S02.E02: Penance

[formerlyfreedom]

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Picard finds himself transported to an alternate timeline in the year 2400 where his longtime nemesis, Q, has orchestrated one final "trial." Picard searches for his trusted crew as he attempts to find the cause of this dystopian future.

Dropping Thursday, March 10, 2022.

[millennium]

Fun from start to finish.  The first ten minutes with Q were great, as good as anything done in TNG.  Loved Q's meta-snark: "How 'Yesterday's Enterprise' of you ..."  (which made me wonder if Q is actually from our universe, where Picard and the rest are just characters on a TV show).  It was a bit shocking when he struck Picard and gave him a nosebleed.  Of course that called to mind Q's original warning to Picard in TNG:

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If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross.

Borg Queen was better than expected.  The episode also had the right amount of humor (loved Jurati's virtual cat).   The only place it felt a bit shabby was at the rally where there were too few people present for a such an important ceremony as the Eradication Day execution of the Borg Queen.    The meager crowd smacked of a cheap TV production.  But overall, four stars out of five.   Discovery has been on the air, what, four years? and has never had an episode even half as good as this one, IMO.

(P.S. Gul Ducat had it coming, if you ask me.).

Edited March 10, 2022 by millennium

[cambridgeguy]

Looks the like the writers skimmed the DS9 wiki page before they wrote this episode.  Getting killed by Picard is probably preferable to being trapped in a Fire Cave forever, so Dukat got off easier in this reality.  Kind of a Starship Troopers/Star Trek mashup. 

[paigow]

Rios: Hey! Everybody made it.

Picard: Keep the ship here for a while. No reason for an immediate warp jump.

[Zonk]

This was fine. Which is far more than I can say about season 1, so yay, big improvement.

Q might be in a bit of trouble with continuum for saving Picard, no matter how he tried to package it as a lesson or penance. Though now that I think about it, that would make too much sense. There has to be a dumber reason why he behaves strangely. Any ideas?

I think a lot of this was a bit far fetched with Annika being the president. As this type of president *cough* dictator *cough* you can do pretty much anything and people won't try to overthrow you. You can even invade another country without provocation. If she had just said: "the celebrations are postponed and we are taking the Borg queen on a trip", nobody would have dared to oppose her. Worst case she might have had to shoot her pesky husband in the head. Once they change the timeline back he'll be alive again anyway, or wiped from history, depending how you look at it.

[greekmom]

4 hours ago, Zonk said:

Worst case she might have had to shoot her pesky husband in the head.

One can hope so. At least pesky husband wasn't Chakotay thank god! I am still peeved I didn't even get a throw away line "Chakotay died on a mission for the Fenris Rangers." 

Hate watching and hoping they don't ruin Q.

Super shocked at Agnes' story to the pesky husband. I actually chuckled. Well played Agnes. I still don't like you.

The "Borg Queen" still disappoints.  Doesn't live up to the previous Queens.

[paigow]

Agnes still sounds like a Whedonite...

[MissLucas]

The whole set-up was a bit wonky. It looked as if Elnor had only seconds before he got into trouble, yet by that time Rafi had already figured out that she was head of security and that she better had  go looking for Elnor. The timelines for Seven and Picard worked better.

Things I loved:

• Evil people drink coffee instead of Earl Grey.
• Seven running DIY self diagnostics in front of her vanity.
• Rafi's coat of awesome - ditto her hair. 
• Sharp evil uniforms (s. Evil Fashion Sense on TV tropes)
• Agnes' little digital pet (I'd like one too).
• Agnes' horrible improvising.
• Elnor showing off.

Not so much love for some of the really heavy-handed writing and set pieces to hammer home how horrible everything and everyone was. Even evil Picard would have better taste in home decor. And evil Seven better taste in mates (loved Rafi's snark about commitment though).

All in all it was fun but I wish they had already managed to time-jump. We all know that's where this is headed to 🤷‍♂️

I wonder how they will fit in Soji. Could she be the Watcher they were asked to look for in 2024? 

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by MissLucas

[marinw]

We finally got our Mirror Picard! I know this was a mashup of the Mirror Universe and a bunch of Time Travel episodes, but I loved it.

I’m biased, but I am really enjoying Annie W as the Queen. Seems weird that she is using the Earth Calendar instead of the Stardate or whatever the Borg Calendar is.

I am also liking the upside-down of the Earth being bad and the Borg being...good? Not as bad? 

Edited March 11, 2022 by marinw

[paigow]

1 hour ago, marinw said:

We finally got our Mirror Picard!

[starri]

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

• Agnes' little digital pet (I'd like one too).

Me: "That's Patton Oswalt, right?"

Husband:  "That's definitely Patton Oswalt."

That single episode had more love for DS9 than it's gotten in total since it went off the air.

[Delphi]

Not as good as Susanna or Alice,  but the queen did a good job.   Guess Janeway really effectively got rid of the other one. 

Also sevens outrage at being a full human is so hilarious. 

[salaydouk]

8 hours ago, Zonk said:

This was fine. Which is far more than I can say about season 1, so yay, big improvement.

Q might be in a bit of trouble with continuum for saving Picard, no matter how he tried to package it as a lesson or penance. Though now that I think about it, that would make too much sense. There has to be a dumber reason why he behaves strangely. Any ideas?

I think a lot of this was a bit far fetched with Annika being the president. As this type of president *cough* dictator *cough* you can do pretty much anything and people won't try to overthrow you. You can even invade another country without provocation. If she had just said: "the celebrations are postponed and we are taking the Borg queen on a trip", nobody would have dared to oppose her. Worst case she might have had to shoot her pesky husband in the head. Once they change the timeline back he'll be alive again anyway, or wiped from history, depending how you look at it.

Because I don't want to get into trouble, going spoiler cover my guess. 

Spoiler

It will probably boil down to the Borg ship from the rift is from a different universe and  was inavertantly shown by Q in his "illness" to a way to access the "prime universe". And that he will be in trouble with the continuum for release of the information. And with his illness/Borg temporal/spacetime knowledge can't repair it to make the Borg forget about the "prime universe."  So the only way to fix is to change history so that the rift never occurs or allow Picard to fix the change in history and hope he is able to force the rift to close so that the different universe Borg think there is "nothing" in the "prime universe."

And I am hoping, though I do not condone domestic violence or violence in general, Seven just wipes the floor with her "husband."  The choice they made for the actor for the role of husband for "Annika" in the altered timeline to me says something about the personality of the "Alt-Annika."  That she must have been really twisted to be attacted to what would, on the surface at least, be a "step down"- he must be really really twisted to satisfy whatever blood thirst she had to kill non-humans. 

Edited March 11, 2022 by salaydouk

[The Kings Foot]

19 minutes ago, salaydouk said:

 

And I am hoping, though I do not condone domestic violence or violence in general, Seven just wipes the floor with her "husband."  The choice they made for the actor for the role of husband for "Annika" in the altered timeline to me says something about the personality of the "Alt-Annika."  That she must have been really twisted to be attacted to what would, on the surface at least, be a "step down"- he must be really really twisted to satisfy whatever blood thirst she had to kill non-humans. 

 

3 hours ago, MissLucas said:

 

Not so much love for some of the really heavy-handed writing and set pieces to hammer home how horrible everything and everyone was. Even evil Picard would have better taste in home decor. And evil Seven better taste in mates (loved Rafi's snark about commitment though).

 

 

 

 

You guys really think evil dictator Annika is going to have an alpha male husband who's likely to get jealous he's not in charge ?

Having a competent, loyal  but subordinate spouse fits perfectly with what this alternate Annika wouldve needed to become President. 

 

[salaydouk]

19 minutes ago, The Kings Foot said:

You guys really think evil dictator Annika is going to have an alpha male husband who's likely to get jealous he's not in charge ?

Having a competent, loyal  but subordinate spouse fits perfectly with what this alternate Annika wouldve needed to become President. 

 

I see your point.  And sort of matches with Alt-Annika's husband's behaviour at the end of the episode when it appeared that he was absolutely salivating at the idea of taking over because he could make his wife out to be a traitor. That he wormed his way into power though/using her and finally got the opening he needed to grab power for himself and siezed it. 

That said.. what does it say about the human race that in four hundred years that it is expected that "alpha male" still could not stand to take a backseat to an "alpha female" in terms of job/status?  Just said.... that sad in many TOS/TNG/DS9/and even last week's Picard there were always episodes laced with the undercurrent of racism, so perhaps we are doomed. 

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by salaydouk

[CarpeFelis]

2 hours ago, starri said:

Me: "That's Patton Oswalt, right?"

Husband:  "That's definitely Patton Oswalt."

That single episode had more love for DS9 than it's gotten in total since it went off the air.

Sure sounded like him to me! If my cats had digital representations who could talk, they’d be major wiseasses, so Patton Oswalt was a great choice.

[Cthulhudrew]

I think I am in a different boat than most so far. I really like John De Lancie and Q, and enjoyed the heck out of S1, but I don't know if I can take an entire season of Picard: Back to the Future (or is it Star Trek: Flashpoint?).

The one-off time travel shenanigans of the tv shows and movies were fine (mostly) but an entire season built around a premise where we know the ending (they'll restore things to normal and get back home, albeit with personal lessons learned) seems a little anticlimactic and lacking any real stakes to me.

[thuganomics85]

They definitely went all out with the callbacks and references here!  Evil Picard's victims include Gul Dukat (granted, he kind of had that coming) and Sarek.  Sisko getting name dropped as a high ranking officer in the Confederation.  I wonder if we'll get more mentions later on.  The possibilities are endless!

At first I thought they were going down the Mirror Universe route, but it looks like instead that Q went and changed something back in 2024, and it has lead to the human species being some kind of totalitarian organization that basically is trying to destroy all of the other alien species out there.  Picard is a war criminal that is known for his brutality (and gasp!  Drinks Columbian Roast!  Nooo!!)  Seven goes by her given name (Annika) and is the actual President, which is kind of impressive if one looks past the whole "being evil, anti-alien bigots" thing.  Agnes is some kind of sinister doctor and both Raffi and Rios also serve big roles in the Confederation.  That just leaves poor Elnor as the lone rebel.  At least they are all together again!  I wonder if Soji isn't here because whatever happened will cause her to not even exist.

We've got another Borg Queen in the form of Anne Wersching, I see!  Susanna Thompson and especially Alice Krige will be hard acts to follow, but I do love me some Wersching, so I'm looking forward to seeing more of her take going forward.

I so hope they find a way to keep Agnes' little digital pet around.  Patton Oswalt sure knows how to get into almost every major genre franchise out there.  And somehow crack me up by simply saying "Meow."

Thought Jeri Ryan did some great work here in particular.

Something definitely is going to come out of Q being more maniacal this time around.  I wonder if he's dying too?  That would actually be kind of a scary thought that even he is can't fight off mortality.

Well, that's one hell of way to end the episode!  While I enjoyed the first season despite it's flaws, I'm already finding myself way more intrigued this go around.  I already want it to be next week!

[cambridgeguy]

5 hours ago, salaydouk said:

That said.. what does it say about the human race that in four hundred years that it is expected that "alpha male" still could not stand to take a backseat to an "alpha female" in terms of job/status?

I know, right?  I mean, the Confederacy being filled with a bunch of xenophobic, violent scumbags is one thing but you'd think they wouldn't also be sexists.  Come on evil empire, follow the Starship Troopers model and work on the gender equality in your fascist society.

[Zaffy]

so... did I like this episode?

Meow! 😺

[Haleth]

Loved all the nods to previous series.  Love Annie Wersching so she works for me as the Borg queen.  Love that the gang is back together again for more hijinks.  Maybe "our" Soji isn't there yet because she wasn't present at the rift?  I'm guessing she'll show up at some point as her alt self.  

If there's one thing that confuses me more than alternate universe stuff it's timey whimey stuff.  Guess I'll go along for the ride and not try to sort out all the techno babble.

[paigow]

8 hours ago, salaydouk said:

And I am hoping, though I do not condone domestic violence or violence in general, Seven just wipes the floor with her "husband." 

Maybe there will be a Planet Of The Apes [Wahlberg] twist... Dickhead husband time travels with the crew, escapes into L.A. and becomes POTUS after Picard fixes time... 

[starri]

I acknowledge the need to bring the Queen along with them, but I'd be willing to bet that Seven could have worked out the math on the warp breakaway.  You can take the Fenris Ranger out of the astrometrics lab, but...

The actor playing President Annika's husband is Isa Briones' father.

Eradication Day has gotten SO commercialized.

 

[marinw]

We still haven't seen Dahj/Soji. There are synths in this timeline,and since everybody has a double (a conceot that still breaks my brain) she must be around somewhere.

[starri]

10 minutes ago, marinw said:

We still haven't seen Dahj/Soji. There are synths in this timeline,and since everybody has a double (a conceot that still breaks my brain) she must be around somewhere.

I actually wondered about that.  There was a statue of an Adam Soong (well, a hologram of one) sitting in the middle of San Francisco Bay, with an audio clip of Brent Spiner's voice saying that a strong galaxy is a human galaxy, so things for the Soong-type androids are probably very different, if they exist at all.

[Llywela]

Another strong entry for season two! Loving the show this season - as much as I enjoyed season one, it did have its share of balance and pacing issues, which are not in evidence at all so far this season. It's been a really strong start.

One of the issues season one had was that the intense focus on Picard meant there was little screentime left to develop the rest of the cast, and because it took quite literally the entire season to get the entire cast all together in one place, they weren't really able to gel properly as a group. We got tantalising little flashes of potential that for the most part went begging. So, conversely, one of the strengths this season has is that the cast feels much more integrated. Everyone was introduced last year, the relationships were established, even if it did take a long time to get there, so this season is able to build on those foundations - and is doing a great job. The timeskip also helped with that. Only two episodes in and we're already getting a stronger feel for the various different dynamics among the characters than we did in the whole of last season. Raffi's maternal bond with Elnor. The friendship between Seven and Rios. The stalled romances of Seven/Raffi and Rios/Agnes (both of which were thrashed out in a bit more detail here). And Picard himself as the glue between them all, the reason most of them even met in the first place. It's all good stuff.

TNG never did a Mirror 'Verse episode - well, this isn't the Mirror 'Verse, but is probably the closest Picard is ever going to get, so I hope Stewart enjoyed it!

[RobertDeSneero]

Did it look like the Borg Queen had a cat-who-ate-the-canary smirk on her face like this was all going according to plan?

[paulvdb]

52 minutes ago, Llywela said:

TNG never did a Mirror 'Verse episode - well, this isn't the Mirror 'Verse, but is probably the closest Picard is ever going to get, so I hope Stewart enjoyed it!

Neither did Voyager as far as I remember, so that also goes for Seven/Annika.

[jcin617]

6 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

I know, right?  I mean, the Confederacy being filled with a bunch of xenophobic, violent scumbags is one thing but you'd think they wouldn't also be sexists.  Come on evil empire, follow the Starship Troopers model and work on the gender equality in your fascist society.

Well...he can believe in gender equality and still be gunning for her position wherever he sees an opportunity!

Also, still trying to decide what kind of accent Elnor has, at times I think I hear Evan's Australian accent, other times it sounds more neutral or vaguely accented. 

Presumably Evil Picard or Evil Janeway could have met Q in this timeline, maybe the Confederation found a way to attack the Continuum?

Edited March 11, 2022 by jcin617

[Zonk]

What I thought was kinda dumb is that they insist on keeping Picard a robot. First of all how does the confederation have that technology? Also why would Picard still be this old man? Are you telling me that the confederation or genocide-Picard weighed the ethical implications and decided that it wouldn't be nice to give himself eternal youth? For that matter, I doubt the random death-algorythm they put in him in the prime timeline is still there, since why would a confederation Admiral put that in? Makes no sense. They just should have made him human and scrapped that dumb robot plot from last season.

[marinw]

On 3/10/2022 at 7:15 AM, millennium said:

The meager crowd smacked of a cheap TV production. 

There may have been some COVID protocols going on during filiming. They could have CGI'd some people in. Or maybe Eridication Day is so esteemed that you can only watch live by invitation, the execution is probably braodcast everywhere.

I wonder if Sarak would have been be Evil Sarak, or if some people are still "Good" in all timelines. That's the annoying thing about these Mirror-ish storylines, nobody (with a few real-world exceptions which I won't mention here) is pure good or pure evil.

The Picard of Yesterday's Enterprise was hardened by war, but could still see the value of risking evrything for Peace. Goatee Spock was brutal, but even he could see the illogic of rulng by violence and force. So it's a bit of a stretch that the Picard of this timeline is completly without nuance.

Edited March 11, 2022 by marinw

[starri]

25 minutes ago, marinw said:

I wonder if Sarak would have been be Evil Sarak, or if somew people are still "Good" in all timelines. That's the annoying thing about these Mirror-ish storylines, nobody (with a few real-world exceptions which I won't mention here) is pure good or pure evil.

MirrorSarek seemed like a decent guy on Disco.  Although I don't understand how General Picard could have executed him in front of his son.  Q made it seem like it was a child.  Even in the unlikely event that Spock could exist in this world (wouldn't it more likely have been Sybok?), either would have been well over 150 by the time Picard could have crossed paths with them.

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, paulvdb said:

Neither did Voyager as far as I remember, so that also goes for Seven/Annika.

Yeah, I think the closest they came was that episode where the alien society had a museum dedicated to a long ago battle with the "Warship Voyager." Essentially, they told a holographic history of a long ago battle they had involving Voyager that made the crew seem evil and warlike with a black glove fetish, until a hologram of the doctor rematerializes to let them know that they have it wrong. 

[MissLucas]

Just to clarify - I did not mean to say President Hanssen needed an alpha male at her side just a better looking specimen *shallow*

[Chyromaniac]

I would have gone with Gul Madred and Gowron and/or Worf as featured elements of Picard’s skull collection.  The real Picard at least had personal history with them - Dukat and Martok felt a little too fan service-y.  Sarek was a solid choice though, and I think the Borg skull had Hugh’s modifications?  If so, good call there too.

Otherwise, congrats to the Picard producers- they’ve created in one episode a more convincing dystopia than Disco had after three seasons of mirror universe shenanigans (tbh, it was creepier than half of DS9’s MU shows too).  I think the difference is in seeing both the militarized Earth, and the bloodlust and xenophobia of normal everyday people.  “Eradication Day” was a nice touch too- it’s just farcical enough to be kind of funny, but since we’ve seen the results, we have to take it seriously.

Beyond that, I liked how our characters responded to the changes.  There must be a Starfleet protocol for how to navigate a totalitarian  reality- JLP, Seven, and Raffi seemed to slip into fascism covers pretty quickly.  Rios and Jurati were a little more disjointed, and poor Elnor must not have taken that class at the academy yet.  I’m really looking forward to seeing where they go with all this.

[Hiyo]

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Well...he can believe in gender equality and still be gunning for her position wherever he sees an opportunity!

Exactly.

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The Picard of Yesterday's Enterprise was hardened by war, but could still see the value of risking evrything for Peace.

Yeah but the Federation in that time line was getting it's ass handed to it by the Klingons and was 6 months away from defeat. Would that Picard have still seen the value for Peace had the Federation been winning?

Edited March 11, 2022 by Hiyo

[salaydouk]

On 3/11/2022 at 9:51 AM, MissLucas said:

Just to clarify - I did not mean to say President Hanssen needed an alpha male at her side just a better looking specimen *shallow*

go ahead be shallow, i thought the same thing when we saw President Hanssen's husband the first time... I mean is it too much to ask that he at least be taller then her ?   😜

On 3/11/2022 at 10:24 AM, Hiyo said:

Exactly.

Yeah but the Federation in that time line was getting it's ass handed to it by the Klingons and was 6 months away from defeat. Would that Picard have still seen the value for Peace had the Federation been winning.

Given my experience with combat veterans, I have found that most would rather have not had the conflict start to begin with.  Aside from the soldiers with mental health issues, most would rather be the person they were the good and the bad instead of being the person they are after under gone their combat experiences.  So I would like to think a battle hardened Picard would always make the choice to send Enterprise C Back. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by salaydouk

[Hiyo]

I doubt most combat veterans have ever had to deal with time traveling or alternate universe issues.

Picard was taking a leap of faith based on a suggestion from Guinan that things were wrong. Them being on the losing side probably him over to taking the risk of sending the Enterpise C back through the time anomaly. Picard had no way of really knowing whether he was "good or bad before having to undergo [his] combat experiences". I still think he would have been more reluctant to give Guinan the benefit of the doubt had the Federation been winning but to each their own.

[marinw]

1 hour ago, Chyromaniac said:

There must be a Starfleet protocol for how to navigate a totalitarian  reality- JLP, Seven, and Raffi seemed to slip into fascism covers pretty quickly.

It apparently happens so often it was in a training holo simulation in Lower Decks.

Edited March 11, 2022 by marinw

[paigow]

24 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

Picard was taking a leap of faith based on a suggestion from Guinan that things were wrong.

Alt!Tasha was the anomaly that convinced Guinan - not just losing the war...

[Hiyo]

Guinan already felt something was wrong...Tasha's presence is what confirmed it for her. I never said losing the war may have swayed Guinan's feelings. 

[Starchild]

Is it possible this actually IS the "Yesterday's Enterprise" timeline? Might Q's comment have been, dare I say, meta-literal?

[salaydouk]

5 hours ago, Starchild said:

Is it possible this actually IS the "Yesterday's Enterprise" timeline? Might Q's comment have been, dare I say, meta-literal?

I don't believe so.  The "Yesterday's Enterprise" timeline appeared to us as the result of the Enterprise C coming through a rift in space time instead of being destroyed in an attempt to save a Klingon outpost.  So that would mean the divergence that created that timeline was only 20 years earlier.  While the timeline we are dealing with in Penance is due, we are told, to an divergence that supposedly originate in 2024.

Also "Yesterday's Enterprise"'s timeline, I believe, is _still_ in the same timeline as what we saw in Star Trek TOS, that the hostilities with the Klingons was something present in Kirk's time that some how boiled over into war.  If I remember the episode properly Enterprise C went through the rift and as a result did not attempt to save the Klingon Outpost thereby not generating any goodwill/good faith between the Federation and the Klingons that served as a basis for peace talks.  Also it is possible that Enterpise C's disappearance into the rift could have resulted in the Klingon's believing that the Federation was resposible for the attack instead of the Romulans.  But I don't believe that we ever got a complete explanation for the cause/start of the war and when it actually occurred.  

9 hours ago, Hiyo said:

I doubt most combat veterans have ever had to deal with time traveling or alternate universe issues.

Picard was taking a leap of faith based on a suggestion from Guinan that things were wrong. Them being on the losing side probably him over to taking the risk of sending the Enterpise C back through the time anomaly. Picard had no way of really knowing whether he was "good or bad before having to undergo [his] combat experiences". I still think he would have been more reluctant to give Guinan the benefit of the doubt had the Federation been winning but to each their own.

Well the discussion of current combat veterans was really to work as analogy.  Of course we are still talking about the show and its science which at this point is specutation/plot points.  But the realities of war and its effects on a human being would be universal no matter the time - past present or future.  Agreed Picard would not know if he was a good or bad person before being subject to being a solider for all those years, but the point was that he would rather be that person and not the one he was in that present.  So therefore it added another "log", though undisclosed, to the fire to his decision to send the Enterprise C back through the rift which already included the "logs" that they were about to lose and the suggestion from Guinan.  Also in that timeline it was never disclosed what was the origin of Picard and Guinan's relationship so we really can't be sure just how strong Guinan's suggestion would have weigh on Picard.  Also by this point, the Federation has been at war for probably close to 20 years - which would have resulted in tremendous numbers of dead.  If given the possibilty of undoing those losses, it stands to reason that any soldier would make a choice to prevent the war from starting. And really since the Federation was losing he had really would have nothing lose by "taking the chance."

But your point is valid that if they were staring down the barrel of winning he could have made a different choice.  

Edited March 12, 2022 by salaydouk

[RobertDeSneero]

You know what happened in 2024?  The Bell Riots, although that happened in SF, not LA.  They name-dropped Sisko, so maybe they will reference the riots somehow.

[Starchild]

Maybe Sisko died before he would have gone back?

[salaydouk]

39 minutes ago, Starchild said:

Maybe Sisko died before he would have gone back?

But that would mean that the real Bell lived.  Sisko and Bashir going back was what got Bell killed and Sisko had to take his place to keep the timeline intact. So then we can go down the rabbit-hole of it was or was not supposed to be that way in the first place... which this thread is probably not the right location to do so...😵

[paigow]

On 3/11/2022 at 11:33 AM, starri said:

MirrorSarek seemed like a decent guy on Disco.  Although I don't understand how General Picard could have executed him in front of his son.  Q made it seem like it was a child. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

"The circle of hell that Dante overlooks." I have to stash that one away for future use.

The way Seven confirmed to herself that she wasn't dreaming seemed almost instructive to me. However, the way the rest if them figured out that they were still themselves, at the risk of blowing their covers, reeked of plot armor IMO. But I can see how the writers didn't want to get bogged down on that and chose to move the plot along.

I'm appreciating how well thought out this season appears to be so far. Unlike Disco...🙄

[salaydouk]

 

On 3/11/2022 at 10:19 AM, Chyromaniac said:

Beyond that, I liked how our characters responded to the changes.  There must be a Starfleet protocol for how to navigate a totalitarian  reality- JLP, Seven, and Raffi seemed to slip into fascism covers pretty quickly.  Rios and Jurati were a little more disjointed, and poor Elnor must not have taken that class at the academy yet.  I’m really looking forward to seeing where they go with all this.

 

On 3/11/2022 at 11:31 AM, marinw said:

It apparently happens so often it was in a training holo simulation in Lower Decks.

If there was a training holo then Rios having a disjointed response doesn't make sense since he should have undergone the same training but I honestly did not think he was all that bad.  Agnes is a civilian and a "loopy" one at that so her issues are easy to understand... 

But I think the best explanation for the ability for them to slip into fascist covers quickly was said in TOS "Mirror, Mirror" by Spock... "It was far easier for you, as civilized men, to behave like barbarians than it was for them as barbarians to behave like civilized men."   

Edited March 13, 2022 by salaydouk

[SnarkShark]

Not TOO bad.  And at least they actually used Agnes correctly.  As a total spaz.   And Elnor basically being a killer by default. 

It came together ridiculously easy, but we're definitely supposed to assume Q helped things along.  Annika Hanson conveniently winding up President, of billions of Humans.  Picard, even among the medium sized group of supposedly talented Ship Commanders conveniently being the one available on Earth at that time in this new reality.  Raffi and Elnor landing in the same place is probably the easiest to attribute directly to Q, rather than the other things which required whole lives to play out.  

They are telegraphing things will eventually go terribly wrong with The Borg Queen.  Although it's still befuddling what the previous Queen in the original reality was doing.

Overall, okay though. It's hard to take the people beamed in as a serious situation, other than them possibly choosing to Fridge poor lil' Elnor, as motivation for our other characters.   They'll be dealt with in the first two minutes of the next episode.