S01.E08: Shiv Part Two

[tessaray]

Air date: July 6, 2020 

Quote

After Courtney gets herself into trouble following an unexpected confrontation, Pat decides they need to come clean to Barbara; Cindy takes heat from her father after a plan to take matters into her own hands goes awry.

 

[CletusMusashi]

Hard not to think of Buffy while watching this. Apparently they've even got the same sewer system as Sunnydale.

I do like that Pat knows that it is problematic to keep all this a secret from Barbara. Did Pat watch Buffy? Does he remember how pissed off Joyce got at Giles? Or is he just being a normal person? Either way, I respect his concern, even though I suspect that the secret will be discovered by one person at a time, as usual, probably starting with the younger brother who will probably become some sort of a food-theme-based Green Lantern.

Cindy is a good, mean villain. I don't know how she's going to be sustainable long-term, knowing as much as she does about the protagonists, unless maybe Brainwave Junior gives her partial amnesia. But for now, I'm liking her.

[AnimeMania]

So Pat wrecked his car, was that the same one that could fly? Seems like a waste. He should have used one of his junkers from the auto shop and said that he would never let Courtney practice driving behind the wheel of his baby.

Cindy seems to have a crappy house considering that she gets chauffeured to school every day. I thought she would live in a house at least as nice as Brainwave's.

[UnknownK]

5 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

So Pat wrecked his car, was that the same one that could fly? Seems like a waste. He should have used one of his junkers from the auto shop and said that he would never let Courtney practice driving behind the wheel of his baby.

Cindy seems to have a crappy house considering that she gets chauffeured to school every day. I thought she would live in a house at least as nice as Brainwave's.

The car is not a transformer, he keeps the giant flying robot locked up.

 

Cindy has no father as far as the town knows and a mother who stays at home so how could they afford a mansion? 

Brainwave is a neurosurgeon so he has money.

 

[CletusMusashi]

I think most of Dr. Ito's housing budget went into his humungous evil basement mancave.

Poor guy even had to sell the insides of his books in order to pay for it.

Edited July 6, 2020 by CletusMusashi

[AnimeMania]

2 hours ago, UnknownK said:

8 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

So Pat wrecked his car, was that the same one that could fly? Seems like a waste. He should have used one of his junkers from the auto shop and said that he would never let Courtney practice driving behind the wheel of his baby.

Cindy seems to have a crappy house considering that she gets chauffeured to school every day. I thought she would live in a house at least as nice as Brainwave's.

The car is not a transformer, he keeps the giant flying robot locked up.

I thought Pat had a flying car in Episode 1.

[Starfish35]

5 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I thought Pat had a flying car in Episode 1.

He did.  The car flew in the first episode, when they were escaping from the big JSA/ISA fight.

[MissLucas]

I'm glad Cindy brought up the 'effectiveness' of Stargirl's costume LOL! 

Poor Pat had to sacrifice his beloved car for a cover-up job. He's of course right about keeping secrets from Barbara. I wonder if the show will have this play out differently than we expect. Maybe Barbara knows more than she lets on and won't be completely shocked when the truth comes out. The shocked/angry mother is a bit of tired trope so I'm hoping for something different.

Nice team-work by the junior JSA getting Beth out of Stepford mansion. Though I question the wisdom of sending the one character without superpowers into the suspected villain's lair. I was surprised by Stepford mom's move at Pat - apparently she's not completely broken LOL!

Courtney seems resistant to hard lessons. What made her think that she could take on Cindy fresh out of hospital? Henry and Dr Ito's minions saved her this time - last time it was mystery janitor. I know she's a teenager but I still wish she'd put her brain to some good use.

Man, Henry had a sucky day. Dealing with telepathic powers without knowing what's going on and then finding out that his 'girlfriend' was placed at his side to be his handler for some unknown villainous purpose. Boy needs a break which he won't get. At least we now know why Cindy broke him and Yolanda up. It wasn't just sheer mean-girl behavior, she had a plan orders and a plan. I wonder how long Dad will keep out of commission now.

Aww, Mike - bringing treats and real emotions. I think that was the first scene these two called each other brother and sister. Sweet. Courtney looked very different with her hair pulled back, younger and more vulnerable - good choice by the hair and make-up people.

 

 

 

[AnimeMania]

Since the Dragon King has video cameras all around his house, I wonder if everybody in school is going to receive a video of Yolanda taking her clothes off behind a bush while Rick is turned the other way telling her to "hurry up"?

 

[RobertDeSneero]

7 hours ago, MissLucas said:

What made her think that she could take on Cindy fresh out of hospital?

It wasn't that she thought she could take Cindy on, it's that she felt she had to in order to protect her friends.  Also, pain meds.

[MissLucas]

1 hour ago, RobertDeSneero said:

It wasn't that she thought she could take Cindy on, it's that she felt she had to in order to protect her friends.  Also, pain meds.

I'd put the pain meds first 😁 Rick and Yolanda were both not injured and two against one. It's not as if Courtney has that much more battle experience than these two. 

[Kromm]

How's that whole secret identity thing working out, Courtney?

[Kromm]

13 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I'm glad Cindy brought up the 'effectiveness' of Stargirl's costume LOL! 

Poor Pat had to sacrifice his beloved car for a cover-up job. He's of course right about keeping secrets from Barbara. I wonder if the show will have this play out differently than we expect. Maybe Barbara knows more than she lets on and won't be completely shocked when the truth comes out. The shocked/angry mother is a bit of tired trope so I'm hoping for something different.

This show successfully underminded a lot of tropes in it's early episodes.  Some of the middle ones,, not so much.  So it could go either way.

That said, I appreciated the bit with Evil Cindy toying with Courtney in her room.  That was the best piece of writing in this episode, even if you could argue it's leaning cliche.  I'd argue that the actual cliche is the "close call" and that was being underminded here.  We had the setup of a close call and the show blasted it to bits.  So this particular episode is one where they returned to the earlier formula of taking us to the edge of a cliche and heading another direction.

Then again, they still milked the "close call" cliche later on, with Pat under the sink.  So you get the cliche defied, but also the cliche executed, both in the same episode, I guess.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Kromm

[AimingforYoko]

1 hour ago, Kromm said:

Then again, they still milked the "close call" cliche later on, with Pat under the sink.

It was nice to see Bobbie is an actual person, not just a programmed drone.

They got me for a second, I almost thought Cindy was a moron.

[readster]

2 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

It was nice to see Bobbie is an actual person, not just a programmed drone.

They got me for a second, I almost thought Cindy was a moron.

The revelation that Henry has been used all this time was also gut wrenching. Separating both Cindy and Courtney during their fight. Now you know why they are called Brainwave. 

[Jenniferbug]

Do we know who Henry's mom was and what happened to her? 

Also not clear on who or what Bobbi is. 

I don't know how they're going to keep Cindy viable now that she's aware of Courtney's identity. 

[thuganomics85]

Damn, Pat wrecked his Buick in order to cover for Courtney.  And he even made himself look to be the "bad guy" in front of Barbara, by claiming he let Courtney drive it for the first time.  Dude is killing it as both a sidekick and a stepfather.  Hopefully the day will come when  Courtney will fully appreciate him.  Or, at the very least, listen to him once and a while.

Enjoyed the reversal over Cindy not knowing that Courtney was Stargirl, and was simply toying with her the entire time.  Because it really would have been ridiculous for her to not figure it out, considering everything she saw and heard.  I don't blame Courtney for still taking her on again after the threat to her friends and family, but she is clearly out of her league when it comes to taking on Cindy.  Lucky for her though, Dr. Ito seems to really be getting annoyed with how his daughter acts out and seems to be a bit more harsh with his methods of punishment.  And, considering that it was one of the only things to shut Cindy up, apparently "taking off his hood" means that everyone is in for a bad time!

Henry Jr.'s power not only has now advanced to the levitation level, but he a) finds out his dad is Brainwave, b) discovers Cindy was playing him this entire time, and c) Courtney is Stargirl.  Curious to see where this all goes, because it kinds of feels like he is being setup as a potential ally instead of a villain.  But I have to imagine he needs to really make some kind of amends towards Yolanda for any chance of redemption to happen.

Enjoyed the scenes with the rest of the JSA: especially Beth standing up to Rick, and him actually listening.  And then her successfully getting some info about Cindy (although, bailing out of the tunnel once she heard Solemon Grundy was totally an understandable move!)  And, of course, Pat interacting with her and the other two was hilarious.  I really hope we get more scenes of "Luke Wilson playing put-upon dad to a bunch of teenage superheroes" going forward! 

Looks like Jordan used the business trip with Barbara to also take out some bigwig, who is part of the company that killed his wife.  Icicle is all about the multi-tasking!

Hopefully Courtney won't keep hiding things from Barbara for too long, because years (and years) of television viewing has certainly taught me that hiding things from your loved ones or family tends to just make things worse, instead of coming out into the open sooner.

The scene with Courtney and Mike was nice.  The Mike character in general has been improving a lot these past episodes.

[Jediknight]

Turns out Pat does have a superpower, all the women want him.

Beth could join Team Flash as the newest member of a team full of the dumbest smart people.

[Lantern7]

Another episode, more questionable decisions. I'm good with that . . . and since the second season is going to air on The CW and unofficially join the Arrowverse*, it has to fit in with the other shows and their characters going behind the locked door. Or the secret passage. Honestly, Charles, how long have you known Beth? Why give her ideas?

Pat had better get something spectacular from Courtney for Christmas. Or Father's Day. I'm thinking we're in mid-November since Halloween was two episodes ago. The dude wrecked his damn car to cover for Courtney. Even if it turns out it's easy to repair, he'd still have to pretend to work on it. The bit where he was "teaching" Courtney to drive seemed extra. Couldn't there have been an "accident"? Apparently, that happens in Blue Valley quite often.

Quick question: was Cindy called "Shiv" at any point? It would be a weird villain name . . . she's the queen bitch of high school, she can probably kill a dude blindfolded, and she'd name herself after an improvised weapon often used in prisons. Oh, and her dad might be over a century old. Then again, Charles McNider might have lived an absurdly long life himself. I'll have to talk about that on the comic canon thread.

Nice to see the rest of the team follow in Courtney's dumbass steps. Beth infiltrates Casa Cindy with luck and Pat as a wingman. Rick wants to smash stuff up. Yolanda was okay, though the teaser looks like she's not quite ready to forgive Henry. Poor dumb alpha male asshole.

Is it weird I want more of the English Bulldog? He pops up too infrequently. I’d settle for him not having resting Cheeto face.

*I know, this show takes place in the new Earth-2, while the others are on Earth-Prime. I'm thinking a crossover is inevitable, and I hope this cover is adapted for promotion, with the "Super Friends" holding hands and the new JSA in the smoke.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Lantern7

[shapeshifter]

Why does Cindy have Cruella de Ville hair?

Wow, Young Brain Wave must win the prize for having the most embarrassing home movie collection of his growing up.

 

16 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I was surprised by Stepford mom's move at Pat - apparently she's not completely broken LOL!

Stepford Mom seems to be an animated blow-up doll. Is there a real person trapped inside?

 

Finally a Beth-centric episode.  

 

 

 

[mxc90]

Instead of apologizing to Courtney, seems Mike should have been more upset they left him at the the game to go home alone.

Did the googles lose power in the basement?

Last week, Ito knew Stargirl was in the tunnels and caught Cindy lurking but this week somehow didn't go grab Beth when she was down there? Beth conveniently made it to the top floor with no problem. The plot armor is thick on this one!

Where did Pat and the 3 drive off to (it was daytime when they left)? Stargirl attacked Cindy at night, so I guess they didn't feel the need to go back to Pat's house and update Stargirl on the day's events (Left Stargirl wondering and having to ask Cindy what happened to them). They probably went to a diner.

Edited July 8, 2020 by mxc90

[tennisgurl]

Cindy really has been super excited to start her super villain career hasn't she? Only a few days in and she is already giving her heroic nemesis "We’re not so different" speeches, which is right in the front of the bad guy handbook! Unfortunately her father is tired of her crap (although to be fair to Cindy, she actually didnt start this most recent fight) and grounded her, literally! 

So who, or what, is Cindy's step mom? There is apparently no information about her, but she isnt a full on stepford wife considering she was clearly getting her flirt on with Pat, so what is her deal? 

Henry Jr might not be the nicest kid, but I really do feel bad for him. Not only is his father in a coma, not only does he have new telekinetic powers coming in that he cant control and he doesent understand, but now he found out that his girlfriend is only dating him because his dad asked her dad to get her to monitor him. That is just a seriously shitty couple of days. It seems like he is being set up as maybe more of a possible ally to the JSA than an enemy, although if that does happen, he has a lot of apologizing to do to Yolanda. He does seem to really love his dad, as cold as he seemed towards him, and even when he knew that Cindy was only dating him on orders as part of some kind of plan, he seemed really concerned for her in the fight and when she was dragged into the gutter, so I dont know what will happen with him. 

Pat wrecked his car to cover for Courtney, now that is love! Courtney can be so smart, but still has a whole lot more to learn, jumping right into another fight with Cindy while she was still recovering. I get that she threatened to hurt her friends, but at least wait until you take the band-aids off! Even the staff was trying to tell her to stand down! The whole scene with Pat and the staff "talking" was such a great example of taking a really weird concept and making it really work in context, as Pat and the staff both admit to being afraid for Courtney, even knowing that Courtney gonna Courtney. 

The JSA did a pretty good job getting some info, and now they have an idea on who Dragon King actually is! They still have a long way to go though, they have to remember not to use real names while on mission! Rookie mistake! Poor Pat is now not just rangling one teen with super powered tech, but four. I like seeing Pat with the other JSA kids, he has such a great dad kind of vibe with all of them. 

Really liked the scene with Courtney and Mike, I think that this is the first time they have called each other siblings. That was really sweet, and I continue to really like the family dynamics going on with them all. So now Pat wants to tell Barbara, which, yeah thats a good idea, she should really know about this, but will it actually happen? I hope it does, because I have seen plenty of shows where people dont share really freaking important information with their friends and family, usually out of some misguided desire to "protect" them, and it always causes more problems than it actually solves and blows up in everyone's faces, but its such a staple of the genre, I dont know if they will break the cliche here. 

Icicle goes off on a business trip to get some work done AND murders a guy he holds responsible for his wife's death! You gotta multitask if you want to run a proper business as well as a supervillain group. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by tennisgurl

[DC Fan]

20 hours ago, MissLucas said:

He's of course right about keeping secrets from Barbara. I wonder if the show will have this play out differently than we expect. Maybe Barbara knows more than she lets on and won't be completely shocked when the truth comes out. The shocked/angry mother is a bit of tired trope so I'm hoping for something different.

Nice team-work by the junior JSA getting Beth out of Stepford mansion.

Several good points!  Barbara's gonna be furious with Pat & Court both, but I think Courtney is selling her short.  HOW she would take the staff away from her is a mystery to me, since it has a mind of its own, but that's not really the point.

COURTNEY WAS NEARLY KILLED!  When the people that pose a threat to her daughter (& the family; let's not forget how Brainwave forced a showdown by threatening Court's mom) are still at large, disarming her would make her a sitting duck!  Barbara's gonna FREAK when she learns that she escorted the girl who nearly killed her daughter to her room & left them alone together!  And that Courtney didn't dare object, fearing for her mom's safety.

Maybe it's dumb to bring it up, but... did Pat change Courtney's clothes before getting her to the hospital?  It's kind of a big deal; I'm surprised she didn't ask.  Surely he checked her in.  Yolanda and/or Beth could have been called, but wouldn't the kids have stuck around to see how she was doing?

[AnimeMania]

2 hours ago, DC Fan said:

So now Icicle can look at a door handle across the room, freezing it so cold that touching it causes frostbite!  Tossing an icicle would have been believable, but I'm not buying this.  We get it, he's bad.  Only a bad person would deliberately kill a kid, but don't paint him as godlike.

[SNIP]

Wouldn't it be a hoot if Barbara turns out to be undercover law enforcement (or even a hero) on Jordan's trail?  It would also be fun if she became the next Green Lantern, or maybe Flash.  I keep expecting Mike to pick up the pen in Courtney's room, only to find himself face to face with the Thunderbolt! 

You watched Icicle blow a cold wind from two miles away, outside, with the wind blowing, and a minute later, knock a playing card out of the hand of a little boy. But you find if hard to believe that Icicle can blow a cold wind ten feet, in an enclosed environment, and hit a metal doorknob?

I keep thinking that Barb is going to be attracted to the pink pen and Pat maybe Green Lantern since the Lantern already glowed for him once and Mike will choose something else, possibly sugary food related, like the "Pop Tart Kid". Then I will get my "The Thundermans" reboot.

[MarkHB]

10 hours ago, Jenniferbug said:

Also not clear on who or what Bobbi is. 

Well, one thing she is is horny, which isn't surprising as I doubt Dr. Ito whips his lizard out very often.

[CletusMusashi]

Unless maybe it's, like, an actual giant lizard that he feeds people to when he's angry.

[questionfear]

 

10 hours ago, mxc90 said:

Instead of apologizing to Courtney, seems Mike should have been more upset they left him at the the game to go home alone.

Did the googles lose power in the basement?

Last week, Ito knew Stargirl was in the tunnels and caught Cindy lurking but this week somehow didn't go grab Beth when she was down there? Beth conveniently made it to the top floor with no problem. The plot armor is thick on this one!

Where did Pat and the 3 drive off to (it was daytime when they left)? Stargirl attacked Cindy at night, so I guess they feel the need to go back to Pat's house and update Stargirl on the day's events (Left Stargirl wondering and having to ask Cindy what happened to them). They probably went to a diner.

That was my question too! Did they all just go off for celebratory milkshakes and forget to text Courtney "Oh, btw, all good we escaped, want a burger?"

[rmontro]

I love this show, but this was the first episode where I thought it started to creep a little into the cheesy category.  Cindy's line "I really like your staff, Stargirl" was both chilling and cringey at the same time.  The moment where Stargirl came flying through the window was pretty cool.

You'd think Dr. Ito, being a super genius and all, would be able to keep the garbage disposal running.  But I can understand why Cindy's mom would be reluctant to mention it to him.

[shapeshifter]

48 minutes ago, rmontro said:

You'd think Dr. Ito, being a super genius and all, would be able to keep the garbage disposal running.  But I can understand why Cindy's mom would be reluctant to mention it to him.

Maybe Bobbi sabotaged the disposal to get Pat into position?
Did I miss Bobbi and Pat having a conversation about a broken garbage disposal? It seemed like out of nowhere he was under the sink.

[AnimeMania]

30 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Maybe Bobbi sabotaged the disposal to get Pat into position?
Did I miss Bobbi and Pat having a conversation about a broken garbage disposal? It seemed like out of nowhere he was under the sink.

Beth was taking so long going to the bathroom that Pat had to make conversation to keep Bobbi from noticing.

Bobbi probably breaks the appliances every other day to a have a string of repairmen entering the house while Cindy is at school.

[rmontro]

53 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

Bobbi probably breaks the appliances every other day to a have a string of repairmen entering the house while Cindy is at school.

If that is true, what would Dr. Ito think about it?  The dude's got cameras all over the place.  Is he going to be okay with Bobbi engaging in such loose behavior while she's supposed to be acting as a surrogate mother for Cindy?

[AnimeMania]

35 minutes ago, rmontro said:

If that is true, what would Dr. Ito think about it?  The dude's got cameras all over the place.  Is he going to be okay with Bobbi engaging in such loose behavior while she's supposed to be acting as a surrogate mother for Cindy?

Cindy is at school and Dr. Ito is never around. Dr. Ito probably bought every house on the street so that there would be no reason for anybody to come in the neighborhood. His mole people have to live somewhere.

[Gimmick Genius]

Mr. Reilly from Firebrand Chemicals?  The Golden Age hero Firebrand was Rod Reilly - and after his death the name was taken on by his sister Danette. 

But wasn't there a line in an earlier episode that Firebrand was killed because of the ol' "using the hero's civilian name" mistake? 

[DC Fan]

16 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

You watched Icicle blow a cold wind from two miles away, outside, with the wind blowing, and a minute later, knock a playing card out of the hand of a little boy. But you find if hard to believe that Icicle can blow a cold wind ten feet, in an enclosed environment, and hit a metal doorknob?

I keep thinking that Barb is going to be attracted to the pink pen and Pat maybe Green Lantern since the Lantern already glowed for him once and Mike will choose something else, possibly sugary food related, like the "Pop Tart Kid". Then I will get my "The Thundermans" reboot.

You have a point.  Still, I only noticed him LOOK toward the door handle, not blow at it.  Wasn't the guy between Jordan & the door?  A breath would have hit him first.

[jdunlop]

On 7/8/2020 at 7:04 PM, Gimmick Genius said:

Mr. Reilly from Firebrand Chemicals?  The Golden Age hero Firebrand was Rod Reilly - and after his death the name was taken on by his sister Danette. 

But wasn't there a line in an earlier episode that Firebrand was killed because of the ol' "using the hero's civilian name" mistake? 

That was the Red Bee, I believe.  Don’t believe Firebrand was mentioned before.  (I missed the Easter egg of Reilly/Firebrand.  Glad I read this forum afterwards to see what I missed!)

[Gimmick Genius]

 

((But wasn't there a line in an earlier episode that Firebrand was killed because of the ol' "using the hero's civilian name" mistake? ))

I think you're right. That was The Red Bee. How could I mix them up? Must be the color scheme, the R. R. initials of their secret identities - and those see-thru shirts they wore!

[readster]

On 7/10/2020 at 5:51 AM, jdunlop said:

That was the Red Bee, I believe.  Don’t believe Firebrand was mentioned before.  (I missed the Easter egg of Reilly/Firebrand.  Glad I read this forum afterwards to see what I missed!)

Well and the Brand Company was where Rex Tyler first created the chemical to create his powers, but left to avoid them from using his inventions for misuse. Would also show that Icicle had more of a personal score with Rex thinking he was part of a company that lead to the death of his wife. 

[Trini]

I waited until several episodes were out so I could semi-binge this; so just some general comments about the series so far:

I liking it so far! I like just about all the characters, good and bad guys. Mike is annoying, but they writing him as 'Annoying Little Brother'; however, he has improved with that last scene with him and Courtney.

I like how they are slowly revealing information about the villains and their schemes; but I feel the show might rely too heavily on the audience being familiar with the comic characters. I know none of these people, and I know I'm missing the significance of a lot of easter eggs.

On one hand, it makes total sense that the teens are making stupid mistakes; but on the other, it's sometimes exasperating watching the teens make stupid mistakes. I'm still interested in their journey, though.

As for this episode: Wow - so many reveals! Kinda soon for so many bad guys knowing Courtney is Stargirl?

[readster]

16 hours ago, Trini said:

 

On one hand, it makes total sense that the teens are making stupid mistakes; but on the other, it's sometimes exasperating watching the teens make stupid mistakes. I'm still interested in their journey, though.

As for this episode: Wow - so many reveals! Kinda soon for so many bad guys knowing Courtney is Stargirl?

I find it funny that Pat knew who Dr. Ito was and then turns to Yolanda, Rick and Beth and goes: "I think you kids are bad luck." Well, sorry Pat that the Dragon King is the father of the girl who almost killed your step daughter.