S01.E08: Proof

[jewel21]

On the first day of school, everyone learns that the drama of the summer is anything but over and that some people will pay more for the consequences of Jeanette and Kate’s deception than others.

Airdate: 06/01/2021

[mamadrama]

From the trailer it appears that Jeanette knowing about Kate before anyone else was simply because she overheard Joy talking to Martin. Nothing nefarious there. I have a feeling that other things that look bad, like Kate having Jeanette's necklace, are going to also have similar explanations and can be chalked up NOT to malevolence but simple misunderstandings. 

[Spartan Girl]

Jeanette’s anger at Cindy is understandable, but she may want to heed her advice. Cindy is right, the lawsuit is a no-win situation and it’s not going to end well for either of the girls. Also, I can’t help but side-eye Jeanette going on about Kate bring “a huge liar that won’t contribute to a narrative that makes her look anything less than a saint.” Um, says the girl who is still lying about how many times she broke into Harris’ house.

So Ben and Vince broke up because Jamie got them into an accident and Ben blamed Jeanette by default? Well, I’m glad it wasn’t because they got outed.

Speaking of Jamie, he’s still a tool. Don’t buy his bullshit, Jeanette, he isn’t worth it.

Greg is also a tool, going with Angela before he and Cindy were even separated. And Angela still buys it even after talking with Cindy. Ugh.

I’m mixed about the fallout with her and Mallory. Yeah, Mallory was pushy but Jeanette was all too eager to ditch the prank just to be the first to tell Jamie that Kate was missing and try to ingratiate herself with Joy.

Two episodes left!

Edited June 2, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[gesundheit]

I'm really nervous we're just going to get nothing till it's all crammed into the final episode. This just raised new questions that require explanations, I'm getting frustrated that they're not really even meting out minor reveals to tide us over.

What was the domestic violence in this episode? Or do they always have that content warning at the beginning and I just hadn't noticed?

I had to pull a Martin Harris and rewind my own TV to see what he was so mad about being on that videotape. Twice! But yeah, I guess she was hiding out there for a while before he stashed her unwillingly. Doesn't exactly change anything!

[Jx223]

I was glad that Jeanette told Mallory off. I do think that Mallory was a bully towards her and I could see how her pushy behavior, fractured their friendship even before Jeanette was completely made over. Mallory had that coming from Jeanette IMO.

Vince continues to be a good friend to Jeanette. I enjoy their friendship and them watching out for each other. I think it's interesting that Ben "blamed" Jeanette because Jamie was trying to get to her to apologize and got into an accident with him. (And derailed his athletic career).

Speaking of Jamie, I also thought him meeting up with Jeanette was interesting. Jamie really has spiraled out of control over the course of the three years. And does seem to bounce back and forth between Kate/Jeanette. Though, I have always thought that he may have cared about Jeanette the most and struggled with that after Kate came back. I felt like Kate even insinuated in '94 that she felt he may have wanted Jeanette more and asked Jamie if he really wanted to be with her. Maybe he did does, but his behavior has been really poor and his life has really gone downhill since Kate returned. 

Also, Jeanette really does seem pretty angry with Cindy. I wonder if Cindy did want to come back at some point, but Greg had decided to move on. Angela mentioned that Cindy informed her he shut down after Cindy wanted space. I can understand Jeanette being angry, because she may feel like her mother should have tried harder and stuck around longer. 

[KaveDweller]

8 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Greg is also a tool, going with Angela before he and Cindy were even separated. And Angela still buys it even after talking with Cindy. Ugh.

Greg did jump into a relationship with Angela, but it seems he is right that Cindy left him. She said she was going to her sisters because she needed space. Greg then called her to tell her she was right about the key and to ask  her to come home, she says no. He also made Jeanette tell the police the about being in Martin's house. We don't know what happened next, but it feels a little like a Friends "We were on a break" situation.

Mallory and Jeanette.....so Vincent and Jeanette both bailed on the prank and Vincent was just able to lie with an excuse. Jeanette had clearly been resenting Mallory for awhile and used it as an excuse to end the friendship. Not great, but teenagers do fight and friends do grow apart. She should have handled it better, but I wouldn't want to be friends with 1993 Mallory either. 1995 Mallory seems like a much better friend with Kate.

I didn't understand what was being said on Jamie's voicemail recording or what it could possibly have had to do with Mallory's snow globe, but I am intrigued. December was when Jeanette supposedly saw Kate, right?

Poor Ben. But I don't see how Jamie drinking and driving is Jeanette's fault. He should blame Jamie.

Joy should have had her suspicions about Martin. She tells him her teenage daughter has been missing almost 24 hours and he discourages her from reporting it to the police? And doesn't even suggest calling her friends? That is pretty un principal-like.

[paulvdb]

12 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

I had to pull a Martin Harris and rewind my own TV to see what he was so mad about being on that videotape. Twice! But yeah, I guess she was hiding out there for a while before he stashed her unwillingly. Doesn't exactly change anything!

I had to pause it to finally realize that you could see Kate in the window behind Harris. It's very easy to overlook even after knowing she's there.

[Jx223]

6 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

I'm really nervous we're just going to get nothing till it's all crammed into the final episode. This just raised new questions that require explanations, I'm getting frustrated that they're not really even meting out minor reveals to tide us over.

What was the domestic violence in this episode? Or do they always have that content warning at the beginning and I just hadn't noticed?

I had to pull a Martin Harris and rewind my own TV to see what he was so mad about being on that videotape. Twice! But yeah, I guess she was hiding out there for a while before he stashed her unwillingly. Doesn't exactly change anything!

Yeah they do seem to be giving us table scraps with some of the events in this storyline. We really haven't been shown  much in the way of Martin abducting Kate/their time together during her abduction or Jeanette fully going through her transformation. Maybe more of that will be shown in the last two episodes, but it does feel a bit late on those things.

It definitely seems like Martin stashed Kate away for at least a little bit, before he decided to hold her hostage. I wonder if they ended up playing "house" together. We see Kate all dressed up in the flashbacks, right before he locks her in the basement. Maybe after she started out trusting Martin, she felt like she could be happy around him and then things really turned south and he held her captive. She's young and didn't have the wisdom of an older person, but Martin's behavior was really creepy and really did not showcase the actions of a principal that was really looking out for her best interest. A normal person would have not let people believe she had gone missing, even if they thought she was better off away from her mother. Martin was out here deceiving her mother and acting like she was going to turn up shortly. 

[gesundheit]

2 minutes ago, Jx223 said:

It definitely seems like Martin stashed Kate away for at least a little bit, before he decided to hold her hostage. I wonder if they ended up playing "house" together. We see Kate all dressed up in the flashbacks, right before he locks her in the basement. Maybe after she started out trusting Martin, she felt like she could be happy around him and then things really turned south and he held her captive. She's young and didn't have the wisdom of an older person, but Martin's behavior was really creepy and really did not showcase the actions of a principal that was really looking out for her best interest. A normal person would have not let people believe she had gone missing, even if they thought she was better off away from her mother. Martin was out here deceiving her mother and acting like she was going to turn up shortly. 

Yes, I can see how he convinced himself early on that he was protecting her (she did come to him saying her mother hit her, so he could easily tell himself that's why he lied to Joy). Kate may have gotten swept up in it and thought she was a willing participant at first, in the typical way minors don't understand why they can't give valid consent to adults. And creepy predatory adults think it's okay to do what they do because the kid is initiating the interactions. 

Really wondering what the heck that answering machine message and the snowglobe are all about. 

 

Damn. I'd taken a break from speculating for the last 2 or 3 episodes because I was getting irritated at the way the show was handling this but now I'm playing right into their evil hands again!!

[Jx223]

18 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

Yes, I can see how he convinced himself early on that he was protecting her (she did come to him saying her mother hit her, so he could easily tell himself that's why he lied to Joy). Kate may have gotten swept up in it and thought she was a willing participant at first, in the typical way minors don't understand why they can't give valid consent to adults. And creepy predatory adults think it's okay to do what they do because the kid is initiating the interactions. 

Really wondering what the heck that answering machine message and the snowglobe are all about. 

 

Damn. I'd taken a break from speculating for the last 2 or 3 episodes because I was getting irritated at the way the show was handling this but now I'm playing right into their evil hands again!!

I could see him really trying to paint Joy as abusive to Kate and that might be a big reason why she stayed with him willingly early on. (Instead of going home on her own). He even threw out the notion that Joy could be found guilty of negligence if she had went to the police right away like she wanted to, after Kate didn't come home. I could see him using those types of angles to his advantage to convince Kate to stay around willingly. I do wonder when exactly Joy finally decided to go to the police regarding Kate.

And what steps did she take to find her daughter once Kate was reported as a missing person. Even more so, because their family did have money. I also wonder what her and Kate's family thought had really happened to Kate. How long did they believe she was a runaway and at what point might they have thought that something really bad had happened to her. Jamie had mentioned to Ben early on that he thought that Kate had ran away and that was better than the alternative. Maybe there were other people who continued to think that until she was rescued. 

I also wonder what is on the answering machine.  A guess I have is maybe Kate was able to get loose one day and tried to call Jamie for help. But maybe Martin caught her right as she was doing that and the recording ended up being a bit muffled, and Jamie couldn't make out for sure that it was her. Though, I am not sure how that would tie into the snow globe.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Jx223

[ZeeEnnui]

50 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Jeanette’s anger at Cindy is understandable, but she may want to heed her advice. Cindy is right, the lawsuit is a no-win situation and it’s not going to end well for either of the girls. Also, I can’t help but side-eye Jeanette going on about Kate bring “a huge liar that won’t contribute to a narrative that makes her look anything less than a saint.” Um, says the girl who is still lying about how many times she broke into Harris’ house.

I get being upset with her mom, but Cindy was right. Never thought I'd be on Cindy's side at the end of this show, but that's how good this show is and how complex and nuanced the characters are. You fly those friendly skies, Cindy and don't you look back! I kept nodding my head during Cindy's speech. If Jeanette is innocent, I get that she'd be angry with Kate. No one wants to be the town pariah but even if she wins, Cindy is right - Kate was still kidnapped and sexually assaulted. I appreciate the show won't sensationalize her trauma by showing it but we all know that it happened. Jeanette winning would be one bitter victory, which she likely would realize later in life. 

Oh boo hoo, Jamie. I have no time for his Teen in Trouble shenanigans. 

The Triumphant Return of Red Scrunchie 2: Stalker Boogaloo! 

This was the episode where I saw that Jeanette was truly Greg's daughter. The casual lying, but more than anything that smirk that he gave Rod at the bar. Jeanette is a regular chip off the old smug, dishonest block. 

Awww Vince's morbid cute at school, and then boo sad breakup. 

I call B.S. on Jamie not only talking to Jeanette in mall jail but again at school. That would never happen. Also, can we talk about the red bloodstain shirt she was wearing? 90s fashion was not always pretty but YIKES. (I myself have some pretty hideous photos from the era so I know) but that shirt was social suicide. 

Ooooooh, Mallory had a smoking VHS, and didn't even realize it. 

17 minutes ago, Jx223 said:

I also wonder what is on the answering machine.  A guess I have is maybe Kate was able to get loose one day and tried to call Jamie for help. But maybe Martin caught her right as she was doing that and the recording ended up being a bit muffled, and Jamie couldn't make out for sure that it was her. Though, I am not sure how that would tie into the snowglobe.

Maybe, but when I first heard the recording it sounded like a sex tape, but maybe I need to listen again. 

As good as this show is, I just can't like Jeanette. Yes, she probably is innocent of seeing Kate at Martin's but she's not right. There is being an awkward teen, and then there is being a calculated creep. That b.s. where she thought she'd somehow won a prize by talking to Joy about Kate (sure, she found out Kate was missing but it bitch mom saw right through her). And then the creepiness of listening into Kate's old crew during lunch. Way to be subtle loud shirt. I still don't buy Jeanette sliding into Kate's old seat in the cafeteria in such a short amount of time unless we get a She's All That makeover where everyone at school dances it out Fatboy Slim and accepts her as one of their own. 

Disappointed in Angela who came in strong in her confrontation with Greg, and then fell for his loser "charms." 

[LittleIggy]

Wasn’t there some tinkly music on that answering machine recording before the old movie dialogue? I thought when Mallory pulled the snow globe out she was going to wind it up to play music. But nope. 
1993 Mallory was a pretty nasty person.

[mamadrama]

I have no idea how the snow globe or the tape figures into this, but I think Jeanette finally put a bunch of shit together and realized that Kate may not be lying-that she may have seen Jeanette at Martin's house (or at least knew Jeanette had been there). Ok think once Jeanette realizes that Kate wasn't being malicious, just confused, she'll drop the lawsuit. 

I think the snow globe came from his house like the yearbook did, and that after seeing Kate in the window Martin stuffed her downstairs. Kate was up walking around on her own until Joy came into the school and reported her missing. I'm not blaming Kate or even Joy, just Martin, but I think this is another example of the Rube Goldberg machine. One little thing changes everything.

[Spartan Girl]

9 hours ago, ZeeEnnui said:

As good as this show is, I just can't like Jeanette. Yes, she probably is innocent of seeing Kate at Martin's but she's not right. There is being an awkward teen, and then there is being a calculated creep. That b.s. where she thought she'd somehow won a prize by talking to Joy about Kate (sure, she found out Kate was missing but it bitch mom saw right through her). And then the creepiness of listening into Kate's old crew during lunch. Way to be subtle loud shirt. I still don't buy Jeanette sliding into Kate's old seat in the cafeteria in such a short amount of time unless we get a She's All That makeover where everyone at school dances it out Fatboy Slim and accepts her as one of their own. 

Bingo. Jeanette had all the traits of the Nice Girl, acting sweet while using every opportunity to her advantage. She was right to stand up to Mallory, but let’s be honest, she was looking to trade up to the popular crowd for a while. And as bad as 1993 Mallory was, Jeanette’s new popular friends weren’t any better in the end, given how quick they were to turn on her.

10 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Poor Ben. But I don't see how Jamie drinking and driving is Jeanette's fault. He should blame Jamie.

Seriously, he was the one who got drunk and was dumb enough to drive. And I don’t buy his eleventh hour guilt about Jeanette, given how fast he was to dump her for Kate. He only wanted to talk to her after Kate dumped his ass. I have no patience for fickle people and even less for creeps.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[Chaos Theory]

I don’t understand the bully label that Mallory has been given.  If anything I wanted MALLORY to tell Jeanette off for only caring about herself and her obsession with The Wallis family.  Maybe because I know actual people of both arc types and I don’t consider anything Mallory did to Jeanette actual bullying,   You know  that person when they ask you “what do you want to do today?”. And you say “I dont know” or  “nothing”.   And they say “well I want to do this.  So let’s do this”.  So you do that.    I don’t consider that bullying.   But I do consider Jeanette’s behavior at best stalkerish at worst the type of friend who expects everyone to understand her feelings  but is at a complete loss when someone is angry at her because she had this great news about Kate and if Mallory was really her friend she would be happy for her even if she left her to be busted or was Kate Wallis. KATE WALLIS.  Why doesn’t Mallory understand that?   Mallory is such and awful friend for not putting Jeanette and her obsession with Kate first.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Chaos Theory

[waving feather]

Mallory is brash and loud but I don't think she is a bully. She was annoyed that she got busted (at both Jeanette and Vincent) but if Jeanette wasn't so gleeful about sharing the news of Kate Wallis and was a tad more sympathetic that her friend got into trouble (like Vincent was; he was emotionally intelligent enough to ask Mallory what happened), I bet Mallory wouldn't have been so upset at her. There is a time and place to tell your Kate Wallis gossip and it was NOT the time, Jeanette! And Jeanette was the one who ended the friendship (even though she said/lied in 1994 in the mall scene* that she has always been there, like it was Mallory's choice). I just feel that Mallory, with all her flaws, was more genuine in her friendship than Jeanette was towards her.

ETA: *Jeanette's exact words were: "Mallory, I don't know what's going on. But I'm here. I've been here. You can say that I pulled away from you, but you pulled away from me, too. So I don't understand where all this rage is coming from. But if you wanna talk, you know where to find me." Then, a hug, in the most manipulative/condescending way. Wow.

Edited June 2, 2021 by waving feather

[mamadrama]

Mallory: I'm a closer.

I think Mallory will have the final puzzle piece that vindicates Jeanette and pacifies Kate. 

[mandymax]

Wild thought here, but could it all come down to Mallory being the villain, and wanting to get back at Kate for ruining her friendship with Jeannette by proxy?  Maybe Mallory was the one who saw Kate in the house when she snuck in to get the snow globe, put two and together and got five, and then called Jamie and played the snow globe and did some heavy breathing to 1) make him think Kate was having sex with 2) Martin, because the snow globe was the clue to try to guide him to Martin's house?  And Jeannette knows it and is trying to protect Mallory by taking the snow globe and getting rid of it?  It would be a redeeming factor for Jeannette, at least.

I don't know - maybe/probably a reach, but this show has been slowly building to what I'm thinking will be an explosive conclusion, and it would make sense that it would have an ending no one expected.

There's an awful lot to try to cram into the last two episodes.  Has it been renewed for a second season?

[Chaos Theory]

I think people want Mallory to be a villain. I am not quite sure why and no one has been able to explain even a little bit to me why she is the least bit “shady.”  I mean people are making excuses for  Jamie for out  right punching Jeanette but Mallory seems to be the big bad villain equal to Martin and to some even worse.  And I can’t figure out why.  I have seen no evidence to establish why.   In  1993 she was maybe a little bit pushy but so what? That is hardly a master criminal.   Mallory at absolute worst was loud and pushy and maybe trying to get Jeanette to do  things she was uncomfortable with.  But on the flip side Jeanette instead of having a real conversation with someone who was supposed to be her friend just plain dropped her because she wanted a friend upgrade because it was convenient.  

By 1995 Mallory was a different person who was a much better friend to Kate and I truly don’t understand people who refuse to see that.     Again on the flip side 1995 Jeanette was bitter because her supposed upgraded friends had dropped her because she had become town Pariah.   

 

But  j guess that is Mallory’s fault too.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Chaos Theory

[JenE4]

Kate thinks it was December when she saw Jeanette sneak out of Martin’s house and they supposedly locked eyes. So I’m almost certain that Jeanette stole that snow globe on that fateful day. To me, this implies that she did NOT see Kate because it seems like it’s in retrospect that she remembered that this is suddenly a piece of evidence against her. I’m guessing after almost 4 months of fighting, Jeanette wanted to give Mallory a stolen Christmas present from Martin’s house to make it up to her, but they had their final falling out soon after that, or the peace offering didn’t work. I’m assuming the phone call was Kate calling Jamie and the snow globe was playing in the background before Jeanette took it—somehow maybe she was able to reach to dial but the receiver was far away and that’s why you could barely hear her? Unless it was Jeanette calling with some type of a guilty conscience? It’s even possible that Mallory had a “hidden phone” to out Jeanette to Jamie—but why she wouldn’t be yelling the truth against Jeanette to help her new friend Kate is beyond me...unless we find out the whole friendship was a farce and Mallory’s “ultimate prank”—but that seems too ridiculous even for this show.

But, jeez, the entire school almost saw Kate in Martin’s house! It’s unbelievable that he convinced Joy not to call the police. I wonder how long that went on for?

[ZeeEnnui]

3 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I don’t understand the bully label that Mallory has been given.  If anything I wanted MALLORY to tell Jeanette off for only caring about herself and her obsession with The Wallis family.  Maybe because I know actual people of both arc types and I don’t consider anything Mallory did to Jeanette actual bullying,   You know  that person when they ask you “what do you want to do today?”. And you say “I dont know” or  “nothing”.   And they say “well I want to do this.  So let’s do this”.  So you do that.    I don’t consider that bullying.   But I do consider Jeanette’s behavior at best stalkerish at worst the type of friend who expects everyone to understand her feelings  but is at a complete loss when someone is angry at her because she had this great news about Kate and if Mallory was really her friend she would be happy for her even if she left her to be busted or was Kate Wallis. KATE WALLIS.  Why doesn’t Mallory understand that?   Mallory is such and awful friend for not putting Jeanette and her obsession with Kate first.

 

1 hour ago, waving feather said:

Mallory is brash and loud but I don't think she is a bully. She was annoyed that she got busted (at both Jeanette and Vincent) but if Jeanette wasn't so gleeful about sharing the news of Kate Wallis and was a tad more sympathetic that her friend got into trouble (like Vincent was; he was emotionally intelligent enough to ask Mallory what happened), I bet Mallory wouldn't have been so upset at her. There is a time and place to tell your Kate Wallis gossip and it was NOT the time, Jeanette! And Jeanette was the one who ended the friendship (even though she said/lied in 1994 in the mall scene* that she has always been there, like it was Mallory's choice). I just feel that Mallory, with all her flaws, was more genuine in her friendship than Jeanette was towards her.

ETA: *Jeanette's exact words were: "Mallory, I don't know what's going on. But I'm here. I've been here. You can say that I pulled away from you, but you pulled away from me, too. So I don't understand where all this rage is coming from. But if you wanna talk, you know where to find me." Then, a hug, in the most manipulative/condescending way. Wow.

ALL of this. I don't care for Mallory though I did appreciate her Ring Pops and Roller Skates birthday party (with "will they or won't they kiss" undertones) last week. Agree, I don't think she's a bully either. Mallory is overbearing. That can be an annoying trait in friends and I can't blame Jeanette and Vince for occasionally being annoyed with it, but let's be honest - Jeanette already had her eyes on the popular prize and was looking for ways to ditch Mallory. I was with Mallory when she busted on Jeanette for carrying around the Red Scrunchy and not shutting up about Kate. She got in trouble with Vice Principal Pedo while her friends ditched her. Can't blame Vince (and I doubt Mallory would either) but Jeanette was all about playing a game. Too bad she was playing a losing game tiddlywinks for dummies. 

Honestly, I think that Mallory would be a less polarizing character to a lot of us on the boards if she were played by a better actress. Thanks, nepotism (this is why you're not on the holiday card list). No offense to Harley Quinn Smith, but her acting is so try-hard. With a better actress we might see some layers with that performance that would make her more sympathetic but also likable (even when she's being annoying). 

[tennisgurl]

Every time an episode ends when we get some new sliver of information, I end up going "no, don't stop!" like a sucker, knowing that it will just lead into even more revelations next week but without any real answers. Jeanette episodes are so confusing, its just so hard getting a real feel for Jeanette as a person, deliberately so. I am sure that all of the most damning evidence of her intentionally abandoning Kate to Martin will have non sinister explanations, like her knowing about the kidnapping before everyone just because she overheard Joy and Martin talking about it, but the show does raise a lot of questions about what kind of person Jeanette is with that more sinister possibility hanging over her. She has a real manipulative streak, she lies, she tries to make herself the victim in everything, she's comes off as a bit of a Nice Girl, especially in 1993, who everyone assumes is sweet and innocent because of her dorky personality, but is actually someone who uses others and is quick to throw other people under the bus to get what she wants. Normally that might just be filed under the unfortunately cutthroat world of being a teenager and she will grow out of those tendencies, but even by insecure teen standards, she takes it pretty far into weird territory with things like the stalker scrunchie, especially with everything that is coming. 

I don't think that Mallory is intentionally bullying Jeanette, but I can see why Jeanette is annoyed with her. She's loud and abrasive and its always her way or the high way, 1993 Mallory isn't anywhere near the good friend to Jeanette and Vince that she is to Kate in later summers. Of course, some of Jeanette annoyance with Mallory probably isn't so much Mallory as Jeanette just being over being unpopular and Mallory's loud and proud outsider shenanigans now seem too immature and uncool for a Jeanette that is angling to up her social standing to be closer to someone like beautiful perfect Kate Wallis. The stuff about her "outgrowing" Mallory is probably more about her not wanting to be associated with a "loser" like Mallory at school than anything Mallory actually did to upset her. 

Its a bit hard for me to call Cindy or Greg as the "bad guy" in their breakup, they both clearly have messed up a lot but also have had their reasons for their behavior. Despite what Cindy claims about them being "on a break" as opposed to her actually leaving the family, she is the one who left and even when Greg called and asked her to come home she apparently didn't, so while maybe she did expect to come back around when things cooled down, she did leave. It also seems like, while Greg was already started to get interested in Angela when Cindy had just left, things didn't turn into a real relationship until Cindy was "officially" gone and they had split. Of course, Greg really just needs to pick a lane about how much he supports Jeannette, its not fair that he is so resentful of her while also supposedly being there to support her by the time she's become the town pariah, either be on her side or not. And Cindy isn't exactly wrong that the lawsuit, while probably understandable, is just making everything worse for Jeanette and she might one day regret it. Even if she is vindicated from what Kate said about her at first, she will then be the person who dragged a victim of kidnapped and assault through the dirt to legally prove that she's a liar, which Jeanette might come to regret later.

I am guessing that the message that Jamie got was Kate trying to reach him, having gotten away from the basement for a minute, but Martin got her before he could hear her, but I have no clue how that ties into a snow globe. I do know that I am LOVING these covers of 90s pop and rock classics. 

[RachelKM]

OMG you guys. This was the first time I recorded the show instead of watching the next day on Hulu.  I didn't realize that Freeform was still forced to air The 700 Club and hadn't seen the lead in explaining that it did not reflect the views of ABCFamily/Freeform in years.

It now says:

"What you are about to see is not Freeform.  We can't tell you what to watch."

and then

"But have you tried literally anything else?"

 I nearly fell off the couch. Well played Freeform.

Okay, the show.

10 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I don’t understand the bully label that Mallory has been given.  If anything I wanted MALLORY to tell Jeanette off for only caring about herself and her obsession with The Wallis family.  Maybe because I know actual people of both arc types and I don’t consider anything Mallory did to Jeanette actual bullying,   You know  that person when they ask you “what do you want to do today?”. And you say “I dont know” or  “nothing”.  

I'm not sure I would call 1993 Mallory a bully either.  But she is pushy and it's not accurate to say Jeanette was a "I don't know"/"nothing" answer person.  Jeanette made it clear several times that she wasn't entirely comfortable with The List. Each time Malloy blaster her and pushed for them to finish it. Jeanette was bristling under that even at the beginning (though she ended up enamoured with breaking into Martin's house.) Jeanette didn't want to do the video and Mallory pushed her.  Vincent seems more the type to go alone to get along, but Jeanette objected and Mallory got snarky with her. Same with the pot. 

Likewise, Mallory was giving her shit about her Kate Wallis fixation.  I'm not really sure it was stalking so much as Jeanette saw the scrunchie as an opportunity to talk to Kate when she saw her next and kept it with her for the opportunity.  If she was keeping it in her jewelry I would think it was obsession.  Carrying around "in case she sees Kate" is a person hoping to have a reason to talk to Kate and imagining it will result in they becoming friends.  Is it delusional? Probably.  But it isn't stalking, at least not beyond awkward teen girl.

I don't disagree that Jeanette was looking to trade up.  But that doesn't mean that her irritation with Mallory wasn't legitimate or justified. She wasn't just bailing on her old crew.  She still wanted to be friends with Vincent.  

This episode was, in my opinion, Harley's better work of the series.  Her crying as she walked away in 1993 and the confrontation at the door through the snow globe seemed more natural to me.

And Mallory's mellowing out and being a better/more mature friend between 1993 and 1995 makes sense.  She probably was overcompensating with her "confidence" when being the sort of ringleader of Jeanette and Vincent and was just as insecure as Jeanette. Even her Kate Wallis hate seems like jealousy and resentment of the popular girl.  Which I think also fed into Mallory's harshness in coming at Jeanette over the scrunchie.  Yes, it was annoying and delusional. But it was even more grating to Mallory because of her own insecurities and envy of Kate. 

That confrontation with Jeanette, as painful as it was, eventually made her reflect on her behavior.  I wouldn't be surprised if Vince eventually, in a kinder way, explained that Jeanette wasn't totally off base (even if delivered too harshly).  Mallory is clearly still hurt and angry 2 years later (she kept the globe, so she cares), but she has matured.

Moving on:

Jesus, Joy.  You don't know where your daughter is and you're prioritizing keeping things quiet?  Fuck you. 

18 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Wasn’t there some tinkly music on that answering machine recording before the old movie dialogue? I thought when Mallory pulled the snow globe out she was going to wind it up to play music. But nope. 
1993 Mallory was a pretty nasty person.

This is what I thought too. I do think something about the globe's music was likely the reason Jeanette went there.  But thinking about it, I can understand why Mallory didn't play the music.  She doesn't know why Jeanette wanted to have it back.  In retrospect, it really wouldn't have made much sense for Mallory to play it. It would have been for dramatic effect.  I actually appreciate that the show didn't do that.

I thought there was some dialogue that sounded like "'Til death do us part" from first a woman than a man and then music rising int the background.  So I think that part was a movie.  It had a golden age of film sound to both the dialogue and the music.

 

Dear Show,

You cannot wobbie Jamie into a acceptable. I'm glad he wanted to apologize. I'm glad he realizes how fucked up his actions were.  But he still punched Jeanette, drove drunk and injured his friend, and gaslit his kidnapping victim girlfriend. He's a jerk. 

What he went through was hard. But that he reacted with more destructive actions that either the kidnapping victim or the town pariah establishes that he not a good guy.  He's not a villain.  He's a screwed up kid.  But he is unbelievably self-involved. 

You've been pretty good at presenting complex characters without excusing them so far. So, I'm gonna trust you not to do the dumb thing and make either girl cool with him (much less in love with him) when this is over.

Sincerely, 

Rachel

Edited June 2, 2021 by RachelKM
Typos

[Ambrosefolly]

Like I have said before, I don't hate Jamie, and I credit that to the actor than to the writing, but neither of these girls should be falling for his bullshit and get back together with him. I wish his mother would slap some sense into him. As pushy as Mallory is, I was kind of on her side when Jeanette ditched her to suck up to the Wallis and Jamie. In her own way, Mallory just wants to be helpful. 

[gesundheit]

I don't think any single teen character on this show has shown a single sign of being evil or psychotic or a stalker or a monster or any of the above. I think all of them seem like kids, kids who are self-absorbed and can't see past their own noses, kids who have no idea of how to handle a crisis no adult could even fathom, kids who are in varying stages of empathy development. It all manifests itself so different in every kid, and the relational aggression here often comes from kids finding their empathy synapses (or not yet!) in ways that clash with others' development. Isolate the behavior of your average insecure kid and it looks psychotic through an adult lens. Isolate in close-ups played by, say, an actress in her early 20s trying to do some indicating to tell the audience what she's playing? Even more so. Nobody's killing any animals for fun, I feel like these are all normal kids under extraordinary circumstances, being hurt by each other and the world. I think that the audience having severe reactions to not all the same kid characters speaks to how well the show is actually presenting adolescence. (The rest of the storytelling I have some issues with! But the depiction of adolescence in all its pain and hideousness? Well done.)

 

I'm sincerely hoping now that Jeanette is the one who "solves" the mystery and brings it to Kate. I think it needs to be Jeanette's agency at this point, and the story needs to end with the girls understanding each other. That's the hopeful ending I'm naively rooting for.

[waving feather]

Jamie is a big loser with a pretty face. He's not particularly good at anything, not charming, not funny, not mentally strong and just generally weak even by teenage boy standards. He's trying to convince two girls how much he cares about them. I'm glad Kate was smart enough to ditch him in '94 and even back in '93 she was already over him. Same with Jeanette. Those girls have much more fortitude in their pinkies than Jamie, who is having a self pity party every episode, when he never really had it that bad compared to him. And if he did, like the drink driving accident, it was his own doing.

Edited June 2, 2021 by waving feather

[RachelKM]

5 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

I don't think any single teen character on this show has shown a single sign of being evil or psychotic or a stalker or a monster or any of the above. I think all of them seem like kids, kids who are self-absorbed and can't see past their own noses, kids who have no idea of how to handle a crisis no adult could even fathom, kids who are in varying stages of empathy development.

All of this. Very well put. Sometimes this show is almost painful to watch in its brutal accuracy of being an adolescent. I see myself at that age (or just 12-16 generally) in many of the things both Jeanette and Mallory have done and, to a lesser extent, Kate too.   I agree that it can, through the lense of adulthood, appear psychotic, obsessive, and/or cruel.  And if an adult behaved that way, we would rightly believe them to be unstable and possibly completely unhinged... because we are supposed to grow out of it. But, in 14-18 year olds it makes sense in all it's (unflattering) glory.

[mamadrama]

"Your actions have consequences, Jeanette."

I think that sums up the entire show. Everyone's actions led to something else happening. Sometimes the actions were good, sometimes poor, and sometimes well-intentioned but lousy, but they were choices mostly made by young people who were in the moment and acted accordingly. I don't believe any of the teens are bad or evil or immoral, sometimes they just make questionable decisions. 

I don't think there's some grand plan here. A crazy person abducted a popular teen and the small town reacted. That's basically the story. In the aftermath everyone is able to trace the lines that led to the things that happened, but that's basically life. 

Mallory (videotape), Jamie (interaction with Martin the night Kate disappeared), and Jeanette (she probably saw something in his house but didn't understand what she was seeing) ALL had pieces of the puzzle regarding Kate's disappearance but, unfortunately, they didn't know what they had. 

[Cinnabon]

4 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I think people want Mallory to be a villain. I am not quite sure why and no one has been able to explain even a little bit to me why she is the least bit “shady.”  I mean people are making excuses for  Jamie for out  right punching Jeanette but Mallory seems to be the big bad villain equal to Martin and to some even worse.  And I can’t figure out why.  I have seen no evidence to establish why.   In  1993 she was maybe a little bit pushy but so what? That is hardly a master criminal.   Mallory at absolute worst was loud and pushy and maybe trying to get Jeanette to do  things she was uncomfortable with.  But on the flip side Jeanette instead of having a real conversation with someone who was supposed to be her friend just plain dropped her because she wanted a friend upgrade because it was convenient.  

By 1995 Mallory was a different person who was a much better friend to Kate and I truly don’t understand people who refuse to see that.     Again on the flip side 1995 Jeanette was bitter because her supposed upgraded friends had dropped her because she had become town Pariah.   

 

But  j guess that is Mallory’s fault too.

IKR? God forbid women be loud, brash, and assertive. Sad that even other women still have issues with that. 

[KaveDweller]

16 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Wasn’t there some tinkly music on that answering machine recording before the old movie dialogue? I thought when Mallory pulled the snow globe out she was going to wind it up to play music. But nope. 
1993 Mallory was a pretty nasty person.

Yes, I went back and watched with closed captions on. It was a man and woman saying "Till death do us part" and music in the background.

I almost thought the snow globe was going to be people saying that dialogue, but based on how it looks, that would be a really weird snow globe. It was a Christmas scene, not a marriage one.

11 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I have no idea how the snow globe or the tape figures into this, but I think Jeanette finally put a bunch of shit together and realized that Kate may not be lying-that she may have seen Jeanette at Martin's house (or at least knew Jeanette had been there). Ok think once Jeanette realizes that Kate wasn't being malicious, just confused, she'll drop the lawsuit. 

I think Jeanette must have been in Martin's house Christmas Eve. She really zeroed in on Jamie saying the call came in that day. I am not sure how it all fits together though. Maybe she heard the dialogue from the phone call while she was there, realized someone was home, and left the house? That doesn't explain the phone call though.

Something that occurred to me is that Mallory knows Jeanette went back to Martin's house after the original break in. She even has the yearbook as proof. Has she told Kate this and offered to testify that Jeanette is lying about going back to the house? If she really hates Jeanette and considers Kate her new BFF that seems like the natural thing to do.

About Mallory, I don't think she is a bully. But in 1993 she was someone who liked to control what she and her friends did, and Jeanette clearly wanted to be that person herself. She ended up friends with two girls who seem to be followers.

[Cinnabon]

Mallory is a 90s Riot Girrrl type, and Kate and her friends are the pretty little princess small town Texas prom queens. Kate later showed herself to be more than that. But I’m team Mallory all the way (that doesn’t mean she doesn’t have her faults).

Edited June 2, 2021 by Cinnabon

[gesundheit]

18 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

About Mallory, I don't think she is a bully. But in 1993 she was someone who liked to control what she and her friends did, and Jeanette clearly wanted to be that person herself. She ended up friends with two girls who seem to be followers.

Yeah, it seems to me she's just more bossy than bully. There's usually a ringleader among teen friends (even if it's just by default), she's just bumping up against someone who wants to be focused elsewhere but doesn't know how negotiate for that space and resents it. I can understand where both she and Jeanette were coming from in that friendship breakdown.

[Guest]

Mallory is possessive and annoying, but so are a lot of teen girls. At least she seems to have significantly improved by 1995. And it’s highly possible that she and Jeanette are just a toxic friendship combination that brings out the worst in one another. That’s also very true of high school. A lot of people are friends by default simply because they met in elementary school, only to realize they are totally different people by high school. I think that Jeanette has always been a follower and the dynamic has obviously started to grate on her, which is fair - The problem isn’t that she wants more agency in her friendships, it’s that her motivation for the friction with Mallory is some far flung social climbing fantasy. She thinks Mallory is beneath her now that she thinks Kate might befriend her and she could have a shot with Jamie. I understand why both girls are upset and even though both are very irritating characters, that fight felt very much authentic in terms of petty teen drama, lol. 

Again, I don’t buy the fact that the flirtation between Jamie and Jeanette started in 1993, orthodontic upgrades aside. Especially all of the heavy interest coming from Jamie. Suddenly he's all bashful around a nerd girl he barely knows because her teeth are straight now? The hard partying, status-obsessed jock? Not to say kids won't ever date outside their clique, but he certainly wouldn't. That’s just a really weird detail that doesn’t ring true to the character. And man, does he suck! It is totally in character that he would drive drunk with Ben, but at least Ben didn’t die. Given that Vince is the one person Jeanette truly cares about, I can’t believe that she would date Jamie after that and also that Vince would continue to not only to speak to her, but happily volunteer to be basically her sole emotional support knowing that she jumped at the chance to date the guy who ruined his boyfriend's life. Jeanette is also terrible though, so they definitely deserve each other. 

So the entire lawsuit is essentially Jeanette suing Kate for claiming Jeanette knew she was being held hostage prior to the discovery? Cindy is right, it’s almost redundant to sue a kidnapping victim for character defamation. Jeanette is defaming her own character all by herself. It’s hard to come up with a more scumbag lawsuit than that, especially when it’s over the idea that you could’ve saved her earlier but didn’t. Even though it’s obvious that it will be revealed that Jeanette has no criminal liability after all and it’s all a web of misunderstanding, I still don’t like her very much. She’s a very smug, manipulative person who only cares about herself and her reputation. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Guest

[tennisgurl]

I feel like by the end the only real “villain” will be Martin. Most everyone else is flawed, insecure, angry, petty, or just make bad choices, but no one else will actually be full on evil. Especially the teen characters, who are all pretty messy to various degrees, but in the way that teens are. They’re kids, not supervillains. 

[RachelKM]

2 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

The problem isn’t that she wants more agency in her friendships, it’s that her motivation for the friction with Mallory is some far flung social climbing fantasy. She thinks Mallory is beneath her now that she thinks Kate might befriend her and she could have a shot with Jamie.

I don't think this is true.  Yes, Jeanette has social aspirations.  But her chafing at Mallory's rules had started from the first episode even before Jeanette had any formed aspirations to higher social status.  She had the one conversation with Kate on her birthday.  But there wasn't much shown on that day that indicated that it stuck with her.  But Jeanette was already starting to state her misgivings about The List and Mallory demanding that they complete all of it (most if not all seemed to have been drafted by Mallory herself).

I think Jeanette was drifting from Mallory or otherwise outgrowing their dynamic before she latched on to the idea of Kate and/or Jamie.  And I don't think she thought Mallory was beneath her.  I think she viewed both herself and Mallory as below Kate and she wanted to get up to that level. 

2 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Again, I don’t buy the fact that the flirtation between Jamie and Jeanette started in 1993, orthodontic upgrades aside. Especially all of the heavy interest coming from Jamie. Suddenly he's all bashful around a nerd girl he barely knows because her teeth are straight now?

I didn't read the situation the same.  I didn't see Jamie's "interest" as sincere flirtation but more being friendly to the nerdy girl who surprised him by ending up in mall jail.  I'm not sure Jamie is so status focused, at least not enough that it is a personality trait.  All teens have a little of it. And most teens, when out of the view of those who might judge them, are actually pretty nice one on one even if they won't interact when it could affect how others view them. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by RachelKM

[Ambrosefolly]

41 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

So the entire lawsuit is essentially Jeanette suing Kate for claiming Jeanette knew she was being held hostage prior to the discovery? Cindy is right, it’s almost redundant to sue a kidnapping victim for character defamation. Jeanette is defaming her own character all by herself. It’s hard to come up with a more scumbag lawsuit than that, especially when it’s over the idea that you could’ve saved her earlier but didn’t. Even though it’s obvious that it will be revealed that Jeanette has no criminal liability after all and it’s all a web of misunderstanding, I still don’t like her very much. She’s a very smug, manipulative person who only cares about herself and her reputation. 

Jeanette's life has been turned into a living hell with the vultures using her downfall to improve their status because of a very public accusation. It was pretty weird (and I don't think legal) for news to constantly talk and target a minor that wasn't charged with a crime, even if Kate accused her on national television. If Jeanette is innocent of what Kate accused her off, Jeanette thinks that Kate is being vindictive because she "took her place" in her social group (which doesn't seem to be much of a prize as the series progresses).I think in her and Greg's heads, if they win, the lawsuit will clear their family name. However, on this one, Cindy is correct. Maybe watching on the sidelines gave her the better perspective. 

41 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Again, I don’t buy the fact that the flirtation between Jamie and Jeanette started in 1993, orthodontic upgrades aside. Especially all of the heavy interest coming from Jamie. Suddenly he's all bashful around a nerd girl he barely knows because her teeth are straight now? The hard partying, status-obsessed jock? Not to say kids won't ever date outside their clique, but he certainly wouldn't. That’s just a really weird detail that doesn’t ring true to the character. And man, does he suck! It is totally in character that he would do that to Ben, but at least Ben didn’t die. Given that Vince is the one person she truly cares about, I can’t believe that she would date Jamie after that and also that Vince would continue to not only be friends with her, but happily volunteer to be basically her sole emotional support knowing that she jumped at the chance to date the guy who ruined his boyfriend's life. Jeanette is also terrible though, so they definitely deserve each other. 

The accident happened after Jamie stopped dating both Kate and Jeanette. Jeanette dropped out of school soon after and barricaded herself in her home. I think when she came to his garage, it was the first time in months they spoke. I actually liked that Jeanette called him out for punching her in the face. Hopefully she doesn't go back to him either.

I now want Ben and Kate to be friends. Both of them have been through a type of trauma. It looks like Ben athletic career, if he had one, came to an end thanks to the accident and that is hard when you are a kid.

And Vince seems to be such a nice kid, who really didn't do anything for all the crap to come to his doorstep. I want him to catch a break. Martin really ruined a lot of people's lives. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Ambrosefolly

[KaveDweller]

13 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

So the entire lawsuit is essentially Jeanette suing Kate for claiming Jeanette knew she was being held hostage prior to the discovery? Cindy is right, it’s almost redundant to sue a kidnapping victim for character defamation. Jeanette is defaming her own character all by herself. It’s hard to come up with a more scumbag lawsuit than that, especially when it’s over the idea that you could’ve saved her earlier but didn’t. Even though it’s obvious that it will be revealed that Jeanette has no criminal liability after all and it’s all a web of misunderstanding, I still don’t like her very much. She’s a very smug, manipulative person who only cares about herself and her reputation. 

I agree the lawsuit against a kidnapped victim sounds pretty bad, and winning won't really make Jeanette feel good or change anything. But think about this from Jeanette's perspective (assuming she is innocent of what she is accused of). 

The day before Kate was found, Jeanette had two loving parents in a seemingly happy marriage, a boyfriend she had just lost her virginity to, and a group of friends. She seemed popular and happy.

Since Kate has made her accusation:

• Her boyfriend assaulted her and then dropped her (which is probably not a loss, but would have felt like one).
• Her friends ditched her and started harassing her.
• Her parents split up and her mom went off to become a flight attendant.
• She got harassed at school to the point that she had to drop out.
• Her father lost his job (and his income, which may be a big driver in the lawsuit) and started to resent her for it.
• Her family was harassed with prank phone calls.
• Her name's been dragged through the mud in the national media and apparently has been called a "disgrace" by the governor of her state. So even if she moves to a new town people will know what happened.
• Her house and car are constantly vandalized/graffitied.
• She can't leave her house without someone insulting her....we even saw someone throwing food at her.
• She somehow ended up with a terrible haircut.

I'm not saying this compares to what Kate went through, but it is a lot and I can understand why she is trying to fight back with a lawsuit.

[mamadrama]

In the real world the media would be been courting Jeanette to get her side as hard as they were going after Kate. If there's one thing they love more than a victim it's a villain. Sally Jesse, Montel, Ricki Lake...all those '90's shows I watched at the time. They'd have loved Jeanette. 

[jmcd44]

5 hours ago, RachelKM said:

 

OMG you guys. This was the first time I recorded the show instead of watching the next day on Hulu.  I didn't realize that Freeform was still forced to air The 700 Club and hadn't seen the lead in explaining that it did not reflect the views of ABCFamily/Freeform in years.

It now ends says:

"What you are about to see is not Freeform.  We can't tell you what to watch."

and then

"But have you tried literally anything else?"

 I nearly fell off the couch. Well played Freeform.

 

I rewound & took a picture to send to my friends & laughed & laughed!

3 hours ago, gesundheit said:

I'm sincerely hoping now that Jeanette is the one who "solves" the mystery and brings it to Kate. I think it needs to be Jeanette's agency at this point, and the story needs to end with the girls understanding each other. That's the hopeful ending I'm naively rooting for.

I do too. I’m not sure why but I just can’t stand Jeanette & I feel bad that I don’t like a teenage girl being vilified by a town. I would like to cheer for both teenage girls & this would help  

Vincent remains the best. 

[mamadrama]

30 minutes ago, jmcd44 said:

I rewound & took a picture to send to my friends & laughed & laughed!

I do too. I’m not sure why but I just can’t stand Jeanette & I feel bad that I don’t like a teenage girl being vilified by a town. I would like to cheer for both teenage girls & this would help  

Vincent remains the best. 

So. Much. This. Jeanette's a good example of how a person doesn't have to be likable to be a victim. 

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

I call B.S. on Jamie not only talking to Jeanette in mall jail but again at school. 

Why? I think it probably happens more than fictional dramas would have us believe. My high school had some jerks and snoots but it was nothing like a John Hughes "divided cliques" kind of thing at all.

Quote

I do know that I am LOVING these covers of 90s pop and rock classics. 

I only noticed The Pixies in this one (which I thought was the real song, not a cover? Weird, I actually just heard that song over the weekend)--what else was there?

Edited June 3, 2021 by TattleTeeny

[bara007]

2 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

So the entire lawsuit is essentially Jeanette suing Kate for claiming Jeanette knew she was being held hostage prior to the discovery? Cindy is right, it’s almost redundant to sue a kidnapping victim for character defamation. Jeanette is defaming her own character all by herself. It’s hard to come up with a more scumbag lawsuit than that, especially when it’s over the idea that you could’ve saved her earlier but didn’t.

In my view in Civil law this is a way of saying: "not guilty". There is no other way to get it out there, officially.

Every lawyer will recommend this position in a (difficult) situation like this, it is not question of "bad character" or "good character". This is a right the state has given you.

To protect your name.

 

And as to another comment on this site - a lot of money is going to be involved, that is in the end. Kate is going to pay huge damages to Jeanette for smearing her name by the decision of the court.

The elegant thing for Jeanette to do of course in that case is to afterwards waive the damages.

 

That is why Kate`s parents are so nervous.

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by bara007

[starri]

Dear Show:  As someone who was also a gay 17-year-old in 1995, I am well aware that the options for "happy endings" for an pair of interracial gay teens is really limited, but PLEASE, give us one.

[bara007]

2 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

A lot of people are friends by default simply because they met in elementary school, only to realize they are totally different people by high school. I think that Jeanette has always been a follower and the dynamic has obviously started to grate on her, which is fair - The problem isn’t that she wants more agency in her friendships, it’s that her motivation for the friction with Mallory is some far flung social climbing fantasy.

I think the problem has started with Jeanette, at least in the episodes we have seen, when Mallory is degrading her and belittling her all the time when Jeanette is thinking people might actually like her.

Why wouldn't she like Kate, she is nice, what is the problem?

Mallory is just jealous.

And for Jeanette - of course you have to put in some effort to make new friends. Always. Let yourself be known. How else will people know you? Sometimes it means looking for hobbies/interest you share with people etc.

 

[Anela]

20 hours ago, gesundheit said:

I'm really nervous we're just going to get nothing till it's all crammed into the final episode. This just raised new questions that require explanations, I'm getting frustrated that they're not really even meting out minor reveals to tide us over.

What was the domestic violence in this episode? Or do they always have that content warning at the beginning and I just hadn't noticed?

I had to pull a Martin Harris and rewind my own TV to see what he was so mad about being on that videotape. Twice! But yeah, I guess she was hiding out there for a while before he stashed her unwillingly. Doesn't exactly change anything!

He was probably concerned that she had seen Kate show up, or might have seen her inside, through the windows.  

[Anela]

14 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I have no idea how the snow globe or the tape figures into this, but I think Jeanette finally put a bunch of shit together and realized that Kate may not be lying-that she may have seen Jeanette at Martin's house (or at least knew Jeanette had been there). Ok think once Jeanette realizes that Kate wasn't being malicious, just confused, she'll drop the lawsuit. 

I think the snow globe came from his house like the yearbook did, and that after seeing Kate in the window Martin stuffed her downstairs. Kate was up walking around on her own until Joy came into the school and reported her missing. I'm not blaming Kate or even Joy, just Martin, but I think this is another example of the Rube Goldberg machine. One little thing changes everything.

I thought the same thing.  Maybe she escaped the basement, and called him, at the same time as Jeanette broke in and stole the snow globe.  Something like that.  

[Anela]

2 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I agree the lawsuit against a kidnapped victim sounds pretty bad, and winning won't really make Jeanette feel good or change anything. But think about this from Jeanette's perspective (assuming she is innocent of what she is accused of). 

The day before Kate was found, Jeanette had two loving parents in a seemingly happy marriage, a boyfriend she had just lost her virginity to, and a group of friends. She seemed popular and happy.

Since Kate has made her accusation:

• Her boyfriend assaulted her and then dropped her (which is probably not a loss, but would have felt like one).
• Her friends ditched her and started harassing her.
• Her parents split up and her mom went off to become a flight attendant.
• She got harassed at school to the point that she had to drop out.
• Her father lost his job (and his income, which may be a big driver in the lawsuit) and started to resent her for it.
• Her family was harassed with prank phone calls.
• Her name's been dragged through the mud in the national media and apparently has been called a "disgrace" by the governor of her state. So even if she moves to a new town people will know what happened.
• Her house and car are constantly vandalized/graffitied.
• She can't leave her house without someone insulting her....we even saw someone throwing food at her.
• She somehow ended up with a terrible haircut.

I'm not saying this compares to what Kate went through, but it is a lot and I can understand why she is trying to fight back with a lawsuit.

Yes, she’s described as the most hated girl in the US, so I can understand wanting to fight back against all of that.  

[gesundheit]

32 minutes ago, Anela said:

He was probably concerned that she had seen Kate show up, or might have seen her inside, through the windows.  

Oh yes, I knew what he was worried about. But when he saw something and smashed the tape, I couldn't see what it was until I rewound it myself. I got there!

2 minutes ago, Anela said:

Yes, she’s described as the most hated girl in the US, so I can understand wanting to fight back against all of that.  

Yes. Given what we know about Kate's mother, I can't imagine she didn't run with it and gleefully try to turn folks against Jeanette to deflect her own failures as a mother. Clearly Jeanette has already been legally exonerated of the accusation, but everyone still assumes it's true. I can understand the need to hold the Wallis family accountable for whatever they ran with. Less about suing a victim and more about having a chance to prove her own innocence (rather than there just not being enough evidence for a criminal indictment). Should she win and stay in the town, lording it over everyone? No. But she could clear her name so that she can salvage some kind of a future for herself.

All that said, this once again brings me around to how much of this actual story we have yet to be told, and I do not believe that 94 total minutes over the next two weeks will be sufficient. It's irritating. It's like a season-long teaser for a story we have yet to be told any of.

[mamadrama]

New theory:

Mallory saw Kate in the window but didn't tell anyone because, at the time, she wasn't sure what she was looking at. Once Kate was rescued Mallory realized what she'd seen and, and how Kate could've been saved earlier if she'd spoken up, and it tore her up. That's why she's in therapy and why she is being so nice to Kate- penance. 

[BingeyKohan]

Surely one of the final two episodes is not going to be set on 3 different Christmas Eves, right? Because by 1995 Christmas Eve surely the drama of the legal case would have already played out. But now Christmas Eve of 1993 seems so important they will have to show something from it, which would mean ... flashback within a flashback. Or maybe they are going to surprise with a Season One Part II called Cruel Winter (kidding).