Bitterness Thread

[AnswersWanted]

As things start spiraling with Paul and Will and Will and Sonny sadly are set to becone a “thing” again, I am reminded of all the missed opportunities this show has ignored for the gayscape of Salem and it brings up a bitter taste for me. 

I am thoroughly convinced that Paul should have been bisexual.

It would have been an incredibly daring and bold move on the show’s part, I cannot recall a soap really, if ever, directly addressing bisexuality, at least with a guy, and it would have easily tied into Paul wooing and dating women instead of the tired old tripe of “he is in the closet”. 

I think it would have been fun and highly entertaining seeing a character able to play the whole field.

IMO, Ron is so bad at keeping his gay circles so small and compact and he almost always lands on a threesome, he did it on OLTL, then again on GH, and now Days. 

They never branch out or have options and it gets old super quick to watch the musical chairs going on that almost always end in the most predictable way possible. 

[peachmangosteen]

6 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

IMO, Ron is so bad at keeping his gay circles so small and compact and he almost always lands on a threesome, he did it on OLTL, then again on GH, and now Days. 

If only he'd land on a threesome lol!

What was the gay triangle on GH? I can't remember.

[Katy M]

28 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

If only he'd land on a threesome lol!

What was the gay triangle on GH? I can't remember.

Lucas-Brad-Felix.

[AnswersWanted]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

If only he'd land on a threesome lol!

What was the gay triangle on GH? I can't remember.

 

If I recall correctly Ron actually teased a so-called threesome sex scene on GH, with Lucas, Brad, and Felix, but it really just turned into Brad admitting his true feelings for Lucas and Lucas retuned them and they ended up having a twosome instead.

I guess I should be happy that he hasn’t pulled such shenanigans, yet, on Days...though more than likely he’d be met with heavy resistance from Freddie and Chandler, though I’d bet Christopher Sean would have been game, heh. 

But he needs to stop recycling the same ideas for the gay couples, as if they live in this teeny tiny bubble where at max 2.5 other non straight  individuals exist, he’s on his third straight soap where he has the opportunity to really showcase some decent queer and gay characters and he keeps dropping the ball, IMO. 

[peachmangosteen]

8 hours ago, Katy M said:

Lucas-Brad-Felix.

 

5 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

If I recall correctly Ron actually teased a so-called threesome sex scene on GH, with Lucas, Brad, and Felix ...

I literally forgot about Felix lol!

Anyway, I definitely agree that he needs to do better with gay story lines, but I guess after what happened with the ditching of Kish on OLTL I'm just happy there are even gay characters with stories at all.

[TeeVee329]

On ‎9‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 2:14 AM, AnswersWanted said:

IMO, Ron is so bad at keeping his gay circles so small and compact and he almost always lands on a threesome, he did it on OLTL, then again on GH, and now Days. 

They never branch out or have options and it gets old super quick to watch the musical chairs going on that almost always end in the most predictable way possible. 

I honestly think that's more of a US daytime soaps thing versus a Ron thing.  I'm sure Ron would like/have liked to have a larger gay canvas on his shows, at OLTL in particular - we were supposed to see more of Nick, for example, but that got curtailed.  In fact, Nick originally was only supposed to be in like three episode, to go on a date with Kyle and make Fish jealous, but they liked the actor and character and expanded the role - but I think that's beyond his control.

[AnswersWanted]

5 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

I honestly think that's more of a US daytime soaps thing versus a Ron thing.  I'm sure Ron would like/have liked to have a larger gay canvas on his shows, at OLTL in particular - we were supposed to see more of Nick, for example, but that got curtailed.  In fact, Nick originally was only supposed to be in like three episode, to go on a date with Kyle and make Fish jealous, but they liked the actor and character and expanded the role - but I think that's beyond his control.

 

I do think there is a lot of behind the scenes politics that go on over this subject, most of US TV struggles still with answering questions about LGBTQ+ equally and representation.

For me though I feel like Ron has squandered more than a few chances when given them again and again. I feel like he often doesn’t do enough or he keeps repeating the same story over and over again. 

That’s why I mentioned I see a common thread between his last three soaps and the gay characters and relationships, some of which he handcrafted personally. 

IMO, Ron has a set style he writes in and even if there’s something else he could do or some other direction he could go in he chooses to do what he wants and ignores everything else, even if that proves detrimental. 

I definitely think he could be doing far worse, but I also believe he could be doing better if pressed, he gets lazy to me too often. 

There was Derek who went poof, young Henry, and Leo, all characters that could have been expanded on or given more substance, but instead everything always had to revolve back around to the “core threesome” of Paul, Will, and Sonny and their constant rearrangements depending on the week. 

Speaking personally I would have loved to see Xander come out as bi or gay and they could have paired Paul with him, not just for looks and hot chemistry, heh, but the drama factor was sure to be cranked way up. 

[TeeVee329]

I hear you.  I typically tend to like Ron versus dislike, although he is definitely not without his faults.  But in this area I cut him some slack, especially given how the writing for Lucas/Brad/Felix nosedived after he left GH ("We're telling a super groundbreaking and progressive gay adoption storyline!  Oh, you want to see Lucas and Brad on-screen?  Why would we do that?").

And I'm not 100% convinced the show's done with Leo.  And Ron gets kudos for finally introducing a gay character who's a schemer, who sleeps with someone for (GASP!) non-true love reasons, etc.

Edited September 10, 2018 by TeeVee329

[AnswersWanted]

What GH has done to B&L since Ron left...I must leave it alone or I might set my keyboard ablaze, heh, they were easily one of the best gay couples on TV period for a time.

But back to Days, I do wonder about Leo but I almost fear what they could have in store. 

 

Spoiler

Paul is soon going to be gone from the show, at least for a while, leaving just Will and Sonny so I imagine if Leo returns it’ll be about getting revenge on them and...just the thought makes me tired.

 

Now personally, I could give Leo a second chance if the writing worked, but Will and Sonny just bore me to death, if anything I will hope Leo could take their asses down, good and hard, but they’d never let their precious hero couple suffer such a defeat I’d reckon. 

I can already see everyone defending them trying to dispose of his “dead” body to avoid potential murder charades because he was a “lying ho” and hurt Sonny’s delicate man feels. 

Oh, and I forgot man bun bartender, bring him back please for some reason. 

Maybe he can hold a side gig as a physical therapist that Paul will need an assist from...

[TeeVee329]

13 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

Oh, and I forgot man bun bartender, bring him back please for some reason. 

Oh yes, MBB!  I'm really sad my spec that he and Leo were dating/in cahoots never came true.

[Apprentice79]

I am the last person to defend Ron, but, what happened to Kish on One Life to live was beyond his control.  ABC used the low ratings to purge the gay characters. it was really shady. Kish was very popular.

Also, Ron does not know how to write for Black characters. Look at how he messed up the Black lives matter story with Theo and JJ. He could have written a story that was sensitive to both sides of the issue, highlighting implicit bias and how that impacts young Black males in our society.

[TigerLynx]

It seems the producers of the shows are okay with the writers having gay characters in order to get kudos for doing the story, but then they don't want those characters around afterwards.  Either they get flak from the network, or they don't know where to go after the initial coming out/reveal SL.

[Silver Raven]

5 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

I am the last person to defend Ron, but, what happened to Kish on One Life to live was beyond his control.  ABC used the low ratings to purge the gay characters. it was really shady. Kish was very popular.

Also, Ron does not know how to write for Black characters. Look at how he messed up the Black lives matter story with Theo and JJ. He could have written a story that was sensitive to both sides of the issue, highlighting implicit bias and how that impacts young Black males in our society.

There was no way they could have used JJ as the shooter if they went there.

[drtslim]

45 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

So Xander's motive for being married to Nicole is just obsession, right?  Ew.  It'd be more interesting if he blackmailed her into marriage because she had money or something he was after, kinda a flip of what she did to Victor, which he mentioned today.

I still lament what could've come from a Xander/Serena/Eric/Nicole quad.  Four decent actors with chemistry all around, but show did nothing to capitalize.  I put a nice chunk of the blame on Daniel, because Xander/Nicole might've been given a chance if Nicole wasn't tied to him at the time.  Bonus points if Xander had been Alexander Kiriakis and Serena had been Sarah Horton.     

[DisneyBoy]

I am bitter that every time I catch a glimpse of Ciara on my TV screen I wish she would just go away.

I am bitter that the character that lovely child actress previously played with such nuance and charm and personality was aged up so that she could be raped by her half-brother, engage in a petty, often hard to follow rivalry with her own niece, seem to have no specific life direction, vacillate from one boy to the next without any of it being remotely interesting, and now in a final stunner, date a man who was sent to prison for killing multiple women.

 

Why are they putting such effort into giving Ben a storyline that can redeem him and make him a player on the canvas for the foreseeable future when there has been no similar push to make Ciara a cohesive or remotely likeable character? I thought when she came back to the show it was because they had a sense of what they wanted to do with her. Instead, it just feels like they wanted another person on canvas to throw story ideas at just to see what sticks.

 

But the Ben thing bothers me most because I feel like she's just being used to facilitate a male character's arc. If Ciara can love Ben, then we're supposed to love him too, right?

Everything about her since the 50th just makes me bitter when I think about it. And it's too bad for VK that the writing really hasn't improved for her character at all because I don't think she's without talent.

[Katy M]

19 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

I am bitter that the character that lovely child actress previously played with such nuance and charm and personality was aged up so that she could be raped by her half-brother,

Don't even get me started on that.  Not only was that child adorable, and there was potential for story with her since Bo was coming back, it was also one of the most ill-timed SORASes in soap history, in that Hope and what's-his-name had only been dating less than a year, their children were children together and then bam, they're teenagers. Just stupid.  If they had to age her up they should have waited a few months until that storyline was over and Bo was dead again. 

[boes]

53 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

I am bitter that every time I catch a glimpse of Ciara on my TV screen I wish she would just go away.

I am bitter that the character that lovely child actress previously played with such nuance and charm and personality was aged up so that she could be raped by her half-brother, engage in a petty, often hard to follow rivalry with her own niece, seem to have no specific life direction, vacillate from one boy to the next without any of it being remotely interesting, and now in a final stunner, date a man who was sent to prison for killing multiple women.

 

Why are they putting such effort into giving Ben a storyline that can redeem him and make him a player on the canvas for the foreseeable future when there has been no similar push to make Ciara a cohesive or remotely likeable character? I thought when she came back to the show it was because they had a sense of what they wanted to do with her. Instead, it just feels like they wanted another person on canvas to throw story ideas at just to see what sticks.

 

But the Ben thing bothers me most because I feel like she's just being used to facilitate a male character's arc. If Ciara can love Ben, then we're supposed to love him too, right?

Everything about her since the 50th just makes me bitter when I think about it. And it's too bad for VK that the writing really hasn't improved for her character at all because I don't think she's without talent.

Marvelous post, DisneyBoy, just marvelous!!

[methodwriter85]

I really think the SORAS only happened because the Powers that Be realized what an absolute shitshow the Paige/JJ teen scene was and they thought they could recreate the Last Blast Chance magic. The fact that Ciara and Claire are the only two remaining characters from that teen scene (with the actress playing Claire the only one actually FROM that teen scene) tells ya just about everything. I do think it's kind of funny that both Tripp and Ben seem like they got de-SORASED to be part of that scene. LOL.

And giving a rape storyline to a new actress was just a bad idea all around. Particularly one with a really bad case of mushmouth. I did think it was a major waste of Chase to have him go down as a rapist when he and Ciara had the cute kid history going on.

Also, they had posted an audition side with VJ and it seemed like they were going to go the teen Erica Kane vibe with her but somehow they 180'd on the character and made her the sickly sweet heroine. I do think VK has improved the character at least a little bit but god I wish that Lauren Boles could have been kept longer.

[tribeca]

I really love Sami Brady but so hated this last return.  Totally agreed with Kristin that Sami sounded like a broken record just saying where’s EJ over and over again.   I wish she had more scenes with Will.   

[howmanywords]

Quote

I do think it's kind of funny that both Tripp and Ben seem like they got de-SORASED to be part of that scene. LOL.

Let this one sink in - I was reminded on twitter the other day that way back when Abigail and Ben were talking about getting married that Abby wanted Ciara to be a flowergirl heh.

[Harmony233]

7 minutes ago, howmanywords said:

Let this one sink in - I was reminded on twitter the other day that way back when Abigail and Ben were talking about getting married that Abby wanted Ciara to be a flowergirl heh.

I'm one of the days of days interviews RSW said when he got the script and seen the name ciaria and he was like wasn't she like a 12 year old girl lol.

[DisneyBoy]

It's a small thing to be bitter about in the grand scheme of things, but if they had the money to do an all-white set for Marlena's trip into the Afterlife, couldn't they have thrown some paint on Eric's apartment so that it didn't look exactly like Nicole's old apartment in Nashville?

For Pete's sake, Eric was in both those storylines!

[bobcat1946]

On 11/14/2018 at 8:43 AM, tribeca said:

I really love Sami Brady but so hated this last return.  Totally agreed with Kristin that Sami sounded like a broken record just saying where’s EJ over and over again.   I wish she had more scenes with Will.   

Kristin who was John John John and then Brady Brady Brady Brady is the last person who could say anything without being a hypocrite.

[DisneyBoy]

True true true.

[tribeca]

Mean mean mean all of them are hypocrites. 

[DisneyBoy]

Yay! I love that you made the "mean, mean, mean" reference. I almost did, but I feel like I repeat it too often as it is. Thank you for putting a smile on my face 🙂

[bobcat1946]

Still bitter about what the writers have done to Gabi.  Not all the money in the world would be worth having sex with Stefan,.

[Silver Raven]

1 hour ago, bobcat1946 said:

Still bitter about what the writers have done to Gabi.  Not all the money in the world would be worth having sex with Stefan,.

Give her a break, she hasn't had a man for a while.  😄

[superdeluxe]

15 hours ago, bobcat1946 said:

Still bitter about what the writers have done to Gabi.  Not all the money in the world would be worth having sex with Stefan,.

And Gabi is supposed to be a Ron favorite.  Well, technically his dad’s favorite, but still.

[tribeca]

Tripp, Claire and Ciara are young healthy people who seem to have zero goals.  None of them go to school  

Claire use to want to be a singer now she just wants to with Tripp.  

Tripp at one time was going to be a doctor. I think after Kayla revenge that’s off the table.  Then it seemed like he might go work with John and Steve   Now he just around I guess.  

Ciara is all about Ben. I don’t know much else about her except everyone loves her except for Claire. 

[CanaryFan98]

16 minutes ago, tribeca said:

Tripp, Claire and Ciara are young healthy people who seem to have zero goals.  None of them go to school  

Claire use to want to be a singer now she just wants to with Tripp.  

Tripp at one time was going to be a doctor. I think after Kayla revenge that’s off the table.  Then it seemed like he might go work with John and Steve   Now he just around I guess.  

Ciara is all about Ben. I don’t know much else about her except everyone loves her except for Claire. 

Actually Claire and Ciara referenced school when they talked about Ciara going to the library and Claire mentioned something about a paper. 

[tribeca]

Thank you 

i never see them with books or on computer studying or talking about class being canceled so assumed they were not in college.   

[bobcat1946]

On 5/13/2019 at 1:57 PM, superdeluxe said:

And Gabi is supposed to be a Ron favorite.  Well, technically his dad’s favorite, but still.

I would hate to see what Ron would do to Gabi if she was not the favorite.

[CanaryFan98]

23 minutes ago, bobcat1946 said:

I would hate to see what Ron would do to Gabi if she was not the favorite.

She wouldn't get airtime or would be off the show. That being said Gabi has it better than most because she gets airtime and is still on the frontburner even if the story sucks. But everyone on this show has a story that sucks.

[Katy M]

On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 8:12 PM, CanaryFan98 said:

She wouldn't get airtime or would be off the show. That being said Gabi has it better than most because she gets airtime and is still on the frontburner even if the story sucks. But everyone on this show has a story that sucks.

I find the whole thing just completely icky.  Gabi is basically being a prostitute with Brady as her pimp.  And, even though she and Stephan despise each other, they still can't keep their hands off each other because they're animals?  I mean I realize Gabi has her ulterior motives, but I feel like it's more than that.  And Stephan is supposed to be in love with Chloe, or want Chloe, or something, and he still has to take Gabi to bed every chance he gets.

Plus, Gabi is a willing participant, but every sex scene I've seen with them always starts with him grabbing her hands and holding her down.  What's up with that?

[DisneyBoy]

Misogyny? Rape culture? Both?

Pretty much the only thing working about their storyline is the fact that BB and CB seem to be having fun in their scenes together or at least have some chemistry. The rest I'm trying hard not to think about. I'm actually really relieved that this isn't the original Stefan tossing her into bed. I would have been completely enraged. As it plays out now, it feels a little bit more like a screwball comedy, thanks to the fact that the part was recast.

But I totally hear you, and I'll be very glad to see Gabi with a good guy again (*ahem*JJ*ahem*)

[CanaryFan98]

4 hours ago, Katy M said:

I find the whole thing just completely icky.  Gabi is basically being a prostitute with Brady as her pimp.  And, even though she and Stephan despise each other, they still can't keep their hands off each other because they're animals?  I mean I realize Gabi has her ulterior motives, but I feel like it's more than that.  And Stephan is supposed to be in love with Chloe, or want Chloe, or something, and he still has to take Gabi to bed every chance he gets.

Plus, Gabi is a willing participant, but every sex scene I've seen with them always starts with him grabbing her hands and holding her down.  What's up with that?

I agree Gabi is being a whore here but Brady isn't pimping her out I mean even he backed out of the whole thing its all Gabi's idea at this point. Plus its not like he's forcing her to do this he brought it up and she took it further. If Gabi had any self respect she would say no but she doesn't so...

[CanaryFan98]

Just now, DisneyBoy said:

Misogyny? Rape culture? Both?

Pretty much the only thing working about their storyline is the fact that BB and CB seem to be having fun in their scenes together or at least have some chemistry. The rest I'm trying hard not to think about. I'm actually really relieved that this isn't the original Stefan tossing her into bed. I would have been completely enraged. As it plays out now, it feels a little bit more like a screwball comedy, thanks to the fact that the part was recast.

But I totally hear you, and I'll be very glad to see Gabi with a good guy again (*ahem*JJ*ahem*)

This show isn't putting those two together again I mean I used to like them but I can't picture them together anymore. They both are so different from how they used to be its no longer palatable. 

I need JJ to go back to being bad again before he's in any pairing(despite this thing with Haley which I think is something the show is committed to).

Stefan/Gabi do have chemistry unfortunately they don't have a decent writer to capitalize on it either.

[Katy M]

12 minutes ago, CanaryFan98 said:

I agree Gabi is being a whore here but Brady isn't pimping her out I mean even he backed out of the whole thing its all Gabi's idea at this point. Plus its not like he's forcing her to do this he brought it up and she took it further. If Gabi had any self respect she would say no but she doesn't so...

I haven't watched for a little while.  And, yeah, I know that Brady didn't force her and I agree she's 100% responsible for her own actions and decisions.  But, it still took him down quite a few notches in my estimation that he even suggested such a thing. For material gain, or control of a company.  Blech.

Everybody involved in this is disgusting. Brady for suggesting it.  Gabi for doing it. And Stephan for not being able to control his urges.  

Did I mention blech?

[bobcat1946]

Brady only dropped the idea when he found out Chloe was not into him.

[CanaryFan98]

And Gabi's dumbass went along with it. She could've said no even Brady gave her the opportunity to back out she chose not to. I get people don't like Brady and he has his issues but at some point these women need to look in the mirror here.

[bobcat1946]

Yep Gabi went along with it but it was Brady's evil mind that thought it up.

I think the writer must hate women.

Edited May 29, 2019 by bobcat1946

[WendyCR72]

59 minutes ago, bobcat1946 said:

Yep Gabi went along with it but it was Brady's evil mind that thought it up.

I think the writer must hate women.

Sure, Brady had a bad idea. But to his credit, he recognized it and backed off. Nope, this is ALL on Gabi at this point. If she respects herself so damned little (even if she and Stefan are hot), she should find a shrink and deal with it.

Brady has a lot of faults, but as far as I am concerned, this is not one of them.

[bobcat1946]

29 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Sure, Brady had a bad idea. But to his credit, he recognized it and backed off. Nope, this is ALL on Gabi at this point. If she respects herself so damned little (even if she and Stefan are hot), she should find a shrink and deal with it.

Brady has a lot of faults, but as far as I am concerned, this is not one of them.

He only recognized it because he found out that Chloe was not into him.

[CanaryFan98]

19 minutes ago, bobcat1946 said:

He only recognized it because he found out that Chloe was not into him.

And yet Gabi still went along with it all on her own afterwards so... I don't recall seeing Brady threaten her or point a gun to her head.

Edited May 29, 2019 by CanaryFan98

[WendyCR72]

11 minutes ago, CanaryFan98 said:

And yet Gabi still went along with it all on her own afterwards so... I don't recall seeing Brady threaten her or point a gun to her head.

Exactly. Whatever the case, Brady dropped the subject. It is FULLY ON GABI that she chose not to ignore it and proceeded to let herself be used. She is not mentally incapacitated.

[CanaryFan98]

On 6/6/2018 at 7:36 PM, Apprentice79 said:

She also tried to kill his father twice and set him up as his dad's attacker. She used his alcoholism against him, to make him believe that he assaulted his own father. She also tried to set up their son's nanny,  to make her look, neglectful. She falsely accused Xander of attempted rape and manipulated Melanie into leaving town and Brady. I feel bad for her, having been a sex slave. However, I still think that she is a terrible person.

I can't believe I missed this post that's exactly how I feel although I feel her being a sex slave is rather karmic considering she lied about Xander attempting to rape her. Theresa has always been terrible and I don't mind terrible characters if we were given proper motivation as to why they're that way. Theresa is rancid for the sake of being rancid.

I do like JL in other roles but as Theresa I want to take her by the head and smash it into concrete till she bleeds to death.

[boes]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Exactly. Whatever the case, Brady dropped the subject. It is FULLY ON GABI that she chose not to ignore it and proceeded to let herself be used. She is not mentally incapacitated.

But isn't Gabi using him to get control of DiMera?  She's not a victim in this, is she?

[bannana]

1 hour ago, boes said:

But isn't Gabi using him to get control of DiMera?  She's not a victim in this, is she?

Yeah, Gabi has a plan and she is all in.  It may not be a righteous plan, but it is all Gabi.

[Katy M]

4 hours ago, bannana said:

Yeah, Gabi has a plan and she is all in.  It may not be a righteous plan, but it is all Gabi.

But, the plan will fail when they fall in loooove.  Barf.