S03:E05 Something Borrowed, Something Blue

[AgentRXS]

Quote

A visit from an old friend complicates Angel and Papi's wedding plans. Meanwhile, Elektra expands her business with the help of her new, shady, associates.

Original Air Date: May 23, 2021

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Promo:

 

[Surrealist]

As soon as Papi's son hugged him, the waterworks started.

Also I need Elektra to be my life coach.

[AgentRXS]

This episode went way too far into fantasy land for my tastes.  It's feast or famine with this show---either everyone is suffering or they are getting unrealistic opportunities. I wish I lived in Pose's version of 1994.

I was thinking the timeline for Papi's son was a little funny,but then I remembered Season 1 ended in 1988 and Season 2 picked up in 1990 so I guess he was supposed to be born in between seasons. Okay. Such soapiness.

 

[Surrealist]

13 minutes ago, AgentRXS said:

This episode went way too far into fantasy land for my tastes.  It's feast or famine with this show---either everyone is suffering or they are getting unrealistic opportunities. I wish I lived in Pose's version of 1994.

I was thinking the timeline for Papi's son was a little funny,but then I remembered Season 1 ended in 1988 and Season 2 picked up in 1990 so I guess he was supposed to be born in between seasons. Okay. Such soapiness.

 

In 1994, I graduated from high school. I never saw such extravagance either. Maybe in another part of the country.

I don't mind the fantasy aspect much because I understand what the writers and producers are aiming for, but I do wish it would veer more toward realism. LGBTQ folks didn't have it that easy back then. I wish the show reflected that a bit more. It's why I started watching it, and got hooked. The show was a view into another world I never knew, and the characters and their struggles drew me in. It's important for people who didn't live their lives to understand how incredibly difficult it was for them.

 

[LittleIggy]

I can’t believe that fat toad bridal gallery owner took one look at our lovely ladies and clocked all of them as trans-women. I loved all of them trying on the gowns. Once again Dominique Jackson was outrageously fantastic. Horny has no borders! 😆

[AgentRXS]

Yeah, just like I am supposed to believe healthy looking and plump in the right places Lulu is in the throes of a crack addiction. 😒

[Hiyo]

Quote

LGBTQ folks didn't have it that easy back then

Especially trans women of color, who were the bottom of the bottom.

Quote

It's important for people who didn't live their lives to understand how incredibly difficult it was for them.

Yeah. As noted above, the show goes only for "feast or famine"...the writers can find a much more realistic middle ground, I think, to show how tough things were for them without going too far into the fantasy area. But, hey it's the last season and we need to give (most of) them a happy ending. I wonder if that's what they did with Cubby and Damon* early on in the season, get that out of the way and let the rest of the characters get it on in as much of a happy way as possible.

With all that, it was still a good episode. I guess next episode will be Blanca's focus episode, then the finale to wrap things up? Too bad for Lulu.

 

*And yes I realize that was more BTS drama, but still, it seems the writers might have purposefully given him a less than happy ending to balance things out for everyone.

[Surrealist]

57 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

I can’t believe that fat toad bridal gallery owner took one look at our lovely ladies and clocked all of them as trans-women. I loved all of them trying on the gowns. Once again Dominique Jackson was outrageously fantastic. Horny has no borders! 😆

I thought the same: how did the bridal gallery owner know they were trans immediately?

His reaction to them was realistic because that's how he would have behaved toward transwomen in that time period. Hell, there are people who still treat transwomen terribly and are violent toward them.

The ladies on the show can all pass. The owner's overreaction toward them right off bat felt a bit out of left field for me.

ETA: I would love for Lulu to have a happy ending, or some more screentime. I want to know more about her, but that's not likely going to happen.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Surrealist

[buttersister]

I hope most of this episode made a lot of people happy. I was seesawing between enjoying the fantasy and thinking the FBI was coming for Electra. 

Oy. Papi stuck with Angel through everything. Looks like the drinks and the drugs are messing her up to here. Maybe her mother should be paying  more attention to Angel than to LuLu.

[Juneau Gal]

Angel has been insufferably selfish this season. I understand that the news of Papi’s son would be a bit to take in and the timing was not optimal, BUT to walk out as Papi was on his knees begging, a man who has stuck by her 100% through it all, Nope, that’s not good. AND when she’s was earlier in the episode telling him he wasn’t rich? Bitch, please, he has you living in a great apartment; from where you all started out, Papi is richer than you could have ever dreamed. 
The character development has been so off this season. Elektra has always been greedy, but she’s too smart to ever get herself mobbed up. That is not going to end well and I don’t want that for her. 

[TrininisaScorp]

I agree with all of you.  It's really fun to watch the extravagance and the money flowing from Elektra, but it's realism is super questionable. I LOVED Elektra's meeting with the mob guys, but when did the mob get taken down by Guliani?  Was it in the 90s?  Because if so, then Elektra and her money are headed for a great fall. 

I LOVE Lil Papi and the story of the child was an unexpected, tragic twist.  I know Angel has stuff going on, but he has been there for her from the moment they met.  She may need time with it, but to see him on his knees begging and her just walking out really upset me.  I love the Angel/Papi relationship, but she seems to play the power dynamic in a way that bothers me a bunch. Boo. 

The music is always so good.  I played that Janet CD until I broke it and needed a new one. 

[Hiyo]

Quote

It's really fun to watch the extravagance and the money flowing from Elektra, but it's realism is super questionable

My issue with that isn't so much the money itself, but the timeline of it all, if that makes sense? She got rich a little too quick, I feel. In 4 years? Eh. Ok show, whatever. I mean, had they flashed ahead to 1998 and she was that successful, instead of 1994 then I could probably buy Elektra's success.

Quote

I played that Janet CD until I broke it and needed a new one. 

Lot of good songs on that album.

[Glade]

3 hours ago, AgentRXS said:

This episode went way too far into fantasy land for my tastes.  It's feast or famine with this show---either everyone is suffering or they are getting unrealistic opportunities. I wish I lived in Pose's version of 1994.

 

At this point I almost feel like it's going to end like Rosanne did, with Blanca in wheelchair in front of a typewriter surrounded by her old furniture, talking about how none of them ever really became rich or successful, and almost everyone was murdered or incarcerated or died of HIV/AIDS or an overdose, and that the real house couples were actually Papi/Pray Tell and Angel/Lulu.  I definitely miss how grounded season 1 was.

 

For a second I almost thought Elektra was going to tell this group of transwomen that she would pay for the gender-affirming surgeries of everyone who wanted them, which would be a huge gift, much more then dresses.  You'd think she would be offering that at least to the transwomen in her family right now, since the lack of gender-affirming healthcare and it's great expense was often a more pressing concern then clothes and furniture.  But we've left that subject behind even though it was talked about a great deal in season one.  

I was also holding my breath thinking that Marisol's sister was going to tell Papi that she died of HIV/AIDS and he might have it too...but thankfully not.  Clearly the wedding will happen next week and they'll raise the child together, so I'm not sure the cliffhanger was necessary.  And I'm guessing Ricky, Pray Tell, and Lemar will all be at the wedding even though they were absent this week.  Two episodes left...

[Blakeston]

3 hours ago, buttersister said:

I hope most of this episode made a lot of people happy. I was seesawing between enjoying the fantasy and thinking the FBI was coming for Electra. 

Agreed. I don't think the writers wanted the audience to put much thought into this, and they figured we'd just squeal at the sight of the characters trying on all those dresses.

But honestly, I kept thinking, "Man oh man, are these characters stupid!"

First there's Elektra. In the first episode, the police warned her that Giuliani was after the mafia and the sex industry, and threatened to search her home and her books. (Which is why she had to get rid of the suitcase.)

So now she's living life in open, outrageous extravagance, and meeting with the mafiosos in her home, and arranging for the dress heist - which would be so easy to tie back to her?

Her behavior is just as clueless as it was in season 1, when she assumed that Christopher Meloni's character would be fine with her having gender surgery, and would let her keep the apartment and clothes.

And Angel and Papi were planning to have a city hall marriage, even though the preview for next week

Spoiler

confirms that Angel is still legally regarded as male. How the hell did they think they could get city hall to approve - by asking really nicely?

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Blakeston

[BloggerAloud]

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

So now she's living life in open, outrageous extravagance, and meeting with the mafiosos in her home, and arranging for the dress heist - which would be so easy to tie back to her?

 

I would say this is hugely stupid but not out of the bounds of reality given how Teresa Guidice went on national TV flaunting all the cash she had while doing illegal stuff lol

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I know this is all part of Elektra's redemption arc (as well as some "it's the last season so let's just go nuts") but I still love that she is sharing her wealth with everyone. It's about time someone bought some new furniture for Blanca's place! Obviously Elektra is being reckless because she thinks she's invincible now, but I was just glad that Blanca got a new dining room table. Now if only we can get Elektra to spring for a few cans of paint to freshen up that apartment.

I don't care how silly it was that Blanca, Elektra, and Lulu tried on wedding gowns while they were shopping for Angel's dress. It was still fun to see! And it was so nice to see them all happy, angst-free, and just having fun. There has already been so much death and sadness this season that it was really great to have an episode with some regular fun and laughter. And if you can't have fun going wedding dress shopping, having a spa day, and throwing a bachelorette party, that's ain't right.

The bridal shop owner was an ass, and I felt bad about how much harder it was to buy a dress back in the day. If that happened now, you could just find out the name of the designer and the style of the dress, do a quick google, and buy the exact same dress from any number of other stores. It still would have been doable to find the same dress elsewhere in 1994, but it would have taken a lot more legwork and phone calls.

I know that Papi wants to do right by his son and I totally support that. But I can see why Angel totally freaked out at the thought of becoming a mother overnight. I'm sure she will end up coming around, but it was a pretty huge bombshell to get dropped on her so I get that she needs some time to take it all in. I'm guessing that once she sobers up, has some time to process all that information, and gets used to the idea that Papi has a son, she will end up being okay with it.

[Crashcourse]

Elektra was too over the top and careless for me, and it was stupid of her to arrange the heist of the dresses because you know it'll come back to her.  I fear a major downfall for her. 

I loved seeing Papi and his son.  Best part of the episode.

[Surrealist]

47 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

Elektra was too over the top and careless for me, and it was stupid of her to arrange the heist of the dresses because you know it'll come back to her.  I fear a major downfall for her. 

As soon as she yoked herself to the Mob, I thought, "This will not end well for her."

If she doesn't wind up on prison, she will lose all her money, possessions, and wind up back where she started.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Surrealist

[marceline]

8 hours ago, Glade said:

At this point I almost feel like it's going to end like Rosanne did, with Blanca in wheelchair in front of a typewriter surrounded by her old furniture, talking about how none of them ever really became rich or successful, and almost everyone was murdered or incarcerated or died of HIV/AIDS or an overdose, and that the real house couples were actually Papi/Pray Tell and Angel/Lulu.  I definitely miss how grounded season 1 was.

That's exactly how I feel. I feel like all this wedding wish fulfillment as well as a lot of other happy ending stuff we've seen this season is just Blanca's fever dream while she's in the hospital dying of AIDS as her family sits by her bedside telling her stories. It's Pam Ewing's dream or St. Elsewhere's snow globe.

Also, I'd love if the show dialed back on the music montages. We had the dress shopping then the spa day then the bachelorette party. In a shortened final season, it just seems a waste of precious time.

[LittleIggy]

Did you guys see that Lexis (think it was Lexis) commercial with MJ Rodriguez? She was all glam and stunning!

[Crashcourse]

I know Elektra probably wears 5 inch heels, but I swear she looked 7 feet tall standing next to everyone else.   I know she was being generous to everyone but I just did not like her just throwing money around like that.  I wonder if she has a savings account. 

[tennisgurl]

This really has fully turned into a fantasy, complete with dress montages and everything magically working out for everyone with minimal effort and clothes and glamour all dialed up to eleven, I know that the show wants to show LGBTQ people having happy endings and succeeding, but there has to be some kind of middle ground between fantasy porn and misery porn. I can buy that things work out alright for the main cast, that Blanca becomes a nurse and leaves behind a positive legacy before dying of AIDS, that Angel and Pappi stay together, that they lived lives that were hard but ultimately triumphant, but this is just getting silly. I guess I prefer it to every story of a queer person ending in death and misery, but this just goes too far in the other direction. LGBTQ people, especially people of color, really did struggle against a terrible and oppressive society, now and especially then, and pretending otherwise seems like a disservice to the people who worked so hard just to get scraps. Its one of the reasons I was so annoyed with the ending of Ryan Murphy's other recent show, Hollywood, and its over the top perfect happy ending. It cheapens the real struggles and hard won victories of real people by pretending that everything was so easy. In the first season, a lot of the story was about how hard things were for people in their community but also how they found joy in their small victories, in their love for each other, and in the balls, and that was often heartbreaking but also uplifting. Now its all about dresses and fancy food and glamour and not about finding hope in struggle or community or any of the things that pulled me into this show in the first place. 

Did people back then just have some kind of trans clocking sixth sense? How in the world did the dress shop owner tell right away that the ladies were trans? The show does this pretty frequently, it has people figuring out that the women are transwomen really easily just so that they can get revenge on some transphobic jerk, despite the fact that they are all very feminine and I feel like most people wouldn't be able to tell if they were trans or not. We also had a ton of speeches about how representation matters and that its great for transwomen to see a transwomen get married in a big fancy service and that is certainly important but it comes across as so forced. Its clearly the writers talking and not the characters. 

When Pappi's ex's sister showed up I was scared for a second she was going to tell him her sister died of AIDS and that he might have it, but then I realized that of course its a long lost baby because this show can get really soapy at times. Pappi meeting his son was such a nice scene, such a real moment in the midst of all the over the top bombastic camp, but of course it means adding more drama to Angel/Pappi before they can get married. I cant blame Angel for being freaked out, that is certainly a bombshell to get dropped on you, especially before a wedding, but her walking out while he was begging her to stay really sucked. Pappi has always been a stand up guy who has stuck with her through so much, including her dalliances with drugs, but the second he needed her to back him in something she ran for it. As much as I have always liked them, it does usually involve Pappi trying to make her as happy as he can and not so much in the other direction, I hope that Blanca or someone can talk some sense into her. Is she really going to give up a relationship with a great guy who loves her and who she loves back because he wants to do right by his kid? 

Elektra might be a shrewd businesswoman in many ways, but she is a real idiot in a lot of other ways. She has never really done well at thinking through the consequences of her actions beyond what she wants at that very moment. Its like when she was all shocked when her long time client dumped her when she got the surgery to become fully biologically female after he told her that he would dump her if she got the surgery to become biologically female. Its not that her getting the surgery was wrong, but she should have squirreled her money away and planned for her meal ticket to ditch her, not just doing it and hoping it would work out with no back up plan. Its the same now that she's in with the mob, no way does this end well. 

[Guest]

Ok... I...well. I have to applaud the show for being totally unafraid to jump the shark and fully galloping into fan fiction. I get what the writers are trying to do. I know that trans women of color often face unending misery and especially in the 80s/90s. I understand the impulse to want to give the characters an oasis of happiness despite realism. But what’s being lost in that is the tactility of the characters. We get scene after scene of blatant fan service (what even was that weird montage of the four of them posing in the bridal gowns? Who were they looking at? They were all just staring off into space looking in four different directions, silently voguing? I guess the fourth wall goes out the window if costume porn is involved). I’m not saying that everyone has to suffer to be realistic, but none of the cast feels like real people anymore. I can maybe buy Electra’s arc in the sense of her building a phone sex empire, but having a butler and renting out a spa and robbing a bridal store and hosting a whole banquet for basically half the ballroom scene?  She’s not a Bond mistress. And I’m supposed to believe Blanca just swans around and basks in Elektra’s wealth? Maybe Angel and Lulu, but Blanca is too humble. I feel like I’m rambling on this point but it’s just underwhelming in its attempt to deliver wish fulfillment in the laziest way possible. What made the show compelling was love, not fantasy. Any singular plot of any character this season would be believable, but taken together just almost mocks the show's origins. It’s just an overstuffed mess of fan service. There’s happy endings and then there’s...whatever this is. I don’t like it because it conflates a satisfying conclusion and character happiness with ridiculous wealth and success. It’s still not a great message if you can only be happy if you somehow magically achieve the unattainable. 

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

This really has fully turned into a fantasy, complete with dress montages and everything magically working out for everyone with minimal effort and clothes and glamour all dialed up to eleven, I know that the show wants to show LGBTQ people having happy endings and succeeding, but there has to be some kind of middle ground between fantasy porn and misery porn. I can buy that things work out alright for the main cast, that Blanca becomes a nurse and leaves behind a positive legacy before dying of AIDS, that Angel and Pappi stay together, that they lived lives that were hard but ultimately triumphant, but this is just getting silly. I guess I prefer it to every story of a queer person ending in death and misery, but this just goes too far in the other direction. LGBTQ people, especially people of color, really did struggle against a terrible and oppressive society, now and especially then, and pretending otherwise seems like a disservice to the people who worked so hard just to get scraps. Its one of the reasons I was so annoyed with the ending of Ryan Murphy's other recent show, Hollywood, and its over the top perfect happy ending. It cheapens the real struggles and hard won victories of real people by pretending that everything was so easy. In the first season, a lot of the story was about how hard things were for people in their community but also how they found joy in their small victories, in their love for each other, and in the balls, and that was often heartbreaking but also uplifting. Now its all about dresses and fancy food and glamour and not about finding hope in struggle or community or any of the things that pulled me into this show in the first place. 

Not in this season! Lol. The tone is all over the place even within this episode - Papi is sobbing over his long lost son while Angel & co. sit in the spa and get lap dances after a luxurious banquet. Next week we’ll go back to Pray dying and then the finale will be Electra buying a private island for Blanca or something. Trying to balance out one extreme with the other is just making the entire season look ridiculous and feels very cheap. The tone is dictated by the storyline of the week instead of following any narrative flow that would make it feel earned or real. But you captured what I was trying to say in my first paragraph perfectly.

Re: are so many 1990s cis people really able to detect trans women on the spot, the bridal shop owner's repulsion was an excuse to have Elektra read him, an homage to when she chewed out the housewife in the restaurant last season, which became one of the most viral moments of the show. 

16 hours ago, Juneau Gal said:

Angel has been insufferably selfish this season. I understand that the news of Papi’s son would be a bit to take in and the timing was not optimal, BUT to walk out as Papi was on his knees begging, a man who has stuck by her 100% through it all, Nope, that’s not good. 

Angel has been an awful girlfriend lately. I felt terrible for Papi (and as much as I want to eye roll the soapy child twist, I remind myself it happened to Karamo irl!). I wish shows would realize that giving us soft, emotionally available male characters doesn’t equate to making them live-in butlers who acquiesce to their partner’s every whim. Papi deserves the same unconditional support he gives. You shouldn’t have to beg your partner to “let” you raise your child.  Angel Curiel really acted his ass off this episode. I think Papi picked a bad time to tell her about his kid at 4 AM when she was coming home drunk from the strip club and she probably just needs some time to sleep it off and process it. But of course he’s a secret dad - he and Angel are the poster children for aspirational heteronormative assimilation, so obviously they need an instant kid. I guess the aunt is going to decide she doesn’t feel like raising her nephew after all because Angel is just so perfect. But I digress. 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Guest

[Blakeston]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Did people back then just have some kind of trans clocking sixth sense? How in the world did the dress shop owner tell right away that the ladies were trans? The show does this pretty frequently, it has people figuring out that the women are transwomen really easily just so that they can get revenge on some transphobic jerk, despite the fact that they are all very feminine and I feel like most people wouldn't be able to tell if they were trans or not. We also had a ton of speeches about how representation matters and that its great for transwomen to see a transwomen get married in a big fancy service and that is certainly important but it comes across as so forced. Its clearly the writers talking and not the characters. 

This series has really driven home the message that trans women deserve representation, but only if they're feminine-looking enough to pass for cisgender.

You'd think that with all of these "the girls get clocked" plotlines, they'd throw in one woman who might actually have been clocked during that time period. But apparently putting a trans woman with a masculine jaw on TV is just a bridge too far.

I was really hoping that there might be some women in that huge bridal shower scene who couldn't easy pass in real life - but if there were, I didn't see them.

[Crashcourse]

Elektra was so much taller than the other women, and she's angularly built, so I could understand why the bridal shop owner thought she was trans.  In no way did that excuse his behavior though.  

[Juneau Gal]

What helped the first two seasons to be cohesive is that there was an “outsider” who was used as a thread to reflect the way the ballroom scene was seen and the struggles of the people within. First season was Stan and the second was Fredricka. The seasons flowed with episodes building on each other. This season has thrown that all out with these random episodes that have little to no connection with each other. It astonishing to me that the show runners/writers apparently have no idea what made the show beloved by the viewers OR, and this is probably closer to the truth, the show runners/writers couldn’t care less about their viewers and are just playing out their own individual fantasies. Either way, it’s a damn shame and a sad last season for a show that meant so much to so many. 

[RealReality]

20 hours ago, AgentRXS said:

This episode went way too far into fantasy land for my tastes.  It's feast or famine with this show---either everyone is suffering or they are getting unrealistic opportunities. I wish I lived in Pose's version of 1994.

I was thinking the timeline for Papi's son was a little funny,but then I remembered Season 1 ended in 1988 and Season 2 picked up in 1990 so I guess he was supposed to be born in between seasons. Okay. Such soapiness.

 

I loved it.  You're right that the show tends to go fairytale or impossibility dark.  But I'm happy to see some of my favorite characters thrive in such opulence.  

Elektra in Every. Single. Outfit. So regal, so gorgeous.  I mean, its not the one look it's every look!  

I'll have to look it up but I wonder if there are a Cadre of designers who fight to make outfits for Elektra.  I meant tonight was a feast for the eyes.  I cannot think of a single look that failed.  

I love seeing elektra rich and regal even thought it's pure marshmallow fantasy.  

I also got all verklempt with Papis son.  I'm sad for papi but for angel to raise a son....I think that would be hard even if she wasn't newly sober.  

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

This series has really driven home the message that trans women deserve representation, but only if they're feminine-looking enough to pass for cisgender.

You'd think that with all of these "the girls get clocked" plotlines, they'd throw in one woman who might actually have been clocked during that time period. But apparently putting a trans woman with a masculine jaw on TV is just a bridge too far.

I was really hoping that there might be some women in that huge bridal shower scene who couldn't easy pass in real life - but if there were, I didn't see them.

I feel like that could be...Olivia.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Blakeston said:

This series has really driven home the message that trans women deserve representation, but only if they're feminine-looking enough to pass for cisgender.

You'd think that with all of these "the girls get clocked" plotlines, they'd throw in one woman who might actually have been clocked during that time period.

That's probably one of Pose's biggest failures - its glorification of cis beauty standards and its refusal to self-critique its own casting process. Internalizing and prioritizing acceptance and appeal to people in the majority (cis folks, in this case) affects how you perceive those in your own community. You end up with a cast full of models/actresses who not only pass, but fully exemplify hyper femininity. Even the smallest roles are played by runway models (see: Laith Ashley and Leyna Bloom, who each barely spoke but were cast as background eye candy). I get that it's TV and TV demands pretty, but it's started to feel disingenuous when they've repeatedly insisted on clocking plots. There's a real missed opportunity to acknowledge the privilege of these characters by pretending they face the same public scrutiny as trans folks who actually don't pass. It displays a very meta lack of self-awareness, because though the initial storylines themselves strove for authenticity, the casting reaffirms the superiority of a very narrow, privileged trans experience (namely, that you can only be happy/successful or make it in The Industry through being conventionally attractive by cis standards).

Edited May 25, 2021 by Guest

[ItCouldBeWorse]

20 hours ago, Surrealist said:

The ladies on the show can all pass.

Once Elektra stands up, her height might have made people wonder, but that's the only thing I can think of.  If the owner had seen Angel in any of the wedding dresses, there's no way he would have been suspicious.

19 hours ago, buttersister said:

I was seesawing between enjoying the fantasy and thinking the FBI was coming for Electra. 

19 hours ago, Juneau Gal said:

The character development has been so off this season. Elektra has always been greedy, but she’s too smart to ever get herself mobbed up. That is not going to end well and I don’t want that for her. 

Yes!  Now we know why the NYC police were leaning on her.  I will be shocked if this doesn't all come crashing down on her.  When she laid out her entire criminal enterprise in front of her family and her gigolo, I was wondering if he would keep her mob affiliation secret, and then when she summarily dismissed him, I wondered even more if he will be her downfall.

11 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

Elektra was too over the top and careless for me, and it was stupid of her to arrange the heist of the dresses because you know it'll come back to her.  I fear a major downfall for her. 

Plus, it is annoying that Elektra is so upset about Lulu and Angel doing cocaine, but has no qualms about laundering drug money.  Yeah, if not her, then someone else would do it, but still.  It sends a terrible message to her children.  Blanca seems like the type of person who would not want to benefit from drug money.

19 hours ago, buttersister said:

Oy. Papi stuck with Angel through everything. Looks like the drinks and the drugs are messing her up to here. Maybe her mother should be paying  more attention to Angel than to LuLu.

19 hours ago, Juneau Gal said:

Angel has been insufferably selfish this season. I understand that the news of Papi’s son would be a bit to take in and the timing was not optimal, BUT to walk out as Papi was on his knees begging, a man who has stuck by her 100% through it all, Nope, that’s not good.

Raising a kid is real work, and also means you are not the center of attention anymore.  Papi is a pretty selfless individual.  Angel is not.  I have the feeling that if Angel had somehow impregnated a girl in her youth and the kid showed up, Papi would welcome him as the child of the woman he loved, and because he has a keen sense of responsibility.  He enjoys taking care of people.  Angel enjoys being taken care of.

11 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The bridal shop owner was an ass, and I felt bad about how much harder it was to buy a dress back in the day. If that happened now, you could just find out the name of the designer and the style of the dress, do a quick google, and buy the exact same dress from any number of other stores. It still would have been doable to find the same dress elsewhere in 1994, but it would have taken a lot more legwork and phone calls.

Did anyone else think that the dress Angel chose was one of their least favorites?  I didn't think that the stiff, asymmetric top of the bodice would be  particularly flattering to anyone.

Edited May 25, 2021 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 5/23/2021 at 11:38 PM, AgentRXS said:

This episode went way too far into fantasy land for my tastes. 

The biggest part of the fantasy was that Papi and Angel will be granted a marriage license in 1994.

Blanca and Elektra made a big deal about how Angel and Papi's wedding would be a first.  Now, that either implies that no man had ever asked a transgender woman to marry him before, or that the laws in NYC had recently changed to permit such a marriage.

Wikipedia says: "New York State and New York City both passed legislation in 2014 to ease the process for changing sex on the birth certificate, eliminating the requirement for proof of surgery."  Therefore, only Elektra would be able to obtain a birth certificate showing she was female.  And gay marriage wasn't legal in NY until 2014 either, so I don't get how everyone thinks this will be so simple.

Spoiler

And this was before I saw next week's preview.  However, I predict that the marriage license clerk is going to choose to ignore the gender designation on Angel's passport.  I just don't know how Angel and Papi had no concerns about this.

 

On 5/24/2021 at 3:24 AM, Glade said:

For a second I almost thought Elektra was going to tell this group of transwomen that she would pay for the gender-affirming surgeries of everyone who wanted them, which would be a huge gift, much more then dresses.  You'd think she would be offering that at least to the transwomen in her family right now, since the lack of gender-affirming healthcare and it's great expense was often a more pressing concern then clothes and furniture.  But we've left that subject behind even though it was talked about a great deal in season one.  

I kind of thought that for a fleeting second, but that would be too unrealistic even for this show for many reasons.  Also, it would send the message that a transwoman isn't really a woman unless she has bottom surgery.  It was something that Angel wanted when she thought that Stan was only into her because she had something "extra", but Papi clearly sees her as a complete woman, so she doesn't need surgery anymore.

Edited May 25, 2021 by ItCouldBeWorse

[txhorns79]

So Elektra is throwing thousands around for new furniture for Blanca, but doesn't think to pay someone to paint that dingy apartment? 

45 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

And gay marriage wasn't legal in NY until 2014, either,  So I don't get how everyone thinks this will be so simple.

This is something I really do not get.  Is it just assumed by everyone that Angel and Papi will being having a commitment ceremony of some kind without any legal force behind it?  Or does everyone really think that they will be getting a marriage license?  No one has mentioned that obvious point, and I can't really believe not a single member of that group has thought about it. 

 

59 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I will be shocked if this doesn't all come crashing down on her.  When she laid out her entire criminal enterprise in front of her family and her gigolo, I was wondering if he would keep her mob affiliation secret, and then when she summarily dismissed him, I wondered even more if he will be her downfall.

The whole thing is ridiculous.  Elektra is either really, really dumb or stunningly naive to think getting into bed with the mafia is going to end well for her.  Even presuming she doesn't end up dead or in jail, her crazy spending is going to exact a toll at some point and I doubt she'll be able to get out of it. 

[tennisgurl]

So now that this week we had a forty minute Madonna music video, so what will we get next week? Pray slowing succumbing to AIDS followed by a shopping montage where everyone Vogues at the camera? Consistent tones? Never heard of them. You never know what your going to get here, its going to be horrible sadness or self insert fanfic, no middle ground. 

4 hours ago, Blakeston said:

This series has really driven home the message that trans women deserve representation, but only if they're feminine-looking enough to pass for cisgender.

 

Yeah that is something that has increasingly bothered me about the show. Every major trans woman character is very beautiful and cis passing, and I can understand some of the women being able to pass as cis women, especially Angel who's whole story is often about her looks, but everyone needs to be so glamourous that it can feel like its erasing trans woman who are not so traditionally feminine looking or cannot pass as cis because, as much as this show wants to be about representation, they only want the traditionally pretty people on their TV. Having people clock these beautiful very traditionally feminine cis passing women just brings more attention to the fact. 

[RealReality]

While angel may have looked like an asshole I cannot imagine the emotions she'd have.  And how much true pain that would bring particularly given how fragile and vulnerable she is.  

Had the child been a little girl it might be different but given angels situation I think that would be really hard.  

I don't know how else papi could have done it.  No one here is at fault, IMO.  

[Surrealist]

Initially I was expecting the bridal boutique owner to turn down Electra because of her Mob ties. Not because he clocked her. That came out of left field for me.

I can more readily see an upper crust bridal boutique looking down its nose at Mob money. 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Surrealist

[Hiyo]

Quote

pretending they face the same public scrutiny as trans folks who actually don't pass.

Hasn't there been something of a running plot where Blanca doesn't pass as much as the others do? Granted, much of that was shade thrown at her by the other women, but still.

With regards to the idea of insert fan-fic by the writers or the writers speaking out through the characters...they've been doing it since the show started, but it hasn't been an issue I feel because the previous seasons were better overall. But as this season is a bit weaker, it has been more noticeable.

I mean, take this bit of dialogue from this episode:

Elektra: She [Angel] will be the first. The first from a community that has been excluded from happily ever after.

I mean, did we really need her saying something we already know? Was it made for casual viewers who just started watching this season who weren't aware how things were back then not just for trans women, but LGBT+ people in general? I know Ryan Murphy shows are sometimes as subtle as a shovel to the face, but comments like this, on a show like this, just seem a bit unnecessary. It would work on a show like Blue Bloods, I guess, if they introduced a trans character who was getting married, but here it just seems superfluous. We know what this show is about and what it means for these characters to get certain "wins" in life that this community doesn't normally get, we don't need it spelt out for us.

[hoodooznoodooz]

12 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Did you guys see that Lexus (think it was Lexus) commercial with MJ Rodriguez? She was all glam and stunning!

Yes!!!! I rewound three times just to see her. She looked great and made the car look great.

[hoodooznoodooz]

7 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

Elektra was so much taller than the other women, and she's angularly built, so I could understand why the bridal shop owner thought she was trans.  In no way did that excuse his behavior though.  

I think no one would clock these women if we were looking at headshots. But Elektra is very tall, even if she were a man, she’d tower over everyone. Blanca and Elektra also have very broad shoulders.

[Glade]

6 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

 

  Reveal spoiler

And this was before I saw next week's peview.  However, I predict that the marriage license clerk is going to choose to ignore the gender designation on Angel's passport.  I just don't know how Angel and Papi had oh

 It was something that Angel wanted when she thought that Stan was into her because she had something "extra", but Papi clearly sees her as a complete woman, so she doesn't need surgery anymore.

 

Of course not every transgender individual experiences genital dysphoria or wants/is a candidate for bottom surgery, and it shouldn't be seen as a requirement or prerequisite for anything.  However, I remember it being the opposite: Angel wanted the surgery for herself, but Stan was hung up on fetishizing her penis, just like Electra's sugar daddy. Regardless, it's entirely possible that Angel already had bottom surgery in the 2 years between S2-S3 when she and Papi were making bank, we don't know unless it's directly mentioned. 

[DrSparkles]

5 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I think no one would clock these women if we were looking at headshots. But Elektra is very tall, even if she were a man, she’d tower over everyone. Blanca and Elektra also have very broad shoulders.

Elektra also has very big hands (as do I, 🤷‍♀️). Ryan Murphy is the king of running out of steam in series IMO. Starts with a bang, goes out with a whimper.

[Blakeston]

10 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

This is something I really do not get.  Is it just assumed by everyone that Angel and Papi will being having a commitment ceremony of some kind without any legal force behind it?  Or does everyone really think that they will be getting a marriage license?  No one has mentioned that obvious point, and I can't really believe not a single member of that group has thought about it. 

Angel and Papi were planning a quickie city hall wedding, so they must be planning to legally get married.

It makes zero sense - the characters are acknowledging that getting legally married has never been an option for trans women before, so why are they assuming that Angel will be the first?

Clearly the writers want us to get our hopes up for the most perfect wedding ever, only to feel crestfallen at the thought that the system would be cruel enough to deny it to them. Do they think we're so dumb that we wouldn't anticipate this?

9 hours ago, RealReality said:

While angel may have looked like an asshole I cannot imagine the emotions she'd have.  And how much true pain that would bring particularly given how fragile and vulnerable she is.  

Had the child been a little girl it might be different but given angels situation I think that would be really hard.  

I don't know how else papi could have done it.  No one here is at fault, IMO.  

Agreed, it's just a terrible situation. The one person who's at fault is the one we never met - Marisol. Keeping a child's existence a secret from the father is bad enough (outside of cases of abuse). But when the mother is a drug addict with an extremely limited support network, deliberately keeping the father out of the picture is just unconscionable.

I'm trying to remember. Did the show ever explain how Papi came to be so enmeshed in the queer community?

[NowVoyager]

21 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Did you guys see that Lexis (think it was Lexis) commercial with MJ Rodriguez? She was all glam and stunning!

 

9 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Yes!!!! I rewound three times just to see her. She looked great and made the car look great.

 

[12catcrazy]

Ok - so now I have to put my two cents in.   Yeah, have to agree that this was really over the top (but fun) fantasy porn here.  Top Tier Wedding Gowns, private Spa services, new furniture (where was the badly needed paint job for Blanca's apt?), male strippers - I'm a 63 year old woman and I was drooling!  It was fun seeing our gang getting such good things but after one of Elecktra's speeches, the first thing that popped into my head was "Pride goeth before a fall".   Elektra is way full of too, too, much pride and it's gonna bite her in the ass.  Going in with mob guys, oh no, no, no.    But man!  I could not get enough of Elektra's outfits!   All straight out of 60s, 70s, 80s Vogue.   The makeup, the hair, the JEWELS.   Swoon....

Blah, to the Papi kid drama.   Seems to be a trope everywhere now - the stand-up guy with the child he didn't know about.  Since the show seems to be doing fantasy fulfillment here, I guess that Papi's ultimate fantasy was to have a "real" family, and he wouldn't be able to have that with Angel (bio kids anyway).  Bring this little boy into the mix and when Angel comes around to the idea - well Papi will get his dream.  

And just a comment to the "clocked" thing:  back in the 70s, my sister and I used to go to the original Lime Lite club in Montreal.  We used to like to go during the week as it was mostly Gay people in there and we were left alone (and BTW, my sister was underage, but nobody ever checked our ID).  I used to gasp at the gorgeous women I'd see dancing away - and again, the clothes, hair, and makeup - I couldn't ever think I'd be able to compare in beauty to these visions.   Then, I'd see one of these gorgeous creatures headed to the bathrooms - and without exception, it would be to the men's room.   Clothes may make the woman, but the law was the law.    So I'd begin to look a bit closer - and I don't care how beautiful the person looked, the usual giveaways were hands, feet, and adams apples.   Maybe adams apples can be made smaller in some way, but your hands and feet are pretty much what you're stuck with.   Maybe that is how the "clocking" happens... 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 5/25/2021 at 12:43 AM, Surrealist said:

I can more readily see an upper crust bridal boutique looking down its nose at Mob money. 

Perhaps, but that would seem to carry  a huge risk of reprisal.  Owner was really lucky that Elektra didn't want him roughed up.  He'll presumably be covered by insurance for his (wholesale) financial loss.

When all the girls were offered bridal gowns for the wedding, I did wonder if that wouldn't somewhat detract from Angel's happiness, as it's usually a big no-no for anyone else to wear white, or at least a white gown at a wedding (you hear of jealous mothers-in-law doing this to compete with the bride!)  So I guess we have to give props to Angel for being willing to share her joy with her sisters.  (I don't see Blanca or Elektra doing this, though; Elektra will want something completely different from everyone else so that she will be another center of attention, and Blanca will want to look like the mother of the bride.)

15 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

new furniture (where was the badly needed paint job for Blanca's apt?),

Blanca acted like someone was stealing her old furniture, until Elektra revealed the gift of new furniture.  What did she think was actually happening in that scene?

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Hiyo]

I imagine at Elektra’s wedding, she would make a Strangé-from-Boomerang style entrance.

[qtpye]

On 5/24/2021 at 12:23 AM, LittleIggy said:

I can’t believe that fat toad bridal gallery owner took one look at our lovely ladies and clocked all of them as trans-women. I loved all of them trying on the gowns. Once again Dominique Jackson was outrageously fantastic. Horny has no borders! 😆

 

On 5/24/2021 at 12:38 AM, AgentRXS said:

Yeah, just like I am supposed to believe healthy looking and plump in the right places Lulu is in the throes of a crack addiction. 😒

 

On 5/24/2021 at 1:18 AM, Surrealist said:

I thought the same: how did the bridal gallery owner know they were trans immediately?

His reaction to them was realistic because that's how he would have behaved toward transwomen in that time period. Hell, there are people who still treat transwomen terribly and are violent toward them.

The ladies on the show can all pass. The owner's overreaction toward them right off bat felt a bit out of left field for me.

ETA: I would love for Lulu to have a happy ending, or some more screentime. I want to know more about her, but that's not likely going to happen.

 

On 5/24/2021 at 2:08 AM, Juneau Gal said:

Angel has been insufferably selfish this season. I understand that the news of Papi’s son would be a bit to take in and the timing was not optimal, BUT to walk out as Papi was on his knees begging, a man who has stuck by her 100% through it all, Nope, that’s not good. AND when she’s was earlier in the episode telling him he wasn’t rich? Bitch, please, he has you living in a great apartment; from where you all started out, Papi is richer than you could have ever dreamed. 
The character development has been so off this season. Elektra has always been greedy, but she’s too smart to ever get herself mobbed up. That is not going to end well and I don’t want that for her. 

 

On 5/24/2021 at 5:28 AM, Blakeston said:

Agreed. I don't think the writers wanted the audience to put much thought into this, and they figured we'd just squeal at the sight of the characters trying on all those dresses.

But honestly, I kept thinking, "Man oh man, are these characters stupid!"

First there's Elektra. In the first episode, the police warned her that Giuliani was after the mafia and the sex industry, and threatened to search her home and her books. (Which is why she had to get rid of the suitcase.)

So now she's living life in open, outrageous extravagance, and meeting with the mafiosos in her home, and arranging for the dress heist - which would be so easy to tie back to her?

Her behavior is just as clueless as it was in season 1, when she assumed that Christopher Meloni's character would be fine with her having gender surgery, and would let her keep the apartment and clothes.

And Angel and Papi were planning to have a city hall marriage, even though the preview for next week

  Hide contents

confirms that Angel is still legally regarded as male. How the hell did they think they could get city hall to approve - by asking really nicely?

 

 

On 5/24/2021 at 10:44 AM, Surrealist said:

As soon as she yoked herself to the Mob, I thought, "This will not end well for her."

If she doesn't wind up on prison, she will lose all her money, possessions, and wind up back where she started.

 

 

 

 

 

22 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

I know Elektra probably wears 5 inch heels, but I swear she looked 7 feet tall standing next to everyone else.   I know she was being generous to everyone but I just did not like her just throwing money around like that.  I wonder if she has a savings account. 

 

20 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

This really has fully turned into a fantasy, complete with dress montages and everything magically working out for everyone with minimal effort and clothes and glamour all dialed up to eleven, I know that the show wants to show LGBTQ people having happy endings and succeeding, but there has to be some kind of middle ground between fantasy porn and misery porn. I can buy that things work out alright for the main cast, that Blanca becomes a nurse and leaves behind a positive legacy before dying of AIDS, that Angel and Pappi stay together, that they lived lives that were hard but ultimately triumphant, but this is just getting silly. I guess I prefer it to every story of a queer person ending in death and misery, but this just goes too far in the other direction. LGBTQ people, especially people of color, really did struggle against a terrible and oppressive society, now and especially then, and pretending otherwise seems like a disservice to the people who worked so hard just to get scraps. Its one of the reasons I was so annoyed with the ending of Ryan Murphy's other recent show, Hollywood, and its over the top perfect happy ending. It cheapens the real struggles and hard won victories of real people by pretending that everything was so easy. In the first season, a lot of the story was about how hard things were for people in their community but also how they found joy in their small victories, in their love for each other, and in the balls, and that was often heartbreaking but also uplifting. Now its all about dresses and fancy food and glamour and not about finding hope in struggle or community or any of the things that pulled me into this show in the first place. 

Did people back then just have some kind of trans clocking sixth sense? How in the world did the dress shop owner tell right away that the ladies were trans? The show does this pretty frequently, it has people figuring out that the women are transwomen really easily just so that they can get revenge on some transphobic jerk, despite the fact that they are all very feminine and I feel like most people wouldn't be able to tell if they were trans or not. We also had a ton of speeches about how representation matters and that its great for transwomen to see a transwomen get married in a big fancy service and that is certainly important but it comes across as so forced. Its clearly the writers talking and not the characters. 

When Pappi's ex's sister showed up I was scared for a second she was going to tell him her sister died of AIDS and that he might have it, but then I realized that of course its a long lost baby because this show can get really soapy at times. Pappi meeting his son was such a nice scene, such a real moment in the midst of all the over the top bombastic camp, but of course it means adding more drama to Angel/Pappi before they can get married. I cant blame Angel for being freaked out, that is certainly a bombshell to get dropped on you, especially before a wedding, but her walking out while he was begging her to stay really sucked. Pappi has always been a stand up guy who has stuck with her through so much, including her dalliances with drugs, but the second he needed her to back him in something she ran for it. As much as I have always liked them, it does usually involve Pappi trying to make her as happy as he can and not so much in the other direction, I hope that Blanca or someone can talk some sense into her. Is she really going to give up a relationship with a great guy who loves her and who she loves back because he wants to do right by his kid? 

Elektra might be a shrewd businesswoman in many ways, but she is a real idiot in a lot of other ways. She has never really done well at thinking through the consequences of her actions beyond what she wants at that very moment. Its like when she was all shocked when her long time client dumped her when she got the surgery to become fully biologically female after he told her that he would dump her if she got the surgery to become biologically female. Its not that her getting the surgery was wrong, but she should have squirreled her money away and planned for her meal ticket to ditch her, not just doing it and hoping it would work out with no back up plan. Its the same now that she's in with the mob, no way does this end well. 

 

15 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

That's probably one of Pose's biggest failures - its glorification of cis beauty standards and its refusal to self-critique its own casting process. Internalizing and prioritizing acceptance and appeal to people in the majority (cis folks, in this case) affects how you perceive those in your own community. You end up with a cast full of models/actresses who not only pass, but fully exemplify hyper femininity. Even the smallest roles are played by runway models (see: Laith Ashley and Leyna Bloom, who each barely spoke but were cast as background eye candy). I get that it's TV and TV demands pretty, but it's started to feel disingenuous when they've repeatedly insisted on clocking plots. There's a real missed opportunity to acknowledge the privilege of these characters by pretending they face the same public scrutiny as trans folks who actually don't pass. It displays a very meta lack of self-awareness, because though the initial storylines themselves strove for authenticity, the casting reaffirms the superiority of a very narrow, privileged trans experience (namely, that you can only be happy/successful or make it in The Industry through being conventionally attractive by cis standards).

 

15 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Once Elektra stands up, her height might have made people wonder, but that's the only thing I can think of.  If the owner had seen Angel in any of the wedding dresses, there's no way he would have been suspicious.

Yes!  Now we know why the NYC police were leaning on her.  I will be shocked if this doesn't all come crashing down on her.  When she laid out her entire criminal enterprise in front of her family and her gigolo, I was wondering if he would keep her mob affiliation secret, and then when she summarily dismissed him, I wondered even more if he will be her downfall.

Plus, it is annoying that Elektra is so upset about Lulu and Angel doing cocaine, but has no qualms about laundering drug money.  Yeah, if not her, then someone else would do it, but still.  It sends a terrible message to her children.  Blanca seems like the type of person who would not want to benefit from drug money.

Raising a kid is real work, and also means you are not the center of attention anymore.  Papi is a pretty selfless individual.  Angel is not.  I have the feeling that if Angel had somehow impregnated a girl in her youth and the kid showed up, Papi would welcome him as the child of the woman he loved, and because he has a keen sense of responsibility.  He enjoys taking care of people.  Angel enjoys being taken care of.

Did anyone else think that the dress Angel chose was one of their least favorites?  I didn't think that the stiff, asymmetric top of the bodice would be  particularly flattering to anyone.

 

13 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

So Elektra is throwing thousands around for new furniture for Blanca, but doesn't think to pay someone to paint that dingy apartment? 

This is something I really do not get.  Is it just assumed by everyone that Angel and Papi will being having a commitment ceremony of some kind without any legal force behind it?  Or does everyone really think that they will be getting a marriage license?  No one has mentioned that obvious point, and I can't really believe not a single member of that group has thought about it. 

 

The whole thing is ridiculous.  Elektra is either really, really dumb or stunningly naive to think getting into bed with the mafia is going to end well for her.  Even presuming she doesn't end up dead or in jail, her crazy spending is going to exact a toll at some point and I doubt she'll be able to get out of it. 

I kind of hate that the Mafia is the hero in all of this...an organization that is known to be sexist, homophobic, transphobic, and racist.

I feel like they are setting Electra and the other Trans lady for a fall.

As much as I love Electra's fabulousness, I really hope that she is saving a little money in the bank. She was destitute last time her sugar daddy cut her off.

Also, she knows what drugs have done to her community and now she is helping the drug dealers launder money.

The ladies getting clocked is the equivalent of Hollywood putting glasses on a beautiful woman and then telling us that she is now hideously ugly.

Hell, Angel is considered beautiful and has worked as a successful model even before she was found out.

[Crashcourse]

2 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Owner was really lucky that Elektra didn't want him roughed up.

He looked kind of roughed up to me when he was lying face down on the floor.  So not only would Elektra be in trouble for hiring the henchmen to rob the shop, she would also be accused of hiring them to assault the owner. 

I know she and the other ladies were insulted, but I just thought this was over the top payback for what he said.   They didn't have Yelp back then but she could have just spread the word about how he treats trans women.  

[hoodooznoodooz]

I love how Elektra made a point of finishing her champagne, making the owner bus her glass then tearing into him. She must have a blast with this role.

[mtlchick]

This was the shortest episode of the season time wise and yet it felt the longest to get through.

Elektra is playing with matches, a blow torch AND gasoline at this point with the Mob and assuming that the Mob won't ask something from her that won't affect her family.  

Papi finds out he has a son.  I mean the scene where they meet was sad but at the same time, it's nothing I haven't seen before.  (And I get Papi getting upset that Angel was not here for this, but Angel is in a messed up place too.) 

Blanca gets new furniture from her mother but not a new paint job? 

I hope this is where the show "bottomed out" for the fan service and the last 2 episodes are a lot better. 

 

[justmehere]

One clue to Elektra's coming downfall was her mentioning that her wealth was "permanent." Tempting the fates there. I applaud her wanting to treat her family to extravagance they haven't known, and I don't fault her for being extravagant herself after having gone through some very hard times, but yeah, I hope she's saving a lot of that money. 

As rough as it was to see Angel deny Papi, she is not ready to be a mom. At one point, Blanca was grooming her to take over the family but since then, she has been pretty much in "take" mode (and there are no new kids shown anyway). So if she's self-aware enough to know she's not mom material, that's a good thing, heartbreaking as it is for Papi.

That said, if they write a fantasy situation where she suddenly comes around and is the best mom ever thanks to Blanca's influence and a pep talk from her, I won't complain because Papi will get his happy family. (The marriage license thing needs to be realistic, though, with them maybe opting for a commitment ceremony after that wakeup call in being denied a license.) BTW - Papi has absolutely become a favorite. 

18 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

That's probably one of Pose's biggest failures - its glorification of cis beauty standards and its refusal to self-critique its own casting process. Internalizing and prioritizing acceptance and appeal to people in the majority (cis folks, in this case) affects how you perceive those in your own community. You end up with a cast full of models/actresses who not only pass, but fully exemplify hyper femininity.

I wonder if since this was such new ground - having trans actresses was promoted so heavily as a real breakthrough - it was perhaps necessary to have the ultra-feminine, model-like cast so that the network would even greenlight the show, exactly because it would have a better chance at gaining a foothold with a mostly cis audience. Then, writing Blanca as worrying over being clocked, and it happening to her and others, was a valid effort to portray the real-world issue. The problem is that the two elements don't mix well. They should have - maybe in the 2nd season - brought in someone in a leading role who might not pass so easily. It is a disservice... but then, it's a typical Hollywood problem. Most people don't look like the perfection of lead characters in any Hollywood shows. (Other countries do better with having more average-looking casts.) Frustrating as it may be for being somewhat unrealistic, the fact that this show was produced and they were able to tell these stories is wonderful. The fact that only Billy Porter (deserving as he is) has been recognized at awards time is telling, and even his Emmy was a big deal. There's still a long way to go, but they opened the door, and that's at least something. I hope that trans representation going forward is more than just supporting or sidekick roles, but it may be slow going. I hope I'm wrong.