Figure Skating

[SeanC]

32 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

As if I needed to fall even deeper into the figure skating rabbit hole than I already have, this is a really excellent analysis of the pre-rotation that we see in the quads of Valieva (and also Nathan Chen to a slightly lesser degree). 

Nathan doesn't have noticeable prerotation. His picking technique is excellent. Some prerotation is normal for basically every jump (indeed, for most of them you literally couldn't do the jump without it), even the Lutz, though there are a few people who actually manage to have basically none on the latter (Hanyu and Yuna Kim being notable cases).

[Bliss]

10 hours ago, Daisy said:

This is so sad. Canada won't win a medal for the first time since 1980. and I really don't think our future looks bright :(  

Strange, since many of the top skaters in the world train in Canada - Toronto, Montreal, Oakville, etc.

[Tippi]

Going from memory here: Michelle tried triple toe-triple toe at 2002 Olympics and two footed the second triple.

[Enero]

53 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

We need some girls to stay in the sport and be publicized, not torn down because they can't compete with the current crop of Russian pre-teens. When Mariah Bell won Nationals and gets called "ancient" in the US media, all that tells the audience is that she's past her prime and can't stand up to the Russians. The Russian media is currently holding up Valieva as a "hero" despite all the controversy swirling around her and the mess that her FS was, while we're going on about why we can't get an American woman on the podium. How profiles are framed is really important. Nathan Chen benefited after Pyeongchang by being referred to as the "Quad King" even after his failure. Highlighting the positive attributes of the US women skaters (artistry, strength, charm, etc) instead of their faults will certainly help with marketing the sport.

Honestly I don’t think just promoting our ladies, who are not winning competitions,will suffice either. The bottom line is the popularity of a sport is synonymous with winners. Hanyu would not be Hanyu if he’d not won two OGM medals, numerous world medals and stuck at or near the top of the sport for 8 years. Russia and Asia seems to have no qualms about men being figure skaters, unlike the U.S., which helps too.

As someone said up thread, the U.S. needs at least 2-3 rockstar ladies figure skater who are consistently winning the international events and is around for at least an Olympic cycle or two.  I think that MAY get people interested again. The generations that would’ve been heavily inspired by Kwan and/or Cohen would be reaching the senior levels by now or should’ve already reached that level and obviously none of them are medal contenders. So a new crop of skaters will have to inspire little girls (and their parents) to go into skating. 

I will add, that the cheating at these Games will not help the sport. I mean who wants to spend ten of thousands of dollars a year on their kid training for a sport that’s rigged and has a governing body who does nothing about it? Gymnastics and other sports, at this point, are a more appealing option, cause at least right now the US has had numerous women over the last several years be at the top of that sport. There have been no situations were known cheaters were allowed to compete. The diversity is so much better than FS. And there is a path in gymnastics and other Summer sports from high school (for some), to college, to National/International circuit to the Olympics. Which results in the athlete (and their parents) potentially getting a much better ROI from the sport than FS.

BOT - Congrats to Sui/Han. They won by the skin of their teeth but they won. I may watch the replay of their performance later. Or perhaps it’s up on YouTube which will be even better.  

Edited February 19, 2022 by Enero

[Sarahsmile416]

1 hour ago, Hana Chan said:

As if I needed to fall even deeper into the figure skating rabbit hole than I already have, this is a really excellent analysis of the pre-rotation that we see in the quads of Valieva (and also Nathan Chen to a slightly lesser degree). 

He's definitely calling out the judging as being the major problem, because if bad technique and pre-rotation is not penalized, then skaters will keep doing it. 

It’s interesting that he is saying this before the news that she was doping…I’d be interested in hearing whether his opinion on her jumping and the ease at which she does her jumps would be different now.  

I agree with him about not blaming the skaters for all the pre-rotations, but what’s more irritating is that, as I understand it, all Eteri skaters have a higher degree of Pre-rotation than the vast majority - and the fact that judges a) ignore it and b) sometimes actually give them higher GOE’s than skaters who don’t Pre-rotate to the same degree is absolutely criminal.  If they would actually count off for pre-rotation, Eteri would probably lose her mind

[Lady Whistleup]

1 hour ago, Hana Chan said:

 

We need some girls to stay in the sport and be publicized, not torn down because they can't compete with the current crop of Russian pre-teens. When Mariah Bell won Nationals and gets called "ancient" in the US media, all that tells the audience is that she's past her prime and can't stand up to the Russians. The Russian media is currently holding up Valieva as a "hero" despite all the controversy swirling around her and the mess that her FS was, while we're going on about why we can't get an American woman on the podium. How profiles are framed is really important. Nathan Chen benefited after Pyeongchang by being referred to as the "Quad King" even after his failure. Highlighting the positive attributes of the US women skaters (artistry, strength, charm, etc) instead of their faults will certainly help with marketing the sport.

I disagree with this. I don't think "she finished 12th, but wow, nice layback spin" is going to market figure skating in the US. To be blunt, any sport needs winners to market the sport. Nathan Chen, Davis/White, both did a lot marketing the sport. But the US women are (and no offense to them) not medal contenders even if there weren't the Big Bad Russians. They'd all fall behind the Japanese and Korean women as well. 

The US women need to be more consistent as well. As much as Karen Chen seems to be a nice person, has she ever put together two clean b2b programs?

[Daisy]

50 minutes ago, Bliss said:

Strange, since many of the top skaters in the world train in Canada - Toronto, Montreal, Oakville, etc.

well i kind of touched on that during the Men's. like all of these medal contenders skaters train in Canada with Canadian coaches. a lot of the really great choreographers are Canadian. how is it that Canadian skaters just fell off the turnip truck so hard.  and just reading about it, none of them juniors are really expected to do much at the senior level (probably just do well enough to qualify a team or two at worlds, and the next Olympics in Italy, and that's it. we show up and we're window dressing). 

I know (now) Orser  is kinda picky with whom he takes as students and all but it's just still... mindboggling. 

[Sarahsmile416]

2 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I disagree with this. I don't think "she finished 12th, but wow, nice layback spin" is going to market figure skating in the US. To be blunt, any sport needs winners to market the sport. Nathan Chen, Davis/White, both did a lot marketing the sport. But the US women are (and no offense to them) not medal contenders even if there weren't the Big Bad Russians. They'd all fall behind the Japanese and Korean women as well. 

The US women need to be more consistent as well. As much as Karen Chen seems to be a nice person, has she ever put together two clean b2b programs?

You will have to forgive me because these Olympics forced me to do deeper dives than I ever have in the past few years into the Women’s skating divisions.  However, one of the YouTube videos I watched on the Exploitation of women in the sport noted how the US was actually marketing Alysa Liu two years ago more than they are now.   Perhaps that’s because at that time she was able to do a quad and now she cannot is a big reason for it…but again that calls into question our own obsession with the quads in women’s figure skating.  Why was she more interesting at 13 than she is at 15??

[Moxie Cat]

Glad to see the US team has sued to get their medals. I don't understand why the US and Japan can't receive the silver and bronze medals that they earned. Just exclude Russia from the ceremony. But at least the two teams that straight-up earned medals would get their Olympic moment. Whether the colors get changed later on is a separate issue. (And yeah, it would suck for Canada.)

[Lady Whistleup]

2 minutes ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

You will have to forgive me because these Olympics forced me to do deeper dives than I ever have in the past few years into the Women’s skating divisions.  However, one of the YouTube videos I watched on the Exploitation of women in the sport noted how the US was actually marketing Alysa Liu two years ago more than they are now.   Perhaps that’s because at that time she was able to do a quad and now she cannot is a big reason for it…but again that calls into question our own obsession with the quads in women’s figure skating.  Why was she more interesting at 13 than she is at 15??

She was an exciting junior. But as a senior she's not been as consistent. That happens a lot when a hyped junior fails to make much of an impact as a senior. 

Also ... I have heard that yes, people dislike Arthur Liu that much.

[Sarahsmile416]

3 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

She was an exciting junior. But as a senior she's not been as consistent. That happens a lot when a hyped junior fails to make much of an impact as a senior. 

Also ... I have heard that yes, people dislike Arthur Liu that much.

But also common when you mature and you have to take into account your changing body when you skate.   It’s why Eteri sees puberty as an evil thing.  🤦🏼‍♀️

[choclatechip45]

I think the accessibility factor is a huge factor in the lack of depth in US Ladies and the fact there is no way to get a college scholarship. It is basically Olympics or bust. 

 

[choclatechip45]

I forgot why Alysa left her first coach if it was Arthur or UFSA, but I noticed a lack of enthusiasm from her when she left. I know UFSA sent her to a bunch of things when she was young to get her experience. I do wonder how much that first move hurt her and then this second move two months before the Olympics. You need consistency and there hasn't been that much of that for Alysa. Plus we had the Pandemic. 

 

[Daisy]

19 minutes ago, Moxie Cat said:

Glad to see the US team has sued to get their medals. I don't understand why the US and Japan can't receive the silver and bronze medals that they earned. Just exclude Russia from the ceremony. But at least the two teams that straight-up earned medals would get their Olympic moment. Whether the colors get changed later on is a separate issue. (And yeah, it would suck for Canada.)

we're used to it. lol

[Avaleigh]

1 hour ago, Hana Chan said:

We need some girls to stay in the sport and be publicized, not torn down because they can't compete with the current crop of Russian pre-teens. When Mariah Bell won Nationals and gets called "ancient" in the US media, all that tells the audience is that she's past her prime and can't stand up to the Russians. The Russian media is currently holding up Valieva as a "hero" despite all the controversy swirling around her and the mess that her FS was, while we're going on about why we can't get an American woman on the podium. How profiles are framed is really important. Nathan Chen benefited after Pyeongchang by being referred to as the "Quad King" even after his failure. Highlighting the positive attributes of the US women skaters (artistry, strength, charm, etc) instead of their faults will certainly help with marketing the sport.

At first I didn't like that there was so much emphasis on Mariah's age but the more I think about it, I like that the media brought some attention to this. Mariah's response that she doesn't have an expiration date was great. She didn't decide to give up on her dreams just because she happens to be older than the average skater. That's a positive message to send to people of any age. She might not have won the Olympics this year but it's great that she can finally call herself a national champion. Her determination and perseverance should be admired so I'm glad that more people now have a sense of what this Olympic journey has been like for her.

[healthnut]

34 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

The US women need to be more consistent as well. As much as Karen Chen seems to be a nice person, has she ever put together two clean b2b programs?

Yes. At Worlds last year and in 2017. Huge skates that allowed us to get three spots. Consistency has undoubtedly been a huge issue, the most successful ladies internationally since 2006 were hugely inconsistent: Ashley Wagner, Alyssa Cizney, Gracie Gold. The ones since then just haven't even been competitive.

[Lady Whistleup]

I always love seeing Tamara Moskvina by the boards. She's such a treasure.

ETA: heh she snubbed Eteri for a handshake.

 

Edited February 19, 2022 by Lady Whistleup

[Rootbeer]

2 hours ago, galaxygirl76 said:

I used my Google-fu and apparently that song dates back to at least the 1920's and was first recorded in the 1930, no one seems to be sure who wrote it. Many people have recorded it. I'm not sure why they think they can sue based on this but IANAL.

It's an old blues standard, it's become like a folk song, everybody knows it, nobody knows how it came to be.  I was reading about the lawsuit and it seems the two band members who are suing are brothers and they are represented by an attorney who just happens to be their father.  Quelle surprise!  He has also sued multiple other entities on their behalf for using it.  They claim that their voices and approach to the song are so unique and special that they deserve to be paid specifically for that.  I have no idea how licensing works, it seems like they expect this payment in addition because they are just that wonderful.  Which they are not.  I presume it is a way to get some attention, I'll bet downloads of the song have increased in the past couple days.  I expect they also know that NBC has plenty of money to pay nuisances to go away and that's the goal here.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Rootbeer

[Rootbeer]

16 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I always love seeing Tamara Moskvina by the boards. She's such a treasure.

ETA: heh she snubbed Eteri for a handshake.

 

Eteri isn't worthy to touch the hem of her blazer.  Tamara has always been a feisty one, I am sure it was a deliberate snub.  Having seen Tamara's pairs teams and the quality of their skating, is there any wonder she doesn't think much of Eteri?

[gingerella]

9 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

Funding is definitely one of the problems. I brought this up in the figure skating thread. USFS will give funding to skaters but only on the elite level. It costs a lot of money to make it far enough to even get the attention of USFS so parents need to be willing to shell out big bucks so that their kid can have ice time, coaching, pay competition fees, traveling, off ice training, etc. This is also part of the reason why this sport doesn't see as many black and latino skaters. 

And herein lies the difference between most countries and countries like Russia and China, where the state runs sports programs and they decide what is and is not acceptable. I wouldn't doubt that the Russian skaters get houses maybe, for their family, so parents would turn a blind eye to get whatever perks come with selling out their children to a state run child sports factory, abuses of all kinds being done behind closed doors.

In the US and EU you have to pony up a shitload of money to support a child with Olympic/professional sports dreams and most families just can't do that, as Avaleigh already pointed out. We can't control what happens in Russia (skating) and China (gymnastics) but the rest of the world sure as hell can yell loudly enough to the IOC about this cheating bullshit. I'd be fine with every other country signing a boycott of the next Games until/unless the IOC first and foremost bans Russia/Russian atheletes, dissolves the ROC bullshit, and pulls all future bids from Russia. I don't really give a shit if such drastic efforts will affect 'innocent, non doping' Russian athletes because right now, I assume every single Russian athlete has cheated in some fashion, that's how deep my distrust goes now. Whatever the sport, I assume they doped. I saw someone last night from Belarus in speed skating and thought immediately, 'well, pretty close to Russia, wonder if they're doping too'. So for me, these Games are a blight, a stain on the Games overall, and they will always be remembered for the Russian cheating scandal. What a damn shame, and how unfair to all the other athletes who show up to play fairly.

ETA: I know this wasn't totally on topic from the last several posts but I'm still boiling mad about this crap.

Edited February 19, 2022 by gingerella

[Lady Whistleup]

9 minutes ago, gingerella said:

In the US and EU you have to pony up a shitload of money to support a child with Olympic/professional sports dreams and most families just can't do that, as Avaleigh already pointed out. We can't control what happens in Russia (skating) and China (gymnastics) but the rest of the world sure as hell can yell loudly enough to the IOC about this cheating bullshit. I'd be fine with every other country signing a boycott of the next Games until/unless the IOC first and foremost bans Russia/Russian atheletes, dissolves the ROC bullshit, and pulls all future bids from Russia. I don't really give a shit if such drastic efforts will affect 'innocent, non doping' Russian athletes because right now, I assume every single Russian athlete has cheated in some fashion, that's how deep my distrust goes now. Whatever the sport, I assume they doped. I saw someone last night from Belarus in speed skating and thought immediately, 'well, pretty close to Russia, wonder if they're doping too'. So for me, these Games are a blight, a stain on the Games overall, and they will always be remembered for the Russian cheating scandal. What a damn shame, and how unfair to all the other athletes who show up to play fairly.

I've mentioned this before, but doping is less country-specific and more rampant in certain sports. There is state-sponsored doping like Russia and East Germany.

But certain sports (cycling, track, swimming) you pretty much have to assume everyone dopes. Usain Bolt, Michael Phelps, Alyson Felix ... I assume they are all doping to one degree or another. There are no "clean" athletes in certain sports. 

Edited February 19, 2022 by Lady Whistleup

[Mirabelle]

1 hour ago, choclatechip45 said:

I think the accessibility factor is a huge factor in the lack of depth in US Ladies and the fact there is no way to get a college scholarship. It is basically Olympics or bust. 

 

There's an alternate universe where Michelle Kwan doesn't lie to her father and takes the senior test at 12. Nicole Bobek has more than one national title, Sarah Hughes and Sasha Cohen battle it out in the 1999-2002 quad for titles, and Yuna Kim and Nathan Chen never set foot on ice.

Frank Carroll did not want her taking the test that young but Michelle's father was working two jobs to fund her and her sister Karen's skating and he wasn't sure how much longer he was going to be able to do it especially when there's no guarantee of senior success. Michelle knew between her and Karen that she was better technically and could pass the test and get into senior. Carroll was furious with her and told her that if she did something like that again she could find herself a new coach and she had better be prepared to start working harder than ever because now that she was a senior she need to prove she belonged there. George Steinbrunner saw her skating at Nationals as a 12 year old and thought she had potential and sent her a check for training. We know how it worked out for Kwan but how many potential champions have left the sport at that age since then because of cost? 

The cost isn't just financial - what does it do to a family if all or most of the resources go to one child's dreams? I can see why parents might decided that it isn't worth it. 

 

[legaleagle53]

4 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

But certain sports (cycling, track, swimming) you pretty much have to assume everyone dopes. Usain Bolt, Michael Phelps, Alyson Felix ... I assume they are all doping to one degree or another. There are no "clean" athletes in certain sports. 

Now I'm curious. Are there any sports where you WOULDN'T just make a blanket assumption that everyone is doping? Curling, maybe?

[Mirabelle]

Probably sports where endurance isn't a big factor like diving or aerials. 

[Lady Whistleup]

15 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Now I'm curious. Are there any sports where you WOULDN'T just make a blanket assumption that everyone is doping? Curling, maybe?

Maybe purely skill-based sports. Rhythmic gymnastics? Archery? Shooting? Fencing?

Also, Belarus and Russia are completely different countries with different languages and ethnicities. It's like assuming the US and Mexico are the same just because they border each other. Or India and Pakistan.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Lady Whistleup

[choclatechip45]

10 minutes ago, Mirabelle said:

There's an alternate universe where Michelle Kwan doesn't lie to her father and takes the senior test at 12. Nicole Bobek has more than one national title, Sarah Hughes and Sasha Cohen battle it out in the 1999-2002 quad for titles, and Yuna Kim and Nathan Chen never set foot on ice.

Frank Carroll did not want her taking the test that young but Michelle's father was working two jobs to fund her and her sister Karen's skating and he wasn't sure how much longer he was going to be able to do it especially when there's no guarantee of senior success. Michelle knew between her and Karen that she was better technically and could pass the test and get into senior. Carroll was furious with her and told her that if she did something like that again she could find herself a new coach and she had better be prepared to start working harder than ever because now that she was a senior she need to prove she belonged there. George Steinbrunner saw her skating at Nationals as a 12 year old and thought she had potential and sent her a check for training. We know how it worked out for Kwan but how many potential champions have left the sport at that age since then because of cost? 

The cost isn't just financial - what does it do to a family if all or most of the resources go to one child's dreams? I can see why parents might decided that it isn't worth it. 

 

Yup. I just don't know how popular skating is in certain places in the US. I grew up in CT pretty much everyone I know did skating lessons at a young ago. One of my sisters friends was a high level skater as a junior.  Most of our parents remember Dorothy Hamill who grew up nearby and then Sarah Hughes got a lot of coverage on the local news because she was in Long Island. 

Simone Biles tried gymnastics because her after school program needed an indoor activity because it rained they noticed how natural it came to her and sent her home with a letter to her parents. I just don't know how many kids are going to the rink as young kids. I read something that Nathan was one of the 400 kids who enrolled in lessons at the rink in Salt Lake City after the 2002 Winter Olympics. 

[Enero]

15 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Now I'm curious. Are there any sports where you WOULDN'T just make a blanket assumption that everyone is doping? Curling, maybe?

I believe a Russian was stripped of his bronze medal from the Pyeongchang Games due to doping. 

 

 

[Enero]

10 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Maybe purely skill-based sports. Rhythmic gymnastics? Archery? Shooting? Fencing?

Also, Belarus and Russia are completely different countries with different languages and ethnicities. It's like assuming the US and Mexico are the same just because they border each other. Or India and Pakistan.

As I understand, one reason why weed is banned, specifically in archery, is because of the calming impact it has on the body. Archers can use it to steady the hand and thus be more precise when shooting. 

I really don’t think any sport is beyond doping. Of course some sports may be more prone to it than others, but there are a plethora of drugs or other unethical methods that can help an athlete be better in any sport. It’s just a matter of determining what is needed to be better and finding the drug or other unethical method to support that. 

[Avaleigh]

30 minutes ago, Mirabelle said:

Michelle knew between her and Karen that she was better technically and could pass the test and get into senior. Carroll was furious with her and told her that if she did something like that again she could find herself a new coach and she had better be prepared to start working harder than ever because now that she was a senior she need to prove she belonged there. 

Passing the test for senior wouldn't have been difficult for Michelle. Back then you didn't even have to do a triple jump to pass the senior test so both Michelle and Karen would have passed easily. The issue was that Michelle didn't do that well at Nationals as a junior so Frank thought it would be better if she stayed in junior for another year with the goal of winning nationals. At that point, Michelle already had all of her triples so to her there was no point in waiting when not even all of the top US ladies then had all of their jumps. For example at Michelle's first nationals as a senior Lisa Ervin placed second even though she didn't have all of her triples. During Michelle's second year as a senior Elaine Zayak was able to place fourth at nationals without a triple flip or lutz. It was a logical move for Michelle to turn senior at the age of 12 even though it was unusually early. Also, Michelle had some early financial support outside of her father from the owners of the training center in Lake Arrowhead. 

[izabella]

21 minutes ago, Enero said:

I really don’t think any sport is beyond doping. Of course some sports may be more prone to it than others, but there are a plethora of drugs or other unethical methods that can help an athlete be better in any sport. It’s just a matter of determining what is needed to be better and finding the drug or other unethical method to support that. 

I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I even question Simone Biles' ADHD meds.  Most kids stop taking those as teens because their symptoms wane.  Could Simone be an exception?  Sure.  But it's enough for me to question it, especially if it's a gymnastics team doctor who says she still needs it while competing in her mid-20s.

[SeanC]

3 hours ago, Daisy said:

I know (now) Orser  is kinda picky with whom he takes as students and all but it's just still... mindboggling. 

Orser has a bunch of Canadian students, none of whom have done anything of late.

He was never all that important to Canadian competitive skating as a coach. Gabrielle Daleman is his only notable Canadian student, and he wasn't even her primary coach.

3 hours ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

You will have to forgive me because these Olympics forced me to do deeper dives than I ever have in the past few years into the Women’s skating divisions.  However, one of the YouTube videos I watched on the Exploitation of women in the sport noted how the US was actually marketing Alysa Liu two years ago more than they are now.   Perhaps that’s because at that time she was able to do a quad and now she cannot is a big reason for it…but again that calls into question our own obsession with the quads in women’s figure skating.  Why was she more interesting at 13 than she is at 15??

When she was 13 it looked like Liu could be a medal contender at the Olympics. By the time she was 15 it was clear she wouldn't be.

Also, some of it was just the "cute kid" factor.

[choclatechip45]

18 minutes ago, izabella said:

I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I even question Simone Biles' ADHD meds.  Most kids stop taking those as teens because their symptoms wane.  Could Simone be an exception?  Sure.  But it's enough for me to question it, especially if it's a gymnastics team doctor who says she still needs it while competing in her mid-20s.

I'm 30 and have been taking ADHD medications since I was 12.

I believe Simone said she stopped taking them in 2017 so she would have been 20. 

[Moxie Cat]

And the US team's appeal has been denied. I'd be so pissed if I were them. Heck, I'm pissed and I'm NOT them.

https://www.axios.com/team-usa-skaters-appeal-silver-medals-olympics-201fb5c5-665e-4e64-b84e-a4830ae14a16.html

ETA: The US delegation (and Japanese and Canadian) should boycott the exhibition. Clearly TPTB value placating the Russians over doing what's right by the teams that legitimately won. So let them have an exhibition with only Russian skaters. (And I know this was a CAS decision, not apparently IOC or ISU, but still.)

Edited February 19, 2022 by Moxie Cat

[EllenB]

Regarding financing an expensive sport, Nancy Kerrigan's father worked multiple jobs to pay for her training, and at least they were located pretty close to the facility. Todd Eldredge's entire small town financed his training. They were two of the luckier non-wealthy skaters.

Ice skating was all over television for many years. When the Nationals and Olympics were covered, they'd show all the skaters, not just the top ones. There were skaters I'd watched for years at Nationals and rooted for, who never made the podium - with a few exceptions, like Paul Wylie, who finally got a bronze after years competing, and then had memorable Olympic performances that season.

The non-National and non-Olympic shows were great to watch, a lot of professional competitions (that were very good-natured fun) and exhibition specials. I think Scott Hamilton, Kristi Yamaguchi, and Kurt Browning were the driving force behind the televised shows and tours; the guys had huge personalities and she had tons of charm, and they were all cheerleaders for their sport. And those shows let people follow their favorites for several seasons after their amateur years. It wasn't just the big winners - Yuka Sato became one of my favorites after just one World's win, but no Olympic medals. She got better as a professional, maybe with the lack of competitive pressure.  There were others who had brief moments in the amateur world, but were able to show their personalities AND talent in the pro shows.

Now there are so many other winter sports that appeal to younger viewers, so skating is relegated to just a few times a year. 😟

[scarynikki12]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I even question Simone Biles' ADHD meds.  Most kids stop taking those as teens because their symptoms wane.  Could Simone be an exception?  Sure.  But it's enough for me to question it, especially if it's a gymnastics team doctor who says she still needs it while competing in her mid-20s.

There are many adults who to take ADHD meds so I wouldn't take her age to mean anything.

[Enero]

Watched Sui/Han’s SP and LP. Both were great skates! Despite her error in the free skate, her side by side jumps didn’t look as effortless as they should’ve in the both programs. She looked to be barely landing them, I thought their gold was still well deserved.

It was very cool seeing Shen/Zhao in the K&C with them. I loved hearing about their love story back in the day. I remember when he proposed to her after their WC skate. He got down on one knee to propose and she had no idea what he was doing and got down on her knees too. Lol. Anyway lovely couple. It looks like they’re still together after all these years which is sweet.

[Moxie Cat]

7 minutes ago, EllenB said:

The non-National and non-Olympic shows were great to watch, a lot of professional competitions (that were very good-natured fun) and exhibition specials. I think Scott Hamilton, Kristi Yamaguchi, and Kurt Browning were the driving force behind the televised shows and tours

HBO used to show those specials and exhibitions in the early '90s, imagine that! I have a few of them on tape. It's where I first saw Hamilton doing his backflips. They were super fun.

The fact that nothing like that is on today shows how far the sport has fallen in popularity. Even when NBC airs GP or other competitions, it's basically impossible to catch the pairs and ice dance on network TV except during US nationals.

Someone asked about kids doing ice skating in different parts of the country. I have lived outside Philadelphia all my life. I didn't know anyone who had an ice skating hobby, nor do I know any friends' kids who do it now. A few guys played hockey, and we do have a few year-round indoor rinks in the area. Competitive sports, dance, gymnastics, etc. (even horseback riding) are much more popular. 

[scarynikki12]

I'm watching old programs and I'm reminded how flat out stupid some of Scott Hamilton's commentary was. He's the opposite of Rowdy Gaines (also a gold medalist in 84 in swimming at the summer games) for me. Both men have an abundance of enthusiasm for their sport but Rowdy will go into detail as to why a swimmer is expected to win, how the winning swimmer succeeded, why another lost steam, etc. Meanwhile, during Kristi's 92 short program Scott's giving us gems like "Kristi's greatest strength is that she has no weakness". Kill me now. 

[Sarahsmile416]

4 minutes ago, Moxie Cat said:

HBO used to show those specials and exhibitions in the early '90s, imagine that! I have a few of them on tape. It's where I first saw Hamilton doing his backflips. They were super fun.

The fact that nothing like that is on today shows how far the sport has fallen in popularity. Even when NBC airs GP or other competitions, it's basically impossible to catch the pairs and ice dance on network TV except during US nationals.

Someone asked about kids doing ice skating in different parts of the country. I have lived outside Philadelphia all my life. I didn't know anyone who had an ice skating hobby, nor do I know any friends' kids who do it now. A few guys played hockey, and we do have a few year-round indoor rinks in the area. Competitive sports, dance, gymnastics, etc. (even horseback riding) are much more popular. 

It’s funny - speaking of ice skating - I used to live in Delaware - about five minutes away from the University of Delaware which at that point was the epicenter for skating.  I knew quite a few ice skaters in high school who claimed to know Tara Lipinski and some pair skaters.  As a kid, I wanted to ice skate because of watching Michelle Kwan and Kristi Yamaguchi - ice skating as a sport was always a very huge part of my life both as a viewer and as a part of where I was living at the time.  I haven’t lived there in years so I don’t even know whether ice skating is as big now as it was when I lived there. 

[Conotocarious]

Honestly at a certain point I think professional figure skating (which had Boitano and Gordeeva and Grinkov and Yamaguchi) was more popular than amateur. Sometime in the early 90s. They televised the world professional figure skating championships and they would go up against football because they could. I miss that golden age, skating was so great. I even met Brian Boitano (before his second Olympic appearance) and he was SO NICE.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Conotocarious

[emmawoodhouse]

Remember this? 

 

[Jeddah]

Just now, emmawoodhouse said:

Remember this? 

 

I was just thinking about that program! That was around when I first started seriously watching the Grand Prix events. I remember watching and thinking they were adorable. But those pants. Who thought that was a good idea?

[Conotocarious]

In reflecting on how different skating used to be I returned to watch this program….

 

Where if you read the comments everyone is like “OMG….that STEP SEQUENCE. It gives me chills”. And it does. And there’s just nothing like that anymore. The only thing anyone cares (and no one cares all that much anymore) about is these pre-rotated and mediocre jumps in the middle of limp programs. 

Back in the day, the step sequence in a program could be that moment. 

Edited February 19, 2022 by Conotocarious

[Chaser]

Nathan Chen knows the value of a good step sequence. 

 

[Sarahsmile416]

6 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

In reflecting on how different skating used to be I returned to watch this program….

 

Where if you read the comments everyone is like “OMG….that STEP SEQUENCE. It gives me chills”. And it does. And there’s just nothing that anymore. The only thing anyone cares (and no one cares all that much anymore) about is these pre-rotated and mediocre jumps in the middle of limp programs. 

Back in the day, the step sequence in a program could be that moment. 

Thank you for this…I haven’t re-watched her programs for years - I forgot what a stunning skater she was.  The jumps, the artistry…she had it all. Just beautiful. 

[windsprints]

Quote

Honestly at a certain point I think professional figure skating (which had Boitano and Gordeeva and Grinkov and Yamaguchi) was more popular than amateur. Sometime in the early 90s. They televised the world professional figure skating championships and they would go up against football because they could. I miss that golden age, skating was so great. I even met Brian Boitano (before his second Olympic appearance) and he was SO NICE.

I remember skating exploding after Kristi won. There were multiple skating tours and all the pro competitions and shows were on tv for hours on the weekends. Figure skating was huge.  My niece was little & I took her to show after show. It was such a fun thing that we enjoyed together.  Even as a little kid she knew all the skaters & followed them on tv. She and I were just talking about it the other day, we can't remember when it dropped off.

[scarynikki12]

11 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

In reflecting on how different skating used to be I returned to watch this program….

 

Where if you read the comments everyone is like “OMG….that STEP SEQUENCE. It gives me chills”. And it does. And there’s just nothing like that anymore. The only thing anyone cares (and no one cares all that much anymore) about is these pre-rotated and mediocre jumps in the middle of limp programs. 

Back in the day, the step sequence in a program could be that moment. 

I always love watching Michelle's programs but that was stunning and more enjoyable than most of what's been done in recent years. 

One way I think skating went in the wrong direction was when they settled on the new scoring system. I agree that the 6.0 system needed an update but they went way too far away from it. It reminds me of the scoring overhaul in gymnastics (which occurred two years later so I'm not claiming it was the inspiration) but that sport has 4-6 disciplines where there can be any number of combinations out of hundreds of moves to choose from. Even the vault, where gymnasts are most limited in what they can do, has multiple options. With skating they're limited in the available moves they can use and the scoring should reflect that reality. 

[Chaser]

37 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

In reflecting on how different skating used to be I returned to watch this program….

 

Where if you read the comments everyone is like “OMG….that STEP SEQUENCE. It gives me chills”. And it does. And there’s just nothing like that anymore. The only thing anyone cares (and no one cares all that much anymore) about is these pre-rotated and mediocre jumps in the middle of limp programs. 

Back in the day, the step sequence in a program could be that moment. 

The pure quality of skating there for what we are getting now from the top ladies is almost tragic. It’s like woman’s skating regressed. And by top ladies I mean those getting rewarded like the Russians . 

[Lady Whistleup]

Ok so my mom follows Chinese language news outlets and apparently in China the reporters are not fond of Nathan Chen? They think he's a bit arrogant and are dismayed he doesn't speak any Mandarin. I'm actually shocked he can't either -- I grew up in a Chinese American household and have no idea how I'd communicate with my mom if I didn't speak Mandarin.

 

[choclatechip45]

2 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Ok so my mom follows Chinese language news outlets and apparently in China the reporters are not fond of Nathan Chen? They think he's a bit arrogant and are dismayed he doesn't speak any Mandarin. I'm actually shocked he can't either -- I grew up in a Chinese American household and have no idea how I'd communicate with my mom if I didn't speak Mandarin.

 

Karen Chen had a quote that the only thing she was better than Nathan at was Mandarin.