Figure Skating

[choclatechip45]

I'm a female and stopped growing at 13. I was also underweight until I went off to college and ate junk food all the time. Just saying!

[Rootbeer]

2 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

Isn’t this the technique Nathan Chen uses too?

Yes, because his coach, Raf Artunian, was born in Georgia in the USSR, learned to skate in that part of the world, and coached there before moving to the US.  So, he taught Nathan to jump using the Russian technique and start rotating the upper body before jumping.

[ShellsandCheese]

47 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

They can put in more rules that limit the amount of jumps allowed in a program, limit the amount of quads one skater can do in a program, add an extra step sequence, get rid of the bonus for jumps done in the second half of a program, etc.  The sport has options.

I think they did a lot of this. The easiest solution is people could just follow the rules, not cheat, and not abuse their young trainees - but I guess that’s too much to ask. Personally, I think women doing quads is a great thing - it was exciting when Midori Ito and Tanya Harding landed triple axels. It was exciting when Elvis Stojko and Ilya Kulik landed quads in competition. I know that men and women and boys and girls are different - but I’m also opposed to putting limitations on athletes or limiting athletic pursuits by virtue of sex or gender.

[MaryMitch]

It's a shame that we are trying to figure out rules to keep coaches and athletes from doing permanent harm to their bodies. 

[Avaleigh]

37 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

 I can see that, but, as they say, life is not fair.  If a guy who loves to play basketball doesn't grow to be well over 6 feet tall, then he is not very likely to make the US basketball team.  If a gymnast might grow too tall for the apparatus, then she should find another sport, not expect the rules to be changed so she can compete before she gets grows.  Certain body types have advantages in different sports, letting young kids compete with grown-ups is not the answer.

So basically the idea is to punish current and future women who haven't done anything wrong because the Russians are cheaters? That doesn't feel right to me. There are too many skaters under the age of 18 who were competing internationally and weren't coming from abusive training backgrounds. 

Michelle Kwan, Sasha Cohen, Sarah Hughes, Tara Lipinski, Polina Edmunds, Mirai Nagasu, Kimmie Meissner, Karen Chen, etc. All of these skaters would have been negatively effected by a rule that only allows 18 year olds to compete in senior events.

I doubt they would agree with the idea that not allowing them to compete was protecting them.

[Jeddah]

I don’t know why I can’t embed things from Instagram anymore, but Vincent is out of quarantine!

[ShellsandCheese]

2 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

I don’t know why I can’t embed things from Instagram anymore, but Vincent is out of quarantine!

Yay!

[Mirabelle]

Hopefully, Vincent can salvage something out of his Olympic experience and skate lights out at the gala. 

[Lady Whistleup]

I don't think there's inherently anything wrong with teaching the Russian way of jumps. American skaters who don't learn the curved pre-rotation have trouble with UR calls -- Karen Chen in particular gets dinged for UR jumps all the time. Gracie Gold had gorgeous jumps and could land a quad apparently. But Frank Carroll insisted on her dropping her Russian curved entry and her jump technique was never the same.

There's a reason Nathan's coach Raf is considered one of the best in the business. He's also rescued skaters who struggled with consistency and jump technique. And Raf definitely teaches the curved pre-rotation technique. 

I think Eteri girls burn out because of the food deprivation, water deprivation, emotional abuse, isolation from family, and (probably) harmful effects of doping 15 year olds. 

Just teaching the pre-rotating curved entry is not "bad" and the American way is not "correct." It's all the other abuse that Eteri does that is bad.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Lady Whistleup

[Hana Chan]

1 hour ago, Lady Whistleup said:

The thing about banning "everything:" is that some athletes might genuinely need heart medication and then it turns up on the banned list.

There are allowances in the code to allow medically necessary medications. Simone Biles was allowed her medications for her ADHD. It had to be registered and the athletes end up being monitored relentlessly to ensure that the medications are not being used in a way that can enhance their performance. Simone said that she was probably one of the most tested athletes in history.

There are numerous medications that can be vital for people's health but in the hands of someone medically healthy can markedly improve strength and recovery. I work with hematology/oncologists and medications like darbepoetin (used to help the body replace red blood cells) are vital for patients with anemia and some cancers but have been used to dope because it allows the blood to oxygenate better; Allowing athletes access to medications that they genuinely is possible but it requires clear instructions, openness and rigorous oversight. 

The problem is when you have an actor like Russia that has the mentality of doing whatever they can get away with that upends the faith that the system can work. And as we see, everyone suffers as a result.

[choclatechip45]

Apparently Vincent used Netflix for the first time and watched Icarus. 

[Hana Chan]

7 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I think Eteri girls burn out because of the food deprivation, water deprivation, emotional abuse, isolation from family, and (probably) harmful effects of doping 15 year olds. 

Just teaching the pre-rotating curved entry is not "bad" and the American way is not "correct." It's all the other abuse that Eteri does that is bad.

It's a combination of both. The technique that Eteri teaches works so long as the body is exceedingly light and thin (no boobs or hips). It stops being effective once these girls are unable to stave off puberty and start maturing.  So they manage on as little nutrition and hydration as possible, are weighed daily to ensure that their weight doesn't deviate by more than half a pound and the work themselves into the ground relentlessly.

Then their backs are destroyed by the torqueing from those jumps, and they try to make this faulty technique work with a body that isn't that of a 13 year old boy any longer. An athlete might be able to overcome poor technique or abusing their bodies, but trying to overcome both all but impossible as evidenced by the wreckage that Eteri leaves behind her.

[healthnut]

 

[galaxygirl76]

55 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

Apparently Vincent used Netflix for the first time and watched Icarus. 

Everyone should watch Icarus. It's fantastic and very deserving of it's Oscar.

52 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

It's a combination of both. The technique that Eteri teaches works so long as the body is exceedingly light and thin (no boobs or hips). It stops being effective once these girls are unable to stave off puberty and start maturing.  So they manage on as little nutrition and hydration as possible, are weighed daily to ensure that their weight doesn't deviate by more than half a pound and the work themselves into the ground relentlessly.

Then their backs are destroyed by the torqueing from those jumps, and they try to make this faulty technique work with a body that isn't that of a 13 year old boy any longer. An athlete might be able to overcome poor technique or abusing their bodies, but trying to overcome both all but impossible as evidenced by the wreckage that Eteri leaves behind her.

I find it very sus and alarming that Aliona Kostornaia broke her hand/arm which made her miss Russian nationals and according to the figure skating reddit she posted today that she just broke her other arm.

[Minneapple]

41 minutes ago, healthnut said:

 

Do you — do you think the Russians might have been (gasp) lying? They wouldn’t do that, would they?

[Pallas]

3 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

As for Kamila, the focus should be on the banned drug and her punishment should be based on that - but I see why people are bringing up the other drugs.

Because the investigation will focus upon whether her alibi is deemed the most plausible reason for her to have Trimetazidine in her system. The presence of two additional drugs that boast similar effects casts even more shade on her story of why she should be grandfathered into the competition.

[Crs97]

3 minutes ago, Pallas said:

The presence of two additional drugs that boast similar effects casts even more shade on her story of why she should be grandfathered into the competition.

I see what you did there! 👏😁

[galaxygirl76]

27 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Do you — do you think the Russians might have been (gasp) lying? They wouldn’t do that, would they?

How dare you! Grandpa is a lot sicker than he's telling people!

[ShellsandCheese]

6 minutes ago, Pallas said:

Because the investigation will focus upon whether her alibi is deemed the most plausible reason for her to have Trimetazidine in her system. The presence of two additional drugs that boast similar effects casts even more shade on her story of why she should be grandfathered into the competition.

I know! That’s why I said I see why people are focusing on the other drugs but the banned one is the one matters. That being said, I’m calling it now. If Kamila isn’t perfect she’s not going to get gold. I didn’t watch any of the Russians in the short program but it sounds like Kaori should have been first and Anna second - and looking at the scores, it’s pretty close. I could easily see Kaori or Anna winning gold if Kamila messes up. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by ShellsandCheese

[Minneapple]

3 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

How dare you! Grandpa is a lot sicker than he's telling people!

Well, I heard his quad lutz is coming along pretty well!

[Pallas]

Valieva will unveil a new jump in her long program: the quad bypass.

[Sarahsmile416]

7 minutes ago, Pallas said:

Valieva will unveil a new jump in her long program: the quad bypass.

It will make your heart skip a beat!

[shoregirl]

42 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Do you — do you think the Russians might have been (gasp) lying? They wouldn’t do that, would they?

I for one am shocked. How dare they question the integrity of the Russians. I mean the ROC 🙄 . 

 

[healthnut]

Meanwhile, “IOC president Thomas Bach has reportedly offered to give U.S. figure skaters Olympic torches as a holdover gift while they await a final verdict on the figure skating team event standings.”

I mean how can you turn down that? 🙄

[Lady Whistleup]

15 minutes ago, Pallas said:

Valieva will unveil a new jump in her long program: the quad bypass.

Omg. You win the internet for the day.

[Chit Chat]

I'm a day late in my viewing, so I just finished watching the ladies short program.  Honestly, I wasn't all that impressed with Kamila's performance.  Technically it was good, but the whole performance seemed rushed and lacked the artistry I've seen from her before.  Even with the level of difficulty she attempted and landed/not landed, I don't understand how one can be in first place after a fall or stumble.  I expect nearly perfect from this level of athlete.  

 I liked Higuchi's and Sakamota's overall performance much better.  They both seemed more elegant in their skating.  Kamila looked like a deer in the headlights to me.  Maybe she was afraid of the audience reaction.  It's got to be tough being in the spotlight for the wrong reasons.  

And Johnny & Tara were pissed!   This has got to be such a huge disappointment for them to see this scandal unfolding in front of them.  

[galaxygirl76]

25 minutes ago, healthnut said:

Meanwhile, “IOC president Thomas Bach has reportedly offered to give U.S. figure skaters Olympic torches as a holdover gift while they await a final verdict on the figure skating team event standings.”

I mean how can you turn down that? 🙄

It's practically a gold medal.

[Frisky Wig]

10 hours ago, choclatechip45 said:

If you are going to raise the age because of doping you should raise the age in every Olympic sport. There was an 11 year old competing in skateboarding. There is no age minimum in swimming. 

I was curious about this so I looked into it.

Youngest athletes at the 2020 Olympic Games:

Hend Zaza: Syrian table tennis player, 12 years old

Kokona Hiraki, Japanese skateboarder, 12 years old

Sky Brown, British skateboarder, 13 years old

Momiji Nishiya, Japanese skateboarder, 13 years old

Rayssa Leal, Brazilian skateboarder, 13 years old

Quan Hongchan, Chinese diver, 14 years old

Summer McIntosh, Canadian swimmer, 14 years old

Katie Grimes, American swimmer, 15 years old

 

Interesting how they're all girls...

Edited February 17, 2022 by Frisky Wig
Added people

[Chit Chat]

3 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Personally, I think women doing quads is a great thing - it was exciting when Midori Ito and Tanya Harding landed triple axels. It was exciting when Elvis Stojko and Ilya Kulik landed quads in competition.

I'm okay with either sex doing quads as long as they land the damn thing!!  I hate seeing skaters out there attempting jumps that they might not be good at, which results in falls and stumbles.  I'd rather see skaters do what they do best (as we saw in the ladies short program), and do it cleanly, than to see them attempt jumps that are beyond their skill level and end up looking like they don't belong in the Olympics.

I also hate seeing a program that is so geared towards the jumps that they leave out the artistry aspect of it.  A skater at that level should be able to do the technical stuff and look artistically pretty while doing it!!  

[redpencil]

6 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

By all rights, everyone from Eteri's rink should be banned from competition until this is cleared up. But that's not going to happen because the IOC is too damned dense and spineless to see what is right in front of them.

I just fear that anything like this IOC, ISU, or WADA tried to do would just get overruled again by CAS. Especially for the other skaters who have no negative tests; that would never hold up. Maybe if they found evidence that the adults gave Kamila the drug, they could ban the coaching group (I really don't know if there's any precedent for this? most of the coach bans I'm aware of have just been national federations banning their own coaches, and we know that ain't happening here). But the skaters would probably be allowed to continue.

4 hours ago, ombelico said:

The problem with having age restrictions on a sport-by-sport basis is that the anti-doping code applies to all sports the same. If WADA is essentially saying that someone 15 and under is too immature to be held to the anti-doping regulations, then it stands to reason that they are also too immature to be competing on the world stage, no matter which sport it is.

To be fair, it was CAS that interpreted things in way WADA is not happy about and says was wrong. I believe the "protected person" stuff in current WADA rules is for the punishment--it could potentially be more lenient, depending on the facts of the case and judgment of culpability on the part of the athlete (but there could still be punishment up to 2 years). But it doesn't say they can't have provisional suspensions while the case proceeds. CAS essentially said because the WADA rules didn't explicitly say a protected person should be provisionally suspended, it should be lifted. But WADA basically says the provisional suspension applies to everyone, and CAS got it wrong.

[NUguy514]

1 hour ago, healthnut said:

Meanwhile, “IOC president Thomas Bach has reportedly offered to give U.S. figure skaters Olympic torches as a holdover gift while they await a final verdict on the figure skating team event standings.”

I mean how can you turn down that? 🙄

Thomas, my dear Tommy Tom-Tom, the US figure skaters will happily and enthusiastically accept your magnanimous gift of torches instead of the gold medals they should be receiving, but only on the condition that you present these good-as-gold torches to the team yourself and they are then allowed to beat you to a bloody pulp with them.  Let me know, sweetie, and looking forward to it!  Kiss-kiss.

[katha]

I think the "it was grandpa's heart medication" has been thrown in to deflect blame from the coaching environment. As long as Tutberidze is protected, that's all that matters. They can deal with a suspension for Valieva. 

And as various commentators have pointed out, everything that makes Valieva so great (she is a generational talent IMO), that can't be achieved with doping. Her incredible skills are the result of hard (probably backbreaking...) work. The doping would have been used to counter the various abuses that are going on at camp Tutberidze. To make her fit and able to recover quickly even though she is being starved and overtrained... Allegedly, but come on now. 

Everyone was way too quiet about the BS the Karolyis were pulling, abusing generations of young girls. There should be no more handwaving about the awful stuff Tutberidze is doing. Child abuse, child abuse, child abuse. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by katha

[absnow54]

Rough skate for Karen. At least she got a medal in the team event, but this was a disappointing Olympics for her. 

[Hana Chan]

11 hours ago, healthnut said:

 

Given how quickly this drug metabolizes and the high dosage found, it's pretty much impossible for this to be an incidental dosing. We'll have to wait for the second specimen t be tested but if it matches the first, there is no way that they can argue that the test was faulty or that the dosing was not deliberate.

Of course, they'll try because... Russia. But here's hoping that the IOC and WADA lower the boom on them.

4 hours ago, katha said:

As long as Tutberidze is protected, that's all that matters. They can deal with a suspension for Valieva. 

Totally agree. Eteri is a veritable gold mine for Russia's sports program and she's closely linked to the government so there's no way that they'll let her be sacrificed. Anyone else though... trainers, doctors, skaters... they're all fair game but Eteri will emerge unscathed. Which is pretty absurd as she's the head coach and responsible for everything that happens at her rink.

[absnow54]

Mariah Bell gets me every time with that triple lutz. She’s guaranteed 10th place now, but I thought the Georgian skater was better. 

[Minneapple]

Mariah had s very nice skate, good to see after her showing in the short program.

Eta nice skate from Alisa too.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Minneapple

[choclatechip45]

Nice skate by Alysa! It's nice to see her happy skating again. 

[Hana Chan]

The Russians are coming up soon. Which gives us plenty of  opportunities to see Eteri's eternal resting bitch face and the never ending clown show that is the international judging team.

Here's hoping that Kaori pulls out a miracle and denies Russia it's podium sweep.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Hana Chan

[absnow54]

5 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

The Russians are coming up soon. Which gives us plenty of  opportunities to see Eteri's eternal resting bitch face and the eternal clown show that is the international judging team.

10/10 for splats! Sending all my positive energy to the Japanese skaters. 

[annzeepark914]

I think I'll pass watching the LP. I'll wait for World's. Maybe Kamila will have retired by then.

[Hana Chan]

Shoma and Yuzuru are in the audience to cheer on the Japanese ladies. Here's hoping they bring some good luck.

Wakaba was glorious! Picture perfect 3A.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Hana Chan

[absnow54]

Ugh Russians are going to sweep. Trusova hit all of her jumps and even though her skating was lazy, she’ll get 9s for PCS

[Hana Chan]

Just now, absnow54 said:

Ugh Russians are going to sweep. Trusova hit all of her jumps and even though her skating was lazy, she’ll get 9s for PCS

The problem is that outside of her jumps, her program is positively junior level. There's no life or emotion in it. She's a jumping bean, going from one quad to the next.

The sad thing is that I don't expect her to make it through another year of competition at the rate she's going. She's likely to burn out before the next quad begins.

[Rootbeer]

I paused to make some toast before getting to the Russians since I am sure I will lose my appetite soon..  I just want to say that the last half dozen or so ladies have reminded me of why I love skating so much.  Their long programs this morning have been superb.  Beautiful skating, wonderful artistry and a pure example of the joy that skating can bring.  No amount of cheating can take away what those women have brought to the sport today. To have performed so exquisitely under such a cloud in this competition is the true test of champions.

Time to take some Tums and watch the Russians.

ETA: Watched Trusova.  I do not understand how her PCS aren't in the negative numbers.  Ugly skating in an ugly outfit to ugly music. I also see Eteri has the full Cruella DeVille going on today, from the stringy hair to the fur cuffs on her sleeves.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Rootbeer

[KittenPokerCheater]

Kaori!!!!  😍

Give me a performance like that over Trusova 7 days a week and twice on sundays.

[choclatechip45]

I hate Trusova's programs. I've always like her fangirl personality off the ice though. 

[GeminiDancer]

Ugh… it’s going to be a Russian sweep, isn’t it? No, I don’t think Anna and Sasha are clean either. 

[Hana Chan]

Just now, GeminiDancer said:

Ugh… it’s going to be a Russian sweep, isn’t it? No, I don’t think Anna and Sasha are clean either. 

Yup. Kaori was magnificent but she's 20 points behind Sasha. Unless Anna and Kamila both completely combust on the ice, it's not even going to be close.

I love this sport but today... Today I'm hating it.

[Rootbeer]

Kaori was a breath of fresh air after watching Trusova.  She makes it all look so natural and effortless.  Of course, the judges won't give her proper credit.

[galaxygirl76]

I don't understand when your sport is already under scrutiny the skating while Russian bonus is still very noticeably in full force. Fucking clown show.