S03.E02: Mass in Time of War

[TexasGal]

Quote

Kendall tries to get his sibling, as well as Stewy and Sandi, on his side.  Fearing his legal situation, Greg asks Ewan for help.

Airdate: 10.24.2021

[Jordan Baker]

I might have laughed out loud when James Cromwell said "That'll do."  

[BlackberryJam]

Gramps hires Boone from Animal House to be Greg’s lawyer. I love it.

Marcia’s back, as are Stewy and Sandy, sort of. Kendall’s word salad was cracking me up.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I need help understanding what Logan was saying about Gerri at the end there. What is he planning? And do Greg's gramps and his lawyer want Greg to spy on Waystar/Logan?

I love Marcia. She really took advantage of that opportunity. I loved her lawyer laying out her case and Logan's lawyer looking gobsmacked.

Poor Conner. "The three of us...and Conner." "You're not wanted." "Hasn't he heard enough of that his life?"

Kendall sure went off on his siblings at the end there. I don't think that was very wise. They could still go over to his side later. OTOH, if Kendall starts winning and they want to go over to his side then, they might not be able to. Kendall might think they had their chance and threw it away.

When Roman first got to Kendall's, he really did look surprised to see Shiv there. Was that an act? Because it seemed like he was there to prevent Shiv from going over to Kendall's side. Turns out those doughnuts were pretty relevant. Also, the risk of eating a doughnut that had a 2% chance of being poisoned is a pretty good metaphor for the risk that Kendall was asking his siblings to take.

Good stuff between Tom and Greg and Tom and Shiv and Roman and Gerri, as per usual.

[Ms Blue Jay]

FYI, Kieran Culkin is hosting Saturday Night Live on November 6.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[BlackberryJam]

I think Logan was telling Shiv he was suiting up Gerri to take the fall for everything, leaving Shiv clean. Then again, the Roys only talk in metaphors and hints. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

I think Logan was telling Shiv he was suiting up Gerri to take the fall for everything, leaving Shiv clean. Then again, the Roys only talk in metaphors and hints. 

I had to watch it twice, (and with captioning), but that's what I thought too.  

[DoubleUTeeEff]

Thanks, that's what it sounded like but I couldn't be sure. Makes sense since Shiv is "clean" having had no official position with the company so far. Now the question is does Roman know? Because he had a stink face on at the end there. Maybe he knows Shiv's going to be it and he's losing out to her. This could get interesting with a Roman/Gerri alliance vs. Shiv.

[txhorns79]

23 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I had to watch it twice, (and with captioning), but that's what I thought too.  

Yeah, I thought this as well, but it was said in such an abstract way that for all I know, Logan was telling Shiv he was going to make her President in order to have her take the fall. 

 

33 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

 

I love Marcia. She really took advantage of that opportunity. I loved her lawyer laying out her case and Logan's lawyer looking gobsmacked.

Marcia is one tough cookie.  I'd almost say she should take over the company, but I know she would not want to deal with that shit storm in the fuck factory, so kudos to her for taking advantage of an opportunity. 

[RedDelicious]

What were they talking about when Shiv said “I was 15”? I missed that part of the sibling summit. I feel like they were sorting out who knew what and maybe Shiv had been involved in something she shouldn’t have been at a young age? 

On a side note it’s weird to see who has gained weight (like most of us did) and lost weight during the pandemic / hiatus. Also I like Tom’s freckles 😉

Greg is annoying me. It seems like Ewan is setting him up to be in a position of power with his subtle indications that he might be on his way out. A final fuck off to Logan if you will.

[caitmcg]

24 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

What were they talking about when Shiv said “I was 15”? I missed that part of the sibling summit. I feel like they were sorting out who knew what and maybe Shiv had been involved in something she shouldn’t have been at a young age? 

They were saying that everyone (meaning all of them) knew about what was being covered up from way back because of the way “Uncle Mo” and his cronies talked and joked. Shiv basically said she didn’t know and was too young to understand what all that suggested except on the personal level that the kids should avoid putting themselves in situations where these pervy guys could prey on them (“Don’t get in the pool with Uncle Mo”).

[RedDelicious]

1 minute ago, caitmcg said:

They were saying that everyone (meaning all of them) knew about what was being covered up from way back because of the way “Uncle Mo” and his cronies talked and joked. Shiv basically said she didn’t know and was too young to understand what all that suggested except on the personal level that the kids should avoid putting themselves in situations where these pervy guys could prey on them (“Don’t get in the pool with Uncle Mo”).

Thank you!

[Lady S.]

There's a lot going on here, but I'm amused to know Roman's siblings know about his weird sexual hang-ups, which I guess shouldn't be surprising. Interesting that he in effect covered for Shiv to Logan later, when she was clearly the one most ready to leave Logan if she'd felt Kendall's offer was worth it to her.

I know all the siblings have shares but it still felt like a sign of the desperate times to see both sides courting Connor's loyalty, especially Logan.

Really glad to see Marcia back, and sounds like she has not forgotten Kendall's car accident but Logan is reluctant to use it.

[aghst]

Kendall is trying to juggle a lot of balls.  He could drop the dime on Logan with Greg's papers, he could cut a deal with the siblings or he could cut a deal with Stewy and Sandy.

Or all of the above.

He seemed to be really counting on the siblings agreeing to join him.  He was right, and Gerri agreed, that if they all came out jointly against Logan, they'd kill any chance he has of retaining control of the company.

Maybe Conor was the only one who wasn't ready to betray the father.  For Shiv and Roman, the notion of Kendall having the top seat was a dealbreaker.  For whatever reason, both of them really want it, as does Kendall.  They were all spoiled all their lives -- you see them riding an elephant on the estate in the opening montage now -- and Kendall at least worked his way up through the company, though very fast rise probably, and Shiv cut her own path outside of the company.

Roman hasn't done as much but he could have just been content with the money he already had.  Kieran Caulkin says Roman won't have his brothers or sister over him in the company.

Maybe it speaks to their ambitions but when they were arguing about who'd be in charge, it seemed like siblings but adolescents fighting over a toy or over being their parents' favorite.

Ultimately, it may just be that spoiled rich kids grow up to be spoiled rich adults, with no complicated motivations like drive or ambition, just getting what they think is theirs.  The Roy kids may all think Waystar Royco is theirs.

 

We don't know if Kendall cut a deal with Stewy and Sandy in the limo but I don't know why they'd agree to letting the Roy kids control the company, not even go to shareholder votes.  Unless Kendall promised him so much money that they'd be willing to walk away or they just control the board.

Kendall made an interesting assessment of Waystar's past and future prospects.  He says the company has had a corrosive effect on democracy so there is money to be made by becoming a trustee media source.  Not sure how that would make them more valuable than Big Tech or for that matter, other large media companies with large news divisions.

He's also right that they all knew, growing up, that there were creepy people running some of Waystar's businesses and they were warned as well as instinctively knowing that there was wrongdoing going on.  They may not have known the details, as Shiv was claiming but they knew something was off.

So will that protect Shiv if she's the public face of Waystar and the Roy family?  Kendall says her teats protect her and give her credibility because of the sex scandals.  Supposedly Gerri wasn't involved at all with the Cruises business but Logan may be thinking that she was still a high-ranking officer at Waystar so she knew or probably should have known.  That is what he's dangling at Shiv but she may not necessarily be immune.

Logan wanted Marcia back for the optics (and was willing to pay for having her back at his side), to show a united front of family.  But when they land in front of the paparazzi, it's Shiv whom he wants to be hugging for the photos, again for the optics.

 

[Lady S.]

8 minutes ago, aghst said:

Maybe it speaks to their ambitions but when they were arguing about who'd be in charge, it seemed like siblings but adolescents fighting over a toy or over being their parents' favorite.

I don't think it was a coincidence that the sibling meeting was written to take place in a kid's room.

[Ellaria]

Glad that Marcia is back - and with significant demands - in order to present a united front. She clearly makes the rest of them a bit uncomfortable and I love that.

9 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

 Then again, the Roys only talk in metaphors and hints. 

Which is why I need to watch every episode twice...once with closed captioning on.

6 hours ago, aghst said:

Maybe it speaks to their ambitions but when they were arguing about who'd be in charge, it seemed like siblings but adolescents fighting over a toy or over being their parents' favorite.

Ultimately, it may just be that spoiled rich kids grow up to be spoiled rich adults, with no complicated motivations like drive or ambition, just getting what they think is theirs.  The Roy kids may all think Waystar Royco is theirs.

I wouldn't trust any of the Roy kids to run a hot dog stand. Their sense of entitlement and insecurities make it difficult to properly assess their abilities to run any type of organization much less a world-wide conglomerate. It IS about getting what they think is theirs. Each of them looks at their siblings as unworthy competition for the top spot.

Regardless, Logan has no intention of letting Shiv control anything. Her smile in the limo at the end tells me that she truly doesn't understand the depth of his ruthlessness.

I don't see that any of this works out well for Kendall, despite his intentions. He seems reluctant or unable to see possible outcomes and consequences, even as Lisa Arthur was instructing him to do just that. Hoping that he soon finds somewhere else to camp out so he can leave Rava's apartment.

No one is concerned that Greg has disappeared into the night? Does he still have the papers or are they with Kendall? Boone is nearly unrecognizable (as anyone other than Santa Claus).

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Ellaria Sand

[cardigirl]

This season has felt muted to me so far.  Not quite as sharp or provocative. Maybe because it's the same territory they've been going over for a couple of years now, who is going to get Waystar Royco?  I'm team Gerri at this point only because Shiv has worn me out. And because I like Roman better than Shiv. Sue me. 

Poor Connor.  Left out again. I guess because he's only a half-brother to the other three. I would like to see him surprise us all. LOL! Or, turn his back on the whole lot of them and become truly happy.  Doubt the show will let his character do that. 

I loved last season, and I know the pandemic made us all wait and made them have to take a longer break than they had planned, but so far, I'm not seeing anything new yet. Hope the pace breaks open next week. 

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by cardigirl

[Blakeston]

Biggest laugh of the episode - Shiv has her father listed in her phone with Saddam Hussein's photo. 😆

Second biggest laugh - how Kendall would list the reasons that Logan needs to be taken down, and Logan being evil and destroying the country and the planet would be listed last, like a total afterthought

[cloeymoon]

8 hours ago, Lady S. said:

Really glad to see Marcia back, and sounds like she has not forgotten Kendall's car accident but Logan is reluctant to use it.

She was amazing this episode, good for her... I was wondering how/if the accident was going to reappear at all because no way Logan would bring it up since he did the covering up. Not sure that it will go farther than being mentioned this episode but anything is possible with this bunch.

[RedDelicious]

My big laugh of the episode was Connor saying they flew home scheduled (earning a grunt from Logan) but <sarcasm> they had movies and heavily refrigerated cheeses 😆

[cardigirl]

24 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

My big laugh of the episode was Connor saying they flew home scheduled (earning a grunt from Logan) but <sarcasm> they had movies and heavily refrigerated cheeses 😆

I liked when Roman touched all of Kendall's daughter's stuff.  😄

[SHD]

Marcia meeting Logan in the lobby...”Those f*cking kids of yours...”

LOL

[Carolina Girl]

Anyone else notice that Logan did not shake Jerri's proffered hand when the plane landed?  Her expression never changed.  

 

[BlackberryJam]

4 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Glad that Marcia is back - and with significant demands - in order to present a united front. She clearly makes the rest of them a bit uncomfortable and I love that.

[snip]

I wouldn't trust any of the Roy kids to run a hot dog stand. Their sense of entitlement and insecurities make it difficult to properly assess their abilities to run any type of organization much less a world-wide conglomerate. It IS about getting what they think is theirs. Each of them looks at their siblings as unworthy competition for the top spot.

Regardless, Logan has no intention of letting Shiv control anything. Her smile in the limo at the end tells me that she truly doesn't understand the depth of his ruthlessness.

[snip]

Hoping that he soon finds somewhere else to camp out so he can leave Rava's apartment.

No one is concerned that Greg has disappeared into the night? Does he still have the papers or are they with Kendall? Boone is nearly unrecognizable (as anyone other than Santa Claus).

 

Many things here!

I loved Marcia’s face. No Botox in her forehead, pants instead of a dress. She looked like a woman happy with herself, and not someone trying to entice Logan back. She is going to exercise her power to hose Logan and I’m down with it.

I think each of the Roys could be absolutely capable of running a small company provided they were not in competition with each other. The Roy children are the products of a childhood where they were showered with material things while love and approval were withheld. They are incapable of trusting one another and see most people (servants, other employees) as disposable assets rather than as actual humans. Of course, there is no imaginable scenario for any of them in which they are not in competition with one another.

Shiv is so going to get hung out to dry. Logan was willing to send Kendall to prison, but Shiv is buying into the “girls are different” line. I feel bad for her because I love her hair and her amazing pants. I want all of her pants.

It’s interesting to me that Shiv and Tom are exchanging weird “I love yous.” I don’t remember that from prior seasons. It tells me Shiv is less secure in the relationship than she had been.

Rava…I’m sure she’s got a nail appointment, or a massage or a lunch she needs to attend. I’d have kicked them all out after Naomi asked the wine be opened. 

Speaking of places, such a contrast between Lisa Arthur’s office and Pugh/Boone’s. I clocked Boone the moment he was on screen. Not sure how that happened, but I’d love it if Karen Allen showed up as the lead attorney for the DoJ team investigating. Boone and Katy! Tim Matheson would also be great in the show. Maybe as Marcia’s new squeeze.

They are all so dismissive of Connor that I want him to matter at some point. I mean, he’s dumb and has terrible judgment, but he’s still Cameron who crashed his father’s car.

So, I was trying to figure out which of the Roys I’m rooting for and …if I had to choose, Ewan. I like that he has an extensive vocabulary. He’s still a dick, but he likes words.

I considered Greg, but he has such a flexible moral compass that I don’t want him to come out on top. 

I do ship Roman/Gerri. I also ship a throuple of Frank/Karl/sandwiches. 

Edited October 25, 2021 by BlackberryJam

[northboundtrain]

Some quick thoughts:

* Great episode...so glad that the showrunners decided to spend so much of the episode with just the three four (I actually did have to correct that) siblings holed up at Rava's. Is that the first time we've seen just those four in a scene together since S1 E2? All of it was riveting.

* My feeling that Kendall is going to be the architect of his own downfall was only reinforced by those scenes where he ignored both Greg and Lisa and in favor of focusing on the ultimately futile task of trying to sway his siblings. Yeah, he did end up back in Lisa's office, head bowed and ready to get to work at the end of the episode, but Greg is now off in the office of some lawyer who sees him as a "wedge" to bring down Waystar. And I doubt this is the last we'll see of Kendall ignoring good advice because he's distracted by family drama.

* When I remembered how Kendall was genuinely touched that Roman brought him the Danish pastries, it made me think that it's really too bad for Kendall that he opted to go ahead and speak to all of the siblings at the same time instead of individually. The outcome couldn't have been any worse if he'd taken the time to target each one. Having them all in the room together created a distracting atmosphere and made it easier for Shiv, Roman, and Con to feed off of each other's mistrust of Kendall and lingering love for Logan.

* Though Kendall's "the only one who matters" spiel to Shiv would have backfired on him, regardless, I think. All that did was make her more likely to believe Logan really will pick her in the end.

* As I love the Roman/Gerri dynamic, I'm pretty pleased that we already got Gerri's "I'm an incredibly dangerous enemy" bit from the promo out of the way and that it was in the context of a preemptive warning and not a response to something Roman's already done. Not that I expect their "marriage" to last the full season, but I'm not ready to see it over yet.

* I'm so happy Marcia's back. I got little chills when her lawyer started in on the "reasonable numbers" speech while Marcia strolled into Logan's room.

* Tom's conspiratorial "We'll have to see if he buys that" to Greg surprised me. I guess Tom's figured that, for now, it's in his best interest to protect Greg even though he knows Greg's already passed off the papers.

* So we're currently looking at three, possibly four, different factions, right? 1) Kendall, 2) Logan/Shiv, 3) Roman/Gerri, 4) Greg (maybe with Tom?). Kendall thinks he has Greg, but he doesn't, because Greg doesn't trust him and is financially beholden to Ewan. Logan thinks he has Roman, but he doesn't, because Roman did not sign up for a Gerri/Shiv switcheroo (especially if the fallout removes Gerri from Waystar and the ability to mentor/"mentor" Roman).

[aghst]

The Shiv and Tom "I love you" exchanges go back to that scene in the beach of the season 2 finale, where Tom says he doesn't want an open marriage or a threesome and how he's unhappy in the marriage.

Shiv wants him more now?

Is she going to be a good wife from now on or just until she comes across another Nate or the actor?  Or a yacht stewardess that she claims she lined up for Tom but is interested in herself?

She might have to button down her personal life though, if she wants to take over a very high profile role in the company.

[BlackberryJam]

22 minutes ago, northboundtrain said:

 

* So we're currently looking at three, possibly four, different factions, right? 1) Kendall, 2) Logan/Shiv, 3) Roman/Gerri, 4) Greg (maybe with Tom?). Kendall thinks he has Greg, but he doesn't, because Greg doesn't trust him and is financially beholden to Ewan. Logan thinks he has Roman, but he doesn't, because Roman did not sign up for a Gerri/Shiv switcheroo (especially if the fallout removes Gerri from Waystar and the ability to mentor/"mentor" Roman).

There’s also Sandy/Stewy, who will fool Kendall again into thinking they are backing him only to pull out or screw him.

The strongest of alliances seems to be Roman/Gerri and I’m just not sure what’s holding them together. There’s his weird attraction to her and her desire to have an Roy family ally, but she’s doesn’t actually trust him.

Kendall thinks he has Frank, and maybe he does. Karl is going to go whichever way the wind blows and where can find a nice bagel. Karolina, if we see her again, is going to be team Logan. Marcia is going to get everything she can out of Logan, but still make help destroy him in the end. Ewan would like to see Waystar go down, but he still likes his money. Greg will keep fumbling his way up the ladder. Tom actively worked against Shiv getting CEO, so that’s not an alliance at all, even though they are married.

Spoiler

Aleksander Skarsgard, Adrien Brody, Linda Emond are all new characters for S3. Who knows where they will fall?

The alliances are like sand art, constantly shifting with no solid ground.

And I’m so excited for the rest of the season. 

[BingeyKohan]

when Logan was ticking off the people he wanted to hear from (or have his minions check in on, to see where their loyalties seemed to be lying) it seemed like he said "Rhea" (or "Ray," which, if meant to be Holly Hunter's character, isn't the same way that Shiv says it, which is more like "Rye-uh") Anyway - maybe it was a man actually named Ray he meant, but I had to wonder if it was a way of showing him to still be a little out of touch or forgetful, thinking Rhea was still actively involved in the business. 

I also have to wonder if Greg's papers will even turn out to be anything. There was a lot of mention of them this episode, and it was clear Kendall hasn't shown them to anyone. Do we really trust Greg's judgement in grabbing and keeping something actually valuable and incriminating? Or would it be too cheap in terms of the show's comedy to have the FBI file in and demand them, then finally get a look and them and be like, uh, sir these are emails confirming a catering order.

[Carolina Girl]

20 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

here’s also Sandy/Stewy, who will fool Kendall again into thinking they are backing him only to pull out or screw him.

Gerri gave Roman excellent advice - that the other board members will waste NO time and have NO problem booting any and all of the Roy spawn to the curb and turning the company over to someone who has the experience and intelligence to run it.  There is nothing in any of these brats that would prompt hard-core business men and women to see them at the helm of Waystar/Royco.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Carolina Girl
Autocorrect is NOT my friend.

[aghst]

I don't think Rhea is coming back -- what did Marcia call her?

The actor who played Sandy is not coming back, which is why they had him on speaker in this episode.  Instead they introduce his daughter, played by Hope Davis!

So they're adding some heavy hitters.

[TimWil]

4 hours ago, cardigirl said:

This season has felt muted to me so far.  Not quite as sharp or provocative. Maybe because it's the same territory they've been going over for a couple of years now, who is going to get Waystar Royco?  

I loved last season, and I know the pandemic made us all wait and made them have to take a longer break than they had planned, but so far, I'm not seeing anything new yet. Hope the pace breaks open next week. 

 

These first two are undoubtedly “aftermath” episodes. I have a feeling things will start getting twisty and wacky starting with the one airing Sunday.

Greg’s apartment wasn’t decorated by him, was it? I scratched my head wondering if he’d put up a theatre poster for The Threepenny Opera (which was produced in 1976 in Lincoln Center starring Raul Julia, whose face is on the poster).

Edited October 25, 2021 by TimWil

[BlackberryJam]

I think the documents are worthwhile, but Kendall isn’t going to let them out. I suspect Greg has already made copies. These docs go back to the cruise line nightmare that an exec who quit was trying to dump on Tom. Tom shredded/burnt plenty of them, but Greg kept some.

However, I don’t know if Kendall has kept them safe, who has them, who’s seen them or who they are going to implicate. The FBI is going to come in and take every sheet of paper and review every email. There is bound to be some dirt. 

Just as an example, the investigation of the Washington Football Team has over half a million emails, and just two of those have caused Jon Gruden to resign. There will be plenty of ugliness.

[cardigirl]

1 minute ago, BlackberryJam said:

I think the documents are worthwhile, but Kendall isn’t going to let them out. I suspect Greg has already made copies. These docs go back to the cruise line nightmare that an exec who quit was trying to dump on Tom. Tom shredded/burnt plenty of them, but Greg kept some.

However, I don’t know if Kendall has kept them safe, who has them, who’s seen them or who they are going to implicate. The FBI is going to come in and take every sheet of paper and review every email. There is bound to be some dirt. 

Just as an example, the investigation of the Washington Football Team has over half a million emails, and just two of those have caused Jon Gruden to resign. There will be plenty of ugliness.

Tom didn't shred any of them and he thought he burned the ones Greg had kept, but Greg stuffed a few of those down his pants.  Tom was trying to keep his hands clean by sending Greg to do it on Thanksgiving, a day that never seemed to end for him, poor guy, because he had to pick his grandfather up in Canada and drive him 12 hours to NYC with nothing to eat, no radio (finally found a podcast or something for him to listen to) and then when he got to the residence, Tom sent him to shred the papers without letting him eat.  I felt so sad for him. I don't think he ever got anything to eat that day. 

I'm sure there are also emails between Tom and Greg about that they think are cryptic (they were referenced in the Senate hearings).

[Ellaria]

59 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

I loved Marcia’s face. No Botox in her forehead, pants instead of a dress. She looked like a woman happy with herself, and not someone trying to entice Logan back. She is going to exercise her power to hose Logan and I’m down with it.

I think each of the Roys could be absolutely capable of running a small company provided they were not in competition with each other. The Roy children are the products of a childhood where they were showered with material things while love and approval were withheld. They are incapable of trusting one another and see most people (servants, other employees) as disposable assets rather than as actual humans. Of course, there is no imaginable scenario for any of them in which they are not in competition with one another.

Shiv is so going to get hung out to dry. Logan was willing to send Kendall to prison, but Shiv is buying into the “girls are different” line. I feel bad for her because I love her hair and her amazing pants. I want all of her pants.

It’s interesting to me that Shiv and Tom are exchanging weird “I love yous.” I don’t remember that from prior seasons. It tells me Shiv is less secure in the relationship than she had been.

 

 

It seems likely that Marcia and Logan have a pre-nup. And - if I remember correctly - she was his Health Care Proxy back in S1. Unless that was changed off-camera, it could come into play if (or more likely when) Logan has another health crisis. She may be the only family member that Logan "needs" in his corner right now. She is using what she has to her advantage and good for her.

Agree - Shiv IS going to get hung out to dry. I never sense that she has a plan to avoid repeating her previous mistakes. Everything is based on Logan's approval. I also agree that Shiv is a bit less secure in her marriage. As much as I dislike Tom, I want him to be less vulnerable in their relationship.

9 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

I also have to wonder if Greg's papers will even turn out to be anything. There was a lot of mention of them this episode, and it was clear Kendall hasn't shown them to anyone. Do we really trust Greg's judgement in grabbing and keeping something actually valuable and incriminating? Or would it be too cheap in terms of the show's comedy to have the FBI file in and demand them, then finally get a look and them and be like, uh, sir these are emails confirming a catering order.

Considering that Tom was willing to burn those papers, yes, they have value. Considering that Greg told Kendall about those papers at the end of S1, they have value. And he appeared to be holding those papers at Kendall's press conference. The question for me is not whether they have value currently but whether Logan will find a way to invalidate them.

[aghst]

Would Kendall have had a better chance if he approached his siblings individually instead of as a group?

Because the competitive dynamic probably didn't help his case.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, BingeyKohan said:

when Logan was ticking off the people he wanted to hear from (or have his minions check in on, to see where their loyalties seemed to be lying) it seemed like he said "Rhea" (or "Ray," which, if meant to be Holly Hunter's character, isn't the same way that Shiv says it, which is more like "Rye-uh") Anyway - maybe it was a man actually named Ray he meant, but I had to wonder if it was a way of showing him to still be a little out of touch or forgetful, thinking Rhea was still actively involved in the business. 

I also have to wonder if Greg's papers will even turn out to be anything. There was a lot of mention of them this episode, and it was clear Kendall hasn't shown them to anyone. Do we really trust Greg's judgement in grabbing and keeping something actually valuable and incriminating? Or would it be too cheap in terms of the show's comedy to have the FBI file in and demand them, then finally get a look and them and be like, uh, sir these are emails confirming a catering order.

Ray is one of the more loathsome Waystar Royco execs, played by Patch Darragh. I'm not sure what his role is at the company, but he's so awful that he heartily enjoyed Boar on the Floor and Laird picked him for "Kill" in the executive floor game of Marry, Fuck, Kill that Roman proposed, to which Roman instantly said "Of course."

It was weird seeing Connor in big brother mode, even chiding Shiv for being mean.

I wouldn't want to be in the Roy siblings' shoes either when asked to choose between Kendall and Logan. Logan's obviously in deep trouble, but Kendall seems extremely unstable and obviously hasn't thought this through. 

[northboundtrain]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

Is she going to be a good wife from now on or just until she comes across another Nate or the actor?  Or a yacht stewardess that she claims she lined up for Tom but is interested in herself?

I would not bet on Shiv staying faithful. Right now, it's easy for her to try to hang on to Tom because their conversation from the beach is still fresh in her mind and everything else around them is so chaotic. But I'm sure she's telling herself that once things calm down, she'll firm things up with Tom and then, once he's placated, just go back to doing what she wants (but maybe more discreetly).

I do think Shiv loves Tom and needs him; they've alluded to how Tom helped her through some rough part of her past, and I'm sure that his help for her back then has convinced her that she needs him at her side now and always. But she's selfish, like all of them are.

 

47 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

There’s also Sandy/Stewy, who will fool Kendall again into thinking they are backing him only to pull out or screw him.

Oh, absolutely -- I just meant of the Roy family members. But, yes, Kendall thinking that he can trust them is bonkers.

 

Quote

The strongest of alliances seems to be Roman/Gerri and I’m just not sure what’s holding them together. There’s his weird attraction to her and her desire to have an Roy family ally, but she’s doesn’t actually trust him.

I can never remember if interviews with actors count as spoilers, so...

Spoiler

In the Collider interview, JCS talks about the positive qualities Gerri genuinely sees in Roman but also says, "In spite of themselves, they have this real almost tenderness or bond, in addition to or in spite of whatever weird sexual thing might be brewing or trying to brew. . . . He’s pushing his agenda, and I’m pushing my agenda, and there’s some little unspoken thing that, in spite of ourselves, we’re getting attached to each other, in some kind of way. We’re becoming friends."

So I do think that she does actually like him.

As for trust...

I wouldn't say that she trusts him 100%, but she trusts him more than she trusts any other member of the family, and the longer they go with Roman demonstrating his affection for and loyalty to her, the more that trust solidifies. I keep going back to the "blood sacrifice" discussion on the yacht and how determined Roman is to get the heat off of Gerri. Shiv was out there suggesting her own husband be the sacrifice, while Roman was busy targeted every single person at the table (with the exception of Kendall, IIRC) in an effort to train Logan's fire anywhere else but on Gerri.

But something else holding them together is that Roman, unlike Kendall and Shiv, has readily admitted to both Logan and Gerri that he's okay not being CEO right now. If he were more ambitious, I don't think the Roman/Gerri alliance would be holding the way it has been.

 

Quote

Kendall thinks he has Frank, and maybe he does.

I do think Kendall has Frank. Frank came up in the Shiv/Tom phone call, too, as a reliable vote against Logan.

[Evie]

Logan scored one by sending those donuts. I doubt either Shiv or Roman would have switched sides but that put a stake in it.

Connor actually seemed like the reasonable one next to his siblings.

Greg has the instincts to know when he's in dangerous territory but absolutely no clue how to navigate it. Ewan is out to use him as much as Logan and Kendall, but Greg is just concerned with self-preservation. He's too young to go in front of Congress again! 

“I found his performance histrionic and meretricious."                                        "Well, tell me about it." Ewan has quite a vocabulary. Greg had no idea what all those big words meant.

I'm so glad Marcia is back and with demands.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Evie

[aghst]

OTOH, I don't know why they'd be impressed/intimidated by donuts.

Conor was complaining earlier that he had to fly commercial instead of private and had to settle for refrigerated cheese in first class.

Is there some luxe donut makers which cater to the ultra rich?  Like those $200 hamburgers with gold leaf?

 

[candall]

13 hours ago, aghst said:

Ultimately, it may just be that spoiled rich kids grow up to be spoiled rich adults, with no complicated motivations like drive or ambition, just getting what they think is theirs.  The Roy kids may all think Waystar Royco is theirs.

I snipped this paragraph by @Aghst as a way to introduce this excellent Vox article about the "layers of Succession."

https://www.vox.com/culture/22691830/succession-season-3-hbo-review-roy-logan-kendall-shiv-roman

I love this show and it's enhanced by this thoughtful, insightful article.  The author teases out five different threads, but at heart, she thinks it's about trust issues among adults who shared an abusive parent as children.  A real bullseye for this episode with the four of them fencing and feinting.

 

I think the best/saddest parts are when the four siblings get soooo close to sharing a moment and then someone will turn on one of the others, just being a real asshole, and the other two will join in.

[BlackberryJam]

The doughnuts were just Logan reminding the children, all of whom thought they'd been able to sneak in to see Kendall, that he knows exactly where they are and what they are doing. 

[Jordan Baker]

3 hours ago, TimWil said:

I scratched my head wondering if he’d put up a theatre poster for The Threepenny Opera (which was produced in 1976 in Lincoln Center starring Raul Julia, whose face is on the poster).

I would *love* to hear Greg try to explain the poster to someone. My guess is he's never heard of The Threepenny Opera, Raul Julia, or (maybe)  even Lincoln Center. 

That's not to knock Greg. What would this show be without him and Tom, who manage to inject the humor that is sometimes sorely needed amidst all the gloom?

[iMonrey]

Quote

I liked when Roman touched all of Kendall's daughter's stuff.  😄

He was also obsessed with her giant closet.

I can't remember, if it's even been explained: how did Kendall know about the papers that Greg had? As far as I can recall, the only two people who knew he had them were Tom and Greg himself. 

[aghst]

19 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

He was also obsessed with her giant closet.

I can't remember, if it's even been explained: how did Kendall know about the papers that Greg had? As far as I can recall, the only two people who knew he had them were Tom and Greg himself. 

In season 1, at the wedding, Greg tells him, outside the castle, that he saved some docs.

Kendall was looking to get high so it’s surprising that he retained it.

but it was right before he took that fateful drive.

 

notice Marcia subtly suggested to Logan that he could use that event to take Kendall down and Logan said something about how he could be blown up too.

 

 

[jrzy]

19 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I had to watch it twice, (and with captioning), but that's what I thought too.  

I watched it twice but I still don't understand what he said.

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 minute ago, jrzy said:

I watched it twice but I still don't understand what he said.

I still don't understand what the hell they were saying about the hug, Mr. Cuddles, and how it related to somebody watching Shiv through the window?  Logan said "A hug would have been nice" and then after that nothing made sense to me.

I love how Shiv actually APOLOGIZED to Roman.  That's huge!  She's normally so cold, but Roman's vulnerability actually made her feel bad.  

Edited October 25, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[peachmangosteen]

16 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I still don't understand what the hell they were saying about the hug, Mr. Cuddles, and how it related to somebody watching Shiv through the window?  Logan said "A hug would have been nice" and then after that nothing made sense to me.

With that stuff, I thought they were talking about the papparrazi. Logan wanted Shiv to get out and hug him for the media and she said they got enough pics of her through the car window. 

[Carolina Girl]

22 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

With that stuff, I thought they were talking about the papparrazi. Logan wanted Shiv to get out and hug him for the media and she said they got enough pics of her through the car window. 

That's what I thought too.  Logan was annoyed that Shiv did not get out of the car and greet him with a hug, instead remaining in the car.  

[iMonrey]

Quote

notice Marcia subtly suggested to Logan that he could use that event to take Kendall down and Logan said something about how he could be blown up too.

Conceivably, it could come out that Logan covered for Kendall. 

[caitmcg]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Conceivably, it could come out that Logan covered for Kendall. 

Yeah, I don’t know how Logan could make it public without questions arising about how it was passed off as it was, and he’s not blind to that. The last thing he wants right now is another coverup of an “NRPI” incident exposed, presumably.