S14.E09: Is Love on the Table?

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, TzuShih said:

Wow!!!!!  Wonder if we bumped into each other.  ☺️  (Altho I must have been a few years older than you! 😄  I was working on Park Ave and 51st St (Clairol Headquarters....just before I gave up office work and turned to what I loved - acting and writing).  At 3 PM, practically ALL the women who worked there left their desks/offices and joined up the march around 51st St and Fifth.  I was so young then (tho not as young as YOU were! Lol!), and I felt that we were 'changing the world!'  Well...we sure made a darn good start!  How wonderful that your mother took you on the march!  BRAVO!  P.S.  I'm still in the city - UWS near Riverside Park & West End.  Still "hoping to change the world."  😁

LOL, bumping into you would have been something given how many women were there!  I remember it was in the late summer after my travel camp ended.  I had just turned 13.  My mother was working as a legal secretary at a law firm in midtown at the time so I took the subway down and met her there.  She was a big fan of Betty Friedan and Bella Abzug.  I wanted to be a part of it for all the right reasons, but also because I'd heard about the mythical bra burning a few years before in NJ at the Miss America pageant and was hoping I'd see it there too, but there wasn't any!  LOL! That was an awesome experience for a kid!  I witnessed a lot of demonstrations back then because we were always hanging out in Manhattan.  Anti-War, Gay Pride, you name it we saw it, often by chance.  I hate to say it but all of my exposure to that stuff made me feel like the world was really changing for the better only to find out later that it still had (and has) a long way to go.  Lucky you being there, I miss NYC.  My mom lived on Riverside Drive in the UWS when she was single.  I've been way up in CT for a long time and although I used to go down there a lot, I haven't been to NY much since the pandemic, especially after my father died of Covid in NYC in April of 2020.  He was 92, though so he lived a full life.  What a small world it is sometimes, right?  Keep up the good fight, LOL!  😉

[Yeah No]

11 hours ago, princelina said:

The thing is - I get that she thinks she's overlooking his negative qualities, but IMO she's letting them fester in her mind, so that when he displeases her they all come spewing out in a rage.  As Pastor Cal pointed out - he is afraid to really talk to her.  But since PC told him that and her friends encouraged him also - he tried at the bowling alley (they were not in front of everyone) and it just made things worse.  Maybe she would have understood it better if he had a screaming rage at a producer in the bathroom that half of the bowling alley could hear?  I don't think they have a future together at this point because of how she "outs" things meant to humiliate him when she gets pissed off.  (And I was totally on her side after his "let's slow things down" on the honeymoon.). My main problem with her, I guess, is that she "knows she's a lot" and seems to be proud of being "a lot" and wants someone who can "handle" the fact that she's "a lot" and if they don't she gets pissed.  Which is fine if she likes being single.  If she wants to be in a relationship she could try toning a few things down and see if it serves her better.  I'm sure the night after she didn't rise to Alyssa's bait she and Mark had a fun time trash talking Alyssa after that dinner.  Who doesn't enjoy that? 😄 They could have done the same with Katina after bowling, but instead they got what they got. 

I wanted to say one more thing about Lindsey and then I promise I'll shut up, LOL. 😉

I forgot to include her personal issue of having a nasty streak and being very vindictive when she thinks someone is out to hurt her.  I think she is motivated to "get people back" for whatever it is she thinks they're doing to her.  I think she might have been a victim of humiliation and getting treated like crap by people in her past and so when anyone makes her feel like that, whether justified or not, she moves in to retaliate by doing the same to them.  And that's why she "outs" Mark on TV about all of the things she doesn't like about him and all his embarrassing faults that I'm sure he wouldn't want anyone to hear about, especially from her.  She most notably did it in the rest room with the producer and has done it on the After Party.  She wants to humiliate him for hurting and/or betraying her (in her mind).  And I think this more than anything else about her is what makes her toxic and makes Mark pulling back from her more than understandable.  And then when he recoils from her abusive, humiliating comments and pulls back she gets even worse in response for him pulling back.  These two are in a death spiral largely caused by this huge character flaw in her.  So while I can see her side of it I'm not blind to the fact that their fatal problem really originates in her.

[princelina]

33 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I wanted to say one more thing about Lindsey and then I promise I'll shut up, LOL. 😉

I forgot to include her personal issue of having a nasty streak and being very vindictive when she thinks someone is out to hurt her.  I think she is motivated to "get people back" for whatever it is she thinks they're doing to her.  I think she might have been a victim of humiliation and getting treated like crap by people in her past and so when anyone makes her feel like that, whether justified or not, she moves in to retaliate by doing the same to them.  And that's why she "outs" Mark on TV about all of the things she doesn't like about him and all his embarrassing faults that I'm sure he wouldn't want anyone to hear about, especially from her.  She most notably did it in the rest room with the producer and has done it on the After Party.  She wants to humiliate him for hurting and/or betraying her (in her mind).  And I think this more than anything else about her is what makes her toxic and makes Mark pulling back from her more than understandable.  And then when he recoils from her abusive, humiliating comments and pulls back she gets even worse in response for him pulling back.  These two are in a death spiral largely caused by this huge character flaw in her.  So while I can see her side of it I'm not blind to the fact that their fatal problem really originates in her.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.  That was kind of my feeling about the sushi - that she wanted to get her digs in.  I know he did it for her, and he could have ordered the chicken, but she could have also tried to make it more fun for him, which would have been more fun for both of them in the long run.

[Yeah No]

46 minutes ago, princelina said:

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.  That was kind of my feeling about the sushi - that she wanted to get her digs in.  I know he did it for her, and he could have ordered the chicken, but she could have also tried to make it more fun for him, which would have been more fun for both of them in the long run.

How would she have made it more fun for him if the purpose of going there is for her to eat sushi?  Plus it was something he did for her, so I see it as him making it fun for her at that moment, not that she has any responsibility to reciprocate. If it wasn't something he was giving her for her birthday I might agree with you but not under the circumstances.  When someone takes me out for my birthday I don't think the onus is on me to make things more fun for them if it's a place or a food they don't normally eat.  They knew what they were getting into and they could always find something to eat less offensive on the menu if they want.  I'm not being callous or selfish about it either because anyone I know that would take me out to dinner on my birthday would agree with that. 

Last year on my birthday my husband told me he'd take me to any restaurant I wanted to go to, so of course I took the opportunity to pick one he's not that crazy about because otherwise I'd never get to go there, LOL.  And it's a good restaurant, is not too expensive and has food I know he likes so I don't know what his problem is with it.  He was happy to take me there in spite of that and ended up enjoying his meal, but it's still not a place he'd want to go to voluntarily.  And if you asked him if he thought I should have picked a place he'd like more, knowing him he'd say "Absolutely not!" because he wants to do something I would like on my birthday even if it's something he's not crazy about.  So I tend to think Mark probably asked Lindsey where she would want to go more than anything and she picked the sushi place knowing he wouldn't love it, but I I don't think in that moment she was doing that to jerk his chain.  I'm kind of getting the impression that Mark's taste in food is very limited and she would probably have a hard time finding a restaurant he would like unless it served basic pub food like burgers and the like.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Yeah No

[Ilovepie]

13 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I wanted to say one more thing about Lindsey and then I promise I'll shut up, LOL. 😉

I forgot to include her personal issue of having a nasty streak and being very vindictive when she thinks someone is out to hurt her.  I think she is motivated to "get people back" for whatever it is she thinks they're doing to her.  I think she might have been a victim of humiliation and getting treated like crap by people in her past and so when anyone makes her feel like that, whether justified or not, she moves in to retaliate by doing the same to them.  And that's why she "outs" Mark on TV about all of the things she doesn't like about him and all his embarrassing faults that I'm sure he wouldn't want anyone to hear about, especially from her.  She most notably did it in the rest room with the producer and has done it on the After Party.  She wants to humiliate him for hurting and/or betraying her (in her mind).  And I think this more than anything else about her is what makes her toxic and makes Mark pulling back from her more than understandable.  And then when he recoils from her abusive, humiliating comments and pulls back she gets even worse in response for him pulling back.  These two are in a death spiral largely caused by this huge character flaw in her.  So while I can see her side of it I'm not blind to the fact that their fatal problem really originates in her.

I totally agree with this assessment. I also think Lindsey has shown that when she asks Mark something, she doesn't actually let him answer - she immediately starts talking over him. And when he does answer, she has also invalidated his opinions by calling his feelings "bullshit" or rolling her eyes or saying something rude. Lindsey demanding answers from him and either not letting him talk or belittling his answers has taught Mark to just not bother. I would be over it too. She seems to think because she did a few nice things for him (I put on a hazmat suit!) that entitles her to talk to him however she wants. Tit for tat in a relationship is not a good road to go down. In real relationships, give and take happens and sometimes there is an imbalance and that's ok. Because the next time you might be the one that needs to be the taker. I don't see Mark throwing out "You put on a hazmat suit? Oh yeah? Well, what about when I took your side and smoothed things over with the others after your bad behavior on the plane?" Mature healthy relationships require doing nice things for your spouse without the expectation of reciprocation, but hopefully knowing that it will happen because your spouse also feels the same and treats you accordingly.

[Kdawg82]

Lindsay is a toxic ooze. Not the good kind like the one that created teenage mutant ninja turtles. I'm talking about the kind that will erode Mark's very spirit until the iminent divorce. Maybe not "no" on decision day but soon after. It's like someone on these trash shows said (forget if it was the "love is blind" trainwreck or this one) but it was said to the effect of "when you don't fight & keep getting over the problems quickly, it means one of you is pushing your emotions down.  It will ultimately end up blowing up." Ain't that the truth!

[qtpye]

37 minutes ago, Kdawg82 said:

Lindsay is a toxic ooze. Not the good kind like the one that created teenage mutant ninja turtles.

Okay, that made me laugh.

[Gator Stud]

On 3/3/2022 at 7:00 PM, kristen111 said:

She’s been working from home.

Working from home = working. There is no lower status for people who WFH.

[Gator Stud]

On 3/6/2022 at 9:54 AM, Kdawg82 said:

Jasmina has Michael's number. I believe she is a classy and decent woman and she will not be mistreated. I find it difficult to NOT be on her side. Maybe an unpopular opinion but there is something to what she is feeling and experiencing.  We may not be seeing it all. I'm inclined to believe her. 

She keeps on saying that he yells at her and talks to her with a tone, but all I see is Michael looking stoned and chilled out. Could he be anymore laid back?  When do we see the part where he yells at her? It seems like she is making this shit up, unless there is some bad editing. Hes not being a Threatening Black Man. I just assumed he was a stoner. He seems ok, except he seems depressed all of the time.  They both should smile.  It automatically makes them look 10X better.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Gator Stud

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Working from home = working. There is no lower status for people who WFH.

Agreed. I work from home. I think that I'm the one who originally said that and I didn't mean to imply working from home was somehow lesser than working elsewhere.

[Gator Stud]

On 3/2/2022 at 6:25 PM, Katie111 said:

Is it bad that I miss Alyssa and Chris?  There is no energy left on this show.  Jasmina looks bored to tears, or mad, not sure which.  I can’t stand Noi’s voice.  Lindsay just says the same things over and over.  I like Katina but she is boring me too. 

Katina's kitchen?

[mythoughtis]

13 hours ago, Gator Stud said:

Working from home = working. There is no lower status for people who WFH.

Agreed.  However people who do not work from home think that you get to relax and get a couple chores done during your work day. I found out quickly during the pandemic that my workplace put so many  monitoring rules in place that I felt guilty going in the kitchen for a cup of tea.  Which was odd since I had a break room at work that I could go to whenever I chose.  

[mythoughtis]

On 3/8/2022 at 12:07 AM, Yeah No said:

How would she have made it more fun for him if the purpose of going there is for her to eat sushi?  Plus it was something he did for her, so I see it as him making it fun for her at that moment, not that she has any responsibility to reciprocate. If it wasn't something he was giving her for her birthday I might agree with you but not under the circumstances.  When someone takes me out for my birthday I don't think the onus is on me to make things more fun for them if it's a place or a food they don't normally eat.  They knew what they were getting into and they could always find something to eat less offensive on the menu if they want.  I'm not being callous or selfish about it either because anyone I know that would take me out to dinner on my birthday would agree with that. 

Last year on my birthday my husband told me he'd take me to any restaurant I wanted to go to, so of course I took the opportunity to pick one he's not that crazy about because otherwise I'd never get to go there, LOL.  And it's a good restaurant, is not too expensive and has food I know he likes so I don't know what his problem is with it.  He was happy to take me there in spite of that and ended up enjoying his meal, but it's still not a place he'd want to go to voluntarily.  And if you asked him if he thought I should have picked a place he'd like more, knowing him he'd say "Absolutely not!" because he wants to do something I would like on my birthday even if it's something he's not crazy about.  So I tend to think Mark probably asked Lindsey where she would want to go more than anything and she picked the sushi place knowing he wouldn't love it, but I I don't think in that moment she was doing that to jerk his chain.  I'm kind of getting the impression that Mark's taste in food is very limited and she would probably have a hard time finding a restaurant he would like unless it served basic pub food like burgers and the like.

It wasn’t the choice of restaurant that bothered me.  Mark chose the restaurant because he knew she liked sushi.  It was the fact that she refused to let him order something other than what she wanted him to try.  Which was not something that you should suggest for a first time sushi eater.  Especially someone of Marks preferred meal choices.
 

She wants to be the boss and she wants to humiliate people.  Those two traits make life miserable for the other person.  

[Gator Stud]

56 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

Agreed.  However people who do not work from home think that you get to relax and get a couple chores done during your work day. I found out quickly during the pandemic that my workplace put so many  monitoring rules in place that I felt guilty going in the kitchen for a cup of tea.  Which was odd since I had a break room at work that I could go to whenever I chose.  

I would go to the beach to work. Or sometimes I just would work at 2AM and finish work before noon.  This is what Steve wants.

[Jeanne222]

1 hour ago, mythoughtis said:

It wasn’t the choice of restaurant that bothered me.  Mark chose the restaurant because he knew she liked sushi.  It was the fact that she refused to let him order something other than what she wanted him to try.  Which was not something that you should suggest for a first time sushi eater.  Especially someone of Marks preferred meal choices.
 

She wants to be the boss and she wants to humiliate people.  Those two traits make life miserable for the other person.  

Yes indeed. He took her there because SHE liked it. She had to make a mountain out of a mole hill by insisting he eat things he had no desire to try 

She’s annoying as hell!

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Yes indeed. He took her there because SHE liked it. She had to make a mountain out of a mole hill by insisting he eat things he had no desire to try 

I wasn't watching super carefully but I didn't really see the "forcing." She said she was going to order for him and he went along - I didn't hear an objection. Then he was a good sport and tried stuff. He didn't like it. But I don't think that she forced anything down his throat and I don't think he was upset that he tried it, even though he found it pretty disgusting.

First noodle gate, now sushigate. Are we all going to end up with food issues by the time this season ends?

Edited March 9, 2022 by Elizzikra

[ByTor]

1 hour ago, Elizzikra said:

First noodle gate, now sushigate.

LOL can we add "burgergate" because of the hockey puck burger Mark grilled?

[Gator Stud]

2 hours ago, ByTor said:

LOL can we add "burgergate" because of the hockey puck burger Mark grilled?

Tonegate too. Apparently Michael turns into the Incredible Hulk when nobody is watching.

[Kira53]

On 3/7/2022 at 10:05 AM, Yeah No said:

Why is it on her for approaching it when it was HIS idea to take her for sushi?  I'm still not getting how everything is always her fault.  Mark said point blank that he took her for sushi because he knows she likes it.  That to me meant he was willing to put up with it to make her happy.  Why is that so wrong if she takes advantage of it?  My husband and I do that stuff for each other all the time.  I just made him a big spaghetti and meatball dinner for his birthday (which was a lot of work) because he asked for it.  He knows I'm trying to watch my weight and avoid certain fatty foods, but I'm not going to deny him what he wants just because it's not what I want.  It's his birthday and I'm there to please him.  He does similar stuff for me.  It may not be what he likes but he puts up with it for me on my birthday.  Maybe that's why we're married over 40 years and these people are still single.

It wasn’t his idea.  It was production.  

[Ilovepie]

1 hour ago, Gator Stud said:

Tonegate too. Apparently Michael turns into the Incredible Hulk when nobody is watching.

Exactly! There is ZERO evidence of him being aggressive or threatening in any way, yet there is AMPLE evidence for her icy demeanor and nasty tone.....Jasmina is lucky this season features Lindsey and Alyssa because she is no prize either!

[Gator Stud]

On 3/2/2022 at 7:03 PM, Crashcourse said:

And I hope she does it with a fucking frying pan.

O- LIE- JUAN and Katina in 15 years

[antfitz]

I hope they update us on Chris every so often, comma but I never want to see Alyssa again.

[Elizzikra]

3 hours ago, antfitz said:

I hope they update us on Chris every so often, comma but I never want to see Alyssa again.

But she’s a good fucking person…

[LuvMyShows]

 

On 3/9/2022 at 9:31 AM, mythoughtis said:

Mark chose the restaurant because he knew she liked sushi.  It was the fact that she refused to let him order something other than what she wanted him to try. 

On 3/9/2022 at 1:21 PM, Elizzikra said:

I wasn't watching super carefully but I didn't really see the "forcing." She said she was going to order for him and he went along - I didn't hear an objection.

Not sure we saw anything to indicate that she refused to let him order what he wanted.  And indeed from what we saw, he went along when she said she was going to order for him.  But unfortunately, what I can easily hear Lindsey saying in my mind, is to 'jokingly' call Mark a pussy for not going along with what she ordered, and him doing his 'go along to get along' so as not to have a scene at dinner.

[Yeah No]

On 3/9/2022 at 9:31 AM, mythoughtis said:

It wasn’t the choice of restaurant that bothered me.  Mark chose the restaurant because he knew she liked sushi.  It was the fact that she refused to let him order something other than what she wanted him to try.  Which was not something that you should suggest for a first time sushi eater.  Especially someone of Marks preferred meal choices

On 3/9/2022 at 10:40 AM, Jeanne222 said:

Yes indeed. He took her there because SHE liked it. She had to make a mountain out of a mole hill by insisting he eat things he had no desire to try.

I didn't see any scene where Lindsey insisted he had to eat things he had no desire to try.  He didn't act like he was being forced either.  There is no scene where she makes him eat it against his will.  He didn't like it but he put the food in his mouth voluntarily.  And why shouldn't a husband take his wife to a restaurant for her birthday that SHE likes?  Does it have to be something he likes too?  That's not the way it works in my 41 year marriage.  I would gladly go to a sushi restaurant for my husband even if I didn't like it and order something cooked.

On 3/9/2022 at 1:21 PM, Elizzikra said:

I wasn't watching super carefully but I didn't really see the "forcing." She said she was going to order for him and he went along - I didn't hear an objection. Then he was a good sport and tried stuff. He didn't like it. But I don't think that she forced anything down his throat and I don't think he was upset that he tried it, even though he found it pretty disgusting.

Thank you, that's exactly how I saw it.  Unless someone can show me a scene that proves that Lindsey forced him to eat sushi against his will, I won't assume she did.

On 3/9/2022 at 6:22 PM, Kira53 said:

It wasn’t his idea.  It was production.  

I included that possibility in one of my earlier posts upthread, which incidentally only supports the idea that Lindsey didn't force Mark to eat anything against his will.  If anything the show made him take her there and say it was his idea.

[Jeanne222]

21 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I didn't see any scene where Lindsey insisted he had to eat things he had no desire to try.  He didn't act like he was being forced either.  There is no scene where she makes him eat it against his will.  He didn't like it but he put the food in his mouth voluntarily.  And why shouldn't a husband take his wife to a restaurant for her birthday that SHE likes?  Does it have to be something he likes too?  That's not the way it works in my 41 year marriage.  I would gladly go to a sushi restaurant for my husband even if I didn't like it and order something cooked.

Thank you, that's exactly how I saw it.  Unless someone can show me a scene that proves that Lindsey forced him to eat sushi against his will, I won't assume she did.

I included that possibility in one of my earlier posts upthread, which incidentally only supports the idea that Lindsey didn't force Mark to eat anything against his will.  If anything the show made him take her there and say it was his idea.

Sorry but we saw things differently. Mark was kind enough to take Lindsay to a restaurant she would enjoy on her birthday. She ordered everything she liked but didn’t bother to order things Mark might enjoy!

She thought it quite funny to see him try things he hated. He tried to be a good sport. 
 

She knew he didn’t like raw seafood and didn’t even have the common courtesy to order veggie succhi for him. 
 

I really dislike her nasty cackle as he tried to down a bite or two. 

[Intuition]

2 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Sorry but we saw things differently. Mark was kind enough to take Lindsay to a restaurant she would enjoy on her birthday. She ordered everything she liked but didn’t bother to order things Mark might enjoy!

She thought it quite funny to see him try things he hated. He tried to be a good sport. 
 

She knew he didn’t like raw seafood and didn’t even have the common courtesy to order veggie succhi for him. 
 

I really dislike her nasty cackle as he tried to down a bite or two. 

Did Lindsey prevent him from ordering?  Mark is in his late 30's, he's capable of ordering for himself.  He knows how to look at a menu and find cooked food on it, I'm sure.  She's not his mommy.  Besides, the producers probably made them order that.

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Sorry but we saw things differently. Mark was kind enough to take Lindsay to a restaurant she would enjoy on her birthday. She ordered everything she liked but didn’t bother to order things Mark might enjoy!

She thought it quite funny to see him try things he hated. He tried to be a good sport. 
 

She knew he didn’t like raw seafood and didn’t even have the common courtesy to order veggie succhi for him. 
 

I really dislike her nasty cackle as he tried to down a bite or two. 

But my point is why couldn't he speak up if she ordered stuff he didn't like?  If he's that afraid of her or that much of a people pleaser that he can't say "no" to something like that, that's his issue, not hers.  None of my friends who don't like raw fish would ever let me get away with ordering it for them, not that I would ever do it, mind you!  He could have politely declined to eat it and ordered something else for himself.  Plus it didn't look to me like he was having a bad time so I have to think that he was being a good sport, but again that was his decision, he wasn't forced into it.  And I'm sure if he was forced into it the show wouldn't have missed the opportunity to make a big thing out of it.

I once worked with a woman who'd never had sushi.  She was curious but didn't know where to begin so she asked me to go with her to a sushi restaurant at lunch and order for her.  She admitted that she didn't like raw fish but wanted to broaden her horizons.  So I took her and ordered some basic sushi for her.  I told her to start with the California roll, but she wanted to see if she could get into the raw stuff.  So I ordered her some simple sushi.  Well, she gave it the ol' college try but in the end left most of it.  I ended up taking the leftovers home.  It was also a buffet so she got up and got herself something else to eat.  It's that simple.  

[JenE4]

With all the debate on who ordered what, we’re forgetting just how pretentious Lindsey is (e.g., the speak Spanish fight). I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that Lindsey is precisely the kind of person who would walk into a sushi restaurant and order omacase, which means chef’s choice.

[Jeanne222]

10 hours ago, Yeah No said:

But my point is why couldn't he speak up if she ordered stuff he didn't like?  If he's that afraid of her or that much of a people pleaser that he can't say "no" to something like that, that's his issue, not hers.  None of my friends who don't like raw fish would ever let me get away with ordering it for them, not that I would ever do it, mind you!  He could have politely declined to eat it and ordered something else for himself.  Plus it didn't look to me like he was having a bad time so I have to think that he was being a good sport, but again that was his decision, he wasn't forced into it.  And I'm sure if he was forced into it the show wouldn't have missed the opportunity to make a big thing out of it.

I once worked with a woman who'd never had sushi.  She was curious but didn't know where to begin so she asked me to go with her to a sushi restaurant at lunch and order for her.  She admitted that she didn't like raw fish but wanted to broaden her horizons.  So I took her and ordered some basic sushi for her.  I told her to start with the California roll, but she wanted to see if she could get into the raw stuff.  So I ordered her some simple sushi.  Well, she gave it the ol' college try but in the end left most of it.  I ended up taking the leftovers home.  It was also a buffet so she got up and got herself something else to eat.  It's that simple.  

I can't speak as to what Mark thinks of does.  I do think Lindsay has done just about everything to humiliate and embarrass Mark.

He was being a gentleman and Lindsay a laughing hyena.

She thinks she's all that but so far she has no takers and I predict Mark will soon say goodbye and run fast!

[Yeah No]

21 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

I can't speak as to what Mark thinks of does.  I do think Lindsay has done just about everything to humiliate and embarrass Mark.

He was being a gentleman and Lindsay a laughing hyena.

She thinks she's all that but so far she has no takers and I predict Mark will soon say goodbye and run fast!

I agree with you in general about Lindsey, but Mark still has some responsibility in letting her order for him.  He ought to know what's coming.  I don't think he would have let her do that if he knew that she was going to order a bunch of raw fish.  And even he didn't, after she did it, it if it was that important to him he could have declined.  So I have to assume it wasn't that important to him and he was OK with letting her order whatever she wanted whether he might like it or not.  But I tend to agree with those that think production put her up to ordering that to create drama, which is why he didn't protest it at all.

[Jeanne222]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

I agree with you in general about Lindsey, but Mark still has some responsibility in letting her order for him.  He ought to know what's coming.  I don't think he would have let her do that if he knew that she was going to order a bunch of raw fish.  And even he didn't, after she did it, it if it was that important to him he could have declined.  So I have to assume it wasn't that important to him and he was OK with letting her order whatever she wanted whether he might like it or not.  But I tend to agree with those that think production put her up to ordering that to create drama, which is why he didn't protest it at all.

I’m guessing most people in Lindsays life let her do whatever she wants so she doesn’t create a scene and embarrass them!

I’m guessing Mark will run fast on decision day. 

She has degraded him in sooo many ways!

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

I’m guessing most people in Lindsays life let her do whatever she wants so she doesn’t create a scene and embarrass them!

I’m guessing Mark will run fast on decision day. 

She has degraded him in sooo many ways!

I hope he does leave her, but I still think Mark is a wuss that turns himself inside out to please people so they will like him, not just Lindsey.  He may actually say yes on decision day even if just because the "experts" tell him to give it a chance.

[Jeanne222]

45 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I hope he does leave her, but I still think Mark is a wuss that turns himself inside out to please people so they will like him, not just Lindsey.  He may actually say yes on decision day even if just because the "experts" tell him to give it a chance.

There are good men that can’t be called a wuss for being kind and caring. 

Mark cares for his mother and grandmother while many would walk away. 

He likes getting along with people and never raises his voice to embarrass them. 

Lindsay is surely no wuss but a lot of other things I could offer to describe her. 

The other women merely tolerate her for the show. 

Her dad and brother surely had more to say but held their tongue. 

Then there’s Lindsays mother….

I haven’t read any spoilers but I’m betting Mark will run out the door shouting ‘ “finally I’m free”!

[Yeah No]

18 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

There are good men that can’t be called a wuss for being kind and caring. 

Mark cares for his mother and grandmother while many would walk away. 

He likes getting along with people and never raises his voice to embarrass them. 

Lindsay is surely no wuss but a lot of other things I could offer to describe her. 

The other women merely tolerate her for the show. 

Her dad and brother surely had more to say but held their tongue. 

Then there’s Lindsays mother….

I haven’t read any spoilers but I’m betting Mark will run out the door shouting ‘ “finally I’m free”!

Mark is not a wuss because he is a caring person.  He can still be caring and not cave into people just to be liked all the time.  Being that way can be just as abusive and hurtful to one's partner as being nasty and embarrassing because he may favor others over his wife and throw her under the bus for them whether she deserves it or not.  Being a "people pleaser" is often not as admirable as all that, not to mention how he cheats himself by being that way.  If his primary motivation is to make others like him it's not that altruistic and more self serving.  If he could grow a backbone he'd be a much more mature and happy person.  Just my opinion!

Edited March 13, 2022 by Yeah No

[Jeanne222]

In my humble opinion Mark is trying hard to only get through the next couple of weeks then he can say goodbye to the verbally abusive Lindsay!

[ChristmasJones]

I wish Katina would have said to Oja, "you are not meeting MY standards for a husband. You're working on it, there is nothing wrong with you, I can see you're making some progress, but you're just not there yet. I just want to see more effort, I think you might be able to do it, time will tell. You're just not at that level yet of what a husband should be." 

That's not the most exact replication, but I wish she would say the exact same things to him but just substitute the word husband for wife.  There is a level of contempt and entitlement coming from him when he says this stuff that is very concerning.  I think the entitlement is the worst part. 

[Jeanne222]

5 minutes ago, ChristmasJones said:

I wish Katina would have said to Oja, "you are not meeting MY standards for a husband. You're working on it, there is nothing wrong with you, I can see you're making some progress, but you're just not there yet. I just want to see more effort, I think you might be able to do it, time will tell. You're just not at that level yet of what a husband should be." 

That's not the most exact replication, but I wish she would say the exact same things to him but just substitute the word husband for wife.  There is a level of contempt and entitlement coming from him when he says this stuff that is very concerning.  I think the entitlement is the worst part. 

Katina is in a verbally abusive relationship. He’ll never change. I hope she leaves before her elevator reaches the bottom level and she can’t get out!

Some women get so beaten down….

[Yeah No]

23 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

In my humble opinion Mark is trying hard to only get through the next couple of weeks then he can say goodbye to the verbally abusive Lindsay!

I actually think he's going to stay with her.  The way he said, "I don't want you to ever think I don't care about you" at the sushi dinner didn't sound insincere to me.  He must be a masochist!

[Retired at last]

23 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Katina is in a verbally abusive relationship. He’ll never change. I hope she leaves before her elevator reaches the bottom level and she can’t get out!

And that's what she came from, so it could be all she knows and she keeps ending up in these abusive relationships. She seems like she is stronger than that, but it's what she knows. Another one who should NEVER been selected to be married to a stranger. Especially if the "expert" couldn't read Olajuwon for exactly what he is.

[Jeanne222]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

I actually think he's going to stay with her.  The way he said, "I don't want you to ever think I don't care about you" at the sushi dinner didn't sound insincere to me.  He must be a masochist!

I'm betting he's a gonner!

Edited March 14, 2022 by Jeanne222

[cinsays]

18 hours ago, Retired at last said:

And that's what she came from, so it could be all she knows and she keeps ending up in these abusive relationships. She seems like she is stronger than that, but it's what she knows. Another one who should NEVER been selected to be married to a stranger. Especially if the "expert" couldn't read Olajuwon for exactly what he is.

But if the "experts" are watching everything, shouldn't they have her back and suggest to her that Olajuwan is not for her, that they messed up?  Instead of letting her keep getting damaged by his crappiness???

[Jeanne222]

8 minutes ago, cinsays said:

But if the "experts" are watching everything, shouldn't they have her back and suggest to her that Olajuwan is not for her, that they messed up?  Instead of letting her keep getting damaged by his crappiness???

I think in that last home visit from Vivianna we saw her picking up on verbal abuse and O making his wife feel terrible!

He really thinks he’s all that. He has been successful in life but a huge failure in love!

[qtpye]

On 3/13/2022 at 4:00 PM, Jeanne222 said:

Katina is in a verbally abusive relationship. He’ll never change. I hope she leaves before her elevator reaches the bottom level and she can’t get out!

Some women get so beaten down….

It is crazy how that can happen to even the most confident and secure women.

25 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

I think in that last home visit from Vivianna we saw her picking up on verbal abuse and O making his wife feel terrible!

He really thinks he’s all that. He has been successful in life but a huge failure in love!

It is very impressive that he has bought a house in Boston and he has a nice body but beyond that his personality is stank and leaves much to be desired.

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, cinsays said:

But if the "experts" are watching everything, shouldn't they have her back and suggest to her that Olajuwan is not for her, that they messed up?  Instead of letting her keep getting damaged by his crappiness???

Yes, they should be doing this but how many seasons now have there been horrifically abusive spouses and the experts don't do jack shit to help?  The list is getting longer.  Just proof of how fake this show is.  The experts do nothing.

[Kira53]

22 hours ago, cinsays said:

But if the "experts" are watching everything, shouldn't they have her back and suggest to her that Olajuwan is not for her, that they messed up?  Instead of letting her keep getting damaged by his crappiness???

Maybe  they saw things that are positive about their relationship edited out.  Maybe they saw some inexperienced or lazy behaviors from Katina.  We only see a small part of their relationship.  What is Katina bringing?