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gonzosgirrl

S15.E16 Drag Me Away (From You)

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Sam and Dean are asked to investigate the murder of a childhood friend, calling them back to a motel from their past and perplexing the brothers with a case they thought was solved a long time ago.

Original air date 10/22/2020

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I liked the epi until the last scene.  I felt like punching Sam (like he would even feel a punch from me, LOL).  It's ridiculous. It was perfectly alright for Dean to sacrifice himself 5 years ago (has it really been that long), but not for Jack?  It was OK for Sam to jump in the pit to lock up Lucifer, but Jack is too precious?  What is this stupidity?  I'm not saying they should be happy about it.  They weren't happy about those two occasions either. But, they were still willing to do it, because it had to be done.  And it's Jack's choice. It's not like they're setting him up like they are with Amara.  That, to me, should be Sam's bigger ethical dilemma.

Rant over.

That said, I liked the case. It was kind of creepy.  Has anyone seen the movie House?  There was a ghost that didn't have the power to kill people, but she could make them see things and they would kill themselves.  That's where I thought this was going when Dean was going to stab himself with an imaginary knife.  I like a bit of a fake out once in a while.  

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So they make a point of saying Jack is going along with Billie's plan because mean old Dean won't forgive him for murdering Mary. Then they have him lie to Sam about it, and self righteous Sam huffs in disgust. Somehow, Chuck is destroying worlds, but Dean is the bad guy. Fuuuuuuuck you, show.

Meghan makes Berens look like a Dean girl.

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Kudos to Dabb's sycophant for discovering the basic concepts of guilt and trauma. Dean feeling guilty about not killing the monster as a kid was in character, and his reaction to hide the nest of dead kids from everyone else was also rather affecting. At least it was better than Dean happily munching on a sandwich and serving as comic relief right after an archangel busted out of his head and slaughtered all the AU hunters.

Less kudos for yet another iteration of "poor little Sammy didn't get a normal life". WE FUCKING GET IT. Sam couldn't enjoy an upper middle-class existence and was forced to keep moving around. But it's kind of hard to feel sorry for him when his sibling had it objectively worse and has it brought up way less.

It was an interesting dynamic for Billie to chat with Dean and only Dean about "getting his house in order". The undeniable implication is that he's the one considered "in charge," who has the final say in how things go down with the members of his "house". Otherwise, Billie would have just gone to Sam and told him everything. Of course, for these writers, giving a character agency also means dumping all the blame on their shoulders. In exchange for Dean's status as Death's conversational equal, he also has to be the bad guy who keeps secrets that will blow up in his face. I mean, I guess I'll take it? 🤷

I know Jack's quest is being framed as noble and tragic, but his motivation reeks of tunnel-minded selfishness. It's pretty damn immature to commit a grand gesture of martyrdom just to force someone to forgive you. It's emotional manipulation at its finest. Jack thinking this way makes sense, but it's also being framed so positively. Definitely seems more like a writing defect than a character defect.

Sam's bitching and moaning at the end left a sour taste in my mouth. It doesn't even matter why he's angry anymore; I've had more than my fill of Pissbaby Sam over the previous seasons and I'm just done with that aspect of him. At least Dean's brief reticence, though not sparkly-pure in terms of morality, was somewhat interesting. But seriously, Sam is angry at Dean for wanting to preserve the last existing universe at the cost of one life, a sacrifice that both of them have made and let each other make? Geezus, just pull your head out of Nougat Boy's ass already, dude.

The case itself was just a pale rip-off of Something Wicked. Not too terrible, though, which is high praise for this writer.

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I’m confused, who are these two guys? I thought that this was the Jack Show starring Jack guest starring Jack and with a special appearance by Jack?! 

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7 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Yeah, that's a hard no from me. Fan fiction dreck. Anvils raining from the sky. 

They really are lining up to make Dean the villain here. 

Oh, don't worry, I'm sure that Dean will end up LEARNING HIS LESSON and have to APOLOGIZE for being WRONG. That's all the character is allowed to do lately. What an ugly hateful thing to do to the character, to treat him like this after 15 years.  I wish with all my heart that they had just left Dean out of the story instead.

4 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Meghan makes Berens look like a Dean girl.

Seriously!

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That was mediocre. And surprisingly, painful.

 

Like a foggy reminder of what the standalones of old used to be. Except now it's cheap looking/sounding, the actors are bored, and the writing quality fell off a cliff.

 

I guess the case of the week was watchable. There wasn't anything remarkable about it, especially not boring mini Sam. Dean was fine, but there wasn't any real character development to speak of. But honestly I'm glad they didn't try. The show is in a place right now where the main characters have been either ignored or turned into parodies of themselves for so long, they're pretty much shells used for the actors only. And there's no going back from that. The same way you're not going to be able to start a car back up if it hasn't moved in years, you can't just conjure up character development if your characters haven't been really used in ages. And the writers made it clear time and time again since like season 13 that they'd given up on making the necessary repairs.

It obviously sucks because I wanted that kind of episode so badly for the last season to go out with a good memory, but I also knew they'd never have what it takes to pull that off. So my expectations were met unfortunately.

In this episode though, we get a good example of the writers trying to conjure up drama without doing any necessary work prior to that : Sam's tantrum in the car was such a sad and pathetic attempt at trying to make us feel something. But we'd been through that shit a hundred times, and Sam making a scene about all this makes no sense whatsoever. But we're close to the end so they had to had that bit of tension. I gotta question the intelligence of anybody who'd fall for that cheap shit though. Sorry.

Also Billie just had to stop by and show that 1) Her jacket looks like a trash bag when she's sitting down and 2) this season's overall plot has been pure garbage and such a wasted opportunity. I don't give a rat's ass about anything that's going on. Sure the long hiatus made that even worse but how many times have we even seen Chuck ? How the fuck did they manage to turn God into the most boring villain the show's ever had, especially after such a promising start ?

 

Last thing I'll add to that rant is that the CW are huge assholes for giving such a tiny budget to the very last season of their longest running show. The music and visuals (CGI not included) are so shit they're making things even worse now.

 

Good luck closing all of this in 3 episodes.

Edited by BoxManLocke
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15 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

Kudos to Dabb's sycophant for discovering the basic concepts of guilt and trauma. Dean feeling guilty about not killing the monster as a kid was in character, and his reaction to hide the nest of dead kids from everyone else was also rather affecting. At least it was better than Dean happily munching on a sandwich and serving as comic relief right after an archangel busted out of his head and slaughtered all the AU hunters.

Less kudos for yet another iteration of "poor little Sammy didn't get a normal life". WE FUCKING GET IT. Sam couldn't enjoy an upper middle-class existence and was forced to keep moving around. But it's kind of hard to feel sorry for him when his sibling had it objectively worse and has it brought up way less.

It was an interesting dynamic for Billie to chat with Dean and only Dean about "getting his house in order". The undeniable implication is that he's the one considered "in charge," who has the final say in how things go down with the members of his "house". Otherwise, Billie would have just gone to Sam and told him everything. Of course, for these writers, giving a character agency also means dumping all the blame on their shoulders. In exchange for Dean's status as Death's conversational equal, he also has to be the bad guy who keeps secrets that will blow up in his face. I mean, I guess I'll take it? 🤷

I know Jack's quest is being framed as noble and tragic, but his motivation reeks of tunnel-minded selfishness. It's pretty damn immature to commit a grand gesture of martyrdom just to force someone to forgive you. It's emotional manipulation at its finest. Jack thinking this way makes sense, but it's also being framed so positively. Definitely seems more like a writing defect than a character defect.

Sam's bitching and moaning at the end left a sour taste in my mouth. It doesn't even matter why he's angry anymore; I've had more than my fill of Pissbaby Sam over the previous seasons and I'm just done with that aspect of him. At least Dean's brief reticence, though not sparkly-pure in terms of morality, was somewhat interesting. But seriously, Sam is angry at Dean for wanting to preserve the last existing universe at the cost of one life, a sacrifice that both of them have made and let each other make? Geezus, just pull your head out of Nougat Boy's ass already, dude.

The case itself was just a pale rip-off of Something Wicked. Not too terrible, though, which is high praise for this writer.

Ditto to all of this, even though it's a lot kinder than I wanted to be.

I'll just add sorry writers, but Dean is still my favorite character on this show, but the only thanks for that going to Jensen Ackles who continues to prove that freedom from these writers is really all he needs, at this point.

Only four more episodes to go.

Oh, and I will especially not miss the type of brother interactions that we got in that last scene and that these asshat writers just cannot seem to ever let go of and that make Sam continue to suck out loud in such a hypocritical fashion.

 

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And wasn't it special that Dabb's sycophant gave Sam the opportunity to lecture Dean about texting and driving. You know,  the thing Jensen filmed a PSA to combat in real life.  Have I mentioned that Meghan can go fuck herself? 

Edited by gonzosgirrl
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There was some stuff I liked about this episode. I am really glad that we got an episode focused on Sam and Dean and their relationship and their history, not focused on Jack and how he is the Most Important Person in the Universe, and seeing tiny Sam and Dean was fun at least. Case of the week itself was alright, decently spooky and tragic, and I thought young Dean hiding the dead kids from the others, despite how deeply it upset him, was very sad and very in character. 

For the most part though, this just seemed to be so by the numbers, a pale shade of previous episodes that explored young Sam and Dean, of monsters of the week, and of the show in general. I was excited to get one last real case before the show finally wraps up, and that it would go into Sam and Dean as kids, but this gave us nothing that the show hasn't already explored before, in more interesting ways. Oh poor baby Sam already wanted to go to college and is so angsty because he didnt get his nice middle class upbringing, and mean Dean giving him crap for it and telling him how he is destined to be a hunter (forget that his attitude is all Johns fault and that maybe raising his children to be his little monster hunter battalion wasnt the best parenting choice and that poor little Dean was forced to basically be his brothers parent while Sam got to be the protected special kid and...) and oh poor Sam mean Dean didnt tell him about Jacks suicide plan oh what a jerk! Of course, Sam and Dean have spent the last fifteen seasons jumping in front of every bullet they can find to try and sacrifice themselves and there was less of a freak out, but this is Jack, the Best and Most Special Person Ever of which the show now revolves around. Honestly, at this point, people on this show trying to sacrifice themselves left and right, as everyone on this show is constantly doing, often comes off as more selfish than selfless, a point that the show itself as commented on several times. The idea that everyone just thinks that Jack letting himself die is the only answer is ridiculous, this is what happens every single season, and they always come up with some other way, so why are they just sitting around waiting on death now? Now is Sam acting all pouty? This is...STUPID. Dean keeping this from Sam and Sam getting all pissy is just such manufactured drama that isnt at all necessary. We are only four episodes from the end, we dont have time for random pointless bickering. The whole show revolves around (or it should at least) the relationship between Sam and Dean, and in an episode focusing totally on them, and even having flashbacks of them solving a case as kids, I want to get more from them and their super complicated history than the same old same old. Sam wants to leave hunting, Dean was his dads good soldier, Dean keeps stuff from Sam to protect him, Sam gets pissed at Dean for stupid reasons, rinse and repeat. I just want to watch Sam and Dean deal with their actual issues or have fun banter or anything that feels natural for them, not this contrived drama.  

With the shows never ending love affair with Jack pushing everyone to the background, I almost forgot how much certain writers (who shall remain nameless...) so obviously prefer Sam over Dean and will go super overboard shoving Dean under the bus to make Sam look better. 

We get one more creepy kid for the road. 

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9 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

That was mediocre. And surprisingly, painful.

Like a foggy reminder of what the standalones of old used to be.

That's a good description! It really is sad to see the show ending on such a mediocre level.

31 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

Sam's bitching and moaning at the end left a sour taste in my mouth. It doesn't even matter why he's angry anymore; I've had more than my fill of Pissbaby Sam over the previous seasons and I'm just done with that aspect of him.

Oh, just wait! I'm sure next week we will have Castiel join him in castigating Dean. They will take turns. Personally I think that pissy, self-righteous Castiel is the thing I'm the most sick of.

This whole storyline seems awfully repetitive to me. Last season it was Chuck who was demanding that Jack be sacrificed, or he would end everything. And of course Dean refused to kill Jack for Chuck, because he is Dean. Now it is Billie demanding that Jack be sacrificed in order to save the world.  Every season must center on Jack, because he is the most valuable being in the universe, and every story must be about the threat of losing our precious baby. This is not what I wanted to be watching for the last few episodes of the show.

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15 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

 

For the most part though, this just seemed to be so by the numbers, a pale shade of previous episodes that explored young Sam and Dean, of monsters of the week, and of the show in general. I was excited to get one last real case before the show finally wraps up, and that it would go into Sam and Dean as kids, but this gave us nothing that the show hasn't already explored before, in more interesting ways.

 

This in particular just pisses me off. This episode reeked of the need to have one last flashback ep in a checkbox way instead of anybody in the writers room having an actually interesting story to tell.

Just baffling that this is the last standalone ever. They're obviously very limited by the budget but there's fuck all that felt really special this season.

Edited by BoxManLocke
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19 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

For the most part though, this just seemed to be so by the numbers, a pale shade of previous episodes that explored young Sam and Dean, of monsters of the week, and of the show in general. I was excited to get one last real case before the show finally wraps up, and that it would go into Sam and Dean as kids, but this gave us nothing that the show hasn't already explored before, in more interesting ways.

I agree! Really disappointing. I don't know why I expected anything better, though, considering the writers who are left.

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One thing nobody seems to notice is that *DEAN DID TELL SAM.*  It wasn't yet another case of Sam finding out by himself and getting pissed about it.  But he's pissed because Dean didn't come running to him as soon as he heard, and...what?  Sobbed on each other's shoulders?  

So, yes, Dean sat on it.  And we don't know if he would have told Sam before Cas or Jack did if Billie hadn't more or less forced his hand, but the fact is that, when given bad news, many people need time to process before discussing it with others, especially others that they know (as he said) will get overly emotional.  We know Dean doesn't do emotions well; he has to have his own emotions under control before he can handle someone else's.  So I don't really see anything wrong with Dean "sitting" on the news for a while, especially when immediately given something else to focus on.  

But yeah, Sam, get over it.  Be pissed if you must, but (as has been said before) don't be a bitch about it.  

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I mean the episodes aren't good, this one wasn't. Oh mean Dean who is ready to sacrifice Nougat Stu instead of being ready to sacrifice the world for Nougat Stu - after which Nougat Stu would still die because everything would die. 

And secreths and lieths drama? Seriously. At this point it's not even infuriating, it's boring as a conflict. 

But if I have to choose between Valium!Dean from the last few Seasons and this, I choose this. At least the character is alive onscreen. 

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2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Yeah, that's a hard no from me. Fan fiction dreck. Anvils raining from the sky. 

They really are lining up to make Dean the villain here. 

Eh. Moriah 2.0.  He will be the one to stop Jack and take care of Chuck. 

The more had him being obstinate and wrong and he came around...

I thought the rewriting of  their past could be a hint? I assumed that this was a retelling of the strigs episode because they were going for a witch that fed on kids...

41 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

One thing nobody seems to notice is that *DEAN DID TELL SAM.*  It wasn't yet another case of Sam finding out by himself and getting pissed about it.  But he's pissed because Dean didn't come running to him as soon as he heard, and...what?  Sobbed on each other's shoulders?  

So, yes, Dean sat on it.  And we don't know if he would have told Sam before Cas or Jack did if Billie hadn't more or less forced his hand, but the fact is that, when given bad news, many people need time to process before discussing it with others, especially others that they know (as he said) will get overly emotional.  We know Dean doesn't do emotions well; he has to have his own emotions under control before he can handle someone else's.  So I don't really see anything wrong with Dean "sitting" on the news for a while, especially when immediately given something else to focus on.  

But yeah, Sam, get over it.  Be pissed if you must, but (as has been said before) don't be a bitch about it.  

Yep.

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I've never understood this show's consistent need for anvils.  The constant reference to keeping secrets and how bad secrets are and how much better it is when everyone tells everyone everything during this episode made my head hurt.  We get it show!  Dean needs to tell Sam!  Though why Castiel didn't tell both Dean and Sam last episode is a head scratcher.  And in this episode, Castiel has time to text Dean to ask him if he's told Sam, but is unable to call Sam directly?   The whole mess was so unnecessary.

I actually liked the case.  The old hag in the vending machine legitimately freaked me out.  I hate putting my hand into the drawer of those things.  I keep imagining a guillotine type contraption 😬.  Young Dean shielding the rest from the "nest" of dead kids was heartbreaking.  

Billie is boring.  The original Death was such a fantastic character.  I'm so disappointed the show has to go out with a weak replacement.

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Okay, so the writer was on Twitter before, going on about how one of the scenes that she wrote made her cry -- she even put a line in the script about it, saying "I just hurt my own heart". 🙄  Any guesses as to which scene it was?

Edited by Bergamot
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16 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

Okay, so the writer was on Twitter before, going on about how one of the scenes that she wrote made her cry -- she even put a line in the script about it, saying "I just hurt my own heart". 🙄  Any guesses as to which scene it was?

Knowing her, it was probably poor, devastated Sammeh when Dean mocked his college dreams. 

The only even moderately emotional scenes for me were Dean's experience with the 'nest', both young and older.

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1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Knowing her, it was probably poor, devastated Sammeh when Dean mocked his college dreams. 

The only even moderately emotional scenes for me were Dean's experience with the 'nest', both young and older.

My guess was similar -- that it's the scene where Sam lays down in a row the gun, the knife, and the book about colleges and then stares at them. Not exactly subtle, was it? And no, it did not bring tears to my eyes. And actually my heart was completely unhurt.

And sorry, I thought the actor playing young Sam was kind of a dud. He was pretty much expressionless throughout the whole thing. The actor playing the other little brother did a better job emoting.

The actor playing young Dean was okay -- not great, but not too bad. My favorite young Deans are Ridge Canipe (Something Wicked and A Very Supernatural Christmas) and Dylan Everett (Bad Boys and About A Boy). This one was competent, but he didn't make me "see" young Dean the way Dylan Everettt did. Dylan might not have looked the way I thought young Dean should look, but he embodied him as a character and brought him to life nonetheless.

Andrew Dabb said something in regard to this episode about how supposedly the flashbacks in this one "informed the journey Sam and Dean have taken" (really?) and showed how they ended up where they are, but that didn't work for me either. And I think the problem was not in the acting, but in the writing.

For example, at the end, when young Dean says to young Sam that they made a great team, it was just words, because nothing in the episode conveyed that to me. Dean and Sam, because of their difficult childhoods and weird lives, always had a complicated and more intense bond than most siblings (see the other flashback episodes mentioned above). But I didn't get any sense of that in this episode.

Dean mentioning what a great team they made is a callback to the very first episode, when Dean says that to Sam after returning him to Stanford. But that is the problem with this writer. None of the moments between the brothers, like the discussions of going to college and being normal, have any real depth to them. They are just attempts to borrow emotional resonance by trading on the fact that we have seen scenes about this before in better-written episodes. There is never anything fresh added; to me it all feels like a rip-off of other writers. Or, as has already been mentioned, like bad fanfiction.

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1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The only even moderately emotional scenes for me were Dean's experience with the 'nest', both young and older.

*My* heart broke when AdultDean confessed that he'd had nightmares for weeks over the nest that YoungDean had seen. 

And he'd likely had no one to even confide in about them either. 

 

 

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Someone on twitter said the episode was actually scary, so I was all ready. And - uh, yeah John Wick's Baba Yaga was way scarier than the old Bish in a Party City costume.

Does anyone remember how cool Billie's introduction was? And how it seemed she would have some kind of connection to Sam? Then the Death role came which was actually intriguing but now...I'm not feeling her anymore. Though I love Lisa Berry. 

The Good: So I went in thinking I'd get SPN meets The Shining, which I'm surprised we haven't seen before (but my memory is foggy at this point). I LOVED the room. And the part when Dean stepped through the door, and then we got a factory on the other side, was pretty effective. Oh and the nest with the kids was disturbing. But...

The Bad: Otherwise, this was all AMATUER hour. Brother keeping secrets from each other, check. Dean being demeaned more, check. People being stupid (like WTF Sister chick, WHY would you leave the room without Sam?), check. Person The Brothers couldn't save comes back to mock them, check. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

3 hours ago, Myrelle said:

Ditto to all of this, even though it's a lot kinder than I wanted to be.

I'll just add sorry writers, but Dean is still my favorite character on this show, but the only thanks for that going to Jensen Ackles who continues to prove that freedom from these writers is really all he needs, at this point.

Only four more episodes to go.

Oh, and I will especially not miss the type of brother interactions that we got in that last scene and that these asshat writers just cannot seem to ever let go of and that make Sam continue to suck out loud in such a hypocritical fashion.

 

Dean is one of my all-time fav fictional characters, in spite of how they demean him as much as possible.

3 hours ago, ahrtee said:

One thing nobody seems to notice is that *DEAN DID TELL SAM.*  It wasn't yet another case of Sam finding out by himself and getting pissed about it.  But he's pissed because Dean didn't come running to him as soon as he heard, and...what?  Sobbed on each other's shoulders?  

So, yes, Dean sat on it.  And we don't know if he would have told Sam before Cas or Jack did if Billie hadn't more or less forced his hand, but the fact is that, when given bad news, many people need time to process before discussing it with others, especially others that they know (as he said) will get overly emotional.  We know Dean doesn't do emotions well; he has to have his own emotions under control before he can handle someone else's.  So I don't really see anything wrong with Dean "sitting" on the news for a while, especially when immediately given something else to focus on.  

But yeah, Sam, get over it.  Be pissed if you must, but (as has been said before) don't be a bitch about it.  

True dat!! Dean hesitated and wasn't going to at first. However, he course corrected without Sam without him having to find out from someone else. 

tenor.png

 

26 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

My guess was similar -- that it's the scene where Sam lays down in a row the gun, the knife, and the book about colleges and then stares at them. Not exactly subtle, was it? And no, it did not bring tears to my eyes. And actually my heart was completely unhurt.

And sorry, I thought the actor playing young Sam was kind of a dud. He was pretty much expressionless throughout the whole thing. The actor playing the other little brother did a better job emoting.

The actor playing young Dean was okay -- not great, but not too bad. My favorite young Deans are Ridge Canipe (Something Wicked and A Very Supernatural Christmas) and Dylan Everett (Bad Boys and About A Boy). This one was competent, but he didn't make me "see" young Dean the way Dylan Everettt did. Dylan might not have looked the way I thought young Dean should look, but he embodied him as a character and brought him to life nonetheless.

Andrew Dabb said something in regard to this episode about how supposedly the flashbacks in this one "informed the journey Sam and Dean have taken" (really?) and showed how they ended up where they are, but that didn't work for me either. And I think the problem was not in the acting, but in the writing.

For example, at the end, when young Dean says to young Sam that they made a great team, it was just words, because nothing in the episode conveyed that to me. Dean and Sam, because of their difficult childhoods and weird lives, always had a complicated and more intense bond than most siblings (see the other flashback episodes mentioned above). But I didn't get any sense of that in this episode.

Dean mentioning what a great team they made is a callback to the very first episode, when Dean says that to Sam after returning him to Stanford. But that is the problem with this writer. None of the moments between the brothers, like the discussions of going to college and being normal, have any real depth to them. They are just attempts to borrow emotional resonance by trading on the fact that we have seen scenes about this before in better-written episodes. There is never anything fresh added; to me it all feels like a rip-off of other writers. Or, as has already been mentioned, like bad fanfiction.

What about Caitlin saying, don't you ever wanna be, like normal or something Sam" Like Omg this is your life!" 

Yeah, young Sam was...I was trying to figure out who's the dead kid Dean found in the factory? Luckily the whip-smart writing had Dean say Sam's name to remind us. 

They've done a lot of telling and not showing on the show in general for years now. It's so annoying. 

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Quick thoughts...

The Good:
- Young Dean trauma.  And now Dean admitting he was freaked out by it.  
- The villain, Baba Yogis (so?), was new to me.  Effectively creepy as a child’s nightmare come to life. 
- Conversation with Death.  I don’t trust her.  And why is she taking a powder? And I think that was a key puzzle piece.  
- A reminder that Sam and Dean’s mental/physical trauma started at age 6mo & 4 years, respectively. We’ve only witnessed 15 years.  
 

The Bad:
- The Weechester actors were okay but not spectacular, hard to embrace at this late stage. 
- Placement of a flashback in the season.  
- Dean as the heavy.   On the one hand, his fury last week has laid bare his desperation and it’s understandable.  On the other hand, it seems unlikely he’ll let it play out and we know that.  
 

The Ugly
- Secrets? Now?  At least it didn’t last long.   

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I liked this monster story and felt the kids were good. Near vacant hotels are always kind of creepy. 

Billie popping in with inexplicable knowledge of other worlds, makes no sense to me. I should think other universes would be closed systems with their own Deaths concerned with the specifics  of their own worlds. I thought Death"s books aren't like stories that show details. I thought they just showed outcomes, not everything that leads up to it. It encourages me not to trust her, as I dont think she should know anything about other worlds. She just pushes her agenda, so relentlessly. They have positioned Dean to be so angry, that he questions nothing. It's like nothing else matters and Billie keeps stoking the fire.

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1 hour ago, Bergamot said:

The actor playing young Dean was okay -- not great, but not too bad. My favorite young Deans are Ridge Canipe (Something Wicked and A Very Supernatural Christmas) and Dylan Everett (Bad Boys and About A Boy). This one was competent, but he didn't make me "see" young Dean the way Dylan Everettt did. Dylan might not have looked the way I thought young Dean should look, but he embodied him as a character and brought him to life nonetheless.

I agree with the best young Dean but out of all of them on this round, young Dean and Young Travis stood out.  I did think the moment that we found out that young Dean was freaked out about finding the dead children was in character.  I think if we hadn't been spoiled with some really strong young actors this would have worked better.  If the story had been stronger...

1 hour ago, Myrelle said:
2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The only even moderately emotional scenes for me were Dean's experience with the 'nest', both young and older.

*My* heart broke when AdultDean confessed that he'd had nightmares for weeks over the nest that YoungDean had seen. 

And he'd likely had no one to even confide in about them either. 

This was the strongest moment in the show.  I did think the witch was creepy and more scary when we didn't see all of her and if this had been earlier in the series, it might have landed better.  But since it was Season 15, it didn't land.  The round of poor Sam, rinse and repeat...I think I missed some of it because I left to do something.  I might watch parts before I let my cable go tomorrow, but this wasn't what I would expect for the final season.  But then again, the bar is so low that I thought this one was stronger than last week.  Not much, but just a bit.

 

15 minutes ago, SueB said:

The Bad:
- The Weechester actors were okay but not spectacular, hard to embrace at this late stage. 
- Placement of a flashback in the season.  
- Dean as the heavy.   On the one hand, his fury last week has laid bare his desperation and it’s understandable.  On the other hand, it seems unlikely he’ll let it play out and we know that.  
 

The Ugly
- Secrets? Now?  At least it didn’t last long.   

 Yep, the Bad really sank the ep.  I can agree with your good.

 

4 hours ago, ahrtee said:

One thing nobody seems to notice is that *DEAN DID TELL SAM.* 

Oh I did notice, but then again I just wanted to ignore the entire scene.  It's been done to death.  Not really understanding why Dean didn't figure out that Jack would be a bomb since that was his story already...

So only one really strong ep this season...that's a shame.

 

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I was pissed less than 10 minutes into the show.  Boys get dumped at motel by John who drives off without a backward glance and Dean is immediately portrayed as a dick-again.  Poor big eyed Sammy only wants to grow up to be normal and go to college but Dean shoots down that idea.  No wonder Sam is angwy at his mean old big brother.  BARF.  

And after the flashback NotKill scene, "we make a great team" speech by young Dean, uh why is that?  Didn't you go by yourself to nest to kill the creepy thing?  How were they a team?   By the time this season is finally over and this once great show is put to rest, I will hate every character except Dean.  It's hard to keep watching the train wreck when there is only one good thing about it and the writers do everything they can to villainize that person.  I repeat last week's mantra:  this show blows.

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11 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

And wasn't it special that Dabb's sycophant gave Sam the opportunity to lecture Dean about texting and driving. You know,  the thing Jensen filmed a PSA to combat in real life.  Have I mentioned that Meghan can go fuck herself? 

I mean, come on. It's bad enough when the writers have to rinse off and repurpose any cool scene Dean has had the entire series for Sam and other characters - which BTW are made good and cool because it's DEAN and JENSEN performing them! But when your pettiness requires you to even reach outside of the show for something Jensen did that has nothing to do with the show or Jared and repurpose that, you're pathetic. Just go away already.

For the most part this just made me sad because it should have been spooky and heartwarming, but the writing was so childish and paint-by-numbers that it was neither of those things. We've seen and done all this before in much better scripts and much better seasons. I'm becoming increasingly depressed by how bad everything is - writing, wardrobe (seriously, who were those stylin' Winchester tweens?), lighting, cinematography, direction. This is not the way an iconic 15 year show should be limping out. Makes me want to cry.

The kids were okay - young Dean was probably the best of the bunch, but that's not saying a lot. I guess young Caitlin was okay too. I am surprised this writer allowed Dean the kill; but I guess since she was setting him up to have to deal with giant man-baby Sam in the Impala at the end, it was the absolute least she could do. And the least she could do is all she did. Must be super easy to get a WGA card these days.

I want at least to be happy that it was an episode sans Asstiel and Princess Jackie Poo Sue - but unfortunately their presence on the phone and the constant chatter about the Princess's upcoming WTFever is always in your face. It's always about the Princess even when the Princess isn't on screen. Sad, bad, MAD!

The best acted scene was, of course, the one between Billie and Dean. But even that didn't carry the weight it should have. As for Billie's oversized coat, I don't know when this particular episode was shot - I know it was earlier in 2020. But Lisa Berry was pregnant this year, so I'm assuming that required the wardrobe change.

Edited by PAForrest
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And the winner of the category the worst SPN writer is... Seriously, is there a competition among the spn writers who writes the dullest script this year or what?

Gosh, I hate Sam.

 

Edited by starfishka
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38 minutes ago, starfishka said:

And the winner of the category the worst SPN writer is... Seriously, is there a competition among the spn writers who writes the dullest script this year or what?

Gosh, I hate Sam.

She's only a 'writer' because she is Badd's 'assistant' and they probably couldn't get any real writers to attach their names to this shitshow of a final season. She should be embarrassed by the dreck she wrote, but instead, she's basking in the suck-ups on Twitter. Blech.

Making Dean out to be the bad guy in two-season arc that includes the child of Lucifer that murdered his mother, a 'best friend' who lied about said murderer and repeatedly chose him over his 'best friend', and actual God, who is a petty, murderous bag of dicks, takes some hubris. I'd say Badd can rot in hell, but he's turned that into a joke, too.

I wonder if Sam will be so irate at Castiel when he finds out about his big secret? Even money says that gets blamed on Dean, too, since Castiel couldn't trust him enough to tell him.

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It's the little things...

(see above for overall episode impressions)

I did a rewatch and picked out some little gems that I enjoyed:
- This ranks up there for awesome hotel sets.  I'm glad we got one more before series end.  The 70's super-styling was amazing.
- It was good to here the family song again.  I hope we here it again in 19/20.  We need a "now" moment.
- The "diners only" rule still seemed to apply.  I like those sets too.
- I didn't appreciate how much of a mind trip Death was laying on Dean until this second time around.  She really is pulling his strings.  I hope he realizes it. Which means, of course, that Jack blowing up Chuck and Amara is NOT the solution.
- Timing of this was supposed to be right before "Bad Boys".  This took place in Jan 1993.
- Sam got in "lore" and "so get this" one more time.  That was nice.
- I REALLY like that they went back to a legendary myth (Baba Yaga) for one last case.

I am pondering Dean's anger.  He's coiled up pretty tight.  TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLE.  But it's not Mary he's still angry about IMO as much as it is Chuck.  And I'm surprised Death admitted that Jack said yes to earn Dean's forgiveness.  Dean is smart enough to see that for the manipulation it is.  So, is DEAN just DONE? Is he "kill Chuck no matter the cost"?  It sure seems like it.  I think that has no chance of lasting.  But does he think he and Sam and the Supernatural universe are going to survive or does he think the whole thing is a suicide run for everyone, not just Jack?  He's white knuckling it right now.  But I'm not sure he sees a happy ending even if they kill Chuck.  

And Sam?  I have no problem with Sam being so pissed he can't talk about it.  Holding back WAS bullshit.  And Dean KNEW it and it didn't last long.  He didn't hold back but a few days, and it's out there now.  So I'm not up for any more lectures on lying.  But Sam gets to be pissed for a bit until he cools off.  Dean is "Chuck must die", no matter the cost.  And Sam is not there.   They are eventually going to have to hash this out.  Since there are only 4 more episodes left, I'm thinking "soon".  

 

Note:  Did anyone catch the "Rains Down in Africa" song?  A favorite of the writer and it was indicated on Twitter it was in the episode but I didn't hear it.

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14 minutes ago, SueB said:

And Sam?  I have no problem with Sam being so pissed he can't talk about it.  Holding back WAS bullshit.  And Dean KNEW it and it didn't last long.  He didn't hold back but a few days, and it's out there now.  So I'm not up for any more lectures on lying.  But Sam gets to be pissed for a bit until he cools off.  Dean is "Chuck must die", no matter the cost.  And Sam is not there.   They are eventually going to have to hash this out.  Since there are only 4 more episodes left, I'm thinking "soon". 

It's not that Sam shouldn't have said wtf Dean? But he should have then said yeah, I get it. And he may well do that in the next episode. But what we're left with in the meantime, again and some more, is Sam with the 'moral high ground' and Dean the unstable bully who decides things for poor, wooby Sam. And there are four episodes left, period. It's a disservice to the characters and to the fans who are completely over this dynamic.

Edited by gonzosgirrl
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21 minutes ago, SueB said:

And Sam is not there

He is there, though.  For weeks he's been on board with using Jack as a weapon.  Just two episodes ago, Sam tells Dean that Jack is under a lot of pressure with everything he has to do.

Does Sam really think Jack just needs to wave his hands and flash glowy eyes and God will just fade away?  They've been around the block they know how these things end. 

Sam was fine with Jack's destiny until it came time for him to climb up on his high horse.  Did Sam Chief Hypocrite forget he lied to Dean about his visions for weeks earlier this season? 

Sam seems to enjoy sitting on the fence and playing both sides and then trying to act like he's somehow morally superior. 

 

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Honestly, Sam needs to STFU. His rant at Dean was stupid.

And frankly his anger made no sense at all.  It came out of the blue. Did Sam bother to ask Dean how long he had known about Jack's situation before flipping out?  Has Sam forgotten about all the situations he failed to tell Dean particular information, as recently as s12...and then got mad at Dean when Dean was angry with him after the fact, after the 411 or lack thereof resulted in something bad happening? This could have been handled by Sam and Dean in a better way that didn't leave Dean as the bad guy.  It could have been phrased that Sam was pissed because he was scared that Jack would die without him saying goodbye or something else.  It could have been written that Sam was really just scared about losing Jack and let Dean know that.      

It sure as heck didn't come across as anything but Sam being pissed that he wasn't in the know...because Dean didn't think Sam could handle it.  and thats all

And I don't think Jared's acting here helped. I thought he way over played it that it became laughable. Or maybe he played it as written and directed. Either I felt sorry for both Jared and Jensen on that scene.

What I really want to know, is what does Billie really mean when she is telling Dean to get his house in order? It almost feels like a trap episode for Dean, meaning he might take it as he has to get everyone in in the plan for Jack to die but still kill God. And yet I feel like  there is really some other dumb lesson Dean has to learn (the metaphorical version of get his house in order).    

My hope is that neither of those things happen and Dean does his own thing that no one knows about.. one that saves them all, and doesn't go with either Jack's or Billies or whatever Cas is up to. Because that would be in character for Dean. Sadly, though, if he does come up with his own plan, and it does work, he'll get berated for it.

Overall, I didn't like this episode much, was distracted by how much the actor playing  Dean neither looked like nor embodied Dean like Dylan Everett did despite not looking much like Dean. The kid was a decent actor but i sure didn't think I was watching a young Dean Winchester.

And that may be a result of the writing and directing more than the youth actor himself. Young Sam, was just... There to stare at college guide and be picked on by mean old Dean and be Dean's guilt trip.

I've said it before, my worry is that the show is trying to turn Dean into John and the John that is a complete asshole not the young John who was idealistic. Given the lax treatment John got in Lebanon, I fear Drabb wants to make Dean into a worse father than John, by comparison.

Yeah this episode was just , yuck.

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9 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It's not that Sam shouldn't have said wtf Dean? But he should have then said yeah, I get it. And he may well do that in the next episode. But what we're left with in the meantime, again and some more, is Sam with the 'moral high ground' and Dean the unstable bully who decides things for poor, wooby Sam. And there are four episodes left, period. It's a disservice to the characters and to the fans who are completely over this dynamic.

This is it for me, too.

And I've come to completely loathe the vaunted brother dynamic because of it.

My only feeling after this one is that I hope they either kill Dean off or wipe his memories entirely of his "loving" family because I'm now completely convinced that it's the only way that the character will be able to experience any true peace.

But regardless of how it ends, it is a balm to this fan to know that at least the actor who portrays this utterly and ever tragic character will finally have earned a break from the numerous writers and showrunners who kept these characters from any real or true character growth for 15 friggin' years.

The writing for this one just proved to me how far past time it was to end it.

Thank God someone finally had the cajones to see that.

 

 

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How come Sam didn't rant about Dean not telling him about the dead kids in the nest?  Or were we supposed to see that Dean is still treating Sam like he was 8 years old and needed to be protected?  

And mostly, why can't Sam see that *not everything is about him.*  Maybe Dean doesn't tell something because he doesn't want to talk about it/think about it himself.  

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55 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

He is there, though.  For weeks he's been on board with using Jack as a weapon.  Just two episodes ago, Sam tells Dean that Jack is under a lot of pressure with everything he has to do.

Does Sam really think Jack just needs to wave his hands and flash glowy eyes and God will just fade away?  They've been around the block they know how these things end. 

Sam was fine with Jack's destiny until it came time for him to climb up on his high horse.  Did Sam Chief Hypocrite forget he lied to Dean about his visions for weeks earlier this season? 

Sam seems to enjoy sitting on the fence and playing both sides and then trying to act like he's somehow morally superior. 

 

And the actual dialogue, like a neon sign, very easily, let's many of us know exactly where it's heading, and what they've wanted us, and more blatantly than ever before, been steering us towards thinking and feeling about each character since Badd took over-Sam the Wise is right and Dean the Hothead is wrong-yet again and some more.

This is So. Old. and I am just So. Over. it, at this point. 

Edited by Myrelle · Reason: Revision
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40 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I've said it before, my worry is that the show is trying to turn Dean into John

I think you could be right and Jensen has (yet again and some more) been put into the position of trying to save his character from writing like this and he is, once again, fighting tooth and nail as an actor,  just trying to do that.

All I can think is that he must be completely exhausted from continually having to try and do this, at this point.

I'll take anything further I have on this to the B vs J thread.

 

 

 

 

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I know that the real reason we never saw or heard John was because the show either couldn't get or didn't want to pay Jeffrey Dean Morgan to show up for a cameo, but it just makes me look so terrible, possibly even more than they want him to look. Its bad enough that he regularly leaves his sons alone as he drags them around the country on a regular basis in sketchy hotels while training them to be his little revenge army, especially Dean, but he wont even get out of the damn car to say hi to come? Not even a "hi kids" as they get into the car? Its a lot like their issues with Mary, it felt like they just didn't want to pay for another main cast member for very long, so they came up with increasingly ridiculous reasons for her to not be near her sons, and it made her look like an awful neglectful mom who threw away her chance to get to know her sons. Its really kind of hard to tell how the show wants us to feel about John, they have kind of wavered between showing him as a full on abusive parent to a harsh but well meaning man who loved his sons but was too blinded by loss to be the father they needed, depending on who is writing him at the time. I guess thats why they just told us over and over what an awesome mom and person Mary was (despite us never really seeing that) just so that nobody would get confused. 

This whole fight between Sam and Dean is so lame and contrived, and while its most obviously supposed to be throwing Dean under the bus, it doesn't make Sam look great either. Dean gets to look like he is hiding things from his brother, while Sam gets to look like a petty and immature child. Sam being this mad doesn't even make sense, its not even like Dean hid this for a long time and Sam found out on his own or from someone else, he did tell him and I dont think that much time has passed since Dean found out. And neither Jack or Cas told him either, and they knew longer than Dean, so is he going to be mad at them too? Or is it just Deans fault because its Dean? Sam has certainly kept things from Dean before, so why is this so much more dramatic? This is why I so often end up hating these "character hides truth from other character to "protect" them stories, we all know how its going to play out. Character One lies to Character two to protect them or some such nonsense, goes through a bunch of trouble to keep it from them, and when they inevitably find out they get pissed off and everything is even worse than if they had just told them the thing in the first place. Its so often very obviously contrived fake drama by writers who dont want to have to write any real drama based on actual character conflicts. 

It might have worked better if they changed the episodes format a bit to let Dean tell Sam the truther earlier, let Sam get upset about the situation and not being told, but have him quickly show understanding as to why Dean hid this from him for a bit, and have them move past this quickly and start looking at options. Having it happen at the end, with Dean apologetic and Sam being pissy, is just a sour note to leave the episode on and puts way too much of this on Dean as the "bad guy" in the situation. 

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4 hours ago, SueB said:

- This ranks up there for awesome hotel sets.  I'm glad we got one more before series end.  The 70's super-styling was amazing.

I have to agree - in fact, I thought the 70's style motel room sets were hands down the best part of the episode. Takes me back to the good ol' pre-bunker days of motel hopping. I miss those days, so it was a welcome change of pace to see the effort put into recreating those sets again, one last time.

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I have to be honest,  I don't even really see it as some sort of big lie.  Dean knew for maybe a few days after Cas dumped the responsibility of telling Sam into his lap, thus washing his own hands of it, but it was really CASTIEL'S responsibility to tell Sam, not to dump it on Dean. So it took Dean a few days to tell him, so what?

He DID tell him, and told him before anything happened.  I don't see "didn't tell someone 5 minutes after they found out" as "keeping a secret".    Maybe if you wait until the last minute but Dean didn't.   To me that's just "processing the information" time which anyone ought to have a right to in that situation.

To me at best this is an eyeroll situation "::eyeroll::You could have told me right away, geez" and then move on. 

Certainly not a big whiny ass baby blow out like Sam did.  It's not Dean's fault, it wasn't Dean's decision, it wasn't even Dean's plan.  Dean was just the one who got the job of dealing with Sam dumped on him, as usual.  No one else really wants to deal with Sam apparently so they just leave it up to Dean.

Edited by tessathereaper
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Regardless of how you felt about the Impala fight or how you feel about the set up for it....Jensen and Jared gave it everything they had, they really went at it.  I appreciate that effort from them. I wish the writers were contributing half as much.

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5 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

Regardless of how you felt about the Impala fight or how you feel about the set up for it....Jensen and Jared gave it everything they had, they really went at it.  I appreciate that effort from them. I wish the writers were contributing half as much.

Does  "silk purse....sow's ear" sound familiar?

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I pretty much had trouble watching after how awful they had young Dean treat young Sam in the first scene about the college book. Dean NEVER has treated him badly - always took care of him, calling him, protecting him. Bullshit. 

I was actually okay with him not telling Sam right away because that is in character for Dean. But Sam needs to save some of his righteous anger for can-do-no-wrong-even-when-i-kill-your-mom Jack. He sat on this for weeks. Dean, maybe a few days. Let him take a breath Sam. 

The case itself was fine. I really enjoyed seeing the Samulet again and Dean's reaction to the dead kids/Sam. 

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2 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

Regardless of how you felt about the Impala fight or how you feel about the set up for it....Jensen and Jared gave it everything they had, they really went at it.  I appreciate that effort from them. I wish the writers were contributing half as much.

 

Jared trying in this scene actually made things worse.

 

Made Sam look like an overly dramatic pissbaby coupled with that script. Everybody remembers there were several scenes like this literally years ago, where one of the brothers withheld something for a little while and when they finally came clean, the other one reacted calmly and took it as a good thing. Those scenes were heartmwarming, they showed growth, maturity and acceptance.

 

So stupid of the writers to think they could rewind, pretend that never happened and hope everybody would take it at face value. Nobody's buying this shit, and it's insulting.

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9 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

 

Jared trying in this scene actually made things worse.

 

Made Sam look like an overly dramatic pissbaby coupled with that script. Everybody remembers there were several scenes like this literally years ago, where one of the brothers withheld something for a little while and when they finally came clean, the other one reacted calmly and took it as a good thing. Those scenes were heartmwarming, they showed growth, maturity and acceptance.

 

So stupid of the writers to think they could rewind, pretend that never happened and hope everybody would take it at face value. Nobody's buying this shit, and it's insulting.

It worked for me considering the nature of the secret.  I thought both guys did a fantastic job.

Edited by Casseiopeia
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25 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

Jared trying in this scene actually made things worse.

I agree. His acting choice was over the top. I believe I called him Sanctimonious Sam. And trust me, he doesn't have a leg to stand on!

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Many moons ago I used to count the seconds until the new episodes aired. Then I’d phone a friend and we’d watch again and excitedly discuss every detail in detail. Those days are long gone. My friend left during the MOL days. And I don’t even watch live anymore.

I mostly fast forwarded through the children at the Hotel for Unaccompanied Minors. Not wanting to pan child actors... but these two were far from the energy and screen presence needed to portray young Dean and Sam. It’s been done so much better in the past. Anyway the monster was run of the mill and Sam’s just as guilty of keeping secrets. Do we really need to go down that tired road yet again. Sigh... it’s getting near the end. Shouldn’t things be ramping up?

Chuck, Death. I no longer understand or even care about motives. 

Sorry that’s all I got about this episode 

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Maybe it's because the end is nigh, or maybe it's because the writing was just that bad and Dean fans have hadit, but I've read more negative commentary about this episode than any in recent memory.  Badd's sycophant really stepped in it. The fact he handed over one of the last few episodes of the series to his assistant is just one more item on the long list of reasons I loathe him.  

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