw Conleth Hill (Alan Conway) as a hilariously bad medium in the last season of Derry Girls. 

[mjc570]

I liked the book this was based on (although I much prefer his other series and did not really like the second one in this series, Moonflower Murder), but I have to say I am absolutely loving this show.  It is so well done, and the writing and acting are both first rate.  I especially like the humor.  Tim McMullan is a perfect Atticus Pund, but really, everyone is stellar.  

[sugarbaker design]

47 minutes ago, tpwilder said:

Are we allowed leeway is discussing how the book goes versus the show?

I read the book also, if I refer to the book, I always spoiler it, I'd rather err on the side of caution.  I wouldn't want to ruin anyone else watching it.

[Driad]

The two letters seem opposite: one handwritten letter in a typed envelope, one typed letter in a handwritten envelope. Any speculations on the significance of this? If I recall correctly:

Letter 1 (1950s): typed letter in a handwritten envelope. From unknown person to Magnus Pye, threatening him if he sells Dingle Dell for devlopment.

Letter 2 (2000s): handwritten letter in a typed envelope. From author Alan Conway (in his handwriting) to the publisher (Susan Ryeland's boss). Could be interpreted as a suicide note or just saying his last novel is finished.

If these were in the same universe and timeframe, we might suspect a mixup.  I wish we could compare the handwriting of envelope 1 and letter 2, and the typewriter of letter 1 and envelope 2.

[izabella]

1 hour ago, Driad said:

Letter 2 (2000s): handwritten letter in a typed envelope. From author Alan Conway (in his handwriting) to the publisher (Susan Ryeland's boss). Could be interpreted as a suicide note or just saying his last novel is finished.

I remember thinking it didn't really sound like a suicide note when they read part of it out loud.  Could it have been part of the last chapter of his book?  With clues on where to find the rest?  Did he mail pages from the book to all the likely suspects/people he modeled his characters after?  And if the book has Susan's life story in it, does that make it easier for her to guess who the book killer is?  Maybe that ghostwriter she said the publisher should contact could piece it together.

[sugarbaker design]

2 hours ago, Daff said:

Actually, at this point, I’m wondering if we’ll get a conclusion in 6.

There was plot resolutions in the novel.

[MrsKravitz]

Is anyone else bothered that Lesley Manville is 15-20 years too old for the part? I really like her, but seeing her with her ready-to-retire boss is jarring. She’s considerably older than her sister, too. Photo in the guest room shows them closer in age. 

[zoey1996]

I expected to see comments about Melissa Conway and that she and Andreas had been together before Susan knew him. It may mean nothing, but at this point I’m intrigued.

[Daff]

4 hours ago, MrsKravitz said:

Is anyone else bothered that Lesley Manville is 15-20 years too old for the part? I really like her, but seeing her with her ready-to-retire boss is jarring. She’s considerably older than her sister, too. Photo in the guest room shows them closer in age. 

They seem to be doing too much to make her appear younger: makeup, bangs, casually swept up hair, clothing and sitting cross legged on her loveseat. I think she looked younger in WoF. Her eyes, especially, look terrible here. 

[chitowngirl]

In most of the cozy mysteries I read, the killer is revealed in the second to the last chapter, not the last. The last chapter catches the killer and wraps it ip. In the first season of Broadchurch, there was enough information to know who the killer was in the 5th episode (out of 6). I hope we have enough info tonight to know who-done-it…in both mysteries!

[ShelleySue]

19 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

In most of the cozy mysteries I read, the killer is revealed in the second to the last chapter, not the last. The last chapter catches the killer and wraps it ip. In the first season of Broadchurch, there was enough information to know who the killer was in the 5th episode (out of 6). I hope we have enough info tonight to know who-done-it…in both mysteries!

There are three murders.  We just found out that Lady Pye murdered Mary Blakiston.  The murders of Magnus Pye and Alan Conway still have to be solved. Usually, once they are solved, we can look back, see how the clues fit together and everything makes sense. Right now I have no idea how any of this will make sense. So far we've seen Alan actually be nice twice.  Once was when he was in the coffee shop with Susan's sister. We then found out that he was pumping her for information (eg the father running off with the governess, the mother drowning) that he used in his book. The second time was after he found out that Andreas was seeing Susan.  All of a sudden he acted like he wanted to do something special for Susan by helping Andreas.

Speculation:

Spoiler

Was Alan trying to implicate Susan in his death? If so, why? We know he was frustrated by not being able to write something other than the whodunnits. Does he hold Susan responsible? Did Alan commit suicide? If so, how is this related to Magnus Pye?

[wanderingstar]

I did not expect to like this show as much as I do. I enjoy Lesley Manville in pretty much everything she does, so I wanted to watch it for her, but I wasn't sure if I'd be into the meta-ness of it all. But that has turned out to be my favorite part. I'm loving Susan and Pund's conversations (I was surprised to find out from the Masterpiece Studio podcast interview with Tim McMullin that he and Lesley Manville did not film the majority of their scenes together) Her exasperation with him in the face of his patience is fun to watch.

As an amateur writer, I find the depiction of the writing process delightful and way too accurate-lol Alan saying to Charles "It's Magpie Murders not THE Magpie Murders" was hilarious and made my inner copy editor feel very seen. 

Plus, I love seeing actors I've watched in many other cozy mystery shows.

Edited November 20, 2022 by Gillian Rosh

[seacliffsal]

Have just read all of the comments and find that I have an unpopular opinion in that I was bored with the most recent episode (episode 5) as it seems a bit late to keep adding red herrings (i.e. Andreas' version of the photo).  When there is a season long mystery/story arc I sometimes feel like the writers insert a lot solely to pad out the episodes and this is what I am finding with this series.

I also feel like Susan is angry-but I'm not sure why.

[sugarbaker design]

What a satisfying final chapter!  I was wondering how AH was going to handle the vulgar anagram.  It was so cleverly handled, but not nearly as clever as putting Susan on the scene as Pund solves his village mystery.  Just one complaint:. I would've loved to have seen Susan and Andreas in Crete.

Edited November 21, 2022 by sugarbaker design

[judylo]

1 hour ago, sugarbaker design said:

What a satisfying final chapter!  I was wondering how AH was going to handle the vulgar anagram.  It was so cleverly handled, but not nearly as clever as putting Susan on the scene as Pund solves his village mystery.  Just one complaint:. I would've loved to have seen Susan and Andreas in Crete.

Read the sequel! She’s in Crete.

[sugarbaker design]

7 hours ago, judylo said:

Read the sequel! She’s in Crete.

I have read Moonflower Murders.  I still want to see Susan and Andreas in Crete.

[sugarbaker design]

So if Atticus Pund was an anagram, isn't it highly likely Susan Ryeland is one as well?  So I can only come up with:

Us any slander

Years land sun

Under any lass

Laundry an ess

Dressy annual

[sharifa70]

So… Alan was murdered over…an anagram that made the main character’s name ridiculous? What a massive letdown that was for me. I figured out the murderer right away because that actor seems to be The One What Dunnit in everything I see (except that one Bollywood movie), but I found the motive to be ridiculous, and after that I didn’t even care about the last 20 minutes. Boo.

[sempervivum]

I agree that the 'solution' was disappointing and imo, kind of stupid. That anagram, really?

However, the acting was good, the scenery was nice and the various conceits involving past/current time, flipped clues, etc,. were amusing. I'll probably watch the sequel, but with lowered expectations.

[sugarbaker design]

53 minutes ago, sharifa70 said:

So… Alan was murdered over…an anagram that made the main character’s name ridiculous? What a massive letdown that was for me. I figured out the murderer right away because that actor seems to be The One What Dunnit in everything I see (except that one Bollywood movie), but I found the motive to be ridiculous, and after that I didn’t even care about the last 20 minutes. Boo.

19 minutes ago, sempervivum said:

I agree that the 'solution' was disappointing and imo, kind of stupid. That anagram, really?

However, the acting was good, the scenery was nice and the various conceits involving past/current time, flipped clues, etc,. were amusing. I'll probably watch the sequel, but with lowered expectations.

The book explained the motive for Conway's murder way better than the teleplay.  The vulgar anagram would not only show how Alan felt about Pund, it would show how also felt about his reading public.  It would've have been a publishing disaster when Charles was counting on Alan's catalog of Pund novels, including future sales, for his big deal.

[Driad]

I enjoyed this, and watched each episode twice.  Planning to read the book.

The author of the real book (Anthony Horowitz) spoke at the end and said he thought he had included the necessary clues.  I don't know whether the rivalry between young Robert and his brother Sam, and the fact that the dog belonged just to Sam and not to both boys, were in the real book, but I did not catch them in the dramatization.  

However, I was suspicious of Robert (maybe he protested too much) and disliked Susan's boss, so the solutions did not surprise me.

[dubbel zout]

I haz confused about the anagram—did it show up in Alan's manuscript?—but since it didn't play much of a part in the TV show, that's okay.

I was slightly disappointed with the solutions, but they did fit the information we'd been given throughout, and I appreciate that.

[ML89]

1 hour ago, sharifa70 said:

So… Alan was murdered over…an anagram that made the main character’s name ridiculous? What a massive letdown that was for me. I figured out the murderer right away because that actor seems to be The One What Dunnit in everything I see (except that one Bollywood movie), but I found the motive to be ridiculous, and after that I didn’t even care about the last 20 minutes. Boo.

I had Masterpiece drop out in the middle (thanks Xfinity) then return - that was it? When there are routinely writers and actors who disavow their work and people keep eating it up? Okay. Also the killer - until they did act 2, I would have argued that it was an accident and who would have been wiser? It was the coverup that did him in.

Definitely not watching another season of this, although that theme reminds me of another piece of music that I can't put my finger on...

[sugarbaker design]

34 minutes ago, Driad said:

I don't know whether the rivalry between young Robert and his brother Sam, and the fact that the dog belonged just to Sam and not to both boys, were in the real book, but I did not catch them in the dramatization.  

It was in the book, but it was only revealed in the 6th episode of the series, during the interview with Robert and Sam's father, that the dog Bella was specifically given to Sam as a birthday gift.

[Driad]

Thank you, sugarbaker design.  I did hear these points mentioned, but IMO the dramatization would have been better if they had shown them rather than told them.

[albinerhawk]

Normally I don't get these whodunnits before the reveal, but I did catch the "roadworks" clue in episode 5. Didn't get the motive, but I got the killer. (Patting myself on the back.) 

[Driad]

Conan Doyle got to dislike Sherlock Holmes too, and sales have been fine.  Didn't someone in this episode say Reichenbach?

[bigmag]

I just finished streaming River (from 2015) and Lesley Manville and Michael Maloney (her boss Charles on Magpie Murders) are a married couple in it.  He turns out to be a real shit in that show also!

[Tardislass]

I absolutely loved this and so did my eighty year old parents. Felt very Poirot-like, given that Horowitz adapted some of the stories to TV. Hoping it does well enough for another season as Miss Scarlett has really gone downhill for me after starting out promising.

I'm also hoping that PBS airs the next season of Vienna Blood, starring Jack from MM.

[wanderingstar]

I admit that I was baking while watching the finale last night, so I may have missed it - what was the anagram?

[cardigirl]

Count me in as someone who enjoyed this very much! I didn't remember the ending, but was beginning to suspect the young man of his brother's death because of him diving into the lake.  And I should have been more suspicious of Susan's boss, because, as someone else said earlier in this thread, that actor often plays unreliable people. 

I enjoyed the author's commentary about the show after each episode. It really enhanced my enjoyment of the storytelling. 

I remember not liking Moonflower Murders as much, but may reread it as I felt this show fleshed out Susan a bit more and I could start again with a fresher perspective. 

All of the acting was superb! 

[Kath94]

On 11/21/2022 at 7:16 AM, sugarbaker design said:

So if Atticus Pund was an anagram, isn't it highly likely Susan Ryeland is one as well?  So I can only come up with:

Us any slander

Years land sun

Under any lass

Laundry an ess

Dressy annual

One of the book characters based on her family was "Darnley," an anagram of Ryeland.

[sugarbaker design]

2 minutes ago, Kath94 said:

One of the book characters based on her family was "Darnley," an anagram of Ryeland.

Yes, I saw that!

[tootsie]

It was fun to watch and I don't regret a second of it.That said, whyowhyowhy would an intelligent woman spill everything to a murderer when they're alone, and then TURN HER BACK to him? I don't care how long she's known him! They're isolated and he kills people! That common trope where the heroine loses any sense of cautious self preservation and rational thought makes me pull out my hair! I also have to say that after the fire, while lying in her hospital bed, Susan's makeup was still perfect,  especially her lipstick ... unsmudged! That must be really high end stuff. Well, it was fun and made for a happy run of Sunday nights. Here's hoping they turn Horowitz loose with the sequel.

[Tardislass]

17 minutes ago, tootsie said:

It was fun to watch and I don't regret a second of it.That said, whyowhyowhy would an intelligent woman spill everything to a murderer when they're alone, and then TURN HER BACK to him? I don't care how long she's known him! They're isolated and he kills people! That common trope where the heroine loses any sense of cautious self preservation and rational thought makes me pull out my hair! I also have to say that after the fire, while lying in her hospital bed, Susan's makeup was still perfect,  especially her lipstick ... unsmudged! That must be really high end stuff. Well, it was fun and made for a happy run of Sunday nights. Here's hoping they turn Horowitz loose with the sequel.

I thought Charles was going to poison her drink but it's typical Agatha Christie-confront the killer fare. Unrealistic but it's a bit like Poirot. I watched the behind the scenes part after the credits and had to go back and watch again as I totally miss Mr. Horowitz in the funeral scenes. Some detective I'd make.

[buckboard]

2 hours ago, tootsie said:

It was fun to watch and I don't regret a second of it.That said, whyowhyowhy would an intelligent woman spill everything to a murderer when they're alone, and then TURN HER BACK to him? 

I tried.  I yelled at the TV, "Don't turn your back on him!" -- but she didn't listen.

[Eureka]

35 minutes ago, buckboard said:

I tried.  I yelled at the TV, "Don't turn your back on him!" -- but she didn't listen.

I did too! And I remembered from the book that he was the murderer but couldn’t remember how she figured it out.

[12catcrazy]

On 11/22/2022 at 8:37 AM, Gillian Rosh said:

I admit that I was baking while watching the finale last night, so I may have missed it - what was the anagram?

I think it was "A Stupid C@@t".  Even I, of the Longshoreman's Mouth, won't type THAT word.  

[Tyro49]

On 10/18/2022 at 8:28 AM, sugarbaker design said:

I have a question for those who have read the book:

  Reveal spoiler

How will they handle the anagram of Atticus Pund?  Is PBS ready?

What is the anagram? I couldn't figure it out.

[sugarbaker design]

12 hours ago, Tyro49 said:

What is the anagram? I couldn't figure it out.

Look directly above your post.

[MrsKravitz]

On 11/29/2022 at 7:27 PM, Tyro49 said:

What is the anagram? I couldn't figure it out.

A Stupid Cunt

[Tardislass]

On 11/30/2022 at 10:48 PM, MrsKravitz said:

A Stupid Cunt

Surprised they got that through the censors, but maybe PBS doesn't know the British connotation.

[MMEButterfly]

39 minutes ago, Tardislass said:

Surprised they got that through the censors, but maybe PBS doesn't know the British connotation.

The word wasn't actually said. 

[LisaM]

I loved it. I thought that the transitions between present day and older day were done very well and made this a superior watch for me. I had read the book years ago and forgot all of the details but for the name Robert Blakiston - so I was a bit spoiled. I loved seeing Lesley Manville and Claire Rushbrook as sisters since I just finished watching Sherwood! Having many of the same actors playing characters in present day and older day was a grand idea! 

Loved all of the scenes with Susan and Mr. Pund. 

 

[chitowngirl]

A second season is coming-Moonflower Murders!

[AnimeMania]

The sequel to Magpie Murders,  Moonflower Murders is being turned into a TV series. It will also have Lesley Manville returning as the editor turned sleuth Susan Ryeland and Timothy McMullan as detective Atticus Pünd, as they use the story within a story motif, to investigate the disappearance of a hotel employee.

More than 5.5M viewers watched Magpie Murders on PBS Masterpiece.

[sugarbaker design]

Just finished Moonflower Murders, I am so looking forward to the TV adaptation.

[chitowngirl]

Season 2, Moonflower Murders, will be airing later this year on PBS. There is a separate forum for discussion here. I just noticed it’s also a subforum wthin this one! 😊

Edited May 7 by chitowngirl

[Driad]

Atticus Pünd is half Greek (according to the book), hence his given name.  Andreas is Greek, from Crete.  I wondered whether there might be a connection.  Apparently it is a coincidence, or a red herring devised by the author, unless I missed something.