S12.E14: I Expected a Little Better

[Mrs. Button]

Quote

Let's not forget that he was all over her about the bracelet on the honeymoon, only days into the marriage.

But of course — and his ego was absolutely demolished over the fact she thought it was a necklace. It could absolutely not have been a simple mistake made during a hectic day, no it was a malicious effort to demean him. 

Quote

He always has this look on his face like he has an axe to grind because he's convinced that he gets the same poor treatment from women every time.  He can't see what he's doing to sabotage himself. 

Talk about self-fulfilling prophecies ... 

Quote

You would think that at some point both of these people would look in the mirror and figure out what THEY are doing to put people off and why they haven't been successful at finding a relationship.

Both are COMPLETELY lacking any sort of self-awareness; doesn't seem like either will get any anytime soon. They each seem pretty egotistical in their own way. It's been my experience that until you get a handle on what choices you may have made to get yourself in these dynamics, you will keep getting into them.

Edited April 15, 2021 by Mrs. Button

[Crashcourse]

I wonder how many men in past seasons gave jewelry to their brides on their wedding day.  I was thinking about Jake's bracelet, and wondering if Haley thought it was too much, too soon given that they were strangers who just got married.   Now I'm not saying he was wrong, and his heart might have been in the right place, but I did think it was kind of odd.  I can understand giving a cute trinket of some sort, but spending $800 (if true) ain't cheap.  She might have been embarrassed that she got him a fun hat.  It might have made more sense to do something like that after they've known each other for awhile and decided that they wanted to stay married on Decision Day.  Maybe even a one year anniversary present.    

Edited April 15, 2021 by Crashcourse

[Ilovepie]

16 minutes ago, Mrs. Button said:

But of course — and his ego was absolutely demolished over the fact she thought it was a necklace.

As it should be - it shows she cared so little she didn't even take it out of the box. If she had, she would have known it was a bracelet.

4 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

I wonder how many men in past seasons gave jewelry to their brides on their wedding day. 

I don't think he's the first. I seem to remember someone getting something from Tiffany's which wouldn't exactly be cheap either, but I can't recall who that was.

[humbleopinion]

19 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

 

I don't think he's the first. I seem to remember someone getting something from Tiffany's which wouldn't exactly be cheap either, but I can't recall who that was.

It was Absolutely Brandon Reid.

https://www.tvinsider.com/851084/married-at-first-sight-season-10-episode-4-recap/

 

Michael told Meka he bought her Tiffany jewelry but his Groupon for the store bounced and it didn't come in time for the ceremony.....joking of course..

[candall]

5 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Sometimes people just don't find a person to marry on a prescribed timeline. I'm over 30 and not married; there's nothing wrong with me. I'm just not married. Also, the idea that 38 is too old to be single is region-specific - a 38-year-old single man isn't weird in NYC and other places in the urban northeast. Most of my married friends were over 30 when they married. Societally we really need to normalize finding love at any age (see also: career success. I just read about a 70-year-old man defending his dissertation and I think that is amazing), or not finding it at all. Sometimes people don't get married.

The idea that people, men or women, are washed up or fundamentally flawed if they don't find a spouse before a certain age is ... gross, to me, because it speaks to the way society prioritizes marriage above all else. It's more socially acceptable to be divorced than to never have been married; I think that's fucked up. My brother's godmother never married or had kids; she's a wonderful person with a full, happy life. She's traveled the world, she had a career she loved, she has decades-long friendships (including with my mom!), she helped take care of her parents when they needed it, she has hobbies. Her not being married is a very small part of who she is.

The pressure to find someone on a prescribed timeline has had people out here making terrible decisions that can't be changed (e.g. having a kid with someone awful) or that take a lot of time and money to change (divorce). I know the biological clock is real, but honestly, I know two women who became single parents by choice (adoption through foster care and via sperm bank), and they're much happier than the women I know who were like, well, it's probably not going to work but I don't have time to start over, so here we are. 

Jake has bought into it - he's like "this is my last chance to find love before 40," but for one, no it isn't; this is clearly not going to work out so he'll have another year or two to keep looking. And second, if he finds love at 41 or 45 or 50, so what? It's not less valuable. He might think "I wish I had more time with you," but that doesn't mean whatever love he finds is somehow lesser because he found it after a certain age.

Well said, Empress1, hear hear. I remember my great sense of relief when the time FINALLY came that all the well-meaning relatives stopped bugging me about getting married.  Of course, they stopped because they felt I had reached terminal velocity spinsterhood and they were doing me a kindness to not embarrass me.  LMAO!!  They pitied me and I pitied them right back because I don't think any of them had 1/10th the amazing life I've had.

 

But on to Jake and Haley. . . . 

 

     I've been listening closely to Jake.  I think he's very awkward, socially, but he's aware of that.  In fact, I think one of Jake's best features is that he's pretty self-aware about most things.  He admits that he's afraid a MAFS bride might be his very last chance.

     I also think he's telling the truth when he says he's still open to this thing working out, if only Haley will try.  Poor guy.  He doesn't want to be alone the rest of his life.  I believe he thinks:   "If I can't even make it work with an insta-bride, how am I ever going to get and keep a relationship going the regular way, from first date all the way through Golden Anniversary?"

     Theoretically, with a MAFS spouse, you can start out on second base and skip all those terribly complicated early bits, like meeting, dating, proposing . . . .

 

     It would have been nice to see Jake auto-married to a woman who had the self-confidence and generosity of spirit to coax him along.  With a little sunshine and watering, Jake might have grown into a good and happy husband.  But he sure wasn't going to get that from Haley, who never missed a chance to kick him in the teeth.

     I guess it was her mission to prove, with every misstep, that they'd hooked her up with a LOSER.  How could she be expected to work with such a LOSER?  Not working out?  Not her fault!

     And meanwhile, Haley is tragically short of self-awareness.  Every time anyone points out to her that she may have some responsibility in this clusterfuck, she's aghast.  The tarot card reader, the MAFS staff--god forbid she's following the comment threads.

[gingerandcloves]

4 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I get it, I was expecting a little better too. I stopped watching several weeks ago and just catch up here. 
 Maybe Ryan can join Colton on his Netflix special 

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this. There are a lot of parallels. Because Ryan certainly seems to have a lot of hangups with sex and expressing love that go much deeper than being married to a "stranger". There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a virgin or waiting until you're married for sex, but Ryan seems stuck in first gear without having any plan on shifting past it.

[buttersister]

56 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

Now I'm not saying he was wrong, and his heart might have been in the right place... It might have made more sense to do something like that after they've known each other for awhile and decided that they wanted to stay married on Decision Day.  

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He admits that he's afraid a MAFS bride might be his very last chance.

I suspect these two things are related. He was trying very hard to impress from the jump. Wrong move? Don't know. Wrong bride. For sure.

[bichonblitz]

Erik's sister in law was so right. Your husband should be your ride or die. Your PERSON. Doesn't mean you can't have friends or a job or any hobbies outside of your marriage. But...the marriage comes first. Gin has no clue. She needs another 10 years before she gets it. 

I still don't care for Vinny. When Bri was explaining to him her difficulties when she was younger and feeling alone because of being "too dark skinned" he really didn't give a crap. She was looking for some kind of comfort from him but she didn't get any. Sometimes he has no compassion for her. Sure, he does some nice things but when you get down to caring if your wife is hurting I don't see him doing that.  

Clara's mom was really nice with Ryan. What is his deal, anyway? If he was in a previous relationship for 2 years without having sex or telling his girl he loved her then this is not at all about Clara. This is all about Ryan. 

Haley's mom is as obnoxious just like Haley. One minute of that phone conversation tells us all we need to know about why Haley is the way she is. 

Dr. Pep doesn't care for Haley. Haley kept biting her lips when Pep was talking to her. So distracting. 

 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by bichonblitz

[Hangin Out]

I could see Jake going on this show either because of a whim as I don’t think he’s dated too much, or because of a dare from someone who suggested it as a dare, and Jake saying “why the hell not”.  Haley on the other hand, who thinks she’s the cats meow, is surprising to be on a show of this sort, as she thinks she’s amazing.  Why would she subject herself to this crap?

[gonecrackers]

Didn't Chicago Anthony get Ashley an "A" pendant of some sort?  He dreamed an "A", or did I dream it...

[Devvie]

Haley thinks she's a sophisticated, worldly, "knows how to act, dress, etc." person. But, in reality, she does not possess good manners. Demonstrating genuine appreciation of a gift is Etiquette 101. 

 

[Crashcourse]

53 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

It was Absolutely Brandon Reid.

https://www.tvinsider.com/851084/married-at-first-sight-season-10-episode-4-recap/

 

Michael told Meka he bought her Tiffany jewelry but his Groupon for the store bounced and it didn't come in time for the ceremony.....joking of course..

I had nothing better to do than check Tiffany's website and it looks like that necklace that Brandon bought cost $200.

[Jeanne222]

Clara and Ryan. The more I think about them the more he reminds me of an adolescent boy masterbating for the first time.  Didn’t Clare say she was pleasing him nightly that way?

She deserves much better. He better grow up and stop pretending with the love word!

When Brianna and Vincent have a conversation her education and his lack of really come out.

He wants what he wants regardless of consequences.  That’s not love. 

He’s like a little boy instead of a man. 

I’m kind of curious why Brianna chose MAFS. I think she could do much better on her own. 

[Ilovepie]

59 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

It was Absolutely Brandon Reid.

https://www.tvinsider.com/851084/married-at-first-sight-season-10-episode-4-recap/

 

Michael told Meka he bought her Tiffany jewelry but his Groupon for the store bounced and it didn't come in time for the ceremony.....joking of course..

Oh geez - no wonder I couldn't remember - I must have blocked it!

[Retired at last]

I don't think the issue is a lack of awareness with Haley. She OWNS the fact that she checks out, shuts down, and writes people off at first sight. Apparently, though, she just doesn't accept that those behaviors are unacceptable and immature, rude, and not in the least conducive to being in a relationship. Her own family told Jake that she was a tough nut to crack; her friends told him that she shuts down and to give her space, so these are KNOWN Haley behaviors. The problem is that she thinks that she is so awesome, that those behaviors are fine and anyone would be thrilled to be with her. She thinks she is justified in being rude because she has no chemistry with Jake, so he deserves nothing from her - and she has no sense of decency as a person. When Dr P told her that she was hurtful in her behaviors, she totally rejected that and was pissed that Dr P didn't support HER.  Again, my main question is, "Why was she selected in the first place?" We saw all of these behaviors from the first day of the show, so I find it hard to believe that the "experts" missed it. She is not that good of an actress. Same with Chris and Ginny. Never should have been selected.

[Hangin Out]

2 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

I wonder how many men in past seasons gave jewelry to their brides on their wedding day.  I was thinking about Jake's bracelet, and wondering if Haley thought it was too much, too soon given that they were strangers who just got married.   Now I'm not saying he was wrong, and his heart might have been in the right place, but I did think it was kind of odd.  I can understand giving a cute trinket of some sort, but spending $800 (if true) ain't cheap.  She might have been embarrassed that she got him a fun hat.  It might have made more sense to do something like that after they've known each other for awhile and decided that they wanted to stay married on Decision Day.  Maybe even a one year anniversary present.    

I’m sure he asked the jeweler what was appropriate for his situation.  The jeweler probably suggested a bracelet, as a necklace doesn’t go with every bridal gown.  A bracelet goes with anything.  Plus, an infinity bracelet could have had some diamonds on the design making it $800.  A smart woman would have thanked him and put it on right there.  It would have taken five seconds and  probably was intended to wear at the wedding vows.  He would have been very happy.  My hubs gave me cultured 16 inch pearls that I wore on our wedding day.  I love them and him for thinking of me that day.  Jake must have been very hurt that she didn’t even take the bracelet out.  She robbed him of the joy of giving it to her.  My husband would be very hurt too.  Haley doesn’t get embarrassed.  Haley doesn’t seem to have feelings except for herself.  She reminds me of Molly on seasons past.  COLD.  Her ex husband wound up marrying the sex therapist.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Silver Bells

[Hangin Out]

2 hours ago, Devvie said:

Brilliant.  

I didn’t say that.  Something was wrong.

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

You're quoting me there, not Silver Bells, so thank you!

 

 

 

[Hangin Out]

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Sorry I thought Haley was older.  She still doesn't strike me as someone that's all too into finding a relationship.  I think she did this show precisely because she really isn't cut out for finding or being in a relationship and she wants to fulfill some kind of script for her life based on expectations and keeping up with friends and relatives, not because it's her true desire deep down.

Say what ???  I don’t get it.

[Hangin Out]

22 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

She didn't want to, so she should have returned it asap.  

She didn’t want it?   Why not?  She was getting married.  Only a little brat with no manners would refuse a gift at that time.  Seems she gets off hurting people.

[Crashcourse]

31 minutes ago, Retired at last said:

Again, my main question is, "Why was she selected in the first place?"

Legitimate question about her, but I would ask the same thing about him.

[Hangin Out]

5 hours ago, nutella fitzgerald said:

I don’t understand. After all this, does Clara actually think Ryan would be any good in bed?

He’s gay and that’s it.

[StatisticalOutlier]

21 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Oh, he's determined to show America just who Haley really is and has been: Uninvested from the git-go. Scornful. Insulting (a wedding gift of a $20 HAT?!). Indifferent. And above all, FAKE.

She knew absolutely nothing about this guy but had to give him a gift, and chose to give him something that revealed something about herself (Crimson Tide), maybe as an insight into this person he's marrying in a few minutes and knows nothing about.  I actually rather like that approach, especially compared to a trope like jewelry.

I noticed that when Jake looked disappointedly at the hat, he said, "I'm not a college guy."  Any clues about what that meant?

21 hours ago, Silver Bells said:

If a guy goes to the trouble of picking out a gift, you better well appreciate it. 

Sure, if he picks out a gift for me, taking into account what I might like and what might make me happy.  There was absolutely nothing personal about what he bought her; he would have bought the same thing whether it was Haley or any other applicant to the show.  The only thing it was was expensive, and he made sure she knew it. 

9 hours ago, Silver Bells said:

The bracelet was the final straw.  It was a beautiful gesture on a wedding day.  She could have put it on right then and there for the ceremony.  Instead, she cast it aside like it was nothing. 

She didn't put it on for the ceremony because she thought it was a necklace, and it wouldn't work with her high-neck dress.  And she didn't cast it aside--she opened it right before walking down the aisle, and instead of just leaving it in the room she gave it to her mother for safe-keeping.

39 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

As it should be - it shows she cared so little she didn't even take it out of the box. If she had, she would have known it was a bracelet.

But there was no reason to take it out of the box because she wasn't going to wear it because it wasn't appropriate with her dress, so it would actually be better to leave it in the box as it is.  It turns out she was wrong--it wasn't a necklace.  But I think her assumption was reasonable and acting on it was reasonable, as well. 

8 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

 I find Chris to be repulsive for various reasons,  but I'll be glad when I no longer have to see Jake and his steak and egg, onion eating, looking down his nose like he smells a fart (his), churlish, cave man looking muscle bound ass is no longer on my tv screen. 

*whew* That felt good.  

I can't stand the muscles.  I think he looks ridiculous.  And I wonder if that's part of what Haley doesn't find attractive, because she's more of an athlete who might respect muscles that are there for a reason, instead of vanity.

6 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

Disagree.  Jake wasn't "repulsive" enough to keep Haley from sleeping with him in Vegas. 

She was drunk.

 

8 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

Personally, I think she can do way better than Vincent. He's super insecure and pouty. If Briana decides against pregnancy, he won't be happy. He didn't seem to want to consider adoption, which is his right, of course.

And I assume a requirement for someone whose reason for having children is building a legacy.  Is this a thing?  Building a legacy?  I think Chris said the same thing.  I think it's obnoxious.

[Crashcourse]

Jake is the type of dude that if he took you to an expensive restaurant and you didn't eat all your expensive meal for whatever reason, he would never let you forget it and bring it up ever time there was an argument.   

[Retired at last]

Just now, Crashcourse said:

Jake is the type of dude that if he took you to an expensive restaurant and you didn't eat all your expensive meal for whatever reason, he would never let you forget it and bring it up ever time there was an argument. 

Nah, he would just finish it. No meat will go to waste.

[Empress1]

19 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

And I assume a requirement for someone whose reason for having children is building a legacy.  Is this a thing?  Building a legacy?  I think Chris said the same thing.  I think it's obnoxious.

I often hear people of color talk about building a legacy or leaving a legacy for their children. I think this is largely because our communities were and are systematically denied opportunities to build our own wealth for centuries, so when we do get a chance to build wealth, it's important for us to do so. I am on the record as hating Chris but when he said last episode that he wanted his unborn child to have an inheritance, that's absolutely something I've heard other Black people say. This tends to be particularly true if they are the first people in their families who are in positions to leave something to future generations, which I think might be the case for Vinny although I'm not sure.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Empress1

[Crashcourse]

6 minutes ago, Retired at last said:

Nah, he would just finish it. No meat will go to waste.

But...but...what if it's lobstah? He'd lose his shit. 😅

[Kimboweena]

Sorry if y'all are trying to block Chris and Paige from your minds, but he gave her an infinity necklace before their wedding.  I think she put it on over the necklace she was already wearing.  Later, she showed Chris her infinity tattoo.  Pretty sure she took the coincidence as a "sign from God" that they were meant to be.😄

[LennieBriscoe]

1 hour ago, Silver Bells said:

He’s gay and that’s it.

Ryan does seem to have a "Colton Underwood" vibe.

 

Jake's gift of jewelry might be considered  a cliche, but at least the cliche is one of romance (and he chose the "Infinity" symbol). 

Given the disparate reactions here to Haley and Jacob, I've decided that they're our Primetimer Rohrschach Test!

Edited April 16, 2021 by LennieBriscoe

[princelina]

 

21 hours ago, antfitz said:

 Then maybe she wasn't completely honest with them. I have a feeling she did not tell them she liked to party so much.

If someone like Chris could  slide through the process, then there are many liars that apply for their 15 minutes.

Chris is an uneducated, unattractive douchebag. He is NOT good looking. He does NOT speak well. He is aggressive and has a lousy attitude, BUT he must be able to hide most of it in interviews. 

In Chris' case I think they liked his "rags to riches" story and stopped paying attention after that.  But the clip they showed of him several times before the weddings - "I want a wife who's submissive . . . and a freak" - clearly they heard him say that because I'm pretty sure that's what they gave him 😄   I have a hard time believing that Virginia didn't tell them who she was, considering that from the get-go we have heard that she likes to go out and get drunk, and no husband is going to get in the way of that.  I'm pretty sure she informed us of that before the weddings too!

19 hours ago, Racj82 said:

Reality shows need shorter seasons. Most of them cannot sustain these long seasons.

IMO they don't need shorter seasons - it's the 2 hour episodes that drag.  Go back to 1 hour - I implore all reality shows!

13 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Jacob and Haley.  My husband has terrible taste.  I dress him.  Have for years.  He once bought me a ceramic mushroom for Valentine's day?????  I think it runs in their family.  His sister recently gifted me with a jar of Carrot Cake jam...who knew they made that flavor???  And two packets of Mint Cocoa!  But..They are the nicest, kindest people.

Sometimes you work with what you got!

Agreed!  Mr. P has sartorial issues as well - we have an agreement that he can wear what he wants most of the time,  but if it's an event and I say no, he must listen 😄   (and after our first Christmas together, I came up with the idea that we don't need stuff and shouldn't buy each other gifts, but rather spend the money on something great for a vacation or a house 😈))

10 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

Personally, I think she can do way better than Vincent. He's super insecure and pouty. If Briana decides against pregnancy, he won't be happy. He didn't seem to want to consider adoption, which is his right, of course. IVF and surrogacy are expensive, but that's an option if bio children are desired. 

I blame the experts for pairing a couple where one wants kids yesterday and another is fearful and leaning towards much later.

I agree about Vincent being insecure and pouty, but if he came on this show wanting children, then it was not right to fix him up with someone unsure, not matter her reasons.  If they met naturally and fell in love I would certainly expect him to explore other options, but this is not the case for him, and it's wrong to expect him to back off on his desire for children because his TV wife is scared or unsure.

8 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

Just imagine her reaction if she had been paired with Bennett last season! She would have had a stroke over the yellow sleep dress, and probably every other thing he wore......

Oh I'm dying 😄😄😄😄😄😄 😄😄😄😄   How about her reaction that he only wipes with one square? 😄😄😄😄😄😄 😄😄😄😄 

7 hours ago, spunky said:

Haley is a few steps away from being Chris in female form.

I don't love Haley, but I've got to stick up for her here - she's a snotty bitch but he's a complete sociopath.  Many many steps apart.

6 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I think he does the same thing in reverse to her.  The two of them are constantly sideswiping each other with the veiled insults and it started very early.  In this episode he called her a "diva" for not wanting to swim or something like that at the age of 4, which is not atypical for what is basically a toddler.  

I don't think it was for not wanting to swim, it was for her whole "I don't do what I don't want to do" pride - when her parents took her to softball, she didn't want to wear a helmet - no reason, just didn't, so she refused.  They took her to swim lessons and she didn't feel like getting in the pool - no reason, just didn't, so she refused and lay out on a towel instead (hence the "diva" remark).  In my family that kind of child is called "in need of a good spanking" 😄   (That's what we called a certain cousin of mine - her parent's would say, "She's a pistol" and behind their backs we'd joke that "pistol" means "needs a good spanking" - she's turned into a lovely adult though 😄 )

5 hours ago, Silver Bells said:

Yes to a lot of things.  The thing I don’t agree with is thinking someone has a  relationship problem because they are single at 38.  Some people have hobbies that keep them busy, or are concentrating on their job, or taking care of an elderly family member.  It doesn’t necessarily mean they have a problem because they are 38 and not married.  It may just mean they didn’t feel the need for someone yet.  Lots of people are very content staying single.  Less haggles.  Some may suddenly realize they want children after all and look for a partner.

In my case I always wanted to be married and it just didn't work out until I was 39.  I did have a job I loved, disposable money and time to travel to many places all over the world, so my single time wasn't totally wasted 😄   I used to think of myself like Jerry's girlfriend on Seinfeld, played by Christine Taylor - he liked her but all of his friends were like - No, dude - even though there was nothing wrong with her 😄   I did pick awful guys, and after the last one I bought a copy of the hot new book "He's Just Not That Into You" and it did change my life - and after turning down a few "not for me" types (against my mother's advice) I met Mr. P.  He, in turn, had asked the girl who fixed us up what was wrong with me for still being single at my age!!!  When I found that out I pointed out that he was still single too!!! 😄 

3 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

I don't think he's the first. I seem to remember someone getting something from Tiffany's which wouldn't exactly be cheap either, but I can't recall who that was.

I remember - I'm pretty sure it was Tom and Lily - that he bought her a pearl necklace, but her mother said pearls were unlucky on a wedding day, so she didn't wear it, but she explained to him almost immediately that she loved it but didn't wear it to appease her mother.

1 hour ago, bichonblitz said:

Dr. Pep doesn't care for Haley. Haley kept biting her lips when Pep was talking to her. So distracting. 

The last time a contestant got such dislike from an "expert" was Molly and Jon with "Dr." Jessica - and we know how that ended!  Could there be a Pepper-Jake romance in the MAFS closet?  Enquiring minds want to know!!! 😄 

 

[LennieBriscoe]

36 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Ryan does seem to have a "Colton Underwood" vibe.

StatisticalOutlier, Haley's gift to Jake was a souvenir of her Alma Mater, the University of Alabama. What more this revealed about her, I'm not sure. But it wasn't her 38-year-old spouse's cup of tea,  and why should it have been? Hence, his "I'm not a college guy." Moreover, surely fashion-fussy Haley would have been positively mortified had Jake actually worn the hat! 

Jake's gift of jewelry might be considered  a cliche, but at least the cliche is one of romance (and he chose the "Infinity" symbol). (I will agree with Haley on thinking the item was a necklace because of the presentation; bracelet boxes are different.)

Given the disparate reactions here to Haley and Jacob, I've decided that they're our very own Primetimer Rohrschach Test!

Sorry again for bad posting form.

Edited April 16, 2021 by LennieBriscoe

[buttersister]

I still haven’t gotten over Ryan’s demand that blindfolds be worn at their wedding. You want to, for some bizarro reason, go ahead. (But strike one!) I’d have headed out the door. This isn’t 50 Shades of Ryan.

[Elizzikra]

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When Jake brought it up she should have just owned it and apologized, but instead she got defensive and critical of Jake. She is straight out of Psych 101. She has an absolute inability to accept criticism, she feels compelled to fire back regardless of the strength of her argument and the bottom line is she simply has to win. Whether it’s at go carts, golf, the batting cages, even a simple argument...she needs to win. And as a result she loses sight of everything else. She got so wrapped up in the competition at the batting cages (so much so that she showed up early so she could practice by herself) that she completely lost sight of the real reason for the activity (to spend time together and have fun). And she completely missed the point that Jake was hurt by the fact that, based on her actions, it appeared that she didn’t care about his wedding gift, which he presumably further interpretEd as her not caring about the wedding, or about him. But she just wanted to point out whatever he did that she felt was on a par so she could one up him. 

This. I don't particularly like or dislike either Jake or Haley. They seem like a horrible mismatch and I think they both know. The only thing I can't figure out is why they haven't found some way to ride out this "experiment" in relative peace and friendship.

But the bracelet thing bugged me. Ok - I'll give Haley a pass for thinking it was a necklace and in the rush of being on a tv show and just about to walk down the aisle, not taking it out of the box. I think giving it to her mom for safekeeping was actually a good idea only it would maybe have been wiser to say "mom, tuck this into my honeymoon luggage" instead of having mom tote the thing back to Alabama. Or even - gasp - put it on under the high neck of her dress so she could wear it without messing up her look. But whatever....

My real problem is that Haley herself admits that Jake has brought up that he was hurt by her response to the gift multiple times (900, I think she said to her mom!). And despite her constant claims that she is trying so hard to make things work and find a connection, she hasn't done a single thing to address this one thing that hurt his feelings. A stupid, easy, thing - get the bracelet back and wear it. Or get it back and sit it on the nightstand. Or something. But truly, he kept telling her honestly that it bothered him and she didn't do a thing about it.

And her mother - instead of getting that Jake might be hurt that Haley is so indifferent to his wedding gift to her, she just went right along with Haley's complaint - that she is tired of hearing about it.

For the record, I think it's tacky that Jake kept mentioning the cost too.

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It was Absolutely Brandon Reid.

I remember it! We saw it - it was a Tiffany necklace and it was engraved "Mrs. Reid." I thought it was very sweet and really the only thing Brandon ever did that made me want to like him.

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In my case I always wanted to be married and it just didn't work out until I was 39. 

I didn't get married until I was 45. I wanted to be married but I never wanted to be married to anyone who wanted to be married to me until I met my husband. It wasn't for lack of looking or trying or too invested in my career or whatever. It just plain didn't happen. 

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I remember - I'm pretty sure it was Tom and Lily - that he bought her a pearl necklace, but her mother said pearls were unlucky on a wedding day, so she didn't wear it, but she explained to him almost immediately that she loved it but didn't wear it to appease her mother.

I hope not - I wore a double strand on my wedding day - they were my mother's (I still have my mom, she gifted me the pearls).

[pdlinda]

On 4/14/2021 at 6:13 PM, LennieBriscoe said:

I wish Jake would freakin' shave!

THANK YOU!!  

Between VA's "drowned rat" hair look and Jake's constant "5 o'clock shadow (or is it more 8 o'clock, it's so bad) look it's hard to concentrate on anything else!  Clara's "root rot" with the black roots peeking through is also an epic fail.  Ryan's hair is another story in the style dept; however, it's apparent his grooming habits are important to him.

These are not superficial flaws, IMO.  Each goes to the level of cleanliness and/or personal hygiene a person practices.

[princelina]

19 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

I hope not - I wore a double strand on my wedding day - they were my mother's (I still have my mom, she gifted me the pearls).

Well it wasn't the bride who believed that - it was her mother ( who I'm pretty sure was from another country and had her own superstitions) - the bride merely agreed to the mother's strong feelings and then was quick to relate the story to the groom so that his feelings wouldn't be hurt!

Edited April 16, 2021 by princelina

[Mellybelly]

I think Jake comes across as "no personality" because he's OVER IT.  Haley only shows up for filming and he just can't fake it anymore.  She's so shallow not liking how he dresses and getting mad that he was hurt that she'd made no effort to wear his gift or get it back.  I think he just wants Haley to value him in some way and she obviously doesn't.  I never heard her say "thank you". And  Haley completely left out the truth when talking to her mom and her mom jumped right on the bash Jake train.  I thought the girl was going to spontaneously combust when Dr. Pepper sided with Jake.  Lol

Erik isn't wrong that Virginia doesn't need to be out partying and crashing on guy's couches.  She's married.  She sure doesn't act like it.  Erik's over it.  I'm over it for him.  Virginia does NOT want to be a wife.  Or a mother.  Period.

[princelina]

29 minutes ago, Mellybelly said:

Erik isn't wrong that Virginia doesn't need to be out partying and crashing on guy's couches.  She's married.  She sure doesn't act like it.  Erik's over it.  I'm over it for him.  Virginia does NOT want to be a wife.  Or a mother.  Period.

I agree - Erik comes off as controlling (true) and "know how a marriage should be" (seems obnoxious) but I'd like someone to look at what he thinks a "marriage should be" ~

• wives don't go out drinking and pass out on their friends couches on a regular basis
• if a husband is away for work regularly - then when he is not a wife should prioritize her time with him
• being married = having children

So Erik's a jerk but what he's looking for isn't all that uncommon in the realm of marriage seekers - and as far as Rule #1 goes - he's probably only asking at this point that she doesn't pass out on "guy friends" couches

Until I see that HIS idea of marriage is different than - what?  basically everyone else's idea of marriage - I'm giving him a break in spite of his poor delivery 🙂 

[StatisticalOutlier]

3 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I often hear people of color talk about building a legacy or leaving a legacy for their children.

I was thinking of leaving a legacy in terms of carrying on his name or reputation--his children would do that.  I can see wanting to build wealth in order to leave it to your children, but I don't think that's a reason to have children, which is what it sounded like they were saying to me.

ETA:  Maybe like leaving a legacy to society, in the form of his children?  I'm having trouble wording it.

Edited April 16, 2021 by StatisticalOutlier

[crazychicken]

5 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

She didn't put it on for the ceremony because she thought it was a necklace, and it wouldn't work with her high-neck dress.  And she didn't cast it aside--she opened it right before walking down the aisle, and instead of just leaving it in the room she gave it to her mother for safe-keeping.

Only problem is that was a lie, the  clip clearly shows her receiving the necklace before her make up was done, she had plenty of time to look at. It does present as a necklace so clearly she did not take it out of the box, even if it was a necklace it is an easy conversion to wrap it around your wrist to make it a bracelet.

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, crazychicken said:

Only problem is that was a lie, the  clip clearly shows her receiving the necklace before her make up was done, she had plenty of time to look at. It does present as a necklace so clearly she did not take it out of the box, even if it was a necklace it is an easy conversion to wrap it around your wrist to make it a bracelet.

OK, but that only shows that she received the necklace before she even met Jake so you can't say she was deliberately snubbing him in giving it to her mother for safekeeping.  At that point she didn't even know who her husband was going to be.  The fact that she didn't take it out of the box to look at it and gave it to her mother was perhaps an error in judgment done during a moment of high stress when she wasn't thinking straight, but I am sure that it was not made with any intent to snub her husband to be.  She may have given it to her out of worry that she would lose such an expensive item.  But of course as usual Jake took it as a personal affront and threw it up to her later as if she did it on purpose because she didn't like him.  And even when she explained to him what happened he wouldn't accept it as just a mistake - no, he continued to double down about it being done on purpose with intent to hurt him.  Even worse, he threw it up to her many, many times.  That to me is the entire problem with Jake.  He takes everything the wrong way, even things that couldn't possibly have been directed personally at him, like this. 

I once had a boyfriend like this.  He was so insanely jealous and insecure that he fabricated all of these scenarios to explain the most innocuous things I did with the absolute WORST intent that I never intended.  And no matter how I tried to explain it, no explanation was ever good enough for him, plus he'd try to trip me up in any explanation I did give as if it was even MORE evidence of my lying to him.  Needless to say this relationship didn't end well.  P.S.  In many ways Jake reminds me of him.  This guy was very good looking with a magnetic personality and ended up married twice but also divorced twice - no great shock or surprise there.  

Edited April 16, 2021 by Yeah No

[Yeah No]

6 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

Jake is the type of dude that if he took you to an expensive restaurant and you didn't eat all your expensive meal for whatever reason, he would never let you forget it and bring it up ever time there was an argument.   

Bingo!  This is EXACTLY the type Jake is.  Just like that boyfriend I had.  He once accused me of deliberately losing a ring he gave me.  It wasn't an engagement ring or anything, but it was too big.  I told him it was a little big but he insisted it wasn't and acted almost like I was trying to avoid wearing it, so gave in and wore it to please him.  Then one day when we were playing frisbee in the park the ring flew off my finger and he accused me of losing it "on purpose" because I didn't really like it or him or whatever he wanted to accuse me of.  We combed that field but never found the ring.  He made my life hell after that.  Every time we had an argument he brought it up, once again accusing me of deliberately losing the ring that he paid so much for, that he gave me with "such love" that I didn't return or appreciate, etc., etc., etc.  Plus by that time in our relationship he had several of these manufactured grievances to throw up in my face.  This is EXACTLY how Jake is and we've seen enough evidence of it already only DAYS into his relationship with someone he doesn't even KNOW.  Imagine how bad he would get and how many things he would throw in a woman's face after a few months of dating!

[Yeah No]

7 hours ago, Silver Bells said:

10 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Sorry I thought Haley was older.  She still doesn't strike me as someone that's all too into finding a relationship.  I think she did this show precisely because she really isn't cut out for finding or being in a relationship and she wants to fulfill some kind of script for her life based on expectations and keeping up with friends and relatives, not because it's her true desire deep down.

Say what ???  I don’t get it.

Not sure what you don't get here.  A lot of people want to get married for those reasons, which are not the best reasons IMHO.  People should accept themselves for what they are, not try to be someone they're not.  And if they don't want to put other things aside like career or lifestyle to focus on a relationship, well maybe they should just realize they're not that into finding a relationship and leave it at that.

[Yeah No]

5 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

My real problem is that Haley herself admits that Jake has brought up that he was hurt by her response to the gift multiple times (900, I think she said to her mom!). And despite her constant claims that she is trying so hard to make things work and find a connection, she hasn't done a single thing to address this one thing that hurt his feelings. A stupid, easy, thing - get the bracelet back and wear it. Or get it back and sit it on the nightstand. Or something. But truly, he kept telling her honestly that it bothered him and she didn't do a thing about it.

And her mother - instead of getting that Jake might be hurt that Haley is so indifferent to his wedding gift to her, she just went right along with Haley's complaint - that she is tired of hearing about it.

I think the point is that Jake really had no reason to take the bracelet incident personally in the first place and because of that Haley didn't think she needed to apologize, just explain why she didn't have it.  I mean, why apologize when she didn't do anything wrong?  That would just admit guilt that she did it on purpose when she did not, it was just a mistake.  Any normal guy looking for the best in his new bride would take her at her word and move on.  I can see saying "I'm sorry you felt that way but I didn't do it because I didn't like it or you" but I doubt that even THAT would have been good enough for Jake.  After several incidents of being berated by this guy for things blown up out of proportion I can fully understand why she would not subsequently act like she cares about his feelings and be in any hurry to get the bracelet back.  What pisses me off about Dr. Pepper is that she wants Haley to validate Jake's hurt but what about the way he made Haley feel about something she never even intended?  Why does everyone assume he had good reason to vilify her intentions?  I don't see it.  The only thing I see is a woman that is unable to defend herself from a guy that's trying to accuse her of something she never intended.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Yeah No

[Lindz]

On 4/14/2021 at 6:15 PM, Crashcourse said:

Jake always looks like he's about to rip a fart.

Maybe he should. It would liven up their awful scenes. 😂

[Lindz]

Oh Lord! 5 minutes in & Virginia's CRYING?!! Cuz he hasn't talked to her family?!! OMG!! CRYING?? SERIOUSLY?!! She's imbalanced. That's ridiculous. It's not even at that level to cry about. Did she even tell him it's very important to her & give him a chance to act? Crying.... especially over expectations she didn't even share is STUPID!!

[Lindz]

Haley was AWFUL @ mini-golf!! She couldn't even compliment the man on his hole-in-one?!! Because she was busy being a SORE LOSER?? EW!!! That could've been a cute, fun date & she behaved so terribly. Poor Jake!

Edited April 16, 2021 by Lindz

[Lindz]

Given the Colton revelation, I'm really wondering if that'll be Ryan... Also dreading having the "Colton conversation" with prospects. Something is seriously wrong with the relationship if one can't be open & honest about those things with their partner & is just delaying the inevitable end.

[crazychicken]

@Yeah No When I said lying I was talking about her excuse of that she received it 3 minutes before walking down the aisle so she did not have time to put it on, the clip shows she received it before her make up was done. Hayley likes to present things in a way that twist the issue so she does not need to accept any responsibility, after seeing her phone call with her mother I can see where she gets it from my mother would have told me to pull my head in and consider the other persons feelings but instead her mother enabled her stanky attitude. It costs nothing to be polite or apologize she doesn't like Jake that is fine he is not everybody's cup of teas but her whole stanky face pulling, snide remarks and sour attitude wears thin very fast Jake has shown way more patience than I would have.

It also baffle me that she is such a poor winner and loser at the same time, when she wins she gloats when she loses she pouts, she must be a drag to hang out with.

 

 

[Medsed]

I can’t sleep...lol...so....

Clara and Ryan   It is becoming more clear with each passing episode that Ryan needs to speak privately to a counselor and figure out why he cannot fully offer himself to his partner.  Now, this could be production deciding they need some drama for this couple or it could be the reality that Clara is stuck with in this marriage.  Time will tell.  Personally, I could not live with a marriage like this one....

Brianna and Vincent. He does seem to lack appropriate empathetic responses to things that she shares with him.  The light skinned versus dark skinned discussion and the insecurity that went with this was clearly either not understood or he is just cold.  Her legitimate fear of complications during pregnancy is being skimmed over by him IMO and that is quite callous.  I think he has a big ego and wants a very specific image of himself to always be foremost. If she is good with it all so be it...but in five, ten, fifteen years...IDK

Virginia and Eric The look on his sister-in-law’s face said it all.  Yes, marriages do not all look the same on the inside but the couple needs to be in agreement. I find it hard to believe that unless you go in with the expectation that this is to be an open arrangement most partners would be alright with their spouse passing out drunk anywhere, but especially with their opposite sex friends, for the night. I also think that Virginia needs to realize that trust is generally earned in the lead up to marriage and that because she is drinking to excess, refusing to bend where that is concerned, and admitting that she is not ready to put her husband first when it comes to her time she has in no way given anyone any comfort in that department. Eric on the other hand, needs to learn to express himself without demands and ultimatums.  For example, she wants to pass out at her friends..how about, I understand that you trust these people, that you have done this in the past, but I barely know you and really do not know them at all.  Can we make it a priority to both commit to the idea that we sleep at home, that if we are too out of it from partying we get an Uber or call each other for a ride, that we lean on one another to make this situation work so that it doesn’t cause a problem while we build this foundation?   No ultimatums and no threats of things being over.  I hazard to say that Virginia would not be ok with Eric exhibiting many of the behaviors she has....she seems to want stability and strength but has none to offer.

Hayley and Jake What a mismatch.  She is not ready to be a wife.  She is so hurt by a relationship that she hasn’t been able to move on from...she needs help with getting past that.  He also seems to have some underlying hurts but I think he is more ready than she is to move on at this point.  One glaring thing that stood out to me was her descriptions of her behavior at four.  I am currently parenting my four year old grandchild (she has been in our custody since 7 months old give or take) and previously parented three of my own.  Who lets a four year old dictate these things?  Seriously, mine would have put on the helmet, would have taken their swim lesson or would have faced a consequence of some sort. Time out, sitting in the car with me, not at poolside on a towel, going home and straight to bed time, no treats for a period...something.  But, no child should be the one choosing in these instances.  And please, what is the point of saying if they start something they have to follow through if you clearly are allowing them, even at four, to follow their own rules, to be a spoiled brat, and to not participate fully.  This special flower sort of mentality that some parents have breeds adults like Hayley to some extent. She was so special that this other guy didn’t see it and left her at 20??  How dare he!!  IMO this is why she cannot get past it...unpleasant things happen, we have to do things that we don’t always want to do, it’s called life.    I understand that Jake is hurt by the fact that she didn’t even take the time to see that the gift was a bracelet.  I also understand that after he told her it was an issue for him he might have expected her to rectify the situation.  That said, she is so checked out that he needs to lower his expectations.  I also get the impression that because she is so done he sees no point in engaging or putting himself out there any more. He probably feels like she picks everything apart because she is unhappy so I have no desire to give her more ammunition.  Please note, I do not think Hayley is a bad person...I think she is a work in progress and with some good therapy she could change certain patterns and with the right person...someone very, very similar to herself in taste and blandness...yes, she’s more vanilla than say pistachio, pistachio...she could be a great wife.  Work first, though.  I also think Jake probably was less inclined to go out sort of looking for someone. Hopefully, he finds love. He’s not a creep, he’s not a big baby, he is equally unmatched, strongly desired for this to work, and wants a partner.  I hope for the best for these two as the move on away from each other.

[Hangin Out]

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I think the point is that Jake really had no reason to take the bracelet incident personally in the first place and because of that Haley didn't think she needed to apologize, just explain why she didn't have it.  I mean, why apologize when she didn't do anything wrong?  That would just admit guilt that she did it on purpose when she did not, it was just a mistake.  Any normal guy looking for the best in his new bride would take her at her word and move on.  I can see saying "I'm sorry you felt that way but I didn't do it because I didn't like it or you" but I doubt that even THAT would have been good enough for Jake.  After several incidents of being berated by this guy for things blown up out of proportion I can fully understand why she would not subsequently act like she cares about his feelings and be in any hurry to get the bracelet back.  What pisses me off about Dr. Pepper is that she wants Haley to validate Jake's hurt but what about the way he made Haley feel about something she never even intended?  Why does everyone assume he had good reason to vilify her intentions?  I don't see it.  The only thing I see is a woman that is unable to defend herself from a guy that's trying to accuse her of something she never intended.

O.k.  I see Haley makes a lot of mistakes and doesn’t take accountability for them.  Bracelet, not inviting him down for drinks when all the others were there .. men too, leaving him alone and going for drinks at least four times, sleeping over Paige’s while on honeymoon, etc, etc.  She didn’t try once to be nice to him.  He knew it, therefore didn’t bother to ask about her past.  Always criticizing him about his clothes, shoes, 80’s, house, steak, etc.  He was never mean to her, but she was mean to him and expected everyone to be on her side.  Pepper saw through her and she was furious.  IMO.

[Hangin Out]

8 hours ago, princelina said:

Jacob and Haley.  My husband has terrible taste.  I dress him.  Have for years.  He once bought me a ceramic mushroom for Valentine's day?????  I think it runs in their family.  His sister recently gifted me with a jar of Carrot Cake jam...who knew they made that flavor???  And two packets of Mint Cocoa!  But..They are the nicest, kindest people.

Lol.  Our first Easter together, I came home from work to 12 baby yellow live chicks in my bathtub.  He thought it was appropriate for Easter.  ??????????