S06.E21: Reunion Part 1

[MatildaMoody]

 

Was the fact that Lu and the Count supposedly had an open marriage ever part of the show?

 

Funny you should ask, because it was and it was because of Ramona and Jill that it was ever put out there on the show during the season. For some reason, that season was the one where Jill felt perfectly happy putting people on speaker phone without telling them that Luann was in the room.

 

Now, it's common place to assume you will be on speaker phone when you call someone who may be filming, but during the filming of that particular season, it wasn't as common.

 

It was during the first episode of that season that Jill called Ramona to say that she and Luann would not be coming to Ramona's Hampton outing. She said that Luann was very hurt by Mario calling her the Countless, because of the divorce. Jill did not tell Ramona that she was on speaker, or that Luann was present. So, Ramona said something to the affect of not knowing why Luann was making such a big deal about it as everyone knew that She and the Count had an open marriage and continued to ramble on about Bethenny possibly bringing Jason to her party. Jill and Luann had an awkward moment and Jill hurriedly finished the conversation and hung up.

It wasn't mentioned again during the season, but it was definitely brought up on the show prior to the reunion. 

[ZaldamoWilder]

Oh, I have no doubt that after she says "I want it shut down", she will get her way. No doubt whatsoever. Sadly. Because even if the situation is really sad, even if no one should have to go through that sort of storm privately or publicly, it's Ramona. I didn't hope for that to happen to her but now that it has, I want her to have her nose put into her shit really, really, really badly. Not rub the scandal in her face, she suffered enough about that but to point out her hypocrisy.

 

I hope someone* stoops to the level of crap she displayed through the years with her castmates for her to feel every ounce of humilation she imposed on the other women. I want it to sting. I want her to choke on the halo she puts on her head when she's throwing shade at the other women's marriages, evoking without any remorse, events happening behind the scenes. Even if every bit of the things she said was true, I want Ramona to feel how it is to be exposed to somebody like her pointing everything you do wrong. We will see if she thinks being an unfiltered so-called-truth teller is such a quality in life after all. 

 

*too bad it won't be Aviva because Ramona being her only ally. She's the kind to stoop to any level and I couldn't think less about her if she does. Part of me hopes that the other women are too classy to do that. But the part of me wanting they'll do it speaks loudly at this time.

 

for coming up with this and for doing so at 5:30 in the morning eastern standard, please accept my hardest tackle hug and 1/2 of my peanut butter and jelly sandwich.  (it's welch's grape)

 

 

I've watched every episode and I don't believe Ramona deserves what you suggest . True, she has no filter or social graces but, I don't think she means to be mean.

 

::BrickHeckwhisper::  neither did Mussolini. 

[imjagain]

Funny you should ask, because it was and it was because of Ramona and Jill that it was ever put out there on the show during the season. For some reason, that season was the one where Jill felt perfectly happy putting people on speaker phone without telling them that Luann was in the room.

Now, it's common place to assume you will be on speaker phone when you call someone who may be filming, but during the filming of that particular season, it wasn't as common.

It was during the first episode of that season that Jill called Ramona to say that she and Luann would not be coming to Ramona's Hampton outing. She said that Luann was very hurt by Mario calling her the Countless, because of the divorce. Jill did not tell Ramona that she was on speaker, or that Luann was present. So, Ramona said something to the affect of not knowing why Luann was making such a big deal about it as everyone knew that She and the Count had an open marriage and continued to ramble on about Bethenny possibly bringing Jason to her party. Jill and Luann had an awkward moment and Jill hurriedly finished the conversation and hung up.

It wasn't mentioned again during the season, but it was definitely brought up on the show prior to the reunion.

This is what I don't understand? Ramona knew they were filming, it wasn't the first season. So these women knew the game some what. Why say it while being filmed, if you don't want it out there. I know Jill got a lot of shit for putting Ramona on speaker phone, but are we now to believe that Ramona thought they were filming her and Jill on the phone and only getting Jill's side of conversation? It makes no sense.

Another thing that I don't get is why anyone (Mario & Ramona) cared that Lu had an open marriage, how did it affect them?

So Lu had a marriage that most would not want and the Count finally decided to move on, why rub it in her face? Except to humiliate Lu.

So, I guess that is why I can see Lu want to go there with Ramona.

I almost forgot the "countless" comment from Mario. I remember now, how much joy both he and Ramona got from that comment.

Edited July 31, 2014 by imjagain

[BusyOctober]

So I just read Sonja's blog on BravoTV...I don't know if I can snark on the poor thing any longer.  We've tossed around words like Delusional, Grey Gardens, etc, but she is truly off the rails.  She has created a fantasy world and she needs professional help. 

[Neurochick]

So I just read Sonja's blog on BravoTV...I don't know if I can snark on the poor thing any longer.  We've tossed around words like Delusional, Grey Gardens, etc, but she is truly off the rails.  She has created a fantasy world and she needs professional help. 

 

I have to disagree with part of this post.  I think she has created a fantasy world but she knows it's fantasy.  She just doesn't want to deal with reality and she's fully aware that she's not dealing with reality.  A person like that won't benefit from professional help because they refused to admit they need it; and if someone thinks they're okay, they don't need help and you're just jealous of them, not much you can do about it.

[comatoast]

I'm looking forward to Ramona getting some comeuppance in the next two segments of the reunion. She's become so full of herself over the years and it is reflected in her attitude towards someone like Kristin. Ramona really fancies herself The Grand Dame of RHONY at this point. It seems that her fundamental problem with Kristin as "the new girl" is that Kristin didn't bow down and kiss Ramona's ring/ass. Now, Kristin has her own irritating qualities, but Ramona didn't seem to latch on anything specific, rather "who does this woman think she is/doesn't she know who I am?" Seriously lady. You're on a reality show.

Not to defend Ramona's behavior towards her in any way, but I watched the first couple of episodes from this season again, and I noticed that Ramona was friendly with Kristin at first. I wonder if Aviva told Ramona that Kristin had made a joke about her eyes and that is what made her turn on Kristin.

[MatildaMoody]

 

This is what I don't understand? Ramona knew they were filming, it wasn't the first season. So these women knew the game some what. Why say it while being filmed, if you don't want it out there. I know Jill got a lot of shit for putting Ramona on speaker phone, but are we now to believe that Ramona thought they were filming her and Jill on the phone and only getting Jill's side of conversation? It makes no sense.

 

That's just it, I'm not sure if Ramona was actually being filmed at the time of the phone call. That part was always confusing to me. Especially during the Bethenny/Jill phone call that happened later.

 

Jill said that she knew she was being filmed, but production didn't tell her that Bethenny was, which was why she justified putting her on speaker in the first place - she wanted the conversation to be on film and that was why she put it on speaker.

 

She blamed the producers for making Bethenny look like the victim, because Jill wasn't aware that Bethenny was being filmed crying during the phone call. She never did give a good explanation for why she lied about who else was in the room though.

 

ETA: So, if Jill is telling the truth that she believed she was the only one being filmed - hence the speaker phone, then it would stand to reason that Ramona may not have actually been filmed while talking to Jill, which is why Jill put Ramona on speaker phone. Since there was no footage of Ramona's side of the conversation, and only what we heard her say on speaker, it gets really confusing trying to figure out if both were being filmed or if just Jill and Luann. Seems production played Jill no matter which way it turned out.

Edited July 31, 2014 by MatildaMoody

[zoeysmom]

Not to defend Ramona's behavior towards her in any way, but I watched the first couple of episodes from this season again, and I noticed that Ramona was friendly with Kristin at first. I wonder if Aviva told Ramona that Kristin had made a joke about her eyes and that is what made her turn on Kristin.

I think Kristen went after Ramona from the beginning. She went to Sonja for tea and called Ramona and Sonja "her two drunken aunts" and complained about them not dwelling on her.  Kristen acted as if the worst thing that ever happened in the history of man was Ramona not showing up to Heather's anniversary party.  She then accepted an invitation at Ramona's and went and chewed Ramona out for not attending, Heather's anniversary party. Next up was calling Ramona jealous of Sonja over the 23 year old boyfriend.  So I never really saw Kristen be anything but down on Ramona and attempting to get a reaction out of her.  Right before Kristen began splashing Ramona, and poor Kristen was nearly mortally wounded with the wine glass, she made some smart ass crack about Ramona having 20 years to help Sonja.

 

Kristen knew the formula-surround yourself with the popular ladies and take digs at the more polarizing ladies.  There are times I swear, it seems like Kristen's line producer if off to the side giving her signals.

Edited July 31, 2014 by zoeysmom

[ryebread]

*too bad it won't be Aviva because Ramona being her only ally. She's the kind to stoop to any level and I couldn't think less about her if she does. Part of me hopes that the other women are too classy to do that. But the part of me wanting they'll do it speaks loudly at this time.

I don't think it will be Carole or Heather, either. I must say Heather has impressed me with her restraint at the reunion so far.  Whether it's because they're too classy as you said, or because Heather knows the game now and she's shared the secret with Carole. And, imo, Carole will march when Heather says to march.  Heather has, so far, sat in her conservative, pink, Mrs. Cleaver dress (loved it) and remained relatively calm.  She may be a lot of things, but I don't think she's stupid.  I think she realizes, via viewer comments, that there are some of us out here who think it's bad form to completely lose their shit on each other. 

 

Heather's got a business to run, geared toward women - her motto is something about building them up and making them feel good about themselves.  I think she's read some negative reviews on her performance this season and perhaps will straddle the fence and let Kristen and Luann do the dirty work on taking Ramona, Sonja and Aviva to task at the reunion.  She'll get in the digs but I think we'll see a calmer, gentler Heather.  Nary a motherfucker or a flared nostril.

 

She's shown that she's on this show to primarily promote her business.  There are the women who will buy her stuff because they love that she will pounce on the others that we love to hate - Aviva, Ramona, Sonja, Kristen.  But there are some who will be turned off by that.  Does she care?  I don't know.  We'll see if her behavior changes.  If it does, it indicates to me that she realized she could be losing a part of her market share which is the opposite effect of what she set out to accomplish when she signed her contract.

 

Tippy canoe for her because she also knows that Bravo expects her to bring the drama. 

[Baltimore Betty]

I quickly read Sonja's blog which lead me to Google "Most Charitable Yacht, " I did not see anything in my search to say that that is an actual thing.

[ScoobieDoobs]

it seems like Kristen's line producer if off to the side giving her signals.

 

I would love to see them film, just to see how fake this shit really is.  Here's what Veevs' producer said -- "OK, Aviva, throw that leg NOW.  It doesn't matter that Heather's line doesn't synch with what you're saying, just throw the leg, we need the ratings bad."

 

Yeah, keep saying this crap is real, Andy.  I'm waiting for Tamra to reveal more bullshit stuff on OC.  Would Veevs reveal stuff if she gets fired?  I don't think so.  She doesn't seem angry at the producers.  Aw, too bad.

[shoegal]

I quickly read Sonja's blog which lead me to Google "Most Charitable Yacht, " I did not see anything in my search to say that that is an actual thing.

 

Ha, I read it that way too, and I was like "wah??"....but then I reread it.  It says Most Chartable Yacht.  I guess that means the yacht you would most want to charter?

 

Who knows, that blog is a trip to crazytown. 

[Midnight Cheese]

Sonja's blog is a fake-assed mess, much like Sonja.

 

For what it's worth, Crazy-Eyes Singer has, literally, 20 years on Kristen.  More than enough time for Ramona to get over using her past as a ridiculous fucking excuse, to quit being manipulative and abusive, and to get over herself and her enormous ego.  She thinks she's an OG and therefore needs her lasered tuchus kissed all of the time, but not everyone's going to play that game.  For what it's worth, I also see Ramonja as being fundamentally unable to handle their drink in different ways.  Always tippling.  Having fits when wine is not available.  Crotch-out 'flirtations.'  "Crazy drunken aunts" -- not far from descriptive reality.

 

If you don't want to be seen as a nasty fucking nutcase who chooses to behave like a 7 year old with an elbow problem instead of a 57-year old success at life, don't act like it! 

Edited July 31, 2014 by Midnight Cheese

[jelliebean]

I hate the term "girl's girl". Aviva uses it often,yet she is constantly saying nasty things about the other women's ages. Anyone remember last year when Reid called the women "overweight old ladies gone wild"? There seems to be some ageism going on with these two. 

Aviva is also a master at ad hominem attacks.  When she can't fight on principle she uses unrelated fallacies.

[ryebread]

I hate that term, too.  But Aviva's not the only one who has made cracks about their elders' ages.  I think all of them have, with the exception of Ramona and Luann.  Them being the oldest, that kind of makes sense. 

 

None of them are a 'girl's girl'. 

[aradia22]

 

I hate the term "girl's girl".

They all say it and then say awful things about each other. It is so aggravating.

[ButterQueen]

If I was Fran Drescher, I would change my name after Aviva crapped all over the show this year. I am 55, and she looks older than me.

It seems that Heather, Carole and Kristen are genuine friends, and I like seeing that.

Ramona cannot be publicly embarrassed enough for me. Luann is right -- karma baby!

I tend to speak differently with friends than in business/formal settings, so I don't see any problem with the way Heather talks. Sounds natural to me and endearing. Loved when she told Ramona "you gotta carry it (the canoe) momma." I'd love to be her friend.

[ScoobieDoobs]

If I was Fran Drescher, I would change my name after Aviva crapped all over the show this year. I am 55, and she looks older than me.

 

I think it's the hair color.  Makes her look like a 300 year old hag/witch.  No wonder all the age cracks from her.  They really should be directed at herself.

[motorcitymom65]

I hate that term, too.  But Aviva's not the only one who has made cracks about their elders' ages.  I think all of them have, with the exception of Ramona and Luann.  Them being the oldest, that kind of makes sense. 

 

None of them are a 'girl's girl'.

I think they all say it and I hate it as well, but I also get what they are saying. I cannot recall Lu saying it, but Ramona said it about Lu when Sonja was telling them about the whole Harry deal. Ramona was explaining to Kristen that Lu is not the kind of gal you can trust because she is not a "girls girl".

I don't think that Carole or Heather will really go after Ramona in any major way simply because they do like her. They think she is nuts, and will call her out, but at the end of the day I think they both care about her. Carole especially cares about Ramona. Carole wrote quite movingly in her first blog this year about how her relationship with Ramona grew over their break. She said she got to know her and meet her friends, and that she understood her better. She was supportive of Ramona for most of the season. She was the one to check on her when she was packing, the one walking with her in the woods, the one who took her to the airport. She was at the intervention, but hardly participated. I think they have an actual bond, and since Heather wasn't at the same place with Ramona, it is clear to me that Heather doesn't "make" Carole do anything. If she did, Carole wouldn't have become closer to Ramona while Heather continued to keep Ramona at arms length. I don't think, however, that either one of them love Ramona as they do Lu. Their loyalty will ultimately lie with Lu and they will make it clear they are on her side.

[Baltimore Betty]

Ha, I read it that way too, and I was like "wah??"....but then I reread it.  It says Most Chartable Yacht.  I guess that means the yacht you would most want to charter?

 

Who knows, that blog is a trip to crazytown. 

Oooh, well that's different! Never mind.

 

And no Google search turns up for "Most Chartable" either!

Edited July 31, 2014 by Baltimore Betty

[heebiejeebie]

 

I almost forgot the "countless" comment from Mario. I remember now, how much joy both he and Ramona got from that comment.

 

 

And I remember now how much joy I got from that comment as well.  Luann I still loathe.  Sure I'm not sorry to see her go after the rest as they are also loathsome.  But for me she will always be the still overly pretentious stick up her ass phony who couldn't be bothered to google even the slightest bit of true manners or matters concerning aristocracy let alone her own married-into family's not that far in the past history.  Even in regards to Sonja at the lodge, her ridiculous over the top fury that anyone dared mention her name was risible. 

 

For me she is the lazy ill tempered dog down the street.  Sure I laugh when it chases away the toy poodle across the way that takes shits all over our private park (paralleling Ramona), I'm glad to see the smelly farting beast scare the crap out of the three ladies who think walking on a Sunday morning means talking loudly to each other because the fools won't take their earphones off (Sonja).  But in the end it is also the dog that barks all hours at nothing.  It also shits in the park and it has tried to get in my fenced yard after my own dogs that try to ignore it and has nipped its own owner enough times to suggest it will bite someone sometime before it finally dies.

 

I guess I'm trying to say that while Luann might be putting off all kinds of sparks at the reunion, I still and howling with delight every time someone mentions her purported pay cut.  I'd love it if her checks got cut in half.  And I hope she still has to sit by the phone until the last possible moment to find out if she gets asked back for another season.  I certainly won't shed a tear if I never hear her braying caustic voice again. 

 

Same can be said for all of them.  Keep the caustic and substitute the descriptive of your choice for the others;  shrill, barking, sneering, whining, vapid are among those that will be accepted. 

[comatoast]

I think Kristen went after Ramona from the beginning. She went to Sonja for tea and called Ramona and Sonja "her two drunken aunts" and complained about them not dwelling on her.  Kristen acted as if the worst thing that ever happened in the history of man was Ramona not showing up to Heather's anniversary party.  She then accepted an invitation at Ramona's and went and chewed Ramona out for not attending, Heather's anniversary party. Next up was calling Ramona jealous of Sonja over the 23 year old boyfriend.  So I never really saw Kristen be anything but down on Ramona and attempting to get a reaction out of her.  Right before Kristen began splashing Ramona, and poor Kristen was nearly mortally wounded with the wine glass, she made some smart ass crack about Ramona having 20 years to help Sonja.

 

Kristen knew the formula-surround yourself with the popular ladies and take digs at the more polarizing ladies.  There are times I swear, it seems like Kristen's line producer if off to the side giving her signals.

I remember Kristin whined to Carol about how Ramona had it in for her from the start, but if the timeline we saw was accurate, that catty joke about Ramona's eyes shows she was being bitchy about Ramona before anything happened between them.  Kristin definitely knew what she was doing and played the game from the get-go.  Of course, then Ramona had to totally lose her shit and give Kristin more O-face whiny time.  Ramona lost me with the glass-throwing, but also for giving Kristin more reasons to whip out the O-face.

Edited July 31, 2014 by comatoast

[Mrs peel]

I don't blame her for letting it all fly, although I did think her butting in to point out that the Beales (Grey Gardens) were mentally ill went a bit too far.

Now I thought that was the best comment Luann made; because Sonja feeling complimented by the comparison was nuts!  I finally watched the documentary and was appalled by how they lived.  I can only imagine how it smelled.  And that could in fact be Sonja’s future, talking about her former loves and the parties and when father took to her to Europe…..all the while opening cans to heat up on a single burner in mother’s bedroom. 

 

And every comment Sonja made during part 1 was nuts (and because they film for so many hours, who knows when in “real time” the Grey Gardens comparison made.  It could well have been near the end after even more delusional Sonja comments).  During her explanation of how she has to manage the work of her “Harvard and Yale” attorneys (oh and Sonja, last time I checked “Fordham Law” is not Harvard OR Yale, but that’s where one of your bankruptcy lawyers went.  Not a criticism of Fordham but of Sonja’s need to act like she only has the “best” of everything) and “her” trustee and “her” Judge….I was trying to imagine actually having to act as Sonja’s attorney.  It was not a pretty picture. 

 

I can understand that Sonja wants to pretend “she” made the decision to sell the house in France, as opposed to it being forced by the bankruptcy trustee.  But claiming to have been a model and buying and selling multiple properties from the time she was a teenager?  Nope, not buying it.  Luanne in particular looked genuinely confused about the model claim, and that is a topic Sonja definitely would have brought up to her before now.  I really wonder if Sonja ever bought a property on her own; I know she made some claim about the building near where she had the doggie funeral, but the other 3 properties were bought by her husband. 

 

Sonja can also talk to all the psychics she wants, and light a ton of abundance candles, but ignoring her problems won’t solve them.  I think she actually has a pretty good income – now – due to RW and child support.  But when they are over, so is the gravy train.  And her relying on the psychics and abundance candles may relate to new age stuff (and I totally see Sonja latching on to that), but doing that to the exclusion of taking active steps to get a real income does seem like a sign of mental illness.

 

On Carole and her ex.  I see a major difference between saying they don’t live in the same city and won’t be exclusive when apart and a real “open” relationship – where even when you are together you are free to pick up someone else on a typical Wednesday. 

 

Ramona's family life is a fundamental part of her storylines. It's fair game to ask about the state of it when its crumble was so public. She has the right to tell them to fuck off which makes her, IMO, a hypocrite.

If she's intelligent, she just says "it's been hard, thank you very much for your concern Andy, thank you very much for your support everyone, we are working on it. For that reason, I would like you to respect my family wishes and not further comment on that issue but again, thank you for enquiring about us" with a big sad smile. The big sad smile is important for the empathy factor.

I’m shocked Ramona didn’t seem to expect the question and have an answer like this prepared.

To me it doesn't matter what Ramona's intention is - she says hurtful shit and then gets mad when other people say hurtful shit back. And her reasoning that she doesn't have a filter so she can't be held responsible is BS.

Right, that only works so long.  Continuing to say hateful things and then always say “oops” and some version of a non-apology apology doesn’t work, people get sick of it.  And while Ramona may forgive easily (and I personally question whether that’s really true), others who have been repeatedly on the wrong side of her bad behavior have no obligation to do so.  She’s in her mid/late 50’s, it’s time to become an actual adult.

 

Still love Luann, but that dress (her blog says she “designed” it) and earrings were horrible.  Ramona’s dress was a nice surprise.  Others have said enough about the pink and black lace monstrosity Sonja wore.  Carole’s look was terrible in its own way, that dress was so short she struggled to stand up without treating us to her ob-gyn’s view.  Never mind the hair and WHAT THE HECK DID SHE DO TO HER FACE?  Yikes, people mentioned she messed up her face, but I didn’t realize how much.   Kristin’s hair was nice and I liked Heather’s dress.  I refuse to discuss the other one.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Mrs peel

[ryebread]

I don't think that Carole or Heather will really go after Ramona in any major way simply because they do like her. They think she is nuts, and will call her out, but at the end of the day I think they both care about her. Carole especially cares about Ramona. Carole wrote quite movingly in her first blog this year about how her relationship with Ramona grew over their break.

But Carole's first blog was written before Ramona made disparaging remarks about Jonathon*.  I don't see a strong relationship between Heather and Ramona anymore, therefore I think the relationship between Carole and Ramona is probably now in the dumper.

It seems Heather would expect (demand) the same loyalty from Carole when Jon was dissed as Heather showed to Carole when Carole's career was questioned.

 

*or was it. LOL.  I'm so confused by the timeline of when the show was filmed and when the blogs are written - what happened when and who is writing in real time or not.

[ScoobieDoobs]

I refuse to discuss the other one.

 

Good.  Maybe the hag & her disgusting father will finally now slink away never to be seen again.

[Nanny pants]

You see, as a "Lifestyle Branding Consultant", or whatever the fuck she says she is, Sonja will have only the very best, top-notch lawyers, judges and trustees for her bankruptcy reorganization. Anything less just wouldn't do.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Just curious -- anyone think Lu is maybe being a bit too hard on Sonja?

 

Sure, her bullshit is annoying & she's a con artist.  But Lu is being kinda shrill & I could see sympathy going out for Sonja from viewers who don't know the deets on how she conned that film company & why she has the huge judgement against her.

Edited July 31, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[MatildaMoody]

Just curious -- anyone think Lu is maybe being a bit too hard on Sonja?

I don't think she is. I think that Lu gave Sonja a lot of support through the season and none of it was returned. Sonja came down on Luann every chance she could and even admitted that it was out of jealousy because Luann was still doing well after her divorce.

 

I think Luann would have been fine taking it on the chin from Sonja if Sonja had just supported Luann. And, as much as Luann was upset about the Facialist thing, I think what really upset her was Sonja's reaction to Luann's break up. And, Sonja trying to make it appear as though Luann slept with Harry.

 

Encouraging that story line when she knew it wasn't true, had to be Luann's breaking point with Sonja and now Luann has had the opportunity view just how horrible some of the things Sonja has said about her during the course of the season were.

[kassa]

I didn't see what was to be gained by Kristen insisting the whole cast would say to Sonja's face she is delusional.  Who feels better after such an declaration? 

 

 

I think if she were merely delusional, sharpie-ing her bags and returning dresses after wearing them and filming in the one room of her home where the wallpaper isn't peeling, sharing anecdotes about how much the Churchills love her toaster oven snacks, etc., but otherwise being a pleasure to be around, nobody would poke her for being delusional.

 

But cracks like "you used to WORK for P Diddy - P Diddy comes on MY YACHT!" are designed to put people in their place.  A place beneath HER.  I don't think they owe her the kindness of supporting her delusion when she's using it to club them over the head with her superiority.    That's certainly where I would draw the line.  

 

I don't feel sorry for Sonja at all.  I don't even think she's mentally ill.  I think her pride is getting to her.  Sonja knows the truth, that she's no longer young and cute, but she refuses to accept it, because accepting it would mean that she has to do something with her life.  It's much easier for her to play "Lady Morgan" and lord over her interns than for her to face facts.

 

 

I think it borders on mental illness to not reconcile the objective reality seen by others with your fronting.  Most of Atlanta and Jersey and a few on Beverly Hills have tried pretending they are way more financially secure than they are.  No doubt they've had a lot of practice in their real lives pre-show, just by carrying the right bag and leasing the right car.  That's basically the target demographic for most of these franchises - delusionally aspirational fame whores. 

 

Sonja's gone way beyond that, however.  Witness the discussion with Ramona about "i could be a comedian!  I could be a broadway star!"  And the discussions with Reid and Harry about the damn Nigerian soccer team/perfume/French shirt/housewares collection. If she doesn't know she's coming off as a lunatic, that's a dissociation from reality.  

 

She could have been the somewhat kooky but mentally together person from her first season, thrown herself on Ramona and Aviva and LuAnn's mercy to fix her up with guys, and possibly parlayed it into something positive, romantically,or at least image-wise.  Instead, she's icing her face in bidets and flashing her sagging butt at dinner parties and propositioning every guy under 25 she runs into, despite their obvious discomfort...

 

Say what you will about Aviva -- when her plan to have Dad save her apple tanked because he was universally condemned as a creepazoid, she dealt with that reality.  Maybe not well, but she didn't deny it.  

 

I kind of felt awkward with the grey gardens thing with Carole there - that was her mother in law's aunt and cousin.  A little close to home.  I'm kind of surprised Aviva and Sonja didn't go there.   

[jonesingjay]

Just curious -- anyone think Lu is maybe being a bit too hard on Sonja?

 

No.

[jelliebean]

I kind of felt awkward with the grey gardens thing with Carole there - that was her mother in law's aunt and cousin.  A little close to home.  I'm kind of surprised Aviva and Sonja didn't go there.   

 I felt the same. The camera cut to Carole as Sonja was talking about how charming and talented the two women were. Carole looked confused. The women were living in squalor and there was nothing charming about their inability to realize it. It was heartbreaking.

[zoeysmom]

Just curious -- anyone think Lu is maybe being a bit too hard on Sonja?

 

Sure, her bullshit is annoying & she's a con artist.  But Lu is being kinda shrill & I could see sympathy going out for Sonja from viewers who don't know the deets on how she conned that film company & why she has the huge judgement against her.

Here is the deal with the Sonja judgment - she admits to it and recognizes she has to pay it back and is being made to pay it back.

 

Yes I do think LuAnn comes off as being harsh with Sonja because Sonja has been a season full of one liners for LuAnn.  LuAnn had the whole package run with comment after comment and then has the nerve to say Sonja isn't a good friend. Whatever happened in between filming between the two of them Sonja took it hard.  (I am guessing it had to do with holding out for more money from Shed Media/Bravo.)  Now we have LuAnn exclaiming karma over Mario cheating on Ramona.  Bad taste on LuAnn's part and manners is what she trades on.  Anyway after a good TV Reunion the ratings sucked.  http://bravoratings.com/2014/03/12/real-housewives-of-new-york-city-season-6-ratings/

 

Here is the deal with Sonja-her flights of fantasy do not hurt anyone.  The one entity she did hurt is being compensated legally and painfully by Sonja.  No one cares if her ex-husband yacht was named best charter because it affects almost no one.

[ryebread]

Luann showed some uncharacteristic insecurity when she was talking to Sonja about how she knew Sonja cared for Ramona more than her.  It just seemed so...un-Luann-like.  Or something.  "You like her more than me." 

 

I don't know if she's being too hard on Sonja. AFAIK, Sonja did something to Luann to deserve it.  But Lu sure acts like she's got an ax to grind with her outburst equating Sonja with mental illness.  I thought that was hard and unbecoming a Countess. ETA:  Or anyone.

Edited July 31, 2014 by ryebread

[ghoulina]

But cracks like "you used to WORK for P Diddy - P Diddy comes on MY YACHT!" are designed to put people in their place.  A place beneath HER.  I don't think they owe her the kindness of supporting her delusion when she's using it to club them over the head with her superiority.    That's certainly where I would draw the line.

 

I agree entirely. It's one thing when your delusions are about you and you alone. But when she's using this fantasy life to try and knock other people down, she's really backing the other ladies up against the wall. For instance, in Montana she kept acting like SHE was the grandest hostess that ever lived, you would be so privileged to attend one of HER parties and dine aboard her yacht. But Kristen? She's just a shitty hostess, nowhere near Sonja's level. I wouldn't stand by and tolerate that attitude either. 

[jelliebean]

But Carole's first blog was written before Ramona made disparaging remarks about Jonathon*.  I don't see a strong relationship between Heather and Ramona anymore, therefore I think the relationship between Carole and Ramona is probably now in the dumper.

It seems Heather would expect (demand) the same loyalty from Carole when Jon was dissed as Heather showed to Carole when Carole's career was questioned.

I may be wrong but I think Heather will dismiss Ramona's seemingly unkind remarks about Jonathan because they were really stupid. Heather's handsome hubby doesn't have swagger because he doesn't need it. He doesn't have to walk into a room and own it. He loves his wife, he takes his daughter to a baby shower and lets her have all the balloons she wants and he plays nerf warrior with his son on the beach. I don't think Heather has to expect or demand Carole to defend him. Carole will do it because she knows him. JMHO.

[ryebread]

 I don't think Heather has to expect or demand Carole to defend him. Carole will do it because she knows him. JMHO.

This part I suppose I agree with because he seems like a nice enough guy and Carole does know that.  I guess what I mean is that if Heather is still upset with Ramona for what she said, yet Carole continued to write rosy blogs about Ramona, that Heather would take that as being a non-loyal friend.  Then, I could see Carole cutting Ramona off at the knees.

 

But if Heather has in fact moved on and forgiven Ramona, then I believe the friendship between Carole and Ramona is also safe.

[Nanny pants]

Sonja is "painfully" compensating those she's hurt? I have read detailed descriptions of what Sonja did which warranted that judgment against her. It's not like she woke up one morning, removed her French satin eye mask, stretched and inadvertently did $7,000,000.00 damage to someone. She perpetrated a fraud, and when the aggrieved parties cried foul, she had some of her oh-so-influential friends try to strong arm them, claiming, "This is just how business us conducted." No it's not. And after the judgment against her was rendered, she filed for bankruptcy protection of her assets. This has not worked either because of the INTENTIONAL nature of her actions. I don't see Sonja doing anything "painfully". All attempts to get her to see that despite her proclamations of beauty, talent and savvy "lifestyle advice", she is just someone who owes people a shit load of money. Cough it up, Sonja. Get a job, support yourself and move on.

[njbchlover]

You see, as a "Lifestyle Branding Consultant", or whatever the fuck she says she is, Sonja will have only the very best, top-notch lawyers, judges and trustees for her bankruptcy reorganization. Anything less just wouldn't do.

 

Hi!  So loving this and everyone else's comments....I read Sonja's blog (and I agree with everyone - it is one disjointed, confusing mess....), and this is what she has to say about being a "lifestyle branding EXPERT"....

 

"...I also think the viewer knows very well what a lifestyle expert is if they have been watching me Sharpie my bags, use a bottle brush to clean the toilet, glue my hangers with crazy glue, cook in a toaster oven, make flower arrangements from the corner deli, and pick up an orchid at Home Depot and put it in a French cache pot. It's someone that knows how to work with what they have and to do with less when necessary but still live a life of luxury -- when you don't have all the money in the world and even when you do."

 

I guess that makes EVERY woman in America, or around the world, who doesn't have buckets of money at their disposal a "lifestyle expert", because don't we all try to do the same things??  Well, tbh, I've never Sharpie'd my bags (I've done it with my son's sneakers a few times and a couple of belts, though), and I own a toilet cleaning brush, so I don't need to use a bottle brush to clean the toilet...but, I think we've all purchased flowers from somewhere other than a typical florist shop and arranged them in our own vases, and we do try other tricks to make things look pretty and original while decorating "on a dime"....there are hundreds of books available on how to do this, as well as magazines and online websites...all of which will give you better ideas and advice than Sonja!!

Edited July 31, 2014 by njbchlover

[jelliebean]

This part I suppose I agree with because he seems like a nice enough guy and Carole does know that.  I guess what I mean is that if Heather is still upset with Ramona for what she said, yet Carole continued to write rosy blogs about Ramona, that Heather would take that as being a non-loyal friend.  Then, I could see Carole cutting Ramona off at the knees.

 

But if Heather has in fact moved on and forgiven Ramona, then I believe the friendship between Carole and Ramona is also safe.

Carole already stated in her blog that week that she wished she had been in that tent when the two women were going after Jonathan. Nothing rosy about it. I would just like to add that given the heartache Ramona has gone through since filming ended I hope Heather will cut her some slack when it comes Ramona's comment Jonathan being "vanilla" and  how when Mario walks into a room he takes over and "the girls are all hey hey" (she actually said that).

[njbchlover]

I think if she were merely delusional, sharpie-ing her bags and returning dresses after wearing them and filming in the one room of her home where the wallpaper isn't peeling, sharing anecdotes about how much the Churchills love her toaster oven snacks, etc., but otherwise being a pleasure to be around, nobody would poke her for being delusional.

 

But cracks like "you used to WORK for P Diddy - P Diddy comes on MY YACHT!" are designed to put people in their place.  A place beneath HER.  I don't think they owe her the kindness of supporting her delusion when she's using it to club them over the head with her superiority.    That's certainly where I would draw the line.  

 

 

I think it borders on mental illness to not reconcile the objective reality seen by others with your fronting.  Most of Atlanta and Jersey and a few on Beverly Hills have tried pretending they are way more financially secure than they are.  No doubt they've had a lot of practice in their real lives pre-show, just by carrying the right bag and leasing the right car.  That's basically the target demographic for most of these franchises - delusionally aspirational fame whores. 

 

Sonja's gone way beyond that, however.  Witness the discussion with Ramona about "i could be a comedian!  I could be a broadway star!"  And the discussions with Reid and Harry about the damn Nigerian soccer team/perfume/French shirt/housewares collection. If she doesn't know she's coming off as a lunatic, that's a dissociation from reality.  

 

She could have been the somewhat kooky but mentally together person from her first season, thrown herself on Ramona and Aviva and LuAnn's mercy to fix her up with guys, and possibly parlayed it into something positive, romantically,or at least image-wise.  Instead, she's icing her face in bidets and flashing her sagging butt at dinner parties and propositioning every guy under 25 she runs into, despite their obvious discomfort...

 

Say what you will about Aviva -- when her plan to have Dad save her apple tanked because he was universally condemned as a creepazoid, she dealt with that reality.  Maybe not well, but she didn't deny it.  

 

I kind of felt awkward with the grey gardens thing with Carole there - that was her mother in law's aunt and cousin.  A little close to home.  I'm kind of surprised Aviva and Sonja didn't go there.   

 

 

Thanks for that info - I didn't know that they were related to Carole...maybe that was why LuAnn gently referred to them as "mentally ill" rather than screaming that they were delusional, deranged or just plain ole' batsh*t crazy!

 

To be honest, I kind of get more of a "Blanche Dubois" vibe from Sonja.  She's kind of creating this fantasy world for herself, where she is still in the upper echelons of society and the toast of the town, instead of a near-broke, down on her luck, aging socialite who is losing her appeal. 

 

I can totally see Sonja in a scene where she would tell someone "I always rely on the kindness of strangers"....

[ScoobieDoobs]

Here is the deal with the Sonja judgment - she admits to it and recognizes she has to pay it back and is being made to pay it back.

 

On this I firmly do NOT agree.  Poor dear cutesy adorable Sonja leaves out one major point -- how she deliberately defrauded that company.  Cute & adorable?  Idk, maybe I'm nuts, but fraud is neither cute nor adorable to me.  The woman is a con artist, but a cute, adorable & charming con artist.  Oh and I forgot horny.

 

The rest of her bullshit is mostly harmless.  It's up to her if she wants to put out this babble.  If anyone chooses to believe her nonsense, guess that's up to them.  I still don't like the intern stuff cuz it smacks to me of slavery & taking advantage of internship programs, which can be very worthwhile.  It's really annoying as fuck actually.  

 

I'm certain Andy Cohen loves Sonja's intern crap.  I saw a Youtube vid of him with his assistant, where she kidded him bout getting a raise for doing the vid with him & he got really nasty with her & pretty much said she's getting paid enough.  Nice guy, my ass.  I'm sure he thinks Sonja's intern storyline is as hilarious as George molesting every woman near him.

Edited July 31, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[jelliebean]

To be honest, I kind of get more of a "Blanche Dubois" vibe from Sonja.  She's kind of creating this fantasy world for herself, where she is still in the upper echelons of society and the toast of the town, instead of a near-broke, down on her luck, aging socialite who is losing her appeal. 

 

I can totally see Sonja in a scene where she would tell someone "I always rely on the kindness of strangers"....

 Sonja relies on the kindness of abundance candles, interns and Bravo. 

[zoeysmom]

Sonja is "painfully" compensating those she's hurt? I have read detailed descriptions of what Sonja did which warranted that judgment against her. It's not like she woke up one morning, removed her French satin eye mask, stretched and inadvertently did $7,000,000.00 damage to someone. She perpetrated a fraud, and when the aggrieved parties cried foul, she had some of her oh-so-influential friends try to strong arm them, claiming, "This is just how business us conducted." No it's not. And after the judgment against her was rendered, she filed for bankruptcy protection of her assets. This has not worked either because of the INTENTIONAL nature of her actions. I don't see Sonja doing anything "painfully". All attempts to get her to see that despite her proclamations of beauty, talent and savvy "lifestyle advice", she is just someone who owes people a shit load of money. Cough it up, Sonja. Get a job, support yourself and move on.

She filed a Chapter 11 for Reorganization.  We are talking about a judgment that involves giving John Travolya $7,000,000.00 to block out his time.  Yep she misrepresented she had the money and now she is paying something like $11,000,000.00 for her bad deeds.  Sonja's attorneys knew that the debt was not dischargeable.  It was used during the appellate process and to have a more orderly selling off of the assets. It is painful to give up your assets.  No one wants to have to sell their home.  In Sonja's case it is also very public and very humiliating. 

 

I can't think of anyone giving Sonja a job that pays more than the $400,000.00 plus a year she is now making.  So she is working.

[sasha206]

Would we watch if they were all perfectly behaved all the time? I just don't think Ramona is any more nasty than the others, she is just one of those people who speaks before she thinks. I don't see her as Machiavellian like Tamara. Just clueless, like Vicky.

 

I don't have a problem with the others commenting on her marriage. It's the reveling in her misfortune that bothers me.

 

 

Good question.  Personally, I don't enjoy the obvious TV reality villains -- the ones who are nasty for the sake of being nasty to stay on a show and amp up the drama.  I'd rather see a more genuine relationship between all of the housewives versus the fake storylines.  I'm not sure how much of the way Ramona acts is for story or show but I do think for someone who "tells it like it is" she is awfully thin skinned when it comes to herself.  So while I wouldn't revel in her misfortune, she does bring the heat on herself through her own actions.  

 

I guess in my mind, when you are on a reality show and you subject your relationship to the camera particularly holding it up as a marriage to envy, you kinda can't "shut it down."   Frankly, all she had to do was address the issue and let it drop.  "It's been a rough year for us but we're working through it."  Instead she turns it around to Andy "how's your love life" to which he smartly remarked "I'm not on a reality show."

[ScoobieDoobs]

It was used during the appellate process and to have a more orderly selling off of the assets. It is painful to give up your assets.  No one wants to have to sell their home.  In Sonja's case it is also very public and very humiliating.

 

Poor thing.  Boo freakin' hoo.  I'll try to shed a tear.  Con artists do so make me weepy.  Think I'm gonna sign up for that Sonja internship program, so I too can be one of Sonja's employees.  Even tho I'm outta college 20 years, I'm gonna go back just to be a Sonja intern.

Edited July 31, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[zoeysmom]

Is Aviva travelling?  http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/airline-passenger-attacks-crew-prosthetic-leg-article-1.1887575

 

Not quite a banner but nice of the "well wishers" to break out in "Hokey Pokey" for her.

[copacabana]

njbchlover:  Am with you on the Blanche DuBois front.  And Blanche's famous phrase was uttered at the very end as she was being escorted away by the men in white jackets.  Throw in some Norma Desmond too, as others have pointed out -- Always waiting for her big comeback -- and seeming to have forgotten that her trusty butler and chaffeur was once one of her discarded husbands.  Sonja would be lucky actually to have anyone like Erich von S. hanging around, looking after her.  Harry doesn't quite fit the bill. 

 

ScoobieDoobs:  Not much of an argument from me on the grifting side of things except to say that it is possible to be a con artist who is losing her mind. Being a grifter and off one's rocker aren't mutually exclusive. Especially when one is as lousy and inept a con as Sonja appears to be.  She seems to be treading water awaiting drowning. 

 

Part of me hopes that Sonja is being paid by Bravo to put on this pathetic performance but that doesn't appear to make sense either.  Why would she do that to herself?  No one seeing what she's up to on camera would choose to go into business with her, ever, and I can't see that her bizarre behavior is going to attract any real sugar daddies.  She's screwing herself over -- over and over again -- and doubling down on the crazy.  Her latest blog mentioned how her time was consumed with board meetings.  Oy vey ... 

 

Starting to feel like a vicious cycle too -- The fewer real opportunities for her to climb out of the hole, the more she may feel compelled to live in lala land as a way of staying on TV. Bravo executives must be trying to figure out how far to let this go before pulling the plug.  

 

And, yeah, totally on the intern-slavery angle.  Especially the naming of Pickles, which brings to mind in the most uncomfortable way Prissy from "Gone with the Wind."  Another Vivien Leigh character in the mix.  Pretty soon we'll be down to "Ship of Fools" with Sonja having to fend off Lee Marvin in some dark corridor.  

 

ryebread:   I too wish that LuAnn would stop complaining about how Sonja prefers Ramona to her.  Especially when Lu complains directly to Andy Cohen about it like he's Mommy and can make it stop.  It's nice to see her more relaxed and human -- cursing up a storm these days when she didn't used to  -- but I'd like her to retain some of her Countess moves.  It's dumb to make herself vulnerable in any way to those two.  They don't care about her and that's that. 

[panthergirl13]

Call me crazy, but I don't think anniversary gifts should require general anesthesia.

[NannyPants]

I love you, Panthergirl13.

[jelliebean]

Sonja makes me sad and mad. Imagine being her daughter two years from now. She does the show for much needed money and has lowered herself to make a fool of herself for cash.  She isn't Lucille Ball. There is a difference in being a fool and playing a fool. Sonja's best friends are the ones that are willing to rope her in to save her from herself knowing she will hate them for it.