S19.E26: Barbara Lee; Christina Bellantoni; George F. Will

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

Bill opens this week's show by interviewing Rep. Barbara Lee, the Democratic Congresswoman representing California's 13th district. For the panel, he is joined by journalist Christina Bellantoni and columnist George F. Will.

Original air date 2021.09.10

[sheetmoss]

Well Bill   certainly stepped into  it with Lift Every Voice and Sing --aka Black National Anthem, comment  not  knowing the song's  history. He'll yell it's 'woke' but he was  just asleep

I still don't care for George Will.

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by sheetmoss

[revbfc]

It’s not even up on HBOMax yet.

[sugarbaker design]

This show is hilarious!  Bill thinks the big issue on Election Day will be wokeness in universities!  Of course it will.  😉

As a long time viewer of Bill and his shows it was jarring to see him in lockstep with George Will.  Will hasn"t changed over the years, Bill has.

At least Bill got consistent pushback from Christine Bellantoni.

[letter8358]

At least he was not in the Biden's fault camp. I will give Bill credit for that.

[iMonrey]

Good grief Bill was in rare form last night. Aside from the interview with Barbara Lee it was an utter shit show. First of all, George Will says the vaccine mandates are government over-reach - which may or may not be a valid point. But Bill takes that and runs with "people are too fat." Did he not just hear the argument against government over-reach? If the government cannot mandate vaccines they cannot mandate "don't get fat" either. I mean, the same people who refuse to get vaccines or wear masks because they think it impinges on their freedoms aren't likely to take too kindly to "don't get fat" either.

But that pales in comparison to two old white men talking about racial injustice and inequality. First George Will has the audacity to push this old white man notion that racial inequities are better now that we don't have slaves anymore, and then of course Bill has to take that ball and run with wokeness and millennial snowflakes. If things are are better for minorities today than they used to be then why do you think that is? It sure isn't because of old white men who seem to think everyone was better off a hundred years ago when children were seen and not heard and minorities knew their place. Un-fucking believable. 

Yeah, thank Dog for Christine Bellantoni who actually can speak for younger generations unlike Bill or George, but they utterly dismissed everything she had to say.

It seems like Bill just keeps bringing on these conservative guests he knows will agree with him and bolster him on his pet issues, wokeness and cancel culture.

He's probably right about water pipelines but I'm surprised he didn't take the opportunity to bitch about his solar panels again.

[After7Only]

7 hours ago, sheetmoss said:

Well Bill   certainly stepped into  it with Lift Every Voice and Sing --aka Black National Anthem, comment  not  knowing the song's  history. He'll yell it's 'woke' but he was  just asleep

I still don't care for George Will.

 

Lift Every Voice and Sing has been referred to as the black national anthem and sung in black churches and at black conferences and events for the past 100 years.  It’s not new.   There was a story of Bill Clinton singing along to all 3 verses while he was President.   Yes, they are definitely asleep….and proud of their ignorance.   

i used the like George Will a little.  I didn’t agree with him usually but I could usually understand his point of view on economic issues.   He needs to keep out of social issue discussions.    The examples they gave on university wokeness are isolated and/or exaggerated and don’t represent most colleges.   The woman on the panel tried to make that point, but I wished she would have pushed back harder.  

Bill really needs to stop discussing race, if he does not have a POC on the panel willing to fully discuss the issue.   

[Moxie Cat]

51 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Yeah, thank Dog for Christine Bellantoni who actually can speak for younger generations unlike Bill or George, but they utterly dismissed everything she had to say.

The audience heard her. I noticed she got some really good applause when she pushed back against Bill - whose show it is, after all - and I wondered if he noticed (but probably not). Unlike Bill, she works in academia, and her point about current college-age kids being incredibly sympathetic/empathetic (not sure now of her exact word) is right, in my experience. 

[bobbyjoe]

Wait, he talked about wokeness, cancel culture, fat people, sucked up to a conservative Republican, downplayed the woman on the panel, and yammered on and on about an issue involving a minority that he doesn’t understand at all and without any representative of that minority on the show?

Ohmigod, that sounds so fresh and like nothing he’s ever done before!  I mean, when has there ever been an episode like that?  Why did I not set my DVR?

[at this point shouldn’t HBO just save themselves some money and have him film just one episode per season and put it on endless repeat every Friday night?  Would anyone notice?]

Edited September 11, 2021 by bobbyjoe

[DoctorAtomic]

52 minutes ago, After7Only said:

The examples they gave on university wokeness are isolated and/or exaggerated and don’t represent most colleges.

 

That's the problem. It's a larger systemic issue because that's what's going to get reported. No one is reporting on my class or university because it's not happening here, and frankly, I got way more on my plate than worrying about class that much anyway. I have no doubt there are cases of overreach, but I think 97% can be fixed by telling people to stfu and go teach the class. Or throwing a student out of class for doing a deal because they're being disruptive. That's really not being done. 

I take Bill's point about nutrition. I mean, try to get foods that don't have added sugar. It's near impossible. I understand that he's kind of beating it into the ground. I don't think it was the best place to bring it up with vaccines. His data is correct, but on the flip side, we don't want those people dying either. Plenty of people who are healthy are catching the virus too. Sure, they're not dying and symptoms may be mild, but you still don't want people catching it and spreading it either. I can get using those stats as a springboard to raising awareness, but no, the government can't mandate fitness, but yes, the government can use the bully pulpit to get doctors to talk about it to patients more. That's really the level where you're going to affect change. Will (who I also don't care for) was correct about the smoking analogy.

And I am sad to say, but I think he's right on OSHA not being able to enforce the mandates legally either in terms of separation of powers. I thought the same thing when I heard it yesterday. However, the government *can* enforce a vaccination mandate. That's been decided in court like a hundred years ago. It was for smallpox in Vermont or MA. Actually I think it was the states can mandate vaccinations. So he's kind of not technically correct there. Which is the best kind of correct. 

I don't think necessarily Biden doesn't think OSHA can't; the key point is he's out of patience. I think in this case he's just using the bully pulpit to spur people into some action. People who are refusing to get vaccinated at this point aren't going to change their mind unless they can't get on a plane, go to their favorite restaurant, etc., so I think that's his angle. 

Edited September 11, 2021 by DoctorAtomic

[DoctorAtomic]

3 hours ago, After7Only said:

Lift Every Voice and Sing has been referred to as the black national anthem and sung in black churches and at black conferences and events for the past 100 years.  It’s not new.

I was baffled that Bill didn't know this, or someone on the staff correct this. 

I don't 100% agree with Bill, though I agree with a lot. It's his show, and he can talk about what he wants, whether I think it's interesting to me or not. One thing is that he's informed. This is just way out there. 

His response to Bellantoni was highly insulting and condescending as well. Again, he has a point about wokeness on campus. The articles he cited are factual. So, ok, you've got someone on the panel whose job it is to be in the classroom with 100s of these people on the regs. You can't dismiss her experience with 'well, you're not everywhere,' and then, when she agrees, and continues to point out additional information on a case Bill cited, just handwaves her. I mean, come on, you're just talking diverse points of view and have a professional in that field to speak on it. 

I don't really get the gist of the conversation as whole this time. I don't know if he was saying too much of colleges are making everything about race, which is fair, but I don't agree that's really happening. He's been consistent that real history should be taught. A lot of it unfortunately does boil down to race. 

3 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

Unlike Bill, she works in academia, and her point about current college-age kids being incredibly sympathetic/empathetic (not sure now of her exact word) is right, in my experience. 

He just laughed her off too, after she talked about what she does so they could experience diverse opinions. You've got the expert on; you have a chance to engage. 

[BrownBear2012]

3 hours ago, bobbyjoe said:

Wait, he talked about wokeness, cancel culture, fat people, sucked up to a conservative Republican, downplayed the woman on the panel, and yammered on and on about an issue involving a minority that he doesn’t understand at all and without any representative of that minority on the show?

Ohmigod, that sounds so fresh and like nothing he’s ever done before!  I mean, when has there ever been an episode like that?  Why did I not set my DVR?

[at this point shouldn’t HBO just save themselves some money and have him film just one episode per season and put it on endless repeat every Friday night?  Would anyone notice?]

Haven't watched this show in almost three years yet it sounds like the very last show I did watch...nothing has changed. Still bitching about colleges (again, his snowflakeness from being slighted by Berkeley ions ago), bitching about millenials who are now in their 30's and early 40's and are working and raising families...I think Bill just keeps confusing millenials with Gen Zers...still bitching about cancel culture and wokeness. No bitching about the anti vaxxers who are filling up our hospitals and spreading COVID, no bitching about the January 6th terrorists who will having another rally at the Capitol on September 18th, no bitching about the irresponsible Republican Governors who refuse to have mask mandates for school children, no bitching about the abortion bill in Texas or their new voter suppression laws? It amazes me how hyper focused he is on three things and nothing else. And HBO just signed this old white guy through 2024!

I read that he said he's still a liberal (really?) but the liberals embarrass him now. The only that is embarrassing is that he still has an audience for this shit show and that HBO will continue to reward him with two more years of it.

[BrownBear2012]

6 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

This show is hilarious!  Bill thinks the big issue on Election Day will be wokeness in universities!  Of course it will.  😉

As a long time viewer of Bill and his shows it was jarring to see him in lockstep with George Will.  Will hasn"t changed over the years, Bill has.

At least Bill got consistent pushback from Christine Bellantoni.

I wonder when was the last time Bill set foot on a college campus and actually interacted with college students? I'm guessing at least a decade ago. It is interesting that he paints all colleges and college students with a broad brush. I don't know, the college football games I saw last weekend on the news, where students were packed into stadiums cheering on their teams didn't look like the "woke, cancel culture" types to me. Colleges are very diverse and have all kinds of students from all over the place...to paint all of them as bastions of progressive liberal bias churning out hundreds of social justice warriors is just bullshit. I've put three millenials through college and can speak from experience...most college students today are more focused on getting through their classes with a decent GPA and being able to get a job in their field of interest when they get out. Sure, they are more savvy about social issues and diversity but they also party and let loose from time to time.

Bill has become an old curmudgeon...he doesn't have kids and has no understanding of what they're doing or thinking. So many of them are activists and are good at it...think of the kids from Marjorie Stoneham Douglas High School in Florida who lived through a mass shooting and went on to organize anti gun rallies and advocate for better gun restrictions; think of Greta Thunberg and her passion and call for action on the environment; think of all the young women now who are actively organizing a women's march on Washington to advocate for women's reproducutive health; think of all the young black activists who were called to political action in light of recent deaths of black civilians by white law enforcement...this is a new generation of activism not unlike my generation from the 60's and 70's. Instead of applauding it Bill chooses to criticize it and put all young people into one box. Just a few seasons ago he was complaining about young people who were shallow and empty minded and all they cared about was being on their phones and playing video games...so which is it Bill? They're insipid lardasses or are they "too woke social justice warriors" being too heavily influenced by their non tenured professors?

 

[Hanahope]

Bill, because people cannot lose enough weight overnight or even over a week or month, or two.  But they can immediately get a vaccine and wear a mask. 

[DoctorAtomic]

25 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

Bill, because people cannot lose enough weight overnight or even over a week or month, or two.  But they can immediately get a vaccine and wear a mask. 

That's basically what I was trying to say. We should be learning lessons from the pandemic; one of them is we collectively need to be healthier. But we really need to put this virus down now. 

Bellantoni was also correct - Michelle Obama tried to get kids to eat healthier and literally was called a Nazi. So just getting people healthier is not going to be easy either. 

I also have wondered when Bill has last been on campus too. What does he think most students are doing at college anyway? 

 

 

 

 

[ruby24]

3 hours ago, BrownBear2012 said:

Haven't watched this show in almost three years yet it sounds like the very last show I did watch...nothing has changed. Still bitching about colleges (again, his snowflakeness from being slighted by Berkeley ions ago), bitching about millenials who are now in their 30's and early 40's and are working and raising families...I think Bill just keeps confusing millenials with Gen Zers...still bitching about cancel culture and wokeness. No bitching about the anti vaxxers who are filling up our hospitals and spreading COVID, no bitching about the January 6th terrorists who will having another rally at the Capitol on September 18th, no bitching about the irresponsible Republican Governors who refuse to have mask mandates for school children, no bitching about the abortion bill in Texas or their new voter suppression laws? It amazes me how hyper focused he is on three things and nothing else. And HBO just signed this old white guy through 2024!

I read that he said he's still a liberal (really?) but the liberals embarrass him now. The only that is embarrassing is that he still has an audience for this shit show and that HBO will continue to reward him with two more years of it.

Does he seriously never talk about any of this, the ACTUAL most important things in the country right now? I quit watching a few years ago too, couldn't take it anymore. But for anyone who calls themself a liberal, to not talk about any of those things you mentioned is just insane.

[aghst]

5 hours ago, Hanahope said:

Bill, because people cannot lose enough weight overnight or even over a week or month, or two.  But they can immediately get a vaccine and wear a mask. 

Yeah the only effect of pointing out that obese people have worse outcomes is to beat them up for something they can’t change in the short term.

Or for that matter, the long term because they’ve been told about chronic conditions and the dangers of diabetes for decades but only a small percentage are able to lose a lot of weight and keep their weight down.

It’s pointless to harangue them about it because it’s not just a matter of people deciding they’re going to lose weight or we wouldn’t have as much as 40% of the population be considered obese.

What it does is encourage “normal people” to think this virus is mainly a problem for the obese and thus you don’t need the vaccine — Joe Rogan telling his audience if you’re young and fit don’t get the vaccine — or comply with NPIs to minimize transmission.

 

George Will says race relations are great because the referees of SEC football games are black and 60 years ago, black players couldn’t play in the SEC — actually I think it may have been the late ‘60s.

🙄

Yeah what does the fact that white nationalists are overt about their program say about race relations?

Or that states are passing voting restrictions targeted against black voters, with the Supreme Court hostile to the voting rights laws passed in the ‘60s to protect voting rights for blacks?

What do measures of black median incomes compared to whites or black enrollment at universities say?

Or the difference in spending for predominantly black schools vs. white schools?

Go back to your bow ties George and stop lying or opening your pie hole about things you’re ignorant of.

[Avaleigh]

11 hours ago, After7Only said:

Lift Every Voice and Sing has been referred to as the black national anthem and sung in black churches and at black conferences and events for the past 100 years.  It’s not new.   There was a story of Bill Clinton singing along to all 3 verses while he was President.   Yes, they are definitely asleep….and proud of their ignorance.   

My takeaway from this in terms of Bill bringing it up is that a national anthem is an area where it would be better if a country isn't divided. If people want to change the anthem in general (because they don't like the history or whatever) then he's open to a discussion about it, but for one group to continue to want a separate national anthem--it can be seen as divisive and maybe that isn't ideal for a country in general.

As a black POC, I don't like the idea of a separate national anthem because I agree that it feels like a form of segregation. I understand the place of Lift Every Voice and Sing in terms of its historical importance to black Americans. At the same time, I personally don't feel like I need a separate national anthem, nor does it somehow make me enjoy a sporting event more if I hear Lift Every Voice and Sing performed along with our official national anthem. 

I also think it's okay for people to acknowledge that as a country we've made enormous progress. That doesn't mean that there isn't still lots of work to do but it's okay for people (including non POC) to acknowledge that things are better than they were in 1619, 1776, 1865, 1965, etc. The improvements are real and I doubt there are many POC that would want to be forced to live in pre civil rights era America. I don't think that people should necessarily be criticized for acknowledging this basic truth unless they are trying to somehow make it seem as though there aren't still legitimate complaints to be made when it comes to race in this country.

13 hours ago, BrownBear2012 said:

I think Bill just keeps confusing millenials with Gen Zers...still bitching about cancel culture and wokeness.

Bill brought up Gen Z in this episode while he was talking about 9/11 so he seems to understand when the Gen Z generation were born and that they are different than millennials.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I also think it's okay for people to acknowledge that as a country we've made enormous progress. That doesn't mean that there isn't still lots of work to do but it's okay for people (including non POC) to acknowledge that things are better than they were in 1619, 1776, 1865, 1965, etc.

Sure, but they're better for everyone, not just minorities. So saying "hey, black people are actually way better off now and racial injustice isn't nearly as bad anymore" is sort of a dumb point. Black people are better off now than they were 100 years ago but so are white people. Things in general are just better. Doesn't mean racial injustice is no longer that big a deal and that's exactly what George Will seemed to be implying in a dismissive way.

[After7Only]

7 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

My takeaway from this in terms of Bill bringing it up is that a national anthem is an area where it would be better if a country isn't divided. If people want to change the anthem in general (because they don't like the history or whatever) then he's open to a discussion about it, but for one group to continue to want a separate national anthem--it can be seen as divisive and maybe that isn't ideal for a country in general.

 

I don’t think there’s a push for a separate national anthem for anyone.  Lift Every Voice and Sing, is a culturally significant song to American Black people and has been for a really long time.   It is not divisive to sing it.   To me it’s being inclusive.  It has not been sung instead of The Star Spangled Banner, but in addition to.   And again another example of them taking isolated incidents and exaggerating it.   I may be mistaken but I don’t think there’s mandates or any wide spread singing of Lift Every Voice and Sing at sporting events.  

56 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Sure, but they're better for everyone, not just minorities. So saying "hey, black people are actually way better off now and racial injustice isn't nearly as bad anymore" is sort of a dumb point. Black people are better off now than they were 100 years ago but so are white people. Things in general are just better. Doesn't mean racial injustice is no longer that big a deal and that's exactly what George Will seemed to be implying in a dismissive way.

Agreed.   We can acknowledge progress AND discuss areas that still improvement.   We aren’t done because Black people can play sports in the SEC.  Ask the minorities at those SEC schools, particularly those who don’t play football about racism on campuses.  

[DoctorAtomic]

8 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

My takeaway from this in terms of Bill bringing it up is that a national anthem is an area where it would be better if a country isn't divided. If people want to change the anthem in general (because they don't like the history or whatever) then he's open to a discussion about it, but for one group to continue to want a separate national anthem--it can be seen as divisive and maybe that isn't ideal for a country in general.

That's fair, but I still would suggest Bill know something about the song's history in the first place. It sounded like he was just learning about it. I don't necessarily think it's that divisive a song. Playing both seems a little much. From the article, it just seemed like it was a one time thing. tbh, the real question is why the national anthem is played everywhere for everything all the time to the point if someone wants to sing something else than we're commenting on whether it's divisive or not. 

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Things in general are just better. Doesn't mean racial injustice is no longer that big a deal and that's exactly what George Will seemed to be implying in a dismissive way.

Bill actually had a new rules monologue to that point not so long ago, but Will missed the mark way way wide there. The follow up question within Will's context would be that if that black referee at the Georgia game will have a harder time voting than the quarterback. 

 

[Avaleigh]

10 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Sure, but they're better for everyone, not just minorities. So saying "hey, black people are actually way better off now and racial injustice isn't nearly as bad anymore" is sort of a dumb point. Black people are better off now than they were 100 years ago but so are white people. Things in general are just better. Doesn't mean racial injustice is no longer that big a deal and that's exactly what George Will seemed to be implying in a dismissive way.

Obviously life is better for everyone in terms of progress with technology, medicine, social issues, etc. That wasn't the point I was making.

In my post, I was specifically talking about racial issues and race relations. Things are in fact better than they were years ago, we've made significant progress, and it's okay for people to acknowledge this during these types of discussions. I also said in my post that this doesn't mean that there isn't still lots of work to be done or that there aren't legitimate issues to address in terms of racial injustice in this country. 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Avaleigh

[aghst]

3 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

Obviously life is better for everyone in terms of progress with technology, medicine, social issues, etc. That wasn't the point I was making.

In my post, I was specifically talking about racial issues and race relations. Things are in fact better than they were years ago, we've made significant progress, and it's okay for people to acknowledge this during these types of discussions. I also said in my post that this doesn't mean that there isn't still lots of work to be done or that there aren't legitimate issues to address in terms of racial injustice in this country. 

In relative terms, such as median income relative to other groups, particularly whites, I'm not sure blacks are better off than they were decades ago.

Same for other measures such as university enrollment.

We know that several states have tried to restrict voting in black areas, such as reductions in polling stations.  They're also trying to require voter ID, which impacts some black voters more than voters of other groups.

 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Things are in fact better than they were years ago, we've made significant progress, and it's okay for people to acknowledge this during these types of discussions.

Yeah but that's not what George Will was doing. He was basically saying "actually things are a lot better so shut up about it. and stop whining."

[wknt3]

On 9/12/2021 at 1:24 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

That's fair, but I still would suggest Bill know something about the song's history in the first place. It sounded like he was just learning about it. I don't necessarily think it's that divisive a song. Playing both seems a little much. From the article, it just seemed like it was a one time thing. tbh, the real question is why the national anthem is played everywhere for everything all the time to the point if someone wants to sing something else than we're commenting on whether it's divisive or not.

Bingo. Just got around to watching this episode and was thinking about the Bill I used to actively enjoy watching even when I disagreed with him would have made just that point if this subject came up. Maybe talk about the playing of "God Bless America" by some teams and some of the other ridiculous performative patriotism of sports and argue that the problem isn't diversity it's that don't need another anthem we need to get rid of the one we already have at the games. That would be provocative and interesting and maybe generate some actual interesting discussion. You wouldn't even need to know anything about the song's history either!

[BrownBear2012]

On 9/12/2021 at 5:08 AM, Avaleigh said:

My takeaway from this in terms of Bill bringing it up is that a national anthem is an area where it would be better if a country isn't divided. If people want to change the anthem in general (because they don't like the history or whatever) then he's open to a discussion about it, but for one group to continue to want a separate national anthem--it can be seen as divisive and maybe that isn't ideal for a country in general.

As a black POC, I don't like the idea of a separate national anthem because I agree that it feels like a form of segregation. I understand the place of Lift Every Voice and Sing in terms of its historical importance to black Americans. At the same time, I personally don't feel like I need a separate national anthem, nor does it somehow make me enjoy a sporting event more if I hear Lift Every Voice and Sing performed along with our official national anthem. 

I also think it's okay for people to acknowledge that as a country we've made enormous progress. That doesn't mean that there isn't still lots of work to do but it's okay for people (including non POC) to acknowledge that things are better than they were in 1619, 1776, 1865, 1965, etc. The improvements are real and I doubt there are many POC that would want to be forced to live in pre civil rights era America. I don't think that people should necessarily be criticized for acknowledging this basic truth unless they are trying to somehow make it seem as though there aren't still legitimate complaints to be made when it comes to race in this country.

Bill brought up Gen Z in this episode while he was talking about 9/11 so he seems to understand when the Gen Z generation were born and that they are different than millennials.

Well...you could have fooled me. All i can say to Bill is "OK Boomer!"

[tessaray]

The weatherman get-up suited Bill to an uncanny degree.  They need to make him wear it on every show. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Does he really think the government can get people to eat healthy and exercise, which is a hell of a lot more work. Is he really that dense?

Just to play devil's advocate, what I think drives him crazy is that he seems to believe the vast majority of people getting sick or dying from Covid are overweight. He keeps saying "four out of five." He just keeps hammering away at it, like if there weren't so many overweight people then Covid would be no big deal. That seems like a pointless and irrelevant position to take, IMO, but it's apparently something he's latched onto and won't let go of, like wokeness and cancel culture. 

Now, obesity may in fact play a significant role in Covid hospitalizations, but so too does it in almost everything else, and Bill acts as though there is some sort of liberal conspiracy to never talk about it. Which is nuts. Once again, it's like he's parroting something you'd hear on Fox News. Everyone knows being overweight is unhealthy. It's not some deep dark secret. Anyone who is overweight already knows that. 

[izabella]

On 9/13/2021 at 6:56 PM, wknt3 said:

Maybe talk about the playing of "God Bless America" by some teams and some of the other ridiculous performative patriotism of sports and argue that the problem isn't diversity it's that don't need another anthem we need to get rid of the one we already have at the games. That would be provocative and interesting and maybe generate some actual interesting discussion. You wouldn't even need to know anything about the song's history either!

This.  I have never understood why the national anthem is played before some game.  I get it if it's an international competition and they play the anthem for the winner, like at the Olympics.  Outside of that, it seems ridiculous.  What does the anthem have to do with a bunch of people chasing or hitting or throwing balls?  We don't play it before movies or concerts or plays.  We don't play it before chess matches and spelling bees. Congress doesn't play it before each session.   What is the purpose of it at a ballgame?

[RealHousewife]

2 hours ago, izabella said:

This.  I have never understood why the national anthem is played before some game.  I get it if it's an international competition and they play the anthem for the winner, like at the Olympics.  Outside of that, it seems ridiculous.  What does the anthem have to do with a bunch of people chasing or hitting or throwing balls?  We don't play it before movies or concerts or plays.  We don't play it before chess matches and spelling bees. Congress doesn't play it before each session.   What is the purpose of it at a ballgame?

Agree. There is such a thing as getting carried away with patriotism. 

[Tara]

I don’t interpret any of Bill’s opinion on people focusing on better health to mean he is saying the government should get involved. I think he is saying it is a cause that should be getting more attention.

I loved when Bill called Christina out on her silliness that young people in their early 20’s see how imperfect the world is, as if they are the first generation that ever had an intelligent thought. She said nothing worth listening to; it was like listening to teenagers tell their parents they are too old and too out of touch to understand the world; except she’s not a teenager. Stupid woman.

[Starchild]

On 9/15/2021 at 4:22 PM, izabella said:

This.  I have never understood why the national anthem is played before some game.  I get it if it's an international competition and they play the anthem for the winner, like at the Olympics.  Outside of that, it seems ridiculous.  What does the anthem have to do with a bunch of people chasing or hitting or throwing balls?  We don't play it before movies or concerts or plays.  We don't play it before chess matches and spelling bees. Congress doesn't play it before each session.   What is the purpose of it at a ballgame?

When I was a kid in the 70s in Canada, they used to play the national anthem before a movie, where I was at least. They don't anymore though.

I think Bill is oversimplifying the obesity problem. This is more than just people making bad decisions. For some, the bad food is the only realistic option they have.

Beyond simple choice, in order to eat well you need at least three things: access, money, and time.

Some people simply don't have easy access to healthy food, maybe depending on where they live. Take "mass produced" areas like prison food, or school lunches where hamburgers and pizza often reign. It's just cheaper to produce a lot of it at once when you use the less healthy stuff.

If they do have access to healthier options, it's often more expensive than the less healthy alternatives, making it a real challenge for people suffering from poverty to choose the $5 head of cauliflower over the $1 box of mac and cheese.

Finally, cooking takes time. If you're working multiple jobs to make ends meet, sometimes all you have time for is food made for can openers and microwaves.

Beyond individuals, the North American economic engine runs on sugar, fat and salt. Maybe that's where the government should replicate the anti-smoking blueprint. Force companies to make healthier food cheaper. They can afford it.

Choice is definitely part of it, but there are a lot of socio-economic factors that feed the problem. Just having doctors tell their patients (the ones who can afford to see a doctor at all) to eat better is not going to cut it.

[DoctorAtomic]

On 9/15/2021 at 2:22 PM, izabella said:

What is the purpose of it at a ballgame?

To drum up national support for World War I. 

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by DoctorAtomic

[DoctorAtomic]

6 hours ago, Starchild said:

I think Bill is oversimplifying the obesity problem. This is more than just people making bad decisions. For some, the bad food is the only realistic option they have.

Beyond simple choice, in order to eat well you need at least three things: access, money, and time.

 

That's totally right. To be fair, Bill has talked about food deserts on the show before. Like they were saying, the government could push nutrition just using the bully pulpit for starters. 

6 hours ago, Starchild said:

Finally, cooking takes time. If you're working multiple jobs to make ends meet, sometimes all you have time for is food made for can openers and microwaves.

I don't think so. Nothing I make takes more than a half hour to an hour at most. It takes a little more planning. But when you do have time, you can makes things and just freeze them too. There's lots of little things you can do that's not going to be hours in the kitchen. But it is definitely true that the cost is a huge factor. 

 

[aghst]

So this blogger doesn't believe there is a statistically significant increased risk for obese people of dying from covid than people with healthy weight.

 

Quote

How trivial?  Consider a group, such as people in their late 50s and early 60s, who in 2020 had an overall mortality rate of one death from COVID for every one thousand people in that particular age group.  (Note that .1% wasn’t the case or infection fatality rate from COVID in this cohort: it was the overall mortality rate from COVID for everyone in the cohort, whether they contracted the virus or not).  What the statistics in the CDC study indicate is that in a group of 12,000 “healthy weight” people in that age group, you could expect 12 COVID deaths, while in a group of 12,000 Class I obese people (BMI 30-34.4) in that age group you could expect one more annual death from COVID than the total number of deaths from COVID in the healthy weight group.  And again, this in no way can be taken as any kind of real evidence that this one extra annual death (among 12,000 people) was caused by the “excess” weight of those in the obese cohort.

In sum, if we combine the overweight and Class I obese patients into a single cohort, we get a relative risk for death from COVID that is essentially identical to that seen in the “healthy weight” category – slightly lower in the overweight category, and slightly higher in the Class I obese category.  

In fact the relative risk in the combined cohort is so close to that in the “healthy weight” cohort that there is no statistically significant difference in risk for COVID death between, on the one hand, the “healthy weight” group, and, on the other, everyone in the overweight and Class I obese categories.

https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/09/covid-and-the-moral-panic-over-obesity

[deirdra]

72.7% of Americans were obese or overweight in 2020, so the the COVID stats are not far off from the total population statistics - anyone can get COVID, even normal-weight but sickly & sallow-looking Bill Maher.

Edited September 20, 2021 by deirdra

[ICantDoThatDave]

And he did, didn't he?  But he showed no symptoms.  Had to cancel a show (or two?), but no actual symptoms.  I think it only reinforced his view that being "relatively healthy" is a big factor in hospitalization/survival. 

I don't think he's wrong to emphasize "general unhealthiness" as a factor, much like I didn't think Michelle Obama was wrong to do so.  I also agree with those who point out it's not an easily, or quickly correctable condition.  It's frustrating that both get pushback for even bringing it up - both from the right & the left (& normally I hate both-sidesing an issue, but it's clearly the case here).  If no one is even pointing it out as a correlation or even a factor, much less trying to do anything about it, then nothing will ever get done, & those stats will only get worse as time passes.

 

[DoctorAtomic]

Bill has also suggested on the show as have others that a covid shot may become as routine as a flu shot, so the problem isn't going away.