The View: Week of 1/31/2022

[TheGreenKnight]

2 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

It's still so weird that they put The VIew under the news division when none of them are journalists. I know others are jealous of the interviews the show gets but...come on now.

It shouldn't be. It used to be in Daytime. I think the co-hosts even joked on the show before about not understanding why their show is in the news division these days.

[deirdra]

I too was wondering how the nude cartoon mouse (Jew) in Maus could be considered offensive, but apparently there is more to it, not mentioned by any of ABC News division's co-hosts on The View. School Board members were also concerned that the nude mouse, representing Spiegelman’s mother, was depicted lying in a pool of her own blood after committing suicide. 

[maggiemae]

50 minutes ago, Axie said:

Waiting for a anti Whoopie tweet from a recent former cohost.

She wrote a whole article in her column...

[RealHousewife]

48 minutes ago, Axie said:

Thanks!  I missed it but have read it now!

No prob! 

FYI, Sunny does have a journalism degree. 

[General Days]

25 minutes ago, deirdra said:

I too was wondering how the nude cartoon mouse (Jew) in Maus could be considered offensive, but apparently there is more to it, not mentioned by any of ABC News division's co-hosts on The View. School Board members were also concerned that the nude mouse, representing Spiegelman’s mother, was depicted lying in a pool of her own blood after committing suicide. 

It isn't a nude mouse in the Maus graphic novel. It's a drawing of a dead, nude human woman in a bathtub. It's a non-erotic, (and not particularly detailed) black and white sketch. 

During the discussion on The View, I did not get the impression that any of the co-hosts had a thorough understanding of Maus. In my opinion, that is the fault of the producers, who do not properly prep them.

The non-fiction comic centers on cartoonist Spiegelman interviewing his father about his experiences as a Polish Jew and Holocaust survivor. In the scenes about WWII, the Jewish people are drawn as mice, and the Nazis are cats (and other groups are other animals). 

The scene with the naked dead woman in the tub is a sketch of Spiegelman's mother, who, as you said, did die of suicide.

Here's more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maus

 

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by General Days

[maggiemae]

Let's remember the only co-host that does not come in for the before show meeting is Whoopi. Perhaps skids in late.

OTOH - if she does - it is all the others that have the cards or teleprompter.

Whoopi likes to pontificate and yell she needs more time to do so before commercial.

Edited February 2, 2022 by maggiemae

[MsTree]

To the Whoopi apologists...people have been fired for much less. Being ignorant or under-educated in no excuse. If one doesn't know what one is talking about, then shut the hell up!!

Whoopi IS a bully...and suspending her for 2 weeks is akin to a slap on the wrist, as this isn't the first time she's invoked her ignorant comments while the other panel members are shut down. The rape/rape & Cosby comments were just the beginning.

Whether she was malicious or not bears no meaning. A nervous laugh (not malicious IMO) during an awkward interview was all it took to get Billy Bush fired. And a stupid, ignorant comment (also not malicious) during another interview about race got Chris Harrison fired. So what's so special about Whoopi? 

[AusTvWatcher]

19 minutes ago, MsTree said:

To the Whoopi apologists...people have been fired for much less. Being ignorant or under-educated in no excuse. If one doesn't know what one is talking about, then shut the hell up!!

Whoopi IS a bully...and suspending her for 2 weeks is akin to a slap on the wrist, as this isn't the first time she's invoked her ignorant comments while the other panel members are shut down. The rape/rape & Cosby comments were just the beginning.

Whether she was malicious or not bears no meaning. A nervous laugh (not malicious IMO) during an awkward interview was all it took to get Billy Bush fired. And a stupid, ignorant comment (also not malicious) during another interview about race got Chris Harrison fired. So what's so special about Whoopi? 

I don’t think there is a carbon copy situation you can just apply to anyone who makes a comment they regret. 
Each situation is different and saying “they did this to someone, they should do it to her” 

You are talking about a different situation, a show, a company, personnel, etc. for all we know the other situations had further or underlying reasons behind what was made public. 
 

We can all speculate but at the end of the day we  aren’t experts in this. 

[RealHousewife]

27 minutes ago, MsTree said:

To the Whoopi apologists...people have been fired for much less. Being ignorant or under-educated in no excuse. If one doesn't know what one is talking about, then shut the hell up!!

Whoopi IS a bully...and suspending her for 2 weeks is akin to a slap on the wrist, as this isn't the first time she's invoked her ignorant comments while the other panel members are shut down. The rape/rape & Cosby comments were just the beginning.

Whether she was malicious or not bears no meaning. A nervous laugh (not malicious IMO) during an awkward interview was all it took to get Billy Bush fired. And a stupid, ignorant comment (also not malicious) during another interview about race got Chris Harrison fired. So what's so special about Whoopi? 

I'll chime in as a Whoopi apologist . . .

IRC, Billy Bush did a little more than nervously laugh. Can't discuss that situation in detail because of the person it involves. That said, I didn't think the punishment fit the crime. 

I still make fun of the infamous interview between Chris Harrison and Rachel Lindsay. "The racist party was in 2018, it was forever ago! We look at everything in a totally different lens now!" hahahaha, sure Chris. I was still against his firing though. 

I'm pretty consistent with being forgiving if I don't see malice. No one is perfect. The people I want to see loose their jobs are criminals, blatantly racist, or raging bitches.

[MsTree]

3 minutes ago, AusTvWatcher said:

I don’t think there is a carbon copy situation you can just apply to anyone who makes a comment they regret. 
Each situation is different and saying “they did this to someone, they should do it to her” 

You are talking about a different situation, a show, a company, personnel, etc. for all we know the other situations had further or underlying reasons behind what was made public. 
 

We can all speculate but at the end of the day we  aren’t experts in this. 

No speculation here. The examples stated actually happened, and I was watching as they both aired.  I never specifically said she should be cancelled. I merely said "what's so special" about her...talking about what basically amounts to slap on the wrist considering what others have endured.

[AusTvWatcher]

2 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I'll chime in as a Whoopi apologist . . .

IRC, Billy Bush did a little more than nervously laugh. Can't discuss that situation in detail because of the person it involves. That said, I didn't think the punishment fit the crime. 

I still make fun of the infamous interview between Chris Harrison and Rachel Lindsay. "The racist party was in 2018, it was forever ago! We look at everything in a totally different lens now!" hahahaha, sure Chris. I was still against his firing though. 

I'm pretty consistent with being forgiving if I don't see malice. No one is perfect. The people I want to see loose their jobs are criminals, blatantly racist, or raging bitches.

Agree with you here. However some are so quick to jump on a bandwagon and call for fire on people at any opportunity. 
 

We have all made mistakes, and it’s life 

[Back Atcha]

On 2/1/2022 at 9:45 PM, General Days said:

I think Whoopi was dead wrong in what she said Monday, but due to a lack of understanding and education, not hatred.

I don't think that most of Whoopi's wrong-wrong-wrong pronouncements are a result of hatred.  They are, however, generally rude "corrections" of the other co-hosts.  She always KNOWS BETTER.  She shuts them down in an unkind manner too often.  She's ignorant YET "all knowing" on too many topics.  I'd bet each panelist is more educated than Ms. Goldberg--formally and not.  Because Whoopi thinks she knows everything, there's no reason for her to search for information.  (Until now, most of the panelists either give up or are talked over until taken to a commercial.  Perhaps things can change!)

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Back Atcha

[MsTree]

3 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I'll chime in as a Whoopi apologist . . .

IRC, Billy Bush did a little more than nervously laugh. Can't discuss that situation in detail because of the person it involves. That said, I didn't think the punishment fit the crime. 

I still make fun of the infamous interview between Chris Harrison and Rachel Lindsay. "The racist party was in 2018, it was forever ago! We look at everything in a totally different lens now!" hahahaha, sure Chris. I was still against his firing though. 

I'm pretty consistent with being forgiving if I don't see malice. No one is perfect. The people I want to see loose their jobs are criminals, blatantly racist, or raging bitches.

Understand your POV, but this isn't Whoopi's first rodeo taking an ignorant stand. Her awkward stands also revolve around the same subject (can't discuss that either), but each time the other members of the panel seemed like "HUH?"

In my book, once is a mistake, twice is riding the suspension line...and just like baseball, three strikes, you're out.

[Back Atcha]

On 2/1/2022 at 11:51 PM, MsTree said:

To the Whoopi apologists...people have been fired for much less. Being ignorant or under-educated in no excuse. If one doesn't know what one is talking about, then shut the hell up!!

That's the biggest problem with The View (aka ABC and Disney).  Too often Whoopi doesn't have most details when she's spouting off--putting down/correcting other panelists who DO know!  They all know who has the power, so they end up backing down.  Maybe things will be different.

On 2/1/2022 at 11:51 PM, MsTree said:

Whoopi IS a bully...and suspending her for 2 weeks is akin to a slap on the wrist, as this isn't the first time she's invoked her ignorant comments while the other panel members are shut down. The rape/rape & Cosby comments were just the beginning.

She's definitely a BULLY--probably a lifelong affliction.  Don't forget that when most were chastising Mel Gibson, she was in his corner because he's always been nice to HER!  I hope we can see a real change in attitude from now on.  I was an avid watcher, but the Zoom-ish programs left a lot to be desired--especially with Whoopi trying to moderate.  I was gradually slipping away...still might.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Back Atcha

[Ellis Bell]

I still don't know why Barbara decided to give Whoopi the moderator's seat.  She is woefully uninformed on so many topics. (Anyone remember her master class on health insurance?  Lol.) 

As others have mentioned she has been vocal and supportive of Gibson, Polanski, Vick and Cosby.  It's fine to take the opposite view in order to stimulate debate but she was adamant in defending her position.  I believe in part it's because she was cancelled a few decades ago.  Barbara gave her a break - she had not booked a gig for five years. So she's very defensive of those who are piled on in the press.  But still, common sense and common decency should prevail.  I mean come on, who the hell defends a man who vaginally and anally penetrated a 13-year-old girl?  "...rape, rape."  

As for this latest dust-up, I think it highlights the fact she is not suited for the job.  To me, she looks like she just shows up each day wanders onto the set and sits her ass in the chair, woefully unprepared, yet still thinks she can wing it.  And this is the result.

[MsTree]

Bravo Ellis Bell!!!  I couldn't have said any better. Thank you.

[RealHousewife]

 

9 minutes ago, Ellis Bell said:

II mean come on, who the hell defends a man who vaginally and anally penetrated a 13-year-old girl?  "...rape, rape."  

Sadly, much of Hollywood did. I was just posting about that the other day. 

Wednesday’s episode should be interesting . . .

[SuzieSioux]

1 hour ago, Ellis Bell said:

I mean come on, who the hell defends a man who vaginally and anally penetrated a 13-year-old girl?  "...rape, rape."

 

47 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Sadly, much of Hollywood did. I was just posting about that the other day.

Yep. Only a few months back, I read Sigourney Weaver talking about how she would still love to work with Polanski and making excuses for him for what he did.

[Spartan Girl]

It really feels like a double standard compared to how many times SWMNBN got suspended (none).

[Haleth]

9 hours ago, Miss Slay said:

Am I the only one who thinks suspension is an overreaction?

In my opinion it was an overreaction, especially 2 weeks!  She apologized, they had a good discussion on the show, they should move on.  At worst let her sit out the rest of the week.  2 weeks seems excessive for a statement that wasn't meant to be anti Jewish.   

9 hours ago, Buckeye71034 said:

I have a feeling Whoopi didn't like having to apologize on air and made a big fuss behind the scenes which caused the suspension

That could be.  

[ifionlyknew]

Just now, Haleth said:

In my opinion it was an overreaction, especially 2 weeks!  She apologized, they had a good discussion on the show, they should move on.  At worst let her sit out the rest of the week.  2 weeks seems excessive for a statement that wasn't meant to be anti Jewish.   

Meanwhile people who are anti-Semitic not only keep their jobs but those jobs are in positions of authority.  

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

It really feels like a double standard compared to how many times SWMNBN got suspended (none).

That is my biggest issue with this.  She said things that were so much worse with the intent of being hateful.

4 hours ago, Ellis Bell said:

I think it highlights the fact she is not suited for the job.  To me, she looks like she just shows up each day wanders onto the set and sits her ass in the chair, woefully unprepared, yet still thinks she can wing it.  And this is the result.

This is absolutely true.  Maybe they are using this as a way of letting her go with cause so they don't have to pay out her contract.

4 hours ago, Ellis Bell said:

I still don't know why Barbara decided to give Whoopi the moderator's seat.  She is woefully uninformed on so many topics.

It's my understanding Barbara wanted to replace Rosie O with a big name.  Now why she made  her moderator I have no idea.  Maybe it's what Whoopi insisted on.

5 hours ago, Back Atcha said:

Don't forget that when most were chastising Mel Gibson, she was in his corner because he's always been nice to HER! 

I thought about that after her mischaracterization of the Holocaust.  She is always so quick to defend celebs when they get into trouble.  I doubt we will see too many celebs defending her though.

 

[Jeanius]

It isn’t just that Whoopi presented her point of view. She shut down the others when they tried to speak. She didn’t allow their views the same weight as hers. That doesn’t seem to be how a moderator should lead a discussion. On top of that, her lack of education is glaringly obvious. I am not interested in watching a show where people are praised merely for having a kind heart. I know plenty of kind-hearted and ignorant people. Whoopi remains ignorant and I don’t think she is capable of real growth in that department because deep down she believes she really IS the all-knowing sage.

On a side note, I haven’t watched in a while and I was shocked at how bloated she looked. She didn’t look particularly healthy and maybe some time off would be good for her. 

[Yeah No]

I don't even watch this show but Whoopi has annoyed me several times already with her views.  It's obvious to me that she is buying into the ideology that only black people can be victims of racism.  When white people clash it can't possibly be about racism because to her racism is only about skin color.  I am very disappointed that someone so aware and intelligent as she supposedly is would believe that.  But even worse is that she in particular has no excuse for believing that especially where Jews are concerned.  She is a native New Yorker so she should be no stranger to Jews and have at least a rudimentary grasp of the Holocaust.  The extermination of the Jews was not just white people clashing but ethnic genocide.  Anyone with one ounce of knowledge about the Holocaust should know that, especially a native NYer who is as intelligent as she is.  Plus in light of this that she would take on the name "Goldberg", which is a common Jewish name makes it even worse.  So no apologetics from me, she has no excuse.

[Yeah No]

10 hours ago, General Days said:

Not all bigotry, ethnic, or religious prejudice is racism.

Although I know and agree Nazism is a racist ideology, I do not, in my day-to-day conversation, call anti-Jewish bigotry and hatred "racism"; I call it antiSemitism.

That doesn't minimize it in comparison. It's just a more specific term. While race is a social construct, I'm not in the habit of using Nazi definitions as my own.

I wouldn't call American WASPS' oppression and marginalization of Irish, Italian, and Polish immigrants "racism," I'd call it bigotry, because it's not racism, and it is bigotry. 

I think Whoopi was dead wrong in what she said Monday, but due to a lack of understanding and education, not hatred. Unless she was horrible behind the scenes, in some way we haven't heard about, suspending her for two weeks — after she offered a full-throated apology, and listened to, accepted, and affirmed the correction that ADL's CEO Jonathan Greenblatt graciously offered — the suspension seems excessive.

I don't agree with you where Jews are concerned.  Jews were seen as an inferior RACE.  It was all about genetics.  It wasn't about what country you were from, what religion you practiced, what nationality you were, it was about your RACE if you were a Jew.  It was about GENETICS to the Nazis, not that they even understood anything about that but that is just a fact.  You weren't even seen as "white" or "Caucasian" to them.  In fact even as humans they were considered inferior, not even human.  It doesn't matter that they were wrong about that, it's what they believed.  So in my view that is definitely RACISM, not just "bigotry".  Any kind of word semantics to get around that is in my opinion minimizing that fact.  And that's just the thing about racism.  We are all the same under our skins and now DNA is showing even more how similar and interrelated we all are so this business about racism only being about skin color and everything else is just "bigotry" is in my opinion missing the point big time.

[General Days]

23 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I don't agree with you where Jews are concerned.  Jews were seen as an inferior RACE.  It was all about genetics.  It wasn't about what country you were from, what religion you practiced, what nationality you were, it was about your RACE if you were a Jew.  It was about GENETICS to the Nazis, not that they even understood anything about that but that is just a fact.  You weren't even seen as "white" or "Caucasian" to them.  In fact even as humans they were considered inferior, not even human.  It doesn't matter that they were wrong about that, it's what they believed.  So in my view that is definitely RACISM, not just "bigotry".  Any kind of word semantics to get around that is in my opinion minimizing that fact.  And that's just the thing about racism.  We are all the same under our skins and now DNA is showing even more how similar and interrelated we all are so this business about racism only being about skin color and everything else is just "bigotry" is in my opinion missing the point big time.

Did you even read my comment that you both quoted and mischaracterized, above? It's a little weird to be called out as if I ignored or denied something I both understand and specified.

 

11 hours ago, General Days said:

Although I know and agree Nazism is a racist ideology, I do not, in my day-to-day conversation, call anti-Jewish bigotry and hatred "racism"; I call it antiSemitism.

[...]

I think Whoopi was dead wrong in what she said Monday, but due to a lack of understanding and education, not hatred. 

 

I only excerpted the parts of my prior post that specifically discussed the issue at hand. 

The sentence I did not put in bold font above, just acknowledges the language I typically use. It was not intended as a denial that Nazi antisemitism is a racist ideology. It clearly is.

Edited February 2, 2022 by General Days

[StaceyNotStacie]

1 hour ago, Jeanius said:

 

On a side note, I haven’t watched in a while and I was shocked at how bloated she looked. She didn’t look particularly healthy and maybe some time off would be good for her. 

I think she mentioned a while back that she was taking steroids for her sciatica. 

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, General Days said:

Did you even read my comment that you both quoted and mischaracterized, above? It's a little weird to be called out as if I ignored or denied something I both understand and specified.

Yes, I did read your post and I did understand what you said, but I think anti-Semitism is too weak a word for Nazism or their ideology re: the Holocaust.  Any terminology that doesn't call it out as racism is not enough in my opinion.  Obviously it's not enough if people like Whoopi can make such comments.

And BTW, I don't agree with you about WASP oppression of the Irish and Italians in particular being simply "bigotry".  It is on record even in newspapers of the time that they were characterized and treated as sub human at various times when they first started immigrating to the US.  Italians were lynched in the South along with Blacks.  Even to this day white supremacists equate Sicilians with Sub Saharan Africans in the sub human department despite DNA evidence showing that most Sicilians have zero to trace amounts of Sub Saharan African in them.  It doesn't matter that they're wrong, it's what they choose to believe that makes it racism, not just "bigotry".  Bigotry is about prejudice but this goes way beyond prejudice.  

Edited February 2, 2022 by Yeah No
clarification.

[Haleth]

Snowmageddon is imminent so the show has been preempted for a while so the gov can tell us it’s going to snow. Can someone please let me know how the panel addressed Whoopi’s suspension?

[JayD83]

Just now, Haleth said:

Snowmageddon is imminent so the show has been preempted for a while so the gov can tell us it’s going to snow. Can someone please let me know how the panel addressed Whoopi’s suspension?

Joy said [paraphrasing] You all saw the news, Whoopi will be back in 2 weeks.  Now, on to hot topics. 

[Bronzedog]

I don’t think Whoopi’s ego will allow her to come back to the show.

[JayD83]

26 minutes ago, Bronzedog said:

I don’t think Whoopi’s ego will allow her to come back to the show.

 

This seems like one of those 'reboot the show' seasons of The View.  I read the Joy was leaving at the end of the season too.  This show may look very different in the Fall. 

[TheGreenKnight]

12 hours ago, MsTree said:

To the Whoopi apologists...people have been fired for much less.

Well, no offense, but I think your comment works in reverse, too. I am not a Whoopi fan at all, but my dislike is mostly because of her assholey behavior towards other co-hosts over the years and how she stifles discussion sometimes. But I'm well-aware that there are many Whoopi haters who have a politically-geared reason for wanting to overdramatize this situation and for her to be taken down, and it has nothing to do with her mistaken comments themselves.

I know that because I've seen the same people come out of the woodwork whenever Joy is in trouble over something, for example. They don't care about the event itself or whether they're really wrong or not, they hated them already. They'd be fine with a well-known leftwing figure being taken out by any means necessary.

[ifionlyknew]

12 minutes ago, TheGreenKnight said:

I know that because I've seen the same people come out of the woodwork whenever Joy is in trouble over something, for example. They don't care about the event itself or whether they're really wrong or not, they hated them already. They'd be fine with a well-known leftwing figure being taken out by any means necessary.

Let's not forget this is happening to Whoopi because a school decided to ban some books.  If not for that they would not have been discussing that particular book and the Holocaust.  So Whoopi being suspended just made a lot of people happy.  For them this is just a cherry on top of them banning books.

[Mldyold]

I see a Human Resource plan in how this was handled and I think it is good for all involved.

I watched the Colbert interview and didn't think she had changed her mind from the morning show.  One might imagine Tuesday morning when the powers to be called her in and said this is how we want to handle this and she agreed.  She got her chance to apologize on air and the guest was able to clarify the concerns and let's not forget the apology online.  Now she gets a paid two week vacation and the media lets her faux pas disappear.   Meanwhile a news items was put out that her cohorts are upset that this was the way it was handled which shows their support for Whoopie.

I don't anticipate her beliefs or moderator style will change when she returns.  Again JMHO.

[tinkerbell]

I haven't been watching every episode, but after seeing Whoopi on Colbert, I decided to take a look at what she said.  To me, the issue wasn't so much that Whoopi said the holocaust was "not about race".  It was that, as moderator, she repeated that same line several times, over the other hosts who were trying to explain to her why she was wrong.   Her unwillingness to listen to another point of view, while repeating "it's not about race!"  was the problem.  She had the opportunity to learn from her co-hosts, but she had no interest in listening, just in pontificating about her point of view.   

The expert coming on the show Tuesday basically said what Joy and Sunny and Anna were trying to say on Monday.  

The whole thing would not have blown up the way it did had Whoopi been able to assume the moderator position and have a discussion.  
I also realize that the time was running out, she was being told to cut to commercial, and the format of the show is such that intelligent discussion on important issues are next to impossible.  Introduce a news topic, each person gets a soundbyte, then 18 commercials, then a lighter topic, 18 commercials, then a celebrity, etc.  

[Back Atcha]

10 hours ago, AusTvWatcher said:

We can all speculate but at the end of the day we aren’t experts in this. 

Can you IMAGINE Whoopi's saying anything similar about herself?

[Back Atcha]

Just now, tinkerbell said:

She had the opportunity to learn from her co-hosts, but she had no interest in listening, just in pontificating about her point of view.   

And THIS is the Everyday Whoopi viewers see...every day!

1 minute ago, tinkerbell said:

I also realize that the time was running out, she was being told to cut to commercial,

Through varioius miracles, Whoopi is allowed to continue HER points--yet happily cuts off others due to "commercial break."

[Back Atcha]

50 minutes ago, TheGreenKnight said:

I am not a Whoopi fan at all, but my dislike is mostly because of her assholey behavior towards other co-hosts over the years and how she stifles discussion sometimes. But I'm well-aware that there are many Whoopi haters who have a politically-geared reason for wanting to overdramatize this situation and for her to be taken down, and it has nothing to do with her mistaken comments themselves.

My bolding...because that's EXACTLY what I think.  I don't like Whoopi because of the way she treats others--the way she EXPECTS her opinion (and persona) to be the be-all and end-all.  No questions; no disagreements.  I wouldn't have developed that opinion if she had NOT been on The View.  I'm usually complimentary when I see her work as an actor.

[Back Atcha]

12 hours ago, maggiemae said:

13 hours ago, Axie said:

Waiting for a anti Whoopie tweet from a recent former cohost.

She wrote a whole article in her column...

Uhhh....talk about ignorant.  That's ME!  Which recent former cohost?

[Back Atcha]

On 1/31/2022 at 9:14 AM, Spartan Girl said:

On 1/31/2022 at 9:07 AM, Haleth said:

Do they seriously believe Joe Rogan is sorry about what he says?  They believe that was a sincere apology?  

That wasn’t an apology. It wasn’t even an acknowledgement that he did anything wrong.

Just think, only three days ago, there was this "apology" discussion.   

[Black Knight]

I know this is a hot topic, but remember that this is the thread for The View week of 1/31. Discussion of Goldberg's comments this week and anti-Semitism in relation to her comments is fine; the general discussion of other racism is currently off-topic unless it comes up in other episodes this week. Thanks.

[Back Atcha]

On 1/31/2022 at 2:28 PM, Welshman in Ca said:

And Sunny needs to stick to being a lawyer, not everything is about race.

Sarah should stick to hosting the Chase, let someone else dress her, she's not good at it if she chooses her own clothes.

Joy should just retire. she's just a squawking mess who thinks the loudest person is always right.

Anna should stick to whatever it is she does because at the moment she's making the most sense.

And...THREE outta FOUR ain't bad!

[HerkyJerky]

9 minutes ago, Back Atcha said:

And...THREE outta FOUR ain't bad!

Is this a new MeatLoaf song being released posthumously?😏

[After7Only]

 

5 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I don't even watch this show but Whoopi has annoyed me several times already with her views.  It's obvious to me that she is buying into the ideology that only black people can be victims of racism.  When white people clash it can't possibly be about racism because to her racism is only about skin color.

I watch pretty regularly, and Whoopi has strongly supported victims of racism (black, Asian, Mexican, immigrant, etc), bigotry, anti-semitism, anti-Muslim on this show.   She actually rarely talks exclusively about anti-black racism unless the topic is specifically about that.        

What Whoopi said was wrong on multiple levels.  Full stop.   I also believe Whoopi's point in this discussion was that racism, bigotry, etc are all equally horrible things.  While she was incorrect to not consider Jews as a race, there really is not a hierarchy of of prejudices.   Based on the discussion at the time and plenty of examples of discussions in the past, she was not trying to downplay or negate the experience of Jews.   Or imply that their experience was better/worse than Black American racism.   

Edited February 2, 2022 by After7Only

[ForumLou]

13 hours ago, General Days said:

 

Not all bigotry, ethnic, or religious prejudice is racism.

Although I know and agree Nazism is a racist ideology, I do not, in my day-to-day conversation, call anti-Jewish bigotry and hatred "racism"; I call it antiSemitism.

That doesn't minimize it in comparison. It's just a more specific term. While race is a social construct, I'm not in the habit of using Nazi definitions as my own.

I wouldn't call American WASPS' oppression and marginalization of Irish, Italian, and Polish immigrants "racism," I'd call it bigotry, because it's not racism, and it is bigotry. 

I think Whoopi was dead wrong in what she said Monday, but due to a lack of understanding and education, not hatred. Unless she was horrible behind the scenes, in some way we haven't heard about, suspending her for two weeks — after she offered a full-throated apology, and listened to, accepted, and affirmed the correction that ADL's CEO Jonathan Greenblatt graciously offered — the suspension seems excessive.

You put that so well. total agreement.  I wonder if she'll come back and give her notice.  Hope not.  Just say No Whoop!

[Back Atcha]

1 minute ago, HerkyJerky said:

11 minutes ago, Back Atcha said:

And...THREE outta FOUR ain't bad!

Is this a new MeatLoaf song being released posthumously?😏

Awwww....I LOVE (loved) Meat Loaf (and I'm 81!!).  I was working part-time at our local HUGE university and went into the Memorial Union for lunch...late 1970s.  Up on a big screen a video showed this FAT/SWEATY/MESSY guy and I just stood there mesmerized.  I assume I sat down and some point and watched the VERY LONG "Paradise by the Dashboard Light."  Instand and lifelong fan!   Awww....

[RealHousewife]

1 hour ago, TheGreenKnight said:

Well, no offense, but I think your comment works in reverse, too. I am not a Whoopi fan at all, but my dislike is mostly because of her assholey behavior towards other co-hosts over the years and how she stifles discussion sometimes. But I'm well-aware that there are many Whoopi haters who have a politically-geared reason for wanting to overdramatize this situation and for her to be taken down, and it has nothing to do with her mistaken comments themselves.

I know that because I've seen the same people come out of the woodwork whenever Joy is in trouble over something, for example. They don't care about the event itself or whether they're really wrong or not, they hated them already. They'd be fine with a well-known leftwing figure being taken out by any means necessary.

This reminds me of people who are blatantly racist or dismissive of racism but love to bring up Joy doing "black face."

[GHScorpiosRule]

What had my jaw dropping today was Sunny not even considering the feelings of RAPE VICTIMS carrying and having to birth their RAPIST’S  baby. She prefaced her opinion about how she prosecuted rapists, but instead of trying to speak for victims, agreed with that politician because she met children of rape who turned out to be “good people.”

And couldn’t look in the camera when saying all this. Kept her eyes looking down at the table.

[HerkyJerky]

52 minutes ago, Back Atcha said:

I was working part-time at our local HUGE university and went into the Memorial Union for lunch...late 1970s. 

Where did you go to college, Back Atcha?  I assume you can tell where I went to college by my name and icon.

[General Days]

3 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I think even calling it anti-Semitism is too weak a word.  Any terminology that doesn't call it out as racism is not enough in my opinion.  Obviously it's not enough if people like Whoopi can make such comments.

 

Generally, I neither see nor intend in my use of "antisemitism" as a weaker word than "racism," just a more specific one (which I also indicated in the first post with which you took issue). 

When speaking of the Holocaust, and or Nazi (and neo-Nazi) ideology, I heartily agree "racism" is an entirely appropriate word. Whoopi was wrong. Her co-hosts were right to correct her. She was wrong not to listen to them. It was also good of Jonathan Greenblatt to appear yesterday, and explain where Whoopi went wrong.

Again, Whoopi was dead wrong, on Monday. And as you say, using the word "racism" will help people (like Whoopi) better understand that the Nazis labeled Jewish people a subhuman race, then committed genocide based on that racism.

 

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And BTW, I don't agree with you about WASP oppression of the Irish and Italians in particular.  It is on record even in newspapers of the time that they were characterized and treated as sub human at various times when they first started immigrating to the US.  Italians were lynched in the South along with Blacks.  

 

It's interesting that you mention that, because part of the reason I both think Whoopi was dead wrong on Monday's show, and that -- in the wake of two apologies and the segment with ADL's Jonathan Greenblatt -- the suspension may have been excessive, is because I think I get where Whoopi was coming from. (Note: my family's ancestry is Irish, Italian, and WASP.)

1. Typically, Jewish people do not self-identify as a race, probably, at least in part, because of not only Nazi antisemitic racism, but also 2000 years of antisemitism. They identify as a people, a culture, with ties to the religion of Judaism (but there are plenty of Jewish agnostics and Jewish atheists, who still identify as Jews, and are recognized by other Jewish people as such, because of their family).

2. As she is a Black American woman, Whoopi has certainly heard all kinds of false equivalencies between the Black experience in America and a given white ethnic group's experience in America, even as it pertains to heinous oppression experienced by that white ethnic group.

When I was watching Monday's show, it seemed to me she lost the plot, because she had a knee-jerk reaction to the word "race" being used (even though that use was correct) in The View panel's discussion of banning Maus. And I think she probably had that reaction, because, for instance, she has seen b.s. like the conflation of Irish indentured servitude with chattel slavery, when that is a white supremacist disinformation narrative, known as the Irish slaves myth.

3. And, Whoopi surely knows if a young man from Cork was walking down the streets of Boston, he wouldn't have been identifiable as an unfree person, due to solely the color of his skin -- not true of young man from the Angola, walking down the streets of Charleston. What Whoopi maybe didn't know or remember is that Nazis differentiated between mixed heritage people who looked "too Jewish" and those who could pass.

 

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Even to this day white supremacists equate Sicilians with Sub Saharan Africans in the sub human department despite DNA evidence showing that most Sicilians have zero to trace amounts of Sub Saharan African in them.  It doesn't matter that they're wrong, it's what they choose to believe that makes it racism, not just "bigotry".  Bigotry is about prejudice but this goes way beyond prejudice.  

 

I think this is where the conversation goes further than board rules allow, so I'll bow out after this. I understand your point, because you're looking at it from the perspective of how white supremacists view race and ethnicity.

I think words/terms like bigotry, ethnic prejudice, and religious prejudice carry more weight with me, than with you. I don't view them as racism-lite, just other ancestry-related, but distinct types of hate, and their legacy in the US is also bad, yet different than that of U.S. anti-Black racism.

And, of course, all of those forms of hatred, bigotry, and racism differ from the racism, internment, torture, abuse, and murder that Jewish Europeans experienced at the hands of the Nazis.

 

1 hour ago, tinkerbell said:

I haven't been watching every episode, but after seeing Whoopi on Colbert, I decided to take a look at what she said.  To me, the issue wasn't so much that Whoopi said the holocaust was "not about race".  It was that, as moderator, she repeated that same line several times, over the other hosts who were trying to explain to her why she was wrong.   Her unwillingness to listen to another point of view, while repeating "it's not about race!"  was the problem.  She had the opportunity to learn from her co-hosts, but she had no interest in listening, just in pontificating about her point of view.   

The expert coming on the show Tuesday basically said what Joy and Sunny and Anna were trying to say on Monday.  

 

I think the repetition did not help Whoopi, neither did the Colbert appearance (which was taped before her written apology, but aired after she released the apology), because she unnecessarily compounded her own error, every time she refused to consider the facts other people tried so hard to present to her.