Under The Banner Of Heaven - General Discussion

[Door County Cherry]

A devout detective's faith is tested as he investigates a brutal murder seemingly connected to an esteemed Utah family's spiral into LDS fundamentalism and their distrust in the government.

On Hulu

[CrystalBlue]

I watched the first two episodes which were available last night.  Very good and interesting so far.  My favorite person is Bill Taba (Gil Birmingham).

[Irlandesa]

I wanted to love this but the episodes felt like they had so much exposition. Very talky.

[MerBearStare]

The first two episodes were good and I'm going to watch the rest, but I thought the religious history parts were clunky and heavy-handed. Like "We're in the middle of this interrogation and you think I murdered my wife and baby, but let me tell you about the origins of mormonism."

[Amethyst]

It's a good story and well acted (especially by Billy Howle, he really stands out) but it's definitely a slow burn.  I can see why it wouldn't be for everybody.

1 hour ago, MerBearStare said:

I thought the religious history parts were clunky and heavy-handed. Like "We're in the middle of this interrogation and you think I murdered my wife and baby, but let me tell you about the origins of mormonism."

I agree.  Those scenes aren't merged in very well and just take me out of the main story.  As it is, so much of the series is already told in flashbacks but at least they feel relevant to the storyline.  

[pasdetrois]

It is very disjointed, but I'll watch for Garfield and Birmingham.

[monagatuna]

On 5/2/2022 at 8:24 PM, MerBearStare said:

The first two episodes were good and I'm going to watch the rest, but I thought the religious history parts were clunky and heavy-handed. Like "We're in the middle of this interrogation and you think I murdered my wife and baby, but let me tell you about the origins of mormonism."

You're not wrong, but the showmakers had a big task ahead of them; Krakauer's book is written in much the same way, and you can't just skip the Mormon history part of it, as it lends flavor and nuance to the case. (For anyone who hasn't read it, I recommend you do! It's fascinating.) I was raised around LDS, even went to church with them for awhile, and always thought they were just an offshoot of Christianity (which I was also raised in) and the origins and (some) current practices of Mormonism are absolutely bananacrackers (though to be fair you could say this of any religion) and the book is eye-opening.

Welp, that's a lot of parentheses...

[GloccaMorra]

I watched the first two episodes, and I'm hooked - I think Garfield was fascinating in his role.  It was much better than I expected, though at times a little bit clunky in direction. Still, I can't wait to see where this goes for the next few weeks. 

[GloccaMorra]

Episode 3 was even more riveting than the first two ! This show is just getting better and better. Garfield is so convincing in his role. Give him the Emmy now. 

[poeticlicensed]

I read the book many years ago and don't remember most of it. Im a bit bored with the history lesson, but I am intrigued by how the teachings are integrated in.everyday life of the most devout. 

I already have a sense that the answer is going to rock our detective to the core

[Avaleigh]

On 5/4/2022 at 11:12 AM, monagatuna said:

You're not wrong, but the showmakers had a big task ahead of them; Krakauer's book is written in much the same way, and you can't just skip the Mormon history part of it, as it lends flavor and nuance to the case. (For anyone who hasn't read it, I recommend you do! It's fascinating.) I was raised around LDS, even went to church with them for awhile, and always thought they were just an offshoot of Christianity (which I was also raised in) and the origins and (some) current practices of Mormonism are absolutely bananacrackers (though to be fair you could say this of any religion) and the book is eye-opening.

Welp, that's a lot of parentheses...

I read the book years ago (I think after the first or second season of Big Love) but wasn't sure that it would be possible to do an adaptation because there's so much history crammed into the book in addition to various side stories about other real life people who went of the deep end into LDS fundamentalism. 

The story of the Lafferty family is only part of what Under the Banner of Heaven covers. They go into detail about Joseph Smith, the Mountain Meadows Massacre and various splinter groups from the church. It touches on the FLDS, the Lebaron and Kingston clans, etc. I'm pretty sure even the Elizabeth Smart abduction comes up.

The showrunners had an enormous task with this adaptation and I think they've done a great job with making it both interesting and coherent. Keeping it focused on the Laffertys was the right call.

[Straycat80]

This is a really good series. I’m hooked. Andrew Garfield is so good in this role and also impressed by Kieran Culkin playing Sam the religious fanatic. I had never heard of the book and did not realize this was a true story. I’m liking the history about Joseph Smith and the Mormons which I also didn’t know too much about so I don’t mind the history lessons in between scenes. 

[meatball77]

I remember reading the book years ago and I thought the Mormon history pieces and the parts about how culty the Church is fascinated me.  I don't think I cared much about the true crime bits, I'd been reading FLDS memoir's before I started the book.

[Avaleigh]

3 hours ago, meatball77 said:

I remember reading the book years ago and I thought the Mormon history pieces and the parts about how culty the Church is fascinated me.  I don't think I cared much about the true crime bits, I'd been reading FLDS memoir's before I started the book.

I've read way too many FLDS and other memoirs about life in fundamentalist groups so I think that's another reason why the history bits don't feel heavy for me. I can understand though why it might feel like too much for viewers who are totally unfamiliar with these topics. 

For me Under the Banner of Heaven is probably the best of the books I've read on this subject because it does the most comprehensive job of explaining the psychology around LDS fundamentalism in addition to doing an excellent job of addressing how people who were previously part of the main line church could end up getting pulled into fundamentalism. It explains the history of the church and goes into the stories that this show makes clear the church would prefer people not talk about.

I really like the show's portrayal of Brenda Lafferty. I like that she's standing up to these guys and isn't just going to shut off her brain whenever her in-laws try to bully her. The scene where she asks Dan if he really thinks he's going to be able to do away with the amendments to the constitution once he's made sheriff was great. (Seriously, how nuts is this guy?)

Another scene I liked was the Lafferty father going off on his son for not paying the taxes and the licensing fee. The son tries to wrap up his decisions in their religion and the father just quotes the part of scripture that explains how they're supposed to obey the laws. Then of course the father goes from being mostly rational to being a psycho who gives his son lashes with his belt and punches to the nose until somebody has to physically restrain him. I have to admit though I kind of laughed when the father went into his Marquess of Queensbury boxing pose. 

Edited May 6, 2022 by Avaleigh

[GloccaMorra]

I have a question. In episode 3 at the end, Sam asks Pyre if he's a member of LDS.  Pyre says 'no'.  I thought he was a member of the Church, which is why he was getting his daughters ready for baptism ? 

[twoods]

The Laffertys are fucking nuts. Oh my goodness. Poor Brenda.

Edited May 6, 2022 by twoods

[Andyourlittledog2]

3 hours ago, GloccaMorra said:

I have a question. In episode 3 at the end, Sam asks Pyre if he's a member of LDS.  Pyre says 'no'.  I thought he was a member of the Church, which is why he was getting his daughters ready for baptism ? 

Pyre is having a crisis of faith due to this case. He also postponed baptizing his daughters suddenly, much to his wife's surprise and anger.  This seems to be the way this series is letting us know how much this case is affecting his faith. That's my take on it.

[DonnaMae]

I was surprised by that wedding scene in the church to see everyone dressed in white costumes.  Do members of the church do this today?

[Andyourlittledog2]

21 minutes ago, DonnaMae said:

I was surprised by that wedding scene in the church to see everyone dressed in white costumes.  Do members of the church do this today?

Those are special Temple garments. The part of the ritual where they move their hands across their necks symbolizes having their throats cut if they reveal what goes on in the Temple. The entire process and ritual is very long and complex and I don't know all about it but from that scene that is what I recognize from other things I've read or seen in documentaries etc. The fact that they specifically showed the throat slashing part is because the entire case hinges on the doctrine of blood atonement, which that symbolizes.

Add me to those who read the book ages ago and consider it one of my favorite non fiction books ever. I love Jon Krakauer's books in general and this one very much in particular. The research done to write it is so thorough and interesting. I was so happy when I heard about this series and am really enjoying it.

[DonnaMae]

Is this still done today?

[GloccaMorra]

2 hours ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

Pyre is having a crisis of faith due to this case. He also postponed baptizing his daughters suddenly, much to his wife's surprise and anger.  This seems to be the way this series is letting us know how much this case is affecting his faith. That's my take on it.

So by his response, he does seem to have made up his mind and 'no longer' with the church. (I did remember after I posted he postponed the baptisms for his girls). 

[Andyourlittledog2]

1 hour ago, DonnaMae said:

Is this still done today?

Yes. As far as I know nothing has changed really. Someone LDS probably has a better handle on all this but I don't think active LDS really appreciate this book or series so I have no idea if anyone with that background is watching so I answer what I do know. They do ritual baths and all kinds of things. Remember Brenda was surprised to be anointed in oil on her private parts? They were married in the Temple like regular LDS which I think the father and brothers were, just very old old school. Not fundamentalist polygamists with their own church offshoot and compounds etc but just very old school and staying true to their more radical history than your regular LDS do today. That's what I remember from the book anyway. If anyone with more info wants to chime in that'd help.

To be clear I am not disparaging LDS rituals and ceremonies or anything. All religions have their things that outsiders don't really 'get' or appreciate.

[Jordan Baker]

20 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

This is a really good series. I’m hooked. Andrew Garfield is so good in this role and also impressed by Kieran Culkin playing Sam the religious fanatic. I had never heard of the book and did not realize this was a true story. I’m liking the history about Joseph Smith and the Mormons which I also didn’t know too much about so I don’t mind the history lessons in between scenes. 

It's Rory Culkin (Kieran's brother) as Sam. I'm guessing Kieran is busy filming Season 4 of Succession.

I agree that the show is well-done, and the acting is top-notch, but I have yet to make it through a full episode. Every time there's a flashback, I know something really awful will be shown, and I just can't watch it. Too much cruelty to people and animals. 

I'll probably watch the beginning of Episode 4 until it gets too violent or disturbing and then I'll read the recaps.

 

[Avaleigh]

7 hours ago, DonnaMae said:

Is this still done today?

What's interesting about the temple stuff is that you can't get in without a temple recommend. The church wants to make sure that people are all in before they let them participate in temple. Everyone is welcome in church but to go to temple you have to be "active" and your tithing has to be up to date. 

The church got really upset some years ago when the show Big Love showed a temple ceremony in season 3. They tried to get the showrunners to cut the scene and made it clear that they felt something so sacred shouldn't be depicted for entertainment purposes. They did their best to keep it from happening but HBO ended up running the episode anyway.

Missionaries talk about how prospective converts aren't allowed to go to temple in the beginning and refer to it as making sure people don't get their "milk before meat". The impression that I got is that withholding parts of the LDS theology is a strategy the church uses in order to not overwhelm potential converts. To me it's not unlike how Scientologists don't reveal more of Hubbard's writings until people reach higher levels. They have to make sure people are on the hook before getting into some of the other parts of the theology. 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Avaleigh

[SunnyBeBe]

I’m watching.  I’d read about these murders years ago and was anxious to see this series. It’s better than I expected.  Though it’s a tough subject matter, it’s way less brutal than I expected.
 

 I’m learning a lot, even though I had pretty significant exposure to LDS years ago.  I had a good friend who converted, since her father and step mother were LDS.  I visited a local branch with her and got to know some local missionaries.  I read a lot of material they gave me and attended some lessons at my cousin’s house.  We had minor crushes on the missionaries, as high school students.  Of course, this was much to the dismay of my Fundie (Baptist) parents.  lol. Still,  I didn’t have any idea the extent of Mormon teachings.  I thought since the Osmonds were LDS…..it must be awesome! Lol. I would later read additional stories of how the LDS have been in crime stories, as Mark Hofmann.  I don’t judge other’s religion, but I don’t have the positive feelings about the LDS church that I used to.  Still, the killers in this story were off shoots, imo.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hofmann

Brenda’s parents were right. Her boyfriend was peculiar and not right for her.  She  was bright. I wonder why she didn’t sense the danger and radicalism in his family.  
 

I hated the scene of Pyre destroying his wife’s plans for the children’s baptism and then making love.  Why did he do that?  He seems clueless of how much work caring for a person with dementia is.  She’s his mom, in his house.  He should know.  
 

I suppose that even though they had a chiropractor practice, they didn’t take female patients.  ? 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[twoods]

Didn’t that old couple both get worked on by the chiropractor brothers? I’m assuming they take females. 
 

My cousin converted to Mormonism and we drove 9 hours for his wedding in Salt Lake, and then had to sit outside during his ceremony. Even his parents and brother couldn’t be in there since they aren’t Mormon. Ever since then I got a bad sense about the religion, plus having to give 10% of your earnings to the church and seeing their pastor’s wife have a 3 carat rock on her finger during the reception, figuring they take a nice cut from the donations. I did read that the bishops work without getting paid so  who knows, unless they were in a leadership position.

Edited May 6, 2022 by twoods

[redpencil]

2 hours ago, twoods said:

My cousin converted to Mormonism and we drove 9 hours for his wedding in Salt Lake, and then had to sit outside during his ceremony. Even his parents and brother couldn’t be in there since they aren’t Mormon. Ever since then I got a bad sense about the religion, plus having to give 10% of your earnings to the church and seeing their pastor’s wife have a 3 carat rock on her finger during the reception, figuring they take a nice cut from the donations. I did read that the bishops work without getting paid so  who knows, unless they were in a leadership position.

I am not watching this show but have been reading this thread out of curiosity, as I am an active LDS church member. Local lay leaders do not get paid and do it on a volunteer basis on top of whatever their actual job is (my father has been both a bishop and a counselor the next level up from the individual congregation, and it was many hours of work a week while also working full time as an accountant). The leader you met must have just had a high paying job. Tithing is very carefully handled and accounted for, and I think it would be very difficult for someone to be taking a cut, even if some rogue leader wanted to (and most people pay it online these days anyway). Most active members have some sort of assignment, all on a volunteer basis, whether it's a leader, or teaching a primary class, or any number of other things. Most of my adult life I had music assignments (as I play the piano and the organ) but currently I am on the activities committee for the women's organization within my congregation (not my favorite thing, but a change of pace for me). Nobody gets paid, but we do have a budget and get reimbursed for supplies or whatever.

Regarding the temple, yes, not even all members can enter. I myself have not done that yet (am still single and have chosen not to go on my own yet, though I could at any time) and had to wait outside for two of my younger siblings' marriages. I was not the only immediate family member waiting outside in either case, all of us church members. I did not feel resentful or anything, as I knew the deal, but I definitely understand how family who are not members may be upset.

[twoods]

I appreciate the insight. Thank you! I do like how the community came together and helped Jeb’s wife out with the birthday party, and it seems like since they are a close knit group they can count on each other.

I do appreciate the history lesson into the LDS and how Joseph Smith and Brigham started Mormonism. It’s fascinating.

Edited May 7, 2022 by twoods

[pasdetrois]

The temple in Maryland (it looms over the Beltway) was open for public tours when it was first completed, and it has recently advertised that it's open again for tours for a limited time (and I presume a limited number of rooms).

In the 70s and 80s a 5th generation LDS woman, Sonia Johnson, very publicly criticized the church loudly and often as she supported the ERA. I met her and listened to some very disturbing tales, which was one of my first "insider" exposures to the church's teachings.

But then, other religions have their own heinous practices.

Episode 3 really drew me in. Storytelling tension, fantastic acting, a good attempt to weave together history affecting the present. The conversation between the detective and his bishop was very well done. I'm eagerly awaiting the next episode.

The scene where the detective's wife protested the postponed baptism, then switched to seducing her husband, was unsettling. I couldn't figure out if the writers were attempting to show deep love, or the wife's understanding that she had to make hubby happy after arguing with him.

Edited May 7, 2022 by pasdetrois

[Avaleigh]

2 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

The scene where the detective's wife protested the postponed baptism, then switched to seducing her husband, was unsettling. I couldn't figure out if the writers were attempting to show deep love, or the wife's understanding that she had to make hubby happy after arguing with him.

I'm not 100% sure how to interpret where the wife was coming from in this scene. 

The husband though was putting his foot down when he reminded her of something she would already be well aware of--that he's the family’s priesthood holder and as such what he says goes. Sure, she gets to weigh in but he's the ultimate decision maker. It shows how there's a power imbalance in the marriage and since women aren't allowed to be priesthood holders, this imbalance of power will always exist in their marriage.

Interestingly, Black men were not allowed to become priesthood holders in the LDS church until 1978. Another fact about the history of the church that is extremely disturbing. When Sam Lafferty makes the comment about Bill's skin (the Gil Birmingham character) and how he's a descendant of the "Lamanites" there's definitely some racism at play in that scene. He goes on to use the phrase "a white and delightsome [people]" in a very deliberate way as opposed to the more modern "pure and delightsome". To me the racist undertones in that scene were very apparent. This show isn't pulling any punches when it comes to LDS history and theology. 

 

[izabella]

17 hours ago, redpencil said:

I am not watching this show but have been reading this thread out of curiosity, as I am an active LDS church member. Local lay leaders do not get paid and do it on a volunteer basis on top of whatever their actual job is (my father has been both a bishop and a counselor the next level up from the individual congregation, and it was many hours of work a week while also working full time as an accountant). The leader you met must have just had a high paying job. Tithing is very carefully handled and accounted for, and I think it would be very difficult for someone to be taking a cut, even if some rogue leader wanted to (and most people pay it online these days anyway). Most active members have some sort of assignment, all on a volunteer basis, whether it's a leader, or teaching a primary class, or any number of other things. Most of my adult life I had music assignments (as I play the piano and the organ) but currently I am on the activities committee for the women's organization within my congregation (not my favorite thing, but a change of pace for me). Nobody gets paid, but we do have a budget and get reimbursed for supplies or whatever.

So the executives take all the tithing money, make men volunteer for all the church jobs while holding down another full time job, and keep all the tithing for the executives to do with whatever they want,, tax free?  Sounds like corporate oligarchs, not an institution devoted to Jesus.  But I say that about all religions, so LDS is no different.

[Amethyst]

2 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I'm not 100% sure how to interpret where the wife was coming from in this scene. 

The husband though was putting his foot down when he reminded her of something she would already be well aware of--that he's the family’s priesthood holder and as such what he says goes. Sure, she gets to weigh in but he's the ultimate decision maker. It shows how there's a power imbalance in the marriage and since women aren't allowed to be priesthood holders, this imbalance of power will always exist in their marriage.

I thought the same thing.  The way she just said OK and went along with the sex was kind of jarring.  I understand why Jeb wants to postpone the ceremony, but I also understand why Becca didn't want to and how important it was.  It was a weird way to demonstrate Jeb's balance of power in the household.

I think the third episode was the best yet.  Jeb's encounter with the bishop was unnerving.  Guy went from jolly to sinister in a minute.  

Interesting how they devote each episode to a new Lafferty brother.  Sam is as screwed up as his brothers, but it was hilarious when he forgot the booming voice and asked Jeb if Brenda really had sex with one of the other guys.  It was like he dropped character and realized how stupid he sounded.

I feel so bad for Brenda, because I know what's coming.  Wish she would just run as far as she could from that family.

[redpencil]

2 hours ago, izabella said:

So the executives take all the tithing money, make men volunteer for all the church jobs while holding down another full time job, and keep all the tithing for the executives to do with whatever they want,, tax free?  Sounds like corporate oligarchs, not an institution devoted to Jesus.  But I say that about all religions, so LDS is no different.

I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind, and this isn't really the best forum for a debate anyway (and I understand skepticism of religion in general). But briefly I'll just say that tithing is used for running the church (things like building maintenance, landscaping, supplies, etc.), supporting local members who need financial assistance, subsidizing church-owned educational institutions (tuition at BYU, for example, is dirt cheap compared to other similar private universities, even for non-members), humanitarian aid, etc. And most local volunteer assignments really don't take that much time, other than for a handful of people in a congregation, and they purposefully make changes every few years so nobody has to do the more demanding jobs for too many years at a time.

 

7 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

The temple in Maryland (it looms over the Beltway) was open for public tours when it was first completed, and it has recently advertised that it's open again for tours for a limited time (and I presume a limited number of rooms).

Yes, that's the Washington, D.C. temple (though it's in Maryland). It was closed for a couple years for renovations, and when a temple is closed for major renovations like that, it's essentially de-commissioned (not sure the right word) and is re-dedicated when finished. That allows it to open to the public for open houses before the dedication, similar to brand new temples. A few years back the Oakland temple was renovated and I went to that open house. Typically the tour will show all the main rooms that regular members will use, including the baptistry, a sealing room (for marriages), the main chapel area (not sure what it's called myself), and the Celestial room (where people sit for reflection, etc.--no actual ordinances take place there).

[Kiss my mutt]

This has been very interesting as the only thing I know about this religion is from the musical The Book of Mormon which I enjoyed. Lol

I didn’t understand the issue with paying taxes as Jesus said “Therefore render unto Caesar…”

Props to Garfield, he is knocking this role out of the park. The actress playing Brenda is as cute as a button.  It’s dreadful watching the scenes leading up to her murder though.

I’m curious as to what sanctions one would receive if they revealed the inner workings of the temple. I’d like to assume their throats aren’t slit and it’s symbolic of being excommunicated.  

[poeticlicensed]

This thread and the scenes inside the temple got me curious so I googled around and there's a lot of video online that was taken with hidden cameras. Im not a fan of recording things in secret but damn some of it was weird. 

[Inquisitionist]

I've only watched the first episode so far and will continue but why are so many scenes filmed in darkness?  I've watched enough Law & Order episodes to know there are light bulbs in interrogation rooms.  🙄

[Andyourlittledog2]

28 minutes ago, Inquisitionist said:

I've only watched the first episode so far and will continue but why are so many scenes filmed in darkness?  I've watched enough Law & Order episodes to know there are light bulbs in interrogation rooms.  🙄

That's odd. I don't remember anything inside being particularly dark. The interrogation rooms seemed normal light to me.

[Pi237]

I’m enjoying this so far, but with the acceptance that, in real life, people wouldn’t use 2,000 words to say things that can be summed up in a few sentences, especially when their wife and child were just murdered. There’s so many scenes set up like cliffhangers, that end up just moving along like the buildup was a misfire. I also find Garfield awkward with his dramatic pauses and open mouthed blank stares. But at least he’s not chewing the scenery off the walls like the rest of the cast. Still, I’m in to follow this through. 

[Inquisitionist]

15 hours ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

That's odd. I don't remember anything inside being particularly dark. The interrogation rooms seemed normal light to me.

I found it odd that the officers didn't turn on lights at the house where the murder victims were found. The interrogation room scenes looks a little better on my phone than they did on my TV, but still on the dark side.  

[Andyourlittledog2]

4 hours ago, Inquisitionist said:

The interrogation room scenes looks a little better on my phone than they did on my TV, but still on the dark side.  

I don't know if they turn on lights in real life but they never do on TV or movies. I assume directors think it makes things look more dramatic. Once they are actually processing the crime scene there are all kinds of lights (in real life and on TV) but the TV walk through I've never once seen it happen.

[SunnyBeBe]

I’ve been watching the series Cardinal and it is very dark. The night scenes are almost impossible to see. 

[Kiss my mutt]

I've noticed this in a lot of shows lately. I turn the brightness up to max and it’s still dark. 
I’m only on the second season since I just recently discovered it. It’s pretty dark thematically in places, almost like the season two of True Detective. It’s definitely keeping my interest but I’ve had to take a break here and there psychically because some of the scenes are heavy.  
 

[SunnyBeBe]

For those who might like another series about murder within religious community….check out Candy.  There’s a thread here for it.  Another true story.  

[Quickbeam]

Wow, I think this show is amazingly good. I read the book years ago so I knew a lot of the backstory. Also, my husband’s DNA test revealed his father was not the man who raised him but a guy from a storied LDS family. His great great grandfather was evangelized in 1850 and emigrated with his wife from Norway to follow Brigham Young in founding the new Jerusalem. I’m a pagan but I have to hand it to the LDS church, they fell over themselves helping me with research.

On the show, I think Garfield is astonishingly gifted in portraying the character. I really don’t know his work but he’s selling it well. I know Wyatt Russell from Lodge 49 and there’s a lot of talent in the cast. 
 

I appreciate the Mormon history flashbacks because it’s a very peculiar faith origin story. 

[twoods]

Now Diane is going to be dead too, isn’t she? That church president guy was so freaking creepy- poor Pyre, having to manage those guys and try to find the killer brothers who were obsessed with not paying taxes and polygamy. 

[larapu2000]

11 hours ago, Quickbeam said:

Wow, I think this show is amazingly good. I read the book years ago so I knew a lot of the backstory. Also, my husband’s DNA test revealed his father was not the man who raised him but a guy from a storied LDS family. His great great grandfather was evangelized in 1850 and emigrated with his wife from Norway to follow Brigham Young in founding the new Jerusalem. I’m a pagan but I have to hand it to the LDS church, they fell over themselves helping me with research.

On the show, I think Garfield is astonishingly gifted in portraying the character. I really don’t know his work but he’s selling it well. I know Wyatt Russell from Lodge 49 and there’s a lot of talent in the cast. 
 

I appreciate the Mormon history flashbacks because it’s a very peculiar faith origin story. 

The Mormons have an incredible genealogy research department!  You can visit it in SLC, I believe.

My husband is enjoying this show with me, when it's not normally his jam due to the superhero casting with Garfield and Russell (Russell was Captain America in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier), and Sam Worthington with his action movie cred, and old man Lafferty I guess was in Peacemaker.   

[pasdetrois]

15 hours ago, Quickbeam said:

His great great grandfather was evangelized in 1850 and emigrated with his wife from Norway to follow Brigham Young in founding the new Jerusalem.

This exact same thing happened in my family. My grandmother told me the story (only one part of the family followed Young, and the two groups never spoke to each other again), and now Ancestry shows links between me and people in Montana.

[Straycat80]

On 5/9/2022 at 8:39 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

For those who might like another series about murder within religious community….check out Candy.  There’s a thread here for it.  Another true story.  

Yes to checking out Candy, I’ve been watching it and it’s riveting.

Poor Jeb, he’s really getting  crap from the Mormon higher ups for just doing his job. Even the head of the police dept. seems to fear pissing off the high ranking Mormon guy who came to the police station and tried to get Jeb to release the brothers into his custody. 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Straycat80

[Andyourlittledog2]

I think the scariest person in this whole thing was that older woman (wife of the bishop perhaps?) who met Jeb and family at the church door. That creepy fake smile while she told him to get in line and also to baptize his daughters asap was something that would make me nod and smile and never come back to that church again.  But from what I've heard if you are LDS in an LDS town like that they are all up in your business and total conformity is expected or else.

There really is no difference between those folks and the Laffertys, they are just as controlling and impassioned. It's just what they view as the practice of the religion that differs, not the intensity or the willingness to strong arm the faithful into submission.

I'm not saying this attitude is inevitable, I'm saying that this is what I see in this town with these people portrayed here. And I think that is what Jeb is seeing too. What seemed like benign care and togetherness has suddenly turned overwhelming and threatening.

[pasdetrois]

I always say it's the human beings that ruin religion.

I was a bit lost during this latest episode. Too many brothers and their wives.

I'm put off by Wyatt Russell's high voice.

 

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by pasdetrois