S05.E16: Picking Sides

[TexasGal]

Quote

The ladies play a prank on Wendy that leaves her screaming. Gizelle struggles with keeping Juan's impending proposal to herself. Meanwhile, Karen surprises the group with very personal details about her marriage. Ashley shocks Gizelle and Robyn with the news that she wrote a witness statement in defense of Monique.

Airdate 11.15.2020

[LibertarianSlut]

Aside from the witness statement and the name “Wendy,” this episode description could be for any episode of any season of this show.  Producers are really dropping the ball here. It’s vacation—can’t we get something decent, like a Katie disappearance?  At this point, I’d settle for a Katie (or Kyndall!) appearance.  Wake me up when something interesting happens, Bravo.

[RealReality]

13 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Aside from the witness statement and the name “Wendy,” this episode description could be for any episode of any season of this show.  Producers are really dropping the ball here. It’s vacation—can’t we get something decent, like a Katie disappearance?  At this point, I’d settle for a Katie (or Kyndall!) appearance.  Wake me up when something interesting happens, Bravo.

I like Katie so much more when she is kinda kooky.  She can't be as kooky as she was on that vacation, but it was so great to see her drop the act and get real.  I hope she gets it together a bit and can be reliable on the show.  She looked so sad and broke with her bin wigs that I can't help but root for her.  Come on Krazy Katie!

[LaurelleJ]

Season 4 Katie was so much better than season 1 Katie. I wonder if the goal was to have Katie be a friend last season for her to return as full time for this season, since they were clearly open to another housewife. That would have been nice. 

[nb360]

Wendy's legs were.... kinda ashy...

[Keywestclubkid]

Thank you Robyn for reminding Ashley that she needs to take several seats 

[TexasGal]

Um, so why WAS the esteemed Dr. Wendy ordering a drink at the bar in her robe?!  She couldn’t get a room service drink?

[Keywestclubkid]

As a mom and a wife... fuck that she shouldn’t have put her hands on someone.... I fucking hate Ashley making this excuse sit your ass down Ashley 

[LibertarianSlut]

It’s amusing and befuddling to me that Ashley is treating Candiace’s desire to become a mother as a personal affront.

I can’t believe how good Robyn looked in her micro-mini dress at dinner.

It’s so titillating to scare Wendy with a rubber spider that they devote one third of the episode and break the fourth wall for her reaction?  Fascinating.

Ashley was deliberately misleading to the point of lying when she told Gizelle and Robyn that she was writing a statement in support of Monique’s character, when it was actually a smear against Candiace.  I thought Ashley was all hashtag truth.

[Keywestclubkid]

2 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Ashley was deliberately misleading to the point of lying when she told Gizelle and Robyn that she was writing a statement in support of Monique’s character, when it was actually a smear against Candiace.  I thought Ashley was all hashtag truth.

Ashley to me at this point is a snake who deserves whatever happens to her ..let her have more babies to trap a man that doesn’t want them .. let that man continue to cheat on her ... she’s a disgusting human being... 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Keywestclubkid

[drivethroo]

9 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

As a mom and a wife... fuck that she shouldn’t have put her hands on someone.... I fucking hate Ashley making this excuse sit your ass down Ashley 

Ashley does have the right to give a statement on Monique's behalf.  Technically, Ashley writing about Candiace & the butter knife incident is truthful; it did happen.  However, Monique wouldn't have to worry about going to jail and leaving her kids behind if she didn't beat somebody up and Ashley was only turning up on Candiace at the table so she can justify why she had to write that statement.

I'm glad the show letting it be known (via Robyn & Gizelle) what it really is:

• Ashley and Monique have a quid pro quo relationship because of the cameraman incident
• Ashley was only turning up on Candiace to justify why she wrote that statement
• Monique is hiding* that camera footage of Michael assaulting the cameraman and Ashley is repaying the favor

Apparently Ashley is going to continue turning up on Candiace to provoke her into another incident for the rest of the season

The show knows and has always known Monique and Chris were protecting Michael.  The producers weren't going to let the Darbys or the Samuels off scot-free for what happened to their team member.  That's what this entire season is about.  The show would've gone in on Ashley  had she not just had a baby and been going through PPD and with her being pregnant with Child Support 2 they won't do it next season either.

 

*Monique didn't destroy that footage.  She still has it and if she and Ashley ever fall out, one of Monique's team of bloggers & YouTubers will miraculously have that footage.

[Axie]

I enjoyed this episode, and, for the most part, they all got along.  No screaming dinners, no glass throwing....  I even got a kick out of how funny Robyn thought the prank on Four Degrees of Fast Food, er, Wendy, was.

[Keywestclubkid]

16 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

Ashley does have the right to give a statement on Monique's behalf.  Technically, Ashley writing about Candiace & the butter knife incident is truthful; it did happen.  However, Monique wouldn't have to worry about going to jail and leaving her kids behind if she didn't beat somebody up and Ashley was only turning up on Candiace at the table so she can justify why she had to write that statement.

I'm glad the show letting it be known (via Robyn & Gizelle) what it really is:

• Ashley and Monique have a quid pro quo relationship because of the cameraman incident
• Ashley was only turning up on Candiace to justify why she wrote that statement
• Monique is hiding* that camera footage of Michael assaulting the cameraman and Ashley is repaying the favor

Apparently Ashley is going to continue turning up on Candiace to provoke her into another incident for the rest of the season

The show knows and has always known Monique and Chris were protecting Michael.  The producers weren't going to let the Darbys or the Samuels off scot-free for what happened to their team member.  That's what this entire season is about.  The show would've gone in on Ashley  had she not just had a baby and been going through PPD and with her being pregnant with Child Support 2 they won't do it next season either.

 

*Monique didn't destroy that footage.  She still has it and if she and Ashley ever fall out, one of Monique's team of bloggers & YouTubers will miraculously have that footage.

I think its more the fact that she was trying to play it off like it wasn't some sort of payback and she was doing it out of being a good friend thats whats annoying me ... why pretend that you want to move forward with Candance then turn around and do that letter?? you know damn well Monique wouldn't have gone to jail ... stop that mess if anything she would just buy her way out of the first offense like most people with money do ... Robyn and G were correct and so is Wendy next episode she saw an opportunity to get back at Candance and she took it ... ..this episode just really really made me realize how much I really do dislike Ashley I tried to give her a chance but she is just a snake .. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Keywestclubkid

[drivethroo]

1 minute ago, Keywestclubkid said:

I think its more the fact that she was trying to play it off like it wasn't some sort of payback and she was doing it out of being a good friend thats whats annoying me ... why pretend that you want to move forward with Candance then turn around and do that letter?? you know damn well Monique wouldn't have gone to jail ... stop that mess if anything she would just buy her way out of the first offense like most people with money do ... Robyn and G were correct and so is Wendy next episode she saw an opportunity to get back at Candance and she took it ... ..

And that's why Robyn & Gizelle called her out and why Wendy will call her out on next week's episode.  As Robyn said, it would be one thing if Ashley wrote a statement in support of Monique rather than against Candiace.  I think if Robyn wrote a statement for Candiace saying 'Well Monique is aggressive, she threatened me with an umbrella" Monique wouldn't appreciate it.  It all goes back to the butter knife incident for me, something about that incident triggered Monique and she's never been able to get over it and never will.

[Stats Queen]

Just started watching. the toboggan scene. All I could see was Newman and a rickshaw.

 

[Stats Queen]

Why the heck did Giselle do an Instagram story at the jewelers is it is supposed to be a surprise for her BFF. Then getting on Karen who brought it up. 

[Keywestclubkid]

Poor ray having it on blast that his wife dislikes his penis lol 

[Momager]

The promo scene for next week cracked me up. Ashely is sitting there very seriously while admitting she wrote a letter for Monique and Candiace is sitting there reacting to it in a dominatrix outfit - complete with bunny ears. Only on a housewives show! The utter ridiculousness of it all both repels and attracts me. 🤷🏽‍♀️ 

[drivethroo]

50 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Poor ray having it on blast that his wife dislikes his penis lol 

Well, Ashley said on a previous season that Karen claimed Ray's penis was old and shriveled up (which was shown on the flashback tonight) so Robyn telling it is not brand new information lol.

Karen needs to put down the liquor bottle because she tells too much of their business when she's drunk.

The Ray/Penis thing is another reason why I can't take Ashley seriously because she's been reckless with her mouth with every single cast member (except Gizelle and towards Robyn in particular) but because she's now a MOM(tm) she's now supposed to be handled like she's a delicate flower? Tuh!  

Edited November 16, 2020 by drivethroo

[Marley]

Ashley is a piece of shit. 

Honestly I dislike Monique more and more every episode and she hasn’t even been in the last 2. If she would’ve just been like yea I snapped and I shouldn’t have with the fight I wouldn’t even really care but all this bs and a smear campaign makes me dislike her. Also the butter knife incident has nothing to do with anything and isn’t even that bad.

Why the fuck would Gizelle post her in front of the jeweller like jeez lol.

[Axie]

I forgot that Wendy actually did something funny.  She handed Candyass her napkin, when Candyass was fake crying again, and said, "It's already folded."

 

[drivethroo]

The real problem with Karen's photos was Karen's Wicked Witch of the West nose. 

[SimonSeymour]

I'm not a Monique OR Ashley fan, but I am a criminal defense attorney, so I view the Ashley "letter" differently than you guys seem to so far. 

If a defendant is on trial for battery or murder and raises a claim of self-defense, he or she is entitled to introduce evidence of the victim’s aggressive or violent character if the defendant knew of the victim’s violent character or prior criminal acts. The evidence goes to the defendant's state of mind and is relevant to support the defendant’s contention that he or she reasonably believed the use of force in self-defense was justified. And, in my state (but not in all), evidence of the victim's aggressive or violent character is also admissible when there is conflicting evidence as to who was the initial aggressor, regardless of whether the defendant was aware of the victim's violent nature. In that situation, a defendant may present evidence of the victim’s violent character to bolster his or her claim that, in the confrontation, the victim was the initial aggressor. 

So, I absolutely think that Ashley's testimony about the butter knife incident is fair game. In fact, if I were defending Monique at trial, I would subpoena Ashley to testify, regardless of whether she was willing to write the letter. If I were representing Monique on appeal after she had been convicted at trial, I would argue that she is entitled to a new trial due to her trial attorney's ineffectiveness, and I'd win (in my state, at least).

But as for the letter itself, it is useless, because its content is inadmissible hearsay; she has to testify in person. So in that regard, I'm not really sure what the point of writing it is, unless it's to disclose to the State in discovery what Ashley would testify to at trial. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by SimonSeymour

[nexxie]

9 hours ago, Stats Queen said:

Just started watching. the toboggan scene. All I could see was Newman and a rickshaw.

 

HA!!

Karen: “Portland! I mean Portugal City!”

[bosawks]

Giselle getting bit by that karmic pepper made me chuckle for the entire episode.

[nexxie]

12 hours ago, TexasGal said:

Um, so why WAS the esteemed Dr. Wendy ordering a drink at the bar in her robe?!  She couldn’t get a room service drink?

She had trouble with the light switch. Maybe she had trouble with the room service button too - plus, she wanted to practice her Portuguese in person so she could show off ordering a drink with the group later?

Edited November 16, 2020 by nexxie

[Neurochick]

12 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Ashley to me at this point is a snake who deserves whatever happens to her ..let her have more babies to trap a man that doesn’t want them .. let that man continue to cheat on her ... she’s a disgusting human being... 

I can't stand Ashley, but as I said on the other thread, I think Ashley relates to Monique the most.  Gizelle, Robyn and Candiace have parents who are professionals; Karen's family seems to be quite influential in her town and we know Wendy has 4 degrees.  I think Ashley sees Monique as a kindred spirit, both of them married wealthy men and are dealing with that. 

Ashley probably feels that the other women look down on her.  

[Baltimore Betty]

All I want to do now is go on that toboggan ride like the HW's even though there were no restraints or seat belts it looked like a lot of fun.

Ashley should tell Monique she would be happy to appear in court if asked but writting anything about anyone's character is not a good idea.  Monique's lawyers can review the tape of the butter knife incident because it demonstrates that running your mouth can be insindiary and insighting as if you threw a punch. I am not justifiying violence but Bravo productions systematically set up the enviornment for this behavior and sometimes rewards it...maybe Monique's lawyers should request the producers to appear as witnesses. 

I know in real life that there are probably many contractural reasons Bravo and parts there of cannot not be sued.

[Boofish]

Gizelle and Robyn would write letters for each other without a moment's hesitation. Why they sit on the throne of self righteousness is a mystery Perry Mason could not solve. They seem to think only their friendship is worthy. Monique is 100% on the wrong side of this story but she has a right to defend herself and Ashley is free to write a statement for a friend if she chooses and don't need to justify her actions to Electra Woman and Dyna Girl.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Boofish

[Keywestclubkid]

1 hour ago, Boofish said:

Gizelle and Robyn would write letters for each other without a moment's hesitation. Why they sit on the throne of self righteousness is a mystery Perry Mason could not solve. They seem to think only their friendship is worthy. Monique is 100% on the wrong side of this story but she has a right to defend herself and Ashley is free to write a statement for a friend if she chooses and don't need to justify her actions to Electra Woman and Dyna Girl.

The fact that G and Robyn are actually friends on and off this show is the HUGE difference ... the only reason Ashley gave for writing the letter is because she Owed Monique for not squealing on her husband grabbing ass (which everyone knows he did ) they just point out that she was lying to candance saying she wanted to mend their friendship by withholding this from her ..... Ashley is a snake trying to play both sides of this and acting like she is the Victim ...

Edited November 16, 2020 by Keywestclubkid

[Neurochick]

2 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Monique's lawyers can review the tape of the butter knife incident because it demonstrates that running your mouth can be insindiary and insighting as if you threw a punch. I am not justifiying violence but Bravo productions systematically set up the enviornment for this behavior and sometimes rewards it...maybe Monique's lawyers should request the producers to appear as witnesses. 

There is no justification for violence if you are not being attacked.  Someone saying, "Good night!" isn't a justification for attacking someone IMO.

[Keywestclubkid]

8 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

There is no justification for violence if you are not being attacked.  Someone saying, "Good night!" isn't a justification for attacking someone IMO.

Yes I can scream in your face till the cows come home and the min you throw that punch you are in the wrong not me ....

[drivethroo]

The problem with Ashley giving a "character" statement about Candiace's aggression and the butter knife incident in particular is I promise you Ashley didn't write about:

• How Ashley started the aggression at the table with Candiace in the first place
• How Candiace told her to leave her house after she threw the butter knife at Ashley and she came back into the house to start up some more aggression with Candiace
• How she was escorted out of the house by Candiace but came back into the house a second time

Ashley can't say Candiace is so aggressive when Ashley started the aggression and escalated it in the first place (and the entire cast knows it).

They're probably also giving Ashley the eye about the statement because Ashley was gung ho about blaming the fight on Candiace's aggression and claiming Candiace started the fight at Wendy's sip n see but had to be reminded she was not a witness to the fight so she could not say who started the fight.

TLDR: Monique was itching to beat Candiace's ass and Ashley has been itching to blame the entire situation on Candiace by any means necessary.

Plus if Ashley felt Candiace was so aggressive, why invite her on the trip?  She could've left Candiace stateside just like she left Monique.  If Monique is my good friend and I felt she was unfairly being singled out when Candiace is just as violent with her mouth, out of the fairness to my friend I would've left Candiace's ass back in the United States too.

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I think Ashley sees Monique as a kindred spirit, both of them married wealthy men and are dealing with that. 

I would throw Karen in that group, too.

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Ashley probably feels that the other women look down on her. 

They don't look down on her because of her background, they look down on her for what she's doing to keep up her current lifestyle.  I don't think they look down on Monique for her background, either.  They look down on her because of how she carries herself.

1 hour ago, Boofish said:

Monique is 100% on the wrong side of this story but she has a right to defend herself and Ashley is free to write a statement for a friend if she chooses and don't need to justify her actions to Electra Woman and Dyna Girl.

Then Ashley shouldn't tip up to them and say "Guys, I wrote a character statement for Monique."  The only reason she told Robyn & Gizelle about the statement is to play the Karen-victim.  Robyn & Gizelle saw right through Ashley and her victim act and why she put on the show at the table the previous night.

28 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Monique's lawyers can review the tape of the butter knife incident because it demonstrates that running your mouth can be insindiary and insighting as if you threw a punch.

If they reviewed the butter knife incident, they would see Ashley instigated the entire situation by running her mouth and by Ashley & Monique's new logic, if you run your mouth you deserve to get your ass beat so by this logic Ashley deserved to have that knife thrown at her and SHE was actually the aggressor and Candiace was acting in self defense.

Edited November 16, 2020 by drivethroo

[Neurochick]

12 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

I would throw Karen in that group, too.

The only reason I don't feel that way about Karen is that she came from a small town where her family seemed pretty influential.

 

12 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

They don't look down on her because of her background, they look down on her for what she's doing to keep up her current lifestyle.  I don't think they look down on Monique for her background, either.  They look down on her because of how she carries herself.

Yes, but I think Ashley thinks the other women look down on her because of her background.

 

2 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Monique's lawyers can review the tape of the butter knife incident because it demonstrates that running your mouth can be insindiary and insighting as if you threw a punch.

I wasn't the one who made this statement.  I don't believe that saying "good night" over and over again is justification for attacking someone.

I've commented on why I think Monique has so many fans on SM, but I'll state it again:

Some black people have issues with:

• Light skinned women
• Biracial women
• Black women married to white men.

Monique is a brown skinned woman married to a black man.   Monique also seems to be aware of her privilege while Candiace doesn't seem to be aware of hers. 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Neurochick

[Baltimore Betty]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

There is no justification for violence if you are not being attacked.  Someone saying, "Good night!" isn't a justification for attacking someone IMO.

I think you missed my message, I was not talking about right or wrong of violence in real life but rather how Bravo gives HW's the matches to start the fire then applauds them and rarely fires them, calling it good tv.  

[StillHere]

4 hours ago, Boofish said:

Gizelle and Robyn would write letters for each other without a moment's hesitation. Why they sit on the throne of self righteousness is a mystery Perry Mason could not solve. They seem to think only their friendship is worthy. Monique is 100% on the wrong side of this story but she has a right to defend herself and Ashley is free to write a statement for a friend if she chooses and don't need to justify her actions to Electra Woman and Dyna Girl.

This X a milion. And their self-righteousness is sooooo cynical, so damn intellectually dishonest, and zero to do with principle, honor or logic. 

Dyna Girl is trying to cheat the IRS out of 100K (and glibly laughs about) years after blowing the family fortune, yet brands a castmember as a bad mother; Electra Woman and her alleged suitor trots their daughters (poor girls must be so confused) out in the front of cameras to participate in selling their pathetic charade of a relationship, while claiming she has no idea how many children he has with other women.  

And the thing is ... They Don't Give Two Fucks About Candiace. Their goal is to get Monique off the show.; it has been since Monique's clapbacks during her first season. This shit is just a chess game. 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by StillHere

[Sweet-tea]

16 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Poor ray having it on blast that his wife dislikes his penis lol 

I was thinking now that this has aired, the clock is probably ticking on their relationship. 

[Boofish]

2 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

The fact that G and Robyn are actually friends on and off this show is the HUGE difference ... the only reason Ashley gave for writing the letter is because she Owed Monique for not squealing on her husband grabbing ass (which everyone knows he did ) they just point out that she was lying to candance saying she wanted to mend their friendship by withholding this from her ..... Ashley is a snake trying to play both sides of this and acting like she is the Victim ...

I just don't think the extent or the defining the relationship is what matters. I don't think any of the housewives have pure motives for half of the low down dirty crap they do.

But if I have to say something nice about George and Lennie from the franchises I watch theirs seem to be the only true genuine bond. But they also weaponize it against others. Not sure why everyone has to get their approval before being accepted into the group. I would love for the other ladies to turn on those two - or at least Gizelle.

[StillHere]

11 minutes ago, Boofish said:

But if I have to say something nice about George and Lennie from the franchises I watch theirs seem to be the only true genuine bond. But they also weaponize it against others. Not sure why everyone has to get their approval before being accepted into the group. I would love for the other ladies to turn on those two - or at least Gizelle.

I agree their bond is genuine. I also think it is highly conditional; the current power imbalance needs stay intact.

In the event that Robin surpasses Gizelle in social standing – in the community and level of stardom – or monetarily (highly unlikely, at this point), that relationship will be shaken to its core. 

 

[Yogisbooboo64]

I would have loved to have gotten a toboggan ride....but, I would need the Rock, Schwarzenegger and Terry Crews 'bogganing my big ass, lol.

Gizzard, do you really listen to yourself?  Mind your business/keeping secrets? Heiffa, these sho nuff don't apply to your ass!  The only reason you've kept your piehole shut is cause of Robyn....anyone else would be fair game and you know it!

Ashley, Robyn and Giz were the best dressed...Karen's dress made her look old, Candiace looked like a doll and Wendy's jumpsuit was a nightmare.

Never been a fan of practical jokes and did not find what was done to Wendy humorous in any way.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Yogisbooboo64

[Keywestclubkid]

53 minutes ago, Boofish said:

I just don't think the extent or the defining the relationship is what matters. I don't think any of the housewives have pure motives for half of the low down dirty crap they do.

But if I have to say something nice about George and Lennie from the franchises I watch theirs seem to be the only true genuine bond. But they also weaponize it against others. Not sure why everyone has to get their approval before being accepted into the group. I would love for the other ladies to turn on those two - or at least Gizelle.

Just those two?? Have you forgot Karen and her kiss the ring mentality with newcomers? ALL of these ladies do it

[sATL]

what did the witness statement say ? She was in the bathroom, 15 feet away with the door closed , which during the whole time taking a dump, checking her breast for milk leaks,  and missed everything that was said as who assaulted who , first and how?

Edited November 16, 2020 by sATL

[LaurelleJ]

27 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Just those two?? Have you forgot Karen and her kiss the ring mentality with newcomers? ALL of these ladies do it

This made me LOL. I will say that Karen was the nicest to newcomers Monique and Candiace, and Monique was really nice to Candiace too. She was not that nice with Wendy, and it surprised me at first, my girl Karen was "not impressed". 

[Keywestclubkid]

50 minutes ago, LaurelleJ said:

This made me LOL. I will say that Karen was the nicest to newcomers Monique and Candiace, and Monique was really nice to Candiace too. She was not that nice with Wendy, and it surprised me at first, my girl Karen was "not impressed". 

To quote Karen on this show.. you have to earn your place in this circle.. and I AM the grand dame I hold center court and other snobbish kiss the ring things blah blah blah .. just to say it’s only G and Robyn is blatantly false .. she tired to “mother” candance and Monique placing them in the passive I need to teach you roll like grown ass woman who are married need her to “guide” them ...and she couldn’t do that with Wendy she tried to dismiss her completely like she was below her  .. she is just as bad 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Keywestclubkid

[LibertarianSlut]

13 hours ago, SimonSeymour said:

I'm not a Monique OR Ashley fan, but I am a criminal defense attorney, so I view the Ashley "letter" differently than you guys seem to so far. 

If a defendant is on trial for battery or murder and raises a claim of self-defense, he or she is entitled to introduce evidence of the victim’s aggressive or violent character if the defendant knew of the victim’s violent character or prior criminal acts. The evidence goes to the defendant's state of mind and is relevant to support the defendant’s contention that he or she reasonably believed the use of force in self-defense was justified. And, in my state (but not in all), evidence of the victim's aggressive or violent character is also admissible when there is conflicting evidence as to who was the initial aggressor, regardless of whether the defendant was aware of the victim's violent nature. In that situation, a defendant may present evidence of the victim’s violent character to bolster his or her claim that, in the confrontation, the victim was the initial aggressor. 

So, I absolutely think that Ashley's testimony about the butter knife incident is fair game. In fact, if I were defending Monique at trial, I would subpoena Ashley to testify, regardless of whether she was willing to write the letter. If I were representing Monique on appeal after she had been convicted at trial, I would argue that she is entitled to a new trial due to her trial attorney's ineffectiveness, and I'd win (in my state, at least).

But as for the letter itself, it is useless, because its content is inadmissible hearsay; she has to testify in person. So in that regard, I'm not really sure what the point of writing it is, unless it's to disclose to the State in discovery what Ashley would testify to at trial. 

Because it’s relevant, I’ll just state from the outset that I’m a lawyer too (not criminal defense), but I had to learn all of the above in order to pass Evidence and two states’ bars, and what I would underscore about what I took from this post is twofold:

1. As you stated, it really does depend on the jurisdiction whether testimony of “prior bad acts” or character for ____ will be admitted.  So I think it’s premature to say that this is the situation with regard to Ashley in the absence of knowledge of that jurisdiction’s rules of evidence.  I would think the most rational order of operations would be to learn the rules of evidence of the jurisdiction (Maryland, Virginia, DC, I don’t know where the countersuit is being brought) and then apply them to Monique’s counter suit prior to to rendering a determination that what Ashley is doing is “fair game.”  If this type of evidence is not admissible, the statement is not “fair game” the way it would be if it were admissible.  It would be “fair game” only as far as Ashley would have a right to make it (and I don’t think anyone is arguing whether Ashley has a right to make the statement; just that she’s doing it in a shitty way and/or it’s a shitty thing to do).  
2. If Ashely was truly a neutral party and a friend to Candiace and Monique, as she is trying to spin it, then why doesn’t she just go ahead and have the court subpoena her testimony, as was suggested would happen if Ashley didn’t volunteer the info?  This reminds me of the police procedural shows/movies where the cops show up at the home of the “perp” and tell him they can either do this the easy way and let them search his home, or they can do it the hard way and get a warrant.  As an attorney, as someone who is aware of the Fourth Amendment protections, I am always screaming at my TV, “the hard way!  Do it the hard way!”  (And no one ever listens to me, by golly).

What Ashley should have done, instead of approaching Robyn and Gizelle and telling them she was going to write a letter “in support” of Monique’s character, when she was really going to go and assassinate Candiace’s character, would be to put on her big girl britches, admit same, and then be willing to hear any blowback that came her way.  Because if Ashley is right, then she’s right.  Why should this truth cannon of a woman who has run around for five seasons dropping truth bombs on people do anything other than tell the truth of exactly what kind of statement she was voluntarily writing for Monique?  And I wouldn’t buy the argument that Ashley was confused, because Ashely became very, very un-confused as soon as Robyn and Gizelle started asking questions.  

So, in a nutshell, my argument is that if the jurisdiction admits testimony about prior bad acts and character, Ashley could still have remained the neutral party by refusing to provide a statement/affidavit regarding same, unless the court compelled her to.  

It’s also interesting to me that the rest of the cast (save Wendy) was there at the butter knife throwing event, and no one has said word one about the prosecution/plaintiff (not even sure if Monique’s ‘countersuit’ is criminal or civil, as I have never heard of a criminal countersuit, but maybe it’s under my radar) contacting them for a statement, so...this is clearly voluntary to me, not something that has been impressed upon Ashley as a victim of circumstances. 

And I just don’t think there is a legal argument that circumvents the truth of this quoted below, which is at the heart of the displeasure in the social and human, not legal, case against Ashely:

4 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

the only reason Ashley gave for writing the letter is because she Owed Monique for not squealing on her husband grabbing ass (which everyone knows he did ) they just point out that she was lying to candance saying she wanted to mend their friendship by withholding this from her ..... Ashley is a snake trying to play both sides of this and acting like she is the Victim ...

 

[Legalbeagle421]

4 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Because it’s relevant, I’ll just state from the outset that I’m a lawyer too (not criminal defense), but I had to learn all of the above in order to pass Evidence and two states’ bars, and what I would underscore about what I took from this post is twofold:

1. As you stated, it really does depend on the jurisdiction whether testimony of “prior bad acts” or character for ____ will be admitted.

 

I've taken and passed two state Bar exams in the past year (2019 law school grad) and this whole paragraph was triggering 😂. So grateful that phase of my career is over. 

Ashley is just messy as hell. Maybe because I practice an area of law where I see a lot of frivolous lawsuits, but Monique's countersuit really pissed me off. I'm so glad that mess was dropped, though I feel bad for Candiace that her case was dismissed as well. I watched an after show clip last week or so where Monique is still claiming the fight was mutual, so this woman will never learn. 

I love Robyn and I am so glad she is speaking up this season. I'm glad she called out Ashley for trying to insert herself into a scene that she missed in its entirety. 

[Chatty Cake]

I don’t see Ashley as messy. Why not get back at Candiace for screaming at her and pulling the butter knife and chasing her last year? It just serves to remind us that Candiace has been looking for a fight for a long time.

Is there really butt grabbing footage? Would Monique and Chris withhold it if there was? 

[Keywestclubkid]

20 minutes ago, Chatty Cake said:

I don’t see Ashley as messy. Why not get back at Candiace for screaming at her and pulling the butter knife and chasing her last year?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that iF you are honest about it or smart enough to play the game and not get caught .... don’t “pretend” to mend fences and want to move forward and be friends then stab her in the back the first chance you get ... that is the definition of messy and makes Anyone who would friend her do a double take of damn if she would sneak attack her what makes you think she won’t do the same to you if she feels you have wronged her. The only thing you can hope for is dirt on her to use as leverage.I absolutely think she was baiting candance at that dinner hopping she would pop off to say see this is why I wrote the “character witness” she hasn’t changed (like Monique has suddenly magically claimed she did) and when she apologized and remained calm it threw her off she no longer had the see she is unstable and still pops off .....she is trying to play both sides and thought she could get away with it and not come out looking like the snake she is but she’s not smooth enough of an operator to do that ....

Edited November 17, 2020 by Keywestclubkid

[StillHere]

Out of all this episode, I'm most taken aback by Candiace calling Ashley a bedwench. Like ... really, little girl?

Does she know what that means?

[RealReality]

On 11/15/2020 at 6:00 PM, Keywestclubkid said:

As a mom and a wife... fuck that she shouldn’t have put her hands on someone.... I fucking hate Ashley making this excuse sit your ass down Ashley 

Ashley is a gaslighting piece of shit.  She knows she is in the wrong, so now its all "well if thats how she CHOOSES to take it, thats on her!"  Is that what anyone said when Candace called you names on social media, that it was your fault for taking it offensively?  No.  

On 11/15/2020 at 6:09 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

It’s amusing and befuddling to me that Ashley is treating Candiace’s desire to become a mother as a personal affront.

I can’t believe how good Robyn looked in her micro-mini dress at dinner.

It’s so titillating to scare Wendy with a rubber spider that they devote one third of the episode and break the fourth wall for her reaction?  Fascinating.

Ashley was deliberately misleading to the point of lying when she told Gizelle and Robyn that she was writing a statement in support of Monique’s character, when it was actually a smear against Candiace.  I thought Ashley was all hashtag truth.

They say the best defense is a good offense.  And that feels like Ashley's game.  

Get preemptively offended for no damn reason and then roll out the news that she wrote a statement so no one is mad at her.  

And that dinner...THATS why I fucks with Ms. Robyn Dixon.  I was so happy when she reminded Ashley about how she was all up in her business, making judgments and shittalking her husband while her husband was out there grabbing butts.  

Ashley can all the way miss me with her difference without a distinction...yeah, Candace talked about you on social media, but do you think more people watch the show or hand around on Candace's instagram?  You gleefully aired out Robyns business for a national television audience.  Even after being asked, multiple times, not to do it.