S01.E12: Through The Valley Of Death

[scarynikki12]

Quote

Lois and John Henry Irons can't seem to agree on the best way to stop Morgan Edge.

 

 

[scarynikki12]

So Lois and Clark are in their early-ish forties.

I love Mama Lois being strong for her boys but still needing a shoulder of her own. Props to Lane for finally being there for her.

Jon helping Jordan focus his powers to find Clark. Insert heart emojis.

I agree with Irons that Clark wants him around because he’ll kill him if it comes to it. It’s not his first choice by any stretch but he knows what he’s capable of so having Irons available to act is a smart play.

Jon is so good at being supportive that I want him to be a cheerleader. His teams would never lose.

Lois using her reporter pad even while there’s a crisis going on is exactly why I adore her.

All those lovely family moments we had throughout the season help Clark resist turning to the dark side.

Diggle on this gem of a show is perfect. Telling off Lane and Irons is what my baby does.

Lana standing up for the family and Kyle going along gave us a lovely family scene. 

Lois respects Clark’s decision to keep the secret of Superman to the point that she didn’t tell the boys even though it may have made things easier. She lets him choose who to tell and when. So her telling Irons shows just how afraid she is for his life.

Irons you had accepted the reality of doppelgängers last time we saw you so cut out the “I saw you die” nonsense.

Jabba The Dad with the smug expression at Supes red eyes.

My snuggle muffin Jon appealing to Irons about Clark the awesome dad and finding another way. He and Diggle should become friends. They’re ride or die for their people and give great supportive talk.

I see Irons is going for Cognitive Recalibration on Clark before the emotional appeal.

Of course it worked. There wasn’t any doubt but it’s still nice to see.

Did Edge say Zod is coming? I’m not sure I heard that right. 

[cambridgeguy]

Good to see Diggle but he really didn't do anything aside from telling off Sam and disappointing fans who were expecting him to use what he found in the Arrow finale.  Oh, and he finally brings the show into the Arrowverse, so let's assume Kara, Barry, J'onn, etc. were stuck in the Phantom Zone, Speed Force, or other inaccessible place while all of this was happening.

And good lord, Smallville appears to be filled with a bunch of judgemental assholes.  I guess they didn't remember standing right behind Kyle on the Morgan Edge is awesome bandwagon.

[jcin617]

Why do they always leave the bad guy who’s an existential threat to Earth alive?  If Superman couldn’t do it, John certainly would.

[bettername2come]

Needed just a little more Diggle. I was half-hoping he'd show up all Green Lantern style to help Superman and Steel fight Edge. And I'm disappointed we didn't get some kind of John confusion. But I did love that Diggle spoke up for Clark as someone he'd fought beside, and that he was also speaking for all the heroes, including Oliver, who probably has near mythical status in-universe after dying to save the multiverse. Although, there's something deeply wrong about Oliver being mentioned on this show before Kara...

Family bonding! I was weirdly happy to see Sophie Cushing rejoin her family. I felt bad for her missing the family time, although I don't blame them for leaving her with friends as they repaired the vandalized window. Really, Kyle Cushing actor is so talented, he'd be such an easy character to hate if he didn't carry that sense of a man genuinely trying to do the right thing for everyone he loves and just failing at almost every turn. And yay for Kent family group hug! 

I love Jon encouraging his brother, appealing to John Henry Irons about who his dad is, and apologizing for hitting him with a truck. I want to say he's the heart of the Kent family, but, nope I love them all too much, and they are all self-sacrificing and brave and kind and they shall have a four-way tie. 

I feel like everything got wrapped up a little too quickly and neatly. Which probably means something will go horribly wrong next week. 

[AimingforYoko]

I was surprised we didn't get at least one episode of Evil Superman, but I suppose between Omni-Man and Homelander we've gotten our fill.

So what's Edge's plan, I wonder? I'm sure Leslie's got something to do with it.

[Primal Slayer]

This was probably the weakest episode to me. It took me the entire episode to realize that we had 3 Johns in this episode lol, that's a new record. 

Superman being taken over by Zod kind of fell flat since he didnt really do anything, there was no impact to it unless it pops up again by end of the season. 

Diggles appearances have been....appearances. I dont think he's in the next episode? Which if he's not then he really was wasted in this one and his own personal storyline didnt go anywhere from The Flash. 

It was a good Lois episode as far acting and getting across how much Clark means to her. 

The Lanes....felt out of place. I know they kind of were there to show us how the town is dealing with those that were taken over by Kryptonians but if you took them out of the episode nothing would be lost. 

[Lantern7]

Kyle is a dead man walking.

I hated him to start. Then he got possessed. Now he's achieving stability, but the town has turned against him. Is it possible the people of this Smallville are dumber than the ones from Smallville? What the fuck is Kyle supposed to say?

"Look . . . this town was in dire straits. Some might say dying. We needed help. So yeah, I was the guy driving the bandwagon. But how in the HELL was I supposed to know he was from another planet looking for fresh bodies for possession? I know we live in a weird world. People got powers, our greatest hero is a guy in tights, and we had a week of mourning a fella whose whole deal was shooting a bow. Hell, I know three moms that named their babies 'Oliver'. A corporate bigwig like Morgan Edge being an evil alien is . . . just . . . are you seriously gonna pin THAT on me?!?"

On the bright side, Superman beat Edge. Edge wasn't Zod, right? Something Something son that Lara had with traditional Kryptonian ways . . . but not Zod. Anyway, Clark went through a shit-ton of agony, and it took John Henry to talk him down . . .at it took half the cast to talk John out of outright murdering Clark.

Is this the last episode with Diggle and directed by David Ramsey? It's been nice seeing John and the Arrowverse's best gun show, but there didn't seem to be much about him to grasp. No headaches or whispers here.

Loved the boys helping their dad. And this time, they didn't nearly kill themselves or others to do it. They're learning!

How many episodes remain? I'm thinking Edge getting locked up is part of his plan, but that seems obvious.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Lantern7

[scarynikki12]

12 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

"Look . . . this town was in dire straits. Some might say dying. We needed help. So yeah, I was the guy driving the bandwagon. But how in the HELL was I supposed to know he was from another planet looking for fresh bodies for possession? I know we live in a weird world. People got powers, our greatest hero is a guy in tights, and we had a week of mourning a fella whose whole deal was shooting a bow. Hell, I know three moms that named their babies 'Oliver'. A corporate bigwig like Morgan Edge being an evil alien is . . . just . . . are you seriously gonna pin THAT on me?!?"

This 100% needs to be what Kyle says to everyone in town. Especially the "hero in tights" bit.

34 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

And I'm disappointed we didn't get some kind of John confusion.

That would have been fun. We had Diggle, Irons, and Snuggle Muffin all fairly close to each other and no one thought to yell out "John?" so that all three could turn around at the same time? Missed opportunity show.

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

So Lois and Clark are in their early-ish forties.

I love Mama Lois being strong for her boys but still needing a shoulder of her own. Props to Lane for finally being there for her.

Jon helping Jordan focus his powers to find Clark. Insert heart emojis.

I agree with Irons that Clark wants him around because he’ll kill him if it comes to it. It’s not his first choice by any stretch but he knows what he’s capable of so having Irons available to act is a smart play.

Jon is so good at being supportive that I want him to be a cheerleader. His teams would never lose.

Lois using her reporter pad even while there’s a crisis going on is exactly why I adore her.

All those lovely family moments we had throughout the season help Clark resist turning to the dark side.

Diggle on this gem of a show is perfect. Telling off Lane and Irons is what my baby does.

Lana standing up for the family and Kyle going along gave us a lovely family scene. 

Lois respects Clark’s decision to keep the secret of Superman to the point that she didn’t tell the boys even though it may have made things easier. She lets him choose who to tell and when. So her telling Irons shows just how afraid she is for his life.

Irons you had accepted the reality of doppelgängers last time we saw you so cut out the “I saw you die” nonsense.

Jabba The Dad with the smug expression at Supes red eyes.

My snuggle muffin Jon appealing to Irons about Clark the awesome dad and finding another way. He and Diggle should become friends. They’re ride or die for their people and give great supportive talk.

I see Irons is going for Cognitive Recalibration on Clark before the emotional appeal.

Of course it worked. There wasn’t any doubt but it’s still nice to see.

Did Edge say Zod is coming? I’m not sure I heard that right. 

I would say that hypothetically Lois has to be more like mid-40s. She was established as a Daily Planet journalist when Superman started 20 years ago, and so she presumably put a few years in before getting where she was. 

I really would watch a show that had no superheroics in it but was just Jon being a good dude.

Did Clark really signal Lois to call JHI, or was Lois just making that up? It's been so long since the previous episode I don't remember.

Edge put virtual Zod into Clark, but Clark managed to fight it off thanks to the power of family (Insert Fast and the Furious meme here). So Edge said that Zod is gone. Which I guess means that there is for some reason just one ride per customer. Otherwise, Edge could just try to re-upload virtual Zod to Clark (or whoever).

1 hour ago, jcin617 said:

Why do they always leave the bad guy who’s an existential threat to Earth alive?  If Superman couldn’t do it, John certainly would.

Edge is powerful but he can be stopped. 

But then again, didn't JHI use the red solar rocket on Edge? If so, didn't he fall from orbit with no/weakened powers? How is he still alive? Did Argus or JHI screw up the creation of the red solar rocket? Or was whatever Morgan doing with the Eradicator limit its effectiveness somehow?

 

[ukgirl71]

While I love how tight the writing is on this show, I have to admit I’m a little disappointed Superman wasn’t bad for just a bit longer.  And the Diggle cameo was kinda over-hyped for what it actually delivered, despite the much called-for references to the Arrowverse.  I know some people maybe think Zod has been done to death in the Superman stories we’ve seen so far, but I’m quietly hoping that really isn’t the last we see of him.  BTW, was anyone else a little creeped out by Tyler’s Zod voice 😅?

it’s hard to say who my favourite was in this episode - the ever-wonderful Jon and his motivational skills (can I hire him for pep talks?) or the achingly vulnerable, yet somehow strong as ever, Lois.  That speech she gave John Henry about Clark was just 🥰 😢 🥰  The strength of the Kent family dynamics is what really makes this show for me - bravo to whoever cast our little Gang of Four.  Their reunion at the end will have me smiling all day.

I must give special mention to Erik Valdez for actually making me a fan of Kyle now - he doesn’t deserve the hate he’s getting now, but that’s human nature I suppose, to find someone to blame.

What exactly was Edge doing with the Eradicator at the end?  I’d love to hear theories!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[thuganomics85]

Damn, Morgan Edge and his creepy holo daddy were really putting Zod of all people in Clark's head?  That's just some straight up grade A trolling from those two!  Basically some "Not only are we planning on turning you, but we're going to turn you into your mortal enemy who isn't Lex Luthor!" trolling.

Part of me also wishes that we saw a little bit more of "Evil Superman"; especially since Tyler Hoechlin continues to be surprisingly menacing in the role; but I liked how all of his family played a part in saving him.  Jordan was able to use his powers to locate him (with support from Jonathan), Lois used her badass journalist skills to get solid proof that there is a chance of saving him, and then Jonathan of all people himself brought it home by actually putting a dent in John Henry Irons' one track "Kill Superman!" plan, by pointing out that Clark/Superman is a father too and a good one at that.  And it all ends with a nice family hug!  The Kents are the best!

Diggle continues his tour of the current Arrowverse, although he was kind of underused here.  At least he got a few good moments with the cast.  Although I imagine any future partnership with Sam Lane is in jeopardy.  Next time Sam needs something, Diggle is probably going to be like "Well, I don't know, Sam!  You might just use whatever we give you to attack Barry for breaking the speed limit or Courtney for breaking her curfew, you ass!"  Hopefully this won't be the last we see of good old Dig in the Arrowverse.  Although, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he just starts showing up in all CW shows.  Heads over to Walker to help out on the current case.  Or maybe go on Kung Fu and help Nicky quit getting her ass kicked all the time.  Or maybe go on Riverdale and be amazed that everything in there is so insane that dealing with everything from magic to time-travel, from aliens to a massive stuffed plushie named Beebo seems less far-fetched...

Sheesh, citizens of Smallville!  Way to pile on Kyle and the rest of the Cushings there, assholes!  I certainly gave my fair share of criticism to his Morgan Edge cheerleading at first, but he didn't point a gun to your heads.  Y'all were all capable of seeing the signs or, hell, listening to Lois' concerns, but y'all wanted to believe as well, so maybe next time start looking in the mirror instead of trying to find a scapegoat.

With his metal suit and a hammer he can summon with his hand, John Henry Irons seems to be a mixture of Iron Man and Thor, dipped in some D.C. syrup.

Not sure what is going on with Morgan's "real plan", but judging from that smirk, it seems to be going well.  Uh oh!

[Cthulhudrew]

8 hours ago, jcin617 said:

Why do they always leave the bad guy who’s an existential threat to Earth alive?  If Superman couldn’t do it, John certainly would.

What makes me curious is why draining the solar power out of all these Kryptonians/Hybrids doesn't seem to do anything until after they've survived a fall from hundreds or thousands of feet to the ground.

Also: Is John Diggle's new superhero name Deliveryman? Doesn't ARGUS have some grunts who can go around the Arrowverse dropping off briefcases of technology? Does FEDEX not exist? That's a lot of taxpayer dollars funding an overqualified schlepper.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Cthulhudrew

[bettername2come]

35 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Is John Diggle's new superhero name Deliveryman? Doesn't ARGUS have some grunts who can go around the Arrowverse dropping off briefcases of technology? Does FEDEX not exist?

When it absolutely, positively has to be there today, call in the Deliveryman. But, seriously, a powerful, probably top secret anti-Kryptonian weapon, I can see only trusting it to someone with higher clearance. 

3 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Dig in the Arrowverse.  Although, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he just starts showing up in all CW shows. 

I don’t see why this should stop there. He can show up on This Is Us, give Randall a heartwarming speech on family. Stop by an NCIS, help track a national security threat. And maybe Shaun from the Good Doctor will give him some answers about his headaches.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I dreamed that the show was going to give Jonathan some of the superpowers Jordan hasn't shown yet -- super-speed and flight. Like I imagined a scene where he jumped up and hovered in the air longer than possible. Hopefully that is prophetic.

A few further reflections on the episode: 

The notion of not killing Edge becomes that more ridiculous when there was all the debate about killing Superman with his proven track record of goodness. Edge is physically as powerful as Superman (or just about), and there is no good side to potentially reach, no reasoning or bargaining with him, and he has shown the ability to transform ordinary people into Kryptonians and to brainwash at least one of the two existing Kryptonians on Earth. If that isn't a must-kill threat, one does not exist. 

The Dig cameo was decent for what it was, but it does remind me to bring up yet again the notion that this show should at least reference Kara. When he was name-dropping Oliver, he could just as easily mentioned something about Supergirl being off-world or whatever. Part of the drawback of Dig's righteous indignation is that he still turns over the Argus doohickey to Sam even knowing what it's for. Part of the other issue is that we're supposed to expect that Argus didn't realize the application behind a red solar rocket might be killing/incapacitating a Kryptonian, of whom there were only two at the moment? Also, why would Argus only make one of these red solar rockets when there were three evil Kryptonians on the loose (Edge, Kal-Zod and Leslie)? 

I had anticipated more angst at JHI learning that this world's version of Superman was in love with this version's love of his life. Maybe he will need time to process it. 

I do wonder if the show will address the notion that billionaire Morgan Edge has now been revealed to be a genocidal Kryptonian. Like do his businesses just fold? Is the Smallville Gazette or the Edge-owned Daily Planet going to report anything about how what we've seen so far this season?

I wish Lana had stood up for herself when her friend criticized her. "Actually Emily, I obviously did not know what Edge was up to, so you shouldn't be blaming me for the fact that he tricked you into becoming a host for a Kryptonian consciousness." 

[kickingnames]

I guess I really am a sucker for the “never give up on family” message — loved everything about that for the Kents and the Cushings. Lois and Jonathan continue to be the extraordinary humans in the family, and I love them dearly.

Man, have I missed John Diggle! But as per usual — this needed more Diggle and Lyla. (I’d want to see Kara too, but only after there’s no danger of having to tie her show’s continuity to this one. I’m actually enjoying the disconnectedness.)

My guess is that Edge’s blast to the Eradicator was the reverse of what Superman did — Superman pulled all the consciousnesses back into the Eradicator, but Edge essentially beamed them all out at a high-enough level in the atmosphere/space that we’re going to continue to see Kryptonian issues landing on Earth for some time. It wasn’t controlled like his machine, but probably just as effective.

My other guess is that Leslie Larr is “in the wind” helping to find and push forward these Kryptonian issues. I get the feeling she’s going to keep getting away, and possibly become the Lex Luthor of this show (she’s got the name for the job).

[TV Anonymous]

I do not read much of entertainment news, so ELI5. What does Diggle do in these Arrowverse shows? He appeared on Batwoman, The Flash, and now this. Is he up for a new series? There was a speculation that he would be Green Lantern but I believe that HBO Max already cast that series and Diggle would not be involved.

[anamika]

Well, that was anti-climatic.

Still liking Wole Parks as John Henry. Hope he sticks around. I liked his response to dorky Clark being superman lol. And the hammer smash of Supes was  good.

Nice to see Diggle, but he was pointless. Better this show stay out of the arrow verse.

The Kyle drama made no sense. All those townspeople also fell for Morgan Edge's charm and willingly went into brainwash chambers. Why they pissed off at Kyle?

Jon continues to give pep talks to everyone. I wonder if they will give the character anything else to do. I did like his convo with John Henry Irons.  I would sign up for John Henry and Jon Kent saving the world in the RV with cool weapons and armor suits.

The actor who plays Jordan is the weakest link - hopefully he improves next season.

Edited July 14, 2021 by anamika

[kickingnames]

12 minutes ago, anamika said:

The actor who plays Jordan is the weakest link - hopefully he improves next season.

He’s also the youngest of the main cast, and has been saddled with the most “troubled teen angst” of the storylines (along with the lamest floppy hair). I’m hoping the show will move away from at least a couple of these things next year, although this is still the CW so I’m not betting on it. (But seriously CW, do not force this child to keep this hairstyle just to show he’s the more angsty twin. Your viewers are not too stupid to tell them apart.)

[futurechemist]

I like it when a superhero show finds a creative way to resolve a fight rather than resorting to a mess of fast-paced flying around and punching and energy beams.

I also think that after having close-ups on the face of a hero with "iron" in his name that is in a futuristic flight suit with a female AI spouting warnings about the shields being down to 47%, DC should probably be writing Marvel a royalty check.

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 hours ago, anamika said:

The Kyle drama made no sense. All those townspeople also fell for Morgan Edge's charm and willingly went into brainwash chambers. Why they pissed off at Kyle?

In fairness, no one said people were going to be 100 percent rational about this sort of thing. People blame others for things that aren't their fault all the time in misdirected anger, denial, scapegoating.

That said, Kyle was Edge's number one hype man. His vouching for Edge probably brought some people who were on the fence into the fold.

And Lana directly worked for Edge, vetting candidates to join the leadership program that turned out to be bodysnatching, Kryptonian style.

It doesn't seem crazy to either think that Kyle and Lana knew what Edge was up to or that they should have known what Edge was doing.

[Cthulhudrew]

7 hours ago, bettername2come said:

I don’t see why this should stop there. He can show up on This Is Us, give Randall a heartwarming speech on family. Stop by an NCIS, help track a national security threat. And maybe Shaun from the Good Doctor will give him some answers about his headaches.

This would be great. John Diggle can be the TV world's new Detective John Munch.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Cthulhudrew

[akg]

Diggle seemed very interested when he was told JHI was from an alternate universe. I wonder if there will be any follow up to that. As far as he (along with every other Arrowverse character) knows, Oliver either combined or destroyed all AUs in the Arrow finale. Finding out that one still exists should be a big deal.

I loved all of the family stuff in this episode. Everyone was fantastic.

[bettername2come]

5 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

There was a speculation that he would be Green Lantern but I believe that HBO Max already cast that series and Diggle would not be involved.

Based on this article, I'm under the impression that the Green Lantern show is supposed to feature several Green Lanterns, so I've assumed Diggle would become a Green Lantern and be a guest or recurring character on that series or at least get an ongoing role in future crossovers and the like. 

[scarynikki12]

1 minute ago, akg said:

Diggle seemed very interested when he was told JHI was from an alternate universe. I wonder if there will be any follow up to that. As far as he (along with every other Arrowverse character) knows, Oliver either combined or destroyed all AUs in the Arrow finale. Finding out that one still exists should be a big deal.

I loved all of the family stuff in this episode. Everyone was fantastic.

I assume he was told that Irons’ world was also destroyed in an offscreen follow up conversation and realized it was due to Oliver’s reset. 

[mommalib]

Good episode and good show overall. I's always nice to see Diggle no matter what he's doing. And it I love John Henry Irons, he was the big  hero of this episode. Helping bring Clark back and literally blasting Morgan out of the sky. And I love this version of Superman and Lois especially watching them be parents. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

32 minutes ago, akg said:

Diggle seemed very interested when he was told JHI was from an alternate universe. I wonder if there will be any follow up to that. As far as he (along with every other Arrowverse character) knows, Oliver either combined or destroyed all AUs in the Arrow finale. Finding out that one still exists should be a big deal.

Supergirl (Brainiac 5), Flash (at least a couple Wellses) and Batwoman (Beth Kane), I believe, all featured doppelgangers who made their way to the prime earth or made their presence felt post-Crisis. Could be wrong. Could be that Diggle heard about one of those doppelgangers and understood it was possible, or it could be that he understood that there could have been branching back into a multiverse post-Ollie's fix. Or it could be that he thought JHI made it to this Earth before the fix and got to stay, like Black Siren. 

40 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

I assume he was told that Irons’ world was also destroyed in an offscreen follow up conversation and realized it was due to Oliver’s reset. 

We would be only guessing as to whether JHI's universe still exists or if it was merged with the prime universe by Ollie. We were shown that some universes still existed after the merger of most of them. 

[akg]

7 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Supergirl (Brainiac 5), Flash (at least a couple Wellses) and Batwoman (Beth Kane), I believe, all featured doppelgangers who made their way to the prime earth or made their presence felt post-Crisis.

I think Beth Kane was explained as being kind of a remnant when her universe was destroyed. That was part of their problem, she couldn't stay in the same universe as Alice and she had no where to go. The Wellses were basically ghosts haunting the surviving Wells since their worlds had been destroyed. I can't remember the story behind Brainiac 5 though so I'm not sure how that fits in (is there an all-Arrowverse shows thread somewhere? This discussion is technically related to this episode but it feels off-topic).

13 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I assume he was told that Irons’ world was also destroyed in an offscreen follow up conversation and realized it was due to Oliver’s reset. 

I've lost track. Do we know JHI's world was destroyed when he left it? I hate the thought that Natalie is dead (although her losing her mom and dad so horribly isn't great either). I know she's not really Jordan and Jonathan's sister but it might be nice to see them becoming friends.

18 hours ago, bettername2come said:

I was weirdly happy to see Sophie Cushing rejoin her family

I spent all episode wondering if the writers had decided to just go full Chuck Cunningham and hope we'd forget she ever existed so I was relieved to see her too. I do hope they fill her in on some of what's going on though. She's going to wonder why some of her friends won't talk to her.

 

[cambridgeguy]

13 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Hopefully this won't be the last we see of good old Dig in the Arrowverse. 

He hasn't shown up on Supergirl yet, so that's something to look forward to.  Especially if they get a chance to talk about what happened - Kara, you'll never guess what happened to your cousin!  Maybe the two of you should make an effort to keep in touch.

One thing that everyone seemed to forget about while they were talking about the red solar rocket being the only thing they had to stop Superman/Edge - didn't Sam have a stockpile of kryptonite for those weapons he was testing?  Even if the weapons themselves were flawed the kryptonite is still good.

[Chicago Redshirt]

12 minutes ago, akg said:

I've lost track. Do we know JHI's world was destroyed when he left it? I hate the thought that Natalie is dead (although her losing her mom and dad so horribly isn't great either). I know she's not really Jordan and Jonathan's sister but it might be nice to see them becoming friends.

 

This episode, JHI essentially said that I was trying to destroy Evil Superman with a red solar rocket and suddenly I found myself here. The implication I took from this is although his Earth was devastated and Natalie/Lois and millions of others killed or enslaved, JHI Earth still wasn't "destroyed" as in no longer existing when he last left it. 

[tennisgurl]

I knew they couldn't do a thing about an evil Kryptonian trying to take over the world to create a New Krypton without General Zod, and while he was only in the back of Clark's head for the time being, it seems like this wont be the last time we will see him. I do wish we had seen a bit more of "evil" Superman, as Tyler is really great at switching from nice guy Clark to murderous destroyer of worlds, but I am also glad that he got back to normal and to his family pretty quickly, watching Lois and the boys worrying themselves to death was way too sad to even get much enjoyment out of Tyler getting his evil on. The end of Edge seemed a bit rushed, but I overall thought this was a really good payoff to everything that has happened so far, both with John Henry and with Edge, with enough threads to pick up later on when the show decides to return to the story of the Kryptonians. Its clear that Edge isn't done yet and his henchwoman is still in the wind, so we all know they will come back again. 

As always, the best part of the show and the glue that holds it together is the bond between the Kents, and I love that its what saved the day. It was really a team effort, with Lois investigating to see if Clark could still fight back after being possessed, Jordan finally getting his super hearing under control enough to reach his dad, Jonathan providing the necessary support that Jordan needed and finally got John Henry to really see Clark as a person and not a problem to be dealt with, and Clark managed to break free from Edge and Zod because he loves his family that much. So many great moments, with Lois trying to stay strong for the clearly terrified twins while obviously scared out of her mind, Jordan's guilt at being unable to save his dad even with his powers, Jonathan being as supportive and awesome as he always is, and of course the big Kent family group hug. Honestly I love watching them all so much I could just want a Kent family vacation, no monsters or supervillains or need for heroics, just fun family time. 

Damn it Sam, would you stop doing such sketchy shit, your just going to make Thanksgiving really awkward if you keep almost blowing up your son in law. Really, its not even that he has this Kryptonite weaponry, that is something that they could really use in case Superman gets possessed again or another evil Kryptonian shows up, its that he's always so secretive about it, like he has something to hide. I think that is probably just his personality, and not any real desire to hurt Clark, but he really needs to be more upfront with his family. And now Diggle is disappointed and you never want to disappoint Diggle! 

Speaking of, its this shows turn for their John Diggle cameo! That guy is seriously getting around, I hope he still makes it home for dinner some nights with Lyla and the kids, plus he still has that tiny little power issue that he seems to still be putting off. I was hoping that he would show up in full Green Lantern attire, ring blasting, to help Clark and John Henry, but his cameo was alright as it was. He was basically there to throw some more exposition at us and to remind us that this show takes place in the Arrowverse despite the lack of references to any other part of it, even as everyone still awkwardly refuses to mention Kara. One bit of "we cant reach her" line could fix that, as she was in the Phantom Zone for most of her season and would have a perfectly good excuse not to be around. Still always nice to see him though, being a pretty normal down to Earth guy he fits well into this show that has a more realistic feel than a lot of Arrowverse shows, even with the aliens and super tech. I guess this also confirms for him that the multiverse is still out there, even if they cant reach it anymore. Diggle mentioning Oliver made me smile but also sad, I hope someone has checked in with him in between becoming the Nick Fury of the Arrowverse, with his best friend being recently deceased and everything. So are we finally going to get John as the Green Lantern when he's done on everyone else's? 

Jonathan really is the hero we deserve, his natural sweetness and ability to never give up on people are his true superpowers. His talk with John Henry was really great, reminding him that Superman isn't just a threat, be it because he turned evil or was forced into it, that had to be put down, but that he is also a loving father and husband, just like John Henry is. Its actually similar in concept to the infamously silly "MARTHA!!??" scene from Batman V Superman, except being superior in every way possible. An angry human afraid of Superman and the power he possessed tries to kill him to eliminate him as a possible threat, only to relent at the last second when he sees the humanity in him and the commonality between the two men, that this isn't just some scary all powerful alien, but someone who has people who has loved ones and feelings the same way he does. Except, unlike in that movie, the scene actually makes a lot of sense and has real emotional depth. John has been utterly driven by the love of his family, and realizing that Clark is driven by the same thing let him emphasize with him and allowed him to finally get through to Clark. I am really glad that John Henry has fully come around, he even got an invite to family dinner, the best that Lois can order, although he left the Kents to let them have some much deserved family time. 

So many Johns in this episode, I half expected a "Doctor. Doctor. Doctor. Doctor" style scene. 

I get that everyone in town went through something really crazy and traumatizing, but blaming Kyle and the Cushings for everything seems really unfair. I guess they feel like they need to blame someone with Edge gone, and while I was frequently annoyed by Kyle's constant cheerleading for Edge, even with the mounting evidence of his sketchiness, its not fair to blame him for it. Everyone went along with it with great enthusiasm, and its not like he had any idea he was some evil alien looking to stick alien ghosts into people, he just wanted to boost the local economy. At least everyone being pissed at them has given the Cushings some time to bond. 

[anamika]

9 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

In fairness, no one said people were going to be 100 percent rational about this sort of thing. People blame others for things that aren't their fault all the time in misdirected anger, denial, scapegoating.

That said, Kyle was Edge's number one hype man. His vouching for Edge probably brought some people who were on the fence into the fold.

And Lana directly worked for Edge, vetting candidates to join the leadership program that turned out to be bodysnatching, Kryptonian style.

It doesn't seem crazy to either think that Kyle and Lana knew what Edge was up to or that they should have known what Edge was doing.

 I mean, yeah we can come up with irrationality as a reason for many plot points, but Kyle and Lana could have easily countered those accusations with rationality. The townspeople think so highly of Kyle - a guy who likes his alcohol - that they got into Edge's weird machine to get their brains biologically altered because Kyle vouched for him? Without even checking with Kyle on this? That was their choice.

And it's not like Lana did not try to keep Emily away or Lois barged into their meeting and told everyone that Edge is a baddie - they didn't want to listen at that point because they were as desperate as Kyle for those jobs. Again, something that Kyle and Lana can easily bring up.

It just seems like a badly thought out plot point to give the Cushings something to do this episode. And if they are going to use this to push Kyle to do something bad, then yeah. And that removing the graffiti scene really felt out of place in this episode, along with the missing daughter that they remembered by the end.

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by anamika

[kickingnames]

New theory upon rewatch: Edge is no longer Tal-Rho (or not just Tal-Rho). At the very end when he’s sitting in the Kryptonite cage, there’s a brief brightness that I chalked up to a lens flare the first time around. But when I saw it again, I realized it was Edge’s eyes glowing — like, they would have glowed red for a split second before his creepy smile, but you can’t tell that it’s red because he’s in a green Kryptonite-tinted cage. But, realizing his eyes glowed, I’m guessing he used the Eradicator to transfer one (or more) consciousness into himself before he got taken down. Curious who that’s going to be, since apparently Zod is already off the table.

(If it turns out that it’s the mook who had it out for Jonathan, and he’s is actually a significant Kryptonian, that’ll be interesting….)

[miasth]

Was JHI really going to just pop in on his dead doppelganger's sister? That could have went badly. He is still all over the map regarding understanding these people are not the same as the people on his earth.

Sam Lane claiming he won't doubt him again...I automatically wondered how long that will last. 

The town turning on the Cushings is not surprising.  I have to agree that the Cushing scenes felt out of place in this episode.

Does Edge have multiple personalities now or by doing what he did was he able to send the consciousness' out to latch on to any hosts it can find. 

As usual great Kent family scenes. Jon saying wow when JHI took off makes me think he wants something like his armor/suit. Many people want him to have powers, but I do not.

[Diapason Untuned]

13 hours ago, anamika said:

 I mean, yeah we can come up with irrationality as a reason for many plot points, but Kyle and Lana could have easily countered those accusations with rationality. The townspeople think so highly of Kyle - a guy who likes his alcohol - that they got into Edge's weird machine to get their brains biologically altered because Kyle vouched for him? Without even checking with Kyle on this? That was their choice.

And it's not like Lana did not try to keep Emily away or Lois barged into their meeting and told everyone that Edge is a baddie - they didn't want to listen at that point because they were as desperate as Kyle for those jobs. Again, something that Kyle and Lana can easily bring up.

It just seems like a badly thought out plot point to give the Cushings something to do this episode. And if they are going to use this to push Kyle to do something bad, then yeah. And that removing the graffiti scene really felt out of place in this episode, along with the missing daughter that they remembered by the end.

 

You can't counter emotion with reason. These people are angry and scared, of course they're going to gravitate to blaming the nearest person that they can and that's Kyle and Lana. It doesn't matter what they say to defend themselves. Maybe once people calm down they'll change their minds.

[Lady Calypso]

I figured that they wouldn't let Superman turn evil for that long, and maybe it was too early for a multi-episode Evil Superman. But I was somewhat intrigued by the idea of Evil Superman being a threatening presence for the rest of the season. However, I'm fairly convinced that John Henry Irons' Evil Superman is not only alive, but potentially followed JHI to this Earth (or will shortly) so we may still get an Evil Superman vs Our Superman episode eventually. 

I did like what John Henry Irons brought to this episode. From his first scene with him stalking his dead doppelganger's sister to him finding out Superman's secret to him meeting Superman's son (who also ran him over with his truck) to him having to talk Superman down, he really had a growth arc. It was good for him to know the secret because, otherwise, there's no way he would have listened to not just Lois, but Jonathan too, and it put into perspective that Superman had humanity for a reason. I think it also helped knowing that Lois was such a good person on any Earth that she'd never choose the wrong man to fall in love with. I'm sure that went through his mind. I'm glad he's an ally to the Kent family. 

Sam had some good moments in this episode as well. Now, we know he's a tough military general who has to put the world first over his family. It doesn't make him likeable in that sense, but I did like how he took a moment to comfort his daughter in the beginning, and he explained why he had to prepare for the worst case scenario. I doubt he took any pleasure in preparing to kill his son-in-law, despite the fact that the two often clash with world events. 

John Diggle! Who really just shows up to show that S&L is still on Earth Prime. Oh well, it was nice seeing you for a couple of scenes!

And for the last Jon of the episode, who showed that his heart is the best part about him. Him going to talk to John Henry Irons about his dad? That was an excellent scene for him. They've really established Jonathan as a caretaker, who cares about the people in his life and will always do anything to help the people. 

Jordan got to help out too with finding his dad. I actually kind of wish they showcased Jordan more. He hasn't really been shown to practice using his powers much, so I love that Jonathan was here to encourage Jordan, but I also think that Jordan has been underutilized in the main drama stuff. I actually would love to see some true character progression with Jordan. He's clearly a good kid who can help out and cares about people as well, but Jonathan's definitely gotten more to do this season. 

But the family stuff IS the best part of this show. Not just with the Kents, either. The Cushings got a chance to bond as a family this episode and face repercussions from the Morgan Edge stuff. Not that it's their fault, either. Yes, Kyle obviously encouraged the town to take a chance on Morgan Edge and he was very vocal about it for the first half of this season, but at the end of it, it's the town's choice to follow suit. Kyle never saw any of this coming because he was just as manipulated. Lana didn't even know WHAT Morgan had planned. She didn't know until it was too late about what the purposes of the Leadership Program were. I get that Emily is upset, but it's not your friend's fault that you chose to go through with it after having MORE info that Lana did about it.

I actually did think, for a minute, when Kyle got angry at the vandalism at their home that he was going to take off to find the people who did this. Colour me surprised when he stuck around and actually spent time with his family. Please show, I know you might be tempted to kill Kyle as the Big Season One Finale death as most of the Arrowverse shows have done at this point, but please leave Kyle alive. He has so much more to offer and I would hate to see Lana be torn apart with her husband's death after so much growth in twelve episodes. 

I wonder what Edge's plan is now that he's captured. I assume he has a backup plan, since we're not done the season yet.

[Chicago Redshirt]

7 hours ago, miasth said:

Was JHI really going to just pop in on his dead doppelganger's sister? That could have went badly. He is still all over the map regarding understanding these people are not the same as the people on his earth.

I will give him props. If I ever found myself in a parallel universe, I would not be able to resist visiting the doppelgangers of my loved ones. Even intellectually knowing that they were not MY loved ones and that my presence would probably freak them the f--- out, I would still want to see what they were about and to selfishly experience anything in the same ballpark as them.

[tvwatchergordis]

Have to say this was a very good episode. 

I had a feeling we wouldn't get evil Superman for long. The fans were torn on this some wanted him to be evil others didn't. I was in the former I was hoping that it was a plan to buy time, which it kinda was. Got to say that I love Clark fighting the eradication as long as he could. That's Superman right there.

The boys came thru for their dad. Jordan in using his powers and Jon in both getting Jordan to believe in himself eough to find their dad and then using his love for Clark and his fam to get JHI to change his mind. Jon and Jordan have grown so much as characters and I can't imagine this show without them.

Lois aw Lois. I just love her. Her undying faith in Clark even when all the chips were down was the best part of the episode for me. She fought so hard for him even when everyone else wanted to kill him. I knew she would tell John Henry the truth it was obvious that was extremely hard for her but she had to try in order to save the man she loves. Bitsie was incredible too. 

Sam ugh. I won't  say anything on him.

And my favorite scenes of the episode: Clark hearing Lois' voice when fighting Steel and immediately stopping. In all Superman stories/multiverses Lois Lane is the key love that they kept that. Also Great fight between evil Superman and Steel. The effects are so good on this show. I'm glad that JHI finally saw how different this world's Superman is to his. Good character development. The Kent family reunion just gorgeous all the way around.

Now what is Tal-Rho's plan? hm guess we'll find out next episode.

give it a 10/10

[bettername2come]

3 hours ago, tvwatchergordis said:

I'm glad that JHI finally saw how different this world's Superman is to his. Good character development. 

I really liked how they eased into it. With him initially trusting Superman enough to believe that him saying to get John was Superman knowing he’d be turned and wanting to be put down (which was certainly a step up from all John’s previous murder attempts), to being more reluctant about it, to seeing him as a husband and father, to taking down his shields and protecting Clark’s identity as he talks him down. I really love that Clark asking him to take him out was the final straw that made him not do it.

[tvwatchergordis]

3 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

I really liked how they eased into it. With him initially trusting Superman enough to believe that him saying to get John was Superman knowing he’d be turned and wanting to be put down (which was certainly a step up from all John’s previous murder attempts), to being more reluctant about it, to seeing him as a husband and father, to taking down his shields and protecting Clark’s identity as he talks him down. I really love that Clark asking him to take him out was the final straw that made him not do it.

Yeah. Superman willing to let John kill him in order to save his loved ones made him see that he's different. Lois kept telling him but he refused to see it. Jon was the first one to get him to see that maybe this Superman had a heart. When he wanted to sacrifice himself for the world he knew this one knew how to love. Which makes me wonder if his Kal-El didn't have a family. We know that version didn't have Lois but he could have married someone else. I doubt it though because like our Clark I think he would have fought the eradication for those he loved. Or something else happened to that Earth's Kal-El which nothing could bring him back anymore? I wonder if we'll know eventually. Because from the articles Clark saw that version was pretty similar to ours: a hero, til he turned.

[PAForrest]

Finally got a chance to catch up, and I have to say I thought this was a slow episode with a lot of expository padding. Diggle was nothing but padding, there honestly didn't seem to be much reason for him to show up except to deliver something that could have been specially shipped. Maybe he'll appear again in the future with something more to do at that time.

Superman wasn't Zod for very long, so there really was no tension to the plot. Though this appears to be confirmation as to what actually happened on JHI's world - Supes was likely taken over by Zod there too. And considering there is zero confirmation that JHI's weapon killed his Supes, I still think the guy made it through to this world the same as JHI did, and we just haven't seen him yet. I also continue to believe it's possible Natalie made it through on her own too. She wasn't dead when JHI left - just left behind.

But having JHI stalk a sister who is not his sister was creepy, especially since he looked like he would have dropped in on her had Lois not called.

The whole loser town against the Cushings thing was hella annoying, but obviously they had to give them something to do. And now they're all happy-happy-joy-joy as a family, all but guaranteeing something really bad is coming their way. Since we know they can't kill off Lana or the kids, Kyle could very well be dead man walking. Though I did wonder if the little girl had maybe been taken over and we just don't know that yet. The family reunion was a little too sweet, a little too perfect. It's probably not that, but in any good horror movie, the little sister totally would be possessed.

And I think the Kents own family reunion at the end would have had more punch and meaning if Clark had been gone for more than barely 24 hours, if that.

Three more episodes this season, so obviously the Edge storyline isn't over - and he's obviously also not Edge anymore. Is he Zod now, or someone else who has yet to be introduced? Someone bigger and badder than Zod? If Supes/Zod is still out there somewhere, then it does make more sense that Edge is someone else who will team up with Supes/Zod once that Supes finally materializes. That would give Tyler a lot more opportunity to play good and bad Supes as two different characters.

And I'm sure it's not going to happen this season, but for the love of Zod, they have to give Jonathan Kent something to do that justifies his existence. Perpetual cheerleader with no friends or special skills of any kind is a passive sideline position to be in, and ultimately a thankless one the longer that's all this kid is allowed to be about. Hopefully they have something more in mind for him than playing Jordan's prop. If not, what was the point of giving the Kents twins? They could have just gone with the one special kid and left it at that.

No, they haven't done as much as they could have with Jordan's powers so far, but there's no fear they won't be focusing on them a lot more in the near future. Which naturally leaves his brother out of the equation when Jordan works more and more with dad on those powers. Pretty soon Jordan won't even need Jon as a prop. When that happens, Jon has to have a more active role that's his own.

Superman needs to go back to Edge's skeevy lair and eliminate gross holo-daddy once and for all. That should be thing #1 on the to do list after dinner.

Edited July 16, 2021 by PAForrest

[scarynikki12]

25 minutes ago, tvwatchergordis said:

Which makes me wonder if his Kal-El didn't have a family. We know that version didn't have Lois but he could have married someone else. I doubt it though because like our Clark I think he would have fought the eradication for those he loved. Or something else happened to that Earth's Kal-El which nothing could bring him back anymore?

Given the family theme I think Irons' Superman didn't have a family and it was as simple as that. He had no one who could break through and help him find that last bit of strength to throw off the eradication. Let's assume that Earth Prime and Irons' Earth followed similar trajectories where Superman is concerned. Both land in Smallville as babies, both become Clark Kent, both lose Jonathan Kent as teenagers, and both grow up to be Superman. The difference is Lois Lane. Earth Prime Clark met Lois while Earth Whatever Irons did. EP Clark and Lois fall in love, marry, and have babies while EW Lois did all that with Irons. Assuming EW Lana ends up with EW Kyle and EW Martha died pre-eradication like we saw with the Earth Prime versions that leaves EW Clark with no one. He can find some fulfillment as Superman but has no emotional connection to anyone and is left vulnerable when Edge makes his move. I can see Edge laying the Kryptonian connection on thick and the yearning for family being what gets him to agree to submit. 

[tvwatchergordis]

8 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Given the family theme I think Irons' Superman didn't have a family and it was as simple as that. He had no one who could break through and help him find that last bit of strength to throw off the eradication. Let's assume that Earth Prime and Irons' Earth followed similar trajectories where Superman is concerned. Both land in Smallville as babies, both become Clark Kent, both lose Jonathan Kent as teenagers, and both grow up to be Superman. The difference is Lois Lane. Earth Prime Clark met Lois while Earth Whatever Irons did. EP Clark and Lois fall in love, marry, and have babies while EW Lois did all that with Irons. Assuming EW Lana ends up with EW Kyle and EW Martha died pre-eradication like we saw with the Earth Prime versions that leaves EW Clark with no one. He can find some fulfillment as Superman but has no emotional connection to anyone and is left vulnerable when Edge makes his move. I can see Edge laying the Kryptonian connection on thick and the yearning for family being what gets him to agree to submit. 

Yes. That's why I think that EW Clark had no one. So(like you said) when Edge served up the family connection he took it. EW's Clark wasn't alone anyore. Again proving that Lois Lane will always be the key to his soul. Some people don't like it but she's so intertwined with Clark and his heroism that it can't be any other way.

[anamika]

15 hours ago, Diapason Untuned said:

You can't counter emotion with reason. These people are angry and scared, of course they're going to gravitate to blaming the nearest person that they can and that's Kyle and Lana. It doesn't matter what they say to defend themselves. Maybe once people calm down they'll change their minds.

It's bad writing for the show's only Asian characters and family. They are never given any agency and often written as emotional and irrational. Starting with Tag who bullies Jordan, gets powers, blames and attacks Jordan for it and is carted off somewhere. Then Emily who is basically a pawn, gets manipulated by Edge and then blames Kyle. And then her husband yelling at Kyle in front of everyone.  It's a plot that makes no sense and portrays these characters as emotional, irrational, angry. And hey here's the very reasonable Lois Lane come to tell the Cushings that they are not to blame after the Asian family yelled at them and left.

Keeping in mind that a black staff writer in this show was fired for pointing out the sexism and racism in the writing and still not being compensated for the work she did and that they made several changes after she pointed out that there should be black characters in the show who are not villains.

So that's my point. Give these characters agency and let them own their choices. Kyle is a known alcoholic. I don't even know how he is still a firefighter. But the idea that these townspeople trusted his judgement so much, that they got their brains altered because he vouched for Edge is so ludicrous. It's was a plot point injected in there so that the Cushings would have something to do and lead to an equally silly scene of them dancing around and washing the paint off while everyone else was worried that Superman was going to kill them all.

Edited July 16, 2021 by anamika

[Affogato]

On 7/14/2021 at 8:01 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

 

The notion of not killing Edge becomes that more ridiculous when there was all the debate about killing Superman with his proven track record of goodness. Edge is physically as powerful as Superman (or just about), and there is no good side to potentially reach, no reasoning or bargaining with him, and he has shown the ability to transform ordinary people into Kryptonians and to brainwash at least one of the two existing Kryptonians on Earth. If that isn't a must-kill threat, one does not exist. 

I do wonder if the show will address the notion that billionaire Morgan Edge has now been revealed to be a genocidal Kryptonian. 

They think they can imprison him and so buy time to talk to him. And Superman is about believing in the good in people. Redemption.  Yeah it will bite them in the ass. But it will become really stupid to keep him alive after he escapes for the first time and causes a swath of destruction. 
 

our billionaires are different. 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Affogato

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

They think they can imprison him and so buy time to talk to him. And Superman is about believing in the good in people. Redemption.  Yeah it will bite them in the ass. But it will become really stupid to keep him alive after he escapes for the first time and causes a swath of destruction. 
 

our billionaires are different. 

I get that Superman is about believing in the good of people. But he isn't the one (presumably) calling the shots. Sam Lane is. The guy who was perfectly open to killing Superman because of the threat level he represented. It doesn't really make sense for him to be like "Well, Superman represents such a threat that we have to develop an anti-Superman arsenal and we shouldn't really spend much time considering the possibility of restoring him to the side of good. But Morgan Edge who has not shown one ounce of humanity and who has proven to be a threat, we should keep his ass alive. Because Superman thinks he can be redeemed."

[Affogato]

1 minute ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I get that Superman is about believing in the good of people. But he isn't the one (presumably) calling the shots. Sam Lane is. The guy who was perfectly open to killing Superman because of the threat level he represented. It doesn't really make sense for him to be like "Well, Superman represents such a threat that we have to develop an anti-Superman arsenal and we shouldn't really spend much time considering the possibility of restoring him to the side of good. But Morgan Edge who has not shown one ounce of humanity and who has proven to be a threat, we should keep his ass alive. Because Superman thinks he can be redeemed."

Yah but sam was all out to kill Clark and was proven wrong. He’s made an adjustment for now. Reconnected with Lois. Why blow it right away?

And imprisonment. Unbreakable prison thing. Whoo.
 

Also edge is himself a potential goldmine of information and techology. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 hours ago, Affogato said:

Yah but sam was all out to kill Clark and was proven wrong. He’s made an adjustment for now. Reconnected with Lois. Why blow it right away?

And imprisonment. Unbreakable prison thing. Whoo.
 

Also edge is himself a potential goldmine of information and techology. 

Sam was proven wrong about Clark because Clark is good at his core. Whereas there is no reason to trust Morgan or to suspect that he does have a better nature to appeal to. Even if you think that the prison is unbreakable and that you could possibly persuade Morgan to give up his secrets willingly, it seems you're better off learning them on your own with him dead.

[Chicago Redshirt]

9 hours ago, anamika said:

It's bad writing for the show's only Asian characters and family. They are never given any agency and often written as emotional and irrational. Starting with Tag who bullies Jordan, gets powers, blames and attacks Jordan for it and is carted off somewhere. Then Emily who is basically a pawn, gets manipulated by Edge and then blames Kyle. And then her husband yelling at Kyle in front of everyone.  It's a plot that makes no sense and portrays these characters as emotional, irrational, angry. And hey here's the very reasonable Lois Lane come to tell the Cushings that they are not to blame after the Asian family yelled at them and left.

Keeping in mind that a black staff writer in this show was fired for pointing out the sexism and racism in the writing and still not being compensated for the work she did and that they made several changes after she pointed out that there should be black characters in the show who are not villains.

So that's my point. Give these characters agency and let them own their choices. Kyle is a known alcoholic. I don't even know how he is still a firefighter. But the idea that these townspeople trusted his judgement so much, that they got their brains altered because he vouched for Edge is so ludicrous. It's was a plot point injected in there so that the Cushings would have something to do and lead to an equally silly scene of them dancing around and washing the paint off while everyone else was worried that Superman was going to kill them all.

I think with the information that "Captain Luthor" is really John Henry Irons, it was probably a bit of a false flag that the writing for the show pigeonholed people of color as villains. I assume that at the time the writer was let go, she probably had to have some idea that there was more to "Captain Luthor," and that he would ultimately be a good guy. But maybe not. Or maybe one of the pivots that was made was to turn "Captain Luthor" to a good guy.

Anyway, I don't know if Kyle's alcoholism is known beyond his family. He isn't just a firefighter. He's the fire chief.

I don't think there's any reasonable dispute that Kyle was a vocal supporter of Edge and helped him get a foothold on the town. Does that diminish that the Smallville residents still entered freely of their own will into Edge's machine? No. But it's only human to look at scapegoats for that sort of thing. 

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Sam was proven wrong about Clark because Clark is good at his core. Whereas there is no reason to trust Morgan or to suspect that he does have a better nature to appeal to. Even if you think that the prison is unbreakable and that you could possibly persuade Morgan to give up his secrets willingly, it seems you're better off learning them on your own with him dead.

Well yes. But Sam Lane may not think he is in a tv show.