S21.E07: Legacy (2022)

[Door County Cherry]

Quote

Bernard and Cosgrove are confronted with a plethora of suspects in the shooting of a headmaster at an elite private school. A teenager’s life hangs in the balance as Price and Maroun debate who’s more culpable – the shooter or the enabler.

April 28th

[CrystalBlue]

Is Hudson University an elite private school?

[WendyCR72]

So now, we recycle the episode titles! (There was already a Mothership episode, "Legacy", S7, Episode 10, way back when in 1997. And franchise wise, Criminal Intent also used the title, also ironically, in its seventh season too! Unsure about SVU, but I wouldn't doubt it!)

I hope this one is an improvement like "Wicked Game" seemed to be tonght!

[Xeliou66]

3 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

So now, we recycle the episode titles! (There was already a Mothership episode, "Legacy", S7, Episode 10, way back when in 1997. And franchise wise, Criminal Intent also used the title, also ironically, in its seventh season too! Unsure about SVU, but I wouldn't doubt it!)

I hope this one is an improvement like "Wicked Game" seemed to be tonght!

Yep, SVU used Legacy as a title for a season 2 episode, and CI’s episode Legacy involved a murder at an elite private school as well. Very interesting how they’ve reused episode titles and I hope that the Mothership continues to improve as well as it goes on, tonight’s Wicked Game was the best episode yet by far.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Xeliou66

[peacheslatour]

On 4/14/2022 at 7:46 PM, CrystalBlue said:

Is Hudson University an elite private school?

Hudson University - Drink!

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Hudson University - Drink!

In that case, better post the phone number to the nearest Poison Control Center, because alcohol poisoning is in the offing...

[Prairie Rose]

On 4/15/2022 at 12:26 AM, WendyCR72 said:

So now, we recycle the episode titles! (There was already a Mothership episode, "Legacy", S7, Episode 10, way back when in 1997. 

Not just that - the next episode, set to air May 5th, is entitled "Severance". The first episode by that title aired way back in Season 2 in January 1992 - and is probably best known for Ben wearing a sling because he (and Michael Moriarty IRL) had broken his wrist playing tennis.

[dttruman]

How many times have they used an elite private school, where an administrator, teacher, coach, or counselor is murdered? I don't want to call it redundant, but I hope they put a very different spin on it than what I am expecting.

[scarynikki12]

Dylan the freshman's disdain for the school's production of Dear Evan Hansen was so funny and Frank agreed. 

Go Cooper's Mom! Yes you always have a lawyer when talking to the cops.

I recognized Bennett's mom so I was waiting for her to be the mastermind so her merely testifying against her husband was a surprise.

[Spartan Girl]

The mom can take several seats when she told them to go to hell. I’m sure the family of the murdered man would l8ke to tell them the exact same thing.

[SunnyBeBe]

27 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Dylan the freshman's disdain for the school's production of Dear Evan Hansen was so funny and Frank agreed. 

Go Cooper's Mom! Yes you always have a lawyer when talking to the cops.

I recognized Bennett's mom so I was waiting for her to be the mastermind so her merely testifying against her husband was a surprise.

I thought she looked familiar.  Who was it?

[scarynikki12]

15 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I thought she looked familiar.  Who was it?

No idea what her name is but she played Sandy's lawyer friend who wanted to have an affair from season 1 of The OC if that helps.

[Prairie Rose]

I think they are starting to find their groove, slowly but surely. I found Jeffrey Donovan's Cosgrove wooden and one-note at the outset, but he's improved quite a bit since then. He had a moment in this episode when he was petting Mrs. Wayland's dog. I thought that was a nice, subtle moment.

The cast on the whole is also a bit better at acting TO each other and not AT each other. They've come a long way since the premiere and it can only get better from here. 

[Broderbits]

6 minutes ago, Prairie Rose said:

He had a moment in this episode when he was petting Mrs. Wayland's dog. I thought that was a nice, subtle moment.

The Mothership has had a lot of these dog-petting moments. I remember Lenny Briscoe doing it, Ed Green and Cyrus Lupo too. It's as sure as at least one mention of New Paltz per season.

[shapeshifter]

4 minutes ago, Prairie Rose said:

I think they are starting to find their groove, slowly but surely. I found Jeffrey Donovan's Cosgrove wooden and one-note at the outset, but he's improved quite a bit since then. He had a moment in this episode when he was petting Mrs. Wayland's dog. I thought that was a nice, subtle moment.

The cast on the whole is also a bit better at acting TO each other and not AT each other. They've come a long way since the premiere and it can only get better from here. 

Technically Cosgrove is 2-note (his whistle) heh. 😉

[edhopper]

Mom was Bonnie Sommerville. Was in NYPD Blue, among other shows.

Edited April 29, 2022 by edhopper

[Prairie Rose]

Another Easter egg at the DA's office - Jamie Ross's name is under Jack's on the sign on the wall as "Chief Assistant DA".

[Diana Berry]

48 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Technically Cosgrove is 2-note (his whistle) heh. 😉

And he did it twice.  Maybe it will be his signature move now.

I thought it was going to be a not guilty.

[WendyCR72]

I didn't feel a thing for the mother that had to choose between her hubby or kid. Their toxic parenting created that entire mess. But I also thought this was going to be a "not guilty" verdict. No idea why, I just did.

As nice as it is that the DA's office has won so many so far, I do hope they eventually do lose, because - as much as it sucks - it's real life. And the Mothership never shied away from it before.

[Clawdette]

Next week's preview showed an actress who appeared in three L&O episodes, all which I thought were very good.  She had multiple personalities in Season Five's "Switch," killed her sister/daughter and went ahead with a marriage of convenience in Season 10's "Merger," and was involved with the Shalvoys in Season Nineteen's "The Drowned and the Saved. "  Her name is Francie Swift and you'll definitely recognize her.  She also appeared as an ADA on SVU.

ETA: Actor's name corrected to Francie Swift, as Prevailing Wind correctly pointed out.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Clawdette

[WendyCR72]

1 minute ago, Clawdette said:

Next week's preview showed an actress who appeared in three L&O episodes, all which I thought were very good.  She had multiple personalities in Season Five's "Switch," killed her sister/daughter and went ahead with a marriage of convenience in Season 10's "Merger," and was involved with the Shalvoys in Season Nineteen's "The Drowned and the Saved. "  Her name is Frankie Swift and you'll definitely recognize her.  She also appeared as an ADA on SVU.

She was also in Criminal Intent as creepy Nelda Carson in "Semi-Detached", the 4th season premiere. So she is another franchise favorite.

[Raja]

Did they give Dr. Not Olivet a name? I had to laugh at Detective Bernard lying about talking to the police. ADA Moroun arguing for juvenile court reminded me of Southerlyn just before she was fired by DA Branch.

[WendyCR72]

7 minutes ago, Raja said:

Did they give Dr. Not Olivet a name? I had to laugh at Detective Bernard lying about talking to the police. ADA Moroun arguing for juvenile court reminded me of Southerlyn just before she was fired by DA Branch.

Didn't hear one. I was disappointed not to see Skoda or Olivet, but the actress did do a good job. And, if we're injecting any sort of realism into this, odds are that Skoda and/or Olivet would likely have retired by now, anyway.

I suppose if the franchise wanted to keep continuity, if it had the money, it could have asked Julia Ormond to return as Dr. Paula Gyson (Goren's police shrink in S10 on Criminal Intent), but as I said, she probably wouldn't have come cheap. Or heck, use B.D. Wong's Dr. Huang from SVU.

But I also understand wanting to cultivate "new" maybe-regulars, too, so...

[SunnyBeBe]

1 hour ago, edhopper said:

Mom was Bonnie Sommerville. Was in NYPD Blue, among other shows.

I’m not sure if she is who I thought she was, but….she was in a lot of stuff.  Remember Code Black? Man…..I had forgotten about that show.  I really liked it.  It was very different. 

[Xeliou66]

Middle of the road episode - not great, not bad. A lot of it felt like a knock off of the season 10 episode “Loco Parentis” with the stuff about the macho dad buying his disturbed son weapons and teaching him to fight and the son wound up killing someone. And that episode also ended with the wife/mom turning on douchebag dad. So a lot of it just felt unoriginal, I wish they could’ve come up with something more original. At least the case didn’t become about politics, which is where I was worried they were going early on, the less politics on tv the better IMO, I get enough politics in real life and it’s usually not well written.

I thought the kid was very fortunate to get off without jail time even after refusing to testify, I thought he should’ve done some time. I didn’t feel anything for the mom either, it was her and her husband’s lousy parenting that led to this, I mean the kid stabbed a teacher and the parents didn’t get him help and instead paid $100,000 to cover it up. No sympathy for either of the parents.

I’m liking the Cosgrove/Bernard pairing more and more, they are good together, Cosgrove has been fleshed out nicely after a rocky start, I like how he speaks his mind but isn’t an asshole usually about things, I liked when he reached down and petted the dog as well, nice moment. Bernard and Cosgrove work well together.

Jack got some more screen time tonight which I liked, the more of Jack the better, his scenes are always highlights of the episode.

This was just average IMO - so much of the case just felt unoriginal, so while I liked each character’s role in the episode and I think the cast gels well together, the case itself wasn’t the most compelling because the franchise had already covered similar ground. Not bad, but not the best effort from the show.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Xeliou66

[torqy]

So this one was ripped from headlines about the Michigan (?) school shooter whose parents wound up in Dutch for giving him a gun. Is every epi this season from a recent notorious case? The sound of tearing paper....

[EtheltoTillie]

That entitled rich bastard father should have been arrested for his multiple shoutouts from the middle of the courtroom. A real judge would have read him the riot act.  

[MaryHedwig]

4 hours ago, edhopper said:

Mom was Bonnie Sommerville. Was in NYPD Blue, among other shows.

I'll admit it. I know her from Hallmark movies.

[MaryHedwig]

I wanted a scene at the beginning where Dixon once again kicks butt on the streets of New York. I would loved one of those every week instead of the random small talk of extras before finding the dead body. I've seen enough of those to last a lifetime.

[WendyCR72]

9 minutes ago, MaryHedwig said:

I wanted a scene at the beginning where Dixon once again kicks butt on the streets of New York. I would loved one of those every week instead of the random small talk of extras before finding the dead body. I've seen enough of those to last a lifetime.

To be fair, "random person or people find dead body" has been the formula forever...

[dubbel zout]

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Technically Cosgrove is 2-note (his whistle) heh. 😉

I really want them to stop him from doing that. A white man whistling for a Black man isn't the greatest optic. And, it's not as if Bernard is ever so far away a decent shout wouldn't alert him.

6 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

This was just average IMO - so much of the case just felt unoriginal,

I agree. It didn't feel particularly current, as we've seen similar cases like this before. I still watch, though, because the familiar is comforting and I know what I'm going to get. I agree the team needs to start losing a few cases. 

[Raja]

9 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I really want them to stop him from doing that. A white man whistling for a Black man isn't the greatest optic. And, it's not as if Bernard is ever so far away a decent shout wouldn't alert him.

I agree. It didn't feel particularly current, as we've seen similar cases like this before. I still watch, though, because the familiar is comforting and I know what I'm going to get. I agree the team needs to start losing a few cases. 

This would have been the episode to do it when the killer decided not to testify against his father. Instead we had a spousal privilege work around twist.

[Raja]

8 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Didn't hear one. I was disappointed not to see Skoda or Olivet, but the actress did do a good job. And, if we're injecting any sort of realism into this, odds are that Skoda and/or Olivet would likely have retired by now, anyway.

I suppose if the franchise wanted to keep continuity, if it had the money, it could have asked Julia Ormond to return as Dr. Paula Gyson (Goren's police shrink in S10 on Criminal Intent), but as I said, she probably wouldn't have come cheap. Or heck, use B.D. Wong's Dr. Huang from SVU.

But I also understand wanting to cultivate "new" maybe-regulars, too, so...

I don't think Dr Olivet is that old yet.  Carolyn McCormick still has a year or two to go before most pension schemes will kick in the full benefits package.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Raja

[Prairie Rose]

8 hours ago, Raja said:

ADA Moroun arguing for juvenile court reminded me of Southerlyn just before she was fired by DA Branch.

She is the weak link of all the characters so far, IMO. I think the show has found its niche on the police side, but the legal side needs work. Maroun seems a bit too idealistic to be a prosecutor and Price doesn't seem to have fire in his belly or the craftiness his EADA predecessors had in spades. They need to have more scenes with the cops and prosecutors together, discussing the case of the week over lunch in a diner or even going undercover (remember Lupo and Rubirosa posing as a married couple in that fertility clinic scheme?). 

I definitely miss the arraignment scenes - the busyness, the shuffling of papers and especially the world-weary, NYC-weary, wisecracking arraignment judges. The courtroom scenes now just seem too...polished.

No sympathy from me either from the wife/mom. The kid got off way too easy.

[SunnyBeBe]

9 hours ago, Raja said:

Did they give Dr. Not Olivet a name? I had to laugh at Detective Bernard lying about talking to the police. ADA Moroun arguing for juvenile court reminded me of Southerlyn just before she was fired by DA Branch.

Yeah, it seems that you can anticipate what position she’s going to take before she opens her mouth…..I can’t see that as realistic for a prosecutor.  

[Raja]

25 minutes ago, Prairie Rose said:

She is the weak link of all the characters so far, IMO. I think the show has found its niche on the police side, but the legal side needs work. Maroun seems a bit too idealistic to be a prosecutor and Price doesn't seem to have fire in his belly or the craftiness his EADA predecessors had in spades. They need to have more scenes with the cops and prosecutors together, discussing the case of the week over lunch in a diner or even going undercover (remember Lupo and Rubirosa posing as a married couple in that fertility clinic scheme?). 

I definitely miss the arraignment scenes - the busyness, the shuffling of papers and especially the world-weary, NYC-weary, wisecracking arraignment judges. The courtroom scenes now just seem too...polished.

No sympathy from me either from the wife/mom. The kid got off way too easy.

Without the arraignment scenes and Mr Price handling the pretrial motions they have left nothing for Ms. Maroun to do.

[Prevailing Wind]

9 hours ago, Clawdette said:

Next week's preview showed an actress who appeared in three L&O episodes, all which I thought were very good.  She had multiple personalities in Season Five's "Switch," killed her sister/daughter and went ahead with a marriage of convenience in Season 10's "Merger," and was involved with the Shalvoys in Season Nineteen's "The Drowned and the Saved. "  Her name is Frankie Swift and you'll definitely recognize her.  She also appeared as an ADA on SVU.

Francie. Francie Swift. She was also a member of the repertory on A&E's "A Nero Wolfe Mystery" where she played many different parts. I my mind, she can do no wrong.

[GiandujaPie]

9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Middle of the road episode - not great, not bad. A lot of it felt like a knock off of the season 10 episode “Loco Parentis” with the stuff about the macho dad buying his disturbed son weapons and teaching him to fight and the son wound up killing someone. And that episode also ended with the wife/mom turning on douchebag dad. So a lot of it just felt unoriginal, I wish they could’ve come up with something more original. At least the case didn’t become about politics, which is where I was worried they were going early on, the less politics on tv the better IMO, I get enough politics in real life and it’s usually not well written.

That's exactly the episode I was thinking of! I'm disappointed that McCoy didn't mention it, as he was the one who prosecuted that father. 

I still think this show is working out the nuances of the characters. Cosgrove's comments about CRT, race, saying the N-word, all feel really forced. The writers are just giving him all of the "buzz words" that you hear about from conservative white parents in the suburbs and making him a cliche. Also, was it me or did it seem like there was no focus at all on the victim? 

[Raja]

27 minutes ago, GiandujaPie said:

That's exactly the episode I was thinking of! I'm disappointed that McCoy didn't mention it, as he was the one who prosecuted that father. 

I still think this show is working out the nuances of the characters. Cosgrove's comments about CRT, race, saying the N-word, all feel really forced. The writers are just giving him all of the "buzz words" that you hear about from conservative white parents in the suburbs and making him a cliche. Also, was it me or did it seem like there was no focus at all on the victim? 

With 20 something murder trials per year you have to wonder if there is anything a Law & Order DA  would find as a new and unique situation

[milkyaqua]

I thought this would result in at least a hung jury.  Also didn't feel any sympathy for the wife of the convicted.  She's got an emotionally stunted, prone to violence son to deal with and she better make that a priority seeing as she's also responsible for his behavior.

[shapeshifter]

37 minutes ago, milkyaqua said:

I thought this would result in at least a hung jury. 

I wasn't sure what the jury would do. 
I wonder if the writers had firmly decided from the beginning that the father would be convicted, or if they were open to other outcomes.

[Clawdette]

I believe the character was Elizabeth Olivet.  But I'm not 100% sure.  And, Emil Skoda (I thought at first that name didn't exactly suit J.K. Simmons but I grew to love it).

Edited April 29, 2022 by Clawdette

[WendyCR72]

1 minute ago, Clawdette said:

I believe the character was Elizabeth Olivet.  But I'm not 100% sure.

It wasn't. A different actress was the shrink.

[Clawdette]

No, not the one last night.  There was some speculation on what Olivet's first name was.

[WendyCR72]

19 minutes ago, Clawdette said:

I believe the character was Elizabeth Olivet.  But I'm not 100% sure.  And, Emil Skoda (I thought at first that name didn't exactly suit J.K. Simmons but I grew to love it).

Oh! Then, in that case, you're right. Her name was Elizabeth Olivet. And Rodgers' name was also Elizabeth, too. That's one thing the franchise did that was true to life: It had a lot of characters with the same name across the franchise (i.e. Elizabeth, Serena, Alexandra).

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Cosgrove's comments about CRT, race, saying the N-word, all feel really forced.

ICAM. When Bernard told him there was no good reason for a White person to say the N-word, ever, my immediate reaction was "So, does that mean there's a bad reason? Or a mediocre reason?" It just struck me as an odd qualification of "reason" in the interest of making a point that didn't need to be made, especially in such a heavy-handed way. And then the episode didn't turn out to be about any of that, except as a feint when they were looking for potential suspects.

It's hard for me to believe Dick Wolf wrote this episode.

[Xeliou66]

4 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

ICAM. When Bernard told him there was no good reason for a White person to say the N-word, ever, my immediate reaction was "So, does that mean there's a bad reason? Or a mediocre reason?" It just struck me as an odd qualification of "reason" in the interest of making a point that didn't need to be made, especially in such a heavy-handed way. And then the episode didn't turn out to be about any of that, except as a feint when they were looking for potential suspects.

It's hard for me to believe Dick Wolf wrote this episode.

Dick Wolf didn’t write the episode, he doesn’t write most of the episodes, someone named Pamela Wechsler wrote this episode. And yeah the political stuff felt clunky and like it was just thrown in to cash in on all the controversy surrounding what is taught in classrooms, I’m glad the case wound up having nothing to do with politics as I get enough politics in real life and the political stuff is usually not written well, and this episode was no exception, the dialogue was cliched.

[WendyCR72]

10 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

It's hard for me to believe Dick Wolf wrote this episode.

The only time Dick Wolf actually writes episodes - that I have seen - are for the show's pilots. Otherwise, he is the Executive Producer only.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Dick Wolf didn’t write the episode, he doesn’t write most of the episodes, someone named Pamela Wechsler wrote this episode.

IMDb lists as writers for this episode: Dick Wolf, Rick Eid, Pamela J. Wechsler. Is that a mistake or does Wolf just get listed automatically because of the intro ("In the criminal justice system...") which gets used for every episode?

Edited April 30, 2022 by Joimiaroxeu

[Xeliou66]

3 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

IMDb lists as writers for this episode: Dick Wolf, Rick Eid, Pamela J. Wechsler. Is that a mistake or does Wolf just get listed automatically because of the intro ("In the criminal justice system...") which gets used for every episode?

I think Wolf gets listed for every episode because he’s the show’s creator, and Eid gets credit because he’s showrunner/executive producer.