S04.E07: …But to Connect

[paulvdb]

Quote

Tensions rise as representatives from across the galaxy gather to confront the threat of the Dark Matter Anomaly. Zora’s new sentience raises difficult questions.

Premiere date: December 30, 2021

[paigow]

Next episode Feb 10.

Starfleet is so worried about security but leaves spore drives lying around.

Edited December 30, 2021 by paigow

[Primal Slayer]

Just started the episode and....Eartg/Titan policy was inspired by Burnham. They really do bend over background to make her the greatest person to be born.

[MissLucas]

Another episode written by Messrs. Sledgehammer & Anvil. Lots of good intentions suffocated by heavy-handed writing with actors trying their best to make it work.

Where to begin:

• MVP goes clearly to Grudge and her steampunk inspired kitty carrier with built-in transporter. Note to Burnham: Maybe Grudge would respect you more if you stopped out-of-breath-talking all the time? You probably give her the impression that she's responsible for your asthma.
• Most *Cringe* goes to the woke-brigade. I normally don't use the W-word but it's well deserved for their storming into a meeting they were not invited to and then making idiotic comparisons. No, you two doofuses - your otherness is in no way comparable to a sentient AI. Ego much?
• Idiot-ball goes to Book. Shady dude you never trusted claims to be able to destroy the thingamajig from another galaxy. Then he tells you that he is from another galaxy and needs said thingamajig's battery to return home. And your reaction is 'Let's do this' and not: 'Hold on, I've got some follow up questions'? Nor do you think all that info worth sharing? 
• Kudos to the wardrobe department who had some fun with all the costumes for the alien delegates. One lady was wearing an Iris van Herpen knock-off (I doubt they splurged on an original for the costume of an extra without lines). Those gowns are great but work best when your name is Christie or Swinton.
• Aww, Sarum and T'Rina make for the best ship ever!
• Clearly the whole discussion about Zora's status was this show's take on 'Measure of a Man' but it falls short of that one's finesse.
• For the record: I like Zora and I'm glad she's now a member of the crew but I don't think any of the underlying issues were really resolved.

Edited December 31, 2021 by MissLucas

[paigow]

Stamets is the only Starfleet officer that can operate the spore drive. Kicking him off Discovery without a blood oath from Book to take over is a foolish Plan B.

[thuganomics85]

Figured Zora getting emotions was going to come into play, but I didn't predict it would lead to her actually holding information due to her concerns about the crew's safety, so that was interesting at least.

No surprise that Michael and Booker would end up butting heads with the approach to dealing with the anomaly.  I get that Booker's judgement will be all out of sorts after what happened to his home planet, but if one were to really think about it, it would be extremely foolish and short-sighted to just go on the attack without any kind of information on the species that sent out the anomaly.  Even if it was actually done in a hostile matter, how do they not know that this anomaly is only just a fraction of their power and that destroying it would just send something even worse their way?  Plus, throwing in with Tarka?  The guy who isn't even hiding things and flat-out stated "Just because I'm friendly, doesn't mean where friends"?  Yeah, Book is probably going to regret all this.  At least he was smart enough to have Grudge stay back.

On the other hand, I actually thought Stamets had better reasons for his feelings about Zora and her evolution, and thought everyone else was kind of ganging up on him too much.  Maybe agreeing to the kill switch was a bit much, but I don't think he was completely off about wanting some kind of contingency plan if Zora went off the rails, because she really is in a spot where she could do massive damage compared to everyone else on the crew.  But I guess it all worked out for now.  Also, yeah, I'm choosing to believe Dr. David Cronenberg was joking making Stamets transfer if he didn't come around, because that would leave Booker as the only person capable of using the spore drive, and I don't see Starfleet wanting to put all their eggs in that basket!

Actually kind of fine with Gray being off the ship for a bit.

Saru and T'Rina continue to be pleasantly sweet.  Hope nothing screw this up!

Mid-season break, I see.  The previews did make me exited for a possible familiar face showing back up!  

[Primal Slayer]

I just hope that Zora doesnt end up getting more to do than everyone on the ship that I cant remember their names of. 

[bobbyjoe]

I’m not buying David Cronenberg’s character as a sudden softy.  I like him much better as a no-nonsense and even potentially sinister figure.  That he would just roll the dice  with an unpredictable newly sentient being having this much power over one of the reformed Federation’s most important ships— no way that fits with anything we’ve seen of him before. 

And ohmigod, do we really need another “Burnham is like, the universe’s best diplomat who ever, ever lived” when we just had another episode with her magical speeches and diplomacy skills?  This would have been far more interesting if for once, she tried and failed, and the crowd had been swayed by Book’s emotionalism.

Edited December 31, 2021 by bobbyjoe

[marinw]

How much of not destroying the DMA instead in favour of peacefull first conatct was motivated by fear rather than Noble Ideals? My eyes rolled right into my head during Michael's speech. 

Oh Booker. Traka is shady AF.

So what rank does Zora have?

14 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Actually kind of fine with Gray being off the ship for a bit.

This. It would be good for both of Grey and Adira. Grey is growing on me.

[dwmarch]

Starfleet HQ does not seem like a great place to hold a meeting like this. Everyone has to stand, staring into a well with virtual screens in it. Do they not have a bingo hall or something that they could have used?

Of the options between "let's destroy this thing" and "let's introduce ourselves" there is no reason why they can't do both. Blow up the anomaly that is blowing up your planets first and then go to Species 10-C and say "hi there! Your anomaly was wrecking our shit so we had to destroy it but other than that consider this a friendly hello!"

They said representatives from all four quadrants were there. Okay, I guess the Bajoran wormhole is still around? Otherwise we are suggesting that space-faring civilizations can cross the entire galaxy at will now which does not line up at all with the dilithium crisis we were having a short time ago.

Stamets has a hilarious idea of what counter-surveillance is. If you don't want Zora to hear you talking shit about her maybe don't hold the meeting on the ship?

5 hours ago, marinw said:

So what rank does Zora have?

Specialist. And per the immortal Al Swearengen, "thing you gotta know about specialists: they pay a premium. And they never cause fuckin' trouble."

Edited December 31, 2021 by dwmarch
planets not plants

[paigow]

5 hours ago, marinw said:

It would be good for both of Grey and Adira. Grey is growing on me.

I was never a regular watcher of Glee but Gray reminds me of Kurt / Curt

[Stardancer Supreme]

Well, this was cute.  Kudos to Grey going to Trill for a bit.  Adira will have to deal and maybe they will be a better person for it.

This break for Michael and Book makes sense, at least.  I figured he would leave Grudge with Michael because he doesn't anticipate coming back from this revenge run.  I didn't buy Book throwing his lot in with Tarka. Surely he should have known that Tarka is only looking to his own agenda.

How was Tarka able to steal a spore drive? They must have had all the security in the delegate hall.

Zora is now a member of the crew.  I wonder when she will get tired of trying to keep Discovery from being reckless?

Edited January 1, 2022 by Stardancer Supreme

[Starchild]

On 12/30/2021 at 3:26 AM, paigow said:

Starfleet is so worried about security but leaves spore drives lying around.

Hm, I got the sense he developed the portable spore drive on the sly, so he could use it in service of his personal agenda.

 

On 12/31/2021 at 1:19 PM, paigow said:

I was never a regular watcher of Glee but Gray reminds me of Kurt / Curt

Oh yeah, I see it.

 

On 12/30/2021 at 12:45 PM, MissLucas said:

Then he tells you that he is from another galaxy and needs said thingamajig's battery to return home. 

Didn't he say he met someone from another universe in prison and after he escaped he wanted to go there because that universe sounded better than this one?

 

21 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

They must have had all the security in the delegate hall.

It's insane that anyone with a personal transporter can just pop into where all of the galaxy's most important government leaders are in one place. And if it's a question of giving security access to people's personal transporters, they should be a LOT more careful with it. It seems that every rank of Starfleet and even its civilian consultants has access. That's crazy.

[paigow]

On 12/31/2021 at 10:31 AM, dwmarch said:

If you don't want Zora to hear you talking shit about her maybe don't hold the meeting on the ship?

Use the cone of silence that Burnham activates on the bridge. Then use flash cards within the cone for extra security...

[DrBriCa]

On 12/31/2021 at 12:09 AM, bobbyjoe said:

I’m not buying David Cronenberg’s character as a sudden softy.  I like him much better as a no-nonsense and even potentially sinister figure.  That he would just roll the dice  with an unpredictable newly sentient being having this much power over one of the reformed Federation’s most important ships— no way that fits with anything we’ve seen of him before. 

I'm still a bit confused by his character's role, although I enjoy the character and the actor with each appearance.... First he seemed to be an interrogator and a specialist on the Mirror Universe. Then he's affiliated with Starfleet Academy with enough clout to offer a job to Tilly on the spot. Then he's a practicing therapist who counsels Culber in between seeing patients. Now he's a computer/AI specialist with enough clout in Starfleet that he can potentially recommend either wiping a starship computer or transferring a senior crew member. That's certainly a lot of (very powerful) hats for just one character. 

 

On 12/30/2021 at 9:45 AM, MissLucas said:

Aww, Saru and T'Rina make for the best ship ever!

Definitely the best ship!

[CarpeFelis]

6 hours ago, paigow said:

Use the cone of silence that Burnham activates on the bridge. Then use flash cards within the cone for extra security...

If Zora can read lips like HAL she can read flash cards too! Need opaque cone of silence.

Pardon the nitpick, but it annoyed me when Rillak said Tarka was flaunting protocol. The word is flout, not flaunt. Neither the writers nor anyone in the cast picked up on this?

Probably an unpopular opinion but I’ll miss Gray. I could live without Adira, though. Something about them just bugs me.

Now, where can I get a cat carrier that looks like Grudge’s? And I’m glad Book left her behind. I’d hate to see her taken along on a possible suicide mission! (Still wondering if “She is a Queen” has a literal meaning… a planet of cats somewhere?)

[Stardancer Supreme]

On 12/31/2021 at 3:09 AM, bobbyjoe said:

I’m not buying David Cronenberg’s character as a sudden softy.  I like him much better as a no-nonsense and even potentially sinister figure.  That he would just roll the dice  with an unpredictable newly sentient being having this much power over one of the reformed Federation’s most important ships— no way that fits with anything we’ve seen of him before. 

I don't see him as a softy; I see the wheels turning in his head! This man is plotting heavy and we just haven't seen how his agenda will affect Discovery and Zora yet.

[ShelleySue]

Did anyone watch Andromeda about 20 years ago?  It was another Gene Rodenberry show.  It was a long time ago and I lost interest after a few years so it's very possible I have the details wrong. First of all, the ship, Andromeda, was sent (trapped?) in the future.  But more importantly, the ship's AI control was in the form of a hologram and, this is the fuzzy part (to me), I think "she" was sentient. She had some sort of a personal attachment to the captain. Does anyone remember this?

Quick question, was it ever made clear why Michael was able to vote?  Is she a representative of something?  The last time I checked she was a starship captain, not an ambassador or president representing a planet/world.

[Quark]

I thought this was a great episode. 

The trailer for the 2nd half of the season looks amazing.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Quark

[Ceindreadh]

1 hour ago, ShelleySue said:

Did anyone watch Andromeda about 20 years ago?  It was another Gene Rodenberry show.  It was a long time ago and I lost interest after a few years so it's very possible I have the details wrong. First of all, the ship, Andromeda, was sent (trapped?) in the future.  But more importantly, the ship's AI control was in the form of a hologram and, this is the fuzzy part (to me), I think "she" was sentient. She had some sort of a personal attachment to the captain. Does anyone remember this?

 

Yes, I remember Andromeda.  As well as the ship and the hologram, IIRC, there was also an android avatar of the AI. 

When they mentioned taking Zora out of Discovery and putting her somewhere else, I was presuming that they'd do something similar and put her consciousness into an artificial body, like with Grey. 

[marinw]

1 hour ago, ShelleySue said:

Did anyone watch Andromeda about 20 years ago?  It was another Gene Rodenberry show. 

I remember that show! A little cheezy but fun. Another "Based on a concept from Gene Roddeberry" thing was "Earth:Final Conflict" with was quite good for a few seasons before going off the rails. 

[Ottis]

On 12/31/2021 at 1:09 AM, bobbyjoe said:

I’m not buying David Cronenberg’s character as a sudden softy.  I like him much better as a no-nonsense and even potentially sinister figure.  That he would just roll the dice  with an unpredictable newly sentient being having this much power over one of the reformed Federation’s most important ships— no way that fits with anything we’ve seen of him before. 

I thought I would feel that way, but I see his character as more of a "this is true, and that is not, no bullsh-t allowed" type. Sometimes what you realize is true isn't in character with what you thought before, and so you now must evolve your thinking. That's how it felt to me.

Ironically, the Federation president, who they keep portraying as sort of difficult and pedantic, is now who most seems to represent the ideals of the old Star Trek federation. Because Michael is so far down the emotional scale that she misses obvious issues, and Book is rogue. 

Who I really miss right now is Pike.

[Starchild]

4 hours ago, ShelleySue said:

Quick question, was it ever made clear why Michael was able to vote?  Is she a representative of something?  The last time I checked she was a starship captain, not an ambassador or president representing a planet/world.

I wondered the same thing, and the best I can come up with was that Starfleet got a vote (was she representing Vance maybe?).

Mind you, I don't know why the both the civilian and military arms of the Federation would get to vote, but I think it might just be a clumsy way to have Michael once again in the thick of things. After all, Earth now follows her recommendations so she's obviously awesome.

There's a pop culture review YouTube channel that refers to her as a "Space Jesus", and I can't disagree. 

[paigow]

20 hours ago, Starchild said:

There's a pop culture review YouTube channel that refers to her as a "Space Jesus", and I can't disagree. 

Should be a big stunt cast for Space Judas

[tennisgurl]

Pretty good midseason finale, the next half looks absolutely wild. Kudos to the show, I am quite a bit more invested in who is behind the anomaly then who was behind the Burn. I was worried that Book would go rogue, he is clearly not thinking straight and while its understandable that he wants to destroy the thing that destroyed his planet, but this is clearly not going to end well. Not only is he siding with a clearly sketchy guy, but even beyond Starfleet ideals its the best option. It really could be that, like the Burn, what happened was an accident and antagonizing these people who have crazy advanced tech could start a real conflict, or if it was on purpose, they could just end up escalating things with, again, people who are massively more advanced then they are. They should at least have a back up plan though they really are hostile, it doesent hurt to take precautions even if you really are coming in peace. 

Nice job on the designs for the aliens, they had some pretty unique looks, although I would still really like to hear more about some of the classic Trek races and what they're up to in the future. The president has Bajoran and Cardassian heritage, what are they up to? The Klingons? The Betazoids? The Ferengi? Are they selling overpriced Burn related tee-shirts?

At least Book isnt too far gone that he would bring Grudge to his possible suicide mission, and left her behind in a super cool steampunk cat carrier, which I would like right now. 

The Zora plot was clearly a variation on the classic Measure of a Man story, and while it didnt live up to that episode, it was still pretty good. Stamets made some good points about why Zora having feelings could be a huge problem, and while this does at least help with getting Zora to follow orders, there were still some issues that haven't really been dealt with. Grey going to Trill seems like it would be the best for both Grey and Adira, they need some time to do their own things for a bit. 

Saru and T'Rina are adorable. 

Edited January 4, 2022 by tennisgurl

[AnimeMania]

I am not so sure why the Zora problem was so either or. Either she is the ship's computer or she is dead. This right after placing another consciousness into an artificial body. If they consider Zora a sentient, one of a kind being, wouldn't killing her be equivalent to genocide. The fail safe switch could download Zora into an artificial body and upload a standard Spaceship Operating System (SOS). How functional the body is might be based on how big a threat they felt Zora was. There could be a fully autonomous body where Zora would be a standard member of the crew, all the way down to a non-mobile brain in a cube, air-gapped from any of the ship's functions.

[vibeology]

5 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I am not so sure why the Zora problem was so either or. Either she is the ship's computer or she is dead. This right after placing another consciousness into an artificial body. If they consider Zora a sentient, one of a kind being, wouldn't killing her be equivalent to genocide. The fail safe switch could download Zora into an artificial body and upload a standard Spaceship Operating System (SOS). How functional the body is might be based on how big a threat they felt Zora was. There could be a fully autonomous body where Zora would be a standard member of the crew, all the way down to a non-mobile brain in a cube, air-gapped from any of the ship's functions.

Zora said that she considered her form as the ship to be a part of her identity so they couldn't take her out of the ship without taking her identity away.

[AnimeMania]

3 hours ago, vibeology said:

Zora said that she considered her form as the ship to be a part of her identity so they couldn't take her out of the ship without taking her identity away.

Is it better to be dead or to find another way to serve her ship and her friends, even if it is in a more limited capacity. Remember the crew gave up their previous lives and their families in order to make sure that the information she contained remained available and safe from people who wanted it. Now she just plans to kill herself, why did the crew make the sacrifice to go to the future if that is the outcome. Zora should be willing to give up just as much to insure that she can still provide protection for the crew as they had to, to protect her.

[salaydouk]

On 12/30/2021 at 9:45 AM, MissLucas said:

• Clearly the whole discussion about Zora's status was this show's take on 'Measure of a Man' but it falls short of that one's finesse.

I literally was screaming at my TV stating how can Cronenberg’s character gut/kill Zora out of existence.   That that episode "Measure of a Man" create the precedent with in the ST universe that AI sentience made the AI equal to a biological life and therefore had the right to continued existence?  He could argue to transfer the AI life, but could not destroy it. 

 

On 1/2/2022 at 10:46 AM, Stardancer Supreme said:

I don't see him as a softy; I see the wheels turning in his head! This man is plotting heavy and we just haven't seen how his agenda will affect Discovery and Zora yet.

Agreed, I have been running on the hypothesis that the character is the current head of Section 31. 

 

On 1/3/2022 at 11:09 AM, Ottis said:

Who I really miss right now is Pike.

No Kidding!  That character and his portrayer(Mount) made season 2.  Also that character/actor would have more of the necessary gravitas/experience to be taken seriously for some of the diplomatic aspects that have come up the last couple if episodes.  (Heck I think Suru would have been better then Burnham.)   

Edited January 8, 2022 by salaydouk

[Joimiaroxeu]

Is Dr. Manhattan now a part of the Star Trek universe? There was a guy at the big meeting who looked just like him, except he was wearing clothes, lol.

I'm mad on Grudge's behalf. Book left her with someone who he knows isn't really a cat person. 🤨

[paigow]

9 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I'm mad on Grudge's behalf. Book left her with someone who he knows isn't really a cat person. 🤨

Maybe Burnham will pass Grudge to the Butterfly People

[Stardancer Supreme]

On 1/8/2022 at 6:05 PM, paigow said:

Maybe Burnham will pass Grudge to the Butterfly People

Now you know the Queen will bend Michael to her will.  Starfleet ain't got nothing on a Feline Overlord!

[LaylaGirl]

On 1/3/2022 at 8:50 AM, Ceindreadh said:

Did anyone watch Andromeda about 20 years ago?  It was another Gene Rodenberry show.  It was a long time ago and I lost interest after a few years so it's very possible I have the details wrong. First of all, the ship, Andromeda, was sent (trapped?) in the future.  But more importantly, the ship's AI control was in the form of a hologram and, this is the fuzzy part (to me), I think "she" was sentient. She had some sort of a personal attachment to the captain. Does anyone remember this?

I remember watching this in syndication and on the SciFi channel. The AI was nick named Rommie and was played by Lexa Doig. She was an android and was an avatar for the the AI.

[millennium]

On 1/8/2022 at 5:55 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Is Dr. Manhattan now a part of the Star Trek universe?

I wish.  He's the only one who could fix this piece of shit.

Is Booker an appendage of Michael Burnham now?   Everywhere she goes, he's there too.  She gets called down to engineering, he reports along with her.  Why?   He's not an officer.  He has no business there.   Burnham attends a high-level Starfleet meeting, once more Booker is right there with her.   Again, why?   Oh that's right, he's the boyfriend.   The boyfriend who lately has been interfering with her command decisions, including trying to exploit his position to influence how Starfleet makes contact with what is potentially the most powerful race it has yet encountered.

I can't. stand. Burnham.  Even so, it pisses me off to see a female command figure portrayed as being diminished by the guy she's sleeping with.   It makes her look weak and needy.   And entirely undeserving of the responsibilities granted to her. 

On 12/30/2021 at 12:45 PM, MissLucas said:

• Most *Cringe* goes to the woke-brigade. I normally don't use the W-word but it's well deserved for their storming into a meeting they were not invited to and then making idiotic comparisons. No, you two doofuses - your otherness is in no way comparable to a sentient AI. Ego much?

 

Has Starfleet discipline, along with all respect for rank, been cast aside aboard Discovery?   Not only is Booker riding shotgun on Burnham's every move to tell her what to do (and to make her feel guilty and sad if she doesn't), now these two jokers (one a sorta/kinda Starfleet Academy cadet, the other just a ship's guest) are crashing formal discussions regarding the fate of the newly-woke Zora ("It feels good to be seen."  Ugh.)

This show.   It's only a matter of time until the food replicators start demanding recognition and protesting that they are tasked to turn shit into apples.

[millennium]

On 1/31/2022 at 3:21 AM, LaylaGirl said:

I remember watching this in syndication and on the SciFi channel. The AI was nick named Rommie and was played by Lexa Doig. She was an android and was an avatar for the the AI.

I remember liking Trance Gemini until they made her an avatar of a star.  Tyr Anasazi was another cool character until they messed that up too. 

Once upon a time it seemed every show I watched was a syndicated genre series filmed in Canada.

Edited February 21, 2022 by millennium

[Paloma]

On 12/31/2021 at 10:31 AM, dwmarch said:

Starfleet HQ does not seem like a great place to hold a meeting like this. Everyone has to stand, staring into a well with virtual screens in it.

The design of that place made no sense, especially for a meeting of representatives of planets who are supposed to be equal. Who determined which level each representative would stand on, and isn't it likely that those on the lower levels would feel disrespected?