S12.E05: In Hot Water

[65mickey]

Well she said to Kyle Of course you don't remember it you were drunk. I don't think Kyle appreciated that. 

[Jel]

36 minutes ago, 65mickey said:

Well she said to Kyle Of course you don't remember it you were drunk. I don't think Kyle appreciated that. 

I kinda did though ;)

[film noire]

1 hour ago, Baltimore Betty said:

If it was not the statement about how Porter had a diverse group of people in the hot tub with her that upset her (why the hell would that offend Crystal anyway), what was it?

Exactly - I also have a problem with Crystal suddenly claiming the "kids in the pool" story was fine (as she did on WWHL) because if that's the case, then nothing she did that night makes any sense.

If the "kids in the pool" story was not the issue, then why did Crystal not say, "That's not the story I found very dark and hurtful and problematic - that story is just fine" and then share  the comments that actually did disturb her? If the "kids" story is not the issue, then why were the questions Crystal asked Garcelle about that story (as was the insult: "I know! These are big words!") Why waste time asking Garcelle if she knew the details, or found the story problematic? Why announce that Sutton's story was a test of perception, a Rorshach, if this was not the story that Crystal found problematic?  That whole conversation that night was based on Crystal acting as if Sutton's story about the kids in the pool was 1) The source of the controversy  2) Very dark, hurtful, problematic, and (as Crystal previously said) capable of causing Sutton to be "canceled". 

And yet now, Crystal is claiming the story is fine -  no problem at all! - and it was yet another sooper-sekret thing Sutton said that was dark and hurtful. And we're supposed to do what with that -  not notice the vast discrepancy between those two positions? Pretend we don't see bullshit being flung like glitter? She was one of my favorites, but I'm liking her less and less the more she yammers on about this - changing her story in ways that demand we pretend she didn't do what she did, or say what she said that night - and treating Sutton like a problematic Russian nesting doll, each figure guilty of worse and worse statements, none of them ever to be openly revealed. 

Edited June 10, 2022 by film noire

[Mar]

2 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Why did  Crystal come out of the gate so hot with Sutton?  People of color can have their own biases, does she think Sutton is an easy target because she is from the south?  Crystal is coming off as a preachy bully and this will bite her in the ass.

I don’t know how true this is, but I read that the reason Kyle was so adamant with Crystal is because they were all hot-miked during that entire situation and Kyle knows that nothing else was said by Sutton. The article also said that Crystal was warned by producers that this would be her last season if she did not “bring it” as Rinna says. 

[65mickey]

1 hour ago, Mar said:

The article also said that Crystal was warned by producers that this would be her last season if she did not “bring it” as Rinna says. 

Bingo! I think that Crystal for whatever reasosn really wants to stay on the housewives show. What else does she have going on? Her children are too young to be a part of the show, and we rarely see her husband. She does not have a career and so far as I know she has not come up with a product to shill.  So might as well go back to Sutton and comeup with a little controversy. 

I would like to add that I think Garcelle's sister Chantal is beautiful. It is nice to see a loving sibling relationship. Too bad she is not on more often. 

Just now, 65mickey said:

Bingo! I think that Crystal for whatever reasosn really wants to stay on the housewives show. What else does she have going on? Her children are too young to be a part of the show, and we rarely see her husband. She does not have a career and so far as I know she has not come up with a product to shill.  So might as well go back to Sutton and stir up an old controversy. 

I would like to add that I think Garcelle's sister Chantal is beautiful. It is nice to see a loving sibling relationship. Too bad she is not on more often. 

[65mickey]

Don't know what happened here with the double post and can't fix it☹️

[SemiCharmedLife]

3 hours ago, 65mickey said:

Bingo! I think that Crystal for whatever reasosn really wants to stay on the housewives show. What else does she have going on? Her children are too young to be a part of the show, and we rarely see her husband. She does not have a career and so far as I know she has not come up with a product to shill.  So might as well go back to Sutton and comeup with a little controversy. 

I would like to add that I think Garcelle's sister Chantal is beautiful. It is nice to see a loving sibling relationship. Too bad she is not on more often. 

Just some info:  Crystal has a business with her brother called Real Coco.  It includes drinks made with coconut water, as well as other coconut products.  

Crystal may enjoy the fame that comes with the Real Housewives franchise.  Although, at the reunion, she was very emotional about the abuse she received from some viewers and was considering if it was worth it.  

[Dixie Sugarbaker]

Crystal has got to get her story together if she wants to continue this storyline. First she says that she reacted to Sutton because of something Sutton said prior to the don’t see color conversation, which she says was their first conversation, but Kyle is there and they are miked and nothing problematic is said. Then Sutton mentions the pool conversation, and the clip shows Crystal being somewhat offended by it (which kind of annoyed me because Sutton wasn’t saying that everything is okay, just that she was seeing progress from when she was the age of her daughter) but that conversation, according to Kyle, was the next day and again they were miked. Then on WWHL, Crystal says it was another conversation, but she has already said their first conversation was the Aspen “are you that girl”, so how could another conversation have affected her in THAT conversation to react so forcefully to Sutton?

Crystal is messy, sloppy, and thin-skinned, which can be a good thing in a HW if they don’t try complete character assassination on their victim. She is playing a really dangerous game with Sutton’s reputation, and that is really shitty.

[Joan van Snark]

On 6/9/2022 at 12:44 PM, bencr said:

Crystal's use of the word "dark" to mean "evil" could be construed as racially insensitive.

Following is a discussion of the use of the word "dark" as a metaphor for evil (from the web site teachingtraveling.com):

"The wonderful children’s book Sulwe by Lupita Nyong’o and Vashti Harrison ends  with the realization that darkness — both in the sky and in skin color — is beautiful and necessary. Yet, so many of us persist in using the term “dark” or “darkness” as a metaphor for 'bad things,' 'evil' — or anything negative.  This is problematic, and has profound ramifications. It’s time to reexamine our use of the metaphor “darkness,” and to shift away from it."

Wow really????  As a white person who is not racist, I know that I shy away from discussions of race except with people of other races I am very good friends with just because of the word police thing where virtually ANYTHING you say can be twisted to imply that you are racist.  I know that many white people refuse to discuss any racial topics in public for this very reason.  Being so pedantic does more harm than good, in my opinion. 

Anyway, Sutton has an awkward way of saying things but I do not detect an iota of malevolence from her towards non-white people (or should I more correctly say ethnically non-European?). I believe in that conversation a year ago Crystal was just looking for Sutton to say one thing the 'wrong' way for her to jump on.  I think this is exactly what Garcelle was talking about.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Joan van Snark

[Ms Blue Jay]

I'm considering cancelling my channel that carries this show (and Dubai - though Dubai did nothing wrong).  I had a really ill feeling with this latest episode.  I really dreaded pressing "play" after it came out.  Just, ugh to the whole thing.  I am in no way looking forward to what happens next.

[IslandGirl]

13 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I'm considering cancelling my channel that carries this show (and Dubai - though Dubai did nothing wrong).  I had a really ill feeling with this latest episode.  I really dreaded pressing "play" after it came out.  Just, ugh to the whole thing.  I am in no way looking forward to what happens next.

Yes, I know what you mean… 😞❤️

[Set Them Free]

When Crystal first said “other things were said”, I assumed it was Sutton’s support for Dolce and Gabbana despite their racist ad in China back in 2019.

I also thought the real reason that Garcelle thought Crystal was gunning for Sutton was because of Sutton’s support for D&G.  

But bringing that up on the show would probably create a lot of collateral damage, for Sutton’s business, and possibly for the show (as I read somewhere that D&G has sued others that have talked about their ad.)

After watching the show and what Crystal actually said, I am convinced that the “dark” comment still refers to Sutton’s defense of D&G.

But, in any case, everyone acting like they can’t possibly figure out what Crystal would find so dark, when there is such a huge story out there, is pretty disingenuous.  

I like Crystal.  Still, when Garcelle basically insinuated that Crystal had nefarious motives with Sutton, Crystal should have just said “I am sorry you feel that way” and moved on.  She could have avoided obvious trap.  

[Hiyo]

Quote

Why is Crystal on this show?

I like her. She has money, her husband has Hollywood connections, which is good enough for this franchise.

Quote

As a person of color, I actually like when people don’t see color.

That's fine for you, but a bit different for some of us.

Quote

What a piece of garbage Crystal is to tell Garcelle these are big words—now it could be said that’s about the most racist thing said so far Crystal…

Except it's not really racist.

Quote

I believe in that conversation a year ago Crystal was just looking for Sutton to say one thing the 'wrong' way for her to jump on.

Except Crystal was having a conversation with Kyle that didn't involve Sutton in any way that Sutton jumped in on. If Sutton had stayed out of it, things would have turned out a bit differently.

[CallmeCray]

Dammit, I need to rewatch some of last season - my memory of that first convo and other related events is too fuzzy! 

I wish we could fast forward while watching on demand…I have no desire to see (or hear) Erika or Rinna.  

Here goes nothing!

Edited June 11, 2022 by CallmeCray

[CallmeCray]

Ok, not sure if it’s a no-no to post about a re-watch of an episode from last season, so feel free to delete this, if needed!

I wasn’t posting or reading last season, (I wasn’t even watching the episodes during the week regularly, but would binge here and there to catch up) so it was interesting to read back and see that not only was I NOT the only one who thought they’d missed something from the initial Kyle/Crystal/Sutton conversation, but more than one poster mentioned feeling that way or wondering about editing.  I remember going, “wait, what?” and rewinding to see what I had missed.   I don’t necessarily think that anymore, I think it really may have just been “clunky” editing during that episode.

I’m glad I’m re-watching, because there are things that I didn’t remember or remember differently.  I think I may have fallen down a re-watching rabbit hole, actually - my memory could use the refresher.

[film noire]

Quote

Except it's not really racist.

It's a microaggression at the very least, imo, and in most workplaces, anyone mocking a Black woman about her (supposed) inability to recognize a "big word"  would be in serious trouble. Garcelle handled it with her usual grace - a knowing line in her confessional about having plenty of big words at her disposal to throw Crystal's way, words she chose not to use - but Garcelle's willingness to clock the speedbump and move on (instead of turning it into a storyline against Crystal, frex)  doesn't erase the fact that Crystal crossed a line.

Edited June 11, 2022 by film noire

[Surrealist]

3 hours ago, CallmeCray said:

Ok, not sure if it’s a no-no to post about a re-watch of an episode from last season, so feel free to delete this, if needed!

I wasn’t posting or reading last season, (I wasn’t even watching the episodes during the week regularly, but would binge here and there to catch up) so it was interesting to read back and see that not only was I NOT the only one who thought they’d missed something from the initial Kyle/Crystal/Sutton conversation, but more than one poster mentioned feeling that way or wondering about editing.  I remember going, “wait, what?” and rewinding to see what I had missed.   I don’t necessarily think that anymore, I think it really may have just been “clunky” editing during that episode.

I’m glad I’m re-watching, because there are things that I didn’t remember or remember differently.  I think I may have fallen down a re-watching rabbit hole, actually - my memory could use the refresher.

I think "clunky" editing is a major issue on this show. 

You're braver than me for rewatching this mess. 😂

Edited June 11, 2022 by Surrealist

[Surrealist]

2 hours ago, film noire said:

It's a microaggression at the very least, imo, and in most workplaces, anyone mocking a Black woman about her (supposed) inability to recognize a "big word"  would be in serious trouble. Garcelle handled it with her usual grace - a knowing line in her confessional about having plenty of big words at her disposal to throw Crystal's way, words she chose not to use - but Garcelle's willingness to clock the speedbump and move on (instead of turning it into a storyline against Crystal, frex)  doesn't erase the fact that Crystal crossed a line.

This season's Reunion show might be the most exciting thing to happen this season.

[IslandGirl]

18 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I'm considering cancelling my channel that carries this show (and Dubai - though Dubai did nothing wrong).  I had a really ill feeling with this latest episode.  I really dreaded pressing "play" after it came out.  Just, ugh to the whole thing.  I am in no way looking forward to what happens next.

In fact, the abuse Crystal is receiving says more about us as viewers than any of the Real Housewives or the issues & does make me uncomfortable taking part in it, even as a spectator. With all that’s going on in the USA, Ukraine (& other countries etc…) these days, this kind of thing isn’t exactly soul soothing…

[IslandGirl]

7 hours ago, Hiyo said:

I like her. She has money, her husband has Hollywood connections, which is good enough for this franchise.

Except it's not really racist.

Except Crystal was having a conversation with Kyle that didn't involve Sutton in any way that Sutton jumped in on. If Sutton had stayed out of it, things would have turned out a bit differently.

Yes, I actually agree with you that it’s not inherently necessarily racist! But one can’t help point out Crystal’s hypocrisy—I can only imagine how Crystal would have flipped her lid had that been said to her.  More than anything, it’s Crystal’s hypocrisy that grates no end… 

[IslandGirl]

I’m beginning to feel like this is all made up pretend drama that’s gotten out of hand & off script. I really need to wean myself off these shows altogether!

[bencr]

8 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Quote

What a piece of garbage Crystal is to tell Garcelle these are big words—now it could be said that’s about the most racist thing said so far Crystal…

Except it's not really racist.

Well, according to Christal's perspective, it's racist if Garcelle experiences it as racist. That's the rabbit hole in Christal's logic. It's not whether what you said is or is not racist that matters, and it's not your intent that matters; it's how I experience what you said.

Edited June 11, 2022 by bencr

[CallmeCray]

50 minutes ago, Surrealist said:

I think "clunky" editing is a major issue on this show. 

You're braver than me for rewatching this mess. 😂

I blame ridiculous insomnia and being housebound for a bit!  

I’m glad I rewatched that one.  I either didn’t remember or had missed part of the talk between Crystal and Sutton that next morning outside.  Crystal was pretty open and gracious and she basically told Sutton straight out that she did not believe her to be racist.  It felt very honest and sincere.  There was more positive discussion and it looked like both sides came away with a better understanding of one another and of the issue.  That could have been the end of it, it really felt like there was progress made and some healing between the two.

[Surrealist]

33 minutes ago, CallmeCray said:

 That could have been the end of it, it really felt like there was progress made and some healing between the two.

I wish that had been the end of it. 

At this point, I'm anticipating the Reunion show more than anything. Maybe we'll learn something else about what went down.

[Starlight925]

The "Big Words" statement by Crystal really bothered me.

Paraphrasing, to Garcelle, "I guess we don't all understand "Big Words"."

Um, Crystal, you said that Big Word wrong.  

Crystal said, "It's like a roshok".  Um, what's a "roshok?

She meant "Rorschach", which is pronounced very differently from the way she said it.

Pronounced "rorshak", with a longer "o", not a short "o", like "on".

Also, since it's an uncommon word, it's more appropriate to say, "It's like a Rorschach Test", and then to follow up with, "you know, the inkblot test".

So for Crystal to make that statement really bothered me.  She pronounced it wrong, and she offered little explanation.  But I found her "big words" statement demeaning.

Liking Crystal less.   and Less.

[Boo Boo]

It's interesting to me -- the people that loved Crystal first season and though Sutton was out of touch with the "I don't see color" seem to be thinking Crystal's "dark" comment are dangerous.  I do agree -- the way Crystal went about this is wrong, and to essentially suggest on national TV that Suttton is a racist and having to drag out what was said is wrong.

I wonder if Sutton has more support though now because she (and Garcelle) are the only ones who take Erika on. 

[Cosmocrush]

Meanwhile, the soulless selfish Mrs. Giradi sits smirking on the sidelines.  It's like they have all forgotten her ridiculous tall tales while once again freaking out over Crystal's word choices.

[Shannah Banana]

59 minutes ago, Cosmocrush said:

Meanwhile, the soulless selfish Mrs. Giradi sits smirking on the sidelines.  It's like they have all forgotten her ridiculous tall tales while once again freaking out over Crystal's word choices.

Yes!  That's what I came to say and you said it better.  The upside is if all Erika has is jumping on Sutton's bones every chance she gets, this could be her last season.  The girl has nothing but an ever dwindling clothes rack. 

[Jel]

2 minutes ago, Shannah Banana said:

Yes!  That's what I came to say and you said it better.  The upside is if all Erika has is jumping on Sutton's bones every chance she gets, this could be her last season.  The girl has nothing but an ever dwindling clothes rack. 

Hey, come on, that's not fair!

She also has her kitchen sink mat. ;)

[Hiyo]

Quote

It's a microaggression at the very least, imo, and in most workplaces, anyone mocking a Black woman about her (supposed) inability to recognize a "big word"  would be in serious trouble. 

Except it isn't. It's something most people regardless of race and ethnicity say to any other race and ethnicity.

A true microaggression would be saying "You're very intelligent/eloquent/well spoken for a...".

Quote

Well, according to Christal's perspective, it's racist if Garcelle experiences it as racist.

Not sure that's how her perspective works, or that Garcelle would even perceive it as racist, since she probably wouldn't.

[Surrealist]

30 minutes ago, Jel said:

Hey, come on, that's not fair!

She also has her kitchen sink mat. ;)

Every time they show Erika's bungalow (pool house), I die. 🤣

[Jel]

3 minutes ago, Surrealist said:

Every time they show Erika's bungalow (pool house), I die. 🤣

I know, it's like a visual representation of her comeuppance. Remember her first season, she was all private jets and travelling glam squads? And now she has a, i'd say fetching kitchen mat, but to be honest, it looked kinda busted.

[Shannah Banana]

38 minutes ago, Jel said:

Hey, come on, that's not fair!

She also has her kitchen sink mat. ;)

And her vacuum cleaner!  Maybe she still has her Dyson too!  Although she has probably contracted that job out to Mikey since he has nothing to do because of her, well, ever dwindling clothes rack. 

[Baltimore Betty]

25 minutes ago, Shannah Banana said:

And her vacuum cleaner!  Maybe she still has her Dyson too!  Although she has probably contracted that job out to Mikey since he has nothing to do because of her, well, ever dwindling clothes rack. 

Also, someone has to get the Door Dash order from the gate.

[65mickey]

And don't forget her unheated pool. Oh the horror!

[RoseAllDay]

Been off the forum for a few days. Thanks, all, for the recs on the post about Crystal. It was hard trying to write exactly what I wanted to say about this extremely toxic and sensitive storyline.

Somebody here asked why Crystal came out “so hot” against Sutton. Easy. To a bully like Crystal, Sutton has the “kick me” sign on her back. She wears her emotions on her sleeve, is easily upset, will bend over backward trying to “make things right,” and will give people secondthirdfourthfifth chances — IOW, she can be too trusting and sincere at times. Bullies pick up on that PDQ and run with it —  as Crystal has. And because Sutton appears to be so open with her feelings, that sets her apart from the other women. Crystal would not dare pull that shit with Erika, or Rinna, or Kyle — who “runs” the show (according to some posts I’ve seen here) — and she is about to find out what it’s like to cross Garcelle. 

Crystal must think that this is the only way to keep herself “relevant” and “edgy” to the show by using a current and serious issue like racism to attack a fellow cast member, while at the same time pretending that all fences are mended. That is playing with fire, and there are no words for how repellent I find it. The damage this kind of allegation can do to a person’s business, reputation, and life is huge, especially in this hot social climate. This is not some silly fight over a table (BH), a sugar ribbon being broken off a cake (OC), or who gets the biggest room at the resort (NY). 

She knows what she’s doing by not putting it out there exactly what was said. She knows that Sutton will have to constantly explain and defend herself against nobody-knows-what. Further, because of who Sutton is and who Crystal is, people will believe the worst — another abuse of the issue of racism. 

Crystal likes to present herself as the fragile flower when in fact she has been one of the most cynical women I’ve seen on any HW franchise I follow. She starts shit, acts all innocent and “violated,” and then sits back and watches the train wreck  that follows. Watch her expressions in those scenes, and when Sutton, in particular, grovels — she enjoys it.

I hope this blows over soon, for Sutton’s sake. But it seems to be gaining legs every episode. I can’t stand Crystal. I’ve tried to give her the benefit of the doubt, but this woman has, to me, no redeeming qualities. At. All. 👎

[Surrealist]

2 hours ago, Shannah Banana said:

And her vacuum cleaner!  Maybe she still has her Dyson too!  Although she has probably contracted that job out to Mikey since he has nothing to do because of her, well, ever dwindling clothes rack. 

I don't remember the name of her female assistant, but I'm thinking: how does she afford two assistants? I always assumed they get paid well, but she's only making money off the show at this point, right?

[film noire]

3 hours ago, Hiyo said:

A true microaggression would be saying "You're very intelligent/eloquent/well spoken for a...".

You don't need to include "For a" (insert ethnic/gender identity here) for it to be a micro-aggression. Saying "You're so articulate" (period) to a Black person is based on the bigoted assumption that Black people are not routinely well-spoken, intelligent - and unfamiliar with 'big words' - so there’s no need to include "for a Black person".   (And since I've already posted three times on this topic, last word is yours.) 

2 hours ago, Shannah Banana said:

 Mikey since he has nothing to do because of her, well, ever dwindling clothes rack. 

Hmm - is it possible Erika's "Say hey, y'all,  to my pudenda" (aka pantygate ) was actually an early sign of looming financial trouble? (First they came for my undies...!) And does anybody else wonder if Mrs Girardi still has that oh-so-charming "Cunty" necklace (the one thing she deserves to keep?  ; ) 

I cannot wait for Garcelle to lay into that thieving vulture of a bone-bag next week.  Ms. Beauvais has her eye on the prize.

Edited June 11, 2022 by film noire

[Hiyo]

Quote

You don't need to include "For a" (insert whatever ethnic/gender identity here) for it to be a micro-aggression. Saying "You're so articulate" (period) to a Black person is based on the bigoted assumption that Black people are not routinely well-spoken, intelligent - and unfamiliar with 'big words' - so there’s no need to include "for a Black person".  (And since I've already posted three times on this issue, last word is yours.)

I know it doesn't need to be included, I just wanted my example to be as through as possible. And I still maintain "big words" isn't a microaggression.

[Jel]

I rewatched it today and I wondered if she meant the "I know, big words" in almost a self-deprecating way. Like look at me and my fancy vocab, why I gotta be a that way?! IT's nuanced, I know, but I definitely have a self-deprecating sense of humour and way of speaking (years of old school English parenting!) so I thought...maybe?  And in that case, it wouldn't have mattered who asked. (But, betcha anything that she thinks she's smarter than most.)

If she said it because she assumed Garcelle was just too uneducated and stooopid to get it, then it's beyond micro aggression I think.

Intention matters.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Jel

[RoseAllDay]

48 minutes ago, Jel said:

I rewatched it today and I wondered if she meant the "I know, big words" in almost a self-deprecating way. Like look at me and my fancy vocab, why I gotta be a that way?! IT's nuanced, I know, but I definitely have a self-deprecating sense of humour and way of speaking (years of old school English parenting!) so I thought...maybe?  And in that case, it wouldn't have mattered who asked. (But, betcha anything that she thinks she's smarter than most.)

If she said it because she assumed Garcelle was just too uneducated and stooopid to get it, then it's beyond micro aggression I think.

Intention matters.

It is microaggression. The women, to her, just don’t “get” her issue with Sutton (because they can’t read minds?), so therefore they’re too stupid to understand where she’s coming from. It’s also condescension and pretension, and having to be the smartest person in the room. 

To me she said it very quickly and dismissively, very much a dig, and at Garcelle, of all people. Heather Dubrow often does the same thing, only Heather does it better.

[CallmeCray]

After rewatching, I’m not even sure Crystal’s “big words” comment was aimed at Garcelle alone, if I’m being honest.  Judging by Garcelle’s response in her talking head, I don’t even think SHE took it as directed solely at her - and yes, she handled it quite gracefully, as we’ve come to expect from Garcelle.  She’s always level-headed and keeps her cool.  

It was a snide comment, regardless - but now I’m considering that she may not have been targeting Garcelle with it.

Also upon rewatch, I’m reminded that Sutton still frustrates the hell out of me, too.  She’s the worst about letting shit go and she gets too damn worked up and butt-hurt after things have gone down involving her.  She just can’t get over it and seems to dwell on having been wronged, called out, etc.  There’s a pearl-clutching, “you’ve offended my sensibilities” feel to it and it’s like she is just not used to being challenged or criticized for anything.  I just don’t have much respect for the fact that she later expects sympathy and coddling about what she’s been through after the latest kerfuffle.   I do NOT blame her for not wanting there to be any insinuation or inference to her having said something racist, of course.  

Kyle also needed to just shut up, as is often the case - it just gets bigger and bigger as they all pile on.  (She also doesn’t fully grasp the exact meaning of the term gaslighting, I don’t think).  I just block Dorit out as much as possible, but her frustration with the attention not being on her still just galls me.

Any chance Crystal had a change of heart and is protecting Sutton by NOT saying what had been said?  COULD there have been something said that was more disturbing, but Crystal thought twice about putting it out there for Sutton’s sake?  I’m probably questioning too much at this point, but looking at it all again HAS changed my perspective a little.  

It’s disappointing that there is so much upheaval about this issue and what it has done to the group dynamic at this point.  We’ll see how it all shakes out.  

[Shannah Banana]

3 hours ago, Surrealist said:

I don't remember the name of her female assistant, but I'm thinking: how does she afford two assistants? I always assumed they get paid well, but she's only making money off the show at this point, right?

Goodness knows what Erika is making money off of.  She was selling some hair extensions for double, triple? the price of she got from some other country.  I think this is really a common practice, but since it was Erika, she got her ass handed to her.  It was great.  Then she had that old geezer that unloaded her because she hassled him so much for money.  Or so I read.  On camera, she's all but hawking her panther ring to Diana.  Erika has really come down in the world, but she could still go further.

I kinda think Mikey and the assistant are window dressing for the show.  Yeah, they have a long standing relationship, but it seems Erika is in a dead stall, and what could they be doing?  So, she has them come over and they film and it makes her look like she still has some clout, to save her job, because once she loses this gig, they will really be out.  It's possible that nobody wants to work with Mikey and the assistant because of their association with Erika.  I don't know, just a thought. 

[Slakkie]

4 minutes ago, Shannah Banana said:

Goodness knows what Erika is making money off of.  She was selling some hair extensions for double, triple? the price of she got from some other country.  I think this is really a common practice, but since it was Erika, she got her ass handed to her.  It was great.  Then she had that old geezer that unloaded her because she hassled him so much for money.  Or so I read.  On camera, she's all but hawking her panther ring to Diana.  Erika has really come down in the world, but she could still go further.

I kinda think Mikey and the assistant are window dressing for the show.  Yeah, they have a long standing relationship, but it seems Erika is in a dead stall, and what could they be doing?  So, she has them come over and they film and it makes her look like she still has some clout, to save her job, because once she loses this gig, they will really be out.  It's possible that nobody wants to work with Mikey and the assistant because of their association with Erika.  I don't know, just a thought. 

She literally has no storyline other than telling everyone she did nothing wrong.  Her expiration date is coming if she does not figure something out and that new interview look is hideous - if she is paying someone she needs her money back

[Keywestclubkid]

She has some thoughts lol 

[jinjer]

On 6/9/2022 at 12:44 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Crystal should be allowed to say she had a conversation with Sutton when she first met her that made her uncomfortable. Which she has restated.  This episode.  Word for word.  Without people saying Oh she's trying to assassinate Sutton's character.

I would hate to be in a friend group where I'm never allowed to express discomfort.

Oh now I'm at the end of the episode and Sutton is bringing up something dark about Crystal that she won't reveal.  I'm sure that this will be totally accepted and adored by the cast.  

It's so stupid that Crystal is not allowed to have different opinions about what Sutton said.  Saying that people of different cultures are allowed in your pool.  Um.... okay why wouldn't they be?  Crystal has a totally different life experience than Sutton and it's okay for her to find those comments weird.

On 6/9/2022 at 10:16 PM, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Why is it that Crystal's words have so much power but Sutton's don't? 

Yes, words have power. And Sutton's were problematic. Crystal has the right to think their problematic. If we're going to claim that Crystal's words were so allegedly powerful then we should probably do the same for Sutton's. 

Again, I think Crystal should have handled this differently in terms of inferences that can be drawn. But if we're going to say "words have power," we should be careful about our own words characterizing what actually happened and what Crystal did or didn't say.

Well Crystal can certainly be bothered anyway she wants by Sutton's words. I do think the initial talk with Kyle was edited. There may be something more there. Crystal may describe it as "dark" if she wants. Since it was a conversation about race, when she attaches "dark" to it, others will assume racist. Sutton was sitting at dinner that night and was willing to have Crystal out the conversation, Crystal had every opportunity to clear it up for everyone. If it was something other than what we have heard, I wish Crystal had told us then and there. It's ok if Crystal thought it was dark, it's ok if Garcelle didn't. It's not up to me as a white woman to tell Crystal how to feel about racism. But since Sutton was willing for Crystal to out her, I do wish Crystal had done it to clear the entire thing up. Sutton had just spoken the week before in the limo about how she had learned to listen to Crystal last summer. We could have learned how that discussion took place and how listening to a POC's views on racism can educate us all.

WRT to Sutton - her claims about Crystal were more direct and pointed. Crystal could refute them or inquire further about them. Sutton just had a vague "dark". 

On 6/9/2022 at 1:50 PM, Hiyo said:

I saw it as shade.

This is in regard to Rorshach being a  "Big word." The only other thing, and this might be giving Crystal a HUGE benefit of the doubt, because I just would hope she wouldn't be so offensive to Garcelle, is that the other women said "Violated is a very big word," to her last year.  I don't know. 

Edited June 12, 2022 by jinjer

[Ms Blue Jay]

It's funny to read that Crystal saying the Rorschach comment was obviously done with the worst of intentions and is obviously a racial aggression towards Garcelle, which.............. we can't in anyway know that.

But Sutton obviously has the best of intentions, she's just clumsy, and awkward, and innocent, and it's not fair to feel offended at her comments because that would be bullying and because she's Southern.

It doesn't seem like a fair double standard.  All these things that people say about Sutton about being clumsy -- that's how I took Crystal saying the Rorschach "big words" comment.  She's so obviously not good on her feet.  I could see how it could be taken badly, but I don't think we know how she meant it.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[jinjer]

9 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

It's funny to read that Crystal saying the Rorschach comment was obviously done with the worst of intentions and is obviously a racial aggression towards Garcelle, which.............. we can't in anyway know that.

But Sutton obviously has the best of intentions, she's just clumsy, and awkward, and innocent, and it's not fair to feel offended at her comments because that would be bullying and because she's Southern.

It doesn't seem like a fair double standard.

I believe she was responding to Garcelle who asked what Rorshach was, that she hadn't heard it.  It's offensive to direct it to an adult to tell them a word is a "big" word when they don't know what a word means. I think she was shading them all because she felt they overreacted to violated last year and told her it was a big word and now she is telling them that Rorshach is a big word. I think Crystal has a real snarky side. I would hope she wasn't making a racial comment against Garcelle.

Edited June 12, 2022 by jinjer

[glowbug]

Crystal has a right to feel however she wants about what Sutton said and use whatever words she wants to use. I wouldn’t have used the word dark to describe the multiracial pool party story but I did find it very cringeworthy and moderately problematic. What I take issue with, and what I think Crystal needs to apologize for and be contrite about, is that she mentioned it at all while claiming to be friends with Sutton, especially after having discussed the issue privately and been given an apology, which Crystal says she believes to be sincere and has accepted. That behavior is what reflects poorly on her character. That isn’t something you do to a friend. It’s maybe something you do to an enemy. Saying that someone said something dark and then refusing to say what it was is shady and manipulative (either don’t mention it at all or say what was specifically said) but not worse than most housewife behavior. For me, it’s the fact that she’s stabbing Sutton in the back and being defensive and self righteous about it that is the problem. 

[CallmeCray]

One thing I realized that seems to have been lost in all of the “Violate-gate” issue was that what Crystal’s initial statement regarding Sutton opening her door and entering her room was that she felt HER SPACE had been violated.  I can totally see feeling that way if somebody entered my room without my saying “come in”.  I don’t even know if she ever said the words “Sutton violated me” - those are very different things.  Even if she DID say that she felt violated, her point was that her space had been violated.  Seems valid to me.

I would never consider entering someone’s room without both knocking and hearing a loud and clear permission to enter - even if the door was not closed all the way.  I imagine that most people feel that way.

Sutton seems to have tunnel vision and a sense of urgency to “make right” or settle the score when there has been conflict, though, and that’s all she can think about.  She’s oblivious as to the fact that she may be trampling on the other person’s space, feelings, or needs in order to get that feeling of relief after having made peace.   It’s a little selfish, but it seems like it comes from somewhere deep down - the same place from where her uber-defensive tendencies originate.  

I have a feeling her relationship with her psychotherapist mom has something to do with it, but I’m no expert, that’s for damn sure.  I’m guessing a lot was expected of Sutton and she’s hypersensitive to criticism.  I do feel bad for her in many ways, but that doesn’t make the consequences of her actions and the feelings of the others any less valid.

Edited June 12, 2022 by CallmeCray