S03.E06 Herogasm

[MAK]

Regarding the fight scene, notice how totally deranged and psychotic Karl Urban and Antony Starr looked? It made Jack Nicholson in the Shining seem a little tame.

[ahrtee]

I did enjoy this ep, and all the new developments it brought.  There were a few things that made me go "hmmmm" (or maybe, "huh?")  In no particular order:

1.  Hughie can apparently (now) transport other people, but not their clothing.  I'm going to assume it's something about "living things" that he can take with him, even though that was never mentioned.  Or did he practice (during his brief experiences with temp V)?  And I guess it didn't occur to him to transport Kimiko when she was hurt.  

2. Why is Starlight so vehemently anti-Soldier Boy?  Last week she was screaming at Hughie that he was "working with a murderer," but, considering who she's been working with for all this time, what does that mean?  Pretty much everyone she knows (including Hughie) has "murdered" someone, or many people.  At least SB doesn't seem to be killing people (other than his team) deliberately, but mostly accidentally/unknowingly; so why is working with him so much worse?  

3. Hughie seems to be suffering from the same not-as-toxic (but still annoying) masculinity as the others.  I understand that he wants to "protect" the person he loves, but the fact that he can't accept that she's stronger than him and not only doesn't need him for that, but is able to protect him instead, is pretty annoying (and condescending, IMO).   Hughie seems to be stuck in the mode that the guy is the "protector" and the woman the one who needs to be taken care of, and refuses to acknowledge that this case is different.  While I may understand where he's coming from, I don't  blame Starlight for being pissed off that he's not letting her be herself.  

4. What did Hughie expect when he confronted A Train?  That once he got the apology he wanted, he'd feel better?  It would be over?  So, yes, A Train apologized, and sincerely seemed to mean it.  And then Hughie punched him, so obviously no real healing there.  Ditto MM and SB.  Does he want an apology or just revenge?  I'm assuming, from his story, that a large part of MM's hatred is built on his own feelings of guilt, because if he hadn't gotten his grandfather to go to the window, he wouldn't have been killed.  Revenge seems to be the driving force for pretty much everyone on the show, but we can see how damaging/pointless it is.  MM is better than that, and I hope he can realize it.    

5. Do you think giving A Train's brother the temp V would heal his spine?  

6. Much as I'd love to see more of Jensen Ackles, I can't see SB making it past this season (except maybe in a cliffhanger ending).*  You can't really have two invincible superheroes in the same show without their battles getting repetitive, and Homelander is still the focus of the story.  The show wouldn't be the same without him.  

Sorry if I missed or misinterpreted some things.  I'm still learning my way around here.  

*ETA: Plus the timing.  I can't see him able to take a few months for filming in Canada, while he's a regular on one series (in NM) and EP on another (in New Orleans); unless one of his superpowers is the ability to be in several places at the same time.

Edited June 25, 2022 by ahrtee

[MAK]

Regarding Hughie's powers, think that blood coming from his ear is like some kind of internal bleeding that's a side effect of the temp V, or just some gunk he forgot to clean out? Wonder if it's an important point?

[Castiels Cat]

4 hours ago, ahrtee said:

I did enjoy this ep, and all the new developments it brought.  There were a few things that made me go "hmmmm" (or maybe, "huh?")  In no particular order:

1.  Hughie can apparently (now) transport other people, but not their clothing.  I'm going to assume it's something about "living things" that he can take with him, even though that was never mentioned.  Or did he practice (during his brief experiences with temp V)?  And I guess it didn't occur to him to transport Kimiko when she was hurt.  

2. Why is Starlight so vehemently anti-Soldier Boy?  Last week she was screaming at Hughie that he was "working with a murderer," but, considering who she's been working with for all this time, what does that mean?  Pretty much everyone she knows (including Hughie) has "murdered" someone, or many people.  At least SB doesn't seem to be killing people (other than his team) deliberately, but mostly accidentally/unknowingly; so why is working with him so much worse?  

3. Hughie seems to be suffering from the same not-as-toxic (but still annoying) masculinity as the others.  I understand that he wants to "protect" the person he loves, but the fact that he can't accept that she's stronger than him and not only doesn't need him for that, but is able to protect him instead, is pretty annoying (and condescending, IMO).   Hughie seems to be stuck in the mode that the guy is the "protector" and the woman the one who needs to be taken care of, and refuses to acknowledge that this case is different.  While I may understand where he's coming from, I don't  blame Starlight for being pissed off that he's not letting her be herself.  

4. What did Hughie expect when he confronted A Train?  That once he got the apology he wanted, he'd feel better?  It would be over?  So, yes, A Train apologized, and sincerely seemed to mean it.  And then Hughie punched him, so obviously no real healing there.  Ditto MM and SB.  Does he want an apology or just revenge?  I'm assuming, from his story, that a large part of MM's hatred is built on his own feelings of guilt, because if he hadn't gotten his grandfather to go to the window, he wouldn't have been killed.  Revenge seems to be the driving force for pretty much everyone on the show, but we can see how damaging/pointless it is.  MM is better than that, and I hope he can realize it.    

5. Do you think giving A Train's brother the temp V would heal his spine?  

6. Much as I'd love to see more of Jensen Ackles, I can't see SB making it past this season (except maybe in a cliffhanger ending).*  You can't really have two invincible superheroes in the same show without their battles getting repetitive, and Homelander is still the focus of the story.  The show wouldn't be the same without him.  

Sorry if I missed or misinterpreted some things.  I'm still learning my way around here.  

*ETA: Plus the timing.  I can't see him able to take a few months for filming in Canada, while he's a regular on one series (in NM) and EP on another (in New Orleans); unless one of his superpowers is the ability to be in several places at the same time.

Taking reply to speculation thread

[roamyn]

5 hours ago, ahrtee said:

ETA: Plus the timing.  I can't see him able to take a few months for filming in Canada, while he's a regular on one series (in NM) and EP on another (in New Orleans); unless one of his superpowers is the ability to be in several places at the same time.

It depends on how much of S4 is written.  If they are just getting into the writer’s room, more than likely filming won’t be until next year, which means Jensen may be done with Big Sky by then.  Right now, it’s only a one year gig.

Also, he is co-EP w/his wife on The Winchester’s.  Daneel has been in the business long enough to know what to handle.  They aren’t expected to be on site, while filming goes on.  Both Jared & Jensen have mentioned this in regards to the spinoffs.  All Jensen has to do is record voice overs, which he could do from anywhere.

The thing that gives me hope is that he told Michael Rosenbaum that he hopes to be invited back for a S4.   If Homelander is powered down, they’ll need an alpha supe.  Plus Jensen is getting rave reviews for his portrayal of SB.  And fans are responding positively to his character.  I can’t imagine TPTB would want to upset the apple cart too much, esp if A-Train is at an end.

ETA:  or if HL is not de-powered, I could see a redemption arc for SB

Edited June 25, 2022 by roamyn

[DeeDee79]

7 hours ago, Bergamot said:

Hughie knew that Soldier Boy was going to come walking into the house in 3 minutes, and there was no telling what would happen after that, or how the people at the party might be affected. Which was why he went in first to begin with.  It was not a good time to allow himself to be sidetracked.

More than that, Hughie knew that Soldier Boy was not in complete control of his powers, because Soldier Boy had admitted it to him.  He knew that Soldier Boy had recently experienced some kind of blackout that resulted in the catastrophic destruction of an entire building and many deaths. Yet he assured Annie that she didn’t need to be concerned, because he had “made Soldier Boy promise not to do anything” that would endanger civilians.

But if preventing collateral damage had actually been his top priority, I think Hughie could have made different choices. For instance, I was thinking that since obviously Hughie was aware that he could teleport other people, he should have gone in, grabbed hold of the Twins, and teleported them out to where Soldier Boy was waiting.
 

I don’t particularly agree that Hughie being sidetracked translates to him not caring about what happens to bystanders. But I already gave my reasons why so I’ll leave it at that.

[Sakura12]

They really hyped the Herogasm part of this episode and it turned out to not be much of anything. 

While Homelander lost the fight, it took 3 super powered people to bring him down so I'd say he's the most powerful. Do they even know that SB's powers can take away supes powers? I would assume even SB doesn't know that. Otherwise he would've done that first. That's what happens when you are so focused on revenge you stop talking to your team. Hughie is becoming like Buther with a single minded focus that you don't care about anyone else. Which makes them no better than the Supes they are going after. The supes not caring about the collateral damage is  why they were going after them in the first place.

With Hughie I think it's more he knew he didn't have a lot of time to get the bystanders out and he let his need to confront A-Train become more important at that time. Then when he saw MM and Annie actually trying to help the injured, he just walked away with Butcher and SB. He didn't care to help anyone. If we compare Hughie to MM. MM's need for revenge with SB has been there since he was a kid, but when Annie said people need help he pushed it down to help others. 

Hughie keeps saying he's doing this foe Annie but he's really doing this for him. He's taking an untested drug that makes him violently ill and now he has blood or goop coming out if his ears and he still keeps taking it so he can feel powerful. Doing this for Annie is making him lose Annie. And yes on this show he's far from the worst but it's also not making him look good. 

[Morrigan2575]

20 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

While Homelander lost the fight, it took 3 super powered people to bring him down so I'd say he's the most powerful.

I watched the fight again on YouTube and Holy Crap! Homelander is a power house. When Homelander said he was the upgrade he wasn't kidding. 😲

Soldier Boy still has his Hidden Nuke Power but, I wonder if that can even kill Homelander?  

Round 2 is going to be off the hook!

[Bergamot]

6 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Hughie seems to be suffering from the same not-as-toxic (but still annoying) masculinity as the others.  I understand that he wants to "protect" the person he loves, but the fact that he can't accept that she's stronger than him and not only doesn't need him for that, but is able to protect him instead, is pretty annoying (and condescending, IMO).

I agree that it is annoying, and I think that Hughie is in denial if he insists that this is solely about his need to protect Annie. But the thing is, when Soldier Boy is baffled by the TV commercial showing a man wearing a snugli baby carrier and carrying a bag of diapers, and disparages his masculinity, Hughie does not give any indication that he sympathizes with the way Soldier Boy sees the world, or that he is thinking “Right on! Where are all the REAL men?” And he has never appeared to have any problem whatsoever with Kimiko being stronger than him; it never has seemed to bother him that even though she is a woman, she has repeatedly saved him from danger and not the other way around. Also, before he found out the truth about her, Hughie seemed to love working with Victoria as his boss, and she was definitely a strong, take-charge woman.

So Hughie’s problem seems to be specifically with the idea that the one woman that he is in a relationship with is stronger than him, and the fact that he finds it intolerable that he might look “weak” if she is the one protecting him, rather than the other way around. This fear seems to be very deeply rooted in Hughie.  If I were to guess, and not to be too Freudian about it, I would say that it has something to do with the relationship between his parents. Which from the little we know, appears to have been the story of a weak father, and a mother who took the initiative to leave the family and strike out on her own.

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Bergamot

[MAK]

2 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

So Hughie’s problem seems to be specifically with the idea that the one woman that he is in a relationship with is stronger than him, and the fact that he finds it intolerable that he might look “weak” if she is the one protecting him, rather than the other way around. This fear seems to be very deeply rooted in Hughie.  If I were to guess, and not to be too Freudian about it, I would say that it has something to do with the relationship between his parents. Which from the little we know, appears to have been the story of a weak father, and a mother who took the initiative to leave the family and strike out on her own.

That's  a really interesting point about his parents.

Also, very unfortunately, there are some men who are fine with women's achievements and strengths surpassing their own, as long as those women are not in their personal sphere. Kimiko's strength has nothing to do with Hughie, so it doesn't bother him. It is definitely seeming weak (in the perception of others) in their personal relationships that makes them behave misogynistically (not sure that's a word). And the whole Dad's taking care of kids, etc., is then framed as stepping up to "help" so again, they are "strong."

[supposebly]

21 minutes ago, MAK said:

Also, very unfortunately, there are some men who are fine with women's achievements and strengths surpassing their own, as long as those women are not in their personal sphere.

Very true. So often there are problems in relationships where the woman makes more money. You can be a feminist for many aspects of life but not others. 

Anyway, I think it also had a bit to do with the fact that Hughey probably feels guilty and worried about Annie staying with Vought. She did want to get out after Homelander told her that he doesn't care about the video of the plane crash anymore and made her his "public girlfriend". And he persuaded her not to. But, the rush of being strong and capable is most likely also a factor.

4 hours ago, MAK said:

think that blood coming from his ear is like some kind of internal bleeding that's a side effect of the temp V, or just some gunk he forgot to clean out? Wonder if it's an important point?

Hard to say with this show.

7 hours ago, ahrtee said:

So, yes, A Train apologized, and sincerely seemed to mean it.  And then Hughie punched him, so obviously no real healing there.

I'm not sure that's the case. It did seem to land but that doesn't mean all the rage about it all just goes away in an instant. So he punched him. Isn't that what men do on TV after they accept an apology?

7 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Why is Starlight so vehemently anti-Soldier Boy?  Last week she was screaming at Hughie that he was "working with a murderer," but, considering who she's been working with for all this time, what does that mean?

Well, they don't know if they won't just replace one super who thinks the world owes him with another. It's about long-term thinking, I'd say.

And I don't understand the second part. Who is she working with?

[catrox14]

Re: "Herogasm" being possibly over hyped:

I'm okay with it not being an entire episode of an orgy.  I think ultimately, the "Herogasm" of it all was the fight with SB, Homelander, Butcher and Hughie.

[Bergamot]

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Re: "Herogasm" being possibly over hyped:

I'm okay with it not being an entire episode of an orgy.  I think ultimately, the "Herogasm" of it all was the fight with SB, Homelander, Butcher and Hughie.

Yes, that sounds right!

Also, I think in regard to it being over-hyped, I think maybe people took all the dire warnings ahead of time too seriously -- I think those who make the show were just teasing us. I don't think that they actually thought that people would be dropping down to the floor in a dead faint from seeing it and that they needed to prepare us. They were just having fun with it!

[Affogato]

I really liked The Deep taking the octopus out of the house, and this explains the unpleasantness with Timothy.  This unnamed cephalopod is the new Timothy, and his wife is jealous and wants to control Deep's sex life. I think his wife, as a representative of the church, is a powerful player in the larger story. We just haven't seen her agenda.

I liked Starlight's speech at the end, when she quits. She is in many ways being unfair to Hughie, who is just being a guy like all the other guys, but I can see the disappointment and frustration.

I can't see how A-Train could have survived. The racing heartbeats stopped and he relaxed into death. He didn't seem to be one of the long lived Supes. The dragging of Blue Hawk was brutal and prolonged. I also saw it as the same impulse that lead to Hughie slugging A-Train a little earlier. Even if you get a sincere apology, it doesn't mean you are over it, and A-Train did not get a sincere apology and the wound was more recent. Last Season I didn't think A-Train was a character they could get rid of easily, but they really have tied up a lot of his loose ends.

I do think it is possible that V would heal the brother and that perhaps he would be able to replace A-Train, because of their similar genetic background, but I don't know if they will go there. It seems like a possible story line.

Soldier Boy, with his high radioactivity, is hopefully not having any new children.

I think after this episode the boys and SB can maybe put together something about the ptsd and perhaps the pavlovian training (Russian Music, power blast). I hope that he blasts homelander . We could get Homelander using V the second time, maybe joining a monastery in tibet...Meanwhile SB still has the confrontation with Black Noir, and a lot of stuff to work through on screen.

I think Maeve is still alive, but maybe not having a lot of fun. Sexual abuse?

[Bergamot]

7 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Why is Starlight so vehemently anti-Soldier Boy?  Last week she was screaming at Hughie that he was "working with a murderer," but, considering who she's been working with for all this time, what does that mean? 

I was wondering about this too. I wish that another character on the show would ask her this, because even if she does not open up about the reason, or maybe doesn’t even know herself what the reason is, it would be revealing to hear her answer.

At first I was thinking that maybe it has something to do with M.M., and how Soldier Boy’s actions destroyed his life. Annie cares about M.M. and sympathizes with his pain, and I can see this causing her to judge Soldier Boy. Or maybe it goes deeper than that.

Like Kimiko, I think that Annie suffers from the fear that having been involuntarily dosed with Compound-V might make her into a monster. She was devastated to find out that her mother allowed her to be injected with the drug, and that her powers were not the God-given gift that she believed them to be. And from what she has experienced since joining The Seven, and her interactions with Supes, I would not be surprised if deep inside she sees Compound-V as something that only creates monsters, and maybe that’s what scares her about Soldier Boy. Since he was the original version of Homelander, maybe she fears he must be even worse.

Aside from Soldier Boy, this has two implications for her relationship with Hughie. First, it helps explain why she is so upset that Hughie has voluntarily chosen to use the drug. She tells M.M. that “Hughie is not himself right now”, and you know that she must be afraid of who he might end up being because of Compound-V.

Second, Annie has chosen to handle the fact that she has these powers, even if they are not “God-given”, by being determined to use them to protect and save people. As she says when she first joins The Seven, it is the most important thing in the world to her. It is the only thing she has ever wanted to do. So of course when Hughie tries to prevent her from doing this, under the guise of “protecting” her, it is like he is attacking the very foundation of who she is. She can not and will not allow it.

Poor Hughie and Annie! On the one side, you have Hughie finding the idea of Annie being stronger than him and making him feel weak to be completely intolerable. And on the other side, you have Annie finding the idea of being asked not to use her powers to save people to be equally intolerable. They love each other, but right now it is hard to see how they can work this out. I don’t know, maybe some heavy-duty therapy would help, but of course that will never happen!
 

[roamyn]

At this point, I’m fed up w/both Hughie & Starlight.  I hope they break up and barely grace my screen for the last two eps.  They both whine & complain abt circumstances and each other.  Hughie doesn’t tell Starlight everything (esp abt SB not realizing a couple of his blasts until they were done); Starlight only cares abt killing SB, she seems to have put the killing HL agenda on the back burner.  They don’t listen to each other.

The only couple who deserves a happy ending are Frenchie/Kimiko.

[arachne]

Interesting parallels in dialogue toward the end: Annie tells Hughie that it isn't the Temp-V that makes him unpleasant, it's something naturally within him. (Okay, I'm paraphrasing.) And Kimiko tells Frenchie she's really a "monster" with or without the V's effects, which Frenchie refuses to accept. 

[Affogato]

I winder if Hughie’s bleeding and Annie’s nosebleed are the result of SB’s radioactivity. 

[DeeDee79]

4 minutes ago, Affogato said:

I winder if Hughie’s bleeding and Annie’s nosebleed are the result of SB’s radioactivity. 

I think that Annie’s nosebleed was a warning from Victoria Neumann since others have gotten nosebleed’s right before their heads exploded. It seems like she was going to pop her head and then decided not to.

Edited June 25, 2022 by DeeDee79

[Myrelle]

3 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I watched the fight again on YouTube and Holy Crap! Homelander is a power house. When Homelander said he was the upgrade he wasn't kidding. 😲

Soldier Boy still has his Hidden Nuke Power but, I wonder if that can even kill Homelander?  

Round 2 is going to be off the hook!

Homelander has laser vision-which I'm not sure Soldier Boy had ever seen in a supe before this fight and from how he reacted to the Butcher/Homelander "stare off" in that fight-but he quickly recovered enough from that surprise to save Butcher from him(and that's why supes shouldn't wear capes. 😉 Loved that. So much.) So Soldier Boy is a trained fighter who knows how to think quickly on his feet and adapt in a fight-human qualities, but with a definite power of their own, that Homelander likely does not have being that he sees his humanity as his weakness and something that needs to be snuffed out entirely for him to reach the perfection like marble that he's striving for.

And Homelander can also fly, something else I'm wondering if Soldier Boy has ever encountered in a supe before.

So they both learned some things about the other's "powers" and strengths(because there's more than one kind of strength besides the physical)from this first encounter.

The biggest difference I can see right now in these two powerful supes is that Soldier Boy is far more humanized by his experiences than Homelander has ever been by his.

I wonder if Kripke and co. will allow this to be shown as a greater strength though.

I guess we'll see if they will allow Soldier Boy his full radioactive power(including the powering supes down part) in the next fight between these two powerhouse supes.

And will Butcher learn of and use the Russian music prompt to help nuclearize(?) Soldier Boy to try and kill Homelander next time.

Butcher's answer to Homelander's charge of cheating(Really, Homelander? Seriously?...) as regards their "deal" was "Scorched Earth" so we know for sure where Butcher's head is still at, and it has little to do with the temp V, AFAIC.

And again, I have to wonder if Kripke and co. will allow this to be shown as the human weakness that it should be shown as this season?

Only two more episodes left.

It just doesn't seem like there will be enough time to me.

14 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

The big final fight looked good, yet the collateral damage didn't match up with how powerful Homelander and presumably Soldier Boy have been built up to be. 

I think Homelander's powers and strength were on full display in the fight, but not Soldier Boy's.

That's why I would like a re-match before he's gone-which I am going to hate if it happens. 

I've grown as attached to him as I have all of the others at this point-and this even though I know what I know about guest casting on tv shows. 😑

[gonzosgirrl]

19 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

And Homelander can also fly, something else I'm wondering if Soldier Boy has ever encountered in a supe before.

There was that wasp or bee or whatever he was in Nicaragua - one of the first killed in the Russian 'attack'.

[Aithne]

1 hour ago, arachne said:

Interesting parallels in dialogue toward the end: Annie tells Hughie that it isn't the Temp-V that makes him unpleasant, it's something naturally within him. (Okay, I'm paraphrasing.) And Kimiko tells Frenchie she's really a "monster" with or without the V's effects, which Frenchie refuses to accept. 

Ooh, that is an interesting parallel. I think Annie is correct about Hughie. Kimiko's sort of right in that she's no different on or off of it, but I don't think Frenchie would say that she had been a monster on V either (with the exception of her period as a hitman). She seems to be defining that by feeling rage or committing violence, but here, what should a non-monster have done? She was badly injured, kidnapped from her hospital room, had to watch someone she loved be psychologically dismantled in front of her, and then someone literally attempted to kill her. I'd want to kill them all too. 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Aithne

[Castiels Cat]

59 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Homelander has laser vision-which I'm not sure Soldier Boy had ever seen in a supe before this fight and from how he reacted to the Butcher/Homelander "stare off" in that fight-but he quickly recovered enough from that surprise to save Butcher from him(and that's why supes shouldn't wear capes. 😉 Loved that. So much.) So Soldier Boy is a trained fighter who knows how to think quickly on his feet and adapt in a fight-human qualities, but with a definite power of their own, that Homelander likely does not have being that he sees his humanity as his weakness and something that needs to be snuffed out entirely for him to reach the perfection like marble that he's striving for.

And Homelander can also fly, something else I'm wondering if Soldier Boy has ever encountered in a supe before.

So they both learned some things about the other's "powers" and strengths(because there's more than one kind of strength besides the physical)from this first encounter.

The biggest difference I can see right now in these two powerful supes is that Soldier Boy is far more humanized by his experiences than Homelander has ever been by his.

I wonder if Kripke and co. will allow this to be shown as a greater strength though.

I guess we'll see if they will allow Soldier Boy his full radioactive power(including the powering supes down part) in the next fight between these two powerhouse supes.

And will Butcher learn of and use the Russian music prompt to help nuclearize(?) Soldier Boy to try and kill Homelander next time.

Butcher's answer to Homelander's charge of cheating(Really, Homelander? Seriously?...) as regards their "deal" was "Scorched Earth" so we know for sure where Butcher's head is still at, and it has little to do with the temp V, AFAIC.

And again, I have to wonder if Kripke and co. will allow this to be shown as the human weakness that it should be shown as this season?

Only two more episodes left.

It just doesn't seem like there will be enough time to me.

I think Homelander's powers and strength were on full display in the fight, but not Soldier Boy's.

That's why I would like a re-match before he's gone-which I am going to hate if it happens. 

I've grown as attached to him as I have all of the others at this point-and this even though I know what I know about guest casting on tv shows. 😑

SB was exhausted from his big boom. I think Homelander has bitten off more than he can handle. He will call in Victoria.

[MrWhyt]

19 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I haven't read the comics. Was it known that she was a Nazi back then?

She's not in the comics

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

She's not in the comics

I totally forgot about that. So "her" backstory is whatever Kripke says it is, including any history with Soldier Boy. 

[PurpleTentacle]

Thinking about it. I think Victoria's argument to Starlight could have been a lot stronger. I don't know if there was any way of getting the super unshakeable in her morals Starlight to her side, but I think she could have convinced me and most of the audience if instead of mentioning the deep fake of her blowing Bin Laden (last I checked deepfaking didn't carry the death penalty) she'd said something like: "Oh boohoo, I exploded the heads of a bunch of old Multimillionairs who don't give a fuck about their constituent, despite having sworn an oath to serve them. Do you know how many of them have blocked health care reform multiple times? All of them. That's millions of people dead who didn't have to be. I made the world a better place by taking them out!"

[AntFTW]

17 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Soldier Boy still has his Hidden Nuke Power but, I wonder if that can even kill Homelander?  

I thought the goal of blasting him with SB’s nuke power was not to kill him but take away his powers because isn’t Homelander indestructible? At least until he loses his powers?

I always thought the plan was to take away his powers to make him vulnerable enough to kill.

I imagine that Butcher remained with SB, and told Hughie to leave, because he thought he would live as he now has Homelander’s powers (except flight it seems). If Homelander can be killed with the nuke power, Butcher staying with SB until he blasts Homelander means that Butcher can also be killed and I don’t think Butcher would have risked his own life if he thought he would die in the process.

Edited June 26, 2022 by AntFTW

[Castiels Cat]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I totally forgot about that. So "her" backstory is whatever Kripke says it is, including any history with Soldier Boy. 

Stormfront is a man in the comics.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Castiels Cat said:

Stormfront is a man in the comics.

Yes, that's why her is in quotes,  lol.

[Castiels Cat]

20 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Yes, that's why her is in quotes,  lol.

Lol. I am soooooo tired.

This episode... I watched twice. 

Only 2 more and not nearly enough meat.

[Castiels Cat]

11 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Re: "Herogasm" being possibly over hyped:

I'm okay with it not being an entire episode of an orgy.  I think ultimately, the "Herogasm" of it all was the fight with SB, Homelander, Butcher and Hughie.

The Herogasm was what happened on MM frankly by definition...

But yes the fight was collectively fangasm.

The Deep managed to save Timothy 2. He will have to kill his wife to keep him off the dinner menu.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Castiels Cat

[Castiels Cat]

8 hours ago, Myrelle said:

Homelander has laser vision-which I'm not sure Soldier Boy had ever seen in a supe before this fight and from how he reacted to the Butcher/Homelander "stare off" in that fight-but he quickly recovered enough from that surprise to save Butcher from him(and that's why supes shouldn't wear capes. 😉 Loved that. So much.) So Soldier Boy is a trained fighter who knows how to think quickly on his feet and adapt in a fight-human qualities, but with a definite power of their own, that Homelander likely does not have being that he sees his humanity as his weakness and something that needs to be snuffed out entirely for him to reach the perfection like marble that he's striving for.

And Homelander can also fly, something else I'm wondering if Soldier Boy has ever encountered in a supe before.

So they both learned some things about the other's "powers" and strengths(because there's more than one kind of strength besides the physical)from this first encounter.

The biggest difference I can see right now in these two powerful supes is that Soldier Boy is far more humanized by his experiences than Homelander has ever been by his.

I wonder if Kripke and co. will allow this to be shown as a greater strength though.

I guess we'll see if they will allow Soldier Boy his full radioactive power(including the powering supes down part) in the next fight between these two powerhouse supes.

And will Butcher learn of and use the Russian music prompt to help nuclearize(?) Soldier Boy to try and kill Homelander next time.

Butcher's answer to Homelander's charge of cheating(Really, Homelander? Seriously?...) as regards their "deal" was "Scorched Earth" so we know for sure where Butcher's head is still at, and it has little to do with the temp V, AFAIC.

And again, I have to wonder if Kripke and co. will allow this to be shown as the human weakness that it should be shown as this season?

Only two more episodes left.

It just doesn't seem like there will be enough time to me.

I think Homelander's powers and strength were on full display in the fight, but not Soldier Boy's.

That's why I would like a re-match before he's gone-which I am going to hate if it happens. 

I've grown as attached to him as I have all of the others at this point-and this even though I know what I know about guest casting on tv shows. 😑

I like him so much better than the others and not just because he's Dean bamf Winchester. 

It's like when GI Joe shows up and he is so much better than Ken is. He is bigger and more muscular. His joints are more bendy. He is more of a guy. You know it and Barbie knows it. The Ken's know it too and they hate it when GI Joe comes out of the sand box to play. SB is just cooler than current iteration Vought plastic supes with their make-up and silly unitards.

If it weren't for the some modern tech he would not need the Boys. 

Homelander, Deep... the are useless.

BN... what has he been up to... he is SB adjacent in his skill set.

[Aeryn13]

8 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

I like him so much better than the others and not just because he's Dean bamf Winchester. 

It's like when GI Joe shows up and he is so much better than Ken is. He is bigger and more muscular. His joints are more bendy. He is more of a guy. You know it and Barbie knows it. The Ken's know it too and they hate it when GI Joe comes out of the sand box to play. SB is just cooler than current iteration Vought plastic supes with their make-up and silly unitards.

If it weren't for the some modern tech he would not need the Boys. 

Homelander, Deep... the are useless.

BN... what has he been up to... he is SB adjacent in his skill set.

Homelander is clearly the powerhouse of the show with his character and Butcher on each ends anchoring it.

I love Jensen and I think he gets a really cool role this Season as SB - thouroughly enjoy his portrayal - but he is not the main star. And I never expected him to be coming into the show. That would be unfair and disrespectful to the great work of a cast and crew that was there from the start and build the show. 

SB is clearly supposed to show that previous generations had their problems, too. He wasn't exactly like HL for several reasons but Vought was evil back and is now. And they are exploiting everyone, Supes and humans. To me they are the true antagonist  

Really enjoy the team-up with Butcher and Hughie and SB. The synchronized wall punch was aces.

Im conclusion: Edna Mode was right.

[Castiels Cat]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

Homelander is clearly the powerhouse of the show with his character and Butcher on each ends anchoring it.

I love Jensen and I think he gets a really cool role this Season as SB - thouroughly enjoy his portrayal - but he is not the main star. And I never expected him to be coming into the show. That would be unfair and disrespectful to the great work of a cast and crew that was there from the start and build the show. 

SB is clearly supposed to show that previous generations had their problems, too. He wasn't exactly like HL for several reasons but Vought was evil back and is now. And they are exploiting everyone, Supes and humans. To me they are the true antagonist  

Really enjoy the team-up with Butcher and Hughie and SB. The synchronized wall punch was aces.

Im conclusion: Edna Mode was right.

But they really marketed they heck out of them now  now... that's the part of the storyline too with the Legend and SB and all the marketing, numbers and branding nonsense.

The 7 are manufactured to fit what Vought says.

SB was... like the legend he was a legend and that's why they took him out. SB was the real deal. He can actually do things. Yes he is flawed but he can actually do things. My guess is that he could not be controlled.

That's what it's looking like to me. It's interesting seeing someone really normal and real besides Starlight who is so self righteous. 

Of course the others are the heroes. They do look silly in their outfits 

The acting is superb.

It is out of this world this season.

I hope his head doesn't pop.

[Affogato]

18 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

There was that wasp or bee or whatever he was in Nicaragua - one of the first killed in the Russian 'attack'.

Swatto!

[Affogato]

10 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

It's like when GI Joe shows up and he is so much better than Ken is. He is bigger and more muscular. His joints are more bendy. He is more of a guy. You know it and Barbie knows it. The Ken's know it too and they hate it when GI Joe comes out of the sand box to play.

Ummm…….? 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Affogato

[DeeDee79]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

Ummm…….? 

Ditto.

[iMonrey]

I'm confused how and when Soldier Boy de-powers other supes. He was just charging up when TNT tried to zap him and they fizzled. So how did Homelander still have his powers while SB was sitting on top of him and charging up?

Also, while the fight scene was great, I was really disappointed Homeland managed to get away. I kind of want this resolved. I know the show has 2 (?) more episodes, and they probably don't want to get rid of Homelander altogether but this whole thing is starting to drag. 

I got a kick out the disclaimer at the beginning of this episode.

[DeeDee79]

1 minute ago, iMonrey said:

I'm confused how and when Soldier Boy de-powers other supes. He was just charging up when TNT tried to zap him and they fizzled. So how did Homelander still have his powers while SB was sitting on top of him and charging up?

With TNT the brother mentioned that they hadn't used their powers in years when the sister suggested it. Maybe lack of use made their powers fizzle out naturally?

[Morrigan2575]

6 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

The 7 are manufactured to fit what Vought says.

SB was... like the legend he was a legend and that's why they took him out. SB was the real deal. He can actually do things. Yes he is flawed but he can actually do things. My guess is that he could not be controlled.

I would really love some more backstory here.  I can see why Vought wanted SB taken out. He was a soldier that became a "talent" but probably always had the desire for a real fight. The 7 were mostly manufactured, not just their image and movies but, everything.  They went to Vought Camp and Vought schools they were indoctrinated from a very young age. Maeve WAS a good person before joining the 7 it's why she's trying to hard to make up for the airplane incident.  Annie is still a good person. She hasn't been corrupted by the fame/media/image makers.

It would be interesting to see not only why Vought put him on ice but, why his team hated him. We're assuming he did something awful but, other than being a bully and hazing Gun Powder and being a bit misogynistic he doesn't seem too awful (when compared to the rest). 

I can't believe we only have 2 episodes left, feels like there's not enough time to deal with everything. Maeve is missing. Annie going rogue, Butcher and Hughie using Temp V, SB/Homelander/Butcher round 2, A Train heart condition (is he dead dead?)  Kimiko's powers, and MM revenge and I guess Victoria and her daughter is another dangling thread. Plus, Homelander going even further off the Deep End.

[gonzosgirrl]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'm confused how and when Soldier Boy de-powers other supes. He was just charging up when TNT tried to zap him and they fizzled. So how did Homelander still have his powers while SB was sitting on top of him and charging up?

He wasn't already depleted when he was charging up for the twins. Maybe it's the act of charging (drawing in all that power) that zaps the V, not the blast?* And since he had already just discharged, it wasn't as strong for the Homelander strike? Or maybe it did begin to deplete him and that's why they were able to hold him down at all?

*ETA I realize that doesn't track with Kimiko being the only one who lost powers in Russia, but maybe it doens't work on the Temp V the same, so Hughie and Butcher weren't affected?

Edited June 26, 2022 by gonzosgirrl

[Bruinsfan]

21 hours ago, AntFTW said:

I imagine that Butcher remained with SB, and told Hughie to leave, because he thought he would live as he now has Homelander’s powers (except flight it seems). If Homelander can be killed with the nuke power, Butcher staying with SB until he blasts Homelander means that Butcher can also be killed and I don’t think Butcher would have risked his own life if he thought he would die in the process.

I interpreted that as Butcher being fine with being killed if it took Homelander out too, but not wanting Hughie to die for helping them. I don't really see Butcher as someone who enjoys or values his own life much, outside of his obsession with vengeance.

I think Annie is so focused on Soldier Boy being the utmost threat because she just witnessed a houseful of people being killed or horribly maimed as collateral damage of one of his meltdowns, and the explosion in NYC that demolished a building and killed at least 19 others is fresh on her mind. She knows rationally that Homelander has been responsible for the deaths of numerous people, but she wasn't there to actually see it happen like Maeve was, and the one person she's seen dead at his hands in grisly fashion was both a willing co-conspirator of hers who accepted the risk and a fellow super. We as an audience can sit back and assess Homelander as the greater threat and a more malevolent one, but the most horrible stuff she's seen has been due to Soldier Boy, and she has no experience or even secondhand knowledge of his motivations (thanks Hughie!).

[millennium]

Probably a UO, but I don't like Hughie or Frenchie very much.   I would not be unhappy if those characters died (unlikely I know).  They feel like a drag on the show.

[DeeDee79]

48 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

I interpreted that as Butcher being fine with being killed if it took Homelander out too, but not wanting Hughie to die for helping them. I don't really see Butcher as someone who enjoys or values his own life much, outside of his obsession with vengeance.

I think Annie is so focused on Soldier Boy being the utmost threat because she just witnessed a houseful of people being killed or horribly maimed as collateral damage of one of his meltdowns, and the explosion in NYC that demolished a building and killed at least 19 others is fresh on her mind. She knows rationally that Homelander has been responsible for the deaths of numerous people, but she wasn't there to actually see it happen like Maeve was, and the one person she's seen dead at his hands in grisly fashion was both a willing co-conspirator of hers who accepted the risk and a fellow super. We as an audience can sit back and assess Homelander as the greater threat and a more malevolent one, but the most horrible stuff she's seen has been due to Soldier Boy, and she has no experience or even secondhand knowledge of his motivations (thanks Hughie!).

I interpreted your 1st point the same. 

For the 2nd point considering that she was directly threatened by Homelander who told her that he would burn the entire world just because, was front and center to the threat that he and Stormfront posed to the point of banding with Maeve to neutralize him, menacing her boyfriend in front of her and then telling Alex not to join the seven because Homelander had threatened to kill her I would say that she knows exactly how much worse Homelander is. The only reason why she hasn't seen it on the show and is gung ho on seeing Soldier Boy as the greater threat is for plot.

Edited June 26, 2022 by DeeDee79

[roctavia]

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

He wasn't already depleted when he was charging up for the twins. Maybe it's the act of charging (drawing in all that power) that zaps the V, not the blast?* And since he had already just discharged, it wasn't as strong for the Homelander strike? Or maybe it did begin to deplete him and that's why they were able to hold him down at all?

*ETA I realize that doesn't track with Kimiko being the only one who lost powers in Russia, but maybe it doens't work on the Temp V the same, so Hughie and Butcher weren't affected?

I'm pretty sure the TNT twins just have a crappy power and were so old/run down/out of shape that it just didn't work for them and had nothing to do with SB and his potential to get rid of people's powers.

[Castiels Cat]

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

He wasn't already depleted when he was charging up for the twins. Maybe it's the act of charging (drawing in all that power) that zaps the V, not the blast?* And since he had already just discharged, it wasn't as strong for the Homelander strike? Or maybe it did begin to deplete him and that's why they were able to hold him down at all?

*ETA I realize that doesn't track with Kimiko being the only one who lost powers in Russia, but maybe it doens't work on the Temp V the same, so Hughie and Butcher weren't affected?

There's something we are missing... or it could be exactly that ..  temp V gets a pass.

SB was weakened and he weakened Homelander but did not completely knock him out. What mattered was that Homelander ran and was scared.

It will get interesting. 

[MissL]

I don’t have much to add except that I thought it was sweet both MM and Butcher were sad for Frenchie missing herogasm.  And That they said it in almost the exact same way.  Reminds you they used to be a team. Hope those crazy kids can work it out eventually.

Well also and I’m hoping for a redemption of some kind for soldier boy and I can’t seem to hate him the same way I hate Homelander and I totally recognize it’s just because it’s Jensen because I think the character as they’ve shown us probably doesn’t deserve the bit of me that keeps hoping there was more to the story of MMS grandpa getting killed.

[Castiels Cat]

4 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I would really love some more backstory here.  I can see why Vought wanted SB taken out. He was a soldier that became a "talent" but probably always had the desire for a real fight. The 7 were mostly manufactured, not just their image and movies but, everything.  They went to Vought Camp and Vought schools they were indoctrinated from a very young age. Maeve WAS a good person before joining the 7 it's why she's trying to hard to make up for the airplane incident.  Annie is still a good person. She hasn't been corrupted by the fame/media/image makers.

It would be interesting to see not only why Vought put him on ice but, why his team hated him. We're assuming he did something awful but, other than being a bully and hazing Gun Powder and being a bit misogynistic he doesn't seem too awful (when compared to the rest). 

I can't believe we only have 2 episodes left, feels like there's not enough time to deal with everything. Maeve is missing. Annie going rogue, Butcher and Hughie using Temp V, SB/Homelander/Butcher round 2, A Train heart condition (is he dead dead?)  Kimiko's powers, and MM revenge and I guess Victoria and her daughter is another dangling thread. Plus, Homelander going even further off the Deep End.

It feels like way too much to tie up satisfactorily.  Well we know Homelander will still be around next year as will Vought and the Boys... some things will have to be left hanging for next season.

[Castiels Cat]

4 minutes ago, MissL said:

I don’t have much to add except that I thought it was sweet both MM and Butcher were sad for Frenchie missing herogasm.  And That they said it in almost the exact same way.  Reminds you they used to be a team. Hope those crazy kids can work it out eventually.

Well also and I’m hoping for a redemption of some kind for soldier boy and I can’t seem to hate him the same way I hate Homelander and I totally recognize it’s just because it’s Jensen because I think the character as they’ve shown us probably doesn’t deserve the bit of me that keeps hoping there was more to the story of MMS grandpa getting killed.

I speculated on this in the spoiler/spec thread... agree that I do not see him tossing the car. 

He is a great foil to Homelander and I like the contrast of his Independent style and absolute competence with the current crew's highly curated presentation and .... highly variable competence ... I love the Deep but... yeesh. 

[Castiels Cat]

10 hours ago, Affogato said:

Ummm…….? 

Silly humor. 

SB is wearing something like kevlar not a spandex leotard. He made fun of Homelander's Cape.

I thought it was a funny thing to do in such a brutal fight but it probably establishes his mindset. He wouldn't be caught dead in something like that. 

Of course it could also have been psychological warfare... IDK.