S01.E04: A Decent Proposal

[secnarf]

Quote

Ben leaps to 1980s Los Angeles and into the body of Eva Sandoval, a no-nonsense bounty hunter in the midst of securing an elusive target. Ben remembers more about his own life.

Original air date: Oct 10 2022

[AnimeMania]

10pm     NBC

Justin Hartley as  Jake
Sofia Pernas as Tammy Jean
Anastasia Antonia as  Eva Sandoval
Tyson Turrou as Stuart 

[Chaos Theory]

I really like hearing the leap from the other point of view.  What happened when Sam leaped out and the person got their life back

I said yes to the nudge.

Say what you want about the new series the actor who plays Ben had actual chemistry with the dude who played the romantic interest with the woman he leaped into.  When Sam leaped into a woman it was mostly played for laughs.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Chaos Theory

[edhopper]

I liked Sam's flash dance outfit. This was a more interesting leap than the previous two.

[KaveDweller]

I thought this was a good episode. There was less time in the present so we got to know the leap characters more, and I felt a good connection to them. Plus, it had Justin Hartley.

I also liked hearing Magic talk about Sam's leap into him and what he remembered. And now we know he was a catalyst for re-starting the project.

[Irlandesa]

I think this was a pretty good episode.  The leap story was a lot of fun with twists and turns. It also was a significant part of the episode with less time spent in the present.  It was fun to learn about Magic's experiences and we didn't have evil mastermind Janice.

The only side eye I'm giving the show is that there was no kiss between Ben and Hartley's character.

I was surprised Ben remembered Addison was his girlfriend. I could have done without the hazy dream sequences, though.

[libgirl2]

6 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I think this was a pretty good episode.  The leap story was a lot of fun with twists and turns. It also was a significant part of the episode with less time spent in the present.  It was fun to learn about Magic's experiences and we didn't have evil mastermind Janice.

The only side eye I'm giving the show is that there was no kiss between Ben and Hartley's character.

I was surprised Ben remembered Addison was his girlfriend. I could have done without the hazy dream sequences, though.

I enjoyed the episode overall and I thought Ben had "chemistry" with Jake. Addison was okay this episode but I still don't care for the romance angle.

[bybrandy]

I’m on record as hating the romance angle but at least they didn’t string out Ben remembering. I guess they could have him forget again the next episode though. 
 

I liked hearing Magic’s story from Magic’s perspective. 
 

Ian is still my fave. 

[libgirl2]

10 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

I’m on record as hating the romance angle but at least they didn’t string out Ben remembering. I guess they could have him forget again the next episode though. 
 

I liked hearing Magic’s story from Magic’s perspective. 
 

Ian is still my fave. 

I have to say, I really enjoyed that part, especially the "nudge". 

If Ben doesn't forget the romance between him and Addison, can she be pulled as his hologram and replaced by Ian? Please! 

[iMonrey]

OK this wasn't bad, but they didn't really play up the fact that Ben had leaped into a woman. And I think they deliberately avoided an obvious laugh by not having the two characters kiss. It felt very lazy and/or cowardly to me. 

Quote

I liked hearing Magic’s story from Magic’s perspective. 

Yeah it was cool seeing the flashbacks to the original episode. But I'm still annoyed that they dropped the Waiting Room aspect of the project. I know Magic wouldn't necessarily remember being in the Waiting Room but it just reminded me that's where he should have gone.

Quote

I’m on record as hating the romance angle but at least they didn’t string out Ben remembering. 

Yeah I'll give them that at least. But Addison still isn't adding anything to the show. The dynamic between Sam and Al is really what's still missing in the formula here. Without an Al character the show lacks the charm and whimsy of the original. I don't know why reboots and remakes always have to go darker and grittier, it's like they totally don't understand what made the original so special.

[libgirl2]

8 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

OK this wasn't bad, but they didn't really play up the fact that Ben had leaped into a woman. And I think they deliberately avoided an obvious laugh by not having the two characters kiss. It felt very lazy and/or cowardly to me. 

Yeah it was cool seeing the flashbacks to the original episode. But I'm still annoyed that they dropped the Waiting Room aspect of the project. I know Magic wouldn't necessarily remember being in the Waiting Room but it just reminded me that's where he should have gone.

Yeah I'll give them that at least. But Addison still isn't adding anything to the show. The dynamic between Sam and Al is really what's still missing in the formula here. Without an Al character the show lacks the charm and whimsy of the original. I don't know why reboots and remakes always have to go darker and grittier, it's like they totally don't understand what made the original so special.

I think you described what is missing perfectly, charm and whimsy. I don't mind some grittiness but it needs more of both of those. There are moments that I am seeing small glimpses of it, but it isn't enough. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by libgirl2

[Rose Quartz]

32 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

I’m on record as hating the romance angle but at least they didn’t string out Ben remembering. I guess they could have him forget again the next episode though. 
 

I liked hearing Magic’s story from Magic’s perspective. 
 

Ian is still my fave. 

I'll co-sign pretty much everything you said.  🙂

In the original show there was some pushback from fans once they learned Sam and Donna were married because he slept with other women in various leaps.  Maybe they're having Ben remember Addison right away to avoid this issue.  Hopefully he won't forget her again. It would be cruel to make us have to watch more of those hazy dream sequences - as someone else said, they were pretty bad.

I also really liked hearing Magic's story and Ian's reaction to it.  At least now we have a reasonable explanation of how Magic got involved with the project.  It's interesting that he remembered the "nudge".  If that's the case for all leapees, the original Quantum Leap team could have used them to prove that the project worked.  If the government shut down the project knowing that time travel was possible and that Sam was still out there, that's pretty harsh.

I'm obviously watching this for the connection to the original, but of all the completely new characters Ian is the standout to me.  Their joke about missing out on Ben's first gender expanding experience reminded me a lot of Al and they just give off a vibe of being fun to hang with.  I agree with others that Ian would be a better fit as the hologram, or barring that at least expand their role at the project.

[libgirl2]

2 minutes ago, Rose Quartz said:

In the original show there was some pushback from fans once they learned Sam and Donna were married because he slept with other women in various leaps.  Maybe they're having Ben remember Addison right away to avoid this issue.  Hopefully he won't forget her again. It would be cruel to make us have to watch more of those hazy dream sequences - as someone else said, they were pretty bad.

I'm obviously watching this for the connection to the original, but of all the completely new characters Ian is the standout to me.  Their joke about missing out on Ben's first gender expanding experience reminded me a lot of Al and they just give off a vibe of being fun to hang with.  I agree with others that Ian would be a better fit as the hologram, or barring that at least expand their role at the project.

I hope we don't get those anymore either. 

That was one of my favorite lines of the night and why I think Ian would be a fabulous hologram. They seem to have a good rapport with everyone they interact with. 

[Guest]

12 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I thought this was a good episode. There was less time in the present so we got to know the leap characters more, and I felt a good connection to them. Plus, it had Justin Hartley.

I also liked hearing Magic talk about Sam's leap into him and what he remembered. And now we know he was a catalyst for re-starting the project.

I really liked that part. Plus it, and Ben getting his memory back, really moves the plot forward. It does raise more questions for me about if the waiting room still exists and whose body is each actually in. 

11 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

The only side eye I'm giving the show is that there was no kiss between Ben and Hartley's character.

I can see that but I am really glad they didn’t. The concept of the show makes consent so murky. I can’t see any way to do it without playing it for laughs or being problematic.

[Chaos Theory]

I may be the unpopular opinion on this board but I am glad the show isn’t going with the obvious hilarity of Ben leaping into a woman or the obvious having two dudes kiss just for points.    One of the things I remember about the OG series  was that Sam would spend the entire episode freaking out that he was a woman  like it was the worst thing he could possibly be.    Ben just noted it was weird shrugged and moved on.    I am also not hating the Ben and Addison romance.    The buddy/buddy thing worked in the past but one of the issues with the old series was it was a male show with a male cast.   I am actually liking the idea that Ben did this thing without telling his gf and now she has to lie to him because he put the entire project in jeopardy.   It’s a decent storyline and I do think they have chemistry but it is based on soap opera one partner has amnesia chemistry.    It works for me.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Chaos Theory

[stonehaven]

I am here for all the easter eggs to the original show. Magic's explanation and his experience was cool. I wonder if he knew that Al helped Sam save his entire unit and in doing so gave up his own chance to be free....(If you haven't seen that ep of the original, it's one of the best)...

I do like that Ben was okay with being a woman and I loved that it was a woman bounty hunter. Sam lept into women three times that I recall....First as the secretary, second as Miss Deep South(one of m favorites) and third as the rape survivor....

Overall, I'm liking it more and more each week...;

[rwlevin]

10 minutes ago, stonehaven said:

I do like that Ben was okay with being a woman and I loved that it was a woman bounty hunter. Sam lept into women three times that I recall....First as the secretary, second as Miss Deep South(one of m favorites) and third as the rape survivor

And also as Dr. Ruth. 

Is it just me or is Addison the spitting image of Sandra Bullock? I just can't get past it. 

About the episode, I feel each episode is better than the one before it. I liked the time we spent with Eve's dad and boyfriend. I liked hearing Magic's story. I LOVE Ian. I didn't like Ben's epiphany overlap Eve's future. I like hearing about what happens to the leapees.

[iMonrey]

Quote

 I agree with others that Ian would be a better fit as the hologram, or barring that at least expand their role at the project.

I don't know that Ian would be any better as the hologram. We don't really know much about their personality or relationship with Ben. Sure, Ian seems more interesting than Addison but that's not saying much. Addison is just sort of there, she really doesn't have much charisma or personality which is the main problem here. And having her be Ben's love interest doesn't really add anything to the show, aside from extra angst if you care anything about her, which I do not.

What they really need is something similar to what they had with Sam and Al. Someone who was a close confident/friend of Ben's that can lighten the mood but isn't going to cause extra angst projecting their own personal crap onto him.

[Sarah 103]

7 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

If Ben doesn't forget the romance between him and Addison, can she be pulled as his hologram and replaced by Ian? Please! 

May I add, pretty please with sugar on top? 

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

But Addison still isn't adding anything to the show. The dynamic between Sam and Al is really what's still missing in the formula here. Without an Al character the show lacks the charm and whimsy of the original. I don't know why reboots and remakes always have to go darker and grittier, it's like they totally don't understand what made the original so special.

YES! Addison and Ben are a bit of a soap opera romance, which isn't something I'm into. Give me bickering, bantering back and forth like Al and Sam, and I would be very happy. 

6 hours ago, Rose Quartz said:

I'm obviously watching this for the connection to the original, but of all the completely new characters Ian is the standout to me.  Their joke about missing out on Ben's first gender expanding experience reminded me a lot of Al and they just give off a vibe of being fun to hang with.  I agree with others that Ian would be a better fit as the hologram, or barring that at least expand their role at the project.

Ian had without question or doubt the best line of the episode with the remark you mentioned. Ian would be so much fun as the hologram. Ian would have some rather witty observations and comments which is something the show seriously needs. 

I liked seeing the mission change and Ben realize that he may have been wrong about what he thought about the mission. I hated that we didn't get to see more of Ben struggling to use the old paper/plastic map but we did get to see Ben realize than he and Addison are a couple. 

[secnarf]

58 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I don't know that Ian would be any better as the hologram. We don't really know much about their personality or relationship with Ben. Sure, Ian seems more interesting than Addison but that's not saying much. Addison is just sort of there, she really doesn't have much charisma or personality which is the main problem here. And having her be Ben's love interest doesn't really add anything to the show, aside from extra angst if you care anything about her, which I do not.

What they really need is something similar to what they had with Sam and Al. Someone who was a close confident/friend of Ben's that can lighten the mood but isn't going to cause extra angst projecting their own personal crap onto him.

I wonder if, now that Ben has started to remember her, that dynamic will start to shift more towards the close confident and away from angsty. Him not remembering her limited what the writers could do with the relationship, because from Ben's POV, there was no relationship.

I don't dislike Addison, but the angst will get old fast if they don't move past it.

[KaveDweller]

8 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I have to say, I really enjoyed that part, especially the "nudge". 

If Ben doesn't forget the romance between him and Addison, can she be pulled as his hologram and replaced by Ian? Please! 

What I liked about the nudge aspect was Magic saying he "said yes to the nudge." Like he somehow could have stopped Sam from leaping into him if he said no to the nudge. Not sure if that was the idea though.

[ajsnaves]

Each episode has improved in my opinion. I really liked this one. I would love to see Ian as the hologram too. Maybe they could switch off, go in shifts.  Really, there should always be somebody there with Ben. 
 

it has been years since I’ve seen Magic’s episode, so it was a nice refresher. I like the idea that he had to say yes to the nudge. Gives a bit of consent at least. As to the “waiting room,” maybe they’re in some unused storage closet, and nobody realizes it. One day Ian needs some pens, and they just walk in on a very confused guy from the 50’s. 

[DoctorAtomic]

3 hours ago, stonehaven said:

(If you haven't seen that ep of the original, it's one of the best)...

"Don't worry kid, I was free up here... I was always free."

Wow, I'm pleasantly surprised Magic spilled the beans already. Stellar monologue by Hudson. Ian's reaction shots really sold it. I really like when actors don't get saddled with overwriting and get to actually act.

I probably should have seen "Carla" coming. I didn't think she was telling the truth, but I was still also surprised. And I didn't think she would shoot the guy. 

The show seems to have its legs after these last two. I liked here how Ziggy wasn't really of use because Carla disappeared so they had to figure it out. 

16 minutes ago, ajsnaves said:

As to the “waiting room,” maybe they’re in some unused storage closet, and nobody realizes it. One day Ian needs some pens, and they just walk in on a very confused guy from the 50’s. 

Please let this happen. That would be brilliant. Given Magic has seemingly all of Sam's leap data, I'm not sure how a mention of the waiting room might be missed though. Magic didn't seem to have any recollection of it, so he might not be specifically looking for it. Or they could say Al wasn't the best at filling out mission reports. Which is entirely consistent. 

One thing that annoyed me about the original was that even though Sam did sleep with some women, he was still kind of prudish overall. I don't think the original would have handled the proposal here with the overall nonplussedness or just being a woman, as it was here. 

Addison is getting some quips in. "30 seconds as a woman and you've been harassed, assaulted, and insulted. I liiike this leap!"

I do think, as it was pointed out, that this might be the sweet spot in terms of minutes on the leap v the lab. I think they got a lot in though. You really only need one big lab scene; here, Magic and Ian. 

[Lisa418722]

I did enjoy Ian and Magic's talk.  Magic figuring out what had happened and learning that in the original history he, Tom, and everyone had died.  Then Magic wanting to figure out what happened.  I know a lot of people don't like the lab scenes, but since they are trying to figure out why Ben leaped (when it was supposed to be Addison) and leaped early, I think the lab scenes do help.  

One thing that I realized in this episode I don't like.  Addison seems to be with Ben the entire time.  Al did leave Sam sometimes.  Al didn't even appear immediately like Addison did at the club.  Sam had (on the show) a few minutes to try to figure things out about who he was and what was happening before Al appeared.  

[marketdoctor]

One thing I thought was funny:  Justin Hartley and Sofia Pernas are married in real life.

I loved how they're not stretching the mythology reveal:  Magic knows what happened, and Ben is figuring it out pretty quickly.

Also, they didn't play the gender reversal for (a lot of) laughs, but almost reverse-lampshaded how strange it was.  Going for the "Have you been getting boxing training?"/"Actually, I have..." was really funny too.

[Clanstarling]

On 10/10/2022 at 7:57 PM, Chaos Theory said:

I really like hearing the leap from the other point of view.  What happened when Sam leaped out and the person got their life back

I said yes to the nudge.

Say what you want about the new series the actor who plays Ben had actual chemistry with the dude who played the romantic interest with the woman he leaped into.  When Sam leaped into a woman it was mostly played for laughs.

I liked Magic's story too. It was fun to see Justin Hartley again.

23 hours ago, Dani said:

I can see that but I am really glad they didn’t. The concept of the show makes consent so murky. I can’t see any way to do it without playing it for laughs or being problematic.

Yes, it's a different world than when the original was made, and consent can be a big issue in these storylines. I like that Magic implied there was consent for Sam taking over his body, which is good. Getting physical is another thing, and I hope they avoid it. I wasn't too thrilled with it back in the day, even though I loved the original show. (and hated the ending...but I guess that made this reboot possible).

It was pretty entertaining, but I agree that Addison and Ben don't have much, if any, chemistry and don't make for interesting viewing. And it really stretches credulity (even in a fantasy show) that she could be there immediately and basically all the time.

[Commando Cody]

After seeing this episode, I would rather see Magic as the hologram.  Ernie Hudson has done some comedic work. We would probably get more insight into what goes on with the leap-ee. He would be more of an authority figure who wouldn't have to get second hand information from Addison. We can dump the boring romantic entanglement with Addison. I can't believe the producers made the same mistake again. Sam should not have had any sort of significant other, neither should Ben. Other than that, I don't like any other the other characters. They should get rid of everybody and keep the new leap guy and Ernie Hudson as the main cast. Just bring on guest actors like they did in the original series. 

Otherwise, this episode was pretty good. I really didn't see the woman as a cold-blooded killer coming. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I wonder if, now that Ben has started to remember her, that dynamic will start to shift more towards the close confident and away from angsty. 

I don't see how. Now that Ben remembers Addison there's just a different angst over their inability to be together. Now with a dab of schmoopiness. This isn't the dynamic the show needs between Ben and his holographic advisor.  In theory, the girlfriend angle could work, but the show needs a better girlfriend. Someone who is a fun and interesting person. Addison is not that person.

Edited October 12, 2022 by iMonrey

[Sarah 103]

7 hours ago, Lisa418722 said:

 Addison seems to be with Ben the entire time.  Al did leave Sam sometimes.  Al didn't even appear immediately like Addison did at the club.  Sam had (on the show) a few minutes to try to figure things out about who he was and what was happening before Al appeared.  

My guess is that it's a time issue. The original series had more minutes to tell the story and it was allowed to breathe. This time around, they only have enough time in the past for the leap mission, so almost anything not directly related to the leap is cut, which is a shame. 

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

 In theory, the girlfriend angle could work, but the show needs a better girlfriend. Someone who is a fun and interesting person. Addison is not that person.

This gets to one of my problems with the series. Both the leaper and the hologram are super serious people, and it doesn't really generate too many fun/interesting conversations.

[libgirl2]

1 hour ago, Commando Cody said:

Otherwise, this episode was pretty good. I really didn't see the woman as a cold-blooded killer coming. 

I did not either! I figured she would be the comic relief. 

[Trini]

Justin Hartley! ❤️

Okay, the show is getting incrementally better. There was a better balance of 'case of the week' with Ben, and HQ scenes. 

I didn't like the repeated "if you don't do X now, you won't leap AND YOU"LL BE STUCK HERE FOREVER!". I feel like they do this three times per episode. We know the stakes, and I don't think constantly mentioning it helps. (Actually, can that be a plot? Ben fails a mission... then what?)

I'd really like to know Ben better; I know he's got amnesia, and they're giving small bits along the way, but maybe a flashback episode?

As everyone mentioned, I also really liked getting the perspective of a person that was leapt into; plus another connection to the original series and Sam.

I didn't necessarily need Ben remembering Addison is his fiancee at this point in the season, but it fit the themes of the episode, and Raymond Lee was excellent playing out the reveal. They didn't drag it out too long.

On 10/11/2022 at 12:22 AM, Irlandesa said:

The only side eye I'm giving the show is that there was no kiss between Ben and Hartley's character.

On one hand, I respect the decision to not make make Ben leaping into a woman a big deal, and maybe they didn't want the kiss to be 'A Thing'; but on the other hand, I felt there were a few places in the story where a kiss between Justin Hartley's character and Ben-as-his-girlfriend would have been natural and expected - but it didn't happen, surprisingly.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Trini
gah - dropped words

[KaveDweller]

21 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Please let this happen. That would be brilliant. Given Magic has seemingly all of Sam's leap data, I'm not sure how a mention of the waiting room might be missed though. Magic didn't seem to have any recollection of it, so he might not be specifically looking for it. Or they could say Al wasn't the best at filling out mission reports. Which is entirely consistent. 

It would be hilarious, but they are not in the old Quantum Leap location, so they would have had to build a new waiting room. On the original, the project was based in New Mexico.

Edited October 12, 2022 by KaveDweller

[iMonrey]

Quote

I didn't like the repeated "if you don't do X now, you won't leap AND YOU"LL BE STUCK HERE FOREVER!". I feel like they do this three times per episode. We know the stakes, and I don't think constantly mentioning it helps. (Actually, can that be a plot? Ben fails a mission... then what?)

I don't remember this even being a thing on the original show. The consequences of Sam failing a mission were simply that history would play out the same way as it did before. I don't recall there being any threat to Sam being "stuck" there if he failed at what he was supposed to do. In fact, they never knew 100% what he was supposed to do. Ziggy only ever gave the odds of what Sam's purpose was. 

[possibilities]

I've only seen a few of the original series, but what I recall is that they would expect him to leap as soon as he completed his mission, and every time he thought he had done it, but he didn't leap, they would just try to figure out what else he was there to do, and keep trying til something made it happen.

They did have the warning that he could die during the mission, that if the person he leapt into died, Sam would also die. So that added plenty of pressure.

[DoctorAtomic]

3 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

It would be hilarious, but they are not in the old Quantum Leap location, so they would have had to build a new waiting room. On the original, the project was based in New Mexico.

Maybe the leapee is just hanging out in the closet. They constructed a waiting room. The person would have still been there. 

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I don't remember this even being a thing on the original show. The consequences of Sam failing a mission were simply that history would play out the same way as it did before. I don't recall there being any threat to Sam being "stuck" there if he failed at what he was supposed to do. In fact, they never knew 100% what he was supposed to do. Ziggy only ever gave the odds of what Sam's purpose was. 

Here, they could be assuming that this new 'leap map' code means Ben might get stuck. Technically, if Sam didn't leap, they just figured out Ziggy was wrong and figure something else out. Sam still would be stuck there. They're banking on Ziggy a lot more now for some reason. To be fair, in the second episode, Ben and Addison figured he only had to save the astronaut's life, which he did. They were wondering why he didn't leap, and it was because now everyone died. So Ben was 'stuck' in a sense; he did what they thought he should do and didn't leap. 

[Irlandesa]

7 hours ago, Trini said:

On one hand, I respect the decision to not make make Ben leaping into a woman a big deal, and maybe they didn't want the kiss to be 'A Thing'; but on the other hand, I felt there were a few places in the story where a kiss between Justin Hartley's character and Ben-as-his-girlfriend would have been natural and expected - but it didn't happen, surprisingly.

That's exactly what I was trying to say and you said it better so thank you.  I didn't want a kiss so it'd be a joke.  But there were definitely moments where a I'd expect a boyfriend to lean in and kiss his girlfriend on the mouth.

11 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

This gets to one of my problems with the series. Both the leaper and the hologram are super serious people, and it doesn't really generate too many fun/interesting conversations.

Yep.  In fact, even though Ernie Hudson can do comedy, he too is inhabiting a serious character.  It's why I've been on the "Ian as a hologram" train since maybe the first week.  Ian is a perfect blend of someone who can be serious and someone who the writers enjoy writing quips for.  They'd be different than Al because Al was a professional bachelor/horn dog.  I don't see Ian doing that if they leapt but I do think they'd bring a curiosity and witty observations to the time and place where Ben landed.

[kirkola]

14 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I don't remember this even being a thing on the original show. The consequences of Sam failing a mission were simply that history would play out the same way as it did before. I don't recall there being any threat to Sam being "stuck" there if he failed at what he was supposed to do. In fact, they never knew 100% what he was supposed to do. Ziggy only ever gave the odds of what Sam's purpose was. 

The only time I remember Sam failing at a mission was the Oswald/Kennedy thing where Sam leaped into someone else to finish the job.  And he wasn't stuck....just moved to a person who was in a better position to solve it.  

And I am pretty sure, but it's hazy, that one time Sam didn't want to do the mission so he could stay.

[Clanstarling]

11 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

That's exactly what I was trying to say and you said it better so thank you.  I didn't want a kiss so it'd be a joke.  But there were definitely moments where a I'd expect a boyfriend to lean in and kiss his girlfriend on the mouth.

I thought the tension between the two of them, not to mention the action, didn't lend itself to a kiss at any moment.  But I could have missed something.

[DoctorAtomic]

To be fair, they were being shot at a lot. Some couples aren't touchy feely or PDA either. I'm very much not. Also in this episode, much of it was 'Eva' turning down the proposal while being shot at a lot and chasing down a murderous drug kingpin. I'd concede that at the end when Ben set it up for them to talk about marriage over dinner later could have warranted a kiss.

[Trini]

4 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

To be fair, they were being shot at a lot. Some couples aren't touchy feely or PDA either. I'm very much not. Also in this episode, much of it was 'Eva' turning down the proposal while being shot at a lot and chasing down a murderous drug kingpin. I'd concede that at the end when Ben set it up for them to talk about marriage over dinner later could have warranted a kiss.

Yes, at the end of the case, at the very least.

[peachmangosteen]

I did think the head kiss at the end was sweet.

[KaveDweller]

23 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I don't remember this even being a thing on the original show. The consequences of Sam failing a mission were simply that history would play out the same way as it did before. I don't recall there being any threat to Sam being "stuck" there if he failed at what he was supposed to do. In fact, they never knew 100% what he was supposed to do. Ziggy only ever gave the odds of what Sam's purpose was. 

I think early in the original they implied it, but I recently saw some of the final episodes where they specifically stated that success did not determine if he leaped.

But it is more dramatic to be like, "you'll be stuck as a woman forever!"

[Giuseppe]

I had pretty heavy criticism for this show after the pilot, but I agree that it's gotten a lot better and I'm enjoying watching now. BUT, this may be small potatoes, but I feel like sometimes they're barely trying to get the styling right for the time periods. They said this leap was 1981 (and as evidenced by the shots of Princess Di's wedding on the TVs), and granted I was only 3 years old in 81, but the way they were styled, seemed much more mid-late 80s IMO. I mean they could've at least given Justin Hartley a bowl-cut, lol. Just felt like show decided 'generic 80s' look was good enough, lol.

[Chaos Theory]

On 10/12/2022 at 8:50 PM, iMonrey said:

I don't remember this even being a thing on the original show. The consequences of Sam failing a mission were simply that history would play out the same way as it did before. I don't recall there being any threat to Sam being "stuck" there if he failed at what he was supposed to do. In fact, they never knew 100% what he was supposed to do. Ziggy only ever gave the odds of what Sam's purpose was. 

That’s the problem with using the original too much as a blueprint of how the current version should be.  The original was a lot more whimsical and despite the overall premise the stakes were a lot lower.   Plus the show was just a product of its time which is ironic in itself.    The new one is splitting the difference between being a continuation of the original but also wanting yo be a tad more gritty.  It cuts out what just doesn’t work and what was never really necessary in the waiting room and adds stakes for Ben.    You can hand wave it that the stakes were part of the new code added and that the new time travel program just eliminated the need for a waiting room but neither were really necessary for the plot to begin with.    Plus I like Magic’s explanation that he said yes to the nudge.  There is a certain consent that was missing from the original. 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Chaos Theory

[Clanstarling]

18 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

That’s the problem with using the original too much as a blueprint of how the current version should be.  The original was a lot more whimsical and despite the overall premise the stakes were a lot lower.   Plus the show was just a product of its time which is ironic in itself.    The new one is splitting the difference between being a continuation of the original but also wanting yo be a tad more gritty.  It cuts out what just doesn’t work and what was never really necessary in the waiting room and adds stakes for Ben.    You can hand wave it that the stakes were part of the new code added and that the new time travel program just eliminated the need for a waiting room but neither were really necessary for the plot to begin with.    Plus I like Magic’s explanation that he said yes to the nudge.  There is a certain consent that was missing from the original. 

All very true, and I like the nudge/consent addition. I could still use a touch of whimsy, though. Still, it's improved and I will keep watching.

[possibilities]

The nudge conversation was the best part of this episode, I thought. 

[Rebecca berkowit]

On 10/15/2022 at 3:15 PM, Giuseppe said:

I had pretty heavy criticism for this show after the pilot, but I agree that it's gotten a lot better and I'm enjoying watching now. BUT, this may be small potatoes, but I feel like sometimes they're barely trying to get the styling right for the time periods. They said this leap was 1981 (and as evidenced by the shots of Princess Di's wedding on the TVs), and granted I was only 3 years old in 81, but the way they were styled, seemed much more mid-late 80s IMO. I mean they could've at least given Justin Hartley a bowl-cut, lol. Just felt like show decided 'generic 80s' look was good enough, lol.

This!  I am old enough to remember the 80’s,  and the early part looked very different from the middle/late part.  ‘81 still looked a lot like the 70’s, with a little early punk thrown in.  (When they played “Ball Room Blitz, I remembered it as a 70’s song, in fact, but I guess it wasn’t.  But it show you how close in time they felt).  Today all the 80’s nostalgia always just goes lazily for the Flashdance, neon, and big hair.  Flashdance came out after 1981, nobody wore cut up sweatshirts before that.  Neon was a thing for only a few years, it wasn’t pervasive.  Basically, for the mid-to-late 80’s, the silhouette was just different.  Wide on top (shoulder pads, giant men’s style shirts, big long sweaters,  big hair, lots of sparkly jewelry), narrow on the bottom (leggings, high waisted tight jeans, stirrup pants, tight miniskirts, black pantyhose, spike heels).  Women liked to look powerful and imposing.   Tops were always bloused over a belt or tucked in and bloused over pants.   Everything on top was baggy, not form-fitting like they tend to show in these things because it looks sexy to today’s eye.    People weren’t supposed to be stick-thin.  People wore spandex for working out mostly, not out in public.   And they never can get the hair as big or crunchy enough like it was.  When they do it, it still looks flattering.  In reality,  it was so ugly and overly sprayed and permed, sticking out on the sides, it’s possible it just can’t be duplicated with today’s technology, or maybe people just can’t believe it was that bad.  But it was.    I went to an 80’s party and I dressed like I really did in the 80’s (miniskirt, very big t-shirt belted with the sleeves rolled up, giant fluffy socks, white leather high top sneakers, and a bow in my frizzed out hair).  Nobody else was dressed like that at all.   They were all wearing neon and flashdance.   They couldn’t figure out my costume.  But this is the problem with them going back beyond the lifetimes of the writers!  I bet people who grew up in the 50’s are like “it wasn’t all poodle skirts!”  Now, get off my lawn!

Edited October 17, 2022 by Rebecca berkowit

[Clanstarling]

6 minutes ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

This!  I am old enough to remember the 80’s,  and the early part looked very different from the middle/late part.  ‘81 still looked a lot like the 70’s, with a little early punk thrown in.  (When they played “Ball Room Blitz, I remembered it as a 70’s song, in fact, but I guess it wasn’t.  But it show you how close in time they felt).  Today all the 80’s nostalgia always just goes lazily for the Flashdance, neon, and big hair.  Flashdance came out after 1981, nobody wore cut up sweatshirts before that.  Neon was a thing for only a few years, it wasn’t pervasive.  Basically, for the mid-to-late 80’s, the silhouette was just different.  Wide on top (shoulder pads, giant men’s style shirts, big long sweaters,  big hair, lots of sparkly jewelry), narrow on the bottom (leggings, high waisted tight jeans, stirrup pants, tight miniskirts, black pantyhose, spike heels).  Women liked to look powerful and imposing.   Tops were always bloused over a belt or tucked in and bloused over pants.   Everything on top was baggy, not form-fitting like they tend to show in these things because it looks sexy to today’s eye.    People weren’t supposed to be stick-thin.  People wore spandex for working out mostly, not out in public.   And they never can get the hair as big or crunchy enough like it was.  When they do it, it still looks flattering.  In reality,  it was so ugly and overly sprayed and permed, sticking out on the sides, it’s possible it just can’t be duplicated with today’s technology, or maybe people just can’t believe it was that bad.  But it was.    I went to an 80’s party and I dressed like I really did in the 80’s (miniskirt, very big t-shirt belted with the sleeves rolled up, giant fluffy socks, white leather high top sneakers, and a bow in my frizzed out hair).  Nobody else was dressed like that at all.   They were all wearing neon and flashdance.   They couldn’t figure out my costume.  But this is the problem with them going back beyond the lifetimes of the writers!  I bet people who grew up in the 50’s are like “it wasn’t all poodle skirts!”  Now, get off my lawn!

My perm was always soft, because I hate crunchy (and hated hair spray and products), and I loved my perm because I had thin hair and it looked like I had more than I did. But there were some that were pretty heinous. I also cut out my shoulder pads because my shoulders were wide enough, and I was/am short so it looked really weird on me. But I was never an "in style" sort of person, so I didn't dress in the 80's styles - so there aren't any embarrassing pictures of me from back then. Thank goodness.

[Rebecca berkowit]

9 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

My perm was always soft, because I hate crunchy (and hated hair spray and products), and I loved my perm because I had thin hair and it looked like I had more than I did. But there were some that were pretty heinous. I also cut out my shoulder pads because my shoulders were wide enough, and I was/am short so it looked really weird on me. But I was never an "in style" sort of person, so I didn't dress in the 80's styles - so there aren't any embarrassing pictures of me from back then. Thank goodness.

Ha!  You’re lucky.  Mom mom never let me do the perm and spray thing, because I guess she could see how awful it looked.  But all the popular girls had it.    I always had straight hair and hated it.  I would try to poof it out.  I did wear the awful clothes.  For the five minutes that neon was in (it really wasn’t the whole decade), I even had neon SHOES.   I just remember everything was big, and I am a small person, so I was always drowning in it.  It did me no favors on top.  I was so relieved when the 90’s came in with lower waists and tighter tops.  And I suppose this is getting off topic and people will be upset. 

[Sarah 103]

27 minutes ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

But this is the problem with them going back beyond the lifetimes of the writers!  I bet people who grew up in the 50’s are like “it wasn’t all poodle skirts!”  Now, get off my lawn!

I think the problem is them not doing the research or not caring to make it accurate. It's the 1980s, not the 1780s. There are tons of photographs, footage, and images of what real/everyday people were wearing, as well as what fashionable/trendy/stylish people were wearing.

I don't think it's about the age of the people involved. Matthew Weiner barely remembers the 1960s. He has at best vauge memories of it, but he made sure Mad Men was as accurate as possible. They still made small mistakes every now and then, but overall, there was a serious attention to getting the details right. 

In terms of 1980s fashion, I remember hearing somewhere that 1980s fashion can be divided into two or three different eras. You have the early part of the decade, which has more common in the 1970s, and the later part of the 1980s, which is neon, big shoulders, and what most people think of as 1980s. I think there may be a third style era somewhere in between. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Sarah 103