S04.E11: Storia Americana

[paigow]

SEASON FINALE

Ebal teaches Loy a lesson about business, Josto gets revenge and Oraetta comes clean.

Airdate: Nov 28 / 20

Edited November 23, 2020 by paigow

[AimingforYoko]

The war ended exactly the way it was supposed to. If it had ended any other way it would have been unrealistic, even for the Fargo universe.

I was waiting for the Zelmaire shoe to drop the whole episode. It figured it would be when Loy was just starting to appreciate what he had.

Nice to see Bokeem Woodbine, but I kinda wish they hadn't spelled it out so explicitly.

[Suzysite]

I'm a little confused by older Ethelrida and the suitcases under that big painting.  Symbolism I'm missing?

Edited November 30, 2020 by Suzysite

[AimingforYoko]

4 minutes ago, Suzysite said:

I'm a little confused by older Ethelrida and the suitcases under that big painting.

I'm pretty sure Ethelrida is the author of True Crime in the Mid-West.

[thuganomics85]

Interesting that this episode was one of the shorter ones, compared to the earlier episodes.  It's like Noah Hawley is able to get to his endings quicker than setting everything up at the start.

I guess it was wrapped up enough in a satisfactory matter, by once again showing how how various coincidences and random moments can end up coming together and playing a part in someone's (or someones) fate, while also showing that despite all of the posturing and bloodshed, none of the leaders of the main gangs actually "win."  Josto's failure to realize what kind of monster Mayflower was ends up biting him in the ass, as the mafia assumes that he was secretly working with her to kill his father, and both of them end up dead in a ditch somewhere (although Mayflower at least got the smug satisfaction to watch him die first.)  Meanwhile, despite all of his politicking and maneuvering, Loy watches as it all ends up meaning nothing, since the Italian Mafia dwarfs his gang with ease, and they basically take whatever they want.  Oh, and then he dies by the one person he didn't see coming: a vengeful Zelmare.  Yeah, that seems to be a fitting end for all of these characters.

I will say that despite my overall misgivings over his performance this season, Loy's reaction to finding out that Satchel was still alive was Chris Rock's best work yet.

The opening montage of all the dead characters was nice, even if it just made me realize how much I missed Rabbi.  And Doctor Senator.  And Deafy...

Loved seeing Mike/Bokeem Woodbine at the end, although I wonder if that was a brand new scene or was it taken from Season Two?

I don't know: I won't go as far as to say that this season was horrible and I did think the last two episodes helped end things on a stronger note, but I was underwhelmed with this season once again.  Which means in this show's four season run, I found it to have two good, even great seasons (season two in particular might be one of my favorite seasons of all television), but it is countered by two that are mixed at best, but underwhelming at worst.  I won't deny Noah Hawley's talent, but I'm not sure if the fault lies with him not trying hard enough with season three and season four (due to other work, perhaps?) or maybe trying too hard, and not having someone to keep him in line.  But in this case, I think it was an issue of just having too many characters and not really letting his talented cast shine (still think the likes of Ben Whishaw, Glynn Turman, and Timothy Olyphant came out best.  Jessie Buckley and Jack Huston were probably right behind them, despite me not being impressed with the Mayflower or Odis characters), and the story being underwhelming.  Judging from my reaction to the final shot, I think I would have rather they just focused on Rabbi and Satchel and made this a full-blown Mike Milligan origin story.

[Kiddvideo]

9 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

I'm pretty sure Ethelrida is the author of True Crime in the Mid-West.

I could believe that. The book had stilted prose such as, "...and that, dear reader, is how....' and I can hear her voice. That means she's alive for a while after 1979 since the book included Ed and Peggy. (I don't recall it having anything about 1986.) Still wondering who she was presenting the report to as an adult.

I guess the overarching theme this season would be how American culture is dependent on constant change in favor of whatever is newer even if it's not always better? I wouldn't say that was uniquely American, though. I'm still trying to get my head around it.

My favorite part of the season was Josto's reaction when Oraetta wanted him killed first.

[LittleIggy]

Wow, Johnny Cash. Hearing him brought tears to my eyes. Anyone know the name of that song?

Didn’t see the consigliere taking over. Got his own stationary made up fast!

I knew Loy would be hit when he was standing there. I was wondering where Zelmare was. The oranges reminded me of The Godfather. I’m glad he sent the Fadda kid home.

I enjoyed the season for all its faults. 

[Dev F]

1 hour ago, AimingforYoko said:

I'm pretty sure Ethelrida is the author of True Crime in the Mid-West.

That book's author was a British guy named Brixby, voiced by Martin Freeman, wasn't it?

I suppose we could construct some elaborate explanation by which Brixby was her pen name and the British guy was the person she was pretending to be when she took that name -- but doesn't taking the identity of a snooty Englishman undermine Ethelrida's whole program, by which she takes it upon herself as a mixed-race, working-class young woman to tell her own story?

I thought the point was more that this season wasn't another tale from The History of True Crime in the Mid West -- that it was the story Ethelrida had to grow up and tell, because Brixby wouldn't have done it justice.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Vito Andolini status for Loy's death?  A disgrace.

The Mike reveal?  When last we saw him, he was utterly miserable in that small office.  He suffered the exact same professional fate that his Dad did.  But, Hawley shows him on the open road and seemingly satisfied.  Satchel escaped there once with his dog.  There's no escaping the mob, or if you prefer, your fate.  That's America.  At least that's what Hawley preaches.

I was not buying for one second the joyful awareness and acceptance of Loy as he watched his family.  He was too far gone and he had just been handed a fate worse than death.  Sure, he was happy to have his boy home and relative peace for his family.  But, that was too cheap a redemption.  No sale.

My recollection of the scene where Josto asked Oral-etta to handle the death of his father was that it was entirely menacing.  If we were to accept his protestations, we would be denying what we were shown.  Oh, right.  This whole effort was a deception.  Silly me.

I will give TPTB credit for never giving up an opportunity to be gory for gore's sake.  It makes it easier to dismiss them as empty and cliche storytellers who disdain their audience.

 

[Utpe]

I think Chris Rock was horribly miscast.  Felt like he was going to break out in one of his comedy routines half of the time.

[The Wild Sow]

4 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The Mike reveal?  When last we saw him, he was utterly miserable in that small office.  He suffered the exact same professional fate that his Dad did.  But, Hawley shows him on the open road and seemingly satisfied.  Satchel escaped there once with his dog.  There's no escaping the mob, or if you prefer, your fate.  That's America.  At least that's what Hawley preaches.

Sure - Mike Milligan, for all his charm & all how much we like him & want to root for him (and root for Satchel!) - is a criminal! Criminals don’t get a happy ending in the Fargoverse.

I’m fairly sure the scene with Mike in the car - with a Kitchen Brother driving -was supposed to be the beginning of Season 2, with Mike reminiscing about walking a similar road as a boy.

[cardigirl]

Not for nothing, but I wished someone would have taken Zelmare out from the beginning. Never felt an ounce of sympathy for that character, particularly after Deafy talked to Ethelrida about the crimes she had been convicted of. 

Guess we weren't really supposed to be rooting for anyone, but those two young boys that got switched.  So glad Satchel and his dog made it home safe. 

 

[Crashcourse]

Well, at least this shitshow season is finally over.   It was nice to see Mike Milligan/Bokeem Woodbine at the end though.

I'm just sorry that crazy-eyed Zelmare didn't get taken out but I suspect she'll go out in a hail of bullets somewhere down the road.  I hope Mike found her and killed her. 

 

[Blakeston]

Satchel's unemotional response to his father's death was chilling. My interpretation was that the traumas he'd experienced had drained all of the empathy out of him - leading to him winding up as the ruthless criminal we saw in season two.

[tennisgurl]

I didn't think we would actually see Mike/Bokeem Woodbine at the end, I thought it would end with Satchel leaving home and telling someone that his name is Michael Milligan or something, leaving behind his old life, but I think this still works as a Mike Milligan origin story. I think that the scene in the car was him starting to head towards season two, contemplating the road that he walked on as a kid. Nice seeing Bokeem Wookeem again anyway, and confirmation of the "Satchel is Mike" theory. 

The last few episodes were an improvement on the earlier episodes, I found this ending to be mostly satisfying, and I wouldn't say that this was a bad season, but it felt rather underwhelming and disjointed. It had a lot of good and interesting ideas, but I don't think that they were explored as well as they could have been. I think that the theme of the season was about history and how people are still affected by it no matter how much times goes on, as well as untold history, tying into the gangs and their cycles, the ghosts literally haunting Ethelrida's family, Rabbi being unable to escape his terrible childhood, and even Mike Milligans origin story, where we can fill in some blanks and guess that he tried to distance himself from his family and all the terrible things that happened, losing both of his fathers, but eventually shared his fathers fate of becoming absorbed into a massive crime incorporated, even if Mike lives longer. And of course the general Fargo theme of karma catching up to you, and this episode certainly did have the theme of "random little and unrelated things all coming together to change the fates of everyone" that Fargo loves so much, especially with the ends for Mayflower, Loy, and Josto. Josto especially was basically killed because of a bunch of weird coincidences and Loy was killed by a vengeful Zelmare, a plot that I pretty much forgot about. I guess that's what happens when you surround yourself with violent criminals. After everything, none of the main gangsters really "win" and everything they fought for ends up being pointless anyway. I also liked the montage of dead characters, but it also made me sad that we lost a lot of good characters too soon. 

So not a bad season exactly, but much like last season, I think that Noah Hawley had a lot of ideas, but bit off more than he could chew in the last two seasons. Season one and season two are great television, especially season two, but season three and four, I think, got a bit more interested in talking about philosophy or greater weighty ideas about American life and culture and history, to the point where the narrative got pushed to the side more to Make A Point about...stuff. I think that season three was more ambitious and had stronger individual episodes, but this season had a stronger general narrative and a better more satisfying ending, but lacked the ambition of previous seasons. If anything, this season seemed rather dull, especially in compared to previous seasons, with a lot happening but not a lot really going on until the end. Even the seasons supernatural element, the ghosts haunting Ethelrida's family, was hardly even a factor, whereas in most seasons it at least has something to do with the actual plot. This season just had so many characters and so many ideas, we didn't really have a lot of time to really get attached to them or to really develop these ideas. I really think we missed out on that normal person POV that we normally have in Fargo, it meant the show lost its center and spiraled us into a million different ideas and characters and themes, and while they did tie them together alright in the end, without our normal person POV the show felt disjointed. Ethelrida was a decent normal person POV, but she really needed more screen time or to get more of her perspective on things for her to really work for that narrative purpose. There were a lot of good moments, and I am pretty happy with how things ended, but it felt terribly uneven. 

Interesting that this season seemed to be trying to recapture season two, being a period piece about a mob war that is partially metaphorical, and even having a character in common. I don't think it lived up to the all time highs of season two, but it had a lot going for it. Good performances (although Chris Rock ended up being rather miscast) I loved the period setting, some characters that I really enjoyed, great music, and a lot of good ideas. I just wish that it had been more consistent. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by tennisgurl

[LadyintheLoop]

Quote

Satchel's unemotional response to his father's death was chilling. My interpretation was that the traumas he'd experienced had drained all of the empathy out of him - leading to him winding up as the ruthless criminal we saw in season two.

Or maybe he'd just had to give up on the father who put him in mortal danger.

Still, Zelmare did just mess up his life again. Hope he does get revenge, and make the world a safer place.

I'm not convinced Chris Rock was miscast. Maybe he was supposed to seem a bit out of his depth.

[Dev F]

49 minutes ago, LadyintheLoop said:

Or maybe he'd just had to give up on the father who put him in mortal danger.

Yep, and presumably that's going to cause tension between Satchel and the rest of his family, who are going to be in mourning for a loss he's already internalized:

"She was a true gloom, my mother. We used to eat in the dark. For a laugh, I wrote on her tombstone, 'Here lies Barbara Milligan, happy till the end.' Me, on the other hand, I'm an optimist. So when I see this . . . [reveals Joe Bulo's head in a box] . . . I don't think the sky is falling. I think that, sir, is the sound of opportunity knocking."

[shapeshifter]

15 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

15 hours ago, Suzysite said:

I'm a little confused by older Ethelrida and the suitcases under that big painting.

I'm pretty sure Ethelrida is the author of True Crime in the Mid-West.

Right. Or perhaps "Storia Americana"?
But is the room with the painting in the Mafia's lair? Or Loy's?

 

 

 

10 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

My recollection of the scene where Josto asked Oral-etta to handle the death of his father was that it was entirely menacing.  If we were to accept his protestations, we would be denying what we were shown.  Oh, right.  This whole effort was a deception.  Silly me.

I always thought it was ambiguous. Like maybe Josto had not meant for Oraetta to do anything other than relieve his father's suffering and had initially assumed she would just give his father something for the pain, but that when his father died, Josto was cool with that too (for reasons of power).
But I wasn't sure if Josto ever knew for sure that Oraetta hadBu done it on purpose (until this episode).
We definitely saw Josto and his brother come to an understanding and appreciation, which none of his family or crew really saw or knew about, so perhaps it was the same with his feelings about his father when he was in the hospital.

But the consiglieri guy and and the Mafia shot callers back in NY weren't wrong about the family jealousies getting in the way of the business.

 

*********************************

Who was the other bloodied guy in the  car when the hospital director was tossed in before Loy shot them?
And why was the younger black guy going to kill Loy?

 

**********************************

 

 

10 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I will give TPTB credit for never giving up an opportunity to be gory for gore's sake. 

I thought the aerial view of Josto and Oraetta lying in their open grave was stunningly beautiful. 

[Crashcourse]

1 hour ago, LadyintheLoop said:

I'm not convinced Chris Rock was miscast. Maybe he was supposed to seem a bit out of his depth.

Perhaps, but I think one could argue that Josto, for example, was "out of his depth" but I thought he came across as believable.  Chris Rock?  Not so much.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

10 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

And why was the younger black guy going to kill Loy?

I thought the aerial view of Josto and Oraetta lying in their open grave was stunningly beautiful. 

I'm pretty sure the syndicate (Ebal) ordered the hit, using their new ally Happy.  

I agree it was a stunning shot.  It wasn't gratuitous, imo.  But, the killshots and the knifing were grotesque and overkill (pun intended).  I was intrigued that they intentionally went with a very long view of Oral-etta's shooting.  Sexism?  

I forgot to mention that I found Ethelrida's joyful/triumphant moment as she picked up the suitcases to be a major off-note.  We had just seen the conversation last week where her mother spoke of the curse and the teen made it known that she had experienced the evil presence herself.  Well, if that wasn't prima facie evidence that the curse was going to live on, through Ethelrida, what was it?  Here, Hawley did not have the guts to show us a troubled young lady - just as he showed us a confident Mike.  TPTB went to great lengths to depict the troubles which beset these two likable characters and then refused to honor their choices in the finale.  What happened to the macro messaging, with which we were hit over the head with several soliloquies. about fate and how wicked the world was?  Was there a friendly ghost/angel for them that I missed?    

[shapeshifter]

6 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I forgot to mention that I found Ethelrida's joyful/triumphant moment as she picked up the suitcases to be a major off-note.  We had just seen the conversation last week where her mother spoke of the curse and the teen made it known that she had experienced the evil presence herself.  Well, if that wasn't prima facie evidence that the curse was going to live on, through Ethelrida, what was it?  Here, Hawley did not have the guts to show us a troubled young lady - just as he showed us a confident Mike.  TPTB went to great lengths to depict the troubles which beset these two likable characters and then refused to honor their choices in the finale.  What happened to the macro messaging, with which we were hit over the head with several soliloquies. about fate and how wicked the world was?  Was there a friendly ghost/angel for them that I missed?   

Ethelrida and Satchel/Mike have learned to enjoy the times of good fortune while they can precisely because tomorrow is never guaranteed. 

[LadyintheLoop]

Quote

But is the room with the painting in the Mafia's lair? Or Loy's?

Maybe Miss Smutney wheedled the painting out of Lemuel.

Quote

Who was the other bloodied guy in the  car when the hospital director was tossed in before Loy shot them?

I think that was the father of Josto's former bride-to-be.

 

[Blakeston]

Even if Satchel was bitter at his father for putting him in a terrible situation, his reaction was still extraordinarily cold. This was someone who was important to the other members of his family, who had nothing to do with him being traded to the Italians.

When Josto spoke to Oraetta in the first episode, I found his comment about "taking care" of his father to be ambiguous. But his reaction to the accusation in this episode suggests that he really was asking her to kill him.

If he had just wanted her to be attentive, then he would have been angry at her once they revealed that she killed him, and he would have explained that his comments were just normal things to say to a nurse that were misinterpreted. But instead he just went straight to "this dame is bonkers, I tellz ya!"

[shapeshifter]

39 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

Even if Satchel was bitter at his father for putting him in a terrible situation, his reaction was still extraordinarily cold. This was someone who was important to the other members of his family, who had nothing to do with him being traded to the Italians.

I thought Satchel's reaction to his father's death was within expected ranges given his experiences of having been ripped from his family to be treated like a prisoner and then going on the run not expecting to ever see his family again. And how many other dead bodies had Satchel seen by then?

[GodsBeloved]

19 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

Perhaps, but I think one could argue that Josto, for example, was "out of his depth" but I thought he came across as believable.  Chris Rock?  Not so much.

For me, saying Chris Rock was a miscast is being nice. He is simply a bad actor. I thought the kid playing Satchel was bad too so that last scene with Loy and Satchel was cringeworthy.

I’m pretty indifferent about this season and am glad I have the movie and seasons 1 and 2 when I’m in a Fargo mood.

Edited December 1, 2020 by GodsBeloved

[The Wild Sow]

2 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

And why was the younger black guy going to kill Loy?

I thought the aerial view of Josto and Oraetta lying in their open grave was stunningly beautiful. 

I'm pretty sure the syndicate (Ebal) ordered the hit, using their new ally Happy.  

Yes, Leon (the young Black guy, Happy's cousin) was supposed to be Lemuel's driver/bodyguard.  And let Lemuel get arrested right under his nose (not to mention almost shot by Rabbi & Calamita!)  Loy gave him one heck of a beating after that, and I suspect he was hungry for some revenge! 

The aerial shot was amazing, but damn that was one huuuuuuge grave for just two people!  I felt for the guys who were left to fill it in.

[seacliffsal]

Nothing was surprising or unexpected in my view.  I actually have found this season to be boring (and deleted the episode as soon as the credits started so I missed the scene that many are talking about of Mike Milligan).  Mayflower's quirks were annoying to me.  I don't know if we were supposed to have empathy for any of the characters, and, if so, I certainly didn't.  In the previous seasons there were characters for whom I had concerns about their futures.  In this season, I'm glad that Satchel/Mike and his dog made it home, but that's about all.

I agree with an above poster that there were too many characters for me to get to know or care about.

[Ellaria]

Sigh...it’s over and I realize that I didn’t really care about any of it. The few characters that I enjoyed - Rabbi, Dr. Senator - were long gone. There were way too many characters and many - like Deafy - didn’t have a real purpose in the story.

I like Chris Rock but this wasn’t a great role for him. I never felt menace or cunning in his portrayal. I don’t like Jason Schwartzman and this role isn’t going to change my mind. Gaetano was a one-dimensional, buffoon of a character. As for Zelmare...ugh.

S1 and especially S2 of Fargo were something special. Quirky and violent but with a heart and with characters that you could root for. S3 and S4 were a disappointment. I think that Noah Hawley has lost his way.

Great to see Bokeem Woodbine again. It was the most exciting moment of the season even though I pretty much assumed that Satchel would grow up to be Mike Milligan.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Ellaria Sand

[shapeshifter]

33 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

There were way too many characters and many - like Deafy - didn’t have a real purpose in the story.

There must be a word for when a writer-director creates something so spectacular that so much money is thrown at them that it has a negative effect --in this case a bloated cast.
Awesome-writer-director-itis?

[cpcathy]

I enjoyed this season. Yes, there were too many characters: I read a recap yesterday and didn’t know who some of the people who were mentioned!
it was beautifully shot, and everyone was good to great in it. I cannot take anymore of Jessie Buckley, so, good riddance. I 

So nice to see Mike Milligan again! Season two really was the pinnacle of Fargo so far.  Season three stunk!
Give us more Mike Milligan origin story, and I’ll be happy.

[foxfreakinmulder]

Well it wouldn't be Fargo unless almost everyone dies, lol.

That last scene with Chris Rock and the kid that played his son (both of which were terrible actors) was cringeworthy to watch. And why the writers just had the kid sit and watch instead of calling for his mom and why no one else in the room noticed when he was stabbed cause he fell against that big ass window he was looking through was weird.

What was up with the oranges was that an easteregg or something and wasn't there another scene that had oranges laid out on a table?

Wasn't impressed at all with this season it was hard for me to get through it.

[roughing it]

Well I'm going to disagree about Chris Rock - I didn't mind him cast as Loy.  In the first couple of episodes, I saw Chris playing Loy, but as the series evolved, I only saw Loy.  I thought Loy and Josto were of similar characteristics, in that neither was one you would think to lead their gang, and that they were in over their heads.  In fact, I found Josto just as cartoonish as his brother Gaetano.

[Eulipian 5k]

Unfortunately it seems every death came about as, "Well, we're done with this character, let's just have them die". "We can use a tornado, the Snowman, raining fish, or use another character who has no more purpose (Odis) to kill them." Death (Envy & Revenge) seemed the only character driving this season just like Corporate Criminal Money (Greed & Gluttony) drove the Ewan McGregor season.

[rur]

2 hours ago, roughing it said:

Well I'm going to disagree about Chris Rock - I didn't mind him cast as Loy.  In the first couple of episodes, I saw Chris playing Loy, but as the series evolved, I only saw Loy.  I thought Loy and Josto were of similar characteristics, in that neither was one you would think to lead their gang, and that they were in over their heads.  In fact, I found Josto just as cartoonish as his brother Gaetano.

I liked his work, too. Just as many here could not accept him in the role, one of the overriding messages of this season, reinforced in his final meeting with Ebal, was that he -- and his organization --  would never be able to be accepted in the way that the Italians had. From the first episode, we were shown that he had the right ideas, and  he could see a bigger picture, but he would never be able to win.

[Crashcourse]

I agree that, no matter who was picked to play Loy, he and his organization would never have been accepted like the Italians.   However, I still think that there was a better actor out there who could have played him other than Chris Rock.  He improved a little in the last couple episodes but that's not saying much.  I actually thought his best scene was when he found Satchel but, again, that's not saying much.  

[Lonesome Rhodes]

5 hours ago, foxfreakinmulder said:

What was up with the oranges was that an easteregg or something and wasn't there another scene that had oranges laid out on a table?

 

I took it as an homage to a fellow gangster in film, Vito (Andolini) Corleone, who died (natural death) while eating an orange.  Loy couldn't hold that man's socks.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

9 hours ago, foxfreakinmulder said:

What was up with the oranges was that an easteregg or something and wasn't there another scene that had oranges laid out on a table?

I took it as an homage to a fellow gangster in film, Vito (Andolini) Corleone, who died (natural death) while eating an orange. 

More orange thoughts:

• In Breaking Bad, Walter White's wife's lover--who could have exposed the drug business--was struck down when running to get the front door and tripping over [a rug*]/oranges spilled on the floor.
• In 1951 midwestern U.S., oranges were not frequently available at the store. 
• The oranges' intense hue contrasted with the grays and browns of the scene, and the orange color was brilliant while the dripping blood was dark.

Edited December 2, 2020 by shapeshifter
* @crashcourse recalled it was a rug

[Crashcourse]

38 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

In Breaking Bad, Walter White's wife's lover--who could have exposed the drug business--was struck down when running to get the front door and tripping over oranges spilled on the floor.

Was that Ted Beneke?  I thought he tripped over a rug trying to run away from Huell and Kuby.  Or maybe she had another lover I don't recall?  

[shapeshifter]

57 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

Was that Ted Beneke?  I thought he tripped over a rug trying to run away from Huell and Kuby.  Or maybe she had another lover I don't recall?  

I think you’re right about the rug tripping him, but I can still picture the oranges rolling on the floor when Ted went down, much like in Chris Rock’s/Loy’s final scene. 
I think BrBa reused the scene with the oranges rolling during several “previously”/flashback intros. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by shapeshifter

[FoundTime]

Yes, oranges have been a motif for Death by Violent Crime ever since The Godfather. Wasn't there also a scene in one of the final episodes of Breaking Bad when Walt went to the house (after he'd been disappeared) and a neighbor saw him and dropped a bag of groceries...and oranges rolled out?

My overall take on this installment is too many characters with too many weird names to keep track of/care about, and a main plot of gang warfare is not intrinsically interesting to me (as a side plot, fine). So I actually preferred some of the subplots and their characters -- Ethelrida and her family, Oraetta and her closet of death, Deafy and Odis* -- and I think that's where the performances were stronger too.

*Predictive text hates these character names too, it tries to change each and every one 😆

 

[shapeshifter]

44 minutes ago, FoundTime said:

*Predictive text hates these character names too, it tries to change each and every one 😆

If you type the names enough times (3? 4?), your phone or tablet will learn them. My old phone knew Walternate. 

[Ottis]

On 12/1/2020 at 8:53 AM, roughing it said:

In fact, I found Josto just as cartoonish as his brother Gaetano

Way too many characters in this season were cartoonish, from Odis to Oraetta to Josto to Gaetano to Crazy Escaped Con Sister. Arguably Swanee and perhaps Deafy, as well, depending on your perception of them. All they needed were old car horn sounds and bugging eyes.

Even the more normal characters all were goofy or had some kind of odd flaws. There were no true innocents, except maybe the kids who were traded as hostages.

As a result, I never cared who shot who, or when. 

Chris Rock tried mightily, but he always seemed like comedian Chris Rock with painted-gray hair and a glued on moustache to me.  The one poignant note from his character was the fact he did have ideas (credit card, various alliances) and should have been given a chance, but because he was Black he never got one.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Ottis

[Eulipian 5k]

On 12/2/2020 at 7:10 AM, FoundTime said:

and a neighbor saw him and dropped a bag of groceries...and oranges rolled out?

Or could it be that oranges are a bright object that rolls and can be seen in a well composed wide shot; like in classic still life paintings. 

[FoundTime]

I know Wikipedia isn't everything, but they confirmed my memory was right of that Breaking Bad episode. Check out the page on "Blood Money," "References to other media," where they note the Godfather's use of oranges.

Rewatched the finale tonight and appreciated it more, I think at least in part because of the fine commentary here ☺

 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 11/30/2020 at 6:46 PM, seacliffsal said:

I agree with an above poster that there were too many characters for me to get to know or care about.

For me it was too many characters with most player by relatively unknown actors. I mean you had your big stars like Olyphant, Rock and Schwartzman, and character actors like the guy from Boardwalk empire and the guy playing Doctor Senator. Those wer the only people I recognized. Compare that to seasons 1 or 2 where you had pretty famous actors either doing supporting roles (like Ted Danson, Oliver Platt or Keith Carridine) or bit parts (like Bruce Campbell, Kate Walsh, Bob Odenkirk or Glenn Howerton). You didn't really see that this season.