S03.E03: La Fiera

[WendyCR72]

Airing on January 17, 2021:

Officer John Nolan’s mom makes an unannounced visit that complicates his life, and Sergeant Grey considers retiring.

[paigow]

No new girlfriend needed for Nolan...Mama in the house 4evah!

[Netfoot]

Ho Hum...

[nittany cougar]

Nolan's mom is a total flake and way over the top.  I really wish that he could have gotten Susan Sullivan for the mom role.  I think they were going for quirky,  but the way it was played by Frances Fischer, the character seemed borderline mentally ill.

I have a feeling that something bad is going to happen with the girl that Chen has been helping.  

[Raja]

I guess  I have my answer from last week. Detective Lopez goes straight to homicide as a rookie detective assignment. It is weird as this most be the only show without the detective partners to play against each other.

[chaifan]

3 hours ago, nittany cougar said:

Nolan's mom is a total flake and way over the top.  I really wish that he could have gotten Susan Sullivan for the mom role.  I think they were going for quirky,  but the way it was played by Frances Fischer, the character seemed borderline mentally ill.

I have a feeling that something bad is going to happen with the girl that Chen has been helping.  

I hope she's not a recurring character.  That plot line was pointless.  I guess if Nolan's not dating someone they need to do something to give him his own plot line for an episode.  I did like his "this is not a costume, mom" line. 

I think a great plot twist for Chen's "puppy" (as Bradford calls her, I have no idea what the character's name is), would be for nothing to happen to her.  It would be so nice to have a young female character not be the victim of a (actual or attempted) rape, kidnapping, domestic violence, etc.  I feel that the character's purpose is not for Chen's benefit, but to help humanize Bradford.  He's seeing Chen be nice for no reason other than because someone needs help.  We saw how he reacted to seeing West stand up to a racist cop (which West was doing more for the greater good, instead of personal benefit).  It opened Bradford's eyes and got him to back West.  This would be a good thing - Bradford had become more "one note" in the last season.  In the first we saw the bits about his ex, which explained some of his asshat behavior.  But after that it was pretty much just hardass Bradford. 

 

[HurricaneVal]

While it reeked of "white savior", I really liked Officer Bradford stepping up there at the end.  I think it was the look on his face when he saw Jackson in heated conversation with Sergeant Grey through the office windows.  You got the impression that he was going in there to pull Jackson out and keep the thin blue line, but when he blurted--almost in spite of himself--that he supported whatever Jackson was saying it came as a surprise.  To apparently everybody, including Bradford, but he pulled himself up and got behind the position.  I was a little shocked that Grey was all in favor of continuing the status quo, until I think he started listening to himself and realized that as he was looking at retirement, nothing has changed in all those years and he was part of the problem.  The weariness in his voice when his wife asked him what had come up and he said something like "you know" and the weary understanding in her eyes kind of killed me.

I don't think the whole BLM and racist policing issue(s) can be resolved in a TV show, but I appreciate that they're trying to show a way.  It might get hokey (see: white savior) and cliche, but they're trying.  That's more than a lot of shows would do.  Racism is a bit of a third rail on the small screen.

The fact that Nolan's mom is a narcissistic whackaloon is hilarious.  Nathan Fillion does weary exasperation really well, and this gives him an opportunity to exercise that.  I love how he's very aware of who she is and what her motivations are and anticipates her next moves.  I also thought it was terrific that Nyla kind of changed his perspective by showing him another view of how him mom came to be the manipulative narcissist that she is now, because being a single mom was difficult back in the day, and she had to fight--including lying and cheating--for everything she got.

The theme of the episode seemed to be "strong mothers" what with getting whacked in the face with it at every turn.  From the woman in labor getting dissed by the establishment, to Nyla stepping up for her and for Nolan's mom, to the black kid's mom and grandma passionately defending the kid in the face of drawn guns, to the whole legend of La Fiera herself, to Lopez bonding (sort of) with La Fiera....  I think this will be an interesting storyline going forward.  The gift at the end was both a gift and a threat, there were interesting layers there, and I think Lopez clearly recognized that.  I want to see where this goes.

I really appreciate that the bizarre scuba-clad shooter at the range wasn't just a comedic throwaway, but integral to the whole story.  That was a complete shock to me when he opened fire on Nolan.  I like that this show can surprise me, and it did several times in this episode.  I also like that the show is much more of an ensemble and not so concentrated on all Nolan, all the time.  I like him--and I like Nathan Fillion--but I really like all the characters and how they all interact with each other. 

[TAG42481]

I agree that it would have been amazing "continuity" to get Susan Sullivan to play Castle ... I mean, NOLAN'S mom.

So Chen writes the title of her car over to her "puppy," the puppy sells it, and Chen is STILL helping her?  Oh no.  She should have been DONE with the girl at that moment.

I was absolutely convinced that SOMETHING was going to happen at the shootout that was going to cause Lopez to lose her baby.  Although a quick Google search reveals that Alyssa Diaz was pregnant in real life (she had a son in December), so I guess not! 😛

[eel21788]

2 hours ago, TAG42481 said:

So Chen writes the title of her car over to her "puppy," the puppy sells it, and Chen is STILL helping her?  Oh no.  She should have been DONE with the girl at that moment.

I had thought that the car was a temporary gift to give her someplace to crash until she was able to find a safe home place. I didn't think the intention was for her to keep the car permanently, such as have the title signed over to her.

6 hours ago, nittany cougar said:

I have a feeling that something bad is going to happen with the girl that Chen has been helping.  

I have a feeling she is going to turn out to be a con artist. The "hurry up and sign the car over to me so I can sell it and go stay with a cousin I could have been staying with all along" didn't work for me.

[WendyCR72]

I preface this by saying I love Susan Sullivan. But I am very happy she did NOT play Nolan's mother. This is not Castle and I think each show should have its own identity. This is not to say that Ms. Sullivan cannot/should not appear in a role in the future should the circumstances warrant, but having her do a retread with Nathan Fillion would just cast a shadow on THIS show.

But that's my $1.50 opinion on the matter, such as it is.

[Clanstarling]

I thought this was a solid show and the commentary on systemic racism was written well.

I didn't see Bradford as a white savior, though that's certainly a valid take. I saw it more in terms of organizational heirarchy, having a superior support a rookie. Not to mention showing him evolve in his thinking and take a stand. 

[Surrealist]

5 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

The fact that Nolan's mom is a narcissistic whackaloon is hilarious.

I also thought it was terrific that Nyla kind of changed his perspective by showing him another view of how him mom came to be the manipulative narcissist that she is now, because being a single mom was difficult back in the day, and she had to fight--including lying and cheating--for everything she got.

If you were raised by a narcissist, this storyline hit differently when you have a female character making excuses for the mother.

That said I'm looking forward to the continuation of López vs La Fería. This storyline definitely intrigues me.

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

But that's my $1.50 opinion on the matter, such as it is.

It used to be 2¢, but... inflation.

 

[Jodithgrace]

Was I the only one yelling at the screen, "Don't open that box?" Have these people learned nothing? Especially right at the end of the episode like that...

I think it's interesting that the writers have really been listening to the issues that POC have been dealing with. Not just racist police, but Doctors who discount Black women's symptoms as just "being dramatic." This was something that I knew nothing about until recently, and I was shocked at how much higher the fetal and/or maternal death rates are for POC than for White women partly because of this very issue. I was very impressed that they heard this and wrote it into the episode.

Of course, I agree that The Rookie isn't going to change much about society. But I do like that they are trying. That's really all any of us can do...to use whatever platform we are given to bring these issues to light.

[Moose135]

8 minutes ago, Jodithgrace said:

Was I the only one yelling at the screen, "Don't open that box?" Have these people learned nothing? Especially right at the end of the episode like that...

No, I was sure something very bad was going to happen, maybe something going boom.

Of course, it also made me think...

Edited January 19, 2021 by Moose135

[paigow]

3 hours ago, eel21788 said:

I have a feeling she is going to turn out to be a con artist. The "hurry up and sign the car over to me so I can sell it and go stay with a cousin I could have been staying with all along" didn't work for me.

The cousin is involved with something illegal.. then she will be homeless again and has to move in with Chen & West "temporarily for the whole season"

[femmefan1946]

7 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

  The gift at the end was both a gift and a threat, there were interesting layers there, and I think Lopez clearly recognized that.  I want to see where this goes.

 

I hope Lopez has the good sense to report the "gift" to her boss immediately.  It is not only a threat because the gang was able to enter her home without a trace, but also could be construed as putting Lopez in La Fiera's debt. 

And ....

So Lopez who is fluent in Spanish, is interviewing a Spanish-speaking person. So they switch to English. What's wrong with sub-titles guys? Especially since they use them for a few opening Spanish words, which are pretty easy to understand even if you don't speak the language (I don't. My second language is French.)

Because DH is pretty deaf, we have sub-titles on all the time anyway.

[Clanstarling]

13 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

Was I the only one yelling at the screen, "Don't open that box?" Have these people learned nothing? Especially right at the end of the episode like that...

I think it's interesting that the writers have really been listening to the issues that POC have been dealing with. Not just racist police, but Doctors who discount Black women's symptoms as just "being dramatic." This was something that I knew nothing about until recently, and I was shocked at how much higher the fetal and/or maternal death rates are for POC than for White women partly because of this very issue. I was very impressed that they heard this and wrote it into the episode.

Of course, I agree that The Rookie isn't going to change much about society. But I do like that they are trying. That's really all any of us can do...to use whatever platform we are given to bring these issues to light.

I was yelling that too.

I like that the writers are exploring these issues. The Rookie itself won't necessarily change things, but the more shows that do, it will eventually get the message out to more of society in a way people will find palatable (except for hardliners). Pop culture has a huge influence on thinking.

[ctlady]

Well, thanks a lot - Rookie writers - for ruining another cop show by feeling you have to sacrifice entertainment by having to pander to the narrative of the social/racial climate.  Look - I get it.  I see/hear/read about it almost every day in the news - and that's where I want to get my information from.  When I want to detatch from the world, I rely on television to give me that break.  That escape.  Instead, this episode just pushed down my throat that White (douchy - absolutely!) cop = bad.  White woman who doesn't want a black pregnant woman giving birth on her expensive sheets = screechy 'Karen'  Oh....and single mothers couldn't get credit cards in the late 70s/early 80s? 

And what an absolute joke it was in the beginning at the firing range when Gray had them recite the top 3 reasons when to draw your weapon which, nowadays, there's pretty much no reason unless the officer wants to be dragged through the fire

The writers (in my opinion) went absolutely overboard with the prejudice/racial cliche's for West's new T.O. (he's so loathsome I can't even remember his name)  I mean - assuming West only got into college on either a baskeball or football scholarship rather than his own smarts was cringy. I'll continue to watch the next couple of episodes in the hopes they wrap this storyline up.  But it really felt as if the writers forced addressing this issue ' (as with just about every other show - including non cop shows)

I hope Frances Fisher doesn't hang around for long.  That stunt she pulled calling Nolan and making it sound like she was being attacked was irresponsible and I'm glad Nolan called her out on it

Lopez did good on her first day.  Was I the only one who was saying, "don't open the box.....don't open the box" at the end.  I was bracing for a 'kaboom!'  But what concerned me was the fact that 'La Fiera' got into her house to leave it.  Even if it's to leave a gift, it's still B&E

Chen continues to annoy me.  She just comes across too immature at times.  She just can't come to the rescue of every 'puppy' (though Mr. Ctlady and I cracked up when Bradford saw the teenager in her new duds and said 'bad puppy'

[shapeshifter]

20 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

I also thought it was terrific that Nyla kind of changed his perspective by showing him another view of how him mom came to be the manipulative narcissist that she is now, because being a single mom was difficult back in the day, and she had to fight--including lying and cheating--for everything she got.

Hrmph. A lot of us economically disadvantaged single moms back in the 80s didn't lie and cheat. I think that bit should have been a little more nuanced or left out altogether.

 

 

12 hours ago, femmefan1946 said:

So Lopez who is fluent in Spanish, is interviewing a Spanish-speaking person. So they switch to English. What's wrong with sub-titles guys? Especially since they use them for a few opening Spanish words, which are pretty easy to understand even if you don't speak the language (I don't. My second language is French.)

Because DH is pretty deaf, we have sub-titles on all the time anyway.

I have closed captioning on too, which is a problem when they overlap the foreign language sub-titles. Am I not seeing a setting to move closed captioning to the top of the screen?

 

[chaifan]

20 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

I really appreciate that the bizarre scuba-clad shooter at the range wasn't just a comedic throwaway, but integral to the whole story. 

How did absolutely no one else in the whole shooting range not see scuba guy???  And, also, if you see a live person on the wrong end of a gun range, wouldn't you shout that out so everyone stopped shooting immediately so he wouldn't get hit by a stray bullet?

1 hour ago, ctlady said:

Oh....and single mothers couldn't get credit cards in the late 70s/early 80s? 

The Equal Credit Opportunity Act was passed in 1974.  Prior to that banks could, and almost all did, refuse women loans, credit cards, etc., without the co-sign of a male.  The ECOA made that illegal, though I'm sure the practice continued as long as banks/stores could get away with it.  So that's credible that Nolan's mom would have had that disadvantage when he was young. 

I felt like the pregnant woman plot line was shoehorned in.  First, was she staying at an airbnb (or whatever it was) specifically to give birth?  Or was she in town for something and went into early labor?  It looked like the woman with her was her doula or something.  And Nyla and Nolan would not be allowed to just hang out with her in the hospital - they probably wouldn't have been allowed to go with her at all, it was a medical issue and once the ambulance got to her they would have had to go back to normal patrol.  I think they could have covered the same topic - black women often get mistreated by the medical system - in a way that was more organic to the show. 

Susan Sullivan - it would have been too cute to make her Nolan's mom.  Glad they didn't.  But it would be fun to have her guest star in some role that allows Nolan to say "You're not my mother", or something of the sort. 

[Netfoot]

2 hours ago, ctlady said:

White woman who doesn't want a black pregnant woman giving birth on her expensive sheets = screechy 'Karen'...

Got to admit this plot segment made no sense to me whatsoever.

I don't know how the pregnant woman got there, or what rationale was used to suggest she should not be removed, but the scene was fabricated with the only and obvious intent of showing how unreasonable the white property owner was. But I don't understand by what agency anyone can think that they can enter my home and make use of the most expensive bedclothes in the house to pop out their offspring. Even an invited house guest can't just expect to make free with all the possessions of their host! I'd certainly be POed if that happened, no matter what the skin colour of the offender. Under the circumstances, I'd drag my own damned sister oudda there and have her squeeze out her brat on the kitchen floor, if not the garage!

For sure, I dunno what them fancy bedclothes would cost to replace, but the the replacement cost will only add to the price of the pregnancy. Because if it were me she would pay! Come hell or high water, she would pay!

[MoreCoffeePlease]

Quote

I like that the writers are exploring these issues. The Rookie itself won't necessarily change things, but the more shows that do, it will eventually get the message out to more of society in a way people will find palatable (except for hardliners). Pop culture has a huge influence on thinking.

There are a lot of uneducated and ignorant people out there who don't watch legitimate news or read books about these issues, so I agree ... I'm OK with the show doing this, and maybe, just maybe, someone's eyes will be opened. 

(The Resident had an outstanding episode about a Black mom dying because the health care workers, both doctors and nurses, weren't really listening to her or her husband. It was based on a true story. Heartbreaking.)

[ctlady]

30 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

I don't know how the pregnant woman got there, or what rationale was used to suggest she should not be removed, but the scene was fabricated with the only and obvious intent of showing how unreasonable the white property owner was. But I don't understand by what agency anyone can think that they can enter my home and make use of the most expensive bedclothes in the house to pop out their offspring.

I do believe the homeowner said that the pregnant woman was renting her home as an AirBNB type of situation.

 

8 minutes ago, MoreCoffeePlease said:

There are a lot of uneducated and ignorant people out there who don't watch legitimate news or read books about these issues, so I agree ... I'm OK with the show doing this, and maybe, just maybe, someone's eyes will be opened.

I agree with the first part, but I do feel the tv shows, movies, sports, etc are to entertain, not to educate.  With everything going on in the world with unrest/ lockdowns and anxiety and depression over it, there are very little avenues of reprieve and escape.

[momo]

On 1/18/2021 at 10:38 AM, chaifan said:

I think a great plot twist for Chen's "puppy" (as Bradford calls her, I have no idea what the character's name is), would be for nothing to happen to her.  It would be so nice to have a young female character not be the victim of a (actual or attempted) rape, kidnapping, domestic violence, etc.

That WOULD be something, wouldn't it!

[momo]

5 hours ago, ctlady said:

assuming West only got into college on either a baskeball or football scholarship rather than his own smarts was cringy

I am POC, hubs is whiter than white from the UK, so I used this as a teaching moment.

[shapeshifter]

The doula would have brought disposable waterproof sheet pads for a home birth ––but maybe they cut out a line about that. 

Edited January 19, 2021 by shapeshifter

[paigow]

I still cannot understand the AirBnB bit...She could afford a travelling doula and the expensive house rental...what was wrong with her own house???

ETA: If the main point was to highlight systemic OB/GYN issues, it would have been far simpler for the doula to be pulled over by Nolan while speeding to the hospital with an unconscious patient [Classic Cop Trope]. Thereby avoiding obvious plot holes and poorly delineated character actions / behaviour. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by paigow

[shapeshifter]

17 minutes ago, paigow said:

I still cannot understand the AirBnB bit...She could afford a travelling doula and the expensive house rental...what was wrong with her own house???

Good question. 
I can make up stuff, but I don’t think we were told. 

[kirkola]

4 hours ago, chaifan said:

How did absolutely no one else in the whole shooting range not see scuba guy???  And, also, if you see a live person on the wrong end of a gun range, wouldn't you shout that out so everyone stopped shooting immediately so he wouldn't get hit by a stray bullet?

The Equal Credit Opportunity Act was passed in 1974.  Prior to that banks could, and almost all did, refuse women loans, credit cards, etc., without the co-sign of a male.  The ECOA made that illegal, though I'm sure the practice continued as long as banks/stores could get away with it.  So that's credible that Nolan's mom would have had that disadvantage when he was young. 

I felt like the pregnant woman plot line was shoehorned in.  First, was she staying at an airbnb (or whatever it was) specifically to give birth?  Or was she in town for something and went into early labor?  It looked like the woman with her was her doula or something.  And Nyla and Nolan would not be allowed to just hang out with her in the hospital - they probably wouldn't have been allowed to go with her at all, it was a medical issue and once the ambulance got to her they would have had to go back to normal patrol.  I think they could have covered the same topic - black women often get mistreated by the medical system - in a way that was more organic to the show. 

Susan Sullivan - it would have been too cute to make her Nolan's mom.  Glad they didn't.  But it would be fun to have her guest star in some role that allows Nolan to say "You're not my mother", or something of the sort. 

I was born in 75, and I can remember my Mom having to provide a marriage license to get store cards, because according to the stores, she had no credit.  So it had to have been early 80s, possibly very late 70s for me to be able to remember it.  My Mom was always looking for teachable moments, so she explained it to my brother and I.  The entire thing seemed stupid to my kid ears, because my Dad rarely bought anything on his own.  Mom did all the shopping and if Dad wanted something, he'd give her a list to work from.  It made hardware store shopping fun.

The Airbnb and birthing story needed more information to make it make sense.  Clearly the women rented the house, so she had a right to be there, but where were the plastic sheeting, the buckets of water, the towels?  I mean, far as I know, you aren't allowed to trash an Airbnb. So the guest would have needed to clean up after the birth.  Also both the owner and tenant would have needed to hand over paperwork proving that they were who they said they were.  Alot of that bit was just sorta random.

Finally, at some point, officer Stanton (I had to look it up, calling him Routh didn't seem appropriate) should have realized that his rookie is a West of the Internal Affairs Wests and mind his ps and qs.  I mean what if Daddy West overheard him in the precinct yelling at Rookie West or Rookie West casually mentioned names while complaining about a hard day at the family dinner.

[Surrealist]

On 1/18/2021 at 3:36 PM, eel21788 said:

I have a feeling she is going to turn out to be a con artist. The "hurry up and sign the car over to me so I can sell it and go stay with a cousin I could have been staying with all along" didn't work for me.

This was my initial feeling too. It wouldn't shock me if she turns out to be a con artist.

[WendyCR72]

This is a reminder to curb politically-adjacent talk. Of "Karens", the police culture for good or bad in general terms, talk of sexual misconduct and believe all women, etc.

I do realize the show is trying to be part of the new political landscape. But the policy here remains: ONLY themes mentioned in context of the episode are allowed to be discussed.

Using the show as a way to bring in outside discussions/complaints is not.

If there are any questions, please send me a PM.

Thank you.

[bros402]

16 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I was yelling that too.

I like that the writers are exploring these issues. The Rookie itself won't necessarily change things, but the more shows that do, it will eventually get the message out to more of society in a way people will find palatable (except for hardliners). Pop culture has a huge influence on thinking.

If anyone wasn't yelling that, yeaah.

I like that it is being explored too - and we're not being hit over the head with a brick like the season premiere. I remember that study from a few years back about cop shows & how people perceive things (I think it was from the Norman Lear Center?) and it was pretty interesting. (Mods, if this is too much, just PM me and i'll remove it)

16 hours ago, ctlady said:

Oh....and single mothers couldn't get credit cards in the late 70s/early 80s? 

The writers (in my opinion) went absolutely overboard with the prejudice/racial cliche's for West's new T.O. (he's so loathsome I can't even remember his name)  I mean - assuming West only got into college on either a baskeball or football scholarship rather than his own smarts was cringy. I'll continue to watch the next couple of episodes in the hopes they wrap this storyline up.  But it really felt as if the writers forced addressing this issue ' (as with just about every other show - including non cop shows)

Lopez did good on her first day.  Was I the only one who was saying, "don't open the box.....don't open the box" at the end.  I was bracing for a 'kaboom!'  But what concerned me was the fact that 'La Fiera' got into her house to leave it.  Even if it's to leave a gift, it's still B&E

Chen continues to annoy me.  She just comes across too immature at times.  She just can't come to the rescue of every 'puppy' (though Mr. Ctlady and I cracked up when Bradford saw the teenager in her new duds and said 'bad puppy'

I believe the law allowing it wasn't passed until the mid 70s, so it was close enough. Having a cliche can help illustrate issues like that. Brandon Routh is pretty good in the role.

I was also saying "don't open the box" along with "well it's not big enough to be a head, maybe a hand?"

From what Bradford said, there's usually one puppy, then the rookie is done with them - however, Chen is a very empathetic person, so I think she could have a whole kennel's worth of puppies.

11 hours ago, momo said:

That WOULD be something, wouldn't it!

That would be so good

[eel21788]

17 hours ago, Surrealist said:

This was my initial feeling too. It wouldn't shock me if she turns out to be a con artist.

When she crosses the line into doing things that are illegal, she will then become a CI because Chen will refuse to let go of helping/enabling her.

 

[bros402]

14 hours ago, eel21788 said:

When she crosses the line into doing things that are illegal, she will then become a CI because Chen will refuse to let go of helping/enabling her.

 

I hope nothing happens to the "puppy" and she goes to college and comes back to work as a dispatcher or something to keep her on the show, then she becomes Chen's Rookie in Season 9 (or whatever) of The Rookie 😛

[paigow]

On 1/20/2021 at 1:52 AM, bros402 said:

I was also saying "don't open the box" along with "well it's not big enough to be a head, maybe a hand?"

Hard to top Boardwalk Empire where an entire body was sent in a giant crate to Nucky Thompson...

La Fiera will rat out [or kill] the local competition to Lopez and Junior will run point on the college market...

[femmefan1946]

White woman who doesn't want a black pregnant woman giving birth on her expensive sheets = screechy 'Karen' 

Well it was pretty rude of the pregnant woman to set up a complete stranger's home to give birth in. Have you ever washed sheets after a home birth? Why not your own home for heaven's sake!
If you can afford a B&B you are not living in your car.

I was on Karen's side for that part.

The hospital treatment echoes Sabrina Williams who had a similar experience with her post-partum treatment-- and she is famous and outspoken.

You really have to wonder why some guys go into gynecology and obstetrics.

 

Oh....and single mothers couldn't get credit cards in the late 70s/early 80s? 

Single? Heck, I couldn't get a card in my own name in 1978  when I was married and working! DH at the time was not because he was at home with babyDD.

And when we bought our house, in 1975, my income was higher than his, but could not be counted towards getting a mortgage, because I could have a baby at any moment.

If she wasn't working she would not be able to get a card, and credit cards were much less used in those days. We were still using cheques.

And if she was working, she could only have the use of her husband's card with his permission. The guy who I had abandoned them and disappeared.

 

So. No.

[HurricaneVal]

5 hours ago, femmefan1946 said:

I was on Karen's side for that part.

Yup...booking an AirBnB for the messy purpose of giving birth seemed rude and weird.  Maybe the doula/midwife rented the place?  In my town the local midwife has a lovely bungalow she uses exclusively for not-hospital yet not-home births.  

But........am I misremembering?  Did the "Karen" say she hustled over after she saw what was going on in the security cams?  That is not OK.

 

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

Yup...booking an AirBnB for the messy purpose of giving birth seemed rude and weird.  Maybe the doula/midwife rented the place?  In my town the local midwife has a lovely bungalow she uses exclusively for not-hospital yet not-home births.  

But........am I misremembering?  Did the "Karen" say she hustled over after she saw what was going on in the security cams?  That is not OK.

 

They left so much out, I'm not sure that the woman booked the AirBnB to HAVE the delivery (though the doula is perhaps evidence of that, but anyone who goes into labor calls their birthing professional). The childbirth/crap doctors d plot could have been handled better. No real need to put in a crappy landlord on top of it. 

If they wanted to show this kind of attitude, there are many more realistic ways of showing it.  And yeah, I'd think that invasion of privacy is illegal whether or not you own the house.

Edited January 22, 2021 by Clanstarling

[Netfoot]

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I'm not sure that the woman booked the AirBnB to HAVE the delivery (though the doula is perhaps evidence of that, but anyone who goes into labor calls their birthing professional).

What is the difference? If the birth came early / unexpectedly, that still wouldn't give a tenant the right to destroy any and all property belonging to the landlord. 

[ribboninthesky1]

Nolan's mom explains a lot about Nolan.  He can steamroll over people, much like she does.  It's "different" presumably because he's trying to do the right thing, because he's nice. But there's a level of narcissism there, too.  Which is why I LOVE that Harper called him out on trying to slide out of his reprimand.  I laughed out loud when scuba guy opened fire on him, just because my initial thought was, "Not every one is in the mood for small talk, Nolan."    

I thought Bradford's actions/reactions in this episode felt much more authentic than whatever the show was going for with Nolan in the season opener and episode 2.  It was very easy for Bradford to ignore fellow officers' bigotry because it ultimately had no impact on his life or career.  Not like he would ever have to worry about being passed over for promotions primarily due to race or be off-duty and treated like a criminal by said bigoted officers (this has happened in real life to black cops). 

What affected me the most was the exchange between West and Grey.  There was a lot going on there - West's frustration, generational differences, blatant disrespect by West partly because Grey is black (I don't think he would have been so cavalier towards a white sergeant), Grey's anger, the complexity, burden, survivor's guilt of black people in white-dominated occupations.  Not to mention the implication that the black family hadn't filed a complaint.  Whew!  Well done by both actors.

Shame that the attempt to highlight healthcare discrimination faced by black women was so sloppily done.  I suspect there wasn't a black female writer in the room.       

Chen isn't my favorite character, but I appreciated the follow-up to the gun range subplot in that she expertly took down the would-be assassin at the college campus.  I'm kind of over the Bradford/Chen dynamic.  

Edited January 23, 2021 by ribboninthesky1

[devilhalo]

I thought Nolan talking about Gray lifting his reprimand was completely off character. It seemed like something Richard Castle would say not John Nolan. Also, the whole “who’s keeping score” scene reminded me of the “keeping score” scene from Castle where Caskett talks about who has saved each other’s life more. 
 

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by devilhalo

[devilhalo]

9 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

Shame that the attempt to highlight healthcare discrimination faced by black women was so sloppily done.  I suspect there wasn't a black female writer in the room.       

There is. Her name is Paula Puryear 

https://twitter.com/thepaulapuryear/status/1348391280754102273?s=21

[Clanstarling]

20 hours ago, Netfoot said:

What is the difference? If the birth came early / unexpectedly, that still wouldn't give a tenant the right to destroy any and all property belonging to the landlord. 

The difference is between intentional and unintentional.  When a tenant destroys something in a rental, intentionally or not, they pay for it. It's in the generally in the contract. Unless it's more than sheets and blankets, it's nothing to call the cops about. And if the tenant doesn't pay, that's generally a court matter.  A landlord putting expensive and irreplaceable items in a rental is always playing with fire.

On a human scale, people don't generally choose to have a medical emergency. (If she was in that state so quickly, it was an emergency, not a choice, which was supported somewhat by there being something wrong when they got to the hospital). And if that emergency damages property it's not generally because they think they have the right to, it just happens. An ambulance, instead of the cops, would be the call to make.

And speaking of rights - a landlord doesn't have the right to invade their tenant's privacy with a security camera.

That being said, this plot was handled poorly, didn't give us enough information to know what really happened, and would have been much better sticking just to the hospital experience, which is more realistic.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Clanstarling

[TimetoShine]

On 1/21/2021 at 5:02 PM, femmefan1946 said:

White woman who doesn't want a black pregnant woman giving birth on her expensive sheets = screechy 'Karen' 

Well it was pretty rude of the pregnant woman to set up a complete stranger's home to give birth in. Have you ever washed sheets after a home birth? Why not your own home for heaven's sake!
If you can afford a B&B you are not living in your car.

I was on Karen's side for that part.

The hospital treatment echoes Sabrina Williams who had a similar experience with her post-partum treatment-- and she is famous and outspoken.

You really have to wonder why some guys go into gynecology and obstetrics

I'm a black woman and I was on "Karen's" side. 

I do believe that black women face unequal treatment by medical professionals, I just don't think this episode portrayed it well.

[paigow]

3 minutes ago, TimetoShine said:

I'm a black woman and I was on "Karen's" side.

I feel that "Karen" would have called the cops regardless of skin color / religious / ethnic factors. Tide pens have a hard time with blood and fine linen.  

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, TimetoShine said:

I do believe that black women face unequal treatment by medical professionals, I just don't think this episode portrayed it well.

I wonder if it's better to do have a prime time network show do a mediocre job of demonstrating a black woman being treated unfairly and poorly by medical professionals, or if it hurts the message so much that they shouldn't have touched on the topic at all?
This question applies to a lot of social issues on a show like this one, but I'm limiting the scope of my question since this is an episode thread, and it can be helpful to look at a specific example.

[femmefan1946]

Welllll.... maybe doing it poorly is better than not doing it at all? Still if the point was to show that the black mother was being poorly handled by the mainstream medical profession, the "Karen" plot, which basically served to get Nolan and Harper involved, was not well thought through.

Perhaps a return call on Karen and charges being brought against her for spying on her tenants? Or would that have to follow a complaint by the mother?

 

[izabella]

On 1/24/2021 at 5:22 PM, paigow said:

I feel that "Karen" would have called the cops regardless of skin color / religious / ethnic factors. Tide pens have a hard time with blood and fine linen.  

I think she would have called 911 and the dispatcher would have sent the ambulance.  "A woman is in labor at my AirBnB" normally wouldn't require police, but maybe they would send them anyway.

[ribboninthesky1]

On 1/23/2021 at 5:02 AM, devilhalo said:

There is. Her name is Paula Puryear 

https://twitter.com/thepaulapuryear/status/1348391280754102273?s=21

Super late to this, but thank you for the correction! I would sure like to know what she was thinking in writing that part of the episode.