S06.E05: Heart and Soul

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

My problem with the writing for Kate is not so much that we don't see more details about her weight, but that she's so one-note compared to the other characters. We see no humor, wit, or quirks, no passions other than music (and even that is not very convincing), no genuine curiosity or care about other people. We see is a perpetual victim - my dad died, my mom tried to get me to lose weight, my boyfriend was abusive, my child has a disability, my husband took a job in another city - who is mean and/or indifferent to most of the people in her life, and still, for some inexplicable reason, they love and support her no matter what.

Yes.  I've said before that Kate is the most underwritten lead character in any TV show I have watched.  She goes from life event to life event with no character development.   She has also gone down the most stereotypical storyline for female character--meet cute, wedding, parenthood, marriage in trouble for 3 episodes before getting back together,  second child, etc.   And we are to see her divorce and find love again.   Yawn.  

[Guest]

Quick reminder to stay on topic. If your post is not primarily about this episode, please find a better thread for it. This may be Small Talk, a character thread, or elsewhere.

Thank you.

[Boo Boo]

23 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Yes.  I've said before that Kate is the most underwritten lead character in any TV show I have watched.  She goes from life event to life event with no character development.   She has also gone down the most stereotypical storyline for female character--meet cute, wedding, parenthood, marriage in trouble for 3 episodes before getting back together,  second child, etc.   And we are to see her divorce and find love again.   Yawn.  

I will say one of the only things I like about the way they are treating the character is that her size is not a detriment to her attractiveness to other men.  

I think Chrissy is beautiful, but we all know the men that are not attractive in the slightest bit but think they should be with a supermodel.  

[kili]

Quote

 They never mentioned her grades, Kevin was so so and Randall smart, but Kate?

There is that scene when all the kids have to have their report cards publicly read. Randall is upset about an A- (too much time in mathletes) and Kevin is proud of  his two As (Randall is quick to tell everyone that is in PE and Art and the rest are Cs and Ds). Kate's grades aren't specifically mentioned, but it sounds like they are between those two extremes and improving.  

Quote

Simple stuff like fitting in the seat on an airplane,

They did cover that in season 1. She gets on the plane and the woman in her row of seats gives her a disgusted look, so she re-assures the woman she has purchased two seats (and the stewardess hands her an extender). They've explained she cannot sit in a booth and she expressed concern about finding a wedding dress. They've touched on a lot of this. 

Quote

She had her first boyfriend and he was an abusive douche.

Stuart was her first boyfriend in elementary school. She was also dating somebody in high school (still Stuart?).

In this episode, the number three appeared a lot of times. Three minute dates, three extra AP courses, Rebecca mentions her three kids, and Eddie has been married three times. I was beginning to wonder if it meant something. 

[KaveDweller]

On 2/5/2022 at 10:09 AM, Scarlett45 said:

Well, a lot of parts of Kate’s story seem very real to me. The not having friends, or a part-time job/school does not seem typical. They could’ve written one close friend for Kate at this time and had them hang out together. 

Teenage/Young Adult Kate does have friends, or at least one. She is always referencing how she is going off to do something with a girl named Molly. In this past episode she was going to see her after she criticized Rebecca and Miguel for sitting around watching Who Wants to Be a Millionaire. She has mentioned this same friend before. They have just never bothered to cast a person to play her because it's not really important to the overall story.

I think it is actually realistic that most of Kate's high school friends would have gone off to college and so she is hanging out with the one still left in town. And she wouldn't have had many chances to meet new people as she isn't in school or working anymore.

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, KaveDweller said:

Teenage/Young Adult Kate does have friends, or at least one. She is always referencing how she is going off to do something with a girl named Molly. In this past episode she was going to see her after she criticized Rebecca and Miguel for sitting around watching Who Wants to Be a Millionaire. She has mentioned this same friend before. They have just never bothered to cast a person to play her because it's not really important to the overall story.

I think it is actually realistic that most of Kate's high school friends would have gone off to college and so she is hanging out with the one still left in town. And she wouldn't have had many chances to meet new people as she isn't in school or working anymore.

I thought Molly was her “cover”, not an actual friend. 

[chocolatine]

Molly is Marc.

[KaveDweller]

20 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I thought Molly was her “cover”, not an actual friend. 

She's her actual friend that Kate used her as a cover after she told her family she had split with Marc, and when she went to have her abortion. Rebecca knew who she was when Kate talked about staying in town to see her. Then Kate referenced her in this past episode, and it is way after she stopped seeing Marc.

[mansonlamps]

23 hours ago, kili said:

They did cover that in season 1. She gets on the plane and the woman in her row of seats gives her a disgusted look, so she re-assures the woman she has purchased two seats (and the stewardess hands her an extender). They've explained she cannot sit in a booth and she expressed concern about finding a wedding dress. They've touched on a lot of this. 

So you think the actual life experience of morbidly obese people has been "covered" 5 or 6 years ago in a couple of scenes and they live a life of great wardrobes, no physical limitations,  no mean comments and men falling for them is the reality?  OK, that's interesting.

Edited February 8, 2022 by mansonlamps

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, KaveDweller said:

She's her actual friend that Kate used her as a cover after she told her family she had split with Marc, and when she went to have her abortion. Rebecca knew who she was when Kate talked about staying in town to see her. Then Kate referenced her in this past episode, and it is way after she stopped seeing Marc.

Thank you!

[Madding crowd]

28 minutes ago, mansonlamps said:

So you think the actual life experience of morbidly obese people has been "covered" 5 or 6 years ago in a couple of scenes and they live a life of great wardrobes, no physical limitations,  no mean comments and men falling for them is the reality?  OK, that's interesting.

Obese women can have great wardrobes and men falling for them. Why should the show focus on mean comments? Many obese people don’t focus on mean comments they focus on their jobs, partners, kids, friends and live life like everyone else.

[madmax]

21 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

Why should the show focus on mean comments? Many obese people don’t focus on mean comments they focus on their jobs, partners, kids, friends and live life like everyone else.

I don't think people want it to be the focus, just not ignored but for a few scenes that happened years ago.

 

[maggiemae]

I must be missing something....

We don't see Rebecca with Kevin's kids.

We see Kevin now living at Kate's. No family or kid interaction between the grands and two of the big three. The kids are not being raised as cousins. 

LOL - thinking Jack would hate that.

And Madison can afford that house and work? Without a nanny? How did that happen? And why?

 

 

 

[Ohiopirate02]

11 hours ago, madmax said:

I don't think people want it to be the focus, just not ignored but for a few scenes that happened years ago.

 

The show has addressed Kate's size this season. Toby had to reassure Kate that he booked a massage therapist that can handle her.  That's what the masseuse with the hands of a linebacker meant.  The show is acknowledging Kate's size, the are just choosing not to shame Kate and Chrissy with it. 

8 hours ago, maggiemae said:

And Madison can afford that house and work? Without a nanny? How did that happen? And why?

The show has never addressed Madison's finances.  How she can afford that house without any apparent job has been an ongoing question.

[Shermie]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The show has never addressed Madison's finances.  How she can afford that house without any apparent job has been an ongoing question.

I’d assume Kevin pays for it. It’s a home for his children, after all. The show implies Kevin is wealthy, so it would be no big deal for him to get a house for his children to live in. Should he get a house for himself too? Obviously, but that’s not the question here.

[Rootbeer]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The show has never addressed Madison's finances.  How she can afford that house without any apparent job has been an ongoing question.

The show has never really addressed anyone's finances other than Kevin.  He's the only one with a career that would provide the lifestyle he seems to be living.

Toby and Kate live in a nice home in pricey Southern California and, although they paid lip service to their financial situation when he was out of work, it didn't last long and there was seemingly no drop in their standard of living.  Kate has a part time job as a teaching assistant which means she is barely paid enough to cover the cost of babysitting her kids while she is at work.  Meanwhile, they are apparently able to afford for Toby to live in SF, another hugely expensive city, for half the week and then fly back and forth every weekend.  He's some sort of IT guy or something and I know they can make good money, but their lifestyle is very upper middle class based on the amount they must be spending for childcare for a blind toddler and an infant so that Kate can 'work' essentially for free.

Then, we have Randall and Beth.  He started out in finance, dealing with futures in the stock market and that can pay very, very well; so their lifestyle initially made sense.  Since then, he has been out of work (possibly on LOA for depression) and now is a council person in Philly which pays $130,000 a year.  Not bad, but not a lot considering their gorgeous home.  Beth had her own business which failed and they must've accrued some significant debt there and now she is working teaching dance, another career that barely pays the bills.  Yet, they're flying back and forth to LA on a whim, heading down to Louisiana so Randall can meet up with his birth mother's ghost and seemingly have quite a lot of money for discretionary spending.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, Shermie said:

I’d assume Kevin pays for it. It’s a home for his children, after all. The show implies Kevin is wealthy, so it would be no big deal for him to get a house for his children to live in. Should he get a house for himself too? Obviously, but that’s not the question here.

Oddly, the show has made it a point that Madison does not need Kevin to support her.  She was all set to have the kids without his support.  She had no intention to take Kevin to court for him to pay his half.  

[Empress1]

8 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

Then, we have Randall and Beth.  He started out in finance, dealing with futures in the stock market and that can pay very, very well; so their lifestyle initially made sense.  Since then, he has been out of work (possibly on LOA for depression) and now is a council person in Philly which pays $130,000 a year.  Not bad, but not a lot considering their gorgeous home.

Houses in Alpine, NJ, where they lived before Philly, are worth millions (Chris Rock lives in Alpine) and they lived in theirs for like 15 years. The equity in that house would enable them to pay cash for their Philly house. There are houses in Philly that cost millions but I don’t think theirs would unless it was in Rittenhouse Square (affluent downtown area) and I don’t think it is. Philly is one of the cheapest of the major cities; it is also the poorest, with something like 25% of the population in poverty. (They also own his late mother’s property; maybe they sold it.) And you can afford a house in Philly on $130K a year, depending on the neighborhood. (You can BUY a house for $130K in some Philly neighborhoods.)

17 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Oddly, the show has made it a point that Madison does not need Kevin to support her.  She was all set to have the kids without his support.  She had no intention to take Kevin to court for him to pay his half.  

Yes, and her home was hers (could be rented, we don’t know) before she met Kevin - he moved in with her when she got pregnant. I’ve assumed she has family money that she lives on; I don’t remember the details but when her mother abandoned her, she left her some pricey-looking earrings, so maybe there is a trust fund or something. I don’t think she’s had a job at any point on the show.

[Rootbeer]

17 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

 

Yes, and her home was hers (could be rented, we don’t know) before she met Kevin - he moved in with her when she got pregnant. I’ve assumed she has family money that she lives on; I don’t remember the details but when her mother abandoned her, she left her some pricey-looking earrings, so maybe there is a trust fund or something. I don’t think she’s had a job at any point on the show.

Yes, Madison was living there prior to her relationship with Kevin, so presumably the house is hers or she has been renting it for the past several years.  I think she worked as a party planner or something along those lines when Kate met her, she did speak vaguely of a job back in the day.  It doesn't seem like she's worked at all since she got pregnant, though,

While Madison was willing to go it alone with the twins, I don't think she'd turn down assistance from Kevin and I don't think he'd ever want his kids to lack necessities; so I could see them having some sort of arrangement currently where he gives her money regularly to help support his children.  Kevin doesn't seem like the kind of guy who'd want his baby Mama to go it alone.

Once again, though, the show is really lacking specifics on how most of these people are earning a living day to day.

[izabella]

I vaguely recall Madison having a job at a school.  That was when she told Kate there was an opening for music teacher there, and she could help her get an interview.  I could be misremembering, but she did have a job. 

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

I vaguely recall Madison having a job at a school.  That was when she told Kate there was an opening for music teacher there, and she could help her get an interview.  I could be misremembering, but she did have a job. 

I think that was a connection rather than a job (she may have even said something about the principal owing her a favor). She would not be able to afford her own house in LA if she worked at a school, unless it was a very senior administration role for the school district.

We were never told exactly what Madison's job is, but we do know she's well connected. She got Kate that interview with the principal, and when Kate was getting ready to get married, she got her a same-day appointment at an exclusive bridal boutique that's apparently booked months in advance.

[bros402]

14 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

Then, we have Randall and Beth.  He started out in finance, dealing with futures in the stock market and that can pay very, very well; so their lifestyle initially made sense.  Since then, he has been out of work (possibly on LOA for depression) and now is a council person in Philly which pays $130,000 a year.  Not bad, but not a lot considering their gorgeous home.  Beth had her own business which failed and they must've accrued some significant debt there and now she is working teaching dance, another career that barely pays the bills.  Yet, they're flying back and forth to LA on a whim, heading down to Louisiana so Randall can meet up with his birth mother's ghost and seemingly have quite a lot of money for discretionary spending.

Randall's house was easily worth 3 million+ - in 2007, the median sale price in Alpine went from $1.0 million to 3.4 million - so they probably bought their house for around a million. The biggest pain would be the taxes - i'd guess 25k+ a year easily

[Lady Calypso]

Hi everyone! Just a reminder, as was posted in another mod note a few posts up, to keep the discussion about the episode in this thread. Any discussions about outside topics, such as the characters' finances, should be taken elsewhere. Keep the conversation about the episode at hand. Thanks!

[PRgal]

I just wanted to say that this episode inspired me to give my son his first piano lesson!  Unfortunately, he preferred to…errr…improvise than pay attention.  Pretty normal behaviour for a 3 year old! 

[chabelisaywow]

On 2/1/2022 at 7:29 PM, Quickbeam said:

“Is that the little brother?”

I'm still stuck with this visual... "whose parakeet is that?"

[project90]

On 2/3/2022 at 3:30 AM, kitkat343 said:

 

 

A GED can be used for admission into a community college or bachelor's degree program.  If a student graduates from community college or a bachelor's degree program, then it doesn't matter if they had a GED or a high school diploma because all employers will look at is their college degree.  If they drop out or don't attend community college, then the fact that they have a GED makes it a little harder to find employment than if they had a high school diploma, since most jobs consider graduating from high school to be a sign of a more reliable worker because you need to be persistent and attend school to graduate from high school (or you did before they allowed online credit recovery).  

What this really could affect is her college admission prospects.  A highly selective college would wonder why a student would leave school early without graduating, and "to follow my boyfriend" is not a good answer.  She can absolutely get into a community college, and possibly a less selective 4 year school with a GED, but it would certainly lessen her chances of admission to a selective college straight after high school unless she was doing something more impressive than taking care of her boyfriend's kid.  But it certainly is possible for a student to enroll in a community college, do well, transfer to a 4 year school and then apply to med school.  In California there is a pathway for automatic transfer into UC Davis, Irvine, Merced, Riverside, Santa Barbara and Santa Cruz for students who do well in community college (You need to apply for admission now to UC Berkeley and UCLA).  

I taught in the NYC public school system, and had a student once drop out because she got rejected by all her top choice schools.  At the time  she figured that since the best college she was accepted to was City College, she might as well drop out, get her GED, work for the spring semester of her high school senior year because she'd get into City College with a GED anyway.  This was 20 years ago, and I don't know if City College has changed their admissions requirements, but back then her plan worked and she enrolled the following fall at City College with her GED and savings from her spring and summer employment.  I told her she'd be fine as long as she graduated from college.  She's in trouble if she doesn't, because statistically employers consider GED recipients to be closer to high school dropouts in terms of hiring.  I know she enrolled in college, but don't know if she finished.

 

Thank you for aĺl that super interesting and very helpful to understand plot bit better being someone who from Australia and doesn't understand American school system 

[debraran]

On 2/5/2022 at 6:34 PM, MissLucas said:

This!!! One of the few times the writers broke that exhausting mould was when they introduced Gregory (Timothy Omundsen) and I really miss him! He brought so much to Kate's story. Due to the discussion of the Pearsons having friends I did a mental tally and I think he's the only friend who has not ended up as a love interest.

And I swear I thought he would be! The English guy was a twist but made less sense to me.

Maybe he couldn't film but I miss him. The other scenes with Philip seem contrived now.

From one article :

It’s no surprise that many This Is Us fans were distraught by the Kate, Phillip, and Toby news after season 5. Going into season 6, Toby and Kate are still happily married. But it’s likely the final season will show KaToby unraveling and highlight Kate and Phillip’s new romance. 

When speaking with Entertainment Weekly ahead of the Jan. 4 premiere of This Is Us Season 6, creator Dan Fogelman hinted that the NBC drama will focus on Kate and Toby’s marriage before diving into anything romantic with Phillip. 

“We’re not picking up with Toby and Kate in complete marital crisis on the cusp of divorce. We owe a lot there,” Fogelman said. “But we’re going to live with Toby and Kate for quite a while. Disintegrations of marriages can be ugly often. They can be beautiful at times. They’re not just all one thing most of the time. We’re going to try to show that in all its colors.”

Then in a separate interview with Entertainment Weekly, Geere revealed that Kate and Phillip’s relationship will continue to be professional until it turns “at some point.” And while the actor was unable to confirm whether there was any cheating involved, Geere hinted that the relationship could be good for Kate.

“Whether that is connected with the collapse of the marriage to build up another, I don’t know,” Geere said. “But I do know that from that flash-forward scene, she ends up happy. So she’s not a bad relationship.”

 

 

[KittyQ]

In terms of Deja - she says she's "wise beyond her years" because of how her early life went, so her plan to move to Boston is reasonable. What she doesn't realize is that there's a difference between "wise" and "experienced", and she's "experienced beyond her years", but not mature enough to make such a significant change in her life at this point. Hopefully Randall and Beth can help her understand that there's no emergency here - her relationship with Malik can develop however it develops without her sacrificing the stable path she's on. Waiting a little time is not going to matter if the relationship can stand on its own. She's afraid it will fail with time and distance, and it might, but then it may not be meant to last.

[debraran]

13 hours ago, KittyQ said:

In terms of Deja - she says she's "wise beyond her years" because of how her early life went, so her plan to move to Boston is reasonable. What she doesn't realize is that there's a difference between "wise" and "experienced", and she's "experienced beyond her years", but not mature enough to make such a significant change in her life at this point. Hopefully Randall and Beth can help her understand that there's no emergency here - her relationship with Malik can develop however it develops without her sacrificing the stable path she's on. Waiting a little time is not going to matter if the relationship can stand on its own. She's afraid it will fail with time and distance, and it might, but then it may not be meant to last.

That's true you can be exposed to many things when young, but maturity? It ages you but just in one way. I know some women who had to practically bring up siblings, didn't make them really more mature in all ways, they knew how to cook, clean, help with homework but life decisions? No. My sister fancied herself mature at 19 and got married and realized her mature and older husband was bad news later and they really grew apart in many ways. She didn't really know herself at 19 and thought she'd "lose him" if she waited. That alone is trouble.

Edited February 19, 2022 by debraran