S19.E08: Couch Couture

[raven]

Finally getting around to watching this now and I don't need to see GeoffreyNipple.  That is all.

[Deskisamess]

1 hour ago, BlueHawk said:

I truly do not get why the Project Runway designers aren't able to properly dress women of size.

I think most could do a decent job, if given a decent amount of time for fitting. It is seriously more complex than fitting a body that is 5'10" with no boobs, and no body fat. The challenges should all have similar body styles. Mixing in one 170 pound large busted/large behind gal with 105 pound gals is just unfair. The needs/time/knowledge are very different. 
A level playing field would make it more competitive.

[sharkerbaby]

1 hour ago, BlueHawk said:

I truly do not get why the Project Runway designers aren't able to properly dress women of size.

 I recommend they tune into The Voice which nearly every season has large and extra large contestants and the wardrobe people manage to find/create beautiful well fitting outfits for all every single week. Sometimes multiple outfits for each person on each show. Those contestants look great in the clothes.

And the people who put the looks together do not claim to be "designers" like Project Runways bumblers do.

Agree with those who call for Elaine to be removed from judgeship. Brandon has some merits but he's certainly no Michael Kors-- whose humor and biting bon mots are sorely needed on this version of the show.  

While the runway garments themselves  frequently provide (mostly unintended) humour a bit of wit from the panel would feel like fresh water in the desert!

 

Re: the assertion that either all designers or none of them should have plus size models... Unpopular opinion but I'm thrilled that this version of project runway does it this way.  The designers know in advance that the models are not all 6' boobless stick women so should be well prepared and versed on how to design, fit, and dress women of varied shapes and sizes.  The original version put forth a plus sized episode every season that they condescendingly dubbed the "every woman" challenge and invariably we would be treated to grimaces, groans, slumping shoulders, varying utterances of disdain, and mostly horrendous designs.  And the response from the views and posters here would be disgust at the shear elitist and haughtiness of the designers and endless complaints of the their reactions and creations.

Perhaps this is just a lesson to show how people are never happy.

eta:  I forgot to mention that I too hope that Elaine gets replaced.  I find her critiques rather disjointed, irrelevant, and somewhat confounding.  She definitely chooses favorite designers and gives them their weekly tongue bath whether they missed the challenge mark or not.  As far as Nina, call me shocked that I appreciate her judging approach the most.  She was by far my least favorite on original recipe.  I don't mind Brandon but I do like early Michael Kors better, later Michael Kors seemed to be more interested in quipping a snarky sound bite rather than giving feedback.

Edited December 12, 2021 by sharkerbaby

[RedbirdNelly]

On 12/9/2021 at 9:45 PM, littlebennysmom said:

"I sell lots of these!"

Probably not the thing to let slip for an original design challenge, Octavio.

The pink feathered pumps, lmao! 

 

I was thinking the same thing. Obviously designers are going to reuse ideas they already have in their head and have done before. It's a speed design/sew show. But I don't see why you would want to call that out. They are questioning your design so to point out "this is not the result of me having to think quickly but is actually an idea I just redid" doesn't encourage a judge to want to keep you. I also thought the super long sleeve thing didn't fit the challenge. If it was avant guard (sp) then I would kind of see it. It's not. I might want a slightly oversized sleeve for comfy-ness but 6 foot long--no thanks. 

[RedbirdNelly]

I loved Zayden as a person but am puzzled why he didn't think about his model when he made his design. The challenge was the perfect challenge for loose fitting garments. No he didn't need to make a tent but to go for form fitting with his model was just a bad idea. He could have done something closer to Aaron's approach and made it flatter the model without having to deal with so many fitting challenges. It would have still fitted the brief unlike other challenges where a loose, comfy top would get you criticized.

[amarante]

10 hours ago, DaphneCat said:

 

Right, you don't have time (or energy) to take the rollers out of your hair, but you wouldn't just grab that practical bag you haul all your junk in that's probably sitting right next to your keys.   You'd go rooting around in your closet for your sequined evening bag.

Rollers worn all day outside the home with a little scarf actually used to be a thing when I was growing up in pre-gentrified Brooklyn. 😂 Many people didn't have home dryers at that point - especially the kinds of bonnets that would fit over the large rollers - some actually used cans on the top for that extra bouffant look - which would then be teased and lacquered.

So I get the cultural reference but not sure if the designer actually did. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by amarante

[bitchin camaro]

2 hours ago, sharkerbaby said:

 

Re: the assertion that either all designers or none of them should have plus size models... Unpopular opinion but I'm thrilled that this version of project runway does it this way.  The designers know in advance that the models are not all 6' boobless stick women so should be well prepared and versed on how to design, fit, and dress women of varied shapes and sizes.  The original version put forth a plus sized episode every season that they condescendingly dubbed the "every woman" challenge and invariably we would be treated to grimaces, groans, slumping shoulders, varying utterances of disdain, and mostly horrendous designs.  And the response from the views and posters here would be disgust at the shear elitist and haughtiness of the designers and endless complaints of the their reactions and creations.

Perhaps this is just a lesson to show how people are never happy.

eta:  I forgot to mention that I too hope that Elaine gets replaced.  I find her critiques rather disjointed, irrelevant, and somewhat confounding.  She definitely chooses favorite designers and gives them their weekly tongue bath whether they missed the challenge mark or not.  As far as Nina, call me shocked that I appreciate her judging approach the most.  She was by far my least favorite on original recipe.  I don't mind Brandon but I do like early Michael Kors better, later Michael Kors seemed to be more interested in quipping a snarky sound bite rather than giving feedback.

I hear you, but I still feel like the designers who draw a larger model are always playing a different challenge than the others. Yes they should be able to dress plus size models but when everyone else gets to focus on design vs having to spend more time tailoring to a nonstandard shape, it’s not a fair fight. Pick a size, any size, let them all design for it, and then it’s a truer comparison. 

And as a plus size woman, seeing the larger models garments always just happening(!?!) to end up in the bottom just makes me feel like nobody can make larger women look decent so go wear your muumuus and leave real fashion to the Glamazons. It doesn’t feel inclusive to me. 
 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by bitchin camaro

[Ms Blue Jay]

7 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

All I could think about is how those sequins would scrape up against my inner arms. So relaxing. 

Materials like that give me an immediate allergic reaction.  I feel like I can't be the only one.

[carrps]

1 hour ago, amarante said:

 - some actually used cans on the top for that extra bouffant look - which would then be teased and lacquered.

Orange juice cans (when they were cans). Or soup cans if you were going for the extra extra bouffant look.

[Tabbygirl521]

On 12/10/2021 at 10:36 AM, retired watcher said:

Some of the designers do not understand the word comfortable. It what universe is a garter belt and stockings comfortable. Only a man.

Speaking as someone who hit puberty before pantyhose were even invented, i recoiled in horror at the sight. Not one bit comfortable. And if you don’t have slim legs, you’ll enjoy your thigh meat puffing up over the top of the stockings and rubbing together. Super attractive and definitely comfy.

I cackled when Nina (?) said she just didn’t know how many women would could actually pull off the winning look. Honey, that is true of every single thing that came down the runway. 

[Tabbygirl521]

2 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I loved Zayden as a person but am puzzled why he didn't think about his model when he made his design. The challenge was the perfect challenge for loose fitting garments. No he didn't need to make a tent but to go for form fitting with his model was just a bad idea. He could have done something closer to Aaron's approach and made it flatter the model without having to deal with so many fitting challenges. It would have still fitted the brief unlike other challenges where a loose, comfy top would get you criticized.

Also I’m not sure how many of us want to peel off a skin tight jumpsuit every time we need to pee. 

[adore]

I must be the only one who thinks Aaron is supremely overrated. His stuff is kind of meek-chic? I don't know.  The monochromatic fuzzy oatmeal look isn't offensive, but it's also not particularly thoughtful. It’s almost like couch potato Eileen Fisher. I also hate how he's always underlining his experience, spouting trivia (e.g. The Just Skating By episode) and casually offering up ungenerous critiques of the other designers. His interactions with his betters are ingratiating and cringey. His tirade last week was probbably worse that Meg’s meltdown week 1.

 

Glad Octavio is gone. Even Ariana Grande retired the oversized sweatshirt look. Those awful pink shoes should share the accessories scrap pile with the hair curlers.

 

 

 

[candall]

4 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I loved Zayden as a person but am puzzled why he didn't think about his model when he made his design. The challenge was the perfect challenge for loose fitting garments. No he didn't need to make a tent but to go for form fitting with his model was just a bad idea. He could have done something closer to Aaron's approach and made it flatter the model without having to deal with so many fitting challenges. It would have still fitted the brief unlike other challenges where a loose, comfy top would get you criticized.

Excellent point.  Zayden's model, Danaria, would have looked fabulous in Aaron's cashmere trousers and nubby cardigan.  (Plus an easygoing tank top and a damn B-R-A.)

.

[30 Helens]

4 hours ago, bitchin camaro said:

Yes they should be able to dress plus size models but when everyone else gets to focus on design vs having to spend more time tailoring to a nonstandard shape, it’s not a fair fight.

I agree with you. It’s like Squid Game, umbrellas vs. triangles. At least Zayden didn’t have to face the firing squad.

[marybennet]

Two people have said something about Eileen Fisher and Aaron's design, and in truth I think groovified Eileen Fisher was a little bit what the challenge was asking for and what Aaron and Chasity both were showing.  If Kristina's hadn't been a mix of prints, it, too, might have been seen as a little like EF in terms of its flow; Eileen Fisher loves the flow but loves the monochrome more.  Since I like Eileen Fisher, that's not a bad thing to me.  I do think Chasity succeeded in modernizing it a bit more than Aaron did.  But they both (really, all 3) did work that seemed pretty appealing.

Edited December 12, 2021 by marybennet
Edited because I'd have failed the spelling test

[watch2much]

I wish they would all have similar models again. or, if not, then stop the random draw each week and rotate all the models thru each designer.  

[sharkerbaby]

I guess I just find it distasteful to blame a model for a designer's failure rather than putting the responsibility squarely on his or her lack of creativity, vision or talent.  Completely putting aside the fact that I'm pretty sure this show's largest model is a size 10 so not some outlandishly grotesques size that one would only find in a side show circus.

[Deskisamess]

1 hour ago, sharkerbaby said:

I guess I just find it distasteful to blame a model for a designer's failure rather than putting the responsibility squarely on his or her lack of creativity, vision or talent.  Completely putting aside the fact that I'm pretty sure this show's largest model is a size 10 so not some outlandishly grotesques size that one would only find in a side show circus.

That last full figured model is much larger than a 10. Her bottom half is a 18-20 at least.

I don't care how talented a designer is, you can't well fit a full-figured model with just one short fitting.
That's what makes this method of all thin and one plus-size model unfair, and an unlevel playing field.

[Ms Blue Jay]

You guys made me remember Flowy Pants from Happy Endings.  The show was so ahead of its time!

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

double post

Edited December 13, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, sharkerbaby said:

I guess I just find it distasteful to blame a model for a designer's failure rather than putting the responsibility squarely on his or her lack of creativity, vision or talent.  Completely putting aside the fact that I'm pretty sure this show's largest model is a size 10 so not some outlandishly grotesques size that one would only find in a side show circus.

Agree with you....... Every week, a few people get plus size models, and others don't.  Some designers can make it work, and others don't.

PR is never going to back to having all the models be stick thin.  It won't happen - we're past that now.  It reminds me of how Fenty arrived and is putting Victoria's Secret out of business.  VS refused to evolve and kept using the same stick thin 18 year old Eastern European models forever, and then what happened?  Fenty arrived and embraced diversity of race and skin colour and look and shape and plus size and age etc. etc. etc. and nobody cares about VS anymore.  It's 2021.

Quote

As the largest retailer of lingerie in the United States, the brand has struggled since 2016 due to shifting consumer preferences and ongoing controversy surrounding corporate leadership's business practices. - Wikipedia on VS

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[izabella]

Looking at the runway, I was confused on what they each thought the challenge was. 

On 12/9/2021 at 2:43 PM, aquarian1 said:

The designers are challenged to solve one of fashion's eternal struggles: if comfortable can really be chic

I think the idea was pandemic-inspired lounge wear that you can wear to run a quick errand or appear on Zoom for work, chic and luxe.   If so, I would have liked to see that on the runway!  I was expecting more sweaters and hoodies in general, done in rich fabrics and patterns.  But, we got sequins, high heels, stockings and garters, slip dress and robe...

I liked Chasity's harem pants, and I loved Aaron's mohair sweater.  Kristina's version of a caftan (and pants?) was a pretty explosion of color, which I appreciated, and it looked comfortable and fun to wear, without the headdress.

I also liked the idea of Octavio's puffy top.  Was that a sweatshirt or a jacket?  Depending on what the fabric feels like, it could be soft and cozy to curl up in, like in a marshmallow.  No blanket required!  His presentation with the garters was totally wrong for this challenge.

Edited December 13, 2021 by izabella

[Mahfouz]

One positive for me from this episode was that the unwarranted love for Mimi has limits. Not even her awesome presence and stony gaze were enough to pull Mean Mr. Mustache's creation out of the poop pile. Good riddance MMM.

I think one of the issues the designers face, especially when it comes to larger models, is that most of them, frankly, don't look at a woman as being sexually attractive. I know the idea of the male gaze is a not-positive aspect of society but it's odd that for a large portion of the contestants they make their models (esp. plus-sized ones) look LESS attractive than when they were walking into the work room. Obviously fashion does not always equal being attractive to the opposite sex (or anybody for that matter) but when I watch this show I judge the designs by how attractive I find the models before/after. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Mahfouz
typo

[bkathi]

I applaud PR for using models of all sizes.  I think it is rare that a designer can focus only only on size 0 clothing.  Even Christian is known for beautifully dressing an "average" woman - I would definitely reach out to him if I won the lottery.  

[SuprSuprElevated]

Fat, abdominous, adipose, blubbery, buttery, buxom, chubby, compact, corpulent, double-chinned, dumpy, embonpoint, endomorphic, fattish, fleshy, fruitful, greasy, gross, heavy, heavyset, jowly, loose-jowled, obese, oily, oleaginous, overweight, paunchy, plump, podgy, porcine, portly, potbellied, profitable, pudgy, pyknic, roly-poly, rotund, sebaceous people aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

As a member of ^this club, I prefer to be clothed (in most cases) when encountering humanity.  I and those of my ilk are going to need people inclined to designing garments, to be able to do so, for ALL folks, not just SOME folks.

If tptb in the fashion, clothing, and entertainment industries continue to only recognize some unrealistic fantasy of the human form, then we shall have unwanted consequences of nekkidness.

We can do better.

[littlebennysmom]

On 12/11/2021 at 7:18 PM, carrps said:

Is this the same one about the Bros restaurant in Italy (Lecce, IIRC)? If not, I'll just share this:

 

 

Yes, the same place!!

I thought that pic was a dripping eyeball when I first saw it, but apparently it's a mold of the chef's MOUTH 😆😆😆  With citrus foam!

[30 Helens]

Gross.

[carrps]

15 hours ago, littlebennysmom said:

Yes, the same place!!

I thought that pic was a dripping eyeball when I first saw it, but apparently it's a mold of the chef's MOUTH 😆😆😆  With citrus foam!

And you can buy that same chef's mouth, er, vessel in their gift shop!

 

[Ohiopirate02]

On 12/10/2021 at 5:49 PM, SuprSuprElevated said:

In another vein, why is it so difficult to design and FIT clothing for larger women?  I realize that the fayshun industry would like to operate on the notion that all they really need to do is manufacture clothing that would favor an ironing board, but there really is more to the garment industry.  I can't speak to worldwide statistics, but I believe that more than 50% of the female population in the USA is at or north of a size 14. To blame the model for the horrible fit of Zayden's garment is maddening.

A lot of this has to do with fashion designers not utilizing proper undergarments.  Designers send models down the runway with their breasts unsecure and that throws off the look.  Christian is guilty of this for his shows. When Christian dresses women like Neicy Nash, her body is banging because Neicy is wearing the proper undergarments.  Zayden fitted his model and sent her down the runway without securing the girls, just like the rest of the designers who have had this model in previous episodes.  I don't know why the show will not allow her to wear her regular bras or partner with a brand like Elomi or Panache or Curvy Kate to provide bras for their models with breasts larger than a C cup.  

I do wish labels would take the Universal Standard approach to clothing.  Their sizing philosophy is--"if the average American size is 18, should that not be considered a medium?"  

[hookedontv]

I applaud Project Runway for including models of all sizes. However, as a plus sized gal myself, I would rather see an entire challenge focus on either typical models or plus sized models to even the playing field for the designers. 

I for one struggle to find "normal" looking clothes to wear. So many average stores/brands carry plus sized clothes that are completely bedazzled and have an unusual amount of animal prints and just really really busy prints. I honestly just want classic, timeless fashion that I can wear for several years. Give me a black skirt and a classic cardigan over loud, giant print moo moos. Thank you. 

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, hookedontv said:

I applaud Project Runway for including models of all sizes. However, as a plus sized gal myself, I would rather see an entire challenge focus on either typical models or plus sized models to even the playing field for the designers. 

I for one struggle to find "normal" looking clothes to wear. So many average stores/brands carry plus sized clothes that are completely bedazzled and have an unusual amount of animal prints and just really really busy prints. I honestly just want classic, timeless fashion that I can wear for several years. Give me a black skirt and a classic cardigan over loud, giant print moo moos. Thank you. 

If it's in your budget, Universal Standard has classic timeless fashion.  They go up to a size 40. But yeah, plus sized fashion is a joke at many retailers with them forcing women to buy hideous clothes based solely on what their CEO wants to wear.  Of course with this show, we would be stuck with a plus sized challenge sponsored by Torrid.

[backgroundnoise]

Don't the model cards have accurate measurements on them?  I know the actual fittings are infrequent, but they have larger size dress forms.  If the model cards have all measurements, not just the main three but things like shoulder to bust, bust to waist, etc., designers shouldn't be go unprepared. to fit a model.  But that would take skill to create a pattern correctly.  I keep remembering an old Sewing with Nancy episode where she showed how to take a basic pattern and adjust it with a ruler and protractor to fit perfectly.

[Ohiopirate02]

12 hours ago, backgroundnoise said:

Don't the model cards have accurate measurements on them?  I know the actual fittings are infrequent, but they have larger size dress forms.  If the model cards have all measurements, not just the main three but things like shoulder to bust, bust to waist, etc., designers shouldn't be go unprepared. to fit a model.  But that would take skill to create a pattern correctly.  I keep remembering an old Sewing with Nancy episode where she showed how to take a basic pattern and adjust it with a ruler and protractor to fit perfectly.

For any bust measurements, they can vary depending on what the model was wearing when they were taken.  Loose fitting tank top vs. tight fitting tank.  I assume she was not wearing a bra when her measurements were taken nor using any form of tape to keep the girls in place.  There are also different types of breasts which can throw off going from a solid dress form to fitting on an actual body when the girls are kept unsupported.  Which is why if the show is going to continue using plus sized models they need to allow the models to wear their bras throughout the process.  

[vibeology]

5 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

For any bust measurements, they can vary depending on what the model was wearing when they were taken.  Loose fitting tank top vs. tight fitting tank.  I assume she was not wearing a bra when her measurements were taken nor using any form of tape to keep the girls in place.  There are also different types of breasts which can throw off going from a solid dress form to fitting on an actual body when the girls are kept unsupported.  Which is why if the show is going to continue using plus sized models they need to allow the models to wear their bras throughout the process.  

Also, breasts may change size depending on where the model is in her cycle. Enough that it would throw off a perfect fit.

[DaphneCat]

18 hours ago, backgroundnoise said:

Don't the model cards have accurate measurements on them?  I know the actual fittings are infrequent, but they have larger size dress forms.  If the model cards have all measurements, not just the main three but things like shoulder to bust, bust to waist, etc., designers shouldn't be go unprepared. to fit a model.  But that would take skill to create a pattern correctly.  I keep remembering an old Sewing with Nancy episode where she showed how to take a basic pattern and adjust it with a ruler and protractor to fit perfectly.

Yes, being somewhat endowed in the chest department, I'm quite familiar with altering a pattern in the bust.  However, many people (who are not sewers) seem to think it's just a matter of taking a regular pattern and making it bigger.  You usually have to add darts and change the angle of the bust - particularly if you don't have broad shoulders (or in my particular case, have more narrow than average shoulders.)   You also have to be careful that you don't end up with what essentially looks like a maternity smock as not all women carry weight in their stomach.  While I haven't really done it, I would guess it's also probably pretty complicated to add  to the hips/butt without necessarily increasing the waist in the same proportion.  Adapting a design is a skill that I really think ALL designers need to learn, especially since - as I was explaining to Mr. Cat - there is a huge difference between being able to draw a picture of a garment you want to create and having the technical know-how to actually create such a garment for an actual person.

[millennium]

On 12/10/2021 at 7:16 PM, Lamb18 said:

Now he's wearing a crown! Is he channeling the Burger King! After all the BK has a red mustache.

Next he will be in red pigtails in honor of Wendy's.

The close-ups of his fleshy, sweaty face with the red mustache and the sleazy leather crown were almost more than I could stomach.

If Cindy was on Cosentix, what was Geoffrey on?

[Leeds]

3 hours ago, millennium said:

If Cindy was on Cosentix, what was Geoffrey on?

I'm not sure, but I think he could benefit from starting a support group with Eeyore.

And the producers really need to sit the judges down and have them practice saying "Chasity".  Yes, it's unfortunate that her parents gave her that name, but at least respect it.

[Leeds]

On 12/10/2021 at 1:09 PM, amarante said:

 

While I don't think large women need to be dressed by Omar the Tentmaker I do think the goal of clothing is to flatter the wearer in some way. 

For me the goal of clothing is not to be naked.

 

On 12/17/2021 at 6:08 AM, vibeology said:

Also, breasts may change size depending on where the model is in her cycle. Enough that it would throw off a perfect fit.

That's assuming a stick thin model even has a cycle.

 

[Passing Strange]

On 12/16/2021 at 8:03 PM, backgroundnoise said:

Don't the model cards have accurate measurements on them? 

In the past designers commented that sometimes the measurements they were given weren't accurate. I remember at least one instance where a designer had a major problem because the garment was two small due to incorrect measurements.

[Leeds]

I'm reading an old (Sept 2019) copy of Tatler, which contains the attached ad for Gucci.  It immediately reminded me of Zayden's look in the Couch Couture challenge.  The judges thought his look was so much better when he undid the ties.  It makes me think that:

Zayden was plagiarizing

The judges don't keep up with top designers

The Gucci stylist should be shot for putting the model in super thick stockings with those shoes.

(I can't copy Zayden's look because the file is too big, but if you google "Zayden couch couture" it should come up, if anyone is interested.)