S11.E05: The Honeymoon Begins

[brilliantbreakfast]

On 8/13/2020 at 12:05 AM, Yeah No said:

I have to admit, I already have a little crush on Bennett.  He reminds me of my first and second boyfriends put together.  I grew up in a Jewish neighborhood in NYC and my first BFs were Jewish (I am 25% Ashkenazi myself).  Bennett and Amelia totally remind me of so many quirky, smart, interesting, cultured young people I grew up with in the 1970s.  They are just a little more modern in some ways.  I think they're a little more out there than most people I knew but not that dissimilar in other ways.

I would have SO been interested in him in my 20s.  The close relationship with his mother would have been a red flag for me, though.  I  AM Jewish and the mothers of most of the guys I was involved with were utter nightmares (as was mine, full disclosure), to the point where I decided I wanted someone just like my college boyfriend (who wasn't as quirky as Bennett, but quirky enough) only without a mother.  (I actually did end up meeting and marrying one and we were together 30 years before he died.)

The NOT having a mother is its own baggage. My husband had all kinds of conflicts (unresolved grief + rage) abut his mother's death when he was 12.  Bennett apparently feels he came close to losing his; he mentioned cancer.  These guys tend to have major abandonment fears, and marrying a doctor who may have to leave could come back and bite him.  He seems unafraid of dealing with and talking about feelings, though, and that may help.

My mother would have HATED Bennett, though.  On the Jewish Husband Mandatory Acceptable Profession Hierarchy of the 1970s-80s (consisting of, in order, Doctor, Lawyer, Dentist, CPA), "actor/musician/gardener/pedicab operator" isn't even on the list.  I was supposed to find someone who could support me in the style to which she wanted to be accustomed.  

I will say, though, that the quirky boyfriend can be a challenge as a husband unless you really, truly know that you are OK with being the main breadwinner. Mine eventually stumbled into a career but I'll be honest -- it was easier when he was in a dead end job being quirky.  Some people just don't do well when they decide to "grow up" and enter the hierarchical career world.

All that said, I LOVE Amelia and Bennett.  I find myself wishing I could BE them, perhaps because in some ways I WAS them. I hope they stay together.  Having similar quirky interests and worldview does keep you together even when things get tough.

Edited August 16, 2020 by brilliantbreakfast

[Jeanne222]

19 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

I applaud Henry for joining the cast of this dumpster fire clown car going off a cliff show...

He represents the"shy" friends and family members who we love dearly and rely on but seems to have a hard time connecting with a love match.

Questioning his sexuality is what the older generation does to explain his inability to find a gf.🙄

He is the guy who comes to the bar to hang out with the work group and ends up watching the "Bretts" leaving with the girls who have their beer goggles on.

He's the guy who visits your Dad/Mom when they are in the hospital or send flowers with a card if he's never met them.

Once invited they fit in with your family's or friend's home comfortably because in small settings they charm and enchant with their good manners, courteous demeanor and gentle humor.

We all have Henrys and Henriettas in our lives...

 

Or wish we had one in our lives!  Christina just might find the guy that doesn't cheat, listens to her and brings her a cup of tea when she's feeling down.  He won't cheat on her and he won't let her down.

I'm a fan of all the Henry and Henriettas  out there!

[Hangin Out]

1 hour ago, brilliantbreakfast said:

I would have SO been interested in him in my 20s.  The close relationship with his mother would have been a red flag for me, though.  I  AM Jewish and the mothers of most of the guys I was involved with were utter nightmares (as was mine, full disclosure), to the point where I decided I wanted someone just like my college boyfriend (who wasn't as quirky as Bennett, but quirky enough) only without a mother.  (I actually did end up meeting and marrying one and we were together 30 years before he died.)

The NOT having a mother is its own baggage. Mine had all kinds of conflicts (unresolved grief + rage) abut his mother's death when he was 12.  Bennett apparently could have lost his; he mentioned cancer.  These guys tend to have major abandonment fears, and marrying a doctor who may have to leave could come back and bite him.  He seems unafraid of dealing with and talking about feelings, though, and that may help.

My mother would have HATED Bennett, though.  On the Jewish Husband Mandatory Acceptable Profession Hierarchy of the 1970s-80s (consisting of, in order, Doctor, Lawyer, Dentist, CPA), "actor/musician/gardener/pedicab operator" isn't even on the list.  I was supposed to find someone who could support me in the style to which she wanted to be accustomed.  

I will say, though, that the quirky boyfriend can be a challenge as a husband unless you really, truly know that you are OK with being the main breadwinner. Mine eventually stumbled into a career but I'll be honest -- it was easier when he was in a dead end job being quirky.  Some people just don't do well when they decide to "grow up" and enter the hierarchical career world.

All that said, I LOVE Amelia and Bennett.  I find myself wishing I could BE them, perhaps because in some ways I WAS them. I hope they stay together.  Having similar quirky interests and worldview does keep you together even when things get tough.

I love all these before and first marriage stories.  All so interesting.  They should have a thread for them.  Courtship and marriage were so different then.

[seacliffsal]

13 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

I agree that it’s not her job to “get him out of his comfort zone, but my God, he is one boring person. They are completely mismatched.

Cristina wondered correctly why they were matched. I do too - I mean, there isn’t even a love of mutual cats to fall back on. Only reason had to be the drama....

I believe that they were matched because of his friends-the girl squad.  I think the producers thought that they would bring the drama and tension with Christina, but it didn't look like she was going to go along with that plan when after the wedding reception she said that she liked them and thought they liked her.  The only thing that seemed unique about Henry during the application process was that his female best friend (who he seemingly had feelings for) showed up with him and went through the process "supporting" him.  Just like they matched both Miles and Woody (best friends who applied together) I think they were impressed that Kristine showed up with Henry and wanted to see if they could exploit that relationship with whomever they matched with Henry from some drama.

[Kira53]

16 hours ago, JapMo said:

Maybe, but my issue is with Little Miss Perfect Olivia.  Did anyone else think she wasn't telling her true feelings about having children?  I don't think she EVER wants to have kids.  She brought the subject up to Brett and had the same sick look on her face that you had when you were in grade school and thought the test was going to be the next day and you hadn't studied.  To me it was the look of pure dread...she was afraid to hear his response.  Yet everything she said about having kids was negative.  Brett's face lit up when he talked about being a dad.  So she backed down and wouldn't come out and say it.  Instead she kept leaving little openings like 'if you really want them then maybe we could...but not for a loooonnngggg time'. 

I'd love to know what she told the experts about the subject of children.

I think Olivia's opinion about having children was affected by a 3 1/2 year pause in dating probably because of a disastrous relationship. Now that she's looking at a husband that can share the finances as well as being a parent I'm sure she's a lot more open to having children. When you're single, have no prospects for another relationship, having children is often not something that you even want to allow yourself to want. I hope they can make it As a successful marriage. But I don't have a lot of hope for Olivia and Brett, but if they are able to stay together, I'm betting that all of her nurturing nature will grow and grow. She's a nurse practitioner and choosing that career, suggests to me that there is some level of a nurturing nature.  

I bet at a 3 year reunion, she'll be pregnant.

[humbleopinion]

1 hour ago, Kira53 said:

 

I bet at a 3 year reunion, she'll be pregnant.

Or will have 15 cats.....

[Hangin Out]

4 hours ago, Silver Bells said:

I love all these before and first marriage stories.  All so interesting.  They should have a thread for them.  Courtship and marriage were so different then.

Plus, I should say second, third or forth marriages.  A little different, but still the same.  Marriage is marriage, but not for everyone .. children either.  Whatever.  Don’t want to leave anyone out, lol.  Singles too, who love their life and wouldn’t change it.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Silver Bells

[Boo Boo]

2 hours ago, Kira53 said:

I think Olivia's opinion about having children was affected by a 3 1/2 year pause in dating probably because of a disastrous relationship. Now that she's looking at a husband that can share the finances as well as being a parent I'm sure she's a lot more open to having children. When you're single, have no prospects for another relationship, having children is often not something that you even want to allow yourself to want. I hope they can make it As a successful marriage. But I don't have a lot of hope for Olivia and Brett, but if they are able to stay together, I'm betting that all of her nurturing nature will grow and grow. She's a nurse practitioner and choosing that career, suggests to me that there is some level of a nurturing nature.  

I bet at a 3 year reunion, she'll be pregnant.

I'm confused about the timeline of Olivia's 3 1/2 year relationship. When talking to his family, she didn't date much in NO b/c she basically just got there...even though she had been there for 4 years.  Did the 3 1/2 year relationship happen in NO?  If so, why didn't she say to Brett's brothers "I had a long term relationship and have only been single for 1/2 a year in NO.  Or did that 3 1/2 year relationship happen before NO?

I don't know why but I just don't feel like Olivia, as sweetsie pie as she comes off, is being authentic.  

[humbleopinion]

I thought it has been 3.5 years SINCE her last relationship....

And she has lived in NOLA for less than 2 years.

Edited August 16, 2020 by humbleopinion

[Boo Boo]

32 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

I thought it has been 3.5 years SINCE her last relationship....

And she has lived in NOLA for less than 2 years.

Ah, why did I think she lived in NO for four years? I thought that's what she told the brothers -- she didn't date much, she just moved there 4 years ago.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Boo Boo

[DocTerv]

I'm trying to imagine what Henry's interviews must have been like.

Producer: So Henry, you want to marry a stranger?

Henry: Silence. More silence. Yes.

Producer: Are there particular traits you are looking for in a wife?

Henry: Silence. More silence. Uncomfortable twitch. No. 

And they came to the conclusion he'd be great TV? I find it painful to watch someone so incredibly uncomfortable in social situations.  

[humbleopinion]

6 hours ago, Boo Boo said:

Ah, why did I think she lived in NO for four years? I thought that's what she told the brothers -- she didn't date much, she just moved there 4 years ago.

I went back to the reception where Olivia was talking to the brothers and she said she’s been in NOLA 4 years this summer and didn’t do much dating so No chance she would have popped up on one of the doofus brothers’ dating app screens as they swiped left.

Now where did I get 2 years from...no matter...your answer has been verified.

Olivia told Brett that she didn’t see herself as a parent even though she loves her sister’s kids at the monkey bars and rings.

Edited August 17, 2020 by humbleopinion

[Boo Boo]

1 hour ago, humbleopinion said:

I went back to the reception where Olivia was talking to the brothers and she said she’s been in NOLA 4 years this summer and didn’t do much dating so No chance she would have popped up on one of the doofus brothers’ dating app screens as they swiped left.

Now where did I get 2 years from...no matter...your answer has been verified.

Ah ha, thanks!  I just remember posting here that it's odd she was saying she hadn't dated much, she hasn't been in NOLA long, and then thinking, what? Four years is almost half a decade!

[Hangin Out]

5 hours ago, Boo Boo said:

don't know why but I just don't feel like Olivia, as sweetsie pie as she comes off, is being authentic.

Me either.  To me, she looks like she can become very bossy and want things totally her way.

[Boo Boo]

2 hours ago, Silver Bells said:

Me either.  To me, she looks like she can become very bossy and want things totally her way.

For me, I just feel like she's playing a part of "I'm adventurous!  I want to do things, not parent right now!" when I feel like she's more than likely a stage IV clinger who scares off men.

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Boo Boo

[ShowFan]

10 hours ago, Kira53 said:

Now that she's looking at a husband that can share the finances as well as being a parent I'm sure she's a lot more open to having children.

Not necessarily. Some people (more than you’d expect!) simply don’t like children and don’t want to have any ever. Speaking from personal experience. 

[Kira53]

50 minutes ago, ShowFan said:

Not necessarily. Some people (more than you’d expect!) simply don’t like children and don’t want to have any ever. Speaking from personal experience. 

Olivia said she "didn't see herself as a parent".  She didn't say she didn't like children.  In fact she said she liked her sisters children. I know I was single and I didn't see myself as a parent because I didn't see myself as a single parent. If I've been in an active, good relationship I could've easily seen myself as a parent, especially if I had gotten married.  Olivia seems like the same type of woman that knows she has a high stress career and that she doesn't see herself deliberately being a single parent working full time.  I've seen marriages break up because the woman changes her mind and decides she wants to have children and her husband still doesn't. Suddenly she doesn't understand why she can't convince her husband that he'd be a great dad. She changed her point of view and he husband didn't.  I'm interested to see how much it is the editing monkeys or Olivia's deep, desire to be childless whether she was single or married.

[Yeah No]

On 8/14/2020 at 1:46 PM, Empress1 said:

Pastor Cal seems to be the expert that addresses these kind of red flags most consistently.

He probably has it written into his contract that they show him objecting so he doesn't ruin whatever reputation he thinks he has.

On 8/14/2020 at 5:44 PM, rebel2u said:

Henry, I think, is a recruiter for a health care organization.  Brett is the IT guy.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I sure hope Henry is not on the spectrum and that TPTB didn't foist him on Christina knowing that about him.  

Every season this comes up with one of the men on the show.  I have speculated on this with other men but I don't personally think Henry is on any spectrum.  My fancy grad. degree in Psychology and I don't think he's anything more than an introvert with pronounced social anxiety around women.  His job requires social skills plus he seems to have some pretty interesting friends so it looks to me like he suffers less anxiety with other people than with women.

On 8/14/2020 at 8:44 PM, Kira53 said:

Miles's ten monogamous relationships are not necessarily all serious relationships.  I think he was making the point that even if that relationship wasn't working out that he did not cheat. He didn't use conflict in the relationship as a reason to cheat. And I think this is the emphasis he is making on "10 monogamous relationships". His point was he had 10 relationships and he never cheated on any of the 10 women. I'm sure some of those relationships were long and some were not that long, he just wanted Karen to feel secure that he's not the cheating type.  I think it's fantastic for anyone to leave when they see the relationship is not going anywhere instead of cheat as a way of getting out of the relationship.  "You got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away, know when one to run."  Not just cards, especially relationships.

Actually, Miles called them "serious" relationships, not monogamous (not that they weren't, he just didn't refer to them that way).  So he obviously thought that he had a lot of short-lived relationships that were serious.  I don't know, that may mean the inverse of your point - that he called them serious to make the point that they were monogamous, so that Karen doesn't get the impression that he's the cheating type.  See what I did there?

On 8/14/2020 at 9:05 PM, Silver Bells said:

I think a few of them had sex already and are not sayin.  

I have had that feeling myself, esp. with Amani and Woody.  I don't think Amani wants to look like "that girl" that goes to bed with a guy that fast, especially when the other couples aren't admitting they've done it either.

On 8/14/2020 at 11:41 PM, ECM1231 said:

I caught a LOT of flak last season when I mentioned the same thing on another forum. People thought I was horrible for saying such a thing. 

Every time I think someone might be on the spectrum and voice that opinion here, I have had the same experience.

On 8/15/2020 at 5:41 AM, JapMo said:

The word "project" is perfect.  Christina was valiantly trying to break through Henry's reserve, get him to loosen up and bring out his personality.  Unfortunately, he's not just shy...he's clinically introverted (I just made that up, LOL).  I really watched him closely, and I saw a man who seems to dread almost all human interaction.  He can't maintain eye contact for any length of time.  He's suffering from crippling shyness, but there's more to it than that...unfortunately I'm not a psychiatrist so I can't diagnose.  I can, however, given an opinion, and I think Christina got screwed by the show.  Henry is not going to all of a sudden develop a sense of humor or become more adventurous .  It would be a miracle if he even got a small degree more comfortable with her.  He won't be coming out of his shell.  This is who he is, and Christina is sadly going to figure it out sooner rather than later.    

Even a psychiatrist wouldn't attempt to diagnose someone without enough observation, but we all are entitled to an opinion.  I've said it before but I think Henry's got a wicked case of social anxiety around women in a romantic context, but in other situations he's OK, like at work or with friends.  He is most definitely very introverted but that doesn't necessarily translate into social anxiety or aversion to people.  Those things are separate.  Introverts may socially isolate themselves but not because of anxiety around people, just because they prefer to be alone.  I think the show did one of their "opposites attract" matches with Christina and Henry.  Something Christina said made them think she wanted a Pygmalion project where she could coax a shy guy out of his shell and introduce him to all the wonderful experiences she's already had.  Unfortunately they took her too literally and gave her someone way too far over on that end of the scale.  I too worry that nothing she could do would do much to help him with that.  And would she even want to after a while if he doesn't improve?

 

[Yeah No]

16 hours ago, brilliantbreakfast said:

I would have SO been interested in him in my 20s.  The close relationship with his mother would have been a red flag for me, though.  I  AM Jewish and the mothers of most of the guys I was involved with were utter nightmares (as was mine, full disclosure), to the point where I decided I wanted someone just like my college boyfriend (who wasn't as quirky as Bennett, but quirky enough) only without a mother.  (I actually did end up meeting and marrying one and we were together 30 years before he died.)

The NOT having a mother is its own baggage. My husband had all kinds of conflicts (unresolved grief + rage) abut his mother's death when he was 12.  Bennett apparently feels he came close to losing his; he mentioned cancer.  These guys tend to have major abandonment fears, and marrying a doctor who may have to leave could come back and bite him.  He seems unafraid of dealing with and talking about feelings, though, and that may help.

My mother would have HATED Bennett, though.  On the Jewish Husband Mandatory Acceptable Profession Hierarchy of the 1970s-80s (consisting of, in order, Doctor, Lawyer, Dentist, CPA), "actor/musician/gardener/pedicab operator" isn't even on the list.  I was supposed to find someone who could support me in the style to which she wanted to be accustomed.  

I will say, though, that the quirky boyfriend can be a challenge as a husband unless you really, truly know that you are OK with being the main breadwinner. Mine eventually stumbled into a career but I'll be honest -- it was easier when he was in a dead end job being quirky.  Some people just don't do well when they decide to "grow up" and enter the hierarchical career world.

All that said, I LOVE Amelia and Bennett.  I find myself wishing I could BE them, perhaps because in some ways I WAS them. I hope they stay together.  Having similar quirky interests and worldview does keep you together even when things get tough.

I was in some ways Amelia and Bennett too, way back in those 1970s which is one reason I love them so much as I miss those days.  But you just illustrated why I didn't marry a Jewish guy.  They could love me to pieces but I wasn't Jewish enough for them.  I was raised an Episcopalian.  My HS sweetheart STILL acts like a lovesick asshole over me at reunions and on Facebook, but hey, it was HIS choice to attempt to finally win his mother's love by being the only sibling to marry a Jew (he had 3 other brothers one of which was his twin, oy).  Then of course he became a doctor (his twin became the lawyer, LOL).  And even though he's really just a run of the mill ER doctor, he was humble bragging to me today that he didn't even apply for financial aid for his son who is applying to college.  But he's quirky enough - that never stopped him from being determined to "make his mama proud" of his career achievements.  I think Bennett's mother is way more accepting of him, which may also be partly a generational thing.  Back in my day your parents had higher expectations of you and you felt compelled to live up to them to win their acceptance.  Bennett's mom is way more accepting of his choices despite their not being that lucrative.  She is definitely looking at him like a special snowflake that one must allow to be whatever he is.  That never would have been the case in the 1970s.  Different generation of parents.  Even my own Sicilian-American mother would have said, "Bennett is wonderful but how are you going to survive?"  LOL  Of course today that doesn't matter so much.  Even if the kid doesn't have a lucrative career the parents (if they have the means like in Bennett's case) will always be their safety net.  So they never really have to sink or swim.

[Ilovepie]

8 hours ago, DocTerv said:

I'm trying to imagine what Henry's interviews must have been like.

Producer: So Henry, you want to marry a stranger?

Henry: Silence. More silence. Yes.Yeah, no yeah.

Producer: Are there particular traits you are looking for in a wife?

Henry: Silence. More silence. Uncomfortable twitch. No. Um, I mean, yeah, no. 

And they came to the conclusion he'd be great TV? I find it painful to watch someone so incredibly uncomfortable in social situations.  

Fixed it for you. And agreed, he is painful to watch.

[Boo Boo]

10 hours ago, ShowFan said:

Not necessarily. Some people (more than you’d expect!) simply don’t like children and don’t want to have any ever. Speaking from personal experience. 

Totally agree with that.  Although if this is the case, Olivia needs to say sternly: "I do not want children" instead of leaving wiggle room.

[humbleopinion]

MAFS show runner:  We desperately need to cast a 5th couple...let's go through the reject pile once again...

Producer1: I have a tall, handsome guy with a charming NOLA accent, good job but getting him to talk past monosyllabic responses is like pulling hen's teeth..holding eye contact is also problematic.

Show runner: That's his downside?

Producer: It could get worse...he could freeze up...lots of dead air....staring at the floor...

Producer2: I have a match for Shy Guy...a flight attendant. She's used to dealing with all kinds of people in her job.

She's gives good TH, the camera loves her. She has a calm vibe. She is a scooch shorter so she can wear heels. She could fill in the dead air if need be.

Show runner: What's her downside?

Producer2: She wants a more dominate, take action type of guy. A man about town who is confident in himself.

Show runner: Well...beggers can't be choosers....sign them up...they look good as a couple...apply plenty of lipstick to make these piggies look good...I'm feeling the love already....

 

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by humbleopinion

[Boo Boo]

1 minute ago, humbleopinion said:

MAFS show runner:  We desperately need to cast a 5th couple...let's go through the reject pile once again...

Producer1: I have a tall, handsome guy with a charming NOLA accent, good job but getting him to talk past monosyllabic responses is like pulling hen's teeth..holding eye contact is also problematic.

Show runner: That's his downside?

Producer: It could get worse...he could freeze up...lots of dead air....staring at the floor...

Producer2: I have a match for Shy Guy...a flight attendant. She's used to dealing with all kinds of people in her job.

She's gives good TH, the camera loves her. She has a calm vibe. She is a scooch shorter so she can wear heels. She could fill in the dead air if need be.

Show runner: What's her downside? She wants a more dominate, take action type of guy.

Show runner: Well...beggers can't be choosers....sign them up...they look good as a couple...apply plenty of lipstick to make these piggies look good...I'm feeling the love already....

 

 

Does the camera really love her? I think she's not attractive! Otherwise I concur with all of this!

[humbleopinion]

8 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

Does the camera really love her? I think she's not attractive! Otherwise I concur with all of this!

Nope...she needs to learn that she gives herself a double chin when she pulls her chin in and her resting bitch face is a camera magnet.

She is attractive enough...her clothes accentuate her assets, she has good posture, she has a pretty enough face.

She's prettier than Kristen.

Edited August 17, 2020 by humbleopinion

[Empress1]

12 hours ago, Kira53 said:

Olivia said she "didn't see herself as a parent".  She didn't say she didn't like children.  In fact she said she liked her sisters children. I know I was single and I didn't see myself as a parent because I didn't see myself as a single parent.

There are people who like kids, are in good marriages/relationships, and still don’t want to be parents. My friend is one; she’s been married almost 10 years and told her husband (and everyone else she dated) early on that she doesn’t want kids. She has never wanted them.

Now, having said that, my friend has always been very firm in saying she doesn’t want kids - there was never any ambiguity about it, and she would stop seeing men who told her she’d change her mind (which is condescending as hell). Olivia seems like she genuinely does not want children but doesn’t want to come out and say so definitively (it’s still not fully socially acceptable for a woman to say; it wouldn’t surprise me if she’s gotten shit and/or condescension for it in the past) especially since Brett DOES want kids and she seems like the most “I just want to be married” person in the group. But I’m with @Boo Boo - if she doesn’t want kids, she needs to be firm about it. Better to rip off the Band-Aid. Being on different sides of the kid issue is a fundamental incompatibility.

[Ilovepie]

2 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

She's prettier than Kristen.

Hmmm, that's debatable. Kristin is conventionally pretty to me, but her bitchy drunk self is less so. Cristina is more exotic looking but the double chin is tragic! Also on the down side, her statuesque height is definitely a negative for Henry..........

[configdotsys]

On 8/14/2020 at 11:42 AM, Silver Bells said:

I think you are right about her.  The experts paired her with him for a reason.  She looks to be kind and patient.  If things work out for them, he probably would come out of his shell.  I feel very bad for him as he seems like a good guy.  She just may have found gold with him.  We never know.  He just might be a kind and loving husband and Father.

 

For me, I would consider it too late if I was blindsided with a project rather than a husband. I think it was very unfair of them to do that. i get that people are very different but this is something else entirely. Henry is who he is and if he has spent all this time hidden in a shell and tics up when stressed, these are not things that can be discussed away or fixed by a stranger. It seems to me that Christina will be in this vortex of trying to get him to do or be something forever. If he is prickly about bowling for example and she works on him for a while and he finally kinda sorta enjoys it, that doesn’t mean he now likes rock climbing or painting, she has to begin working on those things from scratch.

If Christina decides to throw in the towel, she may get backlash for being unwilling to try because Henry is such a nice guy.  That is so unfair to her. 

Still not trusting Woody at all. Heis the life of the party at all times and wants that feeling in perpetuity. Once things with Imani settle down and the newness wears off, he will want that high flying feeling again and move on. Aside from her voice, I like Imani and hope she does not get hurt. 

[Kira53]

20 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Actually, Miles called them "serious" relationships, not monogamous (not that they weren't, he just didn't refer to them that way).  So he obviously thought that he had a lot of short-lived relationships that were serious.  I don't know, that may mean the inverse of your point - that he called them serious to make the point that they were monogamous, so that Karen doesn't get the impression that he's the cheating type.  See what I did there?

I'm pretty sure he said they were monogamous. But that people on the forum interpreted that as serious and started saying Miles said he had serious relationships. I'm open to looking at the clips because I think they will use this clip again. It doesn't matter to me if he said serious.  He is still trying to make a point.I'm sure he also wants to point out that while Woody is his buddy, Miles didn't treat relationships the way Woody has in the past.

[Retired at last]

I also remember hearing 'monogamous'.

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, Retired at last said:

I also remember hearing 'monogamous'.

Which doesn't necessarily mean serious and/or long. It just means he was only dating one woman at a time. A few of those monogamous relationships could have been in high school and college.

[Jeanne222]

Henry is getting most of the chit chat on the board!  Maybe silence is golden!  Lol

Go Henry.

[zoltana]

On 8/13/2020 at 6:56 AM, Yeah No said:

He could have been vague about it or said it was "some time" after he applied for the show, he didn't have to give her the exact date, time, and honest blow by blow internet review.  I don't get the young generation's compulsion to be brutally honest about everything even at the expense of someone else's feelings, when one little gloss over that wouldn't matter a hill of beans in the big scheme of things would actually be the kinder, more humane thing to do.  It would show that he is concerned about her feelings and doesn't want her to think he's not fully invested in the marriage.  Plus it would show some awareness of how being brutally honest would look and feel to her.  Of course we know he does not have any of that concern, awareness or investment, so.....jackass.

His response left me feeling like he wanted to make sure the door to the other woman would still be open if things on the show didn't work out.

[TheMediumBopper]

Longtime lurker and first-time poster here... and what's drawn me out of my shell is, of all people, Henry. I feel compelled to weigh in on him, after reading lots of speculation and opining on what makes this dull boy tick.

Thing is, I don't think he's all that dull. What's so fascinating about him is his utter average-ness. Most people are so accustomed to seeing bigger personalities on reality shows that a quieter personality seems pathologically wrong. Ever since I knew Henry was good friends with Trashelle, who is a pretty famous party girl as far as reality TV party girls go, I've been wondering just how introverted and devoid of personality he really is when a camera isn't trained on him. When I watched the first episode back I saw that Henry, while soft-spoken, had plenty to say in his initial interviews; he wasn't fumbling for words. So what gives?

Honestly, I think he's just not feeling Christina. He's too nice to be rude about it, but he knew at once that she wasn't his type. At first I thought Christina was a bitch, but as the episodes go on, I notice that Christina speaks as though she thinks very highly of herself but often looks sad. I don't think she's a happy person. That unhappiness predated Henry and will continue long after Henry is gone (assuming that they don't make it, which is just a guess on my part). The only thing that these two have in common is that neither has the goods to sustain a relationship. Henry might have a chance if he could find a fellow homebody who is unassuming, dryly funny, and doesn't have too many expectations of a guy.

[gonecrackers]

10 hours ago, TheMediumBopper said:

Longtime lurker and first-time poster here... and what's drawn me out of my shell is, of all people, Henry. I feel compelled to weigh in on him, after reading lots of speculation and opining on what makes this dull boy tick.

Thing is, I don't think he's all that dull. What's so fascinating about him is his utter average-ness. Most people are so accustomed to seeing bigger personalities on reality shows that a quieter personality seems pathologically wrong. Ever since I knew Henry was good friends with Trashelle, who is a pretty famous party girl as far as reality TV party girls go, I've been wondering just how introverted and devoid of personality he really is when a camera isn't trained on him. When I watched the first episode back I saw that Henry, while soft-spoken, had plenty to say in his initial interviews; he wasn't fumbling for words. So what gives?

Honestly, I think he's just not feeling Christina. He's too nice to be rude about it, but he knew at once that she wasn't his type. At first I thought Christina was a bitch, but as the episodes go on, I notice that Christina speaks as though she thinks very highly of herself but often looks sad. I don't think she's a happy person. That unhappiness predated Henry and will continue long after Henry is gone (assuming that they don't make it, which is just a guess on my part). The only thing that these two have in common is that neither has the goods to sustain a relationship. Henry might have a chance if he could find a fellow homebody who is unassuming, dryly funny, and doesn't have too many expectations of a guy.

Leave it to an introvert to draw out a new poster 😉😄  Welcome - all good points & I agree.

I do wonder how good a friend he is to that "Trashelle", ?  though (I don't recall her real name).  I could see her being on the fringe of their group, or a friend of a friend of his & them sticking her at the wedding to get people talking about how Henry is "friends" with her, but maybe not so much.

20 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

Hmmm, that's debatable. Kristin is conventionally pretty to me, but her bitchy drunk self is less so. Cristina is more exotic looking but the double chin is tragic! Also on the down side, her statuesque height is definitely a negative for Henry..........

Christina has stellar posture.

[qtpye]

10 hours ago, zoltana said:

His response left me feeling like he wanted to make sure the door to the other woman would still be open if things on the show didn't work out.

I think that was exactly what he was aiming for when he communicated that bit of information to Olivia.

22 hours ago, Empress1 said:

There are people who like kids, are in good marriages/relationships, and still don’t want to be parents. My friend is one; she’s been married almost 10 years and told her husband (and everyone else she dated) early on that she doesn’t want kids. She has never wanted them.

Now, having said that, my friend has always been very firm in saying she doesn’t want kids - there was never any ambiguity about it, and she would stop seeing men who told her she’d change her mind (which is condescending as hell). Olivia seems like she genuinely does not want children but doesn’t want to come out and say so definitively (it’s still not fully socially acceptable for a woman to say; it wouldn’t surprise me if she’s gotten shit and/or condescension for it in the past) especially since Brett DOES want kids and she seems like the most “I just want to be married” person in the group. But I’m with @Boo Boo - if she doesn’t want kids, she needs to be firm about it. Better to rip off the Band-Aid. Being on different sides of the kid issue is a fundamental incompatibility.

I want to say that this is no way meant to insult any many in this forum...from what I can tell, the guys on here are pretty awesome.

It is annoying to me how women get so much grief for not wanting children. A man can joke about a family being a ball and chain or women trying to "trap" them into marriage but if a woman says the same thing, then she is the worst.

I think it is because it breaks through the illusion that we woman are just waiting around for nothing more then a guy to impregnate them and having children is their greatest life achievement. Some people in society desperately want to believe this.

Our ancestors had children for none selfless reasons. Children provided labor around the house/farm, helped them hunt, and cared for them in their old age. Most of this is no longer true or needed.

I have children and I love them dearly. However, my life has gotten much harder because of it, though it is a sacrifice most parents make happily. I respect any man or woman who intelligently opts out of a great responsibility that they do not want. This is better than people having children because of the pressures of society but then are shitty parents because they resent the very children they brought into this world.

I am not saying this was the opinion of the original poster, I just wanted to get my 2 cents in.

10 hours ago, TheMediumBopper said:

Longtime lurker and first-time poster here... and what's drawn me out of my shell is, of all people, Henry. I feel compelled to weigh in on him, after reading lots of speculation and opining on what makes this dull boy tick.

Thing is, I don't think he's all that dull. What's so fascinating about him is his utter average-ness. Most people are so accustomed to seeing bigger personalities on reality shows that a quieter personality seems pathologically wrong. Ever since I knew Henry was good friends with Trashelle, who is a pretty famous party girl as far as reality TV party girls go, I've been wondering just how introverted and devoid of personality he really is when a camera isn't trained on him. When I watched the first episode back I saw that Henry, while soft-spoken, had plenty to say in his initial interviews; he wasn't fumbling for words. So what gives?

Honestly, I think he's just not feeling Christina. He's too nice to be rude about it, but he knew at once that she wasn't his type. At first I thought Christina was a bitch, but as the episodes go on, I notice that Christina speaks as though she thinks very highly of herself but often looks sad. I don't think she's a happy person. That unhappiness predated Henry and will continue long after Henry is gone (assuming that they don't make it, which is just a guess on my part). The only thing that these two have in common is that neither has the goods to sustain a relationship. Henry might have a chance if he could find a fellow homebody who is unassuming, dryly funny, and doesn't have too many expectations of a guy.

Welcome to the board!🙂

I totally agree, Henry is probably pretty average. He is in a hella awkward position (mind you, of his own making) and just does not know how to deal with it. If he was into Christina, we would see him be a bit more willing to step out of his comfort zone.

[Ilovepie]

12 hours ago, TheMediumBopper said:

Thing is, I don't think he's all that dull.

Hello @TheMediumBopper! This is the show that made me finally turn from lurker to poster too! 😜

I have to disagree re: the dullness. I site his statement that the trampoline was the craziest thing he's ever done. What!?! I do not think all introverts are boring, but he really seems to be. And even if it's just the cameras and process that has made him crawl into his shell, that means he was never a good candidate for this show.

[humbleopinion]

Agree Henry is not attracted to Christina one itoa.

Anyone else getting Nick and Sonia vibes?

[TheMediumBopper]

5 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

Hello @TheMediumBopper! This is the show that made me finally turn from lurker to poster too! 😜

I have to disagree re: the dullness. I site his statement that the trampoline was the craziest thing he's ever done. What!?! I do not think all introverts are boring, but he really seems to be. And even if it's just the cameras and process that has made him crawl into his shell, that means he was never a good candidate for this show.

Oh, I totally agree that Henry is ill-suited to the show. In a perverse way, that's sort of what I'm enjoying about him. Apart from that, though, I do see glimpses of a self-deprecating humor here and there... kind of like a low-key (VERY low-key) version of his dad's humor. I also keep thinking about mismatched women from past seasons whom he might have fared better with than Christina. Maybe Amber? (Not the Willem Dafoe/Dallas blonde Amber, but the short little one who was paired with that basketball-playing asshole.) Or maybe Kate? Both of these women are less egotistical than Christina and are easily pleased. And Henry is a veritable prince among men compared to what either of them ended up with.

(For that matter, I also keep thinking of women from past seasons who would have been better suited to Miles. I wish Miles had someone with a little more life and playfulness in her than Karen. I don't spend much time thinking about Brett and Olivia because she's a pill and he's horrific and I don't care what becomes of them. The other two couples seem well matched and are A-okay with me. Not that anyone asked! 😉 )

Edited because Brett's name isn't Brent. Again, shows you how much I care about that douche nozzle.

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by TheMediumBopper

[Yeah No]

On 8/17/2020 at 8:18 PM, Kira53 said:

I'm pretty sure he said they were monogamous. But that people on the forum interpreted that as serious and started saying Miles said he had serious relationships. I'm open to looking at the clips because I think they will use this clip again. It doesn't matter to me if he said serious.  He is still trying to make a point.I'm sure he also wants to point out that while Woody is his buddy, Miles didn't treat relationships the way Woody has in the past.

Actually I watched the segment over again and it was Karen in her talking head that said he'd been in 10 serious relationships, so that's probably where I heard that.  At any rate, she obviously heard him say "monogamous" but interpreted that to mean "serious" so if giving her that impression was his intention, it worked.

On 8/17/2020 at 11:00 PM, Jeanne222 said:

Henry is getting most of the chit chat on the board!  Maybe silence is golden!  Lol

People tend to project whatever they want to see onto someone that isn't very open about themselves.  One of the downsides to being an introvert.  One pet peeve I have is when people assume that if someone isn't smiling and talking all the time they're either not happy or not nice (or are on "the spectrum").

On 8/18/2020 at 12:17 AM, TheMediumBopper said:

Longtime lurker and first-time poster here... and what's drawn me out of my shell is, of all people, Henry. I feel compelled to weigh in on him, after reading lots of speculation and opining on what makes this dull boy tick.

Thing is, I don't think he's all that dull. 

Welcome to the board!  🙂  I remember the old saying, "still waters run deep".  Again, people assume that if they don't see anything going on on the surface there's nothing going on underneath, when usually nothing could be further from the truth.

[Yeah No]

12 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

I have to disagree re: the dullness. I site his statement that the trampoline was the craziest thing he's ever done. What!?! I do not think all introverts are boring, but he really seems to be. And even if it's just the cameras and process that has made him crawl into his shell, that means he was never a good candidate for this show.

I think Henry is overly risk-avoidant and afraid of certain experiences but that doesn't necessarily make him dull, just dysfunctional.  He may be interesting but not in a healthy, positive way - more in a clinical case study kind of way, LOL.

I still think his biggest problem is with women, not with the show, friends or work.  He can't even make eye contact with Christina, but he's nowhere as bad with other people.  If he was that bad in every situation he'd be just as insufferably awkward in his talking heads and with the other guys, but he isn't that bad with them.  Sure, he is still a little shy and awkward, but nowhere near to the same degree.

Then too, I always factor in that the show often makes these people look worse than they really are.  It's glaringly obvious on "Couples Cam" that certain people are not as they were portrayed in their original season but are actually nicer/more easygoing/less dysfunctional, etc.

[Hangin Out]

On 8/13/2020 at 11:48 AM, Retired at last said:

am not getting Amani and Woody. They are both smitten and that is great. He seems to be fine with waiting for sex, especially since she seems to invite him to shower with her several times a day. That's what I don't get. To me, showering together is much more intimate than having sex. But, I guess at their age they aren't fighting gravity when they stand up! Her voice is still annoying to me, but I think they will be fine. He is somehow starting to appear to be the "father figure" to me, giving advice to Miles snd some of his other statements.. 

I’m not getting the showering thing at all.  Isn’t that a big tease?  To me it is.  Then she expects him to get nothing after that?  I do not believe they didn’t have sex after that unless they are showering with all their clothes on. 

[gonecrackers]

1 hour ago, Silver Bells said:

I’m not getting the showering thing at all.  Isn’t that a big tease?  To me it is.  Then she expects him to get nothing after that?  I do not believe they didn’t have sex after that unless they are showering with all their clothes on. 

I didn't get her deal with that either. Maybe she's watched Psycho too many times & married for shower company.

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, Silver Bells said:

I’m not getting the showering thing at all.  Isn’t that a big tease?  To me it is.  Then she expects him to get nothing after that?  I do not believe they didn’t have sex after that unless they are showering with all their clothes on. 

Yeah, me too, even if they're showering in underwear.  My theory is that she doesn't want to look to the public and her family like she rushed into sex with him.

[TheMediumBopper]

I agree that showering together can be more intimate than having sex. By the same token, showering together can also be damned unsexy. All that fumbling around with water getting in your eyes and trying to wash your butt in a way that the other person doesn't notice... meh. Um, not that I'd know anything about this personally...

Point being, I don't know that a shower would necessarily be a huge turn-on for a person, but I'm not a guy.

Also, if anyone needs to be showering together, it should be Bennett and Amelia. I love those kooky kids, but a little shower and some deodorant probably wouldn't hurt them any.

[Hangin Out]

33 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

I didn't get her deal with that either. Maybe she's watched Psycho too many times & married for shower company.

We tried it once when away without the kids.  It was a tub you have to climb in and there wasn’t enough room and laughed so much, we fell out.  I grabbed the curtain and everything fell down.  Never again.

[Hangin Out]

I heard in a movie once, a girl asked Harrison Ford what turns on a man when it comes to sex.  He replied “when the girl shows up” .. “we men are easy”.  That’s probably true.  They are always ready.

[Yeah No]

6 minutes ago, TheMediumBopper said:

I agree that showering together can be more intimate than having sex. By the same token, showering together can also be damned unsexy. All that fumbling around with water getting in your eyes and trying to wash your butt in a way that the other person doesn't notice... meh. Um, not that I'd know anything about this personally...

Point being, I don't know that a shower would necessarily be a huge turn-on for a person, but I'm not a guy.

I'm not a guy either but showering together has always been a turn on for me.  I think the newness factor combined with the fact that Woody and Amani are admittedly very turned on by each other to begin with puts it over the edge, like a match to strike paper.  And that's why I have a hard time believing they're not doing something more than that.  If showering turns them on that much it's hard to believe they're not continuing with more physical intimacy.

[Elizzikra]

31 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I'm not a guy either but showering together has always been a turn on for me.  I think the newness factor combined with the fact that Woody and Amani are admittedly very turned on by each other to begin with puts it over the edge, like a match to strike paper.  And that's why I have a hard time believing they're not doing something more than that.  If showering turns them on that much it's hard to believe they're not continuing with more physical intimacy.

I'd undoubtedly slip and fall and there's nothing sexy about the ER. But I'm older and clumsier than Woody and Amani, so I say go for it you two lovebirds!

[configdotsys]

I am sad for Christina getting matched with Henry and then feel guilty for feeling that way because he's not a bad guy and his issues are not of the douchebag variety. To say that Christina got "stuck" with him (which I have to say I feel) sounds insulting and wrong to say because he cannot help it if he has issues. But it's so difficult to watch her try and try and for him to have just no real response. To anything. There was a scene in which they were going to do something and she said something like "Aww," and leaned into him in a side hug. He had zero reaction to that. He did not notice it, feel it, appreciate it, nothing. He just does not seem capable of expressing emotion. I'm not a hugely emotional type but I would be unable to deal with that. I think I heard Christina say something like she is going to spend her life trying to get Henry to have fun or something. How sad I felt when she said that. She is not on a honeymoon. It's like she's been given a job. If she decides she's not interested in a job, she won't  have much fun. If she wants to try to get him to open up and have a great time, she has to spend every waking moment trying to "flip his switch" as Jasmine said in another context a couple seasons ago. It feels as though this marriage was expected to turn him into a completely different person than the one he is and that's just not going to happen. 

I'm gonna continue to wear the old and cranky hat here and say that this was such a boring episode to me. Look, I get they want to learn about their spouses but all these long conversations on camera are just boring as hell. Let's watch people jump in the water, splash around and have fun! yay! zzzzzz. 

I think there is zero going on between Olivia and Brett and won't be. My guess is that she's fully aware that he's not the least bit interested in her and she's embarrassed about that so she agreed to keep their "intimate lives" or whatever, private. There is zero chemistry there. He comes off to me as someone who is just as bad as Luke but has put together an image to put on teevee so he doesn't get the wrath that Luke got. 

Karen gets older looking with each week. She has not moved an inch from the "he's not my type" space and I don't think she will. 

Brett and Amelia continue to have fun and be their quirky selves, but the quirk does get a bit tiring.

Still on the "Woody's taking advantage of all the tee vee time" and their relationship will wither once it's no longer new. I cannot picture Woody giving up the party life and coming home every night to have dinner and watch television or whatever. He wants to be out there and seen and stuff. That's perfectly fine but once reality hits, I'm guessing Imani is going to want to settle down and not be out partying every night. Just not seeing Woody being okay with that. 

[bellenoire]

On 8/12/2020 at 10:10 PM, answerphone said:

Silly question:

Why do Woody and Miles wear a stocking cap to bed?

Protecting their hair, and Miles has waves, which need to be “wrapped” to be retained.