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Bitterness Thread

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Bitter that they ruined what could have been a perfect trifecta of female empowerment that is Kate/Nicole/Theresa by turning Kate into a completely irrational hateful bitch for no real reason.

 

Bitter that Dan is damn near half the casts moral compass against which they measure themselves - what would Daniel do indeed. 

 

Bitter that Theresa/Brady are now this insta-love couple. Why exactly??

 

Bitter that Theresa and Abby have babies and Nicole still doesn't. 

 

Bitter that the show never recast Josh Taylor's Roman. I get that they cannot get the original back but at least bring in someone hot and viable. There isn't a scenario in this world where I would want to see JT in a kissing scene, let alone a love scene. I don't even want to see him flirty. Ugh! Always secretly wanted Robert Newman (Joshua, Guiding Light) to play Roman as I thought he and Ali (Samantha) could totally pass as father/daughter.

 

guiding-light-newman52.jpg

 

Speaking of Guiding Light, although I am liking the outdoor on location shoots, part of me fears that Days might go the way of GL in its final years with the hand cam way of shooting. 

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I'm bitter that I have to see a shrine to Daniel Jonas and Will Horton cannot even be mentioned anymore. Dan was mourned for a month and will be talked about everyday because of this design plot with Nicole and Theresa. Will's last months on the show were awful but instead of moving him away before they could find the right recast he was murdered. I will forever hate that.

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I will never not be bitter about Will being killed, and Sami, Kate, and Lucas NOT being allowed to properly mourn and avenge Will's death.  They never should have killed Will off, but the lousy SL Sami, Kate and Lucas got in regards to Will's death was just as bad.

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I'm bitter that I have to see a shrine to Daniel Jonas and Will Horton cannot even be mentioned anymore. Dan was mourned for a month and will be talked about everyday because of this design plot with Nicole and Theresa. Will's last months on the show were awful but instead of moving him away before they could find the right recast he was murdered. I will forever hate that.

 

 

I will never not be bitter about Will being killed, and Sami, Kate, and Lucas NOT being allowed to properly mourn and avenge Will's death.  They never should have killed Will off, but the lousy SL Sami, Kate and Lucas got in regards to Will's death was just as bad.

 

Join the club. We have tShirts and monogrammed hankies. 

I don't care how much people get tired of us saying it but:

WE WILL NEVER STOP BEING BITTER ABOUT WILL'S DEATH.

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...and the events of the months preceding it.

Goes without saying...his character assassination before his actual assassination. 

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I'm bitter because they wasted Aiden in this boring Aiden/Hope pairing when they could have tested him with Kayla instead. That would have been a more compelling story for Steve/Kayla than this ridiculous shit they're stuck in with Joey right now.

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I like the concept of Steve and Kayla...the writers just don't know how to actually do it.

I think Aiden and Nicole could have been good.

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On 6/4/2016 at 1:31 PM, Sidney said:

I'm bitter because they wasted Aiden in this boring Aiden/Hope pairing when they could have tested him with Kayla instead. That would have been a more compelling story for Steve/Kayla than this ridiculous shit they're stuck in with Joey right now.

I was thinking that, too. I loved the Kayla/Aiden meet-cute before the WilSon wedding.They were adorbs.

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1 hour ago, swtrgrl said:

I was thinking that, too. I loved the Kayla/Aiden meet-cute before the WilSon wedding.They were adorbs.

I too wanted Kaiden instead of Haiden...They sparkled together...Both were professionals and single parents to sons....I always wanted Kayla to have a guy, other than Steve...Plus, Kayla getting involved with a shady guy like Aiden would have been interesting to see, given her history with Steve...

Edited by Apprentice79
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It's sad how they have watered down Nicole's character and made her so unwatchable for me. Hopefully the writing change can fix her.

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Theresa hasn't even interacted with anyone from her Brady family in months. I'm mad now that she's leaving they isolated her with Brady/Victor and Summer's Eve so long she never got to do anything else. At least in the first year or two she got along with Eric. Then nothing. Caroline wasn't even at the engagement party if I remember. 

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5 hours ago, Bwill3133 said:

Theresa hasn't even interacted with anyone from her Brady family in months. I'm mad now that she's leaving they isolated her with Brady/Victor and Summer's Eve so long she never got to do anything else. At least in the first year or two she got along with Eric. Then nothing. Caroline wasn't even at the engagement party if I remember. 

I am bitter that I never saw Max, Chelsea, Theresa, Shawn-Douglas, Eric, Sami, Brady,Carrie, Ciara, Zack, Belle, Andrew, Joey, Stefanie interact the way that Kayla, Roman, Kimberly, Bo and Rojohn interacted with one another....We had a scene years ago with all of the cousins minus Chelsea, Belle, Ciara, Zack and Joey as children and Sherry Anderson was setting up some interesting dynamics for them as adults...The possibilities for good stories for the next generation of the Brady family were there and they squandered it..

Edited by Apprentice79
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I'm bitter because I think, with the returning veterans, the producers will overlook Anne and her contributions to the show. It's crazy that she wasn't a part of the Tate kidnapping storyline and now I'm starting to think she won't even attend the wedding between Theresa and Brady. She's arguably the most fun character the show has had on in the last 3 years. 

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I am bitter because....

 

Taniel is still being mourned 

Failure returned

Aiden was thrown under a bus......again 

Eric was ruined 

Theresa's exit was ridiculous 

Another egg baby is about to hatch

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Ok days I just tried four times to see Tuesday 's show on two devices.  I don't understand why they make it so difficult. 

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I'm bitter that Lucas and Sami are not going to live happily ever after and are never ever getting back together.

I am not bitter about that. Not since he smacked her in the face, way back when.

I am bitter that they sorased  Claire, Ciara and Theo so drastically when they were actually more likeable as children. I think it would have resonated more if Ciara was still a child when Hope was sent away to prison for killing Stefano.

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The thing that was really annoying about Ciara's SORASing was that she was a kid playing monopoly with Aidan and Chase the week before Hope's wedding and then she's a teenager at the wedding.  Logically speaking that would mean that Hope and Aidan were together for like 10 years.  But, I detest SORASing in general.  This particular one was just really really really ill-timed.

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12 hours ago, Katy M said:

The thing that was really annoying about Ciara's SORASing was that she was a kid playing monopoly with Aidan and Chase the week before Hope's wedding and then she's a teenager at the wedding.  Logically speaking that would mean that Hope and Aidan were together for like 10 years.  But, I detest SORASing in general.  This particular one was just really really really ill-timed.

And if Hope and Aiden were together for 10 years or so she should've been much more conflicted about her feelings for him after he/the doppelganger tried to kill her on their wedding night, she should've been devastated over his "death", she shouldn't have been so quick to hop back into Bo's bed, and she should've considered Chase one of her kids, making it difficult for her to completely turn on him after he raped Ciara. 

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I am bitter because:

On the great "romance day: of days...

  • Sonny got sanctimonious to Kate about her concerns over PaulSon vs WilSon...and she caved.
  • Sonny thinks in his stupid Guido head  that Will would want him to be happy and move on romantically...WITH PAUL. (No, Queen. Just, no)
  • PaulSon had sex for the first time (this go 'round) on WilSon's anniversary. (Worse than stalking on Will's grave)
  • Even though Chabby got a "hot" sexy time bedroom scene, we barely got a chaste PaulSon kiss.
  • Adrienne got to pick a man. WTF? Stay with Justin and leave Lucas to have fun with Anne. Keep your miserable self to yo self.
Edited by swtrgrl
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I'm posting this in the Bitterness Thread because I'm really frustrated about the situation with Abigail.

 

The recasting of the character was absolutely the right move - Kate Mansi was smug and entitled and not a very good actress and I couldn't bear to watch her for one more minute - but Marci Miller is so different that I almost feel like we're being robbed of the Real Abigail. Which makes me kind of crazy because I didn't even like the real Abigail.

 

Maybe it was the way they wrote Mansi out. We got to see her go crazy, which was frankly the most fun I had with the character in years, but then the way she left made it clear she was really unhealthy. Now we have Miller back as the character and she did fairly good job of playing fragile and emotionally unstable or mentally unstable last fall, but it just doesn't seem like her character has done the work to get healthy again. It just kind of felt like she hoped no one would hurt her feelings if she came back to Chad and picked up where they left off even though they never really left off anywhere because by the time they were getting married original Abigail was already losing it.

I don't believe for a second that Marci Miller's Abigail climbed Mount EJ (as you all so vividly like to put it) and I don't believe that she drugged Austin and I don't believe that she ever dated Ben for a hot second. It's like the entire character's history no longer applies to this new version even though I know they're trying to make this version pick up where the last one left off.

I like this new Abigail and I sympathize with her and that's really frustrating. Her having to walk away from her marriage because Chad seems more interested in Gabi should be a wonderful victory for us the viewers after years of watching Abigail always win in every situation regardless of how badly she acted. It doesn't feel that way.

I, like some the rest of you, would be thrilled to see Kate Mansi's Abigail have to realize she isn't the hottest person in the room and her husband wants to stray. I would also like to see her broken down after having made terrible decisions like lying to Ben and inadvertently being responsible for his murders (in a way) and kidnapping Thomas and trying to run and setting the mental hospital on fire and faking her death, etc. Kate Mansi as Abigail pulled a lot of shit and I don't feel like she's been called out on it.

...but at the same time I almost don't want this new Abigail called out on it because she's a nicer person. But I do want her called out on it! Do you see what I'm getting at here? I feel like we never got to see Abigail get the comeuppance she so richly deserved but now this storyline is kind of giving us that but with a completely different person that we don't have any reason to hate.

And it would have been even better with Kate Mansi because she actually seemed to have chemistry with Billy Flynn. And I used to feel badly for his Chad because it was clear Abigail was ruling the relationship and was so unstable you wouldn't ever want to contradict her. With Miller I feel like Chad has a much weaker wife who's more sensitive and easy going so he's free to walk away and that sort of makes Chad look like a bit more of an ass. So now I like Chad less!

Marci Miller would have been a great person to play Abigail let's say in the beginning of the Ben storyline. I think she would have been able to sell us on the idea that Abigail actually saw something really wonderful in Ben and on some level couldn't help but gravitate back to Chad and then lie about it. I might have been able to sympathize with Abigail even because I think Marci Miller would have been able to make her sympathetic. And if they had Miller for the whole Necktie Killer business then we might not have had the Abigail goes nuts storyline that followed to write out Mansi. So hypothetically we wouldn't even be in the situation we are in now.

I guess I'm just really frustrated and bitter that the thing I thought I always wanted - a better actress playing the part and the writers making adjustments after so many years of Abigail being an unlikable trollop - can't be enjoyed because Kate Mansi's time with the character has so set her course.

I want to see Abigail go through months of intensive therapy and browbeat herself for being so self-centered and such a two-timer but I don't want to see Marci Miller do that. So I'm just bitter. Is anybody else in the same boat?

Edited by DisneyBoy
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57 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

Maybe it was the way they wrote Mansi out. We got to see her go crazy, which was frankly the most fun I had with the character in years, but then the way she left made it clear she was really unhealthy. Now we have Miller back as the character and she did fairly good job of playing fragile and emotionally unstable or mentally unstable last fall, but it just doesn't seem like her character has done the work to get healthy again. It just kind of felt like she hoped no one would hurt her feelings if she came back to Chad and picked up where they left off even though they never really left off anywhere because by the time they were getting married original Abigail was already losing it.

It was interesting... I was more a fan of Mansi's Abby than most here, but I lost patience with Abby losing her mind at a certain point, because it all just seemed performative.  I couldn't understand where the story was taking her, and realized I wasn't interested in going though the motions of Abby getting better.  There was no story in it.

57 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

I don't believe for a second that Marci Miller's Abigail climbed Mount EJ (as you all so vividly like to put it) and I don't believe that she drugged Austin and I don't believe that she ever dated Ben for a hot second. It's like the entire character's history no longer applies to this new version even though I know they're trying to make this version pick up where the last one left off.

That's a good point... it often happens with recasts that it's almost like a new character, but tying Abby so much to the events in the past year makes it hard to give Miller the license to create her own version.

I think they brought her back too soon, and whiffed Chad's story in the meantime.  If VJ were a better actress, I'd rather they stuck with Ciara falling in love with an oblivious grieving Chad, becoming obsessed with him, and kidnapping the baby when he rejected her. 

Edited by lska
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I like both Kate and Marci, but I totally understand what your saying DisneyBoy.

Most of the times with recasts you just have to go with the flow I think.  Even if they had brought Kate's sister on as Abby it would be different, everyone brings a different vibe and personality.  I mean, could you see Billy Flynn's version of Chad being a model like Casey's was?  Or wearing skinny jeans? lol.

I'm bitter that I wanted Sonny back after he left and now that he's back I want him gone again.  I don't know what happened but Freddie Smith lost all the charm he had during his original run.

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I'm glad I'm not alone.

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Most of the times with recasts you just have to go with the flow I think.  Even if they had brought Kate's sister on as Abby it would be different, everyone brings a different vibe and personality.  I mean, could you see Billy Flynn's version of Chad being a model like Casey's was?  Or wearing skinny jeans? lol.

Billy felt like an extension of the character though. It helps that the writing was decent, and made him a bit bitter and a bit mysterious after being off the canvas for so long and in the aftermath of taking a bullet for his brother only to end up having his brother betray him. I believed when Chad came back that he would want to be more of a businessman, take his life seriously and in some way outshine EJ. Besides, once we knew Stefano had a new young son, it was only a matter of time before he moved into the family business. Billy Flynn works best when Chad is a businessman. I really can't picture his version of the character being anything other than that, whether a model or a grocer.

In this case however, I would have expected Abigai regardless of who was playing her, to return either being someone much more self-aware or someone much more emotionally messed up. Marci got to play the messed up part a bit at the beginning but she played it as fragile which wasn't an interesting contrast to who Marci seems to be. I think of Kate Mansi as a bit Alpha and driven and maybe even a bit mean, without knowing her personally of course. Marci reads as soft and easygoing. I could picture her sitting next to a faun in the middle of a forest, smiling peacefully. To see her Abigail broken-down in the fall might have picked up where the narrative last off months earlier, but it doesn't feel right. She didn't seem healed after all of those months with her grandmother nor did she seem driven to get back with Chad and her son. If anything she kind of seemed beaten. Am I making sense? Basically Billy Flynn stepped in to play that the type of Chad I think made sense at that time in the show. This Abigail seems like we skipped a step somewhere. That maybe she should have been the next recast after the current one.

I can't think about this anymore. It's making me even more bitter, LOL.

I do agree that it can be difficult with recasts though. I remember when Robin Christopher took over for Alicia Coppola as a Lorna on Another World. That one was tricky even though both were great actresses. Coppola was fierce and intimidating and angry and driven with a deep well of emotion behind her steely exterior. Christopher had a very different look and seemed much more in touch with her emotions and much more personable even though she was still thorny. It took a while to adjust to the idea that this redhead had the same history as the raven-haired woman we had gotten to know but I think Christopher did a good job building a bridge between those two interpretations.

Again I think Miller is doing wonderful work but I'm just left wishing the show would have forced her to play up the bitch a little bit more in her Abigail so I could still feel like this was old Abigail in the process of dealing with her mistakes and her fears.

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I do think that in time that Marci can bring out the nastiness in Abigail that was there when Kate played the role. I think Marci reminds me a bit of Ashley Benson who was a fantastic Abigail and she was super close to Chelsea, Nick and Max .  They formed a nice quad that really meshed well with each other.  The obsessive trait of Abigail's was even present with Ashley Benson's version. It is one of the reasons that she had a close bond with Nick.  They got each other and their sibling/cousin relationship was endearing. The problem with Kate's version of Abigail was that the show failed to connect her obsessive qualities to her Johnson genes that she inherited from her dad Jack. It was  a harbinger for her despicable acts with EJ and Austin. Jack's obsession with Steve and Kayla almost destroyed him. Nick's obsessions resulted in his incarceration and death later, at the hands of Gabi.  If the show had embraced Abigail's darkness, instead of whitewashing it, it would have made her into a complex anti-heroine fighting to resist her dark impulses and do right by others.

Edited by Apprentice79
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I wish the show would remember that JJ and Abigail are Johnson's as well as Horton's, but the writers have forgotten, I'm afraid.  When JJ found out that Jack raped Kayla, it seemed like it could be the start to a great storyline with JJ going "Johnson."  Instead it was dropped and he went on like nothing ever happened.  The Johnson family is dark, with a rapist/abusive grandfather, an aunt who murdered him after he raped her. Jack doing all he did to hurt Steve and Kayla.  Jo killing Nick (or am I remembering that wrong?).  Steve's past before he met Kayla and turned his life around.  Then again, when I think of "what could be" I remember the current writing staff and shake my head and hope the new staff brings new life to the show. 

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3 minutes ago, Lisa418722 said:

I wish the show would remember that JJ and Abigail are Johnson's as well as Horton's, but the writers have forgotten, I'm afraid.  When JJ found out that Jack raped Kayla, it seemed like it could be the start to a great storyline with JJ going "Johnson."  Instead it was dropped and he went on like nothing ever happened.  The Johnson family is dark, with a rapist/abusive grandfather, an aunt who murdered him after he raped her. Jack doing all he did to hurt Steve and Kayla.  Jo killing Nick (or am I remembering that wrong?).  Steve's past before he met Kayla and turned his life around.  Then again, when I think of "what could be" I remember the current writing staff and shake my head and hope the new staff brings new life to the show. 

You are correct.  Jo killed Nick Correlli for "killing" Steve. It was a premeditated murder and she faked insanity with Jack's help to get away with it.

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Just now, Apprentice79 said:

You are correct.  Jo killed Nick Correlli for "killing" Steve. It was a premeditated murder and she faked insanity with Jack's help to get away with it.

Thanks for the confirmation.  I thought so, but as I was typing it, I thought "maybe I'm wrong." 

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1 minute ago, Lisa418722 said:

Thanks for the confirmation.  I thought so, but as I was typing it, I thought "maybe I'm wrong." 

You welcome! The Johnson family drama was such a dark story and had so much depth and heart to it.  I wish that the show would also include Sonny with the Johnsons. He was named after Steve and Jack..

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3 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

I do agree that it can be difficult with recasts though. I remember when Robin Christopher took over for Alicia Coppola as a Lorna on Another World. That one was tricky even though both were great actresses. Coppola was fierce and intimidating and angry and driven with a deep well of emotion behind her steely exterior. Christopher had a very different look and seemed much more in touch with her emotions and much more personable even though she was still thorny. It took a while to adjust to the idea that this redhead had the same history as the raven-haired woman we had gotten to know but I think Christopher did a good job building a bridge between those two interpretations.

Again I think Miller is doing wonderful work but I'm just left wishing the show would have forced her to play up the bitch a little bit more in her Abigail so I could still feel like this was old Abigail in the process of dealing with her mistakes and her fears.

I'm a new viewer so I can't speak to your Marci vs. Kate issues but I just have to say I love the correlation to Alicia and Robin on Another World. It was just such a drastic change that could not have worked without Robin being such a terrific actress.

I'm also reminded of the change in Carly's on General Hospital from Sarah Brown to Tamara Braun to Jennifer Bransford and now Laura Wright. Each such different actresses but where I could buy the change in character from Sarah to Tamara I couldn't from Tamara to Jennifer. The change was so drastic in character and Jennifer (bless her heart) just didn't work as Carly at all. And then they made Laura's version a hybrid of Sarah and Tamara's versions and Laura was able to make that work.

Re-casts are almost always a crap shoot and sometimes it's just too jarring a change. Since I didn't experience Kate Mansi's version of Abby I think I have less issues than you do with it. But I do absolutely understand where you're coming from.

Edited by SanLynn · Reason: Edited for Clarity

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Consider yourself lucky to have missed Mansi's take on the character. She started out alright but then just became insufferable and entitled and super super smug.

Quote

If the show had embraced Abigail's darkness, instead of whitewashing it, it would have made her into a complex anti-heroine fighting to resist her dark impulses and do right by others.

See, that's kind of where I thought the character would be now. I mean she hasn't exactly been stable this past year. Wouldn't an ordinary person take stock of that and ask themselves if they are a darker person than they thought they were? Abigail played an active role in all of the terrible stuff that happened to her. Yes, she was victimized by Ben to a large degree, but she also made really drastic choices and lost control of her life to the point where she had to run away after setting a building on fire. A building with sick, vulnerable people in it. I absolutely do not get that from current Abigail. The writing is all "she was traumatized and now she's just trying to hold on to her marriage!" It sweeps under the rug so many of Abigail's character traits that it's hard to get invested in what's happening right now.

And what's sad is the writers would be having so much more fun if they built on the reality that Abigail might be kind of dangerous or not yet fully healed from her traumas. Think of all the different ways they can play that! They could have even had Chad admitting to Gabby that he'd had some doubts about his deceased wife's mental state before her "death"...while still-alive Abigail was listening in! That would have been so much fun. But no, let's make this new version of Abigail meek so the audience won't hate her as much as they did the previous version. The worst I can see Miller doing is having a crying fit and passing out on the floor. Kate Mansi's Abigail? Who knows! The girl slapped Sami Brady after sleeping with her husband!

I'm just telling myself the new Abigail is heavily sedated. I think she said a while back that she was on meds now on a regular basis, not that the show ever references it.

Edited by DisneyBoy
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I definitely get where you're coming from - how much fun to watch Jen finally see her "honey " was never as sweet as everyone told her. And  oh did she love hearing it with the stare and mouth open grin. I think nnt knows what's what but I'm still bitter about Jen never having the serious discussion with Abby when she had the pregnancy scare with e j. It should have been the mother of all talks. She should have been told her behavior for years was dangerous mean and most of the relatives want nothing to do with them. In my dreams Sami smacked her back hard enough to knock her off her feet. 

Mostly I'm bitter because I'm still feeling Abby derangement syndrome because she sucked every bit of patience I might have had for even moderately annoying characters.  I  don't have a d vr so I  sat through all of it.   Sigh.  

Another bad miscast was eve. I know some of you like the actress but I remember Charlotte Ross and k d p was not eve!  All to give Jen Lilly a relative.  and bother jen hee hee. I found her loud drawl and over the top acting highly annoying and I hope she never comes back. Thank goodness for the mute button. 

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8 minutes ago, QuelleC said:

Another bad miscast was eve. I know some of you like the actress but I remember Charlotte Ross and k d p was not eve!  All to give Jen Lilly a relative.  and bother jen hee hee. I found her loud drawl and over the top acting highly annoying and I hope she never comes back. Thank goodness for the mute button. 

I agree.  She was fine as Blair on OLTL and GH, but she was so not Eve.  And, it's kind of crazy, because It'd been at least 15 years since Charlotte Ross had been on the show, so if any character shouldn't have had a recast issue, that was it. But, no, just no.

And, I'll do the opposite of bitterness for a sec since we're talking recasts.  I know he's not the greatest actor in the world, but I think Greg Vaughan was actually a fairly good recast. 

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Greg is definitely a find....if they'd only explore his range.

I found her loud drawl and over the top acting highly annoying and I hope she never comes back. 

The drawl bugs me too and I never even saw the original actress. Plus she looks way too old to be Charles Shaughnessy daughter. I like her otherwise though.

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Eric has been reinvented several times.  He's had plenty opportunity to be more than an adolescent ashamed of his sexy thoughts. I'm not sure he can do it.  He could make it work with Jen since the sight of him gives her tingles.  I miss ej.

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It may seem like an extreme reaction, but I want to scream every time I hear John refer to Steve as his best friend. Admittedly, I haven't been watching the show continuously over the decades like many of you have, but from what I remember John was far closer to Bo than Steve. John and Steve may run a business together but they never struck me as best friends. Wouldn't John still be close with Abe considering how often their lives intersected in the 90s? Now it seems like he doesn't have any friends in Salem. Abe that is, although I suppose that also applies to John.

It just feels like the show is reaching to try and suggest a deeper history than actually exists or is demonstrated on the show on a daily basis at present.

I just find it awkward. Something tells me these two wouldn't even have any time together on the show if they weren't the only two men left in their age group who could pass for action stars or heartthrobs for the audience. Abe and Victor, bless their hearts, are not in the sexy category.

 

Did John and Steve ever really become close buddies in the past?

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27 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

It may seem like an extreme reaction, but I want to scream every time I hear John refer to Steve as his best friend. Admittedly, I haven't been watching the show continuously over the decades like many of you have, but from what I remember John was far closer to Bo than Steve. John and Steve may run a business together but they never struck me as best friends. Wouldn't John still be close with Abe considering how often their lives intersected in the 90s? Now it seems like he doesn't have any friends in Salem. Abe that is, although I suppose that also applies to John.

It just feels like the show is reaching to try and suggest a deeper history than actually exists or is demonstrated on the show on a daily basis at present.

I just find it awkward. Something tells me these two wouldn't even have any time together on the show if they weren't the only two men left in their age group who could pass for action stars or heartthrobs for the audience. Abe and Victor, bless their hearts, are not in the sexy category.

 

Did John and Steve ever really become close buddies in the past?

I feel the same way.  It feels like the pairing up of Maggie and Victor  - put the two old people together because ...... they're there.

Steve and John - make them best buds because ..... because??

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I don't know. John, when Roman, interacted a lot with his (then) brother-in-law through various villain chasing. I can buy his declaration. Even if I do agree that John and Bo had a great bond, when he was Roman and after.

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I also think it's more from the time when John thought he was Roman.  Steve rescued The Pawn (then known as Roman). They did work together through the late 80's (during the time Bo and Hope were sailing the world). Even when Steve "died" John was known as Roman.  I missed most of Steve's 2nd run, but I can't help but think their friendship came from the time they thought they were brothers-in-law.  

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It'd be nice to see that referenced. I can never remember that John once thought he was blood related to these people.

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4 hours ago, Lisa418722 said:

I also think it's more from the time when John thought he was Roman.  Steve rescued The Pawn (then known as Roman). They did work together through the late 80's (during the time Bo and Hope were sailing the world). Even when Steve "died" John was known as Roman.  I missed most of Steve's 2nd run, but I can't help but think their friendship came from the time they thought they were brothers-in-law.  

Plus, he witnessed the love story between Steve and Kayla and all that they went through; he also gave that awesome toast at their iconic first wedding.  I will always prefer John as Roman. He was such an engaging character, as Roman, much more so than John.  The show made John too stupid to live at times, especially, during the Kristen years..

I do think that the show is too heavy-handed in saying that they are best friends, but, the show refuses to reference John's years, as Roman.  It would give the John/Kayla estrangement more depth, by drawing from their history, as siblings.

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It's just simple soap opera math, guys.

Steve + Bo = Best Friends
John + Bo = Best Friends
Steve - Bo = Steve Needs a New Best Friend
John - Bo = John Needs a New Best Friend
Steve Needs a New Best Friend + John Needs a New Best Friend = Steve and John are Best Friends

Et ... voila!

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6 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

I do think that the show is too heavy-handed in saying that they are best friends, but, the show refuses to reference John's years, as Roman.  It would give the John/Kayla estrangement more depth, by drawing from their history, as siblings.

Yeah, if it is supposed to be about those years, then it is strange that they never reference Kayla and Roman's sibling bond.  Steve and Roman were parts of some of the same adventure stories, but I remember their relationship mostly as a brother-in-law one.

Even Steve and Bo weren't the buddies that the show would have you remember... they were at odds for years.  My unpopular opinion is that Steve was much more interesting as a loner.  They could have used that again in 2006 or 2015, but never really tried.  Bo and Steve's relationship is great because of the story it reminds me of, but I don't think the buddy/bro stuff is that interesting without it.

The Kayla/Marlena relationship feels somewhat forced, too, although the show hasn't tied them together as tightly as Steve and John.

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10 minutes ago, lska said:

Yeah, if it is supposed to be about those years, then it is strange that they never reference Kayla and Roman's sibling bond.  Steve and Roman were parts of some of the same adventure stories, but I remember their relationship mostly as a brother-in-law one.

Even Steve and Bo weren't the buddies that the show would have you remember... they were at odds for years.  My unpopular opinion is that Steve was much more interesting as a loner.  They could have used that again in 2006 or 2015, but never really tried.  Bo and Steve's relationship is great because of the story it reminds me of, but I don't think the buddy/bro stuff is that interesting without it.

The Kayla/Marlena relationship feels somewhat forced, too, although the show hasn't tied them together as tightly as Steve and John.

Marlena was always closer to Kim, due to her marriage, to Roman and even after. Kim was the only one that Marlena spoke to about her confusion over John and Roman.  Kim was actually very supportive. I wish that Kim was on the show, when Marlena's affair was reveal. She probably would have been the only Brady, to stand with Marlena. 

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6 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

Marlena was always closer to Kim, due to her marriage, to Roman and even after. Kim was the only one that Marlena spoke to about her confusion over John and Roman.  Kim was actually very supportive. I wish that Kim was on the show, when Marlena's affair was reveal. She probably would have been the only Brady, to stand with Marlena. 

Yes, and Kayla always seemed genuinely closer to people like Adrienne and Hope, who she hasn't really interacted with in ages on the show.   She was very upset when Marlena "died" in 1986 and they overlapped some after she was found to be alive in 1991, but the story has never really given them a memorable bond.

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I'm bitter of the entire retcon of WilSon's demise.

Yes, Will cheated and it was wrong and stupid and came out of nowhere. I'm not justifying the cheating.

However:

  • No Will did not vapidly pursue Paul so he could get a story.
  • Yes, Paul put the moves on Will hard core.
  • No, Will was not the aggressor.

The re-write of this is maddening. 

Also, I'm bitter that Sonny is such a dick now. I know he's butt hurt over Will not wanting him but... Will doesn't remember him. Will was being honest by divorcing him. Sonny being a dick to Paul in the way he dumped him then throwing the "affair" from 2014 in their faces is just dumb. Will doesn't remember that. If it was so god awful an event in your life, Sonny then why the eff did you (still) want to be married to Will? If it's so horrible then move along.

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