S03.E07: Unification III

[paulvdb]

Quote

While grappling with the fallout of her recent actions, and what her future might hold, Burnham agrees to represent the Federation in an intense debate about the release of politically sensitive but highly valuable Burn data.

 

[paigow]

Things have really changed if humans can join ancient Romulan organizations...

[ottoDbusdriver]

Really ?  Her mom ?  Really ?

[paigow]

3 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Really ?  Her mom ?  Really ?

Maybe a lot of "murder nuns" died in The Burn...so recruiting standards were relaxed....

[MissLucas]

Well, apart from making everything Spock achieved about his sister (stupid and not necessary) I quite liked this episode. I'm a bit confused though, the Admiral claimed that 'history forgot this (the relationship between Vulcans and Romulans) in your time'. I thought this had been known all through Star Trek.

•  Spock's sister!' - geez, the Admiral has been drinking the Cool Aid too!
• The actress playing T'Rina was really good even if she was at times rather emotional for a Vulcan. And is it just me or were there sparks flying between Saru and the President?
• Happy to see the Bene Gesserit Qowat Milat are still around. And since we've already seen that if needs be they interpret their code more as guidelines, I don't mind Mama Burnham taking the err... veil.
• Still happy that Burnham is struggling, and Mama forcing her to admit her conflict was actually a great scene, even though - or maybe because - Burnahm was seething underneath about Mama's 'betrayal'.
• The scenes with Book were all great. I loved him calling her out on her messiah complex and her replying in kind. 'You feel like home' was really touching, I think this is the first romance in ST that really works for me (sorry, Imzadi).
• I'm not entirely sure Tilly as temporary Number One makes sense but I loved the 'Say yes' scene, especially Burnham coming late and askind 'Did I miss the cool "Say yes" part?'. All the requests were great too. I wonder if the bed switching will really happen, he!
• Detmer is still a bit twitchy , maybe things will get better once the head in her fresher is fixed.
• No sighting of Georgiou - but one harsh Mama-figure per episode is enough. 
• Grudge!

[starri]

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

• The actress playing T'Rina was really good even if she was at times rather emotional for a Vulcan. And is it just me or were there sparks flying between Saru and the President?

 I loved her.  I was really surprised that she doesn't have a longer resume, just a lot of episodic TV work.  I hope we see T'Rina again.

I also loved the Quwot Milat on Picard and I'm glad they still have a place in the future...even if Sister Burnham was a little weird.

[thuganomics85]

Hey, at least the Vulcans and Romulans will finally find peace in the future!  Kind of.  It's a bit complicated!

Finally discover what happened to Mama Burnham: she apparently joined the Quwot Milat.  Not quite sure how that checks out, but at this point it might be best to just accept that The Burn really flipped everything upside down, leading to cultures being willing to bend and even break traditions if need be.  She definitely didn't make it easy for Michael during the trial or whatever it is called, but I'm not surprised that it still worked out for the Federation in the end, and helped Michael's relationship with her mother as well.

I also wonder if there was something more going on with Saru and the Vulcan President besides building a political condition.  Because for someone who is part of a race where they're suppose to keep their emotions buried, the Vulcan President certainly seemed to be giving off some vibes with him.  Saru getting his Kirk on!

I had actually wondered if they were going with Tilly as the acting first officer, since I really couldn't see anyone else in the Discovery crew working (I know Stamets outranked her, but I don't see Saru taking him away from engineering.)  Still think it won't be an easy ride for her, but it was nice of the crew (even Stamets!) supporting her at the end.

Looks like Book and Grudge are sticking around a bit longer!

Unsurprisingly, I loved the holo scene with the OG Spock (I think from his Next Generation episode, right?)  Leonard Nimoy truly was one of a kind.  And it's nice to know that it doesn't matter if Spock starts out as Zachary Quinto or Ethan Peck, he'll always become Nimoy at the end!

[Kromm]

2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

the Admiral claimed that 'history forgot this (the relationship between Vulcans and Romulans) in your time'. I thought this had been known all through Star Trek.

Incorrect.  It was a major point in TOS that the crew of The Enterprise was shocked by the physical resemblance between the Vulcans and the Romulans. 

I can't recall, but I think Star Trek Enterprise may have had THAT crew finding it out, leading to an inconsistency, but I suppose we have to chalk that up to certain information getting classified and hidden. 

[Kromm]

17 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

I had actually wondered if they were going with Tilly as the acting first officer, since I really couldn't see anyone else in the Discovery crew working (I know Stamets outranked her, but I don't see Saru taking him away from engineering.)  

It's one of the most absurd things this show has done. I know it's a reduced crew size but there have to be a dozen officers sight unseen out ranking her. Then again the stupid newer movies had Kirk jumping like 5 ranks. Ugh. 

[Lebanna]

Well, and ‘Ensign’ Wesley Crusher. Stupid over-promotion has been a feature of ST for some time.

 

[paigow]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

Saru getting his Kirk on!

Is there a Kelpian equivalent of Pon Farr? Dude has not had any action for 1000 years...

[paigow]

1 hour ago, Kromm said:

Incorrect.  It was a major point in TOS that the crew of The Enterprise was shocked by the physical resemblance between the Vulcans and the Romulans.

But Spock knew what to expect before Uhura hacked the video feed, just decided not to give any one a heads up...

[Kromm]

35 minutes ago, paigow said:

But Spock knew what to expect before Uhura hacked the video feed, just decided not to give any one a heads up...

Even if so, the Federation/Starfleet as a whole didn't know. Whatever logs Archer left about this clearly got classified, and whatever Vulcans knew, didn't talk much about it. It's another weird loophole, like who knew about Trill Symbiotes, and when. All screwed up between shows. 

[paigow]

7 hours ago, MissLucas said:

•  Spock's sister!' - geez, the Admiral has been drinking the Cool Aid too!

Why does anybody know about Burnham?

Everyone on Pike!Enterprise had to sign an NDA. TNG Sarek & Spock never mentioned her to Picard, so where is the link? Why does anyone believe it?

[UnoAgain]

35 minutes ago, paigow said:

Why does anybody know about Burnham?

Everyone on Pike!Enterprise had to sign an NDA. TNG Sarek & Spock never mentioned her to Picard, so where is the link? Why does anyone believe it?

Nda doesn't mean somebody somewhere didn't record it for the history books... As for Spock/Vulcan... Well its his sister I imagine at some point he told some other folks back home 

[Kromm]

34 minutes ago, paigow said:

Why does anybody know about Burnham?

Everyone on Pike!Enterprise had to sign an NDA. TNG Sarek & Spock never mentioned her to Picard, so where is the link? Why does anyone believe it?

First, the ship has records and passed them on to Starfleet. 

Second, they didn't erase Burnham from history. Just her role on Discovery and where she disappeared to. Her service before that was still in the records. 

Also, her mother was around. So the Vulcans and Romulans at least had another source of information. 

[wanderingstar]

Really enjoyed this episode!

I LOVE that Gabrielle Burnham is in the Qowat Milat. That is just perfect. And I appreciated her pushing Michael to be more honest.

I was fascinated by Ni'Var and the throughline from TNG's Unification episodes (and not gonna lie, I got a little thrill seeing the brief recording of Ambassador Spock).

I'm digging Admiral Vance and the energy he brings to the show. He started out as an antagonist, but he seems to have come around to the value having Discovery in the fleet. Also, Oded Fehr is great in the role.

Quote

And is it just me or were there sparks flying between Saru and the President?

Not just you. I found myself kinda of shipping them.

[Stardancer Supreme]

This episode gave me all the feels.  I squeed when the Quwot Milat sister turned out to be Mama Burnham! I love Sonja Sohn.

Of course Book is going to stick around.  Is he and Grudge confined to his ship? That's crappy.

I was a little surprised that Saru went with Tilly as his Acting Number One.  Could she get promoted from Ensign now? 

I'm also a bit surprised that Georgiou didn't pop up when mentioned.  I guess we will see what's up with her next episode.

I figured Mama Burnham's grilling of Michael had to be for another purpose. That was triggering; mother wounds are the worst kind!  At least now Michael's wound can finally heal.

I would love to revisit Ni'Var and their council.  V'Kir seems quite as sassy as the president. 

 

[ACW]

Wow, it's been a while since I was here. But I want to to ask:

  Am I the only one who's really annoyed that Michael and Sari are unreservedly vouching for the nobility and trustworthiness of an organization whose current incarnation they barely know?  Especially since they knew about Section 31 even back in their own time? For all they know, Section 31 caused the Burn, and is all that survived.  At minimum, we've at least got Evil Admiral Syndrome to worry about.

  And I'm *more* annoyed at the Vulcromulans for not really calling them on it.

 

[Quilt Fairy]

I was totally confused by this episode.  I thought (foolishly as it turns out) that Burnham was going to have to defend her theory about the Burn, which would justify her need for the SB-19 data.  Instead, everyone apparently already knows everything she would have said, and instead she must defend that she is doing "The Right Thing" for "The Right Reason". 

And I am flustered by the totally inconsistent scientific "rules":  FTL speed for a spaceship is not possible in this post-dilithium crystal universe (Discovery with its spore drive being the exception) and yet the Ni'Var knew not only that the Discovery was coming, but all of Burnham's research as well. 

[AnimeMania]

That Burnham and Book scene should have ended with Michael saying "Oh, I almost forgot, my mother is on board and she would like to speak to you."

[paigow]

49 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

and yet the Ni'Var knew not only that the Discovery was coming, but all of Burnham's research as well. 

Admiral sent a subspace message with a PowerPoint attachment...

[Llywela]

20 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Well, apart from making everything Spock achieved about his sister (stupid and not necessary) I quite liked this episode. I'm a bit confused though, the Admiral claimed that 'history forgot this (the relationship between Vulcans and Romulans) in your time'. I thought this had been known all through Star Trek.

•  Spock's sister!' - geez, the Admiral has been drinking the Cool Aid too!

As mentioned up-thread, the public reveal of the historical relationship between Vulcans and Romulans came after Discovery's time.

And I'm not sure what you mean about Cool Aid. Michael is Spock's sister. She was adopted by his parents. Adopted siblings are real siblings.

18 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I also wonder if there was something more going on with Saru and the Vulcan President besides building a political condition.  Because for someone who is part of a race where they're suppose to keep their emotions buried, the Vulcan President certainly seemed to be giving off some vibes with him.  Saru getting his Kirk on!

I had actually wondered if they were going with Tilly as the acting first officer, since I really couldn't see anyone else in the Discovery crew working (I know Stamets outranked her, but I don't see Saru taking him away from engineering.)  Still think it won't be an easy ride for her, but it was nice of the crew (even Stamets!) supporting her at the end.

Me too - I never ship, but even I found myself low-key shipping them!

Tilly as acting first officer just seems weird to me. She is among the lowest ranked officers on the ship, and is not generally based on the bridge. One of the bridge lieutenants would have been a better choice. But I guess the first officer has to be main cast, and Stamets was never going to either get the offer or accept it!

13 hours ago, paigow said:

Why does anybody know about Burnham?

Everyone on Pike!Enterprise had to sign an NDA. TNG Sarek & Spock never mentioned her to Picard, so where is the link? Why does anyone believe it?

Discovery handed all their files over to Starfleet upon arrival, and the senior crew were all interrogated to ascertain that they were who they claimed to be. That's how the Admiral knows all about Michael's complex family history. Of course he'd make himself familiar with the backstories of all the principle officers of this significant new crew, he'd be derelict in his duty if he didn't. And we were told that Discovery also made their unique situation known to Nivar before arrival, because it was felt that Michael's relationship with Spock would be a useful diplomatic tool for the mission.

[MissLucas]

1 hour ago, Llywela said:

And I'm not sure what you mean about Cool Aid. Michael is Spock's sister. She was adopted by his parents. Adopted siblings are real siblings.

I didn't question their relationship, but the Admiral's sudden enthusiasm for Burnham - i.e. the Cool Aid refers to yet another character acting as if Burnham is walking on water; something that happens every episode. We had Nhan, Culber and Tilly serenading Burnham in previous episodes, which was annoying, but they do have a relationship with her and know her so there's some justification. For the Admiral she's still a wild-card with little respect for the chain of command, that just the other day disobeyed a direct order. His joyful reaction was jarring after last week's justified annoyance with Burnham. Granted in this scenario Burnham's relationship to Spock is an asset, but he was almost jumping with joy at the realization. A more grudging admission that yes, she could succeed where others have failed, would have been more in character. I don't know if this was a choice by the actor or the director or if the writing is to blame, but it took me right out of the scene. 

[Llywela]

1 minute ago, MissLucas said:

I didn't question their relationship, but the Admiral's sudden enthusiasm for Burnham - i.e. the Cool Aid refers to yet another character acting as if Burnham is walking on water; something that happens every episode. We had Nhan, Culber and Tilly serenading Burnham in previous episodes, which was annoying, but they do have a relationship with her and know her so there's some justification. For the Admiral she's still a wild-card with little respect for the chain of command, that just the other day disobeyed a direct order. His joyful reaction was jarring after last week's justified annoyance with Burnham. Granted in this scenario Burnham's relationship to Spock is an asset, but he was almost jumping with joy at the realization. A more grudging admission that yes, she could succeed where others have failed, would have been more in character. I don't know if this was a choice by the actor or the director or if the writing is to blame, but it took me right out of the scene. 

Ah, gotcha. The Admiral has expressed reservations about Burnham previously, but here my sense was that he recognised her family connection as an unparalleled opportunity. Also, I get the sense that her dogged determination to learn more about the Burn is slowly but surely awakening something long buried in the Admiral himself, perhaps. He's spent his career managing the situation as it is, no resource to spare for more deep and meaningful ponderings on what the Federation has lost. But out of the blue, out pops this entire crew of living anachronisms fresh from the Federation's glory days, to whom that glorious past is a living, breathing thing, and against his better judgement, he finds that inspiring, they've given him hope he never thought possible. They certainly offer him possibilities he'd never before dreamed of. And Spock's sister, yes, is one of those possibilities - Nivar severed its relationship with the Federation before he was born, so he's always simply accepted that status quo as irrevocable, but Michael represents a possible foot through the door, because of her relationship with Spock, so I can see why he'd allow himself to be a little excited by the possibilities there, especially given Michael's fervour.

I don't have a problem with Michael. I know many fans do, but most shows of this nature twist and contort themselves to constantly remind viewers who the hero is, so the way Michael is talked up on Discovery doesn't seem any more egregious than any other example of the same phenomenon. My only real bugbear with Michael is the way she delivers all her lines in that breathy, melodramatic whisper instead of just talking normally!

[MissLucas]

15 minutes ago, Llywela said:

My only real bugbear with Michael is the way she delivers all her lines in that breathy, melodramatic whisper instead of just talking normally!

Ditto! Maybe I like Book so much because Sonequa Martin-Green uses a more natural cadence with him.

[Stardancer Supreme]

10 hours ago, ACW said:

Wow, it's been a while since I was here. But I want to to ask:

  Am I the only one who's really annoyed that Michael and Sari are unreservedly vouching for the nobility and trustworthiness of an organization whose current incarnation they barely know?  Especially since they knew about Section 31 even back in their own time? For all they know, Section 31 caused the Burn, and is all that survived.  At minimum, we've at least got Evil Admiral Syndrome to worry about.

  And I'm *more* annoyed at the Vulcromulans for not really calling them on it.

 

I would hope that Admiral Vance is merely an opportunist and will not potentially become evil.  

[Kromm]

1 hour ago, Llywela said:

I don't have a problem with Michael. I know many fans do, but most shows of this nature twist and contort themselves to constantly remind viewers who the hero is, so the way Michael is talked up on Discovery doesn't seem any more egregious than any other example of the same phenomenon. My only real bugbear with Michael is the way she delivers all her lines in that breathy, melodramatic whisper instead of just talking normally!

Most people will get massively offended and forcefully state they have other reasons for hating certain characters, so this is thorny territory. But I've noticed over time that female characters in this franchise get much bigger expectations placed on them, and so also get slammed a lot more for intangibles.  Kirk was the end all be all focus of most TOS plot lines, the one the show bent itself into a pretzel to align with everything. So there's a history from the beginning. But when it's done for the female lead of this show, when she's TOO central, TOO passionate, TOO much the manipulated solution to every problem, people hate her.  Not universally for those reasons, but enough it's a clear pattern. That's not even saying it's wrong to hate a character written that way. Just that more people, more easily, seem to act visibly, publicly angry about it. 

[LJones41]

Quote

I had actually wondered if they were going with Tilly as the acting first officer, since I really couldn't see anyone else in the Discovery crew working (I know Stamets outranked her, but I don't see Saru taking him away from engineering.)  

 

This is just plain stupid.  Tilly is an ensign.  And she is definitely NOT a Bridge officer.  What are the writers going with this?

[paigow]

When a rogue cloaked ship attack puts Saru in Sickbay, is Tilly going to Kobyashi Maru? Or will Burnham save the day?

[Joimiaroxeu]

An awful lot of upfront exposition in this episode. Maybe too much for someone like me who isn't rigorously versed in Star Trek lore and canon.

I thought it was kind of a heavy-handed way to make it okay to promote Tilly to first officer despite her being far from best qualified. I'm fine with it though. She'll bring a lighter personality to the job than Michael.

Grudge! Good kitty. But sigh, why do I feel like Book isn't going to make past the end of the season, if that far?

[marinw]

Vulcan has geo engineered  some oceans in the past millennium.

I may have teared up a little at the holo of Spock and the mention of Picard.

Edited November 28, 2020 by marinw

[Biggie B]

59 minutes ago, marinw said:

 

I may have teared up a little at the holo of Spock and the mention of Picard.

Definitely felt a tug on my heartstrings.

[LJones41]

Quote

I thought it was kind of a heavy-handed way to make it okay to promote Tilly to first officer despite her being far from best qualified. I'm fine with it though. She'll bring a lighter personality to the job than Michael.

 

What?  A lighter personality than Michael's?  This is supposed to make Tilly more qualified as acting XO/Captain?  Tilly sounds as if she is more qualified to be a morale officer or a cruise director.

Edited November 28, 2020 by LJones41

[paigow]

21 minutes ago, LJones41 said:

Tilly sounds as if she is more qualified to be a morale officer

Neelix 2.0

[KimberStormer]

I really like this episode, maybe my favorite so far, and that is a funny thing to say, since so many Discovery weaknesses were on display.  Once again, it's All About Michael and her Relationship With Spock; Tilly is a ridiculous choice for First Officer; people are super overdramatic always; the plot depends on so many coincidences and stretched possibilities; etc.  And yet!  It was so good.  Mommy Burnham is just such a great character, it doesn't even matter that her being where she is is almost unfathomable.  Sonja Sohn, who I haven't seen in anything else, really elevates the show whenever she's on, it's extraordinary.  I would really have preferred a show about Mommy Burnham, tbh.  As an over-analytical Survivor fan I can only see this episode as an incredible display by a remarkable strategic mind: offscreen, Gabrielle Burnham hears her kid is alive and has finally arrived, so you'd think she'd be overcome with emotions, but she hears what Michael is here for and immediately, knowing what she knows about the political situation on Ni'Var, comes up with a plan to achieve that objective by manipulating Michael into making the right moves in this weird court thing, and all under the restriction of having to tell the absolute truth.  Masterful!  And I just love how out of all of Michael's moms, she is actually the least sentimental and coddling, the most ruthless, even more than Georgiou.  It's really cool how, as my sister said to me, none of the mother figures is either a Wicked Queen nor a saint (although Amanda was sometimes sort of close to that.)

And it even was maybe the first time in this whole show when the Spock thing worked for me.  The record of Spock's words in Reunification (an episode I never really cared for, partly because I found Evil Tasha Yar so silly) was unexpectedly moving, as was the fact that Michael was just so proud of him.  My cold black heart grew two sizes for this stuff.  I found the whole Ni'Var scenario a better use of Vulcans than anything since Tuvok.  Could be a fruitful source of stories, if only they don't hit the Reset Button on the whole Burn.

I also agree with everyone who liked T'Rina, and her relationship with Saru.  I was like "she and Saru are gonna be bros, which is great because Saru needs a pal" but by the end I was getting the ship ready to sail just like the rest of us.  That whole plotline was another great Captain Saru moment, really made him look great. 

In contrast to his making Tilly First Officer, which makes him look very silly.  An extremely weak plot, and although "did I miss the cool 'say yes' part?" was great, the scene as a whole was another "the bridge crew have nothing better to do than stand in groups validating our heroes!" moment.  Replacement Airiam says "Say yes," that really carries a lot of weight!  We know so much about her, and why her judgment is important here!

Book having in his contract 1 shirtless scene per episode is not getting any complaints from me.  I hope he and Michael can find a Sisko/Kassidy Yates work/life balance.

[KimberStormer]

On 11/26/2020 at 9:09 PM, ACW said:

Vulcromulans

btw this is the canon name now as far as I'm concerned

[GustavMahler]

I am developing the fine skill of how to use the fast forward button to efficiently skip the predictable tripe and cliche’ story telling this show serves up...FFW through first meeting, stop at interlude, yup it didn’t go well. FFW through second meeting, stop at conclusion, yup it went well. FFW through all teary eye hugfest crap and all the “will Tilly or wont Tilly” CW drama because, I could not give a Fiddler’s chance what the outcome was. The one bright spot of seeing Leonard Nimoy made it worthwhile. A Cliff Notes 10 minute viewing of this 50 minute piece of juvenile sensibilities is all that is required.

Edited November 28, 2020 by GustavMahler

[Helena Dax]

On 11/27/2020 at 5:01 PM, Kromm said:

Most people will get massively offended and forcefully state they have other reasons for hating certain characters, so this is thorny territory. But I've noticed over time that female characters in this franchise get much bigger expectations placed on them, and so also get slammed a lot more for intangibles.  Kirk was the end all be all focus of most TOS plot lines, the one the show bent itself into a pretzel to align with everything. So there's a history from the beginning. But when it's done for the female lead of this show, when she's TOO central, TOO passionate, TOO much the manipulated solution to every problem, people hate her.  Not universally for those reasons, but enough it's a clear pattern. That's not even saying it's wrong to hate a character written that way. Just that more people, more easily, seem to act visibly, publicly angry about it. 

I try to be aware of that bias, but I can honestly say that with this character sometimes it feels "too much". I think the writing is terrible, which hurts her character. Yes, Kirk was always the hero, but it's easier to overlook when the writing is tight and the characters are great (Kirk, Spock and McCoy). In my opinion, Discovery has lots of problems and Michael is only one of them (and not the worst). For example, to me, Tilly becoming first officer seemed absolutely forced. Stamets has had zero interactions with Michael or Saru this season. After three seasons of DS9, I certainly knew the names of all the characters, but three seasons of Discovery and the bridge crew is still the bridge crew, simply background, and all of them together have less of a personality than Chekov or Sulu. I think this show could be great, but the writing needs to improve.

 

 

 

 

 

[Quark]

Another great episode. I'm really enjoying this season.

[paigow]

This show lacks compelling antagonists. Consequently, the protagonists suffer.

Where is Loki, Hans Gruber, Boyd Crowder?

Edited November 28, 2020 by paigow

[tkc]

Enjoyed this episode, with the tie-in references. Nice to hear the acknowledgment of the late Anton Yelchin (Chekov from the Abrams universe) with a starship named USS Yelchin.

The series is starting to feel more like TNG Trek, but I feel like there was a missed opportunity to pay homage... where was the arrogant Federation diplomat who would disagree with the captain, remove him from command, screw up royally, and then need to be put it their place by said captain? Not that ever happened in TOS...

Seriously, though, why has Starfleet not assigned even one observer to Discovery? We had Lt. Willa for a couple of episodes, but surely future Starfleet would like to have more fingers in the spore drive pie/goo?

[Stardancer Supreme]

I'd like to think that Admiral Vance doesn't want Discovery to see how many pies and what type of pies he has his hands in.  Starfleet, in its current form, is definitely not the Starfleet of old.  I'm sure there is a lot of sketchy things going on that Discovery just might stumble onto that will make them pause.

In light of all the outrage about Tilly being XO, I can see why Saru made that choice.  Tilly is the closest to Saru next to Michael.  Tilly has the smarts to do the job, and Tilly is one of the few crew members not completely messed up as a result of the time travel trip.  Does Starfleet even have a training program now? All I want is for Tilly to be promoted so she can continue the path to eventually become captain.  As it is, she is only warming the seat until Michael comes back to it or someone else that Saru trusts takes the position, if that decision isn't taken out of his hands. 

[Quilt Fairy]

5 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

All I want is for Tilly to be promoted so she can continue the path to eventually become captain.

Is that really Tilly's career path, though?  We see her far more often helping Stamets on the spore drive than on the bridge.  She seems better suited to be a scientist.  I can't think of anyone I'd want less as my Captain, and that includes Saru. 

[paigow]

9 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

I'd like to think that Admiral Vance doesn't want Discovery to see how many pies and what type of pies he has his hands in.

Like brain-hacking Georgiou and countless others...

[Llywela]

9 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Is that really Tilly's career path, though?  We see her far more often helping Stamets on the spore drive than on the bridge.  She seems better suited to be a scientist.  I can't think of anyone I'd want less as my Captain, and that includes Saru. 

Tilly's ambition has always been to become a captain one day. She told Michael as much way back at the start of S1 and has been working toward that goal ever since. She's been based out of engineering because that's her current role. But she joined the command training programme for a reason.

As far as not knowing much about the bridge crew goes, that's because the bridge crew are not the main cast of this show. We've always known that. They are background supporting characters, like Joe Carey in Voyager, or like O'Brien and Keiko were in TNG.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

What?  A lighter personality than Michael's? 

Yes. I mean, Michael could make an hour's worth of drama out what to eat for breakfast. Sometimes she gets in the way of herself by overthinking, IMO.

Quote

This is supposed to make Tilly more qualified as acting XO/Captain? 

It wasn't my suggestion that Tilly is more qualified; clearly she isn't on just a technical basis. I think she brings certain different skills to the job that in certain circumstances could be more helpful than Michael's often self-righteous (again, IMO) stoicism.

[MissLucas]

Tilly's promotion makes little to no sense with regards to seniority. But with the exception of Stamets we really don't know much about all the other characters who outrank Tilly. It could have been an interesting choice to bring in someone (relatively) new but the writers were clearly not interested in doing so.

But character-wise I have no problems, she stated that she wanted to become Captain one day. And in the second episode it was clear that Saru values her approach to the unknown and danger a great deal - they share a lot of character traits. That in itself could be problematic but Saru tried a Number One with a more ahem... robust approach to life and it did not work out that well. 

The question is: how long will Tilly hold Number One? I doubt it lasts even to the end of this season and I dread all scenarios that my brain is cooking up for this subplot.

 

 

[tennisgurl]

I certainly didn't expect to see a sequel episode to Unification from TNG, but I am certainly happy to see it. I admit to getting some good chills seeing the footage of Leonard Nimoy, he really was a treasure. We also got a Picard reference and got to see how the nuns of absolute candor are doing in the future, and they have gotten even more recognition in the Vulcan/Romulan world, which is awesome to see. It sucks that the Vulcans have left the Federation, thinking of the Federation without anyone saying "logic" every five seconds is just weird, but its nice to know that Spocks dream of uniting the Romulans and the Vulcans uniting again finally worked out...mostly. Its still clearly a work in progress, but its something. I suppose the Romulans were probably more amenable to joining again after losing Romulas. 

I know that by Trek law the main characters have to do pretty much everything, but it does seem to be a bit much that Tilly is going to be the next Number One, considering she never even finished officer training and is probably one of the lowest ranking officers on the ship. Yeah she traveled through time, but so did everyone else, and you kind of wonder if a few of the officers above Tilly are a bit secretly annoyed. Of course, if it comes down to who has the best rapport with Saru or Michael, then Tilly is definitely the best choice. I love Tilly though, and she did say she wants to be a captain one day, so I can see why he went with her. Plus she is kind of a jack of all trades so she can kind of jump in lots of places, unlike, say, Stamets, who is very focused on engineering. Of course Stamets is already raising a big ass eyebrow at taking orders from Tilly, but is still going to support her. 

I am glad that Book and Grudge are sticking around, he and Michael are really great together, she seems so relaxed around him. I hope that he can interact with some of the rest of the crew soon, I think that could be a lot of fun. 

I liked President T'Rina, and I think I saw a lot of chemistry between her and Saru, they seemed to have a really nice back and fourth. Possibly as pals, or possibly more? Saru has never really had much of a love life, he could probably use a few nights out. He could really use more people in his life besides the other officers. 

Nice seeing Mama Burnham again, I can totally see her getting along with the Quwot Milat, she is certainly a very direct sort of person. Glad that she and Michael got to talk, even if things got awkward more than once. 

I continue to really like Admiral Vance, he is becoming more supportive of Discovery now that they have increasingly proved their worth and their good intentions, but is still being cautious. Interesting that this week, finding out that they actually have some real progress on figuring out The Burn, he has gotten way more exciting about Michaels mission to find out what really happened, and seems more ready to back Discovery on this whole "bring the Federation back to its former glory" plan. You get the impression that this is a guy who has spent his whole career putting out little fires and just trying to keep everything running as best as it can, but now, meeting these new people who possibly have the way to not only put out the little fires and keep everything running, but actually put out the big fire and work on not just keeping going, but actually expanding the Federation again, he is actually becoming cautiously optimistic that this can really happen, they can really get closer to bringing the Federation closer to what it used to be. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by tennisgurl

[Ottis]

On 11/27/2020 at 7:06 AM, MissLucas said:

didn't question their relationship, but the Admiral's sudden enthusiasm for Burnham - i.e. the Cool Aid refers to yet another character acting as if Burnham is walking on water; something that happens every episode.

Well, it didn't happen so much the first three episodes of this season, which made this season my favorite. It reared its head on the Trill world, and since then, you are right, we are back to Michael being a Special Snowflake. And it is so disappointing to me.

Because aside from the Michael Worship, this season of Discovery is filled with a lot of love and purpose. It's like someone finally "got" that Star Trek is about ideals and the people who uphold them, and the connection and interaction of those people. The Federation has never been perfect, but overall its goals are noble and it has stood as a beacon for planets and species who want to grow. I love that. It's why some of those references this season bring a tear to my eye.

As did the "say yes" scene. People who support each other, trying to do the right thing for the group. Even if the Vulcan/Romulans no longer believe "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" (and how many thousands of viewers, at that moment, in their heads said, "... or the one"?). 

If any of the Discovery crew people want to lock Michael in the brig for a while, until everyone agrees that her every utterance and desire isn't magical and necessary, I would be OK with that. Book and Grudge can join her, I'm not heartless.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Ottis