All Creatures Great And Small (2021) - General Discussion

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

4 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

So, how long has Mr. Hall been AWOL?

Has he been gone for 10 years? 

[Llywela]

It is possible that Mrs Hall doesn't want a divorce, that she feels strongly that she made her marriage vows for life, regardless of how that marriage has actually turned out. In today's society where divorce is common, it is easy to forget that it was viewed differently in the past - in 1938 divorce was still rare, it was only just becoming more accessible, so even people in difficult marriage wouldn't view it the same way we do today. Although actually, even recently, I knew a woman who had been separated from her alcoholic husband for over 30 years but had chosen not to divorce him because she'd made those marriage vows for life. Until Mrs Hall chooses to talk about it, we won't know.

[Daff]

8 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

No, I was still talking about the guy hiding the sheep not making sense to me from a story perspective, not the actual procedure with Tricki. That, I believed! (Though in the book the doggy patient-- who was not Tricki-- was suffering for much longer before James decided to give it a go, thinking back to his experience with the sheep.)

Sorry I misunderstood your issue with it. I just chalked it up, again, to ego. Farmer adamantly claimed he’d been around long enough to know when a ewe’s dying. He didn’t want to admit he was wrong. Me? I’d be proclaiming the miracle recovery from the rooftops. 

[Blergh]

So far, Mrs. Hall, hasn't said when she'd separated from the absent Mr. Hall or the circumstances (though didn't protest when her friend congratulated her for leaving 'the brute'). It could be that she may not have heard that the Divorce Laws had gotten slightly more reasonable in the last few years and/or she'd had to concentrate on earning her own way that she didn't have the resources (or even the monies) to engage a divorce lawyer regardless of how she could have legally been considered faultless. 

People have stayed legally wed for reasons beyond faith and/or valuing values. I once knew someone who'd been separated for decades from a husband who openly lived with his girlfriend but she categorically refused to divorce him because she believed she'd have been entitled to half the profits of any house sale if he ever decided to sell their former marital abode- never mind that she'd spent X$$$ over that time on dwellings for herself in the decades since. I don't know if it worked out wound up working in any way to her benefit. 

[BradandJanet]

In the "after show" that PBS ran, I noticed that Nicholas Ralph naturally speaks with a very strong Scottish accent that he doesn't use in the show. Most of the other actors are English, so perhaps he intentionally uses a more "standard" English accent, or maybe the Scottish accent is stronger when he is speaking informally. 

[sugarbaker design]

5 minutes ago, BradandJanet said:

In the "after show" that PBS ran, I noticed that Nicholas Ralph naturally speaks with a very strong Scottish accent that he doesn't use in the show. Most of the other actors are English, so perhaps he intentionally uses a more "standard" English accent, or maybe the Scottish accent is stronger when he is speaking informally. 

Wouldn't Nicholas Ralph's accent be different than James Herriott's accent?  Just like Rachel Shenton's accent would be different than Helen's, and so on.

[Blergh]

6 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

Wouldn't Nicholas Ralph's accent be different than James Herriott's accent?  Just like Rachel Shenton's accent would be different than Helen's, and so on.

It's true that most performers try to use different accents/ways of speaking for their individual characters than they use in their own offstage life and it appears to be the case for Mr. Ralph.

[sugarbaker design]

3 minutes ago, Blergh said:

It's true that most performers try to use different accents/ways of speaking for their individual characters than they use in their own offstage life and it appears to be the case for Mr. Ralph.

I would hope so!  They're being paid to act after all.  I can't imagine any of these actors sounding like  rural Yorkshireans from the 1930's.  Except for James Herriott the Scot, of course.

[laredhead]

There was an after show on PBS?  Not on my station - rats.

 

[sugarbaker design]

2 minutes ago, laredhead said:

There was an after show on PBS?

I wouldn't call it an aftershow, it was a begathon that heavily relied on ACG&S fandom.

[AZChristian]

I loved "James" using a much more noticeable Scottish accent to quote the words to "Auld Lang Syne."

[libgirl2]

16 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

I loved "James" using a much more noticeable Scottish accent to quote the words to "Auld Lang Syne."

Me too. 

[Driad]

What was a typical attitude of Yorkshire farmers to Scots in the 1930s?  Some appeared to distrust people who were not local.

[Zella]

17 minutes ago, Driad said:

Some appeared to distrust people who were not local.

In my experience, that's not really unusual in any rural area. 

[Driad]

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

In my experience, that's not really unusual in any rural area. 

I'm wondering if they specifically objected to Scots, more than to English people from a similar distance away.

[BradandJanet]

I had to go to Wikipedia for this, but James Herriot/Wight was born in northern England (English citizen), grew up in Glasgow and went to college there, and moved back to England to practice. His accent was Scottish, and growing up in a city would make him seem different to rural farmers. 

 

 

 

[tennisgurl]

On 2/21/2022 at 11:31 AM, cinsays said:

I loved it and I think I am glad I never saw the earlier version or read the books and can just enjoy it on its own merits.  I will likely try to read the books once the entire series is over.

Same here! I have never read the books or seen the previous show, and while I have become interested in them I am going to wait until this show has ended so that I can continue to love this show without having anything to compare it to. 

I loved this episode, it had such a great warm holiday feel. I loved the opening changing to a winter theme, all of the subtle Christmas colors, songs, and pines, James bringing a bit of Scotland with him to the festivities, everyone combining their Christmas celebrations at Mrs Pumphrey's house, I just had a great time watching. 

That skinflint farmer sure had some nerve, complaining about the vets for trying to do their jobs, while in their house, drinking their free booze. 

We end the season on a bittersweet note. Everything seems great now, but Mrs. Hall sees the ominous planes of foreshadowing in the sky and seems to have an idea of what is coming. I am so sad that this season is over so quickly, hopefully we wont have to wait too long for more.

[Llywela]

4 hours ago, BradandJanet said:

In the "after show" that PBS ran, I noticed that Nicholas Ralph naturally speaks with a very strong Scottish accent that he doesn't use in the show. Most of the other actors are English, so perhaps he intentionally uses a more "standard" English accent, or maybe the Scottish accent is stronger when he is speaking informally. 

He's Glaswegian - like the character, but it's a very strong accent that some find hard to understand, so he probably tones it down for the character for the sake of the viewing audience, who might complain otherwise. And in-universe we might say that James also tones down his Glaswegian for the sake of the Yorkshire farmers he has to work among!

2 hours ago, Driad said:

I'm wondering if they specifically objected to Scots, more than to English people from a similar distance away.

No, Yorkshire folk in the 1930s would not have any objection to a Scottish vet, beyond the standard rural mistrust for anyone who isn't local. He wouldn't be mistrusted for being Scottish.

[Blergh]

Yorkshire folks considered their communities and shire to be special in England while they considered themselves loyal English subjects, I don't think they'd have been automatically totally hostile to a Scotsman (their shire is roughly halfway between London and the Scottish border) but I think Mr. Herriot  would have had to have earned their individual trusts more than say someone from Cornwall (another proud shire but one that had been part of England for many centuries). I don't recall open hostility to James SOLELY due to his Scottishness, though. 

[Sharpie66]

5 hours ago, Llywela said:

He's Glaswegian - like the character, but it's a very strong accent that some find hard to understand, so he probably tones it down for the character for the sake of the viewing audience, who might complain otherwise.

When my mom and I were in Britain in 2012, we spent several days in Scotland, and the only people I met with an accent I could barely understand were a couple from Glasgow who we chatted with in a B&B near Inverness. Three days in Edinburgh and four days in Orkney, no problem, but that couple was really hard to follow!

[ECM1231]

On 2/21/2022 at 2:33 PM, Kenzie said:

Such a nice episode!

I liked the way the opening animated countryside credits/music had been changed to a snowy landscape to set the scene. And I just loved the use of all the simple Christmas decorations and paper chains and the use of lots of natural evergreen swags, holly and mistletoe.

100% in agreement. So lovely!

I was wondering if the Dales get a fair amount of snow. Also, the hubby remarked that there doesn't seem to be any trees. I'm not that observant with regard to detail, and hadn't noticed that before. 

[Blergh]

2 minutes ago, ECM1231 said:

100% in agreement. So lovely!

I was wondering if the Dales get a fair amount of snow. Also, the hubby remarked that there doesn't seem to be any trees. I'm not that observant with regard to detail, and hadn't noticed that before. 

Alas, it's true that centuries of farming  have cut  down the bulk of the Dales' trees so there is little if anything to stop icy winter winds from whipping through.  

[OlderThanDirt]

On a Rick Steves' tour of Scotland I sat next to our driver at dinner one night and could understand about 70%of his Glasgow accent. He had a wicked sense of humor.  He told me people from Glasgow were called Weegies. Lika good straight man, I asked,  "So what do you call people from Edinburgh? "  "Pathetic", was his reply.

[Llywela]

5 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

I was wondering if the Dales get a fair amount of snow. Also, the hubby remarked that there doesn't seem to be any trees. I'm not that observant with regard to detail, and hadn't noticed that before. 

Based on the four years my sister spent living there, yes, they get a lot of snow in Yorkshire. There are trees, but as @Blergh says, the area would have been heavily de-forested for farming purposes, not to mention that there would never have been a great deal of tree cover on the high fells to begin with, because of the altitude. Where on lower ground fields were marked by hedgerows, dry stone walling is more common on the high ground in Yorkshire, for that reason.

[Rickster]

“A lot of snow” can have different meanings. When I lived in the midwest, it could snow 1-3 inches a few times a week. Where I live in the northeast, it might snow once or twice a month, but it can be 6-12 inches or more. Not sure what is the case in Yorkshire.

I had to avert my eyes from the trees in full leaf in this episode, especially during the two drives up to the mansion that were shown. Or tell myself they were evergreens.

[Llywela]

23 minutes ago, Rickster said:

“A lot of snow” can have different meanings. When I lived in the midwest, it could snow 1-3 inches a few times a week. Where I live in the northeast, it might snow once or twice a month, but it can be 6-12 inches or more. Not sure what is the case in Yorkshire.

Where I live, on the coast of south Wales, we can go several winters in a row without seeing any snow at all; we've barely even had any hard frosts this winter. By comparison, when my sister lived in Yorkshire for those four years (she just left last summer) they had deep snow every winter, and it snowed frequently, although I can't say how frequently because I didn't keep a count, it just always seemed to be snowing whenever I heard from her through the winter months. And she lived in a town rather than on the high fells, where the show is set. In 1938 even main roads wouldn't have been gritted. Side roads to farms would be impassible by most vehicles on a regular basis in winter; in the book (I've only read the first one) he talks a lot about the appalling conditions in winter, having to drive as far as possible then abandon the car and continue on foot, wading through drifts and trying not to get lost.

[John Potts]

23 hours ago, Driad said:

I'm wondering if they specifically objected to Scots, more than to English people from a similar distance away.

Scots would definitely be preferable than (considerably closer) folk from Lancashire, Yorkshire's traditional rival.

Edited February 23, 2022 by John Potts

[DonnaMae]

16 hours ago, Sharpie66 said:

When my mom and I were in Britain in 2012, we spent several days in Scotland, and the only people I met with an accent I could barely understand were a couple from Glasgow who we chatted with in a B&B near Inverness. Three days in Edinburgh and four days in Orkney, no problem, but that couple was really hard to follow!

My husband and I had the same reaction to a young couple at a B&B near Loch Ness.  They were such nice people, but it was very difficult to understand what they were saying, and they were from Glasgow.  We never had that problem when we visited Edenborough.

[possibilities]

Snow shoes. When we lived somewhere that was snowbound in winter, snowshoes were a must. 

[Blergh]

One thing that must be kept in mind re this latter series: when the Original Series debuted in 1978, there were still quite a few Real Life counterparts,performers, writers, directors, and audience members who had living memories of what life was like in its initial timeframe of 1938 just forty years earlier . However,  in 2022, only a few audience members 85-years-old and older have those while none of the performers, writers or directors do(and all of the Real Life counterparts have since gotten their rewards). IOW, it's not as easy to get firsthand confirmation re how things would have happened these days as it would have been in 1978. And not all of us younger audience members have been lucky enough to have had folks with memories of that earlier era in our lives. 

[peacheslatour]

9 hours ago, Blergh said:

One thing that must be kept in mind re this latter series: when the Original Series debuted in 1978, there were still quite a few Real Life counterparts,performers, writers, directors, and audience members who had living memories of what life was like in its initial timeframe of 1938 just forty years earlier . However,  in 2022, only a few audience members 85-years-old and older have those while none of the performers, writers or directors do(and all of the Real Life counterparts have since gotten their rewards). IOW, it's not as easy to get firsthand confirmation re how things would have happened these days as it would have been in 1978. And not all of us younger audience members have been lucky enough to have had folks with memories of that earlier era in our lives. 

They have the source material. All they have to do is consult the books.

[Zella]

I don't think it's out of inadvertent ignorance.

There are hordes of historians and historical records that can be consulted. I was not alive for WWII or the American Civil War, but I can talk to you about them until I'm thrown into the snow. LOL

I think modern shows are very conscious about wanting likable characters, according to modern standards, so there's often an effort to ensure the characters seem more relatable, even if it results in characters having anachronistic attitudes. 

All Creatures isn't the only modern historical drama guilty of this. 

[Blergh]

While I agree that the current show COULD have relied more on the late Mr. Herriot's works as well as made a concerted effort to research via available historic media what life was like and how folks behaved in Yorkshire c.1938, one can't pretend that the virtual absence of firsthand knowledge of that place during that era had zero contributing factor re the lack of authenticity.

And I say this as someone who's studied history all the way back to the Mesopotamians and Egyptians, visited many monuments, archaelogical sites, historical buildings,etc.  on six continents as well as listened to family members' accounts of life during earlier eras- yet even with ALL this info, I can't pretend that my knowledge is the EXACT same as being able to give a firsthand account of what life was like in eras earlier than my own toddlerhood.

[possibilities]

If we can tell it's anachronistic, then the producers of the show can figure it out. This is a choice being made, not an inevitability.

[SusieQ]

I've read and enjoyed the books. I saw the original series and loved it. I understand that the new show is not faithful to either.

But what I come back to ever single time: am I enjoying what's on the screen now? Do I like these characters and want to spend time with them? The answer is a resounding YES! It's a pleasure to have a lovely show to look forward to. And I can't wait until series three.

[peacheslatour]

2 hours ago, SusieQ said:

I've read and enjoyed the books. I saw the original series and loved it. I understand that the new show is not faithful to either.

But what I come back to ever single time: am I enjoying what's on the screen now? Do I like these characters and want to spend time with them? The answer is a resounding YES! It's a pleasure to have a lovely show to look forward to. And I can't wait until series three.

Absolutely. I bitch about it but I love the show. Did you know Tricki Woo in the OG tv show was a white Pekingese? I can't picture him as anyone but Derek now.

[Blergh]

Yes, despite the show's flaws and anachronisms, all its regular characters are folks I've enjoyed watching and would want to have for friends in Real Life. 

[Kenzie]

When the three books in the series came out in the mid seventies they were all mega best sellers both in the UK and in America. The characters and stories would have been still fresh in everyone's mind when the TV series played in 1978. 

Maybe because I have read and reread these books so many times since then the changes really threw me (especially Mrs. Hall's new role.) But I've come to enjoy this new version and I am actually enjoying a toned-down Siegfried and a less ditsy Mrs. Pumphrey. 

[Blergh]

6 hours ago, Kenzie said:

When the three books in the series came out in the mid seventies they were all mega best sellers both in the UK and in America. The characters and stories would have been still fresh in everyone's mind when the TV series played in 1978. 

Maybe because I have read and reread these books so many times since then the changes really threw me (especially Mrs. Hall's new role.) But I've come to enjoy this new version and I am actually enjoying a toned-down Siegfried and a less ditsy Mrs. Pumphrey. 

I agree. Even though I've come to like how NS Mrs. Hall is emerging (and has become a genuine friend to even Helen's sis Jenny), I wish this series HAD someone like OS Mrs. Hall- a character of few words, gruff but a solid rock to all). 

However, I also like the somewhat 'toned-down Siegfriend and less ditzy Mrs. Pumphrey' (though I can't help but wonder if Dame Diana would have wound up taking the character on a deeper path than before had the late actress lived to Season Two- because she certainly had the capacity to have done so). And let me throw in a bonus of my own: I like Mr. Woodhouse's more competent, shrewder, sincerely loyal  yet still capable of goofy,comic relief Tristan. 

[Sharpie66]

It’s funny—in what vague memories I have of the original series, none of them include Peter Davison’s Tristan. As an old-school Doctor Who fan (since 1980), anything Davison in my head is the Doctor (oh, and his later role on Law & Order: UK). So, I don’t have anything to compare the new version to. But, I really like Woodhouse’s performance in the part—he is charmingly feckless, but vulnerable and wonderfully loyal, too.

[Zella]

I've really liked Woodhouse since the Durrells. He ended up being one of my absolute favorite characters on there. He does "brother who should be frustrating but is oddly likable" well. 

 

[Leeds]

 

On 2/22/2022 at 11:48 AM, tennisgurl said:

Same here! I have never read the books or seen the previous show, and while I have become interested in them I am going to wait until this show has ended so that I can continue to love this show without having anything to compare it to. 

 

Please do wait until the end of the show to read the books!  I'm kind of enjoying it (having read the books and seen the original) but at the same time I'm wishing they'd renamed it and the characters and just made it about vets in northern England with a Scottish newcomer.

 

On 2/23/2022 at 9:58 AM, DonnaMae said:

My husband and I had the same reaction to a young couple at a B&B near Loch Ness.  They were such nice people, but it was very difficult to understand what they were saying, and they were from Glasgow.  We never had that problem when we visited Edenborough.

Glaswegians are notorious for having (or exaggerating!) a stronger accent than Scots from, for example, Edinburgh.

 

[Leeds]

I'm sorry, but no-one is walking around barefoot in north Yorkshire in the middle of winter.  Your slippers are by your bed and you automatically put them on.  Having James and Tristan walk downstairs with bare feet is about as authentic as if they were naked.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Leeds
.

[Blergh]

3 hours ago, Leeds said:

I'm sorry, but no-one is walking around barefoot in northern Yorkshire in the middle of winter.  Your slippers are by your bed and you automatically put them on.  Having James and Tristan walk downstairs with bare feet is about as authentic as if they were naked.

Well, they weren't outside when they padded their way to Tricki's recovery room and there was nothing to indicate that they lingered more than a few minutes until they knew he was OK before scurrying back upstairs. Moreover Vikings were known to sail barefoot for long voyages in near freezing waters so it's not impossible that mid-20th century Britons to  have done the same on Christmas morning inside their houses. 

[possibilities]

I was worried Tricki would wake up and fall off the table. I was amazed they didn't put him in a box at least, if they were going to leave him unattended overnight.

[Daff]

On 2/22/2022 at 9:21 PM, Blergh said:

Alas, it's true that centuries of farming  have cut  down the bulk of the Dales' trees so there is little if anything to stop icy winter winds from whipping through.  

I’ve always noticed this lack of large sections of “forested” land surrounding the farms and figured that was an explanation for it. However, you would think farmers would have considered trees as windbreak protection for homes and outbuildings, as well as a grove here and there to provide shade for the animals. 

[Llywela]

37 minutes ago, Daff said:

I’ve always noticed this lack of large sections of “forested” land surrounding the farms and figured that was an explanation for it. However, you would think farmers would have considered trees as windbreak protection for homes and outbuildings, as well as a grove here and there to provide shade for the animals. 

The Yorkshire Dales are on high ground. Trees do not like the altitude. It is the reason their fields are marked out by dry stone walls rather than hedgerows. It is the reason they mostly farm cattle and sheep rather than grain. There would never have been much tree cover up there to begin with, because the land is unsuitable for that kind of vegetation. These farmers and their families have been working the land up there for, literally, generations. They know what their land can and cannot support, and extensive tree cover is one of the things it cannot support.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Llywela

[MrAtoz]

On 2/22/2022 at 11:15 AM, AZChristian said:

I loved "James" using a much more noticeable Scottish accent to quote the words to "Auld Lang Syne."

I did, as well.  Burns wrote in that dialect ("tak" for "take", "hae" for "have," etc.).  You pretty much have to adopt a Scots accent when you read him aloud.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Please do wait until the end of the show to read the books!  I'm kind of enjoying it (having read the books and seen the original) but at the same time I'm wishing they'd renamed it and the characters and just made it about vets in northern England with a Scottish newcomer.

I wish the same.

[MrAtoz]

On 2/27/2022 at 9:50 PM, Leeds said:

I'm kind of enjoying it (having read the books and seen the original) but at the same time I'm wishing they'd renamed it and the characters and just made it about vets in northern England with a Scottish newcomer.

I can understand that feeling.  But if they'd done that, I suspect that a lot of people would be saying "This is just All Creatures with the serial numbers filed off!"

I find it best to just think of this as a kind of alternate universe All Creatures.  Being a comic book geek helps with things like that. 😀